S01.E09: 9

[HumblePi]

Helen's using shampoo that costs $60 a bottle, along with her not realizing how crappy it is not to leave a tip for a waitress, especially one who just saved your daughter's life, presents a very unflattering picture of how she views people and money. Also that bit about the psychic was a total WTF for me. Otherwise, I find her to be a sympathetic character.

 

I found it odd that Helen rudely refused to accept the necklace that Noah gave her in the restaurant because she told him they can't even afford to pay their AmEx bill but she can treat herself to a very expensive bottle of shampoo.

[DarkRaichu]

I found it odd that Helen rudely refused to accept the necklace that Noah gave her in the restaurant because she told him they can't even afford to pay their AmEx bill but she can treat herself to a very expensive bottle of shampoo.

To Helen the shampoo was a necessity and was already part of their budget (if they had any).  The necklace was an impulse buy which was why they could no "afford" it

[HumblePi]

Why would Scotty show up at the Planned Parenthood where she made her appointment for the abortion if he wasn't the father?

 

As for the computer, have you ever tried taking away a teen girl's computer and cell phone?  They act like you're cutting off their arms.

At Planned Parenthood when Noah attacked Scotty, he did say "I'm a friend!"

[izabella]

At Planned Parenthood when Noah attacked Scotty, he did say "I'm a friend!"

 

Mmm, I don't buy that any more than Noah did.

[stillshimpy]

Yeah, plus Scotty doesn't seem the type to show up to support "a friend" at planned parenthood.  I was honestly surprised that he had enough decency within him to show up for the girl he knocked up.  

 

I don't know what type of guy Max is meant to be, but he's going to have known Whitney since she was a baby, so I'm going to go ahead and keep believing that Scotty is the more likely culprit.  

 

Beside, ultimately Noah did walk out of that room with Whitney's computer.  I think she just didn't want them to find Planned Parenthood in her internet history because she stopped protesting about his taking the computer after she had confessed, and then he took it with him when he left the room. 

 

 

 

I found it odd that Helen rudely refused to accept the necklace that Noah gave her in the restaurant because she told him they can't even afford to pay their AmEx bill but she can treat herself to a very expensive bottle of shampoo.

 

I don't really think are comparable expenditures as jewelry is far more expensive, but also, Helen wasn't really turning the gift down because of money.  She was turning it down because it was her "sticking it out" gift.  My how special.  

 

I think the most I've ever spent on a bottle of shampoo was $35 , but for things like face creams or whatever, almost anyone occasionally indulges in a frivolous purchase.  Allegedly lipstick sales were one of the few things that are recession proof, because appearance is one of the areas people still splurge on, even when times are tight.  

Edited December 15, 2014 by stillshimpy

[izabella]

Yeah, plus Scotty doesn't seem the type to show up to support "a friend" at planned parenthood.  I was honestly surprised that he had enough decency within him to show up for the girl he knocked up. 

 

I think so little of Scotty that I'm pretty sure he only showed up to PP to make sure Whitney went through with the abortion.

[Ellaria]

I don't really think are comparable expenditures as jewelry is far more expensive, but also, Helen wasn't really turning the gift down because of money.  She was turning it down because it was her "sticking it out" gift.  My how special.  

 

I think the most I've ever spent on a bottle of shampoo was $35 , but for things like face creams or whatever, almost anyone occasionally indulges in a frivolous purchase.  Allegedly lipstick sales were one of the few things that are recession proof, because appearance is one of the areas people still splurge on, even when times are tight.  

 

Agree. Helen didn't turn down the necklace because it was too expensive. She turned it down because it was a reminder of his affair...mostly because Noah gave her the "sticking it out" line. What kind of an idiot would say that? How about "because I love you" or "because you are the best thing that ever happened to me?" That Noah - such an insensitive clod.

 

 

Mmm, I don't buy that any more than Noah did.

 

No reason to believe that anyone other than Scotty is the father.

[Bcharmer]

We can fanwank that the price was written on in sharpie, not affixed with a tag, can't we? If she bought it at a salon, they might not have the price tag affixer thingie.

 

Anyway, I think dumping the shampoo was Alison's "I drink your milkshake!" moment.

 

We certainly could, Attica. But who has time to individually write the price on each product in a salon by hand, these days? That's why (at least at my salon) they just use one of those price cards that are affixed to the shelves. No fuss, no muss. :)

 

I like the "I drink your milkshake!" comparison.  It was definitely an "I spill your shampoo!" moment.

[GeminiDancer]

 

This coupled with Sarah's tweet about Cole and Helen, (which seemed to imply that people who found them sympathetic were watching the series *wrong*) then yeah I think the show wants us to root for Noah and Alison.

 

If that's what she's suggesting then the writers are doing something wrong because there's no way in hell I'm rooting for Noah and Alison as a couple. They're both immature assholes hiding behind their respective mid-life crisis and grief to justify their asshole behavior. They're the biggest assholish assholes to ever asshole on the show, even moreso than Oscar.

[Constantinople]

At the last moment, Alison decides not to drown herself.

 

After watching someone else jump out of a building, Noah fails to take the hint.

 

Pity.  It could have been a good episode.

[Ellaria]

At the last moment, Alison decides not to drown herself.

 

After watching someone else jump out of a building, Noah fails to take the hint.

 

Pity.  It could have been a good episode.

 

This made me laugh out loud.

[Darian]

If that's what she's suggesting then the writers are doing something wrong because there's no way in hell I'm rooting for Noah and Alison as a couple. They're both immature assholes hiding behind their respective mid-life crisis and grief to justify their asshole behavior. They're the biggest assholish assholes to ever asshole on the show, even moreso than Oscar.

Yeah, the closest I come to rooting for them is thinking they deserve each other.  

[stillshimpy]

Yeah, the closest I come to rooting for them is thinking they deserve each other.

 

Precisely. 

 

It isn't even that I have some very black and white view of infidelity.  I think relationships are extremely complicated and that people who end up having affairs aren't, just by that evidence, necessarily bad, or evil, or even sometimes selfish because marriages are complicated as hell and people are also.  However, they are both being rather self-destructive right now and are being cruel to the people around them. 

 

 

 

. What kind of an idiot would say that? How about "because I love you" or "because you are the best thing that ever happened to me?" That Noah - such an insensitive clod.

 

At least it's in keeping with the rest of his timing.  In a way I actually had to laugh at Noah's timing, in a very dark manner, because holy crow.  "You're such a good mother...but in the spirit of performance reviews where you always lead with something positive, I should probably mention that I'm leaving you for other opportunities."  I just loved that in Noah's very tunnel-visioned head (where it's all currently about his feelings for Alison) he managed to think "well, obviously we'll work towards my eventually leaving, but I couldn't possibly put off telling you this until one of our kids wasn't actively in crisis, who knows when one of the little rotters will decide to impale themselves on a newel post or hang by the neck until truly dead?  Time's a wasting....so...."  but didn't have it occur to him that perhaps this great news could wait until after their daughter had had an abortion.  

 

I found myself hoping that Helen had a nice prescription for Xanax because she was going to need it.  

Edited December 15, 2014 by stillshimpy

[Bcharmer]

I just remembered something. During the scuffle with Scotty, Noah utters the words, "I'm gonna fucking kill you." In the very next scene, after he tells Max that Whitney is pregnant by Alison's brother in law, he says,"If you don't stop laughing, I'm gonna kill you."  Now, having Noah say that one time, is enough to plant that seed in the viewer's mind that he may have actually killed Scotty (not that the seed needed planting, but anyway), but to have him say it again, so soon after the first time? A bit of over-kill, perhaps? No pun intended.

Edited December 15, 2014 by Bcharmer

[HumblePi]

If we get a look at Alison's kid the next season and he looks anything like this then I'm giving up on this show. Oscar, Jr?  ew

 

[DarkRaichu]

I just remembered something. During the scuffle with Scotty, Noah utters the words, "I'm gonna fucking kill you." In the very next scene, after he tells Max that Whitney is pregnant by Alison's brother in law, he says,"If you don't stop laughing, I'm gonna kill you."  Now, having Noah say that one time, is enough to plant that seed in the viewer's mind that he may have actually killed Scotty (not that the seed needed planting, but anyway), but to have him say it again, so soon after the first time? A bit of over-kill, perhaps? No pun intended.

Just in case people missed the detective accusing Noah of the murder the minute he walked to the 2nd interview

If we get a look at Alison's kid the next season and he looks anything like this then I'm giving up on this show. Oscar, Jr?  ew

 

I thought Alison mentioned a daughter.... Not sure if that would make it worse or better... lol

[HumblePi]

I just remembered something. During the scuffle with Scotty, Noah utters the words, "I'm gonna fucking kill you." In the very next scene, after he tells Max that Whitney is pregnant by Alison's brother in law, he says,"If you don't stop laughing, I'm gonna kill you."  Now, having Noah say that one time, is enough to plant that seed in the viewer's mind that he may have actually killed Scotty (not that the seed needed planting, but anyway), but to have him say it again, so soon after the first time? A bit of over-kill, perhaps? No pun intended.

Scotty was killed by a hit and run. I know that the writers love messing with our heads and they throw us clues that send us in another direction other than the real direction. I'm still not convinced that Scotty is the father of Whitney's baby, it's way too obvious they want us to think that. I don't trust them. There's been too many inconsistencies that really don't make any sense or mean anything. Like the detective telling Noah he had twin girls, then changed it to twin boys. What would be the point of that?  None, other than to confuse the viewers.

Just in case people missed the detective accusing Noah of the murder the minute he walked to the 2nd interview

I thought Alison mentioned a daughter.... Not sure if that would make it worse or better... lol

That wouldn't matter since the detective said he had twin girls then they became twin boys. LMAO!

Edited December 15, 2014 by HumblePi

[jrlr]

At the last moment, Alison decides not to drown herself.

 

After watching someone else jump out of a building, Noah fails to take the hint.

 

Pity.  It could have been a good episode.

That seriously made me laugh!

[JenE4]

These people are so tragic. I have to agree with the comments about not understanding Sarah Treem's insistence that these are happy people who had happy lives, and it's the story of these two soul mates finding love. Is she writing/producing the same show that we're watching? I almost don't know how to "watch" this show. I certainly don't see any happy ending here, so I don't like Treem's insistence that there "should" be? ("Will" be?) Or maybe that it just "was"? I suppose I need to look for this interview myself. In the meantime, I'm going to follow Noah's literature lesson last week. Noah and Alison are Romeo and Juliet. They THINK they have this deep, innocent, all-encompassing love, but there's not going to be a happily ever after for ANYONE involved here. EVERYONE is going to be destroyed in this "love story."

 

In Noah's version, he didn't tell Alison that he was leaving Helen, right? I THINK that although he had some internal debate and discussions with Max, he did NOT say anything to Alison until he left her a message on the train. Am I recalling that correctly? But, from Alison's perspective, he sweeps her off her feet with this idea of a writer's love nest and they'll be together...but, well, YOU'LL need to leave your husband and sign this 2-year lease to live in this cell of a room (complete with bars on the windows), and I'll stay with Helen for 9 more months...and then Alison thinks Helen is pregnant and assumes he'll NEVER actually leave her...and now you also won't get your ranch payday to leave Cole... But, okay, I can understand the cutting and the suicide attempt in feeling the immense pain and guilt of being told that it's YOUR FAULT that your son is dead...but sleeping with Oscar was just too much. I get that this woman is as self-destructive as they come, but that made no sense to me. Cole is still a decent husband. She was just trying to get pregnant with him, so I think she still loves him. Is it because she can't separate him from his mother? That's the only grasp at straws that I can come up with to try to make any sense of that. Or it's like a progression of the most self-destructive things that she can think of: 1) cutting, 2) suicide, 3) sleeping with Oscar. On second thought, this does sound about right.

 

And, Noah, ugh, I can't even understand where he's coming from. IF he did say that he'd leave Helen in 9 months after Whitney graduates--because somehow she's the only kid that matters or, like, maybe Bruce would make sure Noah pays for half of Whitney's private school--he couldn't even just wait 1 day until after the abortion? But, hmm. Something just occurred to me. Let's assume that they both, indeed, saw the pregnancy test in the trash. He very likely would have said that I can't leave Helen for 9 months--AFTER THE BABY IS BORN (without telling Alison that Helen is "pregnant"), but then AS SOON as he finds out that it's not his wife who's pregnant, it's his daughter, but that will all me "taken care of," then hooray, I'm going to start dissolving our marriage right this minute, okay?

 

Ok, I'm going to double-back on myself here. I think I do know how to watch this show. I'm just not going to follow the suggestion of this being a happy love story. But instead, you can see how these tragic occurrences do align. This would definitely be an interesting show to rewatch. I'm sure a lot of the little things like "9 months" have a lot more meaning when you have the perspective of everything that's happening from both points of view.

[Cirien]

Does anyone how to embed tweets: Cause I've found a couple of Sarah Treems tweets that make me go "Hmmm....."

 

like from here: https://twitter.com/SarahTreem/status/534847342394880001

 

In terms of Helen and Cole, keep in mind, they're someone else's memory.  You like them, but you may not be seeing all of them. #TheAffair

 

Thing is Alison and Noah's memories would biased to themselves and making themselves look the best, Which would make Cole and Helen seem like the unreasonable ones surely? And yet people like them!

These people are so tragic. I have to agree with the comments about not understanding Sarah Treem's insistence that these are happy people who had happy lives, and it's the story of these two soul mates finding love. Is she writing/producing the same show that we're watching? I almost don't know how to "watch" this show. I certainly don't see any happy ending here, so I don't like Treem's insistence that there "should" be? ("Will" be?) Or maybe that it just "was"? I suppose I need to look for this interview myself. In the meantime, I'm going to follow Noah's literature lesson last week. Noah and Alison are Romeo and Juliet. They THINK they have this deep, innocent, all-encompassing love, but there's not going to be a happily ever after for ANYONE involved here. EVERYONE is going to be destroyed in this "love story."

 

In Noah's version, he didn't tell Alison that he was leaving Helen, right? I THINK that although he had some internal debate and discussions with Max, he did NOT say anything to Alison until he left her a message on the train. Am I recalling that correctly? But, from Alison's perspective, he sweeps her off her feet with this idea of a writer's love nest and they'll be together...but, well, YOU'LL need to leave your husband and sign this 2-year lease to live in this cell of a room (complete with bars on the windows), and I'll stay with Helen for 9 more months...and then Alison thinks Helen is pregnant and assumes he'll NEVER actually leave her...and now you also won't get your ranch payday to leave Cole... But, okay, I can understand the cutting and the suicide attempt in feeling the immense pain and guilt of being told that it's YOUR FAULT that your son is dead...but sleeping with Oscar was just too much. I get that this woman is as self-destructive as they come, but that made no sense to me. Cole is still a decent husband. She was just trying to get pregnant with him, so I think she still loves him. Is it because she can't separate him from his mother? That's the only grasp at straws that I can come up with to try to make any sense of that. Or it's like a progression of the most self-destructive things that she can think of: 1) cutting, 2) suicide, 3) sleeping with Oscar. On second thought, this does sound about right.

 

And, Noah, ugh, I can't even understand where he's coming from. IF he did say that he'd leave Helen in 9 months after Whitney graduates--because somehow she's the only kid that matters or, like, maybe Bruce would make sure Noah pays for half of Whitney's private school--he couldn't even just wait 1 day until after the abortion? But, hmm. Something just occurred to me. Let's assume that they both, indeed, saw the pregnancy test in the trash. He very likely would have said that I can't leave Helen for 9 months--AFTER THE BABY IS BORN (without telling Alison that Helen is "pregnant"), but then AS SOON as he finds out that it's not his wife who's pregnant, it's his daughter, but that will all me "taken care of," then hooray, I'm going to start dissolving our marriage right this minute, okay?

 

Ok, I'm going to double-back on myself here. I think I do know how to watch this show. I'm just not going to follow the suggestion of this being a happy love story. But instead, you can see how these tragic occurrences do align. This would definitely be an interesting show to rewatch. I'm sure a lot of the little things like "9 months" have a lot more meaning when you have the perspective of everything that's happening from both points of view.

GMTA!!! I thought it was very interesting that they stressed "9 months" That's enough time for Whitney to have the baby and go off to college

[stormy weather]

THIS. Oscar is crass and can be vindictive, BUT he does care deeply for Allison in his own weird way. One of the best lines of this episode for me was Oscar's: "You're going back home to your husband . . . . what does that even mean to you?"

 

Oh I loved that. Finally, someone asks Allison the question we've all been asking ourselves since the beginning of this show. Hers and Cole's marriage makes absolutely no sense. She keeps doing whatever she wants and he keeps running after her. Why, Joshua, why? 

 

 

Speaking of, Alison came off as a greedy, selfish bitch.

 

Yes, speaking of that scene. I don't think Cherry is as evil as some of the people here think. And I'm sorry but at this point I do believe Gabriel's death was partially Allison's fault and that was just a grieving grandmother who has been bottling up resentment for quite a few years now speaking. Your child nearly drowned and can't even walk and you take him home and not to a hospital? Your own child? Well I agree with that poster that said Allison took him home because of her pride, because she is a little miss "know-it-all/want-it-all" and always thinks she knows better.

The fact that Cherry was right added to the already terrible opinion I had of Allison for barging in waving the mortgage papers and yelling she wanted her share of the money to do whatever she wanted, regardless of what Cole (her HUSBAND, I remind you) might have wanted to do with his (maybe buy a place together somewhere else? Go on a trip? Renovate the beach house?)

 

ETA: On the thought of Allison and Noah being soulmates, have we ever seen them do ANYTHING but have sex? I mean, apart from that day trip on that other island (half of which was spent in bed, anyway), have they ever spent any time together just having any conversation that touched other topics (politics, culture, music, literature...) than "I can't leave my husband/wife", "I'll leave my husband/wife", "let's find a hotel where we can shag and that's also affordable"? How can you call someone a "soulmate" when you don't know anything about him/her? It seems to me they only meet to get it on and nothing else, and when that's done, they split.

Edited December 16, 2014 by stormy weather

[Sarahendipity]

I can't find any tweet from the show runner about viewers not watching it 'right'

[Cirien]

I can't find any tweet from the show runner about viewers not watching it 'right'

MMV I'm probably reading too much into Sarah's twitter but IMO she's definitely thinks that she's and the other writers have succeeded in showing how much Noah and Alison are in love

 

Also check out the discussion here: https://twitter.com/SarahTreem/status/542973290550407168 again it's all very YMMV but....

Edited December 16, 2014 by Cirien

[JenE4]

MMV I'm probably reading too much into Sarah's twitter but IMO she's definitely thinks that she's and the other writers have succeeded in showing how much Noah and Alison are in love

Also check out the discussion here: https://twitter.com/SarahTreem/status/542973290550407168 again it's all very YMMV but....

Hmm. Since she said "still," maybe she means that she doesn't expect us to be Team Alison/Noah. That makes more sense to me! I don't see many people thinking there's a happily ever after to be found here.

[Cirien]

I dunno. Maybe we're not representative of the general population?

[Boundary]

Hmm. Since she said "still," maybe she means that she doesn't expect us to be Team Alison/Noah. That makes more sense to me! I don't see many people thinking there's a happily ever after to be found here.

 

I am one. Look, we have protagonists who aren't doing nice things at the moment. They are married to people who aren't suitable for them now and they have fallen for each other (Yes I said it!). Cole doesn't even get Alison, no doubt he loves her but if he knew, he'd let her go. Helen makes Noah feel like a fraud and it's not just about money. His lights have been dimming and she has been oblivious to it.

 

They found each and suddenly things clicked between them. If Treem says they are in love then they are in love; love isn't something you can objectively measure. However, there's anecdotal evidence. For instance, when he flipped out about drugs, first thing she did was tell Cole she wants out. The problem the show faces, at this juncture, is that Alison and Noah are faced with two bad choices: continue sneaking around or fess up and leave the spouses. Both are incredibly selfish things to do but once the decision plays out, Noah and Alison will find themselves in a better place (he writes his book, she stops being suicidal and raises another kid) but Cole and Helen and the other kids obviously don't win in this situation.

[Neurochick]

Ugh, Cherry, what a bitch of a woman.  If that was my mother in law I'd be gone or I would have killed her years ago.

 

But having said that, I still find Helen not as sympathetic as most on this board seem to find her.  I don't know why.  Because she seems entitled?  Because she lets her insufferable parents call the shots in her marriage?  I just have never warmed up to her.

 

 

I can't stand Helen.  To me she's a spoiled entitled witch.  When she told Noah, "get the fuck out of MY house."  Yes, it's your house you little rich girl, your daddy bought it for you.  Ugh, what an awful person.  She still didn't deserve to get cheated on though.

 

To me, Max was the voice of reason.  He told Noah that sure he's in love with Alison, but he loved Helen and Max loved his wife.  I think what he was trying to say  was sometimes love isn't enough.  I was surprised and shocked that Noah sprang "I'm in love with someone else" right at that moment.  I think seeing the man jump off the building changed Noah's mind.  I think he was going to go back to Helen and live with her, but sometimes when you see death like that you're like, "I'm not wasting my life, I am going to do what I want to do."  Selfish, sure it is.

 

Cole and Alison would have been fine if they'd left nasty Cherry after their son's death, and went to live somewhere else.  

 

I thought their versions were interesting.  In Noah's version they never see the apartment in Brooklyn.  In Noah's version he calls Alison and tells her he's left Helen.  In Alison's version, she tells Cole she's leaving but we don't know where she's going.  So when Cole shows up, Alison's looking at him like, "huh?" because she was supposed to meet Noah.  

[Boundary]

I can't stand Helen.  To me she's a spoiled entitled witch.  When she told Noah, "get the fuck out of MY house."  Yes, it's your house you little rich girl, your daddy bought it for you.  Ugh, what an awful person.  She still didn't deserve to get cheated on though.

 

Maura is a brilliant actress, she does so much with so little. There was that instance when Noah was telling Helen that it wasn't her fault that Whitney fell pregnant. She replied, "I know" and there's a tiny moment in Maura Tierney's face when she hardens just a touch. Helen will obviously blame Noah for a lot of things (and she's innocent of a lot of things too and doesn't deserve to be cheated on) but I imagine being Noah, having lived 20 years and facing the cumulative effect of a million of those tiny judgemental moments ... he seemed relieved to have been kicked out. Although I suppose the relief was in not having to lie anymore.

[GeminiDancer]

I thought their versions were interesting.  In Noah's version they never see the apartment in Brooklyn.  In Noah's version he calls Alison and tells her he's left Helen.  In Alison's version, she tells Cole she's leaving but we don't know where she's going.  So when Cole shows up, Alison's looking at him like, "huh?" because she was supposed to meet Noah.  

 

 

I don't think Alison ever got that message from Noah. It seemed like he was leaving a voicemail. I don't think she was ever intending on meeting Noah in her version, after the whole apartment debacle.

[blixie]

 

MMV I'm probably reading too much into Sarah's twitter

 

Mine does for sure, I just think she meant, wow if you can still root for these two a-holes you are one sorely cockeyed possibly delusional romantic. I don't think they're NOT in love, I just think Noah is a selfish shit and is incapable of really engaging with Allison as a real person beyond his fantastical muse needs, and I think Allison is still in too much pain to be thinking clearly about if she loves him independent of the escape he was providing. I think it's infatuation, like Max said, it's hard to suss out real lasting love from passionate infatuation. They definitely should not continue to be in their marriages, because both are pretty damn broke ass, and in general I find Helen and Cole more likable even with all their bitter sad partner ascribed faults.

[gameoff]

As far as the whole anal sexcapade goes, I was under the impression that they are saving that particular act for next time they rendezvous.  

 

I think Noah was getting touchy feely with her in that area and that's when she said she'd never done that before --which contradicts what she told the tarot-card reading friend/in-law or whatever she was --and the way he said he had done it before implied that he was quite familiar in doing it that way.  That's what I got out of that scene.   

[AlliMo]

I think the show is actually doing a good job of showing just how complex people and relationships really are, and I don't see anybody as being a terrible *person*. (Okay, Noah is kind of awful and Whitney is a borderline sociopath.) I see some very human people making some very bad choices, and the reasons why they might make them. I think Allison and Noah are both telling themselves that they're in love, when it's not so much that they want a different partner as much as a different life. In particular I don't fault Allison for planning to leave Cole after he got his share of the money from the ranch. It's been made pretty clear that the ranch hasn't been profitable; Allison has clearly been the one working her ass off at keeping them going while Cole pours everything back into a failing business. Allison has wanted to leave for some time now but Cole has been focused on his family and their "legacy." He might be a great guy in a lot of ways, but I don't think she's at all unreasonable in expecting a fair share of the proceeds of the sale, or in having decided that he's never going to leave so she needs to cut her losses.

[Milburn Stone]

If Noah doesn't remember that he walked Allison to the apartment he wanted her to rent for 2 years instead of letting her walk to the train station alone, I believe pretty much nothing about his perspective on what Helen did or didn't say. 

 

I'm gonna go with a version of something I said about the last episode. Of course Noah remembers apartment-hunting with Alison. If you asked him, he'd tell you that he remembers it. But it's not the most important thing to him about what went on that day. And what we see from each of them are their top-of-mind impressions of the most important events (from their own perspectives) from among the day's happenings. The things they've held on to whenever they think back to those days because they're the things that mattered/matter most to them.

Edited December 16, 2014 by Milburn Stone

[Irlandesa]

So, Alison didn't realize she left a bra behind?

She realized she left her top behind and she may have assumed the bra was in the bag with her shirt.  But I won't lie, it did cross my mind that she didn't push for the bra. 

 

Ahhh the shampoo scene. I don't know why, but I think that one bothered me the most. What a bitch! That was just vindictive. 

Yeah.  I know.  It's irrational but it felt like that little petty move was the worst thing I've seen on this show. I know it's not but it felt like it.

 

Apart from a couple of conversations (in the hospital with her grandmother as an example) I've seen no REAL love portrayed between the two main characters.

This.  I did feel they managed to bring emotion and connection into the affair which had been sorely missing for the first seven episodes of this relationship.  It made me think they may be laying the foundation for something that felt a bit more real than it had been.  I mean, I felt chemistry for the first time.  Not really romantic or sexual chemistry but at least it didn't feel forced.  And then they went way too far with the declarations of love.  The last episode should have been the start of building towards ILYs but not the actual exchange.

 

Side note: Did Noah and Alison really have anal sex? Noah's version of bed talk implied that.

I saw it differently than others here.  He was playing with her behind and she told him that wasn't something she had done before.  (Because earlier he said he wanted to do something with her that she hadn't done before.)  Then she said "next time."  So I got the impression that they didn't have anal sex but were making plans to do so.

[Higgs]

And what we see from each of them are their impressions of the most important events (from their own perspectives) from among the day's happenings. The things they've held on to and come to mind first because they were the things that mattered most to them.

Absolutely.

Furthermore, Alison's and Noah's "stories" of what each and all the other characters said and did cannot be taken as precise, objective truth, but they do provide a very fair indication of their own respective emotional states. For example, at the therapy session, Noah recollects the following crucial exchange:

H: Do you know why I married you?

N: Because you loved me?

H: I thought you were safe.

...

H: "I could have had anyone... when I was young. I'm sorry if that sounds crass, but it's true.

And I chose you. And I knew you were never gonna be president or famous or rich, but I didn't care about that, because I had a rich, famous father and he was such a fucking asshole, and you adored me. I knew you would never cheat. You wouldn't leave, and you would be a good father, and we would have a nice life, and we would grow old and die together, and everyone would talk about how lucky we are, and what a smart choice I made."

N: "Do you think any of this is news to me? ... I don't want to be the... envy of our friends. I feel like a fraud. I don't own our house. I don't even clothe our kids."

"Safe", not "love", was all she could muster, even when prompted. From Noah's perspective, Helen seemed to have calculated that a scholarship English major, with no great talent or ambition that she could detect, would be more grateful, and hence more "safe". (What she had not taken into account is that a husband who resembles Dominic West is never, ever, really "safe".) All this tells us is how Noah felt about his marriage, not about the precise words Helen might have used in the session or what she really thought. The point is not whether his feelings were right or wrong, true or false, justified or deluded, they just were, and had been like that for a very long time. That Noah hadn't ever protested was his failure; that Helen hadn't ever noticed, or if she had noticed, hadn't cared, was hers.

Similarly, Noah's recollections about Helen's attitude with respect to waiting staff reflect his feelings of resentment, not so much about how she regarded Alison, where her sneering condescension arose from understandable rage, but about what it suggested as to how she regarded his waitress mother, and, by extension, he feared, himself.

Edited December 16, 2014 by Higgs

[Blakeston]

I'm gonna go with a version of something I said about the last episode. Of course Noah remembers apartment-hunting with Alison. If you asked him, he'd tell you that he remembers it. But it's not the most important thing to him about what went on that day. And what we see from each of them are their top-of-mind impressions of the most important events (from their own perspectives) from among the day's happenings. The things they've held on to whenever they think back to those days because they're the things that mattered/matter most to them.

 

I agree that the lack of an apartment-hunting scene in Noah's half of the episode doesn't mean that Noah doesn't remember it at all.

 

I don't even think it necessarily means that the apartment-hunting wasn't important to Noah.

 

I think it just comes down to the show's time constraints, and the desire to prevent the viewers from getting bored. If we see a Noah/Alison scene from Alison's perspective, they're not going to show us the same scene from Noah's perspective unless it's different from Alison's in a major, significant way that would hold the audience's attention.

[Muffyn]

I rewatched the episode.  I believe I am starting a new career critiquing sex scenes.  In Alison's memory of the sex, the focus was on Noah saying, "I love you".  She asks him to repeat it.  In Noah's recollection, he slows down and she asks him "what's wrong?"  He says I want to do something you've never done with anyone else before.  She then says, "I'm yours" which gets him all hot and bothered.  He asks her to repeat it several times.  When they're lying next to each other, he starts playing with her ass.  She says, "I've never done that before."  He queries, "No?"  She asks, "Have you?"  He says "yeah", and she says "Next time."  So Irlandesa nailed it.  They were making anal plans for the next go around.  Of course this was prior to his thinking Helen was pregnant.  In Noah's recollection, he tells Alison he loves her when she's leaving. 

[Texasmom1970]

If the goal is to make me despise the main characters done. Can't stand Noah or Allison, let them be together. Cole and Helen are better off without them both! Drug dealer or not I would take Cole. I actually see him and Helen trying to work through what their cheating spouses have done.

Where with Noah and Alison are being selfish continuing their affair while still married. If they really love and can't live without each other, Gag, then be adults and get a divorce. I guarantee its like his friend said Noah is caught up in the juvenile excitement. If he were married to Alison he wouldn't be so hot for her, no mystery, no chase, just reality.

[blixie]

 

I think Allison and Noah are both telling themselves that they're in love, when it's not so much that they want a different partner as much as a different life.

 

This exactly right, but also speaks to why I can't agree Noah isn't a terrible person. Noah and Allie's life situations are VERY different. Allie has no obligations but to Cole ,the different life she wants is one not walled in by grief, and I do believe she and Cole may have a shot if they get the hell out of that town, away from his family. But Noah goes out of his way to talk about parenthood, how Helen is great at it and he's terrible at it, and oh by the way he doesn't want this life he's in love with someone else. Implicit in his different life is one without his obligation to parent those four kids, cause he's so totes bad at it mmkay Helen? If you are anxious to and actively plan to abandon your children, then you are an ASSHOLE,no matter how sociopathic they may be! He can take comfort in the fact that Helen isn't going to fuck off like him or say...Athena? I kind of wish that had been her response, you know what NO you STAY take care of the kids I'm going to Bali. See you in a month.

[RimaTheBirdGirl]

I'd like to propose a paean to Oscar's pancakes, and what they purport.  'Cause, man, nothing says, "I am too paying attention to you after sex," like pancakes.   Frackin' maternal. 

In fact, Oscar was so far on the human side of the troll-human continuum, that he was almost unrecognizable in this episode.  (“I blackmailed him . . . for you” being a delicious exception.)

 

And we also learned that Oscar:

 

• is now permanently separated from his former wife/lover, and has his own, independent digs
• and his bowling alley plans are coming right along.

 

I'm gonna' spitball, and say Alison marries Oscar.  His sudden humanity in this episode, and the baby-making, were just enough to make that happen.  Hence her well-groomed state, in the Pokey-the-Detective future.  Hence her Cole-lessness yet beringed finger.  Hence the distinction between her married status, and Noah's.   And her brittleness and profound unhappiness, in that future.

 

(And maybe even a resentment of her child?  ("Detective, I have to go pick up my kid."  That "kid" was spat out as if it were the word "Waitress."))

 

Also: ew.  

Edited December 16, 2014 by RimaTheBirdGirl

[blixie]

Ahhh you are disturbing my calm with that speculation. Also I don't perceive Allie as unhappy in the future, in fact she seems pretty content, just agitated by questioning. I hope she marries Max instead though, I would love to see him put the moves on Allison and be all in YOUR FACE SOLLOWAY.

[cardigirl]

If you are anxious to and actively plan to abandon your children, then you are an ASSHOLE,no matter how sociopathic they may be! He can take comfort in the fact that Helen isn't going to fuck off like him or say...Athena? I kind of wish that had been her response, you know what NO you STAY take care of the kids I'm going to Bali. See you in a month.

 

I love this!  My mom used to say that if my father ever wanted a divorce he could have all five of us kids and she'd be off to France!  She was (mostly) joking but I always thought it was a smart idea!

 

And honestly, when in the throes of a new infatuation (which is what an affair is) reality messes big time with the entire idea that one can start over like the first relationship never happened. They are so blinded by the infatuation that nothing else matters.  Not the kids, not the history with their partner, nothing.

[Constantinople]

I don't understand why Max gets paired with every girl/woman over the age of 15:  Max & Whitney, Max & Helen, Max & Alison.  If it hasn't already happened, it's just a matter of time before Max gets paired with Athena, Cherry or Margaret.

 

As far as I can tell, Max is just Noah's "There but for the grace of God, go I" reminder, except Noah's too stupid to understand that.

[Neurochick]

I think this show really "shows" that sometimes you marry a person, not because of who they are, but because of what they represent or what you think they have. 

 

Noah married Helen because he wanted love and his own family was in shambles; Helen married Noah because she saw an introvert who wouldn't cheat on her.  Alison probably married Cole because her own mother, Athena, was running around and to Alison, Cole represented stability.  I think Cole actually married Alison because he loved HER, but he just doesn't get her.  Cole's not a bad guy, but he just doesn't get his wife.  

 

What's happening now is you can't be with people because of what they represent, or their status, because things change and life is about being with someone day to day.  Helen was pissed with Noah cheated on her because, not totally because he was unfaithful in their marriage, but because Helen's expectations of Noah were dashed.  However, Noah was pissed at Helen and probably has been all along, because she really didn't represent what he wanted.  What I'm saying is that both Helen and Noah wanted illusions and what they got were real people who probably should have gone their separate ways a while ago.  

Edited December 16, 2014 by Neurochick

[jrlr]

I'd like to propose a paean to Oscar's pancakes, and what they purport.  'Cause, man, nothing says, "I am too paying attention to you after sex," like pancakes.   Frackin' maternal. 

In fact, Oscar was so far on the human side of the troll-human continuum, that he was almost unrecognizable in this episode.  (“I blackmailed him . . . for you” being a delicious exception.)

 

And we also learned that Oscar:

 

• is now permanently separated from his former wife/lover, and has his own, independent digs
• and his bowling alley plans are coming right along.

 

I'm gonna' spitball, and say Alison marries Oscar.  His sudden humanity in this episode, and the baby-making, were just enough to make that happen.  Hence her well-groomed state, in the Pokey-the-Detective future.  Hence her Cole-lessness yet beringed finger.  Hence the distinction between her married status, and Noah's.   And her brittleness and profound unhappiness, in that future.

 

(And maybe even a resentment of her child?  ("Detective, I have to go pick up my kid."  That "kid" was spat out as if it were the word "Waitress."))

 

Also: ew.  

If the future Alison - the one we see with the detective - is married to anyone, it can't be Oscar, because she says she needs to get back to the city and I don't see Oscar abandoning his big-fish-in-a-little-pond status as a successful Montauk businessman to live in the city.

[blixie]

 

I don't understand why Max gets paired with every girl/woman over the age of 15:

 

Because he's really very attractive and his character seems to have learned Life Lessons. The actor reminds me of Ray Stevenson so...yeah. I was pretty much kidding about him hooking up with Allison though. I just think it's likely he is part of the *future* storyline somehow someway and my assumption is that's via either Helen or Allison, rather than a continuing friendship with Noah in which he ignores everything you have ever told him and likes to ask you for money he could never pay you back. Max needs to re-evaluate that friendship.

[stillshimpy]

(And maybe even a resentment of her child?  ("Detective, I have to go pick up my kid."  That "kid" was spat out as if it were the word "Waitress."))

 

Yes, that's something that caught my ear too, back when it happened.  That's part of the reason I wondered if she was working as a Nanny or something.  She said "kid" like I wouldn't say "dog".  Her tone also didn't pair with any of the mentions of Gabriel, which is part of the reason it caught my ear.  Maybe due to the circumstances (being questioned in a crime) she sounded like that, but it was still odd enough to notice.  

 

Oscar was odd in this episode -- side note: we just adopted another dog and named him Oscar for reasons unrelated to this, so I feel super weird about the character's name --  because it was the first time I got the sense that he actually really cared about Alison on some level, vs. just living to sexually harass and demean her.  

 

Since the sex between them had to serve some story purpose -- that Alison was so disheartened by Noah's long, slow plan to leave his wife, giving him plenty of time to get over his infatuation with her, while she was stored in that tupperware-sized apartment -- she decided to treat herself as only being worth being someone's boink-buddy.  That all made emotional sense from what we've seen of Alison's character.  

 

What made less sense was that it clearly unleashed whatever resembles a human being in Oscar's breast, because even after she's busy rejecting the pancakes, he's telling her to take the truck.  Alison seems to have money in the future.  Maybe that is due to Noah's "soon to be a major motion picture" future, but it looks like Oscar is actually poised to be successful with his freaking bowling alley.  Here they actually dropped a couple of hints that he might have far more tender feelings for Alison than I would have previous guessed. 

 

It was also revealed that Alison is a lot more mercenary than I thought she was.  As horrid as I found Cherry to be -- I don't care what someone is doing, short of extortion or murder -- you do not throw someone's dead child in their face that way.   Period.  End of story.  Someone else's bad actions never justify stooping that low.  Tormenting Alison that way was an evil act, no matter what.  

 

I can't blame Cherry for being angry with Alison.  That ranch belonged to Cole's family, it's not her consolation prize for a failed marriage and a lost child, but by the same token she wasn't trying to emotionally destroy Cherry there.  Cherry was trying to emotionally savage her and with the most unconscionable of weapons, particularly being wielded by a fellow parent.  

[Boundary]

 Max needs to re-evaluate that friendship.

 

Max is a best friend, he offers advice even though it might not be palatable. Remember it's Noah who went to confide in him. The fact that your friend doesn't always listen your advice doesn't mean you ditch them, especially when they are going through an emotional crisis. Max has gone through the experience that Noah is going through and he believes that he made a mistake. Noah happens not believe he's making the same mistake. The proof of the pudding is in the eating, only time will tell whether Noah is correct that he's in love with Alison. I actually liked Max's advice that Noah should wait, that if it's real then Alison will give him time. But it's Noah who was working with a fast time table, Alison never asked Noah to leave his wife, he is the one who raised it. Max should offer advice, then support Noah regardless of his decision. That's what best friends should do (and I do hope it's not later revealed that Max is having an affair with Helen, that would damage such a fine character. It's not everyday one sees reasonable best friends on tv).

[taragel]

They did make Max a regular for season two, so he has to have some bigger part in the proceedings than Noah's oft-ignored sounding board.

Edited December 16, 2014 by taragel

[Neurochick]

I can't blame Cherry for being angry with Alison.  That ranch belonged to Cole's family, it's not her consolation prize for a failed marriage and a lost child, but by the same token she wasn't trying to emotionally destroy Cherry there.  Cherry was trying to emotionally savage her and with the most unconscionable of weapons, particularly being wielded by a fellow parent.

 

 

I can.  Her kids are drug dealers and she supports it.  What a witch.  She's no different than that kid's mother in The Wire who wanted her son to deal drugs, even though the street wasn't in him, and the only reason the kid got out, was because his father basically threatened his mother with no more $$$, if she didn't let their son be adopted and maybe have a different life.  

Edited December 16, 2014 by Neurochick