Spoilers With Speculation

[Casseiopeia]

There are a few spoilers in Jensens panel

[gonzosgirrl]

1st question: Is Dean going to have a story line this year?

I don't know who asked that, but I would like to buy them a drink!

Short answer: No

Episode 10: funny episode, had the crew in stitches.

Edited November 3, 2019 by gonzosgirrl

[SueB]

20 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

1st question: Is Dean going to have a story line this year?

I don't know who asked that, but I would like to buy them a drink!

Short answer: No

Episode 10: funny episode, had the crew in stitches.

"Short answer: No"

Not what he said.  He said the brothers are linked together, not having separate stories.

DM if you want con data. 

Edited November 4, 2019 by SueB
Don’t want to be a source of consternation.

[Casseiopeia]

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, SueB said:

"Short answer: No"

Not what he said.  He said the brothers are linked together, not having separate stories.

I'm not sure how this doesn't mean 'no'. He was asked if Dean had a specific story line and he said no, the brothers stories are linked together. You can interpret it as you like (as can I) bu that doesn't leave a lot of room for interpretation, IMO. Of course you may have more info as a M&G participant, as you have teased, but he said what he said on the public panel.

Edited November 4, 2019 by gonzosgirrl

[Diane]

On 10/29/2019 at 8:09 PM, SueB said:

We know Jody is in this ep (ep9) based on BTS set photos.  Now ‘Werewolves of London’.  Werewolf story?  But EP9 is likely mid-season finale so MOTW makes no sense, unless it starts out that way and takes a turn.  
 

RSJ also cancelled this week due to filming commitments.   He’s either directing 9 or 10 then.  
 

No indication of adjusted schedule due to this weekend’s drama.  No indication it hasn’t been adjusted either.  Just, no indications either way.  

I thought he was directing a different show, but I could certainly be wrong?

[Aeryn13]

55 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I'm not sure how this doesn't mean 'no'. He was asked if Dean had a specific story line and he said no, the brothers stories are linked together. You can interpret it as you like (as can I) bu that doesn't leave a lot of room for interpretation, IMO. Of course you may have more info as a M&G participant, as you have teased, but he said what he said on the public panel.

It's also not true that the brothers are linked in the story because only Sam is linked to God, not both of them. So Jensen was being diplomatic but factually incorrect.

[SueB]

59 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I'm not sure how this doesn't mean 'no'. He was asked if Dean had a specific story line and he said no, the brothers stories are linked together. You can interpret it as you like (as can I) bu that doesn't leave a lot of room for interpretation, IMO. Of course you may have more info as a M&G participant, as you have teased, but he said what he said on the public panel.

I believe his answer was that he and Sam have a JOINT storyline.  Not that he has NO storyline.  Just that it’s not independent of Sam.  

3 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

It's also not true that the brothers are linked in the story because only Sam is linked to God, not both of them. So Jensen was being diplomatic but factually incorrect.

Just because Sam has the physical connection doesn’t mean it’s a ‘Sam-only’ story.  It doesn’t have to be a ‘what’s wrong with Sammy’ mystery.  
 

The show is ending, the main storyline may have several different facets but a joint, single, story about the Winchester’s vs Chuck.  

[desiresrisked]

9 hours ago, SueB said:

Well, I'm surprised he let the cat out of the bag in the Main Panel on Dean praying to Cas in EP9 and we learn WHY Dean had the reaction he had at the end of EP3.  Any speculation on-line beyond that has been pretty much off-target (those speculations that he's only using Cas or that there's any meanness in their relationship).  Dean and Cas will be fine based on what was said out of the panel but I don't know when and I don't know how it will play out.  But it's an important part of Dean's story (where his head is at and why).  Jensen told more in the M&G, I practically cried as he told the story.  It's gonna been good.

So I’m assuming by the way you phrased this that it’s something surprising about Dean and not the usual ‘he feels guilty about Mary and was projecting’ thing? And since you keep emphasizing that Cas is important to Dean, I’m taking it from your tease that the writers/Dabb are having Dean confess he’s in love with Castiel and his new feelings about his sexuality scared him so he lashed out. Maybe the writers want to prove how progressive they can be (though is it really progressive if a lot of shows have a main gay/bi character, maybe feels like that to them because this is a character that started in 2005) despite Jensen saying for years that he doesn’t play Dean that way (and this is why he has so much trouble with the ending). You’re surprised he let the cat out of the bag because it’s such a big shock and changes everything and you figured he’d want to surprise the shippers. They make the confession so early w/half a season left  because they need the general audience to get used to this. Solved it.

[SueB]

2 hours ago, desiresrisked said:

So I’m assuming by the way you phrased this that it’s something surprising about Dean and not the usual ‘he feels guilty about Mary and was projecting’ thing? And since you keep emphasizing that Cas is important to Dean, I’m taking it from your tease that the writers/Dabb are having Dean confess he’s in love with Castiel and his new feelings about his sexuality scared him so he lashed out. Maybe the writers want to prove how progressive they can be (though is it really progressive if a lot of shows have a main gay/bi character, maybe feels like that to them because this is a character that started in 2005) despite Jensen saying for years that he doesn’t play Dean that way (and this is why he has so much trouble with the ending). You’re surprised he let the cat out of the bag because it’s such a big shock and changes everything and you figured he’d want to surprise the shippers. They make the confession so early w/half a season left  because they need the general audience to get used to this. Solved it.

Not remotely.  No Destiel or Wincest.  Just that Dean praying to Cas is about Dean dealing with his own anger/grief, not groveling.  
 

Having said that,  it’s entirely possible that if Dean were to say something to Cas like ‘glad your back’ some would take that as groveling.  In which case I would disagree.  

But it appears my comments have caused consternation.  Not my intention.   There’s a solution for that.  

Edited November 4, 2019 by SueB

[Whimsy]

Some posts have been moved to the media thread.  Jared's arrest is not a spoiler, and therefore is off-topic for this thread. 

[Bobcatkitten]

53 minutes ago, SueB said:

Not remotely.  No Destiel or Wincest.  Just that Dean praying to Cas is about Dean dealing with his own anger/grief, not groveling.  
 

Having said that,  it’s entirely possible that if Dean were to say something to Cas like ‘glad your back’ some would take that as groveling.  In which case I would disagree.  

But it appears my comments have caused consternation.  Not my intention.   There’s a solution for that.  

Bound to happen when you are teasing about information you have but won't tell us. 

[SueB]

49 minutes ago, Bobcatkitten said:

Bound to happen when you are teasing about information you have but won't tell us. 

I was trying to be helpful but not get thrown out of future VIPs or M&Gs.  Didn’t mean to tease.  But I’ve removed all my comments to avoid that trouble. 

[gonzosgirrl]

11 hours ago, SueB said:

I believe his answer was that he and Sam have a JOINT storyline.  Not that he has NO storyline.  Just that it’s not independent of Sam.  

Sam has a story line - we already know that. His connection to Chuck. Dean will also be there.

The person asked specifically if Dean had a story line, and to me, Jensen's reaction to that question spoke volumes. His facial and body language, combined with the actual words that came out of his mouth leave me with little doubt that Dean will be a supporting character in Sam's storyline (a la the Trials). He's nothing if not diplomatic.  If you have contrary information to that thanks to the M&G, that's another story, but what he said in that panel was pretty clear, IMO.

Edited November 4, 2019 by gonzosgirrl

[ILoveReading]

Moving to bitter spoilers.

Edited November 4, 2019 by ILoveReading

[catrox14]

Moved to these spoilers suck thread

Edited November 4, 2019 by catrox14
moved to Bitter spoliers for safety

[Bobcatkitten]

So let's talk about episode 10 people - the funny one Jensen mentioned. The premise is Sam and Dean are not themselves. They can't fight; Dean has cavities; Sam has a cold etc. He said one fight scene had the crew in stitches. 

Sounds hilarious and I can't wait for it!

[catrox14]

2 minutes ago, Bobcatkitten said:

So let's talk about episode 10 people - the funny one Jensen mentioned. The premise is Sam and Dean are not themselves. They can't fight; Dean has cavities; Sam has a cold etc. He said one fight scene had the crew in stitches. 

Sounds hilarious and I can't wait for it!

I'm guessing it's an AU thing?

[Bobcatkitten]

Could be. Or a spell gone awry - kind of like French Mistake. 

[desiresrisked]

1 hour ago, SueB said:

I was trying to be helpful but not get thrown out of future VIPs or M&Gs.  Didn’t mean to tease.  But I’ve removed all my comments to avoid that trouble. 

I apologize if I misread what you were hinting at and I understand the desire not to get in trouble w/creation. It was just knee jerk reaction to other speculation I saw on twitter about it being related to a romantic/sexual awakening and ending up about a ship instead of Dean himself. Since you’d only discounted the speculation going around about it being Dean using Cas, I mistakingly assumed you meant the other speculation was accurate given your comments on Cas being important to Dean. 
 

Anyway- Episode 10 sounds fun, I think Dabb mentioned something in an interview about that episode being one where the Winchesters have to confront what it means not to be heroic anymore or something like that. 
 

Other speculation- people dying but not permanently, I’m going to guess that’s Cas going to the Empty then being rescued (or maybe that’s where he runs into Jack and they come back with Death). I hope it doesn’t include Rowena because I thought she actually had a good death scene.

[SueB]

@desiresrisked no worries.  Clearly my comments were an unintended problem.

[Smad]

12 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

It's also not true that the brothers are linked in the story because only Sam is linked to God, not both of them.

Since Sam is literally the one connected to God atm, it's his storyline. Period. The only way for Dean to become an active part in this (and not just bystander/cheerleader again) is for his connection with Amara to become a plot point again. And I don't mean the weird part of it. But that he is the one calling on her and convincing her to join them against her brother and maybe devise a plan with her on how to take care of God for good.

Sadly I'm sure that 'dumb Dean' won't get the honor to even remotely have any of this happen or be allowed to have a good idea. If Jared's comment about 'Sam possessed by Amara' is an actual spoiler, then Sam doesn't just get one storyline with a primordial being but two. So where is there room for Dean in this storyline? Nowhere it looks like.

[Jonesy]

I do believe the larger storyline is Dean and Sam together fighting Chuck regardless if Sam has a connection they both can use to their advantage...as always it's both brother's story in the end...the 2 clear central characters.

[Castiels Cat]

On 10/26/2019 at 12:44 PM, SueB said:

Well, they are around the mid-season finale.  I’m worried they’ll kill her off.  
 

It's a given. They appear to be rewinding a clock. Killing off the newest characters first and so forth... 

I think we end up back at Stull too they way it was supposed to be.

[Castiels Cat]

7 hours ago, SueB said:

Not remotely.  No Destiel or Wincest.  Just that Dean praying to Cas is about Dean dealing with his own anger/grief, not groveling.  
 

Having said that,  it’s entirely possible that if Dean were to say something to Cas like ‘glad your back’ some would take that as groveling.  In which case I would disagree.  

But it appears my comments have caused consternation.  Not my intention.   There’s a solution for that.  

Dean had every right to be angry about Cas withholding information that could have saved Mary's life. Cas suspected Jack had lost his soul and was dangerous and he kept it to himself. Mary died as a result of Cas withholding thos information. Dean is angry and  has not forgiven him yet for the omission and blames blamed himself for hoping for the best outcome which makes it all the worse.

He forgave Jack because Jack lost his soul doing the stupid Winchester self sacrifice to save family and Jack asked for forgiveness and atonement. The season took great pains to show that Dean more than any of them saw Jack as his son.  Cas truly betrayed Dean. Forgiving that is going to take time and distance and probably tragedy.

[Castiels Cat]

On 10/26/2019 at 5:23 PM, ahrtee said:

Because Dabb is the Chuck of his own story and he can write it any way he wants.

The crystal was weak and it only sucked in spirits that were nearby. This was explained; it was an important plot point. It did not work on Angels or demons. 

[Castiels Cat]

On 10/19/2019 at 8:08 PM, ahrtee said:

But doesn't she have that page from the Book of the Damned (or was it the grimoire she stole from that witch family) that was supposed to make her strong enough to even withstand Lucifer? 

(Whatever happened to the Book of the Damned after Charlie was killed, anyway?  She didn't have it with her so the Stynes didn't get it...)  

She used it to regain her full powers. All of the souls in hell were released. There are too many. . . ie. Too much power. . . Even for her. That is why she was so desperate to stop the end of the world that she essentially killed herself to complete a powerful spell to close off hell and contain the ghosts before she died. 

On 10/19/2019 at 8:32 PM, gonzosgirrl said:

They'll have to remember to cut off her legs this time though, so she can't hide any pesky resurrection spells in them.

She removed the resurrection talisman herself before explaining the plan to Samuel.

Edited November 4, 2019 by Castiels Cat

[gonzosgirrl]

1 minute ago, Castiels Cat said:

She removed the resurrection talisman herself before explaining the plan to Samuel.

Yeah, I saw the episode. That post was from before it aired (and more than a little tongue-in-cheek 🙂 )

[Castiels Cat]

On 10/22/2019 at 11:13 AM, Aeryn13 said:

I think "getting to know him better" just means that Sam will continue to have some flashes that tell an alternate universe end-verse scenario story. Still imagine those will be quick flashes over the course of 2-3 episodes. Ultimately just to show how Chuck writes stories. I don't think those alterna-characters will be explored in any way, they are more exposition.

It's shoulder rubbing and wincing instead of palm rubbing and wincing. Red head Sam instead of head Fauxcifer.

1 minute ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Yeah, I saw the episode. That post was from before it aired (and more than a little tongue-in-cheek 🙂 )

Gotcha. 🤪

Edited November 4, 2019 by Castiels Cat

[Castiels Cat]

On 10/23/2019 at 4:39 PM, Jakes said:

To me Dabb was clearly speaking what Michael thinks of the boys not himself.   And I mean an archangel could easily have that arrogance.

Crowley called them nightmares in flannel. It is exactly how an archangel would see them and how Dabbler and Hacks would write the contempt Michael  might have.

Too soon to say exactly  how things will play out. My gut says they will probably aim for Stull 2.0.  There are big "ifs". Sam's shoulder wound and its God powers effect. Chuck's machinations being now known. Michael is patient zero for the most f'd by Chuck in every world. Initially he will probably blame Dean but then what. And what does it mean that Dean said yes to one Michael. Is the door still open technically? As much as I hated the hellspawn storyline. . . And I hated it. .  . They have been hitting some nice canon beats. . . I expect them to keep this up.

[SueB]

Based only on past history and speculation that Rowena might not be dead (which is why I'm not posting in the episode thread):

- Souls are power.
- Rowena just absorbed a SHIT-Ton (perhaps it was a metric SHIT-Ton, it was difficult to tell) of souls.
- If Rowena is existing in hell, she's probably the most powerful entity there.  AND a witch.

LONG LIVE THE QUEEN. 

[ILoveReading]

Jensen wrote an action sequence for the script. 

His song Sounds of Someday will be in the episode

He wants to come up with a story idea.  Let him writers.

[Casseiopeia]

7 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

He wants to come up with a story idea.  Let him writers.

How about the series finale???

[Aeryn13]

I'm excited for the action scene. Jensen is pretty good with stunts and action and if he was passionate about putting in a good action scene, I hope it's something special.

[PAForrest]

23 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Jensen wrote an action sequence for the script. 

His song Sounds of Someday will be in the episode

He wants to come up with a story idea.  Let him writers.

OMG, please, let Jensen write! Anything he comes up with would have to be better than what we've gotten so far.

This is a terrific little article. I'm excited for the first time this season.

[gonzosgirrl]

So the guest we were speculating on before is a 'he' (so, not Becky). Someone who is currently working on something else.

Frank?

Benny?

Yellow Eyes?

GORDON WALKER?!?!!!

Edited November 6, 2019 by gonzosgirrl

[Aeryn13]

Tim O.? 

I still think Sebastian Roche, though, because of the set photos.

Edited November 6, 2019 by Aeryn13

[gonzosgirrl]

2 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Tim O.? 

OMG that would be great. He says:

Quote

as well as a couple of key emotional moments, including bringing back “a character who’s one of my favorite characters of all time,” Ackles says.

Tim O would certainly fit the emotional bill, and we know how Jensen felt about Cain.

ETA: I bet you're right!

I think it's great that his song is going to get a little exposure on the show. Thank you, Mr. Editor, for asking. It's the very least this show owes him at this point.

Edited November 6, 2019 by gonzosgirrl

[Aeryn13]

2 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

OMG that would be great. He says:

Tim O would certainly fit the emotional bill, and we know how Jensen felt about Cain.

ETA: I bet you're right!

I`m not sure how Balthazar would bring a key moment, of course. For Cas maybe but he isn`t in the ep. With Chuck? Still seems random. 

Cain would be random, too, of course but more of a key figure for Dean. 

I gotta say Arrow`s final Season is better at bringing back characters on a farewell tour than SPN so far.  

[gonzosgirrl]

8 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Tim O.? 

I still think Sebastian Roche, though, because of the set photos.

Damnit, I forgot about that. You're right (only differently right). ETA: Although Seb coming back could be just part of the plethora of returning, characters, not necessarily the one Jensen requested. I don't see how it would be 'emotional' for him to see Balthazar again.

Edited November 6, 2019 by gonzosgirrl

[Aeryn13]

1 minute ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Damnit, I forgot about that. You're right (only differently right).

Difficult to say. Is Jensen aware that there were on-set photos with Seb Roche on twitter? Because he tried to keep this appearance mysterious in his interview. 

[gonzosgirrl]

Can someone remind me what was said previously about this episode that he, Jared and Speight had been kicking around? I feel like it was quite meta?

[Aeryn13]

2 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Can someone remind me what was said previously about this episode that he, Jared and Speight had been kicking around? I feel like it was quite meta?

No idea. This is the first time, in the interview, that I read about it. And they don`t seem confident they can fit it into Season 15 anyways. I`d say so what with the episodes themselves certainly having been broken by now. 

Dabb recently said episode 10 was a meta one about good/bad things about being a hero. But apparently it`s just more with slapstick fighting where the Winchesters suddenly can`t Winchester anymore and Dean has cavities/Sam has a cold. Sounds like Chuck`s terrible writing mojo in action.  

[gonzosgirrl]

5 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

No idea. This is the first time, in the interview, that I read about it. And they don`t seem confident they can fit it into Season 15 anyways. I`d say so what with the episodes themselves certainly having been broken by now. 

Dabb recently said episode 10 was a meta one about good/bad things about being a hero. But apparently it`s just more with slapstick fighting where the Winchesters suddenly can`t Winchester anymore and Dean has cavities/Sam has a cold. Sounds like Chuck`s terrible writing mojo in action.  

Maybe (probably) it was in a con panel, but I know I've read/heard it somewhere. It was a text thread between the three of  them, I think?

[hunenka]

1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Can someone remind me what was said previously about this episode that he, Jared and Speight had been kicking around? I feel like it was quite meta?

I can't recall at which con(s) they talked about it, but they mentioned several times that they've been talking about an episode à la The Naked Gun, and that they have a whole text threat of ideas between the three of them.

[Casseiopeia]

37 minutes ago, hunenka said:

I can't recall at which con(s) they talked about it, but they mentioned several times that they've been talking about an episode à la The Naked Gun, and that they have a whole text threat of ideas between the three of them.

It's VanCon main panel at 26:00 minutes

[ILoveReading]

I thought the time of Seb being on set didn't match up with this ep since it was filmed first.   Plus, Seb was filming another show at the time so its possible he was just visiting. 

I'm not sure Balthazar fits the description of "one of my favorite characters of all time."

I'd go with Yellow Eyes, Cain, Alastair or Gordon. 

It might be Cain since there was that glimpse in the SPPT trailer of what looked like Dean with the Mark.  

[Jonesy]

Really interesting MISHA INTERVIEW that gives us the most clues so far about the FINAL SCENE OF SUPERNATURAL.

It's over 30 minutes and was by Build Series Studio and posted at Nerds and Beyond--Misha is promoting his cook book BUT also talks about Supernatural.

Since it's over 30 minutes, i'll just tell the part where Misha talks about the FINAL SCENE OF THE SHOW.  Anyone wanting to see whole thing can go over to Nerds and Beyond--it was posted today.  Anyway, HERE IT GOES(IT'S PARAPHRASED but I also wrote down the pertinent points to get it right):

Misha goes on to say WE knew the final scene for a long time and the INTERVIEWER presses Misha on this and he says they knew the final scene before the season started...he said about 6 MONTHS.  He repeats what we here knew and what he been told openly...that the final scene is the last scene to be shot on last day by itself.   

Misha then says the FINAL DAY is going to be really hard and mentions it's going to be very emotional as he also mentions having the final scene shot in final day helps so we don't have to deal with the EMOTIONAL fall out if we had other scenes after that.  

So that's the essence of what Misha said about the final scene--the way he talked about it the scene, it was heavily implied Misha IS IN THAT SCENE...and obviously the J's are.  

So until I heard this I had doubts if Misha was in the final scene...know i'm pretty damn sure.  So we got that--and we get it's very emotional scene(that's no surprise!) and kind of says it's going to be HARD AND EMOTIONAL on the actors.

Also this CONTRADICTS what Misha was saying at Comic Con and afterward that he did not know the ending for Cas or the show...since he knows the final scene and it seems Cas is in it then he would know Cas's fate.  Can't blame Misha--it's best for him not tell too much.

Which now WORRIES ME about Cas's fate--Misha has been saying he think Cas needs to die and sacrifice himself...he was saying this while he probably ALREADY knew Cas's fate.  Could Misha be misdirecting us OR is he already pumping up the ending for Cas...a sacrifice and death?

I was always 50/50 on if Cas dies...now I sadly have to lean more to death and sacrifice.  The BOYS get some version of peace--does Cas sacrifice himself to help give them that?

I think I got what Misha was saying and and the facts he was spitting out though there is a little vagueness at points too.

Edited November 6, 2019 by Jakes

[Smad]

1 hour ago, Jakes said:

So that's the essence of what Misha said about the final scene--the way he talked about it the scene, it was heavily implied Misha IS IN THAT SCENE...and obviously the J's are.

The final scene will probably be Cas and Jack lounging in chairs in the paradise they created, slapping each other on the back and talking about their awesomeness. Because they made paradise happen. Cut to the Winchesters who are rotting in damnation because they have never made the world a better place.

[Bobcatkitten]

They have talked about the Naked Supernatural thing a few times. Could that be the same as the one Jensen mentioned this weekend where the Winchesters lose their mojo? Ep 10?