Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[KingOfHearts]

Backing into Evil Queen would be too easy. She'll be tempted, but I doubt Regina would put on a bad face in front of Henry, Robin and Roland. If she has any chance of getting Robin back, she'll have to keep her "nice" show going. Henry will be there to keep her in check. Regina isn't perfect, nor a complete hero, but her arc in 3B would be for naught if she reverted that quickly. She has Henry, so it's not like she has nothing. I'd be willing to bet she loves him far more than Robin, anyway.

Edited June 4, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Aliasscape]

Wait, I'm confused. Are we mad at Adam and Eddy because they are creating a Regina that will need people to feel sorry for her or a Regina that goes evil again? In this case, I feel like there may be just negativity for negativity's sake since it seems no one is going to be happy no matter how the storyline goes.

How about a storyline that's not about Regina. Or how about Regina feeling bad for her VICTIMS that she caused permanent losses rather than us being expected to feel bad that poor Regina lost her boyfriend? Guess what Regina, you probably killed hundreds of people's boyfriends during your reign of terror. Guess what Regina, people lose their boyfriends every day. How about you deal like a normal person, get some ice cream and hold a romantic comedy movie marathon and leave everybody else out of it.

 

This "Oh no, she might backslide forever if Emma doesn't grovel at her feet from now on!" is total nonsense. And is this seriously going to be competing most important story thread after Storybrooke faces possible eternal winter?

[stealinghome]

Yeah, I have to say that I'm just over Regina at this point. Part of the reason I liked 3a so much pre-Save Henry is that Regina was on the backburner. It's nothing against Lana, but I'm just over the character. I would do the dance of happiness for 7394959 moons if they'd backburner her permanently.

[regularlyleaded]

But going after a guy whose wife you killed, unbeknownst to him? That's just...gross and awful. It's a different kind of new low. I don't want to see it on my screen, and if they want to have any chance of selling me at all on Outlaw Queen/Regina as some sort of redeemed person (barf), it needs to not be the case.

Meh, in season 1 Regina did try to seduce David Nolan/Prince Charming, so I don't think that it would be a new low for her (aside from the moral lows she's discovered with all the murdering and raping and whatnot). Granted, she never actually successfully killed Snow, but willfully trying to seduce someone else's husband is already in her playbook. Personally, I would not consider it a new low if Regina already knew. It would be par for the course. I just don't see her knowing making a difference to her either way.

Edited June 4, 2014 by regularlyleaded

[KAOS Agent]

What I get out of the showrunners' comments thus far is that Rumpel gets the Frozen storyline and Regina gets the whole Marian returns storyline and once again, the Charming family gets the shaft. Dammit can they not come up with a story that features mostly the Charming side? I get that Snow's probably limited for the first few episodes given Ginny just gave birth and they start filming early next month, but seriously, give me a real Emma or David story that has actual punch and isn't them just running around contributing nothing until Regina/Rumpel come along with a magical whatever to save the day. 

[Ariah]

Rumple's complicated past with Elsa... this kind of gives some vibes I would rather not see. Like Elsa being his ex (or another woman in love with the teacher, as Zelena). I'd hate to see that.

 

As for Regina's attitude towards Robin... I have a feeling she could go the "we were destined to be together" route: the tattoo, the fairy dust... But I'm also hoping for Regina to be sidelined -- still I know it's too much to ask from the writers who say people do not care about her murdering a whole village and not having a penny of regrets - but rather that she lost her boyfriend. (Newsflash - I don't care about the boyfriend, they had zero chemistry. I care about redeption story done well. See: Hook)

Edited June 4, 2014 by Ariah

[FAU]

 

This "Oh no, she might backslide forever if Emma doesn't grovel at her feet from now on!" is total nonsense. And is this seriously going to be competing most important story thread after Storybrooke faces possible eternal winter?

 

Yeah, I'm sick of the Poor Regina show and then having Emma lose her powers just so Regina can save the day was just disappointing considering they brought Emma back to help them in the first place.

[sharky]

What I get out of the showrunners' comments thus far is that Rumpel gets the Frozen storyline and Regina gets the whole Marian returns storyline and once again, the Charming family gets the shaft. Dammit can they not come up with a story that features mostly the Charming side? I get that Snow's probably limited for the first few episodes given Ginny just gave birth and they start filming early next month, but seriously, give me a real Emma or David story that has actual punch and isn't them just running around contributing nothing until Regina/Rumpel come along with a magical whatever to save the day. 

Agreed. And this is what I was getting to with my earlier question. I think Regina being mad at Emma is understandable given the circumstances, but I also think that we'll see Regina handle it in a less-than-evil way, which I'm fine with. There's nothing wrong with backsliding a little as long as it's not alot. Plus, Regina still needs to help Emma with her magic and they still to work out their issues with regards to Henry. I do hope there's some Emma/David bonding time as well. I really like their relationship -- MUCH more than Emma and Mary Margaret. And with Hook in the picture now, there could be some great potential for David/Hook interactions.

 

Of course, I'm also buying into someone else's theory from TWoP that Marian may be in lethal peril. Since she was supposed to die in the Enchanted Forest and didn't, I feel like there may have to be something else that gets her dead since she's supposed to be dead. It's kind of a "Final Destination" type situation. So at some point, this Regina/Marian issue is going to be resolved.

 

Also was thinking about this today -- according to Jennifer's Twitter, the show starts filming again on July 9, which is a month away. So we should be getting Elsa casting news shortly, no?

[KingOfHearts]

Agreed on Marian, sharky. This show has been about fate since the beginning. It was Marian's fate to die, but magic stopped her. We all know magic always has a price...

[legaleagle53]

Agreed on Marian, sharky. This show has been about fate since the beginning. It was Marian's fate to die, but magic stopped her. We all know magic always has a price...

Except for when it doesn't.

[stealinghome]

Which is when Rumpel, Regina, and anyone else evil uses it.

When the good guys use it, on the other hand, the price is practically their firstborn! (Sometimes kind of is, in fact.)

[FAU]

Except for when it doesn't.

 

It only applies to certain characters on not to others.

[sharky]

Which is when Rumpel, Regina, and anyone else evil uses it.

When the good guys use it, on the other hand, the price is practically their firstborn! (Sometimes kind of is, in fact.)

Stop it with your TV show logic! Ugh. ;-)

[KingOfHearts]

Marian is considered a good guy, so she'll definitely pay up. 

[legaleagle53]

Marian is considered a good guy, so she'll definitely pay up. 

 

Yeah, she's toast.

[angelwoody]

I do think it's going to end up being that she can't exist in the present time.  Either her presence is tearing at the fabric of the present timeline and she has to choose to go back to save everyone or being plunked into the present "out of time" is slowly killing her because the fabric of the universe is trying to correct the mistake...  or something.  I fully expect it to be some kind of external / 3rd party intervention that will clear the decks for Regina to reconcile with Robin and Roland.

 

I kind of hope I'm wrong because Robin and Marion should be a true love pair, but the writers seem to like to give Regina all of the toys, so who knows.

[FAU]

Marian is considered a good guy, so she'll definitely pay up. 

 

She'll probably be thrown under the bus for Regina, or in her case, her carriage.

[KingOfHearts]

Marian just always seemed fishy to me since the beginning. Regina aside, having your dead wife come back to life via time travel to get a happy ending sounds too good to be true. In a show about letting go of your past, I don't think getting your past back immediately after moving on seems coherent. This is from Robin's perspective, not Regina's.

[Long Days Night]

I do think it's going to end up being that she can't exist in the present time.  Either her presence is tearing at the fabric of the present timeline and she has to choose to go back to save everyone or being plunked into the present "out of time" is slowly killing her because the fabric of the universe is trying to correct the mistake...  or something.

 

 

If Marion were to willingly go back in time to the point that she was pulled forward from, one of two things would have to happen - either:

 

1) she would go back to the same time but a different place - ie, not to the jail cell & thus not killed by Regina.  If she was free in the EF in that time and NOT killed, it would mean that a whole NEW timeline would be created, in which she had never "gone missing" in the first place and she, Robin and Roland were all living together happily from the "Snow Falls" days forward.  So even though this Marion would go back in time, she would still live on to be around in the present as Robin's wife, as having survived death-by-Regina, she would be around for all the curse/postcurse/postpostcurse time that followed her original execution date.  The creation of this new timeline would mean that the present day timeline we watched unfold -- in which Robin was a widower, available to fall in love with Regina in Storybrooke -- would be totally erased and Robin and Regina would never have even dated, let alone been in love.   -- OR --

 

2) she would go back in time to the jail cell just in time to get killed by Regina for one real, true, final death, and everyone in future Storybrooke would know Regina was, for certain sure, the stonecold killer of Robin's wife. 

 

Either one is pretty much a deal breaker for Robin and Regina getting back together at that point.  But I could buy a wasting disease caused by the universe having a horror for things displaced in time. That sounds like a reasonable way to get R&R back together, if that's what the writers are aiming for.  

 

Personally though, I found Regina/Robin to be a total snore, so I'm hoping the Outlaw Queen destiny!lovestory was nothing but a big fake out all along.  With the Robin actor not on contract for next year, I'm really hoping that he isn't going to be a major character because he and Marion will toddle off to a section of the Storybrooke woods where people use pinecones for money and that after that, they never come back into town ever again.  I'd really like this story to be about Regina overcoming an actual, real, no-backsies loss for once, and having to rise above.  Then and only then, do I want to see her test the love waters again, preferably with someone much hotter and with tons more chemistry than the Robin guy had.

[Serena]

It's strange that they haven't announced that Robin is gonna be a regular next season, if that is indeed their plan. I distincly remember that both Belle and Ruby for season 2, and Neal for season 3, were announced as regulars for the next season as soon as the previous season ended. Michael Socha was announced as a regular as soon as his show ended.

In theory, Sean could get another offer from somewhere else and not be available if they don't lock him up in a contract. That's the problem they had with Robin #1. However, if they did offer him a regular contract, why wait so long to announce it? It's not their usual MO, and they have to know that if they announce it nearer to the beginning of filmed, it'll totally be eclipsed by the Else casting announcement.

This whole thing is weird.

[sharky]

I wonder if that is the case. Perhaps they got burned giving Michael Raymond-James a regular listing and then deciding it wasn't going to work. Or perhaps they're fleshing out the storylines and haven't decided how involved he's going to be yet.

[pezgirl7]

I just read that the movie Colin is filming is "a 12 day shoot, starts June 7, 2014". So yea, he won't be missing any OUAT filming.

[Shanna Marie]

Based on what they established on Wonderland, they have precedents for things going either way with Marian. There was a character whose life was saved by magic even though she was fated to die, and that caused all kinds of trouble. But there was also a character killed by the bad guy who was revived even after they set the rules of magic right again (which make it impossible to use magic to raise the dead) because the bad guy had killed her before it was her fated time, and she had to live to set things right.

 

So there is the possibility that Emma saving Marian could cause all sorts of problems because she was fated to die. But there's also the possibility that in killing her in the original timeline, Regina altered Marian's rightful fate, and Emma moving Marian ahead in time set things right without altering the original timeline. It sounded like Marian was in a wrong place, wrong time situation, since she believed her family already thought she was dead, so maybe she wasn't supposed to have been in that village, so she wasn't supposed to have been arrested and executed. Was fate fixing things through Emma being arrested and thrown into the cell next to Marian?

[stealinghome]

Given that the writers worship at the Altar of Our Lady Regina, there's just no way Marian is long for this world. I would bet money that Marian dies by the end of the season, and I think it's likely we're in for a "Final Destination" storyline with her.

[Shanna Marie]

Given that the writers worship at the Altar of Our Lady Regina, there's just no way Marian is long for this world. I would bet money that Marian dies by the end of the season, and I think it's likely we're in for a "Final Destination" storyline with her.

Yes, and then Emma will learn a valuable lesson about consequences, while Regina yet again learns that no matter what she does, she'll get everything she wants, even if it's at the expense of everyone around her who hasn't done evil things.

 

Those sensible pantsuits must have a Teflon coating.

[YaddaYadda]

I get that R&R are supposed to be the show's endgame, but I don't really get why they even brought Marian.  They should have left her dead or presumed dead or whatever she was supposed to be.

 

Also seems like Regina is basically the default winner on this one.  The only reason she gets to be with Robin is because his wife likely dies.  The way I look at this is so much for "true" love.

[legaleagle53]

It's also what happened with Meghan Ory and Ruby/Red.  Meghan was specifically promoted to series regular for the second season, and Red was supposed to have a much bigger story arc than she actually did (possibly including a bit of Frankenwolf), but the writers got so hung up on PLOT PLOT PLOT regarding Our Lady of Perpetual Woobification (that's Regina to you) that they forgot all about Red until Meghan finally asked Adam and Eddie point-blank what was going on and whether she needed to be looking for another job. THAT really pissed her fans off, especially since Red's absence in scenes that she should logically should have been a part of was never explained.

[angelwoody]

 

It's also what happened with Meghan Ory and Ruby/Red.  Meghan was specifically promoted to series regular for the second season, and Red was supposed to have a much bigger story arc than she actually did (possibly including a bit of Frankenwolf), but the writers got so hung up on PLOT PLOT PLOT regarding Our Lady of Perpetual Woobification (that's Regina to you) that they forgot all about Red until Meghan finally asked Adam and Eddie point-blank what was going on and whether she needed to be looking for another job. THAT really pissed her fans off, especially since Red's absence in scenes that she should logically should have been a part of was never explained.

This is one of the reasons why I wish TPTB would focus more on including and expanding on the secondary characters, rather than bothering with one-off episodes for Disney characters we're never going to see again (I'm looking at you, Rapunzel).  They already have a treasure trove of stories they could build around existing characters or at least expand the focus to include participation and reactions of secondary characters.

Edited June 5, 2014 by angelwoody

[sharky]

This is one of the reasons why I wish TPTB would focus more on including and expanding on the secondary characters, rather than bothering with one-off episodes for Disney characters we're never going to see again (I'm looking at you, Rapunzel).  They already have a treasure trove of stories they could build around existing characters or at least expand the focus to include participation and reactions of secondary characters.

I sort of agree. They could've done some great things with Repunzel or Aurora or even Cinderella, but we get random flashbacks with Medusa or some nonsense. At the same time, I wish they would stop bringing secondary characters in. They had to kill Neal if only to focus on their core. And now they seem to be in a pattern of a new baddie every half season. Why can't we just spend a half season focused on existing characters?

[Rumsy4]

 

Why can't we just spend a half season focused on existing characters?

 

The show has always brought in fresh fairy tale characters to make brief appearance in the Show, though. I don't think that's going to change. They do tend to give far too much backstory to their main (Regina, Rumple) and seasonal villains for the short time we see them (Cora, Pan, Zelena), while they neglect giving proper backstories to characters like Emma, and not enough significant screentime to deepen the main characters they already have. That is the problem with being plot-driven, and being more interested in getting a shiny new toy to play with all the time! 

[stealinghome]

I sort of agree. They could've done some great things with Repunzel or Aurora or even Cinderella, but we get random flashbacks with Medusa or some nonsense. At the same time, I wish they would stop bringing secondary characters in..... And now they seem to be in a pattern of a new baddie every half season. Why can't we just spend a half season focused on existing characters?

Yeah, I think this is a delicate balancing act. One of the things that I actually think 3a did well was refocusing the story--which had gotten pretty dispersed by the end of S2--back on our core characters (even if imo it's still too Regina-heavy), and 3b generally kept that focus, even if I think that they gave Zelena a little bit too much airtime. If we're going for 1 Big Bad every 11 episodes, I really think we only need 1 episode focusing on that Big Bad. (In fact, if you remember, back in S1, Regina actually only had 2 episodes and Rumpel 3, and one of those was "split" with Belle--which gives them both roughly 1 episode 11, which seems to me to be the right ratio.)

 

What the show needs to do, imo, is return to its S1 commitment to having a stable of second-tier characters around and to developing those characters, but not at the expense of the core cast. They did it well with Ruby and Grumpy and Granny, and to a lesser extent Kathryn/Abigail and even someone like Jefferson, in S1, and I think they tried in S2 with Belle and Whale, though ultimately that was less successful. So I think the problem lies both in the revolving door of secondary characters due to actor (un)availability and, often, in the writing for the secondary characters they've brought on--I mean, Sleeping Warrior ship teases aside, have they developed Mulan or Aurora or Philip or Ariel or Eric or Robin or even Tink or (the most laughable of all) Greg and Tamara? No. Yet those people keep popping up again and again and kind of might as well be cardboard. I don't mind having a few one-offs per season, I feel like that's to be expected, but the show hasn't done well by its recurring players for a while now.

 

but the writers got so hung up on PLOT PLOT PLOT regarding Our Lady of Perpetual Woobification (that's Regina to you) that they forgot all about Red until Meghan finally asked Adam and Eddie point-blank what was going on and whether she needed to be looking for another job.

I've actually always thought that Ruby got shelved in the back half of S2 because the writers were retooling everything to prepare for Neverland. They probably already knew at that point that Ruby wasn't going to be going to Neverland, so I'm sure the thought process was "well, then why waste time on Ruby when we could be ~developing such ~menacing villains as Greg and Tamara?" I'll let y'all judge as to whether that was a good or bad calculation....

Edited June 5, 2014 by stealinghome

[myril]

Making it about fate, destiny, the simple fairy tale solution (the universe rights things, right) is in my view the convenient, conservative, but more importantly easy way out of an interesting, complex dilemma they created for the characters with bringing Marian into the present time. Find the destiny babbling by Rumple and Neal straining, as Snow with her naive love-will-always-find-a-way mantra is annoyingly boring, and all of it is limiting story potential and character development.

 

It was a potential, an idea I found intriguing when the show started, in season 1: to confront fairy tale characters with rich, complex worldly challenges and stories, which can't be shrugged off with some magic or are rather easily solved by simplified ideas of good and evil. I know, by now we rushed through Neverland and Oz though and are all so covered with magic and pixie dust, that we should be in some sort of wacky waking dream all time, not noticing the standstill of character development, and just having a laughing fit when stumbling into one of the plot holes.

 

Where would be the development in the character of Regina if fate or destiny will see to it that Marian will be taken out of her way anyway? Or if Regina just falls back into her evil own self?

 

So there is the possibility that Emma saving Marian could cause all sorts of problems because she was fated to die. But there's also the possibility that in killing her in the original timeline, Regina altered Marian's rightful fate, and Emma moving Marian ahead in time set things right without altering the original timeline. It sounded like Marian was in a wrong place, wrong time situation, since she believed her family already thought she was dead, so maybe she wasn't supposed to have been in that village, so she wasn't supposed to have been arrested and executed. Was fate fixing things through Emma being arrested and thrown into the cell next to Marian?

 

Funny, you bring it up. Questioned that like 2 days ago as well in another forum. Who can tell what Marian's destiny is or was? Destiny and time travel are ingredients for plenty of headaches and plot holes and confusion.

 

 

More than MRJ, I would compare Robin to the Belle situation. Both iconic good characters, the writers "rewrote" them as love interests for one of their fave baddies, but they have no actual interest in them as individual character or in their relationship with the "bad guy" outside of the initial "twist" (Rumple is the Beast! Robin and EQ are true love!) and what they can do for Rumple/Regina's so-called character development. It's clear to me that they regretted making Belle a regular because they have no idea how to deal with her or with Rumbelle, but they don't feel like they can get rid of her without causing a huge shitstorm.

 

I wouldn't read to much into the contract status of an actor or actress for story development. Regular means the actors have to be available, which is nice for the showrunners, they don't need to consider availability that much, but it's not always that desirable for the actor, because they are bound, although in agreement they could work on other things as well, but priority is clear. It offers certain income for a time, and good one, but on the other hand you might want to stay free to work on other projects on your own terms. Some people are rather more happy with recurring guest star status, reasons are not always on the side of the showrunners. Having a contract as series regular doesn't make anyone main cast per se by the way, still can be a supporting character.

 

Meghan Ory had a contract as regular, that means she was paid for being available, not just for acting. Of course actors normally want to act and develop their skills further and not just sit around waiting for new scenes to be written, so she asked them about their plans and they were so fair to let her go. It sounds sometimes in commentaries as if there was some betrayal or conflict but I would be very cautious about reading that into what Meghan Ory said in the Interview with Keck. They got the right to work with the stories of Peter Pan, they changed their plans for season 2, and Red/Ruby had not much place in that. It was sure unfortunate, and I am a big fan of the character Red as quite a fan of Meghan Ory, very much missing more story about Red (making her the wolf was brilliant), but we shouldn't make more of it than it was. That they rushed so into Neverland like they did was a bad choice and was done at the expense of a more coherent character development of all characters and interesting stories of some characters like Red, agree on that impression. 

 

We're fishing very, very hard for the tiniest bit of information at the moment, and so do some TV news site. There are not really spoilers to work with, just speculation and theory, and opinions and judgement about the show and it's writing so far.

Edited June 5, 2014 by katusch

[formerlyfreedom]

We're fishing very, very hard for the tiniest bit of information at the moment, and so do some TV news site. There are not really spoilers to work with, just speculation and theory, and opinions and judgement about the show and it's writing so far.

 

, you make an excellent point here. I'm seeing a lot of discussion of Past Seasons, and some Speculation on the upcoming season, while this is the Spoiler topic. Let's wipe the slate clean, and from here on out, discuss things in the proper topic, please! If it doesn't belong in the Spoiler topic, it will be moved going forward.

 

Thanks, all!

[formerlyfreedom]

Okay, first posts have been moved - if you posted above here, and it was not a key post to this conversation, it may be moved along with new posts. If it seems a piece of conversation has been moved, it's very likely it has been.

[Serena]

Rejoice, we got Outlaw Queen spoilers!

After all the build-up of Once Upon a Time‘s Regina and Robin being soul mates, please tell me that we aren’t all the sudden going to find out that the lion tattoo is really common and Robin really wasn’t the man in the pub. –Megan

I’ve seen that “theory” floating around, yeah, but Once cocreator Adam Horowitz shot an arrow right through it when I ran it by him. “No, no, no…. That [flashback scene] was not a misdirect,” he reassures. “The man Regina saw in the tavern with the tattoo was Robin Hood.”

Megan and I have two very different definitions of "build-up".

[retrograde]

All right, first actual spoilerly spoiler of the season, via TV Line:

 

TVLine has learned that casting is now underway for the aforementioned conflicted ice queen — who was glimpsed (and played by a stand-in) at the close of Season 3 — as well as her sister Anna and ice merchant Kristoff. Elsa will appear in approximately nine episodes, the others a bit less. 

 

 

Definitely looks like they're actually going to show them in Arendelle. And if Elsa is late 20s/early 30s, and Kristoff is living in the Castle, some years must have passed since the movie.

Edited June 7, 2014 by retrograde

[RadioGirl27]

All right, first actual spoilerly spoiler of the season, via TV Line:

 

 

Definitely looks like they're actually going to show them in Arendelle. And if Elsa is late 20s/early 30s, and Kristoff is living in the Castle, some years must have passed since the movie.

So, if Elsa is late 20s/early 30s that rules out Elisabeth Mitchell (Hooray!!!).

Anyway, if they are setting 4a some years after the movie, maybe Elsa was trapped in that urn because something happened to Anna and her powers went wild. So, at first our heros will think she is bad, but they will find the truth and help her find her sister (because Disney will never let them kill Anna) and go back home.

[CatMack]

Late 20s/early 30s works perfectly for me to continue my campaign for Alona Tal.

[sharky]

And my nerdy heart would love to see Yvonne Strahovski. So many good actors can take that role so stop mentioning Elizabeth Mitchell!

[Souris]

OK, that tells us that it's post-movie. It definitely stands to reason that something happened to Anna. I would guess Elsa was urned up because she was starting to lose control of her powers again in reaction to that. Probably most of Anna/Kristoff will be flashbacks. I do not think that Disney will let them kill Anna, even if they wanted to, so I think that ultimately she will be found and the sisters reunited. I'm still rather intrigued by the similar urn on the Jolly Roger (while admitting it could be of no significance at all), so I wonder if that's where Anna is.

 

I hope 4A isn't TOO much All About Elsa. I care about the regular characters more than the guest stars, so I hope they don't forget who's really important on this show.

 

There's nobody I particularly want to see cast. I just don't want it to be stunt-casting. So I'd prefer people not particularly well-known who are great actors.

[Camera One]

I hope 4A isn't TOO much All About Elsa. I care about the regular characters more than the guest stars, so I hope they don't forget who's really important on this show.

I agree... I wouldn't hold my breath, though. Peter Pan and Zelena got way too much screentime, and by extension, Rumple and Regina respectively. I suppose it would all depend on which main character Elsa is paired with (or related to DNA-wise, knowing this show). If it's Rumple or Regina again, then it'll be similar to 3A and 3B.

We know that one connection would be Rumple with Elsa since her urn was in his possession. Maybe he and Elsa will together learn to "let it go", since the writers indicated Rumple will be learning to deal with Neal dying. Maybe both Elsa and Belle will be in love with Rumple, and he too can get the romance treatment like Regina did in 3B.

Regina will probably be busy with the Robin/Marion triangle, so hopefully she's out.

Emma will probably be having adventures with Hook.

Snow and Charming will probably alternate babysitting, maybe given the comic relief D plots where the baby vomits all over them, or they have to change a diaper. Hilarity ensues. Not.

Edited June 7, 2014 by Camera One

[stealinghome]

There's nobody I particularly want to see cast. I just don't want it to be stunt-casting. So I'd prefer people not particularly well-known who are great actors.

Agreed. I think the casting people are great at finding gems (Robbie Kay and Dylan Schmid and Bailey Madison and Meghan Ory jump to mind). This is not to say that I don't enjoy stunt casting sometimes--I liked Bex Mader as Zelena and I'm sure she got the job from her LOST connections with Adam and Eddie--but by and large I've been more impressed with the people the casting crew finds than the stunt-casts we've had. Plus, I think it would be kind of weird for one of Elsa/Anna/Kristoff to be a Big Name, and the other two to be virtual unknowns. But surely they won't all be known, so. (Although with that said, ultimately I hope they pick whoever is right for the roles. If that's a Name, then so be it. It's just that I often feel that the Names aren't the best fits for the roles.)

 

9 episodes for Elsa and say 7 for Anna and Kristoff isn't too bad, actually. Part of the reason both Peter Pan and the Wicked Witch wore out their welcome a bit was because they both appeared in every damn episode of 3a and 3b. If you figure that at least 1 of Elsa's appearances will probably be a glorified cameo, that will give us some breathing room and hopefully allow for a little more focus on the main characters than 3b had (3a was generally fine in that regard but there was way too much Zelena in 3b). Of course, the cynical part of me says they only want Elsa for 9 episodes because she's not actually a villain, so they're less interested in her!

 

It won't ever happen, but if they have to be on the family tree--which I hope they're not--I would love for Elsa/Anna to be distantly related to Charming. He'd be like "but I thought I had the normal family! The boring, non-magical, non-potentially-lethal one!"

[retrograde]

I suppose it would all depend on which main character Elsa is paired with (or related to DNA-wise, knowing this show). If it's Rumple or Regina again, then it'll be similar to 3A and 3B.

I think it will be Rumple (and, to a lesser extent, Belle), but I also suspect Emma and Hook will be involved in this plot. The showrunners have already specifically mentioned the "heart freezing" thing, so I'd be pretty shocked if that doesn't happen to someone, and my money would be on Hook -- though I guess it could also be tied to the Regina/Robin/Marian thing.

[stealinghome]

Actually, heart freezing might be a great way to sideline both Charming and Snow for a few episodes, if Ginny and Josh want more time with the new baby. The writers have said that they want to explore what it means for Snowing to share a heart now, so when they mentioned the heart-freezing thing, that's immediately where my mind went. That one of them will get their heart frozen and it will put both out of commission, or endanger both, etc.

[Camera One]

9 episodes for Elsa and say 7 for Anna and Kristoff isn't too bad, actually.

Are they doing "Frozen" for the entire season? That might be better than 2 completely separate arcs like in 3A and 3B, which required double the setup and thus double the screentime for the villain. The complex part in this case is Elsa isn't even a real villain, so they will need a new "big bad" in the back-half anyhow.

 

I also suspect Emma and Hook will be involved in this plot.

I think so too.

Actually, heart freezing might be a great way to sideline both Charming and Snow for a few episodes, if Ginny and Josh want more time with the new baby.

Unfortunately, they'll be sidelined no matter what they want.

Edited June 7, 2014 by Camera One

[RadioGirl27]

Are they doing "Frozen" for the entire season? That might be better than 2 completely separate arcs like in 3A and 3B, which required double the setup and thus double the screentime for the villain. The complex part in this case is Elsa isn't even a real villain, so they will need a new "big bad" in the back-half anyhow.

I was thinking something like this. If we are right and someone has taken Anna, he/she can be the "big bad" in 4b.

[Camera One]

How much do you think the "Frozen" plot will actually be influenced by the movie?  I know that they've promised to not full-fledge villainize Elsa, but how much of the original story do they need to consider it "Frozen"?

 

With Neverland and Oz, we got a few things, but definitely nothing close to the elements of the original story--in some cases, just a name drop or two. 

 

I could see them aging up Elsa and Anna--and playing out whatever bits of the movie they want to.

Replying in Non-spoiler speculation.

[retrograde]

Nothing in that casting notice suggests a major departure. I'm not sure Disney would let them do anything too radical with the property right now.

[daxx]

Didn't Adam confirm at some point that season 4 would be a split season just like season 3?  I think he did.

So that would make sense actually Elsa in 9 out of 11 episodes for season 4a.

Edited June 7, 2014 by daxx

[stealinghome]

Didn't Adam confirm at some point that season 4 would be a split season just like season 3?  I think he did.

I think he did, yeah. Though iirc it was on Twitter, so nothing "official."

 

Worst case scenario is Cora had another child and it's Elsa, LOL.

Shh, don't even joke about that, the writers might hear you!