Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[Curio]

Quote

HOROWITZ: We’re also not seeing six Reginas. It’s our Regina.

 

 

It's funny how they joke about this, but they also forget that there were literally three different Reginas in Season 6 at one point. Flashback Regina, present-day "Good" Regina, and present-day "Evil Queen" Regina all appeared in 6x02. Most of the season had two Reginas walking around. I bet they pitched six Reginas in the writers' room and Goodman had to talk them down.

Edited July 28, 2017 by Curio

[Free]

29 minutes ago, PixiePaws1 said:

The actual wording is:

Any plans for Emma to return for more than one episode? 
KITSIS: Nope.

Now people...what have we learned about these 2 morons in the last 6 years of lies, misdirections and failed promises? They couldn't plan their way out of paper bag let alone a full season. If/when the ratings start plummeting to, never before discovered, depths their so called 'plans' will be instantly scrapped.

 

1 hour ago, Camera One said:

They do seem to have the magic touch when it comes to smoothing things over.  They got Red back for that horrible "Ruby Slippers".  They got the angry Sean Maguire back for that ridiculous AltRobin arc which had nothing to do with the Original Recipe Robin.  They're getting Belle back for an episode in 7A.  I can see Jennifer Morrison being willing to come back for a series finale if her schedule allows it, especially if her friends Ginny and Josh return as well.

True, but Jen herself has to agree to it and she's pretty much moved on from the series.

 

1 hour ago, maryle said:

Or they didn't want her back!

It feels like the other way around, she has other projects lined up like the play she recently did or the movie she's directing.

[superloislane]

3 hours ago, Serena said:

Their "nope" to more Emma in the hot seat seemed pretty final, so either Emma is dead or JMo told them she wasn't coming back for all the gold in the Disney coffers.

Really? Nope?

Well that's definitely me gone for good. I was holding onto a tiny bit of hope that she'd be back more than one episode but that's clearly not the case. I might read over these boards every now and then and be thankful I don't watch it anymore.

Natalie Abrams was sent more Emma and Captain Swan questions than I've ever seen but there was only one Emma question (and one about whether she got her power in the finale which should have been obvious) and there were no questions asked about CS. And yet a Maleficent/Lily question gets asked?

I think A&E decided on the questions asked just like at Comic Con.

Edited July 28, 2017 by superloislane

[Camera One]

In case anyone is worried how many scenes Emma is in:

Quote

Adam Horowitz‏@AdamHorowitzLA

Replying to @CaptainSwan861 @BlueMonkey19 and 7 others

Please don't call me a liar. That's impolite. She's in way more than 2 scenes. Fact.

[KingOfHearts]

3 hours ago, Camera One said:

She's in way more than 2 scenes. Fact.

"For your information, she's in 3."

[daxx]

To be fair to Adam, she flew in early Monday morning and likely still worked all day after a nap. So three possible shooting days could be a fair number of scenes, not saying they all make it in the final cut though.

[KingOfHearts]

3 minutes ago, daxx said:

To be fair to Adam, she flew in early Monday morning and likely still worked all day after a nap. So three possible shooting days could be a fair number of scenes, not saying they all make it in the final cut though.

Watch adam give us like 10 Emma script teases, only for half of them to be cut.

[Shanna Marie]

16 hours ago, Camera One said:

They do seem to have the magic touch when it comes to smoothing things over.  They got Red back for that horrible "Ruby Slippers".  They got the angry Sean Maguire back for that ridiculous AltRobin arc which had nothing to do with the Original Recipe Robin.  They're getting Belle back for an episode in 7A.

The difference is that these were people they got back after they let them go (well, with Red it was apparently a mutual decision -- she asked to be let go when they were obviously bored with her character). They may have been able to smooth things over to get those people back, but they wanted them back. With JMo, I wonder how much the thin skins will play into it. They wanted her back. They planed the "reboot" story around her being back. And she chose not to come back, no matter what money they threw at her. Worse, she suggested that her not coming back had something to do with not being creatively fulfilled (which reflects badly on them). So I could see them getting vindictive and not asking her to come back, whether or not she's willing. I'm not sure the network/Netflix would let them kill her because that would probably lose a huge chunk of audience and ruin rewatch value, but they'll find ways to write around her.

[Free]

2 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

The difference is that these were people they got back after they let them go (well, with Red it was apparently a mutual decision -- she asked to be let go when they were obviously bored with her character). They may have been able to smooth things over to get those people back, but they wanted them back. With JMo, I wonder how much the thin skins will play into it. They wanted her back. They planed the "reboot" story around her being back. And she chose not to come back, no matter what money they threw at her. Worse, she suggested that her not coming back had something to do with not being creatively fulfilled (which reflects badly on them). So I could see them getting vindictive and not asking her to come back, whether or not she's willing. I'm not sure the network/Netflix would let them kill her because that would probably lose a huge chunk of audience and ruin rewatch value, but they'll find ways to write around her.

Agreed, those were people who were let go to begin with, Jen was 1 of the 4 main actors they were trying to go after and she's ready to move on from the series especially once her contract expired.

It's just an awkward exit considering the season involves her son and granddaughter and yet most of Henry's family isn't there.

[Serena]

Which is why it would have made a lot more sense to have the story take place in the Wishverse. Snow and Charming are dead and Emma isn't there because "their" Emma is actually "our" Emma and she went home. Henry is there and he's King now. Regina and Hook and Rumple are there. It was LITERALLY the perfect solution and they managed to miss it once again... (like having Rumple be forced by Zelena to kill Neal was the perfect solution on how to cast Curse Number Two, and yes I'm still not letting that go!)

[Free]

3 minutes ago, Serena said:

Which is why it would have made a lot more sense to have the story take place in the Wishverse. Snow and Charming are dead and Emma isn't there because "their" Emma is actually "our" Emma and she went home. Henry is there and he's King now. Regina and Hook and Rumple are there. It was LITERALLY the perfect solution and they managed to miss it once again... (like having Rumple be forced by Zelena to kill Neal was the perfect solution on how to cast Curse Number Two, and yes I'm still not letting that go!)

Having the season center on Henry, his daughter, and LI only makes it more awkward that a bunch of his family members aren't involved at all.

That Neal situation was a mess, imo, it was clear they didn't know what to do with his character once he reunited with everyone and joined the group.

Edited July 29, 2017 by Free

[Shanna Marie]

Or center the reboot on some totally new character, with Hook, Rumple, and Regina as part of the landscape. It's not really a reboot that's friendly to new viewers if it centers on the adult version of an existing character who has a really complicated history that took six seasons to tell -- he's the grandson of Snow White and Prince Charming who's also the adopted son of the Evil Queen, and Captain Hook is his stepfather (and step-grandfather) and Rumplestiltskin is his paternal grandfather, and he's the Author. And that's not even getting into the thing where he ages into another actor while everyone else stays the same.

Of all the characters on the show, was Henry really the one fans were dying to see more of, to the point that he became the main character? When most of the reviews, even by professional reviewers, contain phrases like "Shut up, Henry" or mention that it was a good episode because there was minimal Henry, it seems weird to build a reboot around him, even if he's played by a different actor. It would be like if Wesley Crusher had been the main character of the next Trek series to come after TNG.

Edited July 30, 2017 by Shanna Marie
sons are different from daughters

[Camera One]

From their perspective, given what they wanted to do and their priorities, it makes sense that a grown-up Henry would be chosen as the protagonist.  They wanted to tell new stories, yes.  But they also wanted to keep Regina.  Henry was the easiest way to make sure she would be deeply tied into the new story.  Who Henry used to be (the younger version) and his popularity or lackthereof is mostly a moot point.  Andrew West's Henry will essentially be a different character.  Older Henry/Lucy allows them to basically replay a similar premise with different details which is possible with their limited creativity.   While it would have made more sense to do a clean break and start with a slate of completely new characters, the strong link to the past increases the chance that fans like us would be unable to let go and give the new season a try.  

Edited July 29, 2017 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

It would be like if Wesley Crusher had been the main character of the next Trek series to come after TNG.

Satan would no doubt be the showrunner.

Quote

From their perspective, given what they wanted to do and their priorities, it makes sense that a grown-up Henry would be chosen as the protagonist.  They wanted to tell new stories, yes.  But they also wanted to keep Regina.  Henry was the easiest way to make sure she would be deeply tied into the new story.  Who Henry used to be (the younger version) and his popularity or lackthereof is mostly a moot point.  Andrew West's Henry will essentially be a different character.  Older Henry/Lucy allows them to basically replay a similar premise with different details which is possible with their limited creativity.   While it would have made more sense to do a clean break and start with a slate of completely new characters, the strong link to the past increases the chance that fans like us would be unable to let go and give the new season a try.  

Yes, it does make sense using A&E logic. Henry is their self-insert and Mary Sue. They are going to think he's such a popular character because they've got their blinders on. These same geniuses thought Clone Queen was what audiences were just begging for.

Edited July 29, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

I was watching this EW Interview, and they were talking about this really "surprising" thing we will learn about Hook.  In previous seasons, I tended to avoid all teaser interviews like this but now I couldn't care less, so it's sort of interesting to see how it's being described now and compare it to what this "surprise" really is.  

I find it a little insulting when they say "there's only so far you can go" with the existing storylines since there needs to be growth blah blah blah.  Colin mentions Robert also said this.  But really, it's the Writers who CHOSE to do the same thing over and over again.  To me, it's not the raw materials (aka the characters, the concept) that was the problem, it's the writing choices they made with these characters.  There were so many avenues they could have gone in Season 4, 5 and 6, yet they consistently chose not to.  There were many facets of the various characters they could have explored, but they consistently chose not to.  If anything, keeping Rumple/The Dark One is counter to this whole mantra of renewal and change.  It's not surprising, but it's a whole bunch of mixed messages.

Edited July 29, 2017 by Camera One

[PixiePaws1]

19 minutes ago, Camera One said:

I was watching this EW Interview, and they were talking about this really "surprising" thing we will learn about Hook. 

My mind went to 2 immediately disturbing places:

1- Officer Rogers is the rehashed 'Graham' forced to be the sex slave for Lady Tremaine as she's the rehashed S1 pant suited 'Mayor' version of Hyperion Heights. He's been cursed to revert to his full villainous personality and doing her dirty work. We know how Colin loves playing villain Hook. Or she is controlling him some how.

Or

2- Cursed!Killian and cursed!Rumple are lovers. Which, considering their history and mutual hatred, would be pretty much the cruelest of cursing for these 2.

Why oh why would my brain come up with that??!!!  I need brain bleach...ewwww!

[legaleagle53]

1 hour ago, PixiePaws1 said:

My mind went to 2 immediately disturbing places:

1- Officer Rogers is the rehashed 'Graham' forced to be the sex slave for Lady Tremaine as she's the rehashed S1 pant suited 'Mayor' version of Hyperion Heights. He's been cursed to revert to his full villainous personality and doing her dirty work. We know how Colin loves playing villain Hook. Or she is controlling him some how.

Or

2- Cursed!Killian and cursed!Rumple are lovers. Which, considering their history and mutual hatred, would be pretty much the cruelest of cursing for these 2.

Why oh why would my brain come up with that??!!!  I need brain bleach...ewwww!

Well, A & E were pretty clear that there would be a new LGBT character this season and that the viewers would not be disappointed the way they were with Mulan and Red/Dorothy.  Frankly, I'd love for the new LGBT character to be male for a change (lesbians have been done to death lately, as far as I'm concerned -- besides, we gay men need OUR representation, too!).

[ParadoxLost]

On ‎7‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 2:51 PM, KingOfHearts said:

The multiple Authors thing just creates more plot holes. Obviously, there will be multiple people out there writing history down. But if Merlin chose his own Author, who chose the others? Who is the authority on the Pens? Is there some sort of deity? How does fate work? Why am I still watching this?

I can't get past this one...

If Isaac is a villain-lite for changing the stories he is recording to his liking, then how does Henry interfering with this version of the Cinderella story turn into an epic love story that rivals Snow and Charming?

[Shanna Marie]

Rewatching "The Doctor," and David gives Henry a horse to start training him to be a knight. Yeah, we don't see or hear of the horse again (or do we?), but wouldn't that have made more sense for Henry heading off on his adventures? He actually has a horse that would fit in while traveling in story realms, so why take the motorcycle when there's no guarantee of fuel and that's not even something associated with his character? I guess it boils down to "wouldn't it be cool," and traveling through fairytale worlds on a motorbike looks more "cool" than a horse.

2 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

If Isaac is a villain-lite for changing the stories he is recording to his liking, then how does Henry interfering with this version of the Cinderella story turn into an epic love story that rivals Snow and Charming?

Isaac's wrong was interfering using his Author power to alter people's free will. The Apprentice didn't want to talk Snow and Charming into the eggnapping and darkectomy and would not have done it if it was his own free will, but Isaac writing it with his magic pen forced him to do it. As long as Henry isn't using his magic pen to make anyone do anything they wouldn't have done otherwise, then it wouldn't be wrong for him to interfere. It's up to Cinderella if she wants to choose Henry over the prince, and since this is a new Cinderella story that's still playing out, there's no saying that any outcome is "wrong." The Snow White story we saw was different from the tale we know, so this version of Cinderella could be just as different. Maybe she still meets the man she falls in love with the night she goes to the ball. It just isn't the prince. At least, not the prince holding the ball (since Henry is technically a prince).

[Noneofyourbusiness]

2 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

I can't get past this one...

If Isaac is a villain-lite for changing the stories he is recording to his liking, then how does Henry interfering with this version of the Cinderella story turn into an epic love story that rivals Snow and Charming?

Isaac used his Author powers to make people act against their own inclinations. Unless we see Henry doing that in the rest of the episode, all he's done is show up and interact with people like a semi-regular guy

 

6 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

Yes, it does make sense using A&E logic. Henry is their self-insert and Mary Sue. They are going to think he's such a popular character because they've got their blinders on. These same geniuses thought Clone Queen was what audiences were just begging for.

It *is* bad to let every reaction you see in the audience drive your writing, but these two are an example of not letting in *any* criticism whatsoever, which is also bad.

 

2 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

Well, A & E were pretty clear that there would be a new LGBT character this season and that the viewers would not be disappointed the way they were with Mulan and Red/Dorothy.  Frankly, I'd love for the new LGBT character to be male for a change (lesbians have been done to death lately, as far as I'm concerned -- besides, we gay men need OUR representation, too!).

I wouldn't say any part of the LGBTQA spectrum has been done enough to be "done to death", but it does seem like showrunners these days think lesbians are "safer" to portray than gay men.

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

It *is* bad to let every reaction you see in the audience drive your writing, but these two are an example of not letting in *any* criticism whatsoever, which is also bad.

They're the worst of both worlds. They don't accept criticism, yet they believe they're acting in the best interest of their critical fans. They write in a reactionary way instead of artistically, yet they're only reacting to their own false perceptions.

Edited July 30, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

34 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

The Snow White story we saw was different from the tale we know, so this version of Cinderella could be just as different. Maybe she still meets the man she falls in love with the night she goes to the ball. It just isn't the prince. At least, not the prince holding the ball (since Henry is technically a prince).

In this universe, Princes are not as swoonworthy and seductive as Television Writers.  Uh, I mean Authors.  

[Noneofyourbusiness]

1 hour ago, KingOfHearts said:

They're the worst of both worlds. They don't accept criticism, yet they believe they're acting in the best interest of their critical fans. They write in a reactionary way instead of artistically, yet they're only reacting to their own false perceptions.

Though I meant that in general and not about Henry. Kid's never bothered me and I've always thought he was a ray of sunshine to have on the show, except when he fell for Pan's obvious lies. Adult Henry will get on my nerves if he keeps doing things like riding a motorcycle fast on a forest path without regard for the innocent peasants he's going to run over because the showrunners think it looks cool, though.

[Free]

10 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

Or center the reboot on some totally new character, with Hook, Rumple, and Regina as part of the landscape. It's not really a reboot that's friendly to new viewers if it centers on the adult version of an existing character who has a really complicated history that took six seasons to tell -- he's the granddaughter of Snow White and Prince Charming who's also the adopted son of the Evil Queen, and Captain Hook is his stepfather (and step-grandfather) and Rumplestiltskin is his paternal grandfather, and he's the Author. And that's not even getting into the thing where he ages into another actor while everyone else stays the same.

Of all the characters on the show, was Henry really the one fans were dying to see more of, to the point that he became the main character? When most of the reviews, even by professional reviewers, contain phrases like "Shut up, Henry" or mention that it was a good episode because there was minimal Henry, it seems weird to build a reboot around him, even if he's played by a different actor. It would be like if Wesley Crusher had been the main character of the next Trek series to come after TNG.

That's why it's so messy, it's not a clean slate either way and with the focus on Henry's family this season, the missing cast members are more apparent than ever.

[KAOS Agent]

13 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

With JMo, I wonder how much the thin skins will play into it. They wanted her back. They planed the "reboot" story around her being back. And she chose not to come back, no matter what money they threw at her. Worse, she suggested that her not coming back had something to do with not being creatively fulfilled (which reflects badly on them). So I could see them getting vindictive and not asking her to come back, whether or not she's willing. 

Eddy's "Nope" to a question about Emma returning for any more eps was really definitive and a reflection on their negative feelings towards Jen for leaving. Maybe they blame her for the generally negative response to the new season. There were articles written by big entertainment sites that the show was pointless without Emma. That's gotta hurt these guys who have been described as "master storytellers". I think they're aware that they are screwed without Emma and Jen's the one at fault for that. I wouldn't be surprised if they do take it out on Emma because I think they do underestimate what the viewers think of her.  However, they're super stupid to respond that way to that question. They're fond of "can't say" and "no spoilers" and "I'd hope so" and here was a chance to stick to that and maybe keep some more fans watching. Instead, they basically told Captain Swan and Emma fans not to bother. It was a really, really dumb move. 

[Camera One]

Yeah, for some questions, they answered "You never know" or "Never say never".  Why shut it down with a Nope, when their whole game and their only trump card is to play with us over the fate of the characters we love who are gone.

Edited July 30, 2017 by Camera One

[october]

9 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

Well, A & E were pretty clear that there would be a new LGBT character this season and that the viewers would not be disappointed the way they were with Mulan and Red/Dorothy.  Frankly, I'd love for the new LGBT character to be male for a change (lesbians have been done to death lately, as far as I'm concerned -- besides, we gay men need OUR representation, too!).

According to GLAAD, gay men make up almost half of all LGBT representation on prime time television and cable (which is a lot considering gay men don't make up half of the LGBT+ population in real life). All corners of the community need more substantial representation but, statistically speaking, gay guys (especially white ones) aren't being crowded out by queer women.

I'd be glad to see a queer male character on OUAT for the same reason I'm happy to see a WOC playing Cinderella. But I'm not convinced Adam and Eddy understand what they did wrong with Ruby, Mulan and Dorothy. So much of their writing comes from a place of wanting to pre-empt or neutralise criticism from fans to protect their egos rather than writing sincerely from a place of empathy. And the result is that much of their attempts at diversity end up feeling hollow and forgettable.

Edited July 30, 2017 by october

[PixiePaws1]

http://hellogiggles.com/once-upon-a-time-robert-carlyle-colin-odonoghue/amp/

Accent change for Rumple..

[RadioGirl27]

Quote

I was watching this EW Interview, and they were talking about this really "surprising" thing we will learn about Hook.  

So, what would it be now? He killed FakeCinder's Fairy godmother? Regina's puppy? He casted the curse (again)? 

A&E lack of creativity is so glaring. 

[scenicbyway]

11 hours ago, KAOS Agent said:

Eddy's "Nope" to a question about Emma returning for any more eps was really definitive and a reflection on their negative feelings towards Jen for leaving. Maybe they blame her for the generally negative response to the new season. There were articles written by big entertainment sites that the show was pointless without Emma. That's gotta hurt these guys who have been described as "master storytellers". I think they're aware that they are screwed without Emma and Jen's the one at fault for that. I wouldn't be surprised if they do take it out on Emma because I think they do underestimate what the viewers think of her.  However, they're super stupid to respond that way to that question. They're fond of "can't say" and "no spoilers" and "I'd hope so" and here was a chance to stick to that and maybe keep some more fans watching. Instead, they basically told Captain Swan and Emma fans not to bother. It was a really, really dumb move. 

See, I think it was a smart answer.  They've said they don't want to destroy the last 6 years or Captain Swan's happy ending.  I'm glad they aren't leading fans on.  Any answer other than "nope" would've given fans like myself that glimmer of hope to cling to that Emma would return.  We've now heard from the show runners themselves that there is no current plan for her to return after the one episode.  Jen has also confirmed this on her social media.

 

Jen chose not to renew her contract, which is her choice.  As the main character of the show, I think it was a poor choice because her decision affected a lot of people who work on the show, network and fans.  She's chosen to put her wishes first and shown it was just a job for her.  I'm puzzled at the creative direction angle because all along she said she wanted a happy ending for Emma, which she got in the penultimate episode and Season 7 was still meant to feature her as a lead.  I honestly think it was more about her not wanting to live in Vancouver, (which she didn't really anyway, her time was spent flying to other places).

[Rumsy4]

31 minutes ago, scenicbyway said:

Season 7 was still meant to feature her as a lead.

"Still"? Emma has been the "lead" of this Show in name only for a while now. Regina and Rumple took over Season 6. And even if Jen had continued on for Season 7, Emma would not even have been a "lead". Season 7 is Henry's Show. 

Edited July 30, 2017 by Rumsy4

[Camera One]

Henry as true lead will only last one season.  By then, they'll run out of "surprises" for him and he will be back to being as boring as Snow or Emma to A&E.

Edited July 30, 2017 by Camera One

[Rumsy4]

1 minute ago, Camera One said:

Henry as true lead will only last one season.  By then, they'll run out of "surprises" for him and he will be back to being as boring as Snow or Emma to A&E.

I agree. If this Show gets a Season 8, Regina will be back as acting lead. Heck, the second half of Season 7 will be Regina-heavy as usual. What's the betting? 

[Camera One]

Just now, Rumsy4 said:

I agree. If this Show gets a Season 8, Regina will be back as acting lead. Heck, the second half of Season 7 will be Regina-heavy as usual. What's the betting? 

Or Lady Tremaine.  Since she's so bold and audacious.

[Rumsy4]

2 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Or Lady Tremaine

More likely Regina vs Lady Tremaine (The Battle of the "Evil/Misunderstood Step-moms). And maybe the EQ will be back with Fake!Robin to help her other half save the day. :-p

Edited July 30, 2017 by Rumsy4

[Camera One]

Cora is probably Lady Tremaine's mother as well.  

[Noneofyourbusiness]

49 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

"Still"? Emma has been the "lead" of this Show in name only for a while now. Regina and Rumple took over Season 6.

Before that. For all that Hook said "you defeated Pan, you defeated the Wicked Witch", it was Rumple and Regina who did those things. I've been shaking my heads for years now at how A&E can have not noticed how little saving their Savior has been doing.

[Camera One]

1 hour ago, Rumsy4 said:

And maybe the EQ will be back with Fake!Robin 

Maybe this time, we'll get to see Fake!Robin's hat.

[PixiePaws1]

3 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

I agree. If this Show gets a Season 8, Regina will be back as acting lead. Heck, the second half of Season 7 will be Regina-heavy as usual. What's the betting? 

I think you are too 'optimistic'...A&E are probably already bored with New Henry now that he served his purpose of doing the 'wouldn't it be really cool to have an overhead shot of a motorcycle racing through the EF'...if they could have come up with a way to have Regina be on that bike instead,  then New Henry probably wouldn't have got even that much!

[Featherhat]

21 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

Well, A & E were pretty clear that there would be a new LGBT character this season and that the viewers would not be disappointed the way they were with Mulan and Red/Dorothy.  Frankly, I'd love for the new LGBT character to be male for a change (lesbians have been done to death lately, as far as I'm concerned -- besides, we gay men need OUR representation, too!).

Hmm, well we've all heard the "this time you won't be disappointed" from them before. I'm looking forward to new LGBT characters but with caution, which ever letter of the acronym they end up being. I'm not holding my breath that they'll be any more significant than the previous characters, though it would be nice if one was a regular or heavily recurring, and that they are more openly out than Mulan during the majority of her episodes. I definitely wouldn't mind two Princes finding happily ever after with each other if it happens.

 

4 hours ago, scenicbyway said:

Jen chose not to renew her contract, which is her choice.  As the main character of the show, I think it was a poor choice because her decision affected a lot of people who work on the show, network and fans.  She's chosen to put her wishes first and shown it was just a job for her.  I'm puzzled at the creative direction angle because all along she said she wanted a happy ending for Emma, which she got in the penultimate episode and Season 7 was still meant to feature her as a lead.  I honestly think it was more about her not wanting to live in Vancouver, (which she didn't really anyway, her time was spent flying to other places).

Well for many actors on many shows it is just a job for them, especially if they've been at it for multiple years and are desperate to move locations and try other things. "Creative decision"  probably does mean wanting to direct/do plays/indies/whatever. As well as not being happy with the writing for her character for a while. She may have wanted Emma to have a happy ending but it might not have seemed worth everything else she wants going on in her life, which is fair because it *is* fiction. I don't think Jen leaving has affected the network or anyone working on the show, beyond maybe giving A&E a head ache trying to work out a way to have a Hook without Emma and keep some semblance of a happy ending (or not). The network would have cancelled the show if Netflix hadn't stepped in, that was a bigger factor than any of the actors. It only really sucks for her fans, which I am. Yeah personally I really wish she'd stayed or at least agreed to do a few more episodes, but she didn't, sigh. But unlike some actors on other high profile shows she didn't quit before her contract or publically bad mouth the show or refuse to turn up to set until they gave into new contract demands etc. It seems she stayed professional and classy.

[Camera One]

I'm thinking like A&E to come up with some surprising "twists"...

- Older Henry is actually a mind-wiped time travelling Henry Sr. 

- Lady Tremaine gives Drizella a glamor spell, and Henry mistakenly impregnates Drizella, who is Lucy's real mother.  Lady Tremaine can't hurt Lucy because she's her biological granddaughter.  In the new "Curse", Lady Tremaine is Lucy's legal guardian.

- Henry's true love isn't Cinderella, it's the Prince

Edited July 30, 2017 by Camera One

[Souris]

I think Lady Tremaine is the new LGBT character. There was an answer about her machinations and need to be royal stemming from some personal need/pain/secret -- can't remember the exact phrasing, but it made me think it would be her. 

[legaleagle53]

52 minutes ago, Souris said:

I think Lady Tremaine is the new LGBT character. There was an answer about her machinations and need to be royal stemming from some personal need/pain/secret -- can't remember the exact phrasing, but it made me think it would be her. 

I'd say that makes her more Regina or Cora 2.0 than Mulan 2.0.

Edited July 30, 2017 by legaleagle53

[Rumsy4]

5 hours ago, Souris said:

I think Lady Tremaine is the new LGBT character. There was an answer about her machinations and need to be royal stemming from some personal need/pain/secret -- can't remember the exact phrasing, but it made me think it would be her. 

Maybe New!Cinders outed her intentionally. I really hope A&E don't go that route.

[Serena]

1 hour ago, Rumsy4 said:

Maybe New!Cinders outed her intentionally. I really hope A&E don't go that route.

Maybe UNintentionally. Or without understanding the consequences. A&E didn't have the courage to have 8 year old to tell a secret for evil reasons, I doubt they'd do it with Cinderella. 

[Free]

16 hours ago, Featherhat said:

Hmm, well we've all heard the "this time you won't be disappointed" from them before. I'm looking forward to new LGBT characters but with caution, which ever letter of the acronym they end up being. I'm not holding my breath that they'll be any more significant than the previous characters, though it would be nice if one was a regular or heavily recurring, and that they are more openly out than Mulan during the majority of her episodes. I definitely wouldn't mind two Princes finding happily ever after with each other if it happens.

 

Well for many actors on many shows it is just a job for them, especially if they've been at it for multiple years and are desperate to move locations and try other things. "Creative decision"  probably does mean wanting to direct/do plays/indies/whatever. As well as not being happy with the writing for her character for a while. She may have wanted Emma to have a happy ending but it might not have seemed worth everything else she wants going on in her life, which is fair because it *is* fiction. I don't think Jen leaving has affected the network or anyone working on the show, beyond maybe giving A&E a head ache trying to work out a way to have a Hook without Emma and keep some semblance of a happy ending (or not). The network would have cancelled the show if Netflix hadn't stepped in, that was a bigger factor than any of the actors. It only really sucks for her fans, which I am. Yeah personally I really wish she'd stayed or at least agreed to do a few more episodes, but she didn't, sigh. But unlike some actors on other high profile shows she didn't quit before her contract or publically bad mouth the show or refuse to turn up to set until they gave into new contract demands etc. It seems she stayed professional and classy.

Exactly, they've said this time and again.  They said this the last time they did a LGBT couple too.

[tennisgurl]

Yeah, I will believe that "we wont be disappointed" crap when we see it. They made a huge damn deal about the LGBT couple they were going to give us, and we got a five second romance between two women who had known each other for five minutes, and are never seen again about their TLK moment. Oh what progress!

I'm also not thrilled about the idea of Lady Tremaine being the new LGBT character, especially if she's a villain whos whole evil angle is that she's angsty for liking other women. Not that you cant make a good story out of a villain whos LGBT, or someone whos angsty about it due to personality or culture, you totally can, but I don't trust these guys to do this well at all. Of course, I don't know if she will be our LGBT character, but it certainly sounds like something they'll do. They'll be all "we`ve just so progressive, our villain has such a GREAT reason to be evil, its so tragic!" and they will pat themselves in the head for the whole season, while I strain my neck rolling my eyes. No way can these guys do something as complicated as a person turning evil due to gay angst.

[Kktjones]

Apologies, but I haven't paid enough attention to A&E's interviews to know this. Did they tease a LGBT character or couple/romance? Just curious b/c if it's a couple, I think it might be between two of Alice/Drizella/Tiana, but if it's just a character, then I could see them making it Lady Tremaine. I just don't know who they would pair her up with. She's quite a bit older than all the other women - closest is Lana, but I really don't know if I see them going there. 

[Camera One]

32 minutes ago, Kktjones said:

Apologies, but I haven't paid enough attention to A&E's interviews to know this. Did they tease a LGBT character or couple/romance? 

Here is the quote:

“One of the show’s franchises is love,” Kitsis tells EW. “This iteration is reflecting the world today. It will not be anything more than just one of other love stories that are happening. I don’t think it’s an arc, it’ll be a character who is gay and that’s who they are and they exist in the world. They don’t have a sign that says ‘special episode.'”

Edited July 31, 2017 by Camera One

[Kktjones]

3 minutes ago, Camera One said:

“One of the show’s franchises is love,” Kitsis tells EW. “This iteration is reflecting the world today. It will not be anything more than just one of other love stories that are happening. I don’t think it’s an arc, it’ll be a character who is gay and that’s who they are and they exist in the world. They don’t have a sign that says ‘special episode.'”

Thank you for finding this quote! However, it feels like it could be taken either way. They mention it's "just one of other love stories that are happening", but then also say "it'll be a character who is gay". As usual their interviews cloudy things up rather than making them clear. Guess we'll just have to wait and see. I would be excited about the rep, but given the history here, I have no faith any part of the story will be handled well.