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SueB

By SueB
in Supernatural

ohjoy
Message added by ohjoy

Please keep your speculation and comments on the end of Supernatural in the Supernatural Ending topic. Use this topic here or the Bitter Speculation topic for discussion of the upcoming season only. As always, keep Bitch vs. Jerk discussion in its own topic.

Thank you.

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PeterKahlke
PeterKahlke

NEXT ON SUPERNATURAL Sam and Dean search for the yellow-eyed thing that killed their mom.

devlin
devlin

I don’t care who JA is going to be playing. I could seriously watch this guy read the phone book and be completely enthralled. I am just looking forward to some powerhouse acting full of nuances by wh

gonzosgirrl
gonzosgirrl

So, so over it. You're a big boy - if you don't agree, put up or shut your judgey piehole.

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ahrtee

ahrtee

6 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

So the guest we were speculating on before is a 'he' (so, not Becky). Someone who is currently working on something else.

Frank?

Benny?

Yellow Eyes?

GORDON WALKER?!?!!!

Are we talking about the guest he mentioned in the article?  Because that one was put in at the last moment for an probably minor unknown character, and only appears for one scene.  So even if it is someone we love, we won't really get any significant moments here.  I think the one we were speculating on before (that has more impact) is someone else, and still may be Becky (ugh).  

From the article: 

"He was literally working one day, had the next day off, so he flew in, did one scene, flew out and was working on his other project the next day.”

BTW, did anyone notice Jensen's comment on his action scene:

“I took a concept in the beginning and really stretched it out to make it a bigger sequence,” he says, noting that showrunner Andrew Dabb always says, “The more action, the better,” which gave Ackles the greenlight. 

That says to me that he just assumed that Dabb would okay it (since he "always" wants more action) and didn't bother asking his opinion.  

SueB

SueB

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20 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

Are we talking about the guest he mentioned in the article?  Because that one was put in at the last moment for an probably minor unknown character, and only appears for one scene.  So even if it is someone we love, we won't really get any significant moments here.  I think the one we were speculating on before (that has more impact) is someone else, and still may be Becky (ugh).  

From the article: 

"He was literally working one day, had the next day off, so he flew in, did one scene, flew out and was working on his other project the next day.”

BTW, did anyone notice Jensen's comment on his action scene:

“I took a concept in the beginning and really stretched it out to make it a bigger sequence,” he says, noting that showrunner Andrew Dabb always says, “The more action, the better,” which gave Ackles the greenlight. 

That says to me that he just assumed that Dabb would okay it (since he "always" wants more action) and didn't bother asking his opinion.  

No.  Ackles took the concept, wrote a detailed note on his iPhone and shared it with Dabb.  Dabb said it sounded great but a would be a whole movie. However Dabb loved Jensen’s suggestions and wrote the teaser to tomorrow’s episode to be Jensen’s idea on a TV-scale. 

Bottom line:  He didn’t blow off Jensen.  He took Jensen’s detailed scene and put it into the script (shorter and within budget constraints).

I suspect this is may be contributing to their enthusiasm for pitching a episode to a Dabb since Jensen has had success once.

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gonzosgirrl

gonzosgirrl

(edited)
3 hours ago, ahrtee said:

Are we talking about the guest he mentioned in the article?  Because that one was put in at the last moment for an probably minor unknown character, and only appears for one scene.  So even if it is someone we love, we won't really get any significant moments here.  I think the one we were speculating on before (that has more impact) is someone else, and still may be Becky (ugh).  

From the article: 

"He was literally working one day, had the next day off, so he flew in, did one scene, flew out and was working on his other project the next day.”

BTW, did anyone notice Jensen's comment on his action scene:

“I took a concept in the beginning and really stretched it out to make it a bigger sequence,” he says, noting that showrunner Andrew Dabb always says, “The more action, the better,” which gave Ackles the greenlight. 

That says to me that he just assumed that Dabb would okay it (since he "always" wants more action) and didn't bother asking his opinion.  

Yeah, I know it wasn't the bigger super-sekrit return, just saying whoever it is, it isn't Becky.

I'd love it to be Cain or Frank.

Edited by gonzosgirrl
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ILoveReading

ILoveReading

13 hours ago, ahrtee said:

o even if it is someone we love, we won't really get any significant moments here.  I think the one we were speculating on before (that has more impact) is someone else, and still may be Becky (ugh).  

I don't think its Becky because Jensen specifically says "he",  Plus he described the character as one of his favorite characters ever.  I don't see Becky fitting that description.

I think Becky is in episode 6.  Because the description says the come across an old friend.

Bobcatkitten

Bobcatkitten

2 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

Reading Jensen's interview again, the opening action sequence is Dean duking it out with a few guys in the bunker.

Given the sneak peek this doesn't happen in our world. No way. So this will be Sam having a nightmare or vision of another world and it will be the glimpse of bearded Dean from the shaving/ punting clip.

Oh, I think you are right. Sam visions. Makes sense. 

Also I can think of a ton of characters I would love to see return but Frank isn't even in the top 10. Also if they are coming back for literally one scene then I don't much care. This is the quality over quantity thing for me. I don't want a parade. I want meaningful storyline. 

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gonzosgirrl

gonzosgirrl

2 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

Reading Jensen's interview again, the opening action sequence is Dean duking it out with a few guys in the bunker.

Given the sneak peek this doesn't happen in our world. No way. So this will be Sam having a nightmare or vision of another world and it will be the glimpse of bearded Dean from the shaving/ punting clip.

I remember being confused about "Dean" still having Jensen's hiatus beard in the first episode filmed (this one) when we knew he didn't have it in the first episodes to be aired. Now it makes sense.

Bobcatkitten

Bobcatkitten

1 minute ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I remember being confused about "Dean" still having Jensen's hiatus beard in the first episode filmed (this one) when we knew he didn't have it in the first episodes to be aired. Now it makes sense.

Yeah if you look at the shaving video he is wearing the same shirt as in the scene. Which explains why he had makeup on before he shaved. 

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gonzosgirrl

gonzosgirrl

10 minutes ago, Bobcatkitten said:

Also I can think of a ton of characters I would love to see return but Frank isn't even in the top 10. Also if they are coming back for literally one scene then I don't much care. This is the quality over quantity thing for me. I don't want a parade. I want meaningful storyline. 

This seems more like a cameo though - it wasn't even supposed to be this person originally (according to the interview). So if it's a nod to the past, then I'm cool with it. Much more so than intentionally bringing a character back just to kill them off.

SueB

SueB

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(edited)

It’s a non-speaking (or a couple of words) part of a ‘Brothers in Arms’ action sequence. It was supposed to be Brianna. but she was in Europe on tour when Jensen called and couldn’t make it back In time.  It’s a hunter-type.

I suspect some who lived past S4. I’m guessing Rufus.  
ETA: yes, Aaron Bass is a good guess.  

Edited by SueB
catrox14

catrox14

32 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I remember being confused about "Dean" still having Jensen's hiatus beard in the first episode filmed (this one) when we knew he didn't have it in the first episodes to be aired. Now it makes sense.

I know this is completely out of left field, but could the favorite be Endverse!Dean and Jensen is just be Goofy and cagy about it? Like maybe it's Endverse!Dean in the bunker and he fights Lucifer!Sam and his minions? I know it's unlikely but I hope im right and Jensen is just being a goober. Lol

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gonzosgirrl

gonzosgirrl

13 minutes ago, SueB said:

It’s a non-speaking (or a couple of words) part of a ‘Brothers in Arms’ action sequence. It was supposed to be Brianna. but she was in Europe on tour when Jensen called and couldn’t make it back In time.  It’s a hunter-type.

I suspect some who lived past S4. I’m guessing Rufus.

Was the bolded info in the article?

Rufus seems like a good possibility.

Aeryn13

Aeryn13

1 minute ago, gonzosgirrl said:

So they have directly spoiled that the MOTW is a vampire (this account, oy). Does that make Benny or Gordon more, or, less likely to be the cameo? Heh.

I expect some cringe moments with the cheerleader thing. Perez and all.

Gordon would be cool but I'm not sure they could get Sterling K. Brown at this point, for a cameo no less. Unless he is really good friends with Jensen like JDM. Benny would rock also.

Myrelle

Myrelle

Just now, Aeryn13 said:

I expect some cringe moments with the cheerleader thing. Perez and all.

Gordon would be cool but I'm not sure they could get Sterling K. Brown at this point, for a cameo no less. Unless he is really good friends with Jensen like JDM. Benny would rock also.

Yeah, pretty much this for me too.

And IA with whoever said that the sneak peek dampened the excitement that Jensen's interviews about this one first elicited. And now this promo has done the same and some more for me. 

But we can't really expect better from Perez where it concerns Dean, can we?

Hopefully Jensen's direction can help this one and yes, *fingers crossed* that these are the worst scenes of the episode. 🤞

Oh, and I REALLY hope it's Benny and that they're fighting together in what's obviously an AU. I'll take that any day.

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

27 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

Yeah, pretty much this for me too.

And IA with whoever said that the sneak peek dampened the excitement that Jensen's interviews about this one first elicited. And now this promo has done the same and some more for me. 

But we can't really expect better from Perez where it concerns Dean, can we?

Hopefully Jensen's direction can help this one and yes, *fingers crossed* that these are the worst scenes of the episode. 🤞

Oh, and I REALLY hope it's Benny and that they're fighting together in what's obviously an AU. I'll take that any day.

Is there another promo clip? Or did you mean the normal promo?

gonzosgirrl

gonzosgirrl

52 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

I expect some cringe moments with the cheerleader thing. Perez and all.

Gordon would be cool but I'm not sure they could get Sterling K. Brown at this point, for a cameo no less. Unless he is really good friends with Jensen like JDM. Benny would rock also.

Back when the news of the series ending broke and there was a lot of publicity, I remember Sterling saying how much he enjoyed his work on the show and that he'd love to do something. Maybe??? That would be a real 'get' at this point, but I'm not sure they would be able to resist spoiling the shit out of that with promotion. Benny seems like a safer bet - Ty isn't exactly a household name, so no percentage in promoting that.

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Jonesy

Jonesy

18 hours ago, Smad said:

The final scene will probably be Cas and Jack lounging in chairs in the paradise they created, slapping each other on the back and talking about their awesomeness. Because they made paradise happen. Cut to the Winchesters who are rotting in damnation because they have never made the world a better place.

Obviously your jokey scenario won't happen--Cas is likely dead and the boys get a version of peace.  IMO the boys victory will connect with Carry on Wayward Son--"Carry on my wayward son, for there will be peace when you are done, Lay your weary head to rest, don't you cry no more."

IMO the boys will be the main cause of their victory, Cas dies helping them then the boys lay their weary heads to rest--done with hunting and monsters which I expect will end up no longer being a problem for humans

That my prediction on record--will see if it's wrong or right.

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gonzosgirrl

gonzosgirrl

If whoever edited the marionette fight didn't get a hold of any part of this episode, it seems like the opening sequence is going to be epic!

Quote

"It was like four hours of stunt work with those guys, trying to get all that stuff done because we shot the whole thing – I know there's a cut in there and I think that was for timing purposes, but in my cut, the whole thing is a one-er. It's one shot. And we shot it off-speed, so we were able to ramp up and slow down," Ackles told IGN, before revealing the famous films he took a little inspiration from.

https://ca.ign.com/articles/2019/11/07/jensen-ackles-batman-supernatural-directed-season-15-episode-4-john-wick

And from Rob Hayter

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AwesomO4000

AwesomO4000

5 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

I expect some cringe moments with the cheerleader thing. Perez and all.

Wat a moment, is this somehow a reference to the scenario that Gadreel put Sam in in his head when he had Sam believing he was hunting when he wasn't (because in reality Gadreel was walking around in Sam's body)? I seem to remember that cheerleaders had something to do with that scenario also. I don't remember if it was vampires though. Maybe ghouls?

Is this a hint that the cheerleader eating vampire isn't a real thing but an illusion or fake scenario somehow?

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juppschmitz

juppschmitz

11 hours ago, AwesomO4000 said:

Wat a moment, is this somehow a reference to the scenario that Gadreel put Sam in in his head when he had Sam believing he was hunting when he wasn't (because in reality Gadreel was walking around in Sam's body)? I seem to remember that cheerleaders had something to do with that scenario also. I don't remember if it was vampires though. Maybe ghouls?

Is this a hint that the cheerleader eating vampire isn't a real thing but an illusion or fake scenario somehow?

But Gadreel was also only one of the many fabrications that Chuck created in order to have fun with the Winchesters.

Nothing, past, future or present has any meaning on this show anymore.

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Casseiopeia

Casseiopeia

This is just speculation and I don't know if this has already been mentioned but I remember reading that Sam starts to realize where the visions are coming from and he seeks out someone "unexpected".  I think that Sam is dreamwalking so the unexpected someone would have to be Kaia. She is a dangling plot line that I'm not all that anxious to revisit but it would make sense.

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Castiels Cat

Castiels Cat

11 hours ago, Casseiopeia said:

This is just speculation and I don't know if this has already been mentioned but I remember reading that Sam starts to realize where the visions are coming from and he seeks out someone "unexpected".  I think that Sam is dreamwalking so the unexpected someone would have to be Kaia. She is a dangling plot line that I'm not all that anxious to revisit but it would make sense.

IDK. That vision was Sam's visions, the Boy King leading the Demon Army and The End rolled into one. It seemed all like a very Winchester Apocalypse to me... old school.

I think Chuck has just undone what Dean did to save Sam and what TFW did. It will not be identical to season 5 but that is where we are heading. It's why Chuck looked for Becky. It's why he's writing again about the Winchesters. And Billie's dire prediction is pretty much what Michael had planned for the Apocalypse once he had his OTV.

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Casseiopeia

Casseiopeia

12 hours ago, Castiels Cat said:

IDK. That vision was Sam's visions, the Boy King leading the Demon Army and The End rolled into one. It seemed all like a very Winchester Apocalypse to me... old school.

I think Chuck has just undone what Dean did to save Sam and what TFW did. It will not be identical to season 5 but that is where we are heading. It's why Chuck looked for Becky. It's why he's writing again about the Winchesters. And Billie's dire prediction is pretty much what Michael had planned for the Apocalypse once he had his OTV.

Maybe but why would he care if Benny was a vampire or not?

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Castiels Cat

Castiels Cat

6 hours ago, Casseiopeia said:

Maybe but why would he care if Benny was a vampire or not?

Notice Dean called Benny "brother". . . Always a sticking point.  There needs to be something to get Sam to go dark and that something revolves around Dean. Ruby used his little brother shoulder chip. . . Telling him that in fact he was the bigger, better stronger brother and that the Angel's were wrong because Sam was THE ONE.

Maybe this time they will use the fact Dean always has his bromance angle whether it is Cas, Benny, Crowley or Ketch or whomever Christian Kane plays. .  . Dean always plays well and hunts well with others. The entire action sequence showed that. In retrospect the entire sequence screamed Benny from the get-go.

But perhaps Sam's jealousy of Dean's friends is how his Darkness gets triggered this time rather than his jealousy of Dean.

I hope it means Dean resurrects Benny. He is trigger numerous uno.

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Casseiopeia

Casseiopeia

2 hours ago, Castiels Cat said:

Notice Dean called Benny "brother". . . Always a sticking point.  There needs to be something to get Sam to go dark and that something revolves around Dean. Ruby used his little brother shoulder chip. . . Telling him that in fact he was the bigger, better stronger brother and that the Angel's were wrong because Sam was THE ONE.

Maybe this time they will use the fact Dean always has his bromance angle whether it is Cas, Benny, Crowley or Ketch or whomever Christian Kane plays. .  . Dean always plays well and hunts well with others. The entire action sequence showed that. In retrospect the entire sequence screamed Benny from the get-go.

But perhaps Sam's jealousy of Dean's friends is how his Darkness gets triggered this time rather than his jealousy of Dean.

I hope it means Dean resurrects Benny. He is trigger numerous uno.

From what I understand they only had Ty for that one scene. And the brothers have moved way past any disagreements about who is the better brother. I would hate for the last season to be about petty jealousies of AU people. I know Dabb likes to deconstruct past storylines but I can't see Jensen and Jared being on board with retelling S4-5.

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Jonesy

Jonesy

(edited)

Misha still on his book interview tour--so we get his present take on where the show is going.  Trying to understand where Cas will end up is difficult to discern.  His previous interview led me to believe Cas ends up dying BUT this last interview from HOLLYWOODHILLS.COM makes me think maybe NOT:

"Cas has been adrift in a sense, " Misha continued.   "He's been without a home or without a family for a long time.  He started the show in season 4 as like a warrior for Heaven.  He came down to Earth and he pulled Dean out of Hell.  Over time, he became closer to the brothers and drifted apart from Heaven.  The closest facsimilie that he has to family are those two humans.  He doesn't have a community in the angels and he really doesn't have a place on Earth.  He's really alone.  I hope that Cas finally feels like he finally has a place and has a community and has a family at some point before the show ends."

So maybe the end for Cas is totally being a family with the boys and MAYBE he won't need to die for it--I HOPE!

Misha also added Cas and the audience will find out in episode 9(as we heard elsewhere) why Dean has been so upset and that therefore it will take a while before Dean/Cas tension is resolved.  

Misha also mentions Cas will be on his own for a while until the threat from Chuck reunites him with the boys.

Edited by Jakes
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Castiels Cat

Castiels Cat

On 11/9/2019 at 7:08 PM, Casseiopeia said:

From what I understand they only had Ty for that one scene. And the brothers have moved way past any disagreements about who is the better brother. I would hate for the last season to be about petty jealousies of AU people. I know Dabb likes to deconstruct past storylines but I can't see Jensen and Jared being on board with retelling S4-5.

How do you interpret Sam's vision. As just a dream...

The red face was also seen when Cas touched the shoulder wound. Something is happening to Sam because he shot Chuck and it is a dark energy.

Michael will be out 

Demons got out. I suppose the horn called some back but it wasn't blown for very long...

It's looking like a retooled version of season 5 to me. Sam may not need Lucifer with God Juice. There is no heavenly host. Dean may not be able to save Sam because it's not a matter of locking him in a panic room and killing Lilith or Ruby. 

And Michael means Billie's prophecy is still in play for better or worse... although given everything that's happened his fate could be altered again because a lot has changed on a cosmic level that was unforeseeable previously.

On 11/11/2019 at 10:47 PM, Myrelle said:

It's just going to be S5.

Yes.

Casseiopeia

Casseiopeia

9 hours ago, Castiels Cat said:

How do you interpret Sam's vision. As just a dream...

The red face was also seen when Cas touched the shoulder wound. Something is happening to Sam because he shot Chuck and it is a dark energy.

Michael will be out 

Demons got out. I suppose the horn called some back but it wasn't blown for very long...

It's looking like a retooled version of season 5 to me. Sam may not need Lucifer with God Juice. There is no heavenly host. Dean may not be able to save Sam because it's not a matter of locking him in a panic room and killing Lilith or Ruby. 

And Michael means Billie's prophecy is still in play for better or worse... although given everything that's happened his fate could be altered again because a lot has changed on a cosmic level that was unforeseeable previously.

Yes.

Well because of "reasons" I believe that Sam is Dream Walking between universes.  There was no indication (at least so far) that the energy Castiel felt was "dark" energy. He just said it was the most powerful force he had ever felt. I'm guessing because it was a link to Chuck who atm is acting like a psychotic sociopath but I don't know if it's evil or just poorly written.

I'm not seeing how Michael would be back in play unless it's in another world. He was pretty much killed off in Winchester-land. And why would Dean want to be possessed again? For any reason. It didn't work out very well the last time.

I have a feeling that Jack  who has vanquished Michael and Lucifer (who was on the verge of reinhabiting Nick) will swoop in and save the Winchesters from Chuck. 

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Castiels Cat

Castiels Cat

1 hour ago, Casseiopeia said:

Well because of "reasons" I believe that Sam is Dream Walking between universes.  There was no indication (at least so far) that the energy Castiel felt was "dark" energy. He just said it was the most powerful force he had ever felt. I'm guessing because it was a link to Chuck who atm is acting like a psychotic sociopath but I don't know if it's evil or just poorly written.

I'm not seeing how Michael would be back in play unless it's in another world. He was pretty much killed off in Winchester-land. And why would Dean want to be possessed again? For any reason. It didn't work out very well the last time.

I have a feeling that Jack  who has vanquished Michael and Lucifer (who was on the verge of reinhabiting Nick) will swoop in and save the Winchesters from Chuck. 

Cas' reaction told us it wasn't good and he wanted to tell Dean however Dean would not talk to him in a decent car scene. The not talking was punctuated by not Crowley.

The Cage with Michael was blasted open. The last time not Ctiwkey was there he was sitting. He is probably out by now. AU Michael left an open door in Dean as we saw in The Spear. He may not get a choice with any Michael anymore. Or he may just sit it out again. As I said in my most recent post, there have been plenty of cosmic level events to rewrite that fate possibly.

Jack died and is no longer a nephilim. Okay for sure he is coming back but that doesn't mean he is going to do everything again. They did it last year because???? One supposed if one is generous they had to clean up all storylines for a final season. However I heard that Eugenie was really in charge and she cannot remember the plot and therefore she just writes it as she goes.

Castiels Cat

Castiels Cat

10 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

I think this will also be where the shot of Dean with the MOC comes from, an alterna universe. Guess Sam sees glimpses of them killing each other from AUs now. Which is probably Chuck's ending on some level and therefore will not happen.

Dean getting the MoC again could be a possibility. He could be Chuck's key and fight Super Sam.

Is alternate universes like s 13 a real spoiler? That's so dumb to do in the last season. It was only important because of saving Mary and Dean's arc WHICH THEY SUMMARILY DROPPED! If Michael goes back to get Angel's that's one thing... but a bunch of alternative universes rather than Supernatural is just dumb.

So then that was a vision of an alternate universe and our Sam and Dean just continue to do dumb stuff? Why did alternate Sam have the Sam red face that Cas saw?

Gah.

18 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

I think this is the ep we seen with Dean having his face cut.  There is that scene in the SPPT video with Dean tied to a chair.  Maybe Sam goes home with another version of Dean.

Why are there 2 versions of Dean?

ohjoy
Message added by ohjoy

Please keep your speculation and comments on the end of Supernatural in the Supernatural Ending topic. Use this topic here or the Bitter Speculation topic for discussion of the upcoming season only. As always, keep Bitch vs. Jerk discussion in its own topic.

Thank you.

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