Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[BoPeeps]

Talk about a buzzkill!

Not a surprise at all about Morrison.  Ever since I saw pics of her new haircut I thought "she's outta there!" I wish her all the very best.  She had a (mostly) good character run and has a sterling future ahead of her as a producer/director as well.

Nothing surprises me, either, about where the writing has taken the show.  They ran out of substantive ideas for these characters a while back and have been running on plot driven fumes for a long time.  A shame...but...blah blah blah.  It is what it is.

If Colin goes (and it seems quite possible except for that "contract" thing) I will miss my scalawag Pirate, but he has been abused by the writers as well.  They never lived up to his potential or his talent.

Carlyle will not be unemployed no matter what. 

Will be verrry interesting to see what decisions come down this week.  These writers "reboot" every season.

We shall soon seeeee!

[Souris]

12 minutes ago, clairetvfanatic said:

The only way I can see season 7 happening without Snowing and Emma, is a Wish Realm version since they are gone from there anyway. Sean and Lana kinda hinted at things in a recent con and it would keep Colin as Old Hook. 

They really have set up the Wishverse perfectly for the actors they will have -- no Snowing or Emma there. They can even magic Old Hook into looking like current Hook. That realm's Henry would fit the description of the new guy -- he used to have hope/family/friends. And the little girl could be EQ and Robin's kid. They said she's from a broken home -- maybe Wish!Robin ditched them.

I don't know if that's what they'll do, but it would fit.

[Shanna Marie]

1 hour ago, Amerilla said:

Only if it were a CGI swan. In real life, swans are often aggressive little devils. 

Well, yeah, and they're not exactly trainable for acting. But judging by his talent to have chemistry with everyone and everything, he'd have freaky levels of chemistry with a tennis ball on a stick that we'd see as a swan. Or else they'd do what they seem to have done with Sven, where they film an animal, get lots of reaction shots, and splice them together so that it looks like the animal is reacting to the actor. So, still, chemistry with a tennis ball on a stick to give an eyeline while they pick the pre-filmed swan reaction to go with it.

It is kind of hard to see how they get from Hook and Emma riding off into the sunset as cops to Emma gone, which I guess would be what the first episode of the next season that she agreed to do would be about. Which makes me want even more for a cancellation if the ending of this season would be good and the bad thing wouldn't happen until the beginning of the next season.

[superloislane]

12 minutes ago, TheGreenKnight said:

I imagine the only they would make it work without killing Emma is if they have some storyline where Hook and Regina (and whoever else comes back--Rumpel, Zelena?) spend the whole season trying to find Emma (or to get back to wherever she is), and Morrison appears in the S7 finale.

That was my thought too but then they'd have to explain where Emma's parents are and why they aren't doing anything. Or I guess they could be doing things offscreen and Hook is on the phone to them every now and then.

I just hate the idea that they would possibly destroy Emma and Hook's happiness after the big 'Happy Beginnings' song. It's a show about hope don't you know?

[Curio]

8 minutes ago, Souris said:

They really have set up the Wishverse perfectly for the actors they will have -- no Snowing or Emma there. They can even magic Old Hook into looking like current Hook. That realm's Henry would fit the description of the new guy -- he used to have hope/family/friends. And the little girl could be EQ and Robin's kid. They said she's from a broken home -- maybe Wish!Robin ditched them.

 

If Season 7 is the Wishverse, I want them to keep Old Hook around instead of normal Hook. If Hook is forced to not be with Emma, then I'd prefer to see Colin stretch his acting chops a little more. I'm already treating Season 7 like a DVD extra, so I'd rather have Colin playing an almost entirely different character than to mess with real Killian's happy beginning with Emma.

[sharky]

Hm.... you know we speculated when it happened that there could be a possible Wish Realm reboot. I could actually see that working and would be on board with that. Outlaw Queen would be there, Colin would still be working, and Captain Swan would remain intact. It would actually better explain Hook's random appearance in the Wish Realm episode. It's essentially alt-Once. Plus, you could bring back other characters without ret-conning by just hand waving it as the Wish Realm. Blackbeard is around, Ariel could be a pirate friend (Joanna's show was cancelled). It's the same characters with a reset button. It would make sense too in the timing of the show. They filmed the Wish Realm in December likely knowing that certain contracts either wouldn't be renewed or at least would be renegotiated. Then pitch the reboot to ABC in January with this possibility and shove a bunch of stuff in to tie up Emma's story and Captain Swan with the wedding and musical and everything.

The more I think about this, the more I could actually get behind it. How much have we complained about ret-con on this show? That would fix this. And if they stick with the stupid flashbacks, they could tell completely new flashbacks withou lt ret con nonsense. 

[Serena]

You guys are smart, and you're right. A WishVerse reboot is the perfect solution. I wouldn't hate it. I mean, I probably still wouldn't watch it, but it wouldn't sour my memories of the show the same way them continuing current!Hook's storyline without Emma would.

Edited May 8, 2017 by Serena

[RadioGirl27]

Yeah, the WishVerse reboot is the only thing that makes sense without Emma, Snow, Belle (I'm pretty sure Emilie is out) and Zelena (again, I'm pretty sure Rebecca is out). But I doubt they would keep Colin as OldHook all the time, so he would need some kind of make over.

[sharky]

Regina would be facing some magic foe and would need a cunning pirate to help her. She's been in our universe. She knows what Hook could be here as a enemy. But then she could put him on her side. Hand wave and drunk Old!Hook becomes Dashing!Hook.

[SiobhanJW]

Maybe that's why Jen decided not to come back- because it was going to be in the WishVerse? And she just didn't feel it was necessary for her to sign up again to do that? Maybe she felt happy/satisfied with the ending Emma got? 

Edited May 8, 2017 by SiobhanJW

[sharky]

I would assume it was the other way around. I don't think Jen's decision would have been made based on knowing the Wish Realm was the next story. It was more like the Wish Realm was created out of necessity. Jen has been doing some directing and has talked about how hard it is to travel to LA and New York from Van every weekend. None of that has been a secret. So perhaps the Wish Realm was created so in case she decided not to come back, they had a reset plan in place.

Hell, if you look at the second half of the season with this info, there are several things that make sense now. The Wish Realm and Hook's separate adventure being the two biggest examples. And if they knew Jen was leaving early on in the season, it would explain why the Untold Stories were dropped so quickly. If anything, it would hint at the fact that this has been in the works for awhile even before the first ratings of the season rolled in.

[Curio]

16 minutes ago, RadioGirl27 said:

But I doubt they would keep Colin as OldHook all the time, so he would need some kind of make over.

Pirates are all about finding that fountain of youth...

I wonder if Colin was perhaps hinting at being Old Hook in Season 7 when he did that one panel with A&E earlier this year. He coyly mentioned that there should be a spinoff with Old Hook, so maybe Colin knew that far in advance that that was the direction Season 7 was going. I know Colin is pretty to look at, but I totally wouldn't mind a full season of Old Hook shenanigans.

[RadioGirl27]

3 minutes ago, Curio said:

I know Colin is pretty to look at, but I totally wouldn't mind a full season of Old Hook shenanigans.

I hated Old Hook with passion, it's one of the reasons I have seen only two episodes complete this half season. I hated how they made his disability, his alcoholism, his age and his weigh a joke. So they really need a change there to make it work.

[OnceUponAJen]

The only way I could realistically see the show continuing without Jen but with Colin would be if they focused on Hook's life in the EF before the curse. Honestly,  don't we have enough EQ backstory from that period? That would make Hook the main character,  and I'm not sure if that's what A&E want.  I will be back for Colin if nothing else..... with the occasional JMO appearance, would be nice.

[Souris]

Jen has said she will be back for ONE episode.

[OnceUponAJen]

13 minutes ago, Souris said:

Jen has said she will be back for ONE episode.

I know, but I can hope if they're getting a chance at another season.  She's not likely to be back even as a semi-regular, no.

Edited May 8, 2017 by OnceUponAJen

[justmythoughts]

Without Jen, Colin and Gosh I am certainly out. I have enough EQ, Regina, Rumple and retcons and bad redemptions and magic has a price but only when is convinient... Basically I am done with A&E. 

But... If Colin stays I can't guarante I won't read this foruns and binge watch a few episodes. As many of you said, a normal world with no happy ending for Killian and Emma or them separated even if he is looking for her (with constant help via" talking device" from the Charmings) is not satisfying.  But the wish!verse... May be an interesting option. I would not watch, follow and cheer like now because my love for OUAT is slowly fading away. But It wouldn't piss me up as much as the other options. 

[scenicbyway]

1 hour ago, clairetvfanatic said:

The only way I can see season 7 happening without Snowing and Emma, is a Wish Realm version since they are gone from there anyway. Sean and Lana kinda hinted at things in a recent con and it would keep Colin as Old Hook. 

Except for the part where the writers have said the old storylines are ending and a completely new one would be beginning.  I think it means that they will be gone from Storybrooke.  We know they shot the montage of everyone being happy.  The only one who hasn't really gotten a happy ending is Regina.  Storybrooke is Emma's happy ending, it's where her parents and son and husband are.  Regina's happy ending is in another place and time (probably).

I don't see the wish realm working.  I do think it's the end of the show.  Having the character leave who, the whole concept was based around, means it's a completely different show.  And you can't have Emma having her "happy beginning (really ending)" without Hook. 

If they did continue I could see Hook making a cameo on an adventure or something but it would be a really reduced role, but if you get paid for the season anyway, who cares?

I'm in the camp that Jenn has wanted off the show for a while and Emma getting her Happy Ending last night was the capper for her and the character.  Emma's screen time has been small this year, but I can't help but think that Jenn wanted it that way, she's been directing and editing a movie, has just shot another one and is now doing a Broadway play with another movie to shoot soon.  I hope she gets a break, but that seems like a really full schedule.

I guess we should be thankful they waited till this morning to make the announcement because it would've really put a damper on the wedding.

[Katherine]

Well...this sucks. After last night's episode, I decided that I definitely wasn't ready to say goodbye to this show and wanted a renewal. Now I have to say goodbye. If they renew, I'm sure I'll still watch (as long as Colin is in it), but it won't be the same show I've been obsessing over for the past five years :(

Edited May 8, 2017 by Katherine

[Inquirer]

7 minutes ago, scenicbyway said:

The only one who hasn't really gotten a happy ending is Regina. 

No, Regina has a happy ending.  She has her son, her sister, her victims turned family, control of the town, her magic, her wealth.....

Basically, they killed Robin in order to make Regina a character who proves that a woman doesn't need a man to have a happy ending.

Edited May 8, 2017 by Inquirer

[Serena]

10 minutes ago, scenicbyway said:

Except for the part where the writers have said the old storylines are ending and a completely new one would be beginning.

Well, it could mean the old storylines in SB are ending and a new one (in a different realm, the Wish Realm) is beginning. 

[Rumsy4]

A reboot centered on the Wish Realm would be the perfect solution. One can always have hope...

[SiobhanJW]

With Jen, Josh, Ginnifer, Jared & Emilie all out for Season 7 as per Matt from TV Line, it has to be some sort of adventures in the Past? 

[Inquirer]

So wait, does this mean Rebecca Mader's status is still up in the air? 

But it figures that the villain characters are the only ones A&E are interested in keeping.

[scenicbyway]

4 minutes ago, Inquirer said:

So wait, does this mean Rebecca Mader's status is still up in the air? 

But it figures that the villain characters are the only ones A&E are interested in keeping.

They wanted to keep Emma, she didn't want to stay.  And yes, Bex is probably done as well.

[Sarcastica]

5 minutes ago, SiobhanJW said:

With Jen, Josh, Ginnifer, Jared & Emilie all out for Season 7 as per Matt from TV Line, it has to be some sort of adventures in the Past? 

Oh lord. 

[Souris]

14 minutes ago, SiobhanJW said:

With Jen, Josh, Ginnifer, Jared & Emilie all out for Season 7 as per Matt from TV Line, it has to be some sort of adventures in the Past? 

It also fits with the Wishverse if that Henry is aged up. Snowing and Belle are dead in it, and Emma went back to SB.

But it could also be in the past.

[sharky]

I think going to the past is a bad idea. That's a whole damn mine field of ret-conning. But a wish realm throws out all of the past and gives the writers a clean slate to start from scratch and tell new stories without being encumbered by the other flashbacks they've done.

[maryle]

So, weird even if I knew the real possibility I am still affecting enough to stop working for today. I was more interesting in this stuff than anything else.

Ironically, Robert is still there I was sure he wanted to move on and why he had that big year but it should have been Emma and cs year if they knew.

[CCTC]

I feel kind of sorry for Jared.  Jen is leaving by her choice.  I suspect it might have been a mutual decision for Josh, Ginny, and possibly Emille - "Hey  we are not sure you fit in our story for next year " getting a response -- "Yes -- that has been obvious for about three years.   its been fun."  Of the actors leaving, Jared was probably the one least ready to go -- plus there is a chance his character is actually getting replaced by another actor - if the adult Henry speculation is true.  "Yes Jared, we think you character still has potential, just not with you playing it.  Acting is hard enough as it is -- it has to be tough for a child actor to deal with getting dropped.

[Shanna Marie]

I guess there might be room to center a whole show around Regina and finally get to do the "the place where the Evil Queen gets a happy ending" story they always wanted to do. I just don't see how Hook could fit into that. Let the whole Charming clan plus their pirate mascot go back to the Enchanted Forest while Regina stays in Storybrooke with her sister (or vice versa) and actually do the Regina show officially. Though it would be hard to really do that without Henry, unless they do a time jump and say he's off at college. I can't see these writers actually writing Henry choosing to stay with Emma rather than Regina. But there's not a good, non-depressing story reason to keep Hook around with Emma gone unless he only shows up in flashbacks (and he's showing up so often in Enchanted Forest flashbacks during the time he was supposed to have been in Neverland that he should look a good 20 or more years older than he does). It would suck for Colin to lose his job because his co-worker decided to quit, but that's possibly better for him in the long run to be available at the height of his Hook fame rather than to be tied for another year to a sinking show that's a ghost of its former self and that might even lower his industry profile. It's late for pilot season, but he could have big-screen opportunities.

Though I think this may be the rare case of a show where the most avid fans are actively hoping for cancellation. If they do cancel it, there might be some protests and letter writing campaigns, but for the most part, it sounds like people will be saying it was for the best.

[tri4335]

3 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

It would suck for Colin to lose his job because his co-worker decided to quit, but that's possibly better for him in the long run to be available at the height of his Hook fame rather than to be tied for another year to a sinking show that's a ghost of its former self and that might even lower his industry profile. It's late for pilot season, but he could have big-screen opportunities.

My question for those of you in the business and/or understand how actor contracts work, is he tied to OUAT or ABC?  Could ABC use him on different shows as a guest star and keep him off OUAT?  Would they just end the contract and "fire" him or does he get paid even if not used? I think shoehorning him into the reboot would be a bad idea.

[Serena]

12 minutes ago, tri4335 said:

My question for those of you in the business and/or understand how actor contracts work, is he tied to OUAT or ABC?  Could ABC use him on different shows as a guest star and keep him off OUAT?  Would they just end the contract and "fire" him or does he get paid even if not used? I think shoehorning him into the reboot would be a bad idea.

Colin is tied to OUAT, so if the show doesn't want to use him for next season, they'll simply not "pick up" his option. He doesn't get paid if that's the case. ABC could obviously try to hire him for something else, if they like him and think he has potential. Sometimes actors get deals with networks where the network develops a project for the actor to star in, what are they called... developing deals? I'm not sure. But Colin may also prefer not to be tied up with one network and get out and audition for a few different projects.

Does someone have the character description for the new guy? Did it say someone about him being once full of hope and then becoming bitter, because it could fit with WishWorld!Henry who was full of hope and then in the span of a couple of days, his grandparents were murdered and his mother disappeared.

Edited May 8, 2017 by Serena

[Souris]

Apparently Matt Mitovich also said in his Facebook Live that Jen/Emma was supposed to be a key part of the reboot. So that wouldn't fit for either a prequel or Wishverse reboot. He also said he's interviewing Jen later today.

[RadioGirl27]

25 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

It would suck for Colin to lose his job because his co-worker decided to quit, but that's possibly better for him in the long run to be available at the height of his Hook fame rather than to be tied for another year to a sinking show that's a ghost of its former self and that might even lower his industry profile. It's late for pilot season, but he could have big-screen opportunities.

I feel really bad for him right now, he is either stuck in the sinking boat that is OUAT or unemployed. I also feel really bad for Jared, poor kid.

1 minute ago, Souris said:

Apparently Matt Mitovich also said in his Facebook Live that Jen/Emma was supposed to be a key part of the reboot. So that wouldn't fit for either a prequel or Wishverse reboot.

If this is true, then I guess the show is done.

[KingOfHearts]

No more young!Henry. Maybe there is hope for a decent season yet! Seeing him on a stretcher in the finale will be a great start.

No offense to Jared. I do feel bad for him if they told him he had to leave.

Edited May 8, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Souris]

6 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

No more young!Henry. Maybe there is hope for a decent season yet! Seeing him on a stretcher in the finale will be a great start.

Maybe S7 can just be killing him different ways, like Kenny on South Park! ;-)

I do wonder how much Matt knows that he hasn't written? Is he basing Jen being key to the reboot solely on the contract negotiations and she was one of the four negotiating? Or does he know something more?

Edited May 8, 2017 by Souris

[SiobhanJW]

13 minutes ago, Souris said:

Maybe S7 can just be killing him different ways, like Kenny on South Park! ;-)

I do wonder how much Matt knows that he hasn't written? Is he basing Jen being key to the reboot solely on the contract negotiations and she was one of the four negotiating? Or does he know something more?

He probably knows more. He's been covering OUAT since the beginning and has always gotten good scoops and interviews. 

I know nothing, but if Jen was supposed to feature prominently in the Reboot and that is what they sold to ABC during their discussions for a Season 7 and has now decided to leave on top of some of the other actors leaving as well- they might just cancel it? Or just do a 10 episode Final Season? Especially if they got American Idol for next season, they could have OUAT in the first half on Sundays and then lead into American Idol for the Spring. And also who knows how their other Pilots have fared- it might be cost-beneficial for them to invest in a new show hoping they do well, then to invest in a show that has dramatically decreased in viewers? 

I don't know how any of this works, so I'm just guessing. 

Edited May 8, 2017 by SiobhanJW

[sharky]

It's easier to keep a show with sets and crew and writers that are already there. Also they may run it in the fall as the sacrificial football lamb rather than trying to launch something new there.

I think a wish verse could work without Jen. If they were creating a wish verse knowing contract negotiations may go their way or not, it would be easy to insert whatever characters into that verse. If she's in one episode she can be there to hand wave her previous wish incarnation away. 

[RadioGirl27]

29 minutes ago, SiobhanJW said:

but if Jen was supposed to feature prominently in the Reboot and that is what they sold to ABC during their discussions for a Season 7 and has now decided to leave on top of some of the other actors leaving as well- they might just cancel it?

This is why I think that either Matt is wrong and the reboot was never really about Emma or the show is done. I guess A&E could have tried to sell a reboot of the reboot to ABC, but I can't see a reason why ABC would fall for it.

Edited May 8, 2017 by RadioGirl27

[Shanna Marie]

5 minutes ago, sharky said:

It's easier to keep a show with sets and crew and writers that are already there.

On the other hand, the crew and writers that are already there have become more expensive. If they've been on this show all along, then generally they'll have union-mandated raises or raises built into contracts. The cast that are remaining will have become more expensive unless their hours are drastically cut. That's generally where renewal decisions come in, when a show's declining ratings hit increased expenses. A new show does have some startup costs, but generally the salaries are going to be lower (aside from stars) than for a new show, and the new show doesn't have a ratings track record determining ad rates. Once's ad rates for the fall will be based on this May's ratings, so they'll be limited in how much they can charge. A new show's ad rates will be set based on hope (a combo of judging the star power of the cast, how other shows like it have done, advance buzz, etc.). The trick will be if they have anything new in the pipeline whose hope ad rates will likely be higher than what they can charge based on Once's May ratings.

They'd really be better off calling this the end of the series and calling whatever comes next a sequel or a spinoff. Then they could factor the Once audience into the "hope" ratings but otherwise treat it like an entirely new series.

[scenicbyway]

1 hour ago, Souris said:

Apparently Matt Mitovich also said in his Facebook Live that Jen/Emma was supposed to be a key part of the reboot. So that wouldn't fit for either a prequel or Wishverse reboot. He also said he's interviewing Jen later today.

This is really interesting.  So they offered her a contract, pitched the reboot to the network, network presumably picked it up.  In Jen's fairly recent interviews she talked about wanting to continue on with the show.  It makes me think that something happened between shooting the last episodes and even last week.  We know that her statement was prepared for release today and the writers were ready with a statement, we just don't (and probably won't) know when she made her decision.  We knew Josh and Ginny were basically out at the beginning of March.

If Emma was to be a key character in the reboot, I don't see how it would actually happen now.  It makes me think that the new guy really is adult Henry because that would make it necessary for Emma to be in the reboot.  Obviously her story isn't really wrapped if she's offering to come back for one episode next year.

How unfortunate.

[Kktjones]

I knew it would be, but the press release just confirms that the finale will be a complete re-tread on every account. It could not possible sound more lame!

We literally JUST had an episode LAST NIGHT of Henry cheerleading Emma - do we need another one next week? We JUST had three episodes of Hook fighting to get back to Emma from another realm (not to mention the exact same thing in the S5 finale)!

Edited May 8, 2017 by Kktjones

[Inquirer]

"while Gold tries to find out what has really happened to Belle."

Uh oh, looks like Fiona pulled a double cross, as she only wants her, Rumple and Gideon as a family together without Belle.

Karma's a bitch, Rumple, and so is your mama!

[scenicbyway]

55 minutes ago, Souris said:

Maybe S7 can just be killing him different ways, like Kenny on South Park! ;-)

I do wonder how much Matt knows that he hasn't written? Is he basing Jen being key to the reboot solely on the contract negotiations and she was one of the four negotiating? Or does he know something more?

I would guess he knows a lot more and only what the network has agreed to is published, that's how reporters get access to shows.  If they criticize them, they won't continue to get access to the show or potentially other shows on the network.  He seemed to know that Jenn was leaving at least as of yesterday and I wouldn't be surprised if they let him know last week.

Just now, Inquirer said:

"while Gold tries to find out what has really happened to Belle."

Uh oh, looks like Fiona pulled a double cross, as she only wants her, Rumple and Gideon as a family together without Belle.

Karma's a bitch, Rumple, and so is your mama!

But why doesn't she want Henry too?  Henry is her great-grandson...?

[Inquirer]

2 minutes ago, scenicbyway said:

But why doesn't she want Henry too?  Henry is her great-grandson...?

Henry has no emotional connection to Rumple or Fiona or Gideon, so he doesn't matter here.

[Souris]

5 minutes ago, Inquirer said:

"The Final Battle" Press Release.

ABC misspelled Giles Matthey's last name.

What a giant yawn of a retread of a finale.

[RadioGirl27]

5 minutes ago, scenicbyway said:

This is really interesting.  So they offered her a contract, pitched the reboot to the network, network presumably picked it up.  In Jen's fairly recent interviews she talked about wanting to continue on with the show.  It makes me think that something happened between shooting the last episodes and even last week.  We know that her statement was prepared for release today and the writers were ready with a statement, we just don't (and probably won't) know when she made her decision.  We knew Josh and Ginny were basically out at the beginning of March.

She already talked about leaving with the reporters that where there the day they filmed the wedding. But she was talking about doing more episodes not just one like she says in her statement, so yeah, something might have happened to make her so drastic.

[scenicbyway]

So Emma is the only one who's lost their memory with this new curse?  Convenient.

I wonder why the EF is crumbling?

Why is it that Emma never gets sent back to the EF during a curse eventhough she was born there?  Incidentially, she also met her husband there...

[Curio]

This finale sounds so underwhelming. Part of me just wants to skip all the pointless filler and only watch the final 5 minutes, because you know they're going to cram all of the happy ending montages into those last 5 minutes instead of spending any decent amount of time on wrapping up six years of story.