Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[mjgchick]

So does that mean Emma will be Selena's bodyguard? lol

[Writing Wrongs]

 

Also, Elizabeth Mitchell is a regular now on Crossing Lines, currently filming its third season.  Her availability is doubtful.

That show was done filming a while ago.

[KingOfHearts]

This has probably already been commented on, but it's interesting to see Zelena back in her Wicked Witch outfit in the promo. Somehow when they return, she'll be back in her Mute Handmaiden costume and anti-magic cuff. 

 

I can't wait to see Team Storybrooke versus Arthur, Merlin and Zelena, but it'll be really crammed when Sisterhood of the Traveling Hoods takes wing.

 

 

This season has been great, but I have a feeling it will make a lot more sense to watch it all together vs. week to week.

Replying in All Seasons.

Edited November 11, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Souris]

So Hook's dad is now shaved & not looking piratey.

[HoodlumSheep]

Why would Colin's screentime be small if the arc is centered around him? What do you think Hook is just gonna be sleeping while everybody is trying to save him? You don't think he's gonna be interacting with other characters like Hades, his father, Hercules, Megara, etc and trying to find his own way out of the Underworld?

I'd be down for something ala Cylice from Wonderland (or 2a,3a), where Hook is capable of rescuing himself for the most part.

So Zelena's pregnancy accelerates? Creepy. Is it going to be like Into the Woods with the baker's wife? That means 5x13 could include the birth of baby green (better sooner than later in my opinion).

[Souris]

I'd be down for something ala Cylice from Wonderland (or 2a,3a), where Hook is capable of rescuing himself for the most part.

 

Oh, yes, handling it like Cylice would be great!

[chrisvee]

Ok Emma must have one of two plans now that the sword is reforged: 1. get someone to cut the darkness out of her with it (and end the Dark One lineage entirely either dedarking her or killing her outright in the process) or 2. get someone to cut the light out of her so she can become the all powerful Dark One who is no longer tethered to the dagger and subject to being killed or controlled.

If #2 was her goal and Hook is Dark in the next episode, there would be no story left to tell -- Hook would be untethering Emma not fighting Rumple -- he's just poof on out of scene to get to Ems and everyone would be screwed.

I think Emma's goal is #1 and she confides enough of what happened to get Hook to help her but holds back the key info -- that she needs to die and can't be saved. So eventually Hook susses it out and takes her place.

Edited November 11, 2015 by chrisvee

[KingOfHearts]

 

So Zelena's pregnancy accelerates? Creepy. Is it going to be like Into the Woods with the baker's wife? That means 5x13 could include the birth of baby green (better sooner than later in my opinion).

Hmm... Where will that leave Zelena? Why would Regina keep her alive after that? Oh right... this show.

 

 

 

Oh, yes, handling it like Cylice would be great!

 

Lol, I never liked Cylice. I was on team Scarlet Queen. It would be cool if we found out Jafar died and he's in the Underworld too... or Anastasia is trapped there as well, so Will thinks she's dead.

Edited November 11, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[OnceUponAJen]

With all these dead villains guesting in 5B, this could really be good for some great character exploration, especially for Hook and Emma. I'm going to temper my expectations, though!

[KAOS Agent]

Going back to the Rumpel discussion of earlier, I suspect that Rumpel in his new found Hero status is still quite power hungry. He's got the knowledge and now he thinks that if he controls Excalibur and kills the Dark One with it, he'll be the most powerful and wonderful hero ever. Except of course that heroes don't kill and Rumpel's motives aren't pure. He's been easily seduced by power before. I don't really see him being the hero of the piece. He's also holding the dagger and walking without a cane and Belle has seemingly left town in the finale. If he'd been a true and brave force for good, why isn't she there?

[YaddaYadda]

He's been easily seduced by power before.

 

The way he's looking at the globe/orb is the same way he looked at Merlin's hat when he found it in the mansion.

 

Maybe that's the thing Arthur and Zelena set forth to find, although it is in Merlin's tower, so I have no clue.

Edited November 11, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[chrisvee]

So if Arthur commands Merlin to kill someone and he does, does that darken Merlin? While can of worms opened here with tethering a good guy...

[HoodlumSheep]

Hmm... Where will that leave Zelena? Why would Regina keep her alive after that? Oh right... this show.

Lol, I never liked Cylice. I was on team Scarlet Queen. It would be cool if we found out Jafar died and he's in the Underworld too... or Anastasia is trapped there as well, so Will thinks she's dead.

I'm also Team Scarlet Queen (I probably like them more than Cylice), but I also love Cylice and am Team Knalice-is-the-ultimate-Once-brotp. I was more pointing out the structure of Wonderland (similar to 2a and 3a). Wonderland was presented as "save cyrus." However, Cyrus was not treated as a complete damsel in distress and was still proactive on his end of events (he escaped himself). Eventually they reunite and together with the rest of the gang they work together to defeat Jafar.

I'd love to see the same thing with CS. Both proactive trying to reach each other, they eventually reunite and defeat the bad guy.

And Jafar should still be trapped in the genie bottle. :)

Edited November 11, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[scenicbyway]

I wonder if Zelena's price to pay for tethering Hook (or Merlin really) to Excalibur is an expedited pregnancy?

[YaddaYadda]

And Jafar should still be trapped in the genie bottle. 

 

Was he sent to the Underworld?

[Mari]

Pregnancy mysteriously accelerates, I'm thinking Emma might be behind it to be honest.

 

If she gives birth, why would Robin ever go to the Underworld with everyone else? Is Zelena at the end of this arc? Does she have her baby, or is the baby with someone else?

 

Maybe "Birth" refers more to Dark Swan being born than the baby being born?

Well, Robin is also the concerned parent who okayed using his preschooler as Shadow bait and had no qualms whatsoever about introducing his preschooler to his new girlfriend, the same person who'd killed her both of the last two men she was involved  with, one of them before spending the next thirty-odd years torturing his daughter that she'd step-parented, and seems just fine leaving the aforementioned preschooler with his merry men for weeks on end.   I don't think he'd have any problems having Little John do double duty on the babysitting.  Especially if Regina wants him to go along.

 

The birth thing could refer both to Emma and the baby. 

 

 

Was he sent to the Underworld?

He was tapped as a genie, I think for not returning the water from the magic well.

[HoodlumSheep]

Was he sent to the Underworld?

Maybe? He was genie-fied then his bottle was zapped away. So maybe it landed in the Underworld? That would be a strange place to send the bottle though.

I find it interesting how Elliot describes Arthur. He talks of how Arthur watched him do magic and make potions, etc. but Merlin's been stuck as a tree? He could have done astral projection like he did with Emma though. Also it makes it sound like they knew each other pre-treeing, but that'd be impossible time-line wise. Some of the stuff seems weirdly worded. I'm going to have to reread the interview.

I'd be cool if hey kept merlin around. I can see him keeping his powers be a problem though, because it would turn into a Shady Blue situation where we'd wonder why he doesn't fix all the problems with his awesome powerful magic. He'd either have to be side-lined a bunch, or de-magic-fied. I'd love to see him hang around longer than 5a though.

***I just noticed; Sinqua Walls isn't listed in either of those episodes. So, they bust him out of jail, and he literally vanishes??? What gives? The only thing acceptable is that Merlin sent him on a quest for something that'll help them in offscreensville. Also, I'm going to be mad if they retcon how Ruby ended up in Camelot/EF. And no, chalkin it up to her randomly appearing from upstairs in Granny's doesn't work.

Edited November 11, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[Rumsy4]

I am going to hold on to a faint hope that Merlin doesn't die, but instead becomes mortal and loses his magic like he wanted. I know... I know... his heart was most likely crushed to cast the Dark Curse, but I can pretend for the next 5 days, can't I? :-p

Edited November 11, 2015 by Rumsy4

[chrisvee]

I feel like all of the puzzle pieces are there and if we just lay them out on the table we'll see the full picture...

Arthur comes into the last Camelot ep with Zelena as his partner in crime, the sword fragment controlling Merlin, the Nevengers at his mercy, and knowledge that Emma has the dagger & spark to reforge Excalibur.

He believes he needs Excalibur to kill Merlin and restore Camelot (audience, Merlin, and Emma know that she can kill Merlin as well). So Arthur is going to attack Emma or blackmail her into releasing the dagger & spark as we saw in the promo.

We know because of the spoiler pic plus the SB arc that Emma defeats Arthur since she has the sword fragment before it is placed back in the stone plus Zelena is cuffed and she/Arthur have memories removed in SB.

We also know Emma doesn't reforge the sword in Camelot -- why? How and why was the sword fragment taken from her and put in the stone and by whom? Do only Merlin and Emma have that power?

Likely explanation for me is that Emma holds off Merlin when Arthur orders him to attack but Hook is mortally injured taking the sword fragment from Arthur. Then Emma takes Hook off to heal him, returns to the group, but they/Merlin fears she's gone full dark and he puts Excalibur in the stone.

Or Emma puts it in the stone herself but I have no idea why unless she is forced to kill Merlin then heals Hook then knows she can't save herself since the darkness is too far into her soul and comes up with this elaborate plan to get back to SB and force someone to kill her with Excalibur.

But I do know that if Emma went full dark after healing Hook In Camelot then I don't see how they could have stopped her from reforming Excalibur and cutting herself free of the dagger so I think good Emma is still driving the bus back in SB.

[HoodlumSheep]

I am going to hold on to a faint hope that Merlin doesn't die, but instead becomes mortal and loses his magic like he wanted.

Then he decides to join the Storybrooke gang...and sticks around for 5b (and the rest of the show).

Elliot's interview gives me hope that he might not die. It's hard to tell, but I have hope that Merlin lives.

[PixiePaws1]

***I just noticed; Sinqua Walls isn't listed in either of those episodes. So, they bust him out of jail, and he literally vanishes??? What gives? The only thing acceptable is that Merlin sent him on a quest for something that'll help them in offscreensville. Also, I'm going to be mad if they retcon how Ruby ended up in Camelot/EF. And no, chalkin it up to her randomly appearing from upstairs in Granny's doesn't work.

in the new promo I think he is standing like he is frozen or 'mind controlled' while the SBers are all tied up and Emma fighting Merlin. Someone with better eyesight could confirm.

[scenicbyway]

I feel like all of the puzzle pieces are there and if we just lay them out on the table we'll see the full picture...

Arthur comes into the last Camelot ep with Zelena as his partner in crime, the sword fragment controlling Merlin, the Nevengers at his mercy, and knowledge that Emma has the dagger & spark to reforge Excalibur.

He believes he needs Excalibur to kill Merlin and restore Camelot (audience, Merlin, and Emma know that she can kill Merlin as well). So Arthur is going to attack Emma or blackmail her into releasing the dagger & spark as we saw in the promo.

We know because of the spoiler pic plus the SB arc that Emma defeats Arthur since she has the sword fragment before it is placed back in the stone plus Zelena is cuffed and she/Arthur have memories removed in SB.

We also know Emma doesn't reforge the sword in Camelot -- why? How and why was the sword fragment taken from her and put in the stone and by whom? Do only Merlin and Emma have that power?

Likely explanation for me is that Emma holds off Merlin when Arthur orders him to attack but Hook is mortally injured taking the sword fragment from Arthur. Then Emma takes Hook off to heal him, returns to the group, but they/Merlin fears she's gone full dark and he puts Excalibur in the stone.

Or Emma puts it in the stone herself but I have no idea why unless she is forced to kill Merlin then heals Hook then knows she can't save herself since the darkness is too far into her soul and comes up with this elaborate plan to get back to SB and force someone to kill her with Excalibur.

But I do know that if Emma went full dark after healing Hook In Camelot then I don't see how they could have stopped her from reforming Excalibur and cutting herself free of the dagger so I think good Emma is still driving the bus back in SB.

I like the idea of Hook going after Arthur for the sword. So Emma defeats Merlin but he's still alive. Then Hook goes after the sword but iswounded by Arthur, Emma gets there just a little too late or perhaps she's distracted by Zelena. Emma heals Hook but the price turns Emma dark. Emma calls Nimue forward she crushes Merlin's heart and the gang goes back to Storybrooke?

The thing is, why does a heart have to be crushed? Storybrooke already exists.

I feel like all of the puzzle pieces are there and if we just lay them out on the table we'll see the full picture...

Arthur comes into the last Camelot ep with Zelena as his partner in crime, the sword fragment controlling Merlin, the Nevengers at his mercy, and knowledge that Emma has the dagger & spark to reforge Excalibur.

He believes he needs Excalibur to kill Merlin and restore Camelot (audience, Merlin, and Emma know that she can kill Merlin as well). So Arthur is going to attack Emma or blackmail her into releasing the dagger & spark as we saw in the promo.

We know because of the spoiler pic plus the SB arc that Emma defeats Arthur since she has the sword fragment before it is placed back in the stone plus Zelena is cuffed and she/Arthur have memories removed in SB.

We also know Emma doesn't reforge the sword in Camelot -- why? How and why was the sword fragment taken from her and put in the stone and by whom? Do only Merlin and Emma have that power?

Likely explanation for me is that Emma holds off Merlin when Arthur orders him to attack but Hook is mortally injured taking the sword fragment from Arthur. Then Emma takes Hook off to heal him, returns to the group, but they/Merlin fears she's gone full dark and he puts Excalibur in the stone.

Or Emma puts it in the stone herself but I have no idea why unless she is forced to kill Merlin then heals Hook then knows she can't save herself since the darkness is too far into her soul and comes up with this elaborate plan to get back to SB and force someone to kill her with Excalibur.

But I do know that if Emma went full dark after healing Hook In Camelot then I don't see how they could have stopped her from reforming Excalibur and cutting herself free of the dagger so I think good Emma is still driving the bus back in SB.

I like the idea of Hook going after Arthur for the sword. So Emma defeats Merlin but he's still alive. Then Hook goes after the sword but iswounded by Arthur, Emma gets there just a little too late or perhaps she's distracted by Zelena. Emma heals Hook but the price turns Emma dark. Emma calls Nimue forward she crushes Merlin's heart and the gang goes back to Storybrooke?

The thing is, why does a heart have to be crushed? Storybrooke already exists.

[ParadoxLost]

We know because of the spoiler pic plus the SB arc that Emma defeats Arthur since she has the sword fragment before it is placed back in the stone plus Zelena is cuffed and she/Arthur have memories removed in SB.

How do we know they aren't faking?  I find it hard to reconcile memory loss for Arthur/Zelena with Arthur knowing how to use a potion that leaves Zelena's trademark residue.  Knowing what Zelena did in Camelot also calls into question Zelena's motivation for turning down Dark Swan's deal. 

I lean towards a stalemate or Emma retreating to SB and wiping everyone she cares about and Zelena/Arthur using Merlin to get back with just their memories intact.  Emma is letting the fiction stand to keep Snowing and Hook out of the line of fire.  Same reason she picked Rumpel to pull the sword instead of a real hero.  No risking poofing those she cares about.  I think we have to assume that people turning into trees outside of the town line is Emma keeping Merlin, Arthur, and Zelena contained using Nimuae's memories.

 

 

Going back to the Rumpel discussion of earlier, I suspect that Rumpel in his new found Hero status is still quite power hungry. He's got the knowledge and now he thinks that if he controls Excalibur and kills the Dark One with it, he'll be the most powerful and wonderful hero ever. Except of course that heroes don't kill and Rumpel's motives aren't pure. He's been easily seduced by power before. I don't really see him being the hero of the piece. He's also holding the dagger and walking without a cane and Belle has seemingly left town in the finale. If he'd been a true and brave force for good, why isn't she there?

 

I think that the reason Rumpel is involved in all this is that they don't want the Dark One power gone.  They have Hook fighting him while his name is on Excalibur because eventually they are going to exclaim light and dark must exist and Rumpel will 'heroically' take the Dark One mantel to spare Emma the burden.

[Shanna Marie]

The rampant speculation would be so much easier if they'd just release the promo photos for this week. But knowing our luck, they'd all be from the side trip adventure of Mulan Rouge Squared and no good for helping discern the real plot.

 

I think that the reason Rumpel is involved in all this is that they don't want the Dark One power gone.  They have Hook fighting him while his name is on Excalibur because eventually they are going to exclaim light and dark must exist and Rumpel will 'heroically' take the Dark One mantel to spare Emma the burden.

I'm afraid that's likely because it's such a "have your cake and eat it too" scenario in which they get to keep Rumple dark and villain-like but also get to call him heroic and give Belle a reason to stick with him.

 

Though it did seem like light did pretty well without darkness before Nimue went dark. Merlin was lonely, but he seemed to be pretty happy just doing good. It didn't seem as though the universe was out of balance. There was obviously some darkness, with whatever Merlin was running from and the village slaughter, but it wasn't as though the magical side of things was out of whack without a Dark One.

[chrisvee]

How do we know they aren't faking?  I find it hard to reconcile memory loss for Arthur/Zelena with Arthur knowing how to use a potion that leaves Zelena's trademark residue.  Knowing what Zelena did in Camelot also calls into question Zelena's motivation for turning down Dark Swan's deal.

It's already been established that Emma was creating dream catchers in Camelot to take memories out of people's heads, that she has a large supply in SB, and that the dream catchers do indeed have the lost memories. I can't see how Zelena/Arthur would have escaped that fate especially since Emma managed to re-cuff Zelena.

[Shanna Marie]

I go back and forth on whether Arthur's faking the lost memories. He was already shady and knew he was up to no good before the "memory break." He seems to have already known that he didn't want David getting that mushroom, so even if he didn't remember the mushroom quest in Storybrooke, he'd have known what it was for and that he didn't want them using it. On the other hand, if he had his memories, it seems like he'd have been even sneakier, doing more behind their backs while he believed they still trusted him -- unless he is doing that and they aren't showing us. But it seems like he told them the truth about what Emma might want with the sword and as I recall he was honest about it being the other part of the dagger, when if he'd had memories and knew they didn't, he could have pretended not to know that. He's not really acting like someone who knows he was foiled before and is getting a second chance or like someone who won before and was foiled at the last second by a reboot.

[ParadoxLost]

It's already been established that Emma was creating dream catchers in Camelot to take memories out of people's heads, that she has a large supply in SB, and that the dream catchers do indeed have the lost memories. I can't see how Zelena/Arthur would have escaped that fate especially since Emma managed to re-cuff Zelena.

 

Did I miss a spoiler or promo that has Emma cuffing Zelena?  If not, Zelena could have cuffed herself to play some long con with Arthur.  Its the green magic when Arthur disappeared that Camelot guy n the Sheriff station that I can't reconcile if both Zelena and Aruther have memory loss.  It has to be a Zelena potion because they don't deviate magic color.  So if Arthur doesn't remember any of his scheming with Zelena, then how does he know how to use it / what it does?

[chrisvee]

Did I miss a spoiler or promo that has Emma cuffing Zelena?  If not, Zelena could have cuffed herself to play some long con with Arthur.

Since Dark Emma has all of her own memories and likely all of Zelena's memories (Emma wasn't fooled by the Snowing sanding due to the dream catcher), I'm deducing that Zelena couldn't be pulling that con on Dark Emma.

[retrograde]

They're filming in Steveston again on Friday, 10 am to midnight. I guess it'll be the second episode of the season, so could be some indication of how long they're staying in the underworld. 

[YaddaYadda]

So I'm assuming the curse comes barreling down on everyone during 5x09. I'm guessing Arthur, Zelena, are back in Camelot after they found whatever they needed, and Mulan, Red, and Merida are in hot pursuit.

 

I've been wondering if Hook even knows what Emma did for him in Camelot. Like he's out of it over there, and wakes up inside Granny's with everyone else, not knowing he almost died/died, and what Emma did to save him.

[OnceUponAJen]

I've been wondering if Hook even knows what Emma did for him in Camelot. Like he's out of it over there, and wakes up inside Granny's with everyone else, not knowing he almost died/died, and what Emma did to save him.

From the looks of that picture with them in the middlemist field again, it looks like Killian was mortally wounded, and she poofed them there to heal him. I'm not sure if he'll be aware that anything was wrong after he wakes up, which I'm assuming he wakes up in Camelot before the curse is cast. It seems like the plot would be: Emma saves Hook and the Nevengers from Arthur & tethered Merlin, heals Killian, casts the curse.

I guess it could also be possible the curse was cast and while it's bearing down on them, Emma is in the middlemist field tethering Killian to Excalibur. However, his name doesn't appear to be on the blade yet in SB.

Edited November 11, 2015 by OnceUponAJen

[kili]

Who is Whale introducing himself to? I'm assuming it has something to do with the "Accelerated Pregnancy" and "Birth", but he's already met Regina (who is also in the scriptease) and the prospective parents (he met Robin Hood when Little John turned into a flying monkey - now that was a little frenetic, but surely the people in the room talked about what happened afterwards) and Zelena (who the last time he saw her was zapping him dramatically onto a couch and when he woke up, the baby he had just delivered had been stolen).

 

The actor probably has his iZombie hair because which is actively filming in Vancouver at the same time. It's a very white blonde.

 

I guess it'll be the second episode of the season, so could be some indication of how long they're staying in the underworld.

I think that the description seems to indicate that they are not still in the underworld or at least not in Underbrooke since they have to re-route traffic just to set the broken clock tower up.  Plus, they need a lot longer to set up the city for it (although, I guess they are faster the second time and they may have left a lot of the sets/signs up from the previous week of filming. And they don't need the Moncton scenes until 2 pm).  Or maybe Underbrooke got fixed up a little.

Edited November 11, 2015 by kili

[chrisvee]

It seems like the plot would be: Emma saves Hook and the Nevengers from Arthur & tethered Merlin, heals Killian, casts the curse.

I guess it could also be possible the curse was cast and while it's bearing down on them, Emma is in the middlemist field tethering Killian to Excalibur. However, his name doesn't appear to be on the blade yet in SB.

Neither Killian's name or Merlin's name are on it in SB so presumably your sequence of events is correct plus something happened to get Merlin's name off. Only two ways have been presented for that -- person is killed with the weapon or reforged Excalibur cuts them away. Since there's no evidence that the blade was reforged in Camelot...Merlin's likely dead. Best case he's alive but de-magicked?

Also if curse was on its way during the healing scene, there would also need to be time to get sword fragment from Emma and into a stone under Emma's possession -- less likely than your first scenario.

The question for me is why Emma would not have reforged Excalibur in Camelot. And if she paid the price to heal Killian by killing another or if that is the need for the tethering in SB.

Edited November 11, 2015 by chrisvee

[Rumsy4]

Aw... Elliot Knight gives good interviews, even if he managed to reveal basically nothing. haha. The comments section was a joy (not).

I wonder what his favorite moment will turn out to be! The magic battle with Emma? Or something else? Nothing he said gives me hope that Merlin makes it alive at the end of this half-season. Sob!

His hint about what it cost Zelena to tether Merlin to Excalibur makes me think it has something to do with Z's accelerated pregnancy.

Some people think the CS kiss in the promo for Nimue was actually from Birth. That one seems to take place in the Middlemist field, and Hook is wearing the Survivor Ring again. So, it could well be that Emma revives him, they kiss, and further shenanigans ensue.

[HoodlumSheep]

Whale was never formerly introduced to Zelena, so maybe he's introducing himself now? Maybe she's only seen nurses at this point? I don't know.

[OnceUponAJen]

Another thought inspired by that spoiler pic. It looks like there's some darkness attached to the blade as Emma is kneeling over Killian. I wonder if maybe she's absorbing the darkness in his heart so that he can be tethered to Excalibur later? That would contribute to her going full dark. I'm guessing the speculation that Nimue uses her to.kill Merlin is accurate.

[RadioGirl27]

 

I'm guessing the speculation that Nimue uses her to.kill Merlin is accurate.

Emma telling Merlin that Nimue still loves him seems to point there. I would hate to loose him, but better his heart that Killian's.

[pezgirl7]

I'm a bit bummed that Whale is returning in the same episode as Ruby, but they probably won't even have any scenes together since she's off on some stupid adventure with a guest character no one seems to care about.

 

In the photo of Hook laying down in the flowers, does it look like he's levitating? The angle is just odd, and the bottom half of Emma's body almost looks under Hook.

[mjgchick]

It feels like Emma's getting punished because she refuses to go dark. I really hate this show sometimes.

[kili]

I'm a bit bummed that Whale is returning in the same episode as Ruby, but they probably won't even have any scenes together since she's off on some stupid adventure with a guest character no one seems to care about.

I know. That relationship had such a great start. If the un-curse sent Ruby and Whale to their original realms and the Ruby didn't get back to SB, it would be sensible for Whale to move on. Maybe he finally found out if the nuns can now date (I'm thinking Blue still says "No"). I have no idea why they insist on giving us so much backstory on Merida. 

 

I hope we get to meet Prince James in Underbrooke. He's got enough villain cred and there is a lot of scope for the imagination for the two brothers to finally to meet. Plus, it's not like they can't get the actor.

Edited November 11, 2015 by kili

[Mathius]

I'm a bit bummed that Whale is returning in the same episode as Ruby, but they probably won't even have any scenes together since she's off on some stupid adventure with a guest character no one seems to care about.

 

Actually, that's not true. Whale is in "Birth", Ruby appears in the episode afterward, "The Bear King".

 

So I'm assuming the curse comes barreling down on everyone during 5x09.

 

No, that should be in 5x10, titled "Broken Heart" (A&E have made it clear someone's heart had to be crushed.)

 

So for flashbacks, we have:

 

5x08 - Emma becomes the Dark Swan.

5x09 - Merida, Red & Mulan vs. Arthur & Zelena.

5x10 - The curse is cast, Camelot story ends.

5x11 - Hook & Regina adventure (featuring Papa Jones)

Edited November 11, 2015 by Mathius

[LizaD]

 

Nimue uses her to.kill Merlin

 

I think it's the other way around, that Emma uses Nimue to kill Merlin. Otherwise where's the "gut wrenching" decision? That's why she chose to go dark, because she has to fully let Nimue in for it to work. Merlin practically threw anvils at her all day long last episode. It just didn't happen the way he thought it did, like these things with prophecies usually go.

 

I think it'd be a nice call back to Snow and her Cora's candle dilemma. Snow couldn't take a life to save her mom and I don't blame her cause she was a 10 year old kid. That's pretty rough and dark. Emma without the DO has been known to cross the lines for people she loves. This is just more dangerous and has big potential to backfire because now she's a threat to them too. But I also think the writers will write in a technicality for Merlin's death and that's why EK said Merlin's not bound to time or space like the others are. Maybe Merlin could be Hook's head voice like Nimue is to Emma.

 

So Zelena does give birth in the next episode?

[Mathius]

Maybe Merlin could be Hook's head voice like Nimue is to Emma.

 

Shit. Given things Elliot Knight has said and the fact that Merlin was tethered to the sword...that would make sense.

[Shanna Marie]

I know. That relationship had such a great start. If the un-curse sent Ruby and Whale to their original realms and the Ruby didn't get back to SB, it would be sensible for Whale to move on.

But Ruby did get back to Storybrooke in Curse 2.0. She was there in the diner at the Snowflake naming ceremony, chatting with Hook and the Charmings about how Snow and David met. So I have no idea where they're going with throwing Ruby into the mix.

[scenicbyway]

I'm a bit bummed that Whale is returning in the same episode as Ruby, but they probably won't even have any scenes together since she's off on some stupid adventure with a guest character no one seems to care about.

 

In the photo of Hook laying down in the flowers, does it look like he's levitating? The angle is just odd, and the bottom half of Emma's body almost looks under Hook.

 

Whale and Ruby won't be in the same episode, but I think the plan is that Mulan and Ruby have a relationship or did in the recent past.  There's no indication that we'll actually see Ruby and Mulan in Storybrooke.  They appear to just be helping Merida.

Hook is laying at an awkward angle, but I don't think he's levitating.  It make sense that she'd poof them back to the Middlemist field.

 

 

It feels like Emma's getting punished because she refuses to go dark. I really hate this show sometimes.

Yeah, I don't understand this either.  She's fought so hard, took on the darkness to save everyone and the result is she has to kill the most powerful wizard of all time and lose her true love.  Why show? Why?  Meanwhile, her parents, specifically Snow, have sat around Camelot and Storybrooke not helping really.  At least Charming had a spark of wanting to help in both places.  Regina has decided that Zelena is suddenly trustworthy and listens to her despite her better judgment.  Robin's there to hold Regina's hand and Belle, Granny and the dwarves are only around part of the time with no one concerned.  Hook has consistently been the only proactive character (Henry is excused, because what can he really do?).  If I were Emma I'd pack up Hook and head for the Jolly to sail away with some sort of custody arrangement worked out for Henry.  It's evident these people don't really care about her.

[PixiePaws1]

Killian can't be tethered to the sword if his name isn't on it. Perhaps she 'froze him in time' in some way as if he is out of step like the original Dark Curse froze everyone until she can get him safely tethered to the sword. Like he is a fixed point or time moves at a snail's pace only for him.

I am also beginning to wonder if the middle mist flower is tied to him in some way....like the rose that Belle had for Rumple. I think the one she was holding in SB shows his 'state' ... I thnk a drop of that dissolving potion of Arthur's is making it's way into Killian's heart (hence the chest grabbing in the promo and I bet his heart is in that box that Emma and Zelena are carrying in those pics that just popped up) I don't think sentiment is the reason she has his apparently mostly dead self there with the sword hoodoo going on. The flowers have been popping up everywhere through the story and their origin for these particular ones were fast forwarded by Merlin...sound familiar with Zelena's baby.

OMG...she has fast forwarded everyone's life force to funnel it into Killian to keep him alive (almost like the Weeping Angels if you know Dr Who) until they can fix his heart and Emma wants to tether his soul to the sword to keep him safe because she can't lose him.....sound feasible????

Edited November 11, 2015 by PixiePaws1

[Mathius]

At least Charming had a spark of wanting to help in both places.

 

The problem with Charming (aside from his brief ego trip in both places) is Snow and how the writers refuse to allow him to be proactive on his own outside of her.  If Snow isn't going to put in effort, then apparently neither is Charming.  

 

Henry is excused, because what can he really do?

 

Henry has been really inconsistent.  Some episodes, he's clearly worried for his mom, and is trying to help her and do the best he can for her (5x02, 5x06).  Other episodes, it seems he couldn't give a damn (5x01) and only approaches her when he needs something from her (5x05 in the present).  Other times it's almost as if there isn't any problem with Emma whatsoever and she and Henry interact as normal (5x04, 5x05 in the past).  Oh Henry, why are you so poorly written?

Edited November 11, 2015 by Mathius

[Rumsy4]

The episode stills for Birth look great! One of these days, Hook will be tied up in a good way I hope. :-p Hook seems to be getting free in one of the pics where Arthur is forcing Merlin to choke Snow. I guess Hook gets the broken half of Excalibur away from Artie and gets mortally wounded by Merlin (?) in the process.

Is that ornate box the next deus ex machina?

Edited November 11, 2015 by Rumsy4

[InsertWordHere]

I also thought it looks like Hook might get free.

 

What is the telescope pointed toward? And if there's a telescope, why is Hook using his spyglass?

[HoodlumSheep]

I thought the box was the hat box for a minute, but that should still be in Storybrooke.

There's a weird vibe with those CS pics. Killian seems angsty, but Emma seems to have a genuine Emma smile in one of them, but they kiss and we know Killian wouldn't partake in that while Emma is the DS(unless something happened)...so would those images be before or after she tells him what happened in Camelot?

Hmmm....