S02.E07: Valerie Faces The Critics

[Tara Ariano]

"Seeing Red" premieres and Valerie deals with a barrage of reviews, but the harshest criticism comes not from the ladies on "The Talk" or the media but from her husband, Mark. Meanwhile, Valerie gets a surprise on a trip to Mickey's apartment.

[CofCinci]

Answer your door, Mickey!

[Fisher King]

Yes, please answer your door, Mickey.

[Primetimer]

Valerie's need to save her marriage rams into Jane's need for good footage.

Read the story

[Kitkat52]

I need this show to be renewed. And yes, Mickey, open your door!

Edited December 22, 2014 by Kitkat52

[CofCinci]

I literally could not breathe during the 'Mark/Valerie/Restaurant/Parking Lot' scene.  They've made it through an affair and an abortion -- I hope they can make it through this.  Poor Esperanza thinks every door bell is Mr. Mark returning home.  Valerie gets an Emmy nod and lost her husband in the process.  Will he show up at the Emmys?  Guess we'll have to wait for the finale next week.

 

When we saw naked Mickey I thought he was dead!  That scene was hysterical.  Guess he signed the release and his dick is now HBO famous.

 

Paulie G doesn't get to go to Juna's annual party? Heheheehe.

[CMH1981]

Wow, these time jumps are something else. 

 

I agree CofCinci that restaurant/parking lot showdown was intense/cringe inducing and just everything all rolled into one.  I wish Val had put her foot down and told Jane no to the cameras/microphones, although I don't think it would have mattered b/c I think Mark really has moved on.  Does anyone else think that he chose to meet Val at the restaurant to break the news he wanted a divorce?  I was glad when the argument moved to the parking lot that Val stood her ground and let him know just how much she has been in his corner.  I felt so bad when he said nobody cares about her career but at least she let him know that she believed in herself if nobody else did.  

 

Val's appearance on the Talk was horrible, it's at times like these you think she really deserves what she gets.

 

I was so afraid that Mickey was dead inside the apartment, especially after the build up that nobody had heard from him in what seemed like 24 hours.  I thought perhaps he had died on the couch at Val's house when she brought the salad, but the episode synopsis already gave it away the scare would come later on.

 

So Val has no clue as to what she has just filmed six episodes for.  She really is just an actress saying the lines, but putting some emotion behind them...just no thought.  I guess that can cover a lot of actors these days, just saying the lines and going through the motions looking for validation and possibly a reward at the end.  I think Val needs to have Jane explain the show to her, or at least Mickey.

 

So it's seems that Jane isn't on Val's side at all considering she has named the documentary "The Assassination of Valerie Cherish," combined w/pushing Val to wear the mic at the dinner.

 

Wow, the elevator scene w/Paulie G basically begging for someone to let him piggyback to Juna's party was bad.  I felt bad for him, but he made the mess he's in.  You can tell he is trying to rectify his past mistakes.  I honestly can't see Juna freezing him out, she just never seemed like that type unless he did something to her that we aren't aware of when they were alone.

 

As for the previews for next week, we have Juna upset at Valerie for some past thing as well as Kellan Lutz character admitting he has a crush on Val.  I wonder if he is thinking of going for an Ashton Kutcher / Demi Moore type thing since she is re-gaining popularity, or he is just trying to get in to the Emmy's.

 

After these last two episodes it's a crime that Lisa Kudrow wasn't nominated for a Golden Globe or SAG, especially if it is true that voters were given access to all the episodes to this point.  If she doesn't get an Emmy nom or win, and I know it will be hard since she is up against JLD in Veep, then i'm guessing Kudrow has run over a lot of voters puppies. 

Edited December 22, 2014 by CMH1981

[Brooklynista]

Now I want to know more about that abortion. Did Valerie have the abortion? Was it to protect her career? Was it something Mark was against but dealt with so Valerie could pursue her dream? Did whoever Mark have the affair with have an abortion?

[Skeeter22]

Thank God Mickey was OK. He has been the MVP of this season.

I've been so impressed with this season. After such a long time, I wasn't sure they could really make another season as good as the first. The TV landscape has changed so much since then, for scripted and reality shows, that I wasn't sure where they could take Valerie Cherish and make it seem relevant. The decision to go even darker and skewer HBO has been inspired. I love season 1, but I'm glad the show got cancelled the first time. We never could have had a season like this 9 years ago.

[hoodooznoodooz]

Loved Valerie listing the various occupations and roles of women on "Seeing Red" while answering a blogger's question about "the use of women."

(Paraphrasing) "What a nice day. Speaking of nice days, have you seen Mark's golf trophy?"

Edited December 23, 2014 by hoodooznoodooz

[StatMom]

Wow, LK pulled no punches in these scenes tonight. Between her concern for Mickey and the "I AM somebody" speech, I was wowed. In the latter case, I also appreciated how Valerie took this powerful statement, and then wandered into the fact that she has a birth certificate. OK, not really making your case with that point, Val. Such a Valerie Cherish moment.

[sugarbaker design]

Does anyone else think that he chose to meet Val at the restaurant to break the news he wanted a divorce?

 

 

Yup.

 

Val's appearance on the Talk was horrible,

 

 

It was hysterical when she mentioned her first sitcom and paused for an applause break (which never came).

 

Did Valerie have the abortion?

 

 

Judging by the speed with which she was trying to remove her mike, I would say, yes indeed, it was VC who had the abortion.

 

The decision to go even darker and skewer HBO has been inspired.

 

 

Totally inspired, this is must see TV.  I loved Mark's "Are you in there anymore?"

 

Did one of those pictures on MIckey's wall look just like Tyler?

[hoodooznoodooz]

Heehee. Not only did they not applaud, they had no idea what she was referencing.

StatMom: I also appreciated how Valerie took this powerful statement, and then wandered into the fact that she has a birth certificate. OK, not really making your case with that point, Val. Such a Valerie Cherish moment.

That was so funny. I would love to be in the writers' room when they are coming up with this stuff.

brooklynista: Was it something Mark was against but dealt with so Valerie could pursue her dream? Did whoever Mark have the affair with have an abortion?

Man, if their marriage was strong enough to survive either of those scenarios, that is quite impressive and speaks volumes about just how much Seeing Red and The Assassination of Valerie Cherish have affected Mark.

Edited December 22, 2014 by hoodooznoodooz

[pasdetrois]

I can see how an actor would lose touch with who he/she is, and with reality. In this series we have Valerie playing herself playing a character, all while being trailed by a documentary crew, and with a different production crew set up in her home. It's like Alice in Wonderland.

 

Robert Michael Morris was very brave to show himself naked, sprawled out on a bed. And we also had a rare full-frontal penis! Kind of makes up for those two naked women who flanked Valerie in an earlier episode. (I hate female-only nudity.)

 

I almost - almost - felt sorry for Paulie G as he verified that everyone else had been invited to Juna's party.

 

I kind of expected Valerie not to care about a divorce, other than any bad press, so I was surprised to see her fight so hard. Of course, as Mark drove away she flubbed it all with her "I won't know how to explain your absence."

 

I'm really looking forward to the finale.

[hoodooznoodooz]

It is indeed like Alice in Wonderland!

I was surprised that Valerie used so much of her not on-camera self while interacting with Mark.

What was the name of the site? greydaddy.com?

[sugarbaker design]

I heard hungrydaddy.com.

 

I almost - almost - felt sorry for Paulie G as he verified that everyone else had been invited to Juna's party.

 

 

Even Billy was invited!

Edited December 22, 2014 by sugarbaker design

[gesundheit]

What a phenomenal episode. 

 

And I hate to say it, but after seeing their fight with all pretenses dropped: I'd prefer they end the marriage. They both have a right to be upset with each other but their issues aren't temporary, they just aren't well-suited for each other. 

[CofCinci]

Now.... do you think Jane knew Mark would be ending the marriage that night?  Certainly she has more awareness into the issue than poor Valerie does.

[AuntiePam]

I don't think Mark was planning to ask for a divorce. Even after he found out Val was wearing a mic, he didn't ask for one. Mark asking Val "Are you even in there?" tells us what we already know but haven't seen -- there's another Valerie, one who's a different woman when the cameras aren't around. I agree with the HuffPo reviewer who said that this season should have showed us more of that Valerie.

She's so damn insecure -- with reason -- she's not that special as an actress. Where she can be special is as a person.

[Fisher King]

It is indeed like Alice in Wonderland!

I was surprised that Valerie used so much of her not on-camera self while interacting with Mark.

What was the name of the site? greydaddy.com?

 

Captioning showed greydaddy.com .

 

Valerie is just clueless. Lisa Kudrow is phenomenal. I'd rather see Mark & Val split than to see him continually taken for granted.

 

So glad Mickey's not dead!

[hoodooznoodooz]

Now.... do you think Jane knew Mark would be ending the marriage that night? Certainly she has more awareness into the issue than poor Valerie does.

I think Valerie's postal carrier probably has more awareness into the issue than poor Valerie does.

But seriously, I think Jane just knew with absolute certainty that it would be awkward and, therefore, would make for great viewing.

Lisa Kudrow amazes me. If they nominate Lisa, Julia Louis Dreyfus and Laurie Metcalf for an Emmy, I will not know whom to root for.

Edited December 22, 2014 by hoodooznoodooz

[CMH1981]

I don't think Mark is even that cruel to tell Val he wanted a divorce on camera, that's why I think when he realized Jane and the crew were there he didn't go forward and tell her what he wanted.  It would have been so easy for Mark to just tell Val that it's over, he is done w/their marriage in the parking lot, but he didn't b/c he is self-aware as well.

 

Is it just me or is Val's life turning out to be one of those house-trash shows after all?

Edited December 22, 2014 by CMH1981

[SFoster21]

Wish I could write like this. Totally in awe.

Wish I could write like this. Totally in awe.

[iMonrey]

 

Even Billy was invited!

 

No, he was the only one who said no when Paulie G was asking who was going. 

 

There is an undercurrent of sadness in this show that is much more prevalent now than in the first season, and it's almost uncomfortable to watch, like seeing Valerie give in to Jane's insistence that she wear a hidden mike to her dinner date, knowing how badly it's going to turn out, knowing it's inevitable that Mark will find out and it will make things even worse. It really did sound like he was prepping for a divorce request before he knew about the Mike, too. 

 

I guess the saving grace is that after such a dramatic scene in the parking lot they're able to turn it around and do a hilarious scene in Mickey's apartment. Tyler totally cracks me up, imitating Mickey's "date." I'm guessing that's why Valerie ordered him to fetch the water when the cross dresser started asking questions at the press junket, because she figured Tyler was going to say something inappropriate.

 

Kudrow really does deserve an Emmy for this. I love Julia Louis Dreyfus but I'm getting a little tired of seeing her walk away with the Emmy every year when there are others just as good.

[Mumbles]

The Micky scene was funny but seemed out of place. From season 1, we knew that Micky had a "lover" (Robert?) -sure, that was ten years ago so they may have broken up but it set up for me the idea that Micky was into committed relationships as opposed to pickups. Plus Micky and Val have been together for 20+ years and her alarm in not hearing from him suggested he never not returned her calls.

Of course it just may be that his sickness/treatment is either giving him memory lapses, or a "screw it, life's too short, let me pick up a young guy for the night" attitude. Can't really fault him for either.

[txhorns79]

From season 1, we knew that Micky had a "lover" (Robert?) -sure, that was ten years ago so they may have broken up but it set up for me the idea that Micky was into committed relationships as opposed to pickups. Plus Micky and Val have been together for 20+ years and her alarm in not hearing from him suggested he never not returned her calls.

 

I think her alarm was more over the fact that he is very sick, and she truly thought he was dead or dying.  If he had been otherwise healthy, I don't think Valerie would have been so freaked out over the missed appointment.   

 

 

I'm guessing that's why Valerie ordered him to fetch the water when the cross dresser started asking questions at the press junket, because she figured Tyler was going to say something inappropriate.

 

That whole thing was just weird.  I felt like that guy and the set up was some kind of inside joke that I didn't get.

 

My heart did break a little for Valerie and Mark during their fight.  They both made good points, and Valerie really made a big mistake in having that mic on her.  I did wonder if Mark was fine with Valerie "acting" so long as it didn't lead to anything, i.e. she can be a "star" so long as her stardom is solely in her head. 

[JasminePhyllisia]

I'm hoping for a reconciliation between Valerie and Mark, but it's not looking likely.

 

I didn't like Jane in this episode. 

 

One thing I can say for Valerie is she has her own coping mechanisms which don't include those which many other faded, D-list celebrities might turn to, however annoying she may be.  No addiction, no starving and/or overeating.  And she chooses self-delusional optimism over bitterness (remember how bitter and angry Paulie G's former co-writer was at Nickelodeon?)  Yes, she paused for applause for I'm It, but when she didn't get it, it didn't seem to phase her, she just moved on.

 

On the other hand she's also had two devoted cheerleaders--Mark and Mickey.  What happens if she loses both of them?      

[enchantingmonkey]

Did one of those pictures on MIckey's wall look just like Tyler?

Yeah, I noticed that, too.  

[hoodooznoodooz]

Did it piss off Jane that Val claimed that she was wearing a mic for Jane who really needed a win? Will there be repercussions?

Edited December 23, 2014 by hoodooznoodooz

[Richard]

Brilliantly written and acted episode.

I'd been dreading a Mickey death since the Improv episode so I was.glad the is was a fake out.

Anyone else notice the valet who gave Mark his keys was the same valet from season one: "No charge."

[hoodooznoodooz]

Anyone else notice the valet who gave Mark his keys was the same valet from season one: "No charge."

Could you remind me of the circumstances? I don't think I have access to season 1. Thank you in advance.

[Richard]

Valerie met Juna at an exclusive LA restaurant and was almost stood up by her. At the end of the episode as i think Girls Just wanna Have Fun is playing, Valerie is waiting for her car to be returned by the valet. Another couple who got there after her gets their car first. The valet guy tell her "no charge," to which Valerie thanks him and then tips him. After he compliments her watch, she steps away and covers her watch.

This season has had a lot of callbacks to the first season. Last week Paulie G spilled his french fries as he tossed them in the trash, just like Valerie dropped her yogurt in the first season. I could thinkb of more but I'm late for work.

[CMH1981]

I've been confused about something, when Paulie G is in the elevator trying to get an invite to Juna's party he asks Mickey if he is going, Mickey says he goes ever year.  So Mickey has still been in contact w/Juna for years now yet Val has not been?  Perhaps I misread Val running into Juna in the first episode this season but it seemed like she had not been in contact w/Juna for years...perhaps after Room and Bored ended, is that right?

[sugarbaker design]

Perhaps I misread Val running into Juna in the first episode this season but it seemed like she had not been in contact w/Juna for years...perhaps after Room and Bored ended, is that right?

 

I got the impression Val really really wanted a photo op with now mega-star Juna (who was being swarmed by paparazzi,) hence all Val's excitement.

[iMonrey]

Since Mickey seemed to indicate that Juna has this party every year, I guess it's safe to assume Valerie has attended every year, and simply hadn't seen Juna since her last party. Notice Paulie G didn't ask Mickey if he could be his "plus one."

[Ceruleana]

"Reddddddd!  I'm naked!"  I laughed so hard at that scene because I imagine that's exactly how my mom would wail if I ever dared to barge into her bedroom with a camera crew.  Like, wtf Valerie?  And what a shame that he said that she hadn't been to his apartment since 1993 when he first moved in.  Ay.

 

I think that Mark should move on--Valerie is losing touch with reality by the day, and that Valerie that he knew is getting consumed by the Fame Monster.  She also doesn't seem to get that "The Assassination of Valerie Cherish" is going to be damning, and I can't wait to see it.

 

So we're seeing Juna and Kellan Lutz' character, too bad we don't see the other two roomies or the Indian dudes, it'd be nice to see how they all fared after Room and Bored.

 

I would love to see this "comeback" for a third season!

[hoodooznoodooz]

Valerie met Juna at an exclusive LA restaurant and was almost stood up by her. At the end of the episode as i think Girls Just wanna Have Fun is playing, Valerie is waiting for her car to be returned by the valet. Another couple who got there after her gets their car first. The valet guy tell her "no charge," to which Valerie thanks him and then tips him. After he compliments her watch, she steps away and covers her watch.

This season has had a lot of callbacks to the first season. Last week Paulie G spilled his french fries as he tossed them in the trash, just like Valerie dropped her yogurt in the first season. I could thinkb of more but I'm late for work.

Thank you, Richard, for the reminders. Great catch wrt the French fries and the yoghurt!

Sorry for being dense, but why did Val cover her watch?

[DrivingSideways]

Wowzers.  I've been on and off the fence about the concept of a Season 2 of The Comeback for a long time even though I of course love the eps (Comeback Season 1 is my favorite thing ever).  But this episode was just amazing.  That fight with Mark was raw and the realest we've ever seen Val.  I always loved the notion that no matter how crazy Val got, she always had Mark as her rock.  But he has been patient for years and I see his point.  On the other hand, I saw her points as well.  It was a truly difficult argument to watch, well acted with excellent dialogue.

 

I don't really fault Jane too much... her job is a documentarian.  If Val wasn't strong enough to say no to the mic, that failure is on Val and not Jane.  Having said that, Jane doesn't seem like a particularly warm or nice person.

 

Thank God Mickey is okay.  That scene was golden.

[iMonrey]

 

I think that Mark should move on--Valerie is losing touch with reality by the day, and that Valerie that he knew is getting consumed by the Fame Monster.  She also doesn't seem to get that "The Assassination of Valerie Cherish" is going to be damning, and I can't wait to see it.

 

I see this more as a condemnation of Mark, frankly. Sure, having the camera crew at his house was a giant pain and Valerie offering up their house for Seeing Red was crossing a line. But it appears that Mark has been "supportive" of her so long as her work didn't interfere in his life. We know she's done very little in the last ten years so that probably made it pretty easy for him to support her. Now she's enjoying a modicum of mainstream success and it's annoying him. That's less being supportive and more being tolerant of her career so long as it didn't encroach into his life. 

 

What if she was a really huge star and had paparazzi following her around everywhere they went? Would he still be "supportive" of her? I just think it was easy to support her when she was a nobody because all it meant was humoring her unfulfilled ambition. This HBO show is apparently a very limited, six-episode series, so how long did he really have to put up with all this? A few months, which he could spend in one of their rental homes? I personally don't think that's asking a whole hell of a lot from a so-called "supportive" partner and yet it's been enough to drive him towards a divorce. I think that says a lot about how he really feels about her.

[Ceruleana]

The BTS/Assassination of VC crew inserting themselves into Mark and Valerie's daily lives (via permission of the latter--she did not confer with Mark, just sprung them on him) is troubling.  Then, she goes and offers up her house to the Seeing Red crew--again, sort of springing it on Mark--and they tear up the house at that.  Another blow is Mark having to pay for the damages out of his own pocket.  Valerie can't and won't set boundaries and it's killing her relationship.

 

In a couple of scenes over the past few episodes, you hear Valerie say something to Mark and he says, "Are there cameras around?" or "Oh...you must be on tape."  So now you have a husband who thinks that a wife being considerate is only doing so to look good for TV!  That is how far Valerie has gone in her zeal for fame--she's obviously willing to sacrifice everything for it, and I think Mark's reaction is justifiable.  In the parking lot scene he said, "Are you even in there anymore?"  He does not recognize his wife as she is morphing into a total famewhore.  He shouldn't support that!  Famewhores are not genuine, they are not rational.  They don't live healthy lives, they live for the cameras, to be seen.  It's destructive, and Mark should get away from that.

 

Yes, he could have simply gone to one of the rental homes, but why should he?  That's his home, too.  Why couldn't Valerie take the crew to one of the rental homes?  It works both ways.  I can tell that coddling Valerie and validating her was probably a full-time job for him, but he loved her so he just dealt.  Now that you're getting some good reviews from a show (that was created by her nemesis to mock her, no less), you're going to just toss me aside like a ragdoll when I've always been in your corner giving you good reviews?  It's bullshit and she knows it, but she feels like she can't stop now.  She's finally, finally arriving at the destination she's been driving to for years: the Hollywood A-list.  Just like Juna Milkken!  And really, marriage be damned.  She's got her publicist and Mickey to gush over her, and now, a film crew to just stare blankly at her while she waxes poetic on the joys of being seen as "It".

 

She's delusional and probably needs to hit rock-bottom so she can reassess her life and what's truly valuable.  Right now, her marriage is not all that valuable, but that film crew constantly following her around and confirming that she's Somebody, is.  Mark has every right to be upset.  She is so obsessed with "storytelling" that she can't say when.  Any opportunity to get that shot!  ...and another one for safety.  ...and another one.

[iMonrey]

I think Mark's reaction would be justifiable if this were something that had been going on for years with no end in sight, but that's not the case. This is something that went on for a few months, at most. And he's already thinking about separation and possibly divorce? After a few months of being annoyed by her? That's an overly extreme reaction in my book. I'm not saying Mark doesn't have a right to be annoyed by this intrusion, I'm saying it's awfully soon to be thinking about calling it quits just because Valerie got carried away with her career. If Mark walks, I don't think he can claim the moral high ground here. It makes him seem like he only wants unemployed, unobtrusive Valerie, not ambitious and successful Valerie. 

 

There are ways they can work around this. He just doesn't seem to want to. If he'd rather just bail on the marriage it speaks to what kind of box he expected to keep his wife in.

[Richard]

Thank you, Richard, for the reminders. Great catch wrt the French fries and the yoghurt!

Sorry for being dense, but why did Val cover her watch?

I always interpreted it as slightly racist. Like she might think he would steal it.

[hoodooznoodooz]

Richard: Ah, yes! I think you're right. I now remember throughout both seasons there being many quick, barely perceptible moments that revealed Val's racist behavior. Thank you for clarifying.

So I watched a few of this season's earlier episodes. Mark seemed pretty enthusiastic about meeting Seth Rogan and HBO giving Val tickets. He definitely likes the perks Val's career provides.

Anyone have any theories about their income? I once thought that Val might have had a lot of money (well-invested I'm It! money, perhaps?) the way she would offer to pay for things. But now I am not so sure.

Edited December 27, 2014 by hoodooznoodooz

[DrivingSideways]

I always thought Valerie made a decent living while on It, but it wasn't on long enough for syndication, so I figured Mark was the one who brought in the big money.  They seem to be very comfortable - they live in the Hollywood Hills, right?

 

I am really hoping that Marky Mark can forgive Val.  He had valid points but I love those two together!  And she really does care for him and try to be considerable, she just can't resist when the fame monster comes calling!

[Milburn Stone]

I always thought Valerie made a decent living while on It, but it wasn't on long enough for syndication, so I figured Mark was the one who brought in the big money.  They seem to be very comfortable - they live in the Hollywood Hills, right?

 

I am really hoping that Marky Mark can forgive Val.  He had valid points but I love those two together!  And she really does care for him and try to be considerable, she just can't resist when the fame monster comes calling!

 

I predict that in the finale, Mark and Valerie will reconcile, and then at the very end there's going to be some new thing that makes Mark crazy all over again, and it'll be like "wah wah wahhhhh..."

 

Not that there's anything wrong with that.