S07.E13: Papa's Goods

[sunshine2288]

I was okay with the finale, it wasn't the best I'd ever seen but it definitely wasn't the worst. Jax dying wasn't shocking, given what he'd become over the last season it seemed the natural end. I admit I felt bummed each time I saw an ad for the finale and they showed scenes from the first season. It reminded me of why I loved this show in the first place and it made it easier to ignore the parts I haven't liked over the past few years. The sadness I felt watching the finale was because Season 1 Jax was fresh in my mind and watching all the people who loved him realize his plan was heartbreaking.

 

Now that it's all said and done I kinda wish Gemma would have lived. Dying in the garden was a kinder end than if she'd had to go through losing another child. Especially when his death was pretty much set in motion by her lies.

[terrymct]

Jax was supposed to be "as smart as he is dangerous."  

 

And thus the fundamental problem with this season and the one in Belfast.  Jax Teller was dumb as a box of hair.  Nice rear end, though.

[ryebread]

Killing himself was not an act of courage - if Sutter had studied his bible instead of just 'biblical movie imagery', he'd know that Jesus (arguably) allowed himself to be taken and killed by his enemies, and forgave them for it.  Not not not trying to instigate a religious discussion here, just saying.  

Not the place to do so, but a religious discussion would be a beautiful disaster.

 

Allegedly, the 3 wise men followed a star to Jerusalem to worship the child king.  In the Bible, the ancients called this star the "wandering star" also known as "Venus".

 

Coincidence or more of Sutter's biblical movie imagery?

 

I didn't watch the Afterwords. Did Sutter address any of this imagery?

[Ottis]

I didn't watch the Afterwords. Did Sutter address any of this imagery?

 

 

I tried to watch the afterwards, twice, and I couldn't do it. It's so grating. There is a lot of haha, insider stuff ("many late nights and bottles of tequila") that are not interesting and make no sense (you needed late nights and alcohol to write scripts?), and not enough actual information about what we saw on the screen. They never got the afterwards thing right, IMO.

 

I rewatched the last few minutes last night and everyone was driving even slower than I remembered it. And I think they made a mistake having Jax pull off the handlebars and drift into the path of the truck so far in advance. At those slow speeds (and going slower with no throttle), he would have been hurt but also could have survived. Plus, for viewers there was no shock to it. He should have been going faster and moved quickly into the lane with arms out. Just a weird sequence that undermined itself.

 

That slow police chase......was actually pretty accurate.

 

 

And pretty comical. In all that time they followed Jax, and that many cops showed up behind him, not one of those cops would be coming from the other direction and be able to get *ahead* of Jax? Normal procedure in a car chase is to box in and slow down. Jax never showed any speed or attempt to get away. Why didn't they try to box him in? They were swerving into the oncoming lane enough (I laughed every time they showed the cops swerving back and forth behind him, like they really wanted to speed up but were told not to do it).

Edited December 11, 2014 by Ottis

[eurekagirl mOo]

Oh how I will miss you show. I didn't see the bread and wine as Jesus imagery at all but rather as Alice in Wonderland- Drink Me, Eat Me. Maybe that just says more about me?

I always loved Gemma. Even when she was awful she never thought it was awful. She did what she had to do to protect her family and "her" club. I loved Red Rose and her death in the garden. She had a hard life and she found peace in the end. Good for her.

That after show was a hot mess. All Sutter could talk about was how drunk he was and how he "needed a meeting" UH if your drunk and in recovery you need more then a meeting- you need rehab. And for a man who makes his living with words his favorite word is UH. He must say UH 10 times in every sentence.

I will agree the CGI of Jax "hitting" the truck was sooooo bad. It was like 1970 level bad. Took me right out of the moment.

Not the best ending but not he worst. 6 feet under will always be the gold star winner for that!

[Boilergal]

Since they already went with super sized episode full of warm fuzzies and symbolism - they could have gone an extra five minutes, Jax entering Heaven into the loving arms of everyone that was killed through the seasons. 

[eurekagirl mOo]

I never did like Unser. You're a cop. There criminals. Stay out of the life don't park your dam mobile home in there parking lot and go along with everything then cry at the end "I'm arresting you!" when you've been part of the life all along. (Can a retired cop still arrest people?) Yep that's "all you had" Your choice Unser-You hang around them, you die like them,your choice. I only wih Jax had shot him 4 seasons ago!

[Guest Accused Dingo]

I never did like Unser. You're a cop. There criminals. Stay out of the life don't park your dam mobile home in there parking lot and go along with everything then cry at the end "I'm arresting you!" when you've been part of the life all along. (Can a retired cop still arrest people?) Yep that's "all you had" Your choice Unser-You hang around them, you die like them,your choice. I only wih Jax had shot him 4 seasons ago!

.

I think that was ultimately the point of lady cop (whose name escapes me at the moment). Like Jax, Unsers trajectory was a given given his choices.....by severing her ties to the club lady cop was choosing a new fate.

[Maximona]

Huh.  Did we actually get to see Jax smashed by the truck?  Watch Michael Chiklis scraping him off the windshield?  I confess, the finale didn't hold my interest enough to watch closely.

 

If not, I'd say there was deliberate ambiguity so Sutter can test the waters for Da Movie a year or so from now when he's over the hangover.

 

Yeah, yeah, yeah -- bread and wine.  Christ symbolism!  (Yawn.)  Kinda out of place when we've been force fed the notion for the past seven seasons that Jax is really Hamlet.

 

I did enjoy the much more elegant symbolism of a "murder of crows," though.

[Lambie]

But was that property in OR Jax’ to give?  Gemma’s dad is still alive.

 

 

I don't know how it's still Gemma's dad's house. He didn't have a child caretaker living with him so Medicaid would have taken it to pay for his care unless he had a shit-ton of money and was paying for his own long-term care. My grandmother was in an assisted living facility about 8 months before the cost of her care exceeded her assets.

 

Small point, I know, but it's one more thing for me to be angry about with the writing of this crap finale.

[Chaos Theory]

In the end Tara does win even if she does it from the grave.

Her boys are safe away from the club which is all she ever really wanted......

So...ha!

Tara wins!

[Duke2801]

During the entire low-speed chase, I kept thinking of OJ Simpson.

 

 

Ha ha.  Mr. Duke said the same thing!  Although I have to give it up to the poster who made the "Cartman on his Big Wheel chase" reference.  A tip of the motorcycle helmet to you, my friend!

 

I found the finale somewhere between "meh" and "ehhh...ok I guess."  BUT considering how truly terrible I have found season 7 to be, that's a definite improvement! Glad Nero and Wendy got away with the kids, and that we got to hear him admit what a shitty dad and person in general he turned out to be.  I liked the homeless ghost/angel lady making one final appearance.  

 

The Aftershow was... weird? I think Charlie did the best he could, considering how awkward the setup was. I enjoyed that montage (of COURSE there had to be a montage) of Jax that they put together.  Man, he looked like *such* a baby in those first couple seasons!

 

I also find it SO odd that there was no appearances, videos, or even mentions of Ron Perlman and Maggie Siff.  I have to think there must have been some tension or fallout there.  Or perhaps they just don't worship at the alter of Sutter?  I mean, they were 2 *major* characters.  To leave them out of the final episode wrap-up seems just weird, almost disrespectful (unless it was of their own choosing, in which case---oh well!)

[jrlr]

Ha ha.  Mr. Duke said the same thing!  Although I have to give it up to the poster who made the "Cartman on his Big Wheel chase" reference.  A tip of the motorcycle helmet to you, my friend!

 

I found the finale somewhere between "meh" and "ehhh...ok I guess."  BUT considering how truly terrible I have found season 7 to be, that's a definite improvement! Glad Nero and Wendy got away with the kids, and that we got to hear him admit what a shitty dad and person in general he turned out to be.  I liked the homeless ghost/angel lady making one final appearance.  

 

The Aftershow was... weird? I think Charlie did the best he could, considering how awkward the setup was. I enjoyed that montage (of COURSE there had to be a montage) of Jax that they put together.  Man, he looked like *such* a baby in those first couple seasons!

 

I also find it SO odd that there was no appearances, videos, or even mentions of Ron Perlman and Maggie Siff.  I have to think there must have been some tension or fallout there.  Or perhaps they just don't worship at the alter of Sutter?  I mean, they were 2 *major* characters.  To leave them out of the final episode wrap-up seems just weird, almost disrespectful (unless it was of their own choosing, in which case---oh well!)

I didn't watch the aftershow - I barely made it through this cartoonish season.  But I agree that it was really strange that Ron Perlman and Maggie Siff seem to have disappeared from Sutter's world view, Charming style.  And I highly doubt either of those actors would choose not to be acknowledged at the finale since they both spent five or six years of their lives working on the show.

[ryebread]

Huh.  Did we actually get to see Jax smashed by the truck?  Watch Michael Chiklis scraping him off the windshield?  I confess, the finale didn't hold my interest enough to watch closely.

 

If not, I'd say there was deliberate ambiguity so Sutter can test the waters for Da Movie a year or so from now when he's over the hangover.

 

Jesus, allegedly, was resurrected after 3 days.  Come this Friday night at around 11:00 EST, Jax should be good to go.

[Ottis]

Jesus, allegedly, was resurrected after 3 days.  Come this Friday night at around 11:00 EST, Jax should be good to go.

 

 

"Jesus Christ."

[BigBlueMastiff]

 

And I actually thought the crows were eating Jax's brain on the side of the road.

I thought i was the only one who thought this, until I realized it was homeless l woman's bread. ;)

[millennium]

Vanity Fair dismisses SOA finale as "a worn out metaphor."

 

http://www.vanityfair.com/vf-hollywood/2014/12/sons-of-anarchy-series-finale-jax-dies

[Guest Accused Dingo]

My final thoughts on the Final Ride:

 

I liked it.

 

I am well aware that I might be in the minority here but I thought the final season did a reasonable job ending the series.  It was not the best but it was not the worst either.  When it comes down to it I think Sons of Anarchy is squarely in the upper center of series finales.   The final bunch of episodes (and final season as a whole) did everything it should and said it would do.  

 

Now again, I am well aware that plenty of people were not happy with Gemma's fate.  I was.  If Gemma was to die....this is how I wanted her to die.  This is not a made for tv special where we all learn a valuable lesson about life and how to be better people.  This is a gritty brutal show about bad people doing bad things.  If Jax had done anything other then what he did it would have gone completely against his character.  If Gemma had done anything other then what she did it would have gone completely against her character.  So unless the show suddenly became a Disney after school special there was really no other way to end Gemma then how they ended Gemma.  

 

As for Jax......I think his fate was set in motion the moment Tara died and Gemma lied.  Honestly if I really want to be gloomy I'd say his fate was set the moment he was born but I still hold out hope for Abel and Tommy so with people like Nero (who as always a good man unlike Jax, Gemma, and Glay who where were never really good people) and Wendy (Who became a good person by each good decision she made despite herself or for her son) they can be set on a better path without violence and death.  I think by the end Jax realized his path had been decided.  He was near its end and like Juice and Gemma all he had left was to chose the place and moment to end it.

 

I know people are nitpicking things like the Cabin but I don't see the point.  The Cabin was there.  Does it really matter why?  Maybe Gemma paid for it.   It was a good moment and a good visual which is what the story was going for.  I liked the visual .  I thought it worked and I thought the moment worked...just liked I thought the moment worked with Juice and the Nazi (again I forget his name.)  Juice is a guy who never really got any positive reinforcement.  Gemma told that to Tara once.  It is the irony of ironies that the man who raped him and murdered him was the last voice in his head was the one who finally told him he did good.   And Jax.  Whether the show was going for Hamlet or Jesus or something in between....does it really matter?  Both kind of work.  A man dying for his sins and dying for the sins of others.  I really did like the final song at the end and it made me cry.  I even bought it on iTunes I liked it so much.  Hell if any song fit with the theme of Sons of Anarchy it is "Come Join The Murder."

 

This may have never been the best show ever but I still maintain it is better then most give it credit for and it has always been highly underrated.  I will miss it and I plan to watch the whole thing when the final season gets put on netflix streaming.  

 

So there is my final review of Sons of Anarchy.  

 

 

<----Edited for clarity and spelling.  

Edited December 11, 2014 by Accused Dingo

[Bandolero]

As much as I hated the violence in the last two seasons... I did enjoy the final episode and felt bereft when it was over. I have been with this show since the beginning and knew that Jax and Gemma had to die. I felt that it would have been more powerful and fitting if Chibbs had shot him in the head vs suicide by truck. 

 

I get brotherly love and all that but I think that "true" brothers would have at least tried to intervene when they realized that Jax was going off the rails. These guys just followed him like blind fools while he self-destructed himself and the club. That to me is inconceivable. I feel like his "brothers" are as much to blame as Jax for how all of this turned out. 

 

I must say Jax is still one helluva of a swaggering sexy guy. He played the hell out of that role.

 

Disappointed that Althea was really that kind of fool. Always thought that she had some master plan but alas that was not the case... she was seriously being bribed and fucked by the club for no good reason. Pity.

[Chaos Theory]

 

Disappointed that Althea was really that kind of fool. Always thought that she had some master plan but alas that was not the case... she was seriously being bribed and fucked by the club for no good reason. Pity.

 

I think Althea was a mirror into Unser past with the club.  She made the same or similar choices he did only she literally got into bed with the club instead of just figuratively getting into bed with them.  We only saw the long term effects of a life of being connected to the Club.  By the time the show started Unser had already made his bed and was sleeping in it.   Unser was never able to get out from under the club.  In the end they were all he had left.   In the end it was the club that killed him.  Unser was the future of what happens when a cop gets entwined with the club.   Althea is the present.  The early days when it is all sex and money.  When all you can see is the benefits it brings.  Where the idea of having ties to the club brings with it the mistaken impression they will tell you the truth or at least curtail the violence.  It is a mistake thought.  Unser and Althea both meant well and both thought that being on friendly terms with the club would curtail the violence but in the end they both realized the truth but by the time Unser did he was far to deep to get out but Althea wasn't.  She was able to cut her ties to the club and become the cop she was supposed to be.  That was her last scene.  Putting out an APB on Jax.  I think that scene was meant to show that she had chosen her job over the club something that Unser was never able to do.  

Edited December 12, 2014 by Chaos Theory

[Insomnia]

Which makes the whole "If you really love me you'll fuck me on my cop car while one of your Outlaw brothers watches." all the more weird.

 

I fully expected Chibbs to say that No, it was because she still had feelings for him, not the other way around. I'm glad he went with the threat though. It didn't need to be said, it was so obvious. Should the show have gone on, I doubt she would have chosen her job over the club for very long.

[NoWillToResist]

I call bullshit on Patterson not turning up in Charming until now. She "heard" about all the carnage but stayed away? Really?

 

But...Jax said that the real identity of Tara's murderer couldn't get out because it would damage the club. So why did he go ON RECORD and tell Patterson? What's she supposed to do now? Reveal the truth and then the current Sons get roasted by everyone?

 

Am I supposed to believe that the Irish Kings and whoever will take over Marks' role, and the non-local Chinese gangs will just shrug and be all "oh well, whatever. Guess we'll let the Sons off the hook for all their murdering of our people over NOTHING"?

 

I don't know. It didn't read quite that way to me. Maybe I'm just an eternal optimist and hope that things work out for those kids. I think it could be interpreted as that Abel represented the only real way to change the club for the better, and that is, to end it, to break that cycle.

 

It could also become a symbol, later on, of not being defined by the sins of the father.

 

I thought the fact that the ring said "SON" was meant to symbolize the blood ties, not the club, so I didn't read anything insidious by it either.

 

At first I was really mad about the selfishness of Jax ruining that tomato hauler's life and putting the guilt of killing a person on him,

 

I'm hoping he'll be all "I killed a violent murderer who was on the run from the cops? Sweet!"  :)

 

And a world of 'word' to those complaining that Jax was able to merrily go about his Charming Death Tour 2014 with not a single hitch. No media were outside the courthouse while rich businessman Augustus Marks was being released on bail? No one wanted to get a comment from him on the charges against him? Really? Just a totally empty set of steps upon which a "vagrant" can perch without being told by security to move along. Bah,

 

I can't believe after all that's happened, they still act like it's a fun honor to be patched in. Who the hell would want in on that club??!!

 

Right? They're broke, on most gangs' shit list, have lost their last two Presidents to non-natural deaths with another one in progress, and have lost how many of their patched members in the last couple years? What the fuck?

 

Nero, Wendy and the boys got the hell outta there and that was my main hope. Honestly, I had stopped giving a shit about all the other characters so I don't even care what happens to them now. I'm just glad it's done. I made it to the end. Nice to see Jax realize that he's a fucking terrible human being. A fucking terrible human being with a nice butt and lovely eyes, but a fucking terrible human being nonetheless.

 

I would have liked to have seen Wendy's reaction to hearing from Nero about everything that happened with Tara/Gemma etc. That would have been interesting...

[Ottis]

I don't know. It didn't read quite that way to me. Maybe I'm just an eternal optimist and hope that things work out for those kids. I think it could be interpreted as that Abel represented the only real way to change the club for the better, and that is, to end it, to break that cycle.

It could also become a symbol, later on, of not being defined by the sins of the father.

I thought the fact that the ring said "SON" was meant to symbolize the blood ties, not the club, so I didn't read anything insidious by it either.

 

 

All of which *could* be true, but the way it was done makes it anywhere from unclear to unlikely. Why not, as some have posted, have a shot of Abel losing the ring as he played with it, and he and Wendy and Nero drive on? That would have been symbolic of leaving the past behind. Why use a SOA ring if the idea is to show Abel's future breaking from the club? The fact it is SOA indicates a lingering tie, not a break. And given we just watched seven seasons of a son of a Son trying to break away unsuccessfully, the context of showing the son of a son of a Son as he drives away, fiddling with a Sons ring, isn't hope and happiness. The way it was shown, it was like the end of a horror movie, where you think the alien creature has been killed and then you see it had an offspring. Dun-dun-dunnnnnnn.

 

Sutter did this a lot, especially in season seven. There were some nice paths to take that would have made for a tight, clear story, and he muddled them up time after time so that the actual meaning was unclear. The only meaning that seems consistent is that these people "are who they are" and couldn't change, and their fates were destined. Unlike Chucky, I don't accept that.

Edited December 12, 2014 by Ottis

[gesundheit]

I would have liked to have seen Wendy's reaction to hearing from Nero about everything that happened with Tara/Gemma etc. That would have been interesting...

Don't be silly now! Wendy is a lady-person who never murdered anyone and doesn't live by biker code, why does what she thinks/feels matter at all?

[NoWillToResist]

All of which *could* be true, but the way it was done makes it anywhere from unclear to unlikely. Why not, as some have posted, have a shot of Abel losing the ring as he played with it, and he and Wendy and Nero drive on? That would have been symbolic of leaving the past behind. Why use a SOA ring if the idea is to show Abel's future breaking from the club? The fact it is SOA indicates a lingering tie, not a break. And given we just watched seven seasons of a son of a Son trying to break away unsuccessfully, the context of showing the son of a son of a Son as he drives away, fiddling with a Sons ring, isn't hope and happiness. The way it was shown, it was like the end of a horror movie, where you think the alien creature has been killed and then you see it had an offspring. Dun-dun-dunnnnnnn.

 

Sutter did this a lot, especially in season seven. There were some nice paths to take that would have made for a tight, clear story, and he muddled them up time after time so that the actual meaning was unclear. The only meaning that seems consistent is that these people "are who they are" and couldn't change, and their fates were destined. Unlike Chucky, I don't accept that.

 

Oh, I'm not trying to say that those who think the ring was meant to symbolize that it was too late for Abel were wrong; just that I didn't see it that way when it aired. I see where others are coming from though.

 

Also, while I agree that the whole "this is who we are" and Jax saying "I can't change" suggest predestination in a way, I thought the show also addressed the alternative when Jax was talking to his dad's rock. It WAS too late for Jax. He grew up in the life and his mother was determined to raise him and keep him in that life. She was utterly blind to its poison; Jax (finally!) isn't. Abel is only 5. Yes, he's seen some shit, but he will be physically well away from the life, being raised by two people who want NOTHING to do with the club and its ways, and are also supportive of getting Abel into therapy. That, to me, shows that Abel has a very good chance of a normal life.

 

I think Abel's fate was left open to interpretation. Thinking the pull of "daddy and grandma" will inevitably draw Abel back to that life OR that Abel has been given the chance that Jax never had at a normal life are both feasible readings, IMO.

Edited December 12, 2014 by NoWillToResist

[Duke2801]

Charming Death Tour 2014

 

 

OMG.  Cackling at my desk.  Too good.

 

I didn't watch the aftershow - I barely made it through this cartoonish season.  But I agree that it was really strange that Ron Perlman and Maggie Siff seem to have disappeared from Sutter's world view, Charming style.  And I highly doubt either of those actors would choose not to be acknowledged at the finale since they both spent five or six years of their lives working on the show.

 

Totally.  OH and I just realized that Bobby didn't make any appearances on the after show either!  Or did he and I totally missed it?

[eurekagirl mOo]

Bobby Elvis was on the first aftershow. Don't worry you didn't miss anything-It was awful.

[Ottis]

but he will be physically well away from the life, being raised by two people who want NOTHING to do with the club and its ways, and are also supportive of getting Abel into therapy. That, to me, shows that Abel has a very good chance of a normal life.

I think Abel's fate was left open to interpretation. Thinking the pull of "daddy and grandma" will inevitably draw Abel back to that life OR that Abel has been given the chance that Jax never had at a normal life are both feasible readings, IMO.

 

 

I can see that, except ...  we already know that Wendy and Nero tried to get out of that life before, and both fell back into it. Wendy, especially, seems to have arrived at a point where she knows that life is dangerous, but it is where she belongs. Nero tried to get out a couple of times, and the club, and Gemma, brought him back. So why do we think they will now stay away? You can argue that Nero reached the breaking point with Gemma and her lies and what they caused, so now he is finally ready to stay away. I can see that, though he doesn't seem angry or detemined so much as resigned. But Wendy, from our perspective as viewers, doesn't even know what happened as the series ends. So we have no idea what her reaction will be or subsequent path. We can *assume* they will both be pushed away, but we don't know. And so why, then, give Abel a Sons ring that he has in his hand as they drive off? Why not have him drop it into the dirt, never to be found again? That's what I mean by Sutter being so muddled. Just that small change with the ring would make the POV more clear that the folks in the car driving to the farm are escaping. Which would also make Jax's suicide more of a sacrifice than it appeared.  

 

I can see your point. I'm just saying Sutter could have done this so much better.

[NoWillToResist]

I can see that, except ...  we already know that Wendy and Nero tried to get out of that life before, and both fell back into it. Wendy, especially, seems to have arrived at a point where she knows that life is dangerous, but it is where she belongs. Nero tried to get out a couple of times, and the club, and Gemma, brought him back. So why do we think they will now stay away?

 

Well, Nero was getting out, whether Gemma was coming or not.  And she's dead now (and Jax) so there is nothing to interest Nero in Charming.

 

As for Wendy, she was clean, employed and stable until Jax forced drugs on her again. She has consistently acknowledged that the club is poison and, while she acknowledged that she loved Jax, she couldn't/wouldn't be with him. Personally, I think she stuck around for Abel and Thomas. She and Tara were trying to get the boys free. With Jax and Gema dead, Wendy can finally get them out. She had no right/claim to do so until now; the best she could do was be there for the boys and inject as much love, support and stability as she was allowed.

 

Was Sutter asked what his intention was behind the scene with the ring? Perhaps he wanted it to be ambiguous?

[Captanne]

Finally had a chance to see the finale.  I have been with the show since the very first episode and saw every, single one.  I will miss this show as a part of my life and I have thoroughly enjoyed the ride.

 

In a strong episode in a powerful series, Chibs stood out to me as the best of the best.  Both the character and the actor were completely on target -- particularly in the scene where he gave Lt. Farry her "welcome to reality" warning and then, sitting alone at the head of the SAMCRO table.  Love.

Edited December 12, 2014 by Captanne

[Chaos Theory]

I can see that, except ... we already know that Wendy and Nero tried to get out of that life before, and both fell back into it. Wendy, especially, seems to have arrived at a point where she knows that life is dangerous, but it is where she belongs. Nero tried to get out a couple of times, and the club, and Gemma, brought him back. So why do we think they will now stay away? You can argue that Nero reached the breaking point with Gemma and her lies and what they caused, so now he is finally ready to stay away. I can see that, though he doesn't seem angry or detemined so much as resigned. But Wendy, from our perspective as viewers, doesn't even know what happened as the series ends. So we have no idea what her reaction will be or subsequent path. We can *assume* they will both be pushed away, but we don't know. And so why, then, give Abel a Sons ring that he has in his hand as they drive off? Why not have him drop it into the dirt, never to be found again? That's what I mean by Sutter being so muddled. Just that small change with the ring would make the POV more clear that the folks in the car driving to the farm are escaping. Which would also make Jax's suicide more of a sacrifice than it appeared.

I can see your point. I'm just saying Sutter could have done this so much better.

Because the show has always been about ghost. Even though he was long dead before the show started the ghost of John Telller spoke to Jax from the grave through a forgotten manuscript. Will the ghost of Jax Teller speak to Abel through some forgotten rings?

It's a weird conundrum, do you close every plot point or do you leave a few open to interpretation. I think the show did an admirable job closing the plots that needed to be closed but left a couple open to interpretation; Abel's fate being one of them.

I liked the scene with Abel clutching the rings because it leaves his fate open to interpretation. Does the ghost of his family drive him back or do Nero and Wendy drive him forward into an unknown future?

[Captanne]

My interpretation of the Abel/Son ring scene was this:  He is a literal "son" of Jax and he will always be a "son" of SAMCRO, just like Jax.  Jax swore he'd change things and realized at the end that he not only didn't but he couldn't.  He's a "criminal and a killer" and he can't change.  

 

Sutter left it open for us -- is Abel going to be the man Jax couldn't?  Or is he going to be just like Jax?  We will never know.  But either of those possibilities is a legitimate future for him.  What is NOT in question is whether he is a Son of Anarchy.  He is.  Period.  Not only is he but he's the heir apparent.

Edited December 12, 2014 by Captanne

[Artsda]

I think it was left open ended on purpose, like who the homeless lady is. We see Jax telling JT that it was too late for him, but it won't be for his boys. Meanwhile Abel's wearing a SONs legacy ring and twisting it around while going to live on a farm for a different life.  Is it already too late for Abel? He has seen a lot of violence already? He also picked up a hammer to protect his brother because it's what he picked up from those around him. Or will the new farm life be enough to change his projected future?

 

We won't know, but no matter what he's still a SON.

 

Interesting Opie's son is being raised by Lyla who works for them, so Opie's son is a given to following their father's legacy, but nobody mentions that.

Edited December 12, 2014 by Artsda

[Ohwell]

 I'll miss that big SAMCRO lug with the knit cap--never knew his name.

[NoWillToResist]

Interesting Opie's son is being raised by Lyla who works for them, so Opie's son is a given to following their father's legacy, but nobody mentions that.

 

I wondered about Opie's kids too. I think they will be out of the life because they don't have a parent in the club anymore. Sure, Lyla works for them but she works in their legit business, not the MC/gang crap.

 

No one has given a flying fuck about Opie's kids to my recollection - were they even in the most recent lockdown? - so I don't expect anyone will be interested in recruiting them when they're older. I think they've been removed from the MC life, even though their stepmother runs their porn business.

 

 

I'll miss that big SAMCRO lug with the knit cap--never knew his name.

 

Yeah, I liked him too! Maybe because he never really said anything, so there wasn't much to be annoyed by. :)

Edited December 12, 2014 by NoWillToResist

[TellAllFerryman]

To see all of these negative comments about the show makes me wonder if any of you were true 'fans' of SOA. 
 
I was disappointed in Jax taking his own life and I will discuss why. The symbolism of the homeless woman throughout the series signified 'impending death' for those who saw her. The bread soaked with wine is a reference to Christ and sacrifice. Christ sacrificed himself for the sins of others, not for his own. Due to the references to Christ, redemption was a strong theme throughout the show.  I believe that once Jax realized that his choices caused tremendous chaos and heartache, he was then ready and free to cut ties with the club and be a father to those boys.  This is ultimately what Tara wanted: Jax AND the boys out of the clutches of the club. 
 
The killing of Marks was to help ensure that Marks would not interfere with the club and the alliances that had been set up.  The killing of Barofsky was due to the killing of the SOA member that died while guarding the 'gun' warehouse, and because of Barofsky's betrayal of the club.  Gemma's death was to free his Jax sons of her insanity and deadly interference in their lives. Her death was justified 100x over.  Every tragedy that happened within the club was directly or indirectly due to Gemma's lies or interference.  No tears for her.

 

Now to the how the final scene went.  Jax killing himself was wrong in so many ways.  His son Abel was old enough to remember everyone in his family.  Since Jax was killed on the same highway as JT, there would have been a funeral and massive grief.  He had lost Tara (whom he had believed to be his mother), grandma, and now his father.  How can someone so young overcome all of this tragedy?  Yes, he is young, but because of the 'ring' reminder, he will question how all of these tragedies came to be when he's older.  No doubt of that.  Jax could have left the country and lived another life (bike mechanic?), but his suicide insured that he would never see his sons again.  Never have the chance to explain to them what happened and why he left.  Jax needed to explain this to his sons personally; it would leave too many open questions for his sons if someone else did the explaining. This seems an awful burden to heft upon his children.  Given Jax's personality of perseverence, I doubt seriously he would have taken his own life.  A person without repent and redemption would not have made sure his sons were taken care of financially and emotionally.  Nor would he have made it possible for the club to continue if they chose to. 

 

I thought the scene with Chibs sitting at the table was interesting.  He has a look of deep thought, while holding and rubbing the President patch. Could he be thinking that the death of Jax was not worth continuing on with the club anymore?  Chibs loved Jax, and Jax's death may have been the sign for Chibs to get out also.  Staying in the life of chaos just was the ruination of all involved, and the pain was just not worth it.

 

Another food for thought about the ending.  As Jax is riding on the infamous highway, he seems to be surprised to see the truck appear before him.  I don't believe he knew exactly how he was going to, or if he had actually made the final decison to take his life.  The trucks appearance seemed to spark the idea in his head; possibly as a tribute to JT. 

 

Much sympathy has been placed towards the truck driver.  I agree on this, but if the ending had gone differently this would be a mute point.  Dragging down another innocent was just plain old bad writing.

 

The crows flying over the highway chase involved symbolism also.  A Scottish legend states that crows take the dead to the afterlife and therefore know the fate of those individuals.  7 crows flew over the scene before the crash.  There are 10 meanings depending the number of crows at the scene.  'Seven is for a secret; never to be told'.  And the Shakespearean quote at the end confirms that Jax did love deeply and had the inner components for redemption.  He just made the wrong choices and his values were comprimised by his upbringing.

 

I've enjoyed this show immensely and it remains my second favorite show of all time, with Breaking Bad as the first favorite.  The ending prevented SOA from making the #1 favorite for me.  This post was quite cathartic for me; I thank this venue to be able to put it on paper.

[Artsda]

 

I wondered about Opie's kids too. I think they will be out of the life because they don't have a parent in the club anymore. Sure, Lyla works for them but she works in their legit business, not the MC/gang crap.

Growing up in Charming, with their father and grandfather's legacy as SONS. I don't think they will choose anything, but the life. Lyla's not going anywhere, she's fully involved with the club no matter what business of theirs she's involved in. She answers to them and the kids will grow up around them.

[henripootel]

Bobby Elvis was on the first aftershow. Don't worry you didn't miss anything-It was awful.

Watched a bit of that - seemed odd at the time that Mark Boone Junior showed up dressed like Bobby Elvis till it dawned on me that he'd been told to do the interview as Bobby Elvis.  Or as Bobby would, so he showed up drunk and surly.  This only occurred to me after Charlie Hunnam showed up in full-Jax months (surely) after filming ended and Kurt Sutter started in with the whole 'lots of bottles of tequila' reminiscences.  This how Sutter wants to see himself and be seen, not as a hollywood guy but as a genu-ine outlaw biker kinda guy.  So weird, in this light, to see Hunnam talking like, well, a professional actor from Northern England.

To see all of these negative comments about the show makes me wonder if any of you were true 'fans' of SOA.

Of course we are - you can't be this disappointed by something you never cared about.  

Edited December 12, 2014 by henripootel

[NoWillToResist]

The killing of Marks was to help ensure that Marks would not interfere with the club and the alliances that had been set up.  The killing of Barofsky was due to the killing of the SOA member that died while guarding the 'gun' warehouse, and because of Barofsky's betrayal of the club.  Gemma's death was to free his Jax sons of her insanity and deadly interference in their lives. Her death was justified 100x over.  Every tragedy that happened within the club was directly or indirectly due to Gemma's lies or interference.  No tears for her.

 

Now to the how the final scene went.  Jax killing himself was wrong in so many ways.  His son Abel was old enough to remember everyone in his family.  Since Jax was killed on the same highway as JT, there would have been a funeral and massive grief.  He had lost Tara (whom he had believed to be his mother), grandma, and now his father.  How can someone so young overcome all of this tragedy?  Yes, he is young, but because of the 'ring' reminder, he will question how all of these tragedies came to be when he's older.  No doubt of that.  Jax could have left the country and lived another life (bike mechanic?), but his suicide insured that he would never see his sons again.  Never have the chance to explain to them what happened and why he left.  Jax needed to explain this to his sons personally; it would leave too many open questions for his sons if someone else did the explaining. This seems an awful burden to heft upon his children.  Given Jax's personality of perseverence, I doubt seriously he would have taken his own life.  A person without repent and redemption would not have made sure his sons were taken care of financially and emotionally.  Nor would he have made it possible for the club to continue if they chose to. 

 

 

Jax killed Pope. Marks succeeded Pope. Jax killed Marks. What's to stop his successor from going after the club? If there's one thing I wish Jax had learned (and apparently didn't) it's that killing people doesn't just end things. He didn't wipe out entire organizations. He also only killed ONE of the IRA kings. Are we to assume that these guys are going to be all "oh, you killed one of us and cut off all our gun-running in California? Ok then. Carry on in peace, my brothers!" ? Are the Sons the only ones who are allowed to kill in revenge? Jax didn't act alone all season; his boys were right there with him dropping bodies, so I fail to understand why Jax thinks "oh, with me out of the picture, all the violence will be over and the club will be safe!" Other chapters of SAMCRO will be appeased because their beef was with Jax but the rival gangs won't give a fuck, IMO. Hell, Jax himself went after all of Lin's organization instead of just the guy that was supposed to have killed Tara, so why will the Sons be safe with just Jax gone? Wouldn't the IRA, the non-local Chinese gangs and the rest of Marks/Pope's crew want revenge against the Sons at large?

 

Jax couldn't explain any of his 'selflessness' to his sons  because he wants his sons to HATE him and have no fond memories of him. Putting any rose-coloured glasses on the Sons or allowing any nostalgia would only open the door to his sons entering the MC life, which is what Tara didn't want and Jax finally fucking got. You can know what someone needs but be self-aware enough to realize that you can't be the one to provide it. He loves his boys but he was a fucking terrible father. Getting them out of Charming was the one thing he did right in his dumbass life, IMO.

 

I have one question though: did the other MC members realize that Jax was going to kill himself or did they just think he was going to disappear? I get that, either way, they'd never see him again, but I couldn't figure out how much they knew...

Edited December 12, 2014 by NoWillToResist

[Captanne]

Nice touch about the crows.  Scottish writer, Iain Banks wrote a neat story called "Crow Road" which is worth a read or even a watch since the BBC made a miniseries of it years ago.  

 

 

 

The book was ... called The Crow Road (an old Scottish metaphor for death), and was responsible for introducing Banks to a mainstream audience.

http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/at-the-end-of-the-crow-road-1354887.html

Edited December 12, 2014 by Captanne

[Duke2801]

To see all of these negative comments about the show makes me wonder if any of you were true 'fans' of SOA.

 

 

In my opinion, one can be a "fan" of the show, and still not like certain things that certain characters did, or how certain scenarios played out.  Or the direction that the writer/creator took the show in the 7th season, in my case. 

 

Just like I *love* my significant other, but I don't always like every little thing he does or says. 

[Ohwell]

Yeah, I liked him too! Maybe because he never really said anything, so there wasn't much to be annoyed by. :)

Yeah, he kinda just stood in the background, being all loyal and shit.  But I swear though, if I ever needed a bodyguard, I'd want someone who looks just like him. 

[Chaos Theory]

In my opinion, one can be a "fan" of the show, and still not like certain things that certain characters did, or how certain scenarios played out. Or the direction that the writer/creator took the show in the 7th season, in my case.

Just like I *love* my significant other, but I don't always like every little thing he does or says.

We are all splitting hairs now. Personally my hair splitting are those who say "I haven't liked the show since the x season." And still think they are a fan even though we are like five seasons past that. That is just me though and yes you can not like certain things about a show and still like the show but reading these boards it often looks like people dislike more then they like, which to someone who does really like the show, makes it look like they don't like the show.

[Gudzilla]

I don't feel bad for the truck driver because of what he did to Ma Petite.

[Ottis]

I liked the scene with Abel clutching the rings because it leaves his fate open to interpretation. Does the ghost of his family drive him back or do Nero and Wendy drive him forward into an unknown future?

 

 

And that is why I struggle with this. Because if you leave the ending that open, then are you saying anything at all? If what has already happened has no affect on what happens next, then none of it matters. The series could open and close and nothing that happened in between matters. The ending needs to say *something* IMO. Making us guess is pretty empty. In this sense it comes close to the ending of The Sopranos. 

[Lonesome Rhodes]

Something I haven't figured out yet is why the heck Nero would choose to have a long-term relationship with Wendy and/or the  boys.  Yes, he agreed to help Wendy get the boys out of Charming.  Yet, he was quite reluctant to do so.  He didn't say yes right away.  IIRC, he never actually did say, "Yes."  Does Wendy have a magic cooter like Gemma?   Nope.  Are the boys in any way a prize?  Nope.  The opposite.  Would he want a demonstrably fragile Wendy around HIS boy?  It takes a ton of back and forth/work to make any close relationship work.  What would be in it for Nero?  The man thought he was completely out and then Jax begs him to stay in.  I just don't see that lasting for very long.

 

Charlie was very clear that Jax set out to kill himself when he left his brothers.  It was just a matter of how.  So, that was the deal he struck with them for not carrying out Mr. Mayhem themselves.  Things would have been very bad for them with the other charters had Jax lived for any period of time.

 

Given how Sutter was an especially anvilicious writer, there is no doubt in my mind  that he meant the glimpse of Abel with the ring to be highly significant.  He also went out of his way a few weeks ago on an Afterword to talk about how important and awesome it was that Gemma went to see Abel at the school that last time and that she gave him that ring.  It's very clear to me.

Edited December 12, 2014 by Lonesome Rhodes

[TellAllFerryman]

I never did like Unser. You're a cop. There criminals. Stay out of the life don't park your dam mobile home in there parking lot and go along with everything then cry at the end "I'm arresting you!" when you've been part of the life all along. (Can a retired cop still arrest people?) Yep that's "all you had" Your choice Unser-You hang around them, you die like them,your choice. I only wih Jax had shot him 4 seasons ago!

Unser's involvement of the club really was because of his love of Gemma.  He knew her growing up, and had an unrequited love for her always.  He didn't agree on much of what the club did, but Gemma's wants were his main concern.  Anything she wanted, he did.  I look at his murder as a mercy killing.  Jax shook his head when Unser said he would have nothing left after Gemma was gone.  This was absolutely the truth and Jax knew it.

[TellAllFerryman]

Jax killed Pope. Marks succeeded Pope. Jax killed Marks. What's to stop his successor from going after the club? If there's one thing I wish Jax had learned (and apparently didn't) it's that killing people doesn't just end things. He didn't wipe out entire organizations. He also only killed ONE of the IRA kings. Are we to assume that these guys are going to be all "oh, you killed one of us and cut off all our gun-running in California? Ok then. Carry on in peace, my brothers!" ? Are the Sons the only ones who are allowed to kill in revenge? Jax didn't act alone all season; his boys were right there with him dropping bodies, so I fail to understand why Jax thinks "oh, with me out of the picture, all the violence will be over and the club will be safe!" Other chapters of SAMCRO will be appeased because their beef was with Jax but the rival gangs won't give a fuck, IMO. Hell, Jax himself went after all of Lin's organization instead of just the guy that was supposed to have killed Tara, so why will the Sons be safe with just Jax gone? Wouldn't the IRA, the non-local Chinese gangs and the rest of Marks/Pope's crew want revenge against the Sons at large?

 

Jax couldn't explain any of his 'selflessness' to his sons  because he wants his sons to HATE him and have no fond memories of him. Putting any rose-coloured glasses on the Sons or allowing any nostalgia would only open the door to his sons entering the MC life, which is what Tara didn't want and Jax finally fucking got. You can know what someone needs but be self-aware enough to realize that you can't be the one to provide it. He loves his boys but he was a fucking terrible father. Getting them out of Charming was the one thing he did right in his dumbass life, IMO.

 

I have one question though: did the other MC members realize that Jax was going to kill himself or did they just think he was going to disappear? I get that, either way, they'd never see him again, but I couldn't figure out how much they knew...

I'm not sure the club survives after the finale.  Chibs did not look as if he was ready or willing to go on.  If you read my original post again, you will see that I've explained fully why Jax was the only one who could guide these children into becoming good men.  His being a 'terrible father' was due to the overwhelming entrenchment in the club.   His repenting his sins did not have to include suicide.  This was extremely out of character for Jax. 

There is an interview I just watched with Charlie Hunnam on whether he would want Jax to live or die.  Charlie said that he would have rather have seen Jax survive the finale.  Paraphrasing what Charlie said:  He had been through so much, and it would have been more satisfying and interesting to see what he would have done with the rest of his life. ..  This interview was done after episode 9 (E online).  The cast didn't have access to scripts much in advance, so Charlie did not know what path Sutter ultimately chose.  Jax could have been a good father without his being involved with the club.  He loved deeply his 'family'.  Being raised by Gemma and Clay darkened his true self.

[Chaos Theory]

And that is why I struggle with this. Because if you leave the ending that open, then are you saying anything at all? If what has already happened has no affect on what happens next, then none of it matters. The series could open and close and nothing that happened in between matters. The ending needs to say *something* IMO. Making us guess is pretty empty. In this sense it comes close to the ending of The Sopranos.

We all have ghosts in are past. Bse have a tighter grip then other. This was always a story about what we are and who we are and I guess I disagree that the ending said •nothing•. It just didn't say and they lived happily ever after. What it did say was life goes on. The show could have taken the easy path and had made it clear what choice Abel was going to make and have him make the right one but in all honesty I think this is a show where you can never discount the ghosts of the past.

[NoWillToResist]

Something I haven't figured out yet is why the heck Nero would choose to have a long-term relationship with Wendy and/or the  boys.  Yes, he agreed to help Wendy get the boys out of Charming.  Yet, he was quite reluctant to do so.  He didn't say yes right away.  IIRC, he never actually did say, "Yes."  Does Wendy have a magic cooter like Gemma?   Nope.  Are the boys in any way a prize?  Nope.  The opposite.  Would he want a demonstrably fragile Wendy around HIS boy?  It takes a ton of back and forth/work to make any close relationship work.  What would be in it for Nero?  The man thought he was completely out and then Jax begs him to stay in.  I just don't see that lasting for very long.

 

I don't think Wendy and Nero were going to be a thing. I think they were going to platonically raise the kids together. Him doing so was less about Wendy IMO and more about Jax and the kids themselves. Jax basically asked him to take his kids. Nero would do it, for the good of the kids if nothing else, IMO. Wasn't he the one who was surprised that Jax didn't take the boys somewhere safe and away from the carnage of Charming in a very recent episode?

 

I'm not sure the club survives after the finale.  Chibs did not look as if he was ready or willing to go on.  If you read my original post again, you will see that I've explained fully why Jax was the only one who could guide these children into becoming good men.  His being a 'terrible father' was due to the overwhelming entrenchment in the club.   His repenting his sins did not have to include suicide.  This was extremely out of character for Jax. 

There is an interview I just watched with Charlie Hunnam on whether he would want Jax to live or die.  Charlie said that he would have rather have seen Jax survive the finale.  Paraphrasing what Charlie said:  He had been through so much, and it would have been more satisfying and interesting to see what he would have done with the rest of his life. ..  This interview was done after episode 9 (E online).  The cast didn't have access to scripts much in advance, so Charlie did not know what path Sutter ultimately chose.  Jax could have been a good father without his being involved with the club.  He loved deeply his 'family'.  Being raised by Gemma and Clay darkened his true self.

 

I agree that Jax is a generally decent sort but, for better or worse, he would/could never leave his club family. Personally, I thought that was evident when he couldn't even do it for the big love of his life (Tara) and his boys. I think the loss of Tara, seeing what it turned him into, and realizing that it all happened because of his mother, combined to make him feel that he will never be free of the club or its mentality. He's too far entrenched in that life, so he had to excise himself from his boys' life to save them.