LizaD September 28, 2015 Share September 28, 2015 This definitely supports Mulan being one half of said romance. Did people reall have doubts about it being Mulan? Because LBGT romance-story, Mulan-LBGT character coming back didn't scream, hey it's about Mulan? With the timing of Ruby's return too, I wouldn't be surprised if it was Mulan and Ruby. I wonder when they'll set it up, in the 5A finale or ep. 9? So far there's been no filming reports of Jamie or Megan right? Link to comment
mjgchick September 28, 2015 Share September 28, 2015 I wonder why they need them to have amnesia. Whatever happened during those six weeks Dark Swan or who ever still have their memories must want to hide something. How shocking would it be if Emma and Hook randomly got married during the horse back ride. Actually that would be rude so never mind. Link to comment
YaddaYadda September 28, 2015 Share September 28, 2015 They will regain their memories. It just means that whatever secret Emma is keeping now, they already knew about. Sort of explains why A&E said she's keeping a secret from the audience. Link to comment
retrograde September 28, 2015 Share September 28, 2015 Did people reall have doubts about it being Mulan? Well, spoilers indicated that Mulan would be back in 5A but that the storyline wouldn't happen until 5B. I think some were/are suspicious Disney would really go there with a canon "princess," too. I think spoilers said that some familiar faces would be back for... the finale? Or thereabouts? And that it would set up next season. So I guess Mulan will show up around then and be back for 5B, which perhaps indicates a Robin Hood-centric season. Link to comment
HoodlumSheep September 28, 2015 Share September 28, 2015 (edited) it was interesting they offed Sir Kay in the first few minutes. Haven't we seen a young/and grown-up version of him in episode spoilers? I suppose we'll see his evilness/dislike for Arthur grow throughout the flashbacks, but what was the point of having him as a character if he gets offed a few minutes into the premiere? And Arthur and the rest of his knights didn't seem to care at all? What was the point? Am I missing something? Edited September 28, 2015 by HoodlumSheep Link to comment
Shanna Marie September 28, 2015 Share September 28, 2015 I'm still going with the theory that the "Dark Swan" we saw in the time jump is an act, and the reason for the memory spell is that the others have to be made to believe it's real, and they wouldn't if they remembered. Heck, they may even be in on the plan. For whatever it is to work, or maybe to protect them, they have to act as though they believe she's full-on Dark Swan, and the only safe way is to make them believe by wiping their memories. That's the secret she's hiding from the audience. 5 Link to comment
formerlyfreedom September 28, 2015 Share September 28, 2015 The memory wipe and time jump are now fact, not a spoiler. This discussion should be taking place in Speculation, please. Link to comment
HoodlumSheep September 28, 2015 Share September 28, 2015 I think the Dark Swan might be an act too. The promo for episode 2 seems to support the theory. Why else would an evil Emma be yelling at Regina to do her job as the new town saviour? It makes no sense. Her pretending to be evil seems kinda cruel towards the others though. Maybe some of them will catch on if that's the case. Link to comment
Mari September 28, 2015 Share September 28, 2015 I think the Dark Swan might be an act too. The promo for episode 2 seems to support the theory. Why else would an evil Emma be yelling at Regina to do her job as the new town saviour? It makes no sense. It might be an act, but it could also be Emma taunting Regina with her new "hero" status. Link to comment
Serena September 28, 2015 Share September 28, 2015 Yeah, I'm voting that it's an act too. Depending on whether or not Arthur, who's supposed to show up in SB next episode (correct?), has his memories, it could be him they're trying to fool (because he's shady) or maybe Merlin. If Arthur needs Emma to go dark in order to Bla Bla Bla Plot Device, because he needs to reunite the dagger and Excalibur (maybe Emma is actually the prophetized ruler of Camelot? Once the Savior Overcomes the Darkeness, etc - so Arthur has been trying to get Emma to succumb all along!) - then maybe they hatched this plan in order to fool him. And they all need to lose their memories because... Merlin can read minds? So he'd know if they were faking it? Except Emma's, of course. 3 Link to comment
retrograde September 28, 2015 Share September 28, 2015 Episode 2 also has a ball, which I'm hoping will be great. It will be cool to see all the characters finally at a ball together (even if it isn't under the greatest of circumstances). Link to comment
KAOS Agent September 28, 2015 Share September 28, 2015 (edited) We know that Arthur & David have a bromance. If Arthur is shady and only looking to fix Excalibur, he could be getting close to David to earn his trust and then trick him into screwing over Emma to get the dagger. On a better note, I seriously hope all that taunting Emma was doing in the promo about Regina being the new Saviour continues past a few scenes. I would love it so much if Emma poofs in just to laugh at them all failing in trying to fix whatever's gone wrong once an episode. Jen did say in that interview that Emma isn't the one causing all the chaos in the first part of the season, so my idea of the Dark One grabbing some popcorn and watching Regina/Robin/Snowing flail about doing nothing productive could come to pass. Edited September 28, 2015 by KAOS Agent 4 Link to comment
PixiePaws1 September 28, 2015 Share September 28, 2015 (edited) Sorry think this needs to go to the Speculation thread...will move when i get to my pc...so sorry Well...I have a theory (& I actually called the Hook talking Ems down when she's about to crush Merida's heart so that's likely my ONLY one I'll get right but here goes anyway). I think the dagger & Excalibur have to both go back into the stone to be rejoined. That is the moment Merlin warned Emma about. Don't take the sword out when it has been remade whole. Based on the line from that THR super spoilery article; 'What she thinks they did to her' My theory is Arthur (who has seen what happens if the wrong person tries to pull the sword) either tricks friends and family into getting Emma to try and pull the sword or tricks Emma into THINKING they got her to pull the sword...but instead of going "poof' like Kay she suffers something pretty unpleasant. I don't think that is what sends her dark because that line says to me is that Emma has gone full dark because she is mistaken about something her family has done. I do believe it was her choice. ..but for the wrong reason... which would be so, so heartbreaking and add to her guilt about her actions (or inactions). I hope I am wrong...I hope she is playing bad for the right reasons. ..but wasn't it mentioned in the ep that that isn't a good enough justification for doing bad things? Edited September 28, 2015 by PixiePaws1 2 Link to comment
YaddaYadda September 28, 2015 Share September 28, 2015 it was interesting they offed Sir Kay in the first few minutes. Haven't we seen a young/and grown-up version of him in episode spoilers? I suppose we'll see his evilness/dislike for Arthur grow throughout the flashbacks, but what was the point of having him as a character if he gets offed a few minutes into the premiere? And Arthur and the rest of his knights didn't seem to care at all? What was the point? Am I missing something? Younger Kay is in 5x04 as far as we know, so we won't be seeing the last of him. I'll have to do a rewatch of the episode, I think the sword according to the prophecy was really meant for Arthur, but it seems like it actually destroys people with ill intent? Link to comment
PixiePaws1 September 28, 2015 Share September 28, 2015 Maybe it's just me but in the new sneak peek I get the very strong feeling that Emma and Regins havr cooked up this memory curse together....perhaps it's JMos delivery or the language used but it all sounds very laboured or false.... I got a vague impression that Emma actually NEEDS the memory curse broken and by Regina. Although the words would indicate the opposite. Link to comment
Serena September 28, 2015 Share September 28, 2015 Oh, yeah. The more Emma says "you'll never break the curse!!" the more I believe Regina is going to do just that. 1 Link to comment
YaddaYadda September 28, 2015 Share September 28, 2015 Oh, yeah. The more Emma says "you'll never break the curse!!" the more I believe Regina is going to do just that. She's given her a challenge so you know what the end result of that will be. Emma basically just absolved Henry from any wrong doings. The way she seems to be with Hook in the BTS, I wonder if she won't absolve him too. Am I the only one getting the impression that she has it out for her mother and Regina? Link to comment
Serena September 28, 2015 Share September 28, 2015 Emma basically just absolved Henry from any wrong doings. The way she seems to be with Hook in the BTS, I wonder if she won't absolve him too. Am I the only one getting the impression that she has it out for her mother and Regina? Jennifer said last night that Dark Swan's weaknesses are Henry and Hook and her love for them. It wasn't "her love for her family" but specifically for Henry and Hook. So, yeah, either they weren't part of whatever happened to her, or they were but she's decided to forgive them? 2 Link to comment
sharky September 28, 2015 Share September 28, 2015 Jennifer said last night that Dark Swan's weaknesses are Henry and Hook and her love for them. It wasn't "her love for her family" but specifically for Henry and Hook. So, yeah, either they weren't part of whatever happened to her, or they were but she's decided to forgive them? I can totally get behind that, especially based on the new 5x02 preview. It sounds like Dark Emma is really hung up on this idea that everyone relied on her to be their savior. It reminds me very much of that speech in season 4 when she was going on about how she was sick of being the savior. Hook is one of the few people who hasn't really harped on her about it the way her parents and the town have. And while Henry harped on it, he's also her son so I think she may give him a little more of a pass. Also, we've had quite a few spoilers about Captain Cobra playing more of a role this season -- and JMo mentioned Henry and Hook specifically. I wonder if the two of them joined together to do something in Camelot that the others didn't. Hell, after that whole "We can't control her. She needs to make this decision herself," scene, I wonder if perhaps Hook and Henry got the dagger back from Regina to give to Emma, which snowballed into something else. It could play into the theory that this is all an act, but I don't believe that. The way Jennifer is playing Dark Emma makes me think she is very real and very serious about what she's doing. 1 Link to comment
Curio September 28, 2015 Share September 28, 2015 The more Emma says "you'll never break the curse!!" the more I believe Regina is going to do just that. It's been painfully obvious since the interviews at Comic-Con. Adam & Eddy can deny it all they want, but if they're always so concerned about not wanting the audience to know any of their big "twists" and #nospoilers, then maybe they shouldn't drop giant plot anvils like this all the time. The way Jennifer is playing Dark Emma makes me think she is very real and very serious about what she's doing. I agree. I'm a bit apprehensive about Dark Swan faking all of this because, quite honestly, I don't think this show is that subtle or complicated. Jen could pull off the acting part of it, but I don't know if the writers can. Link to comment
HoodlumSheep September 28, 2015 Share September 28, 2015 (edited) So Emma says there is something evil/bad coming to town. Arthur and his gang? This is why I'm suspicious of her being really evil. Why would she even warn Regina or taunt her, when we know that Regina's personality will cause Regina to try stepping up to the plate? My problem is is that I don't want Emma pretending to be evil (even if it's for a good cause) and making her family and friends suffer only to be like, "the plan worked! Sorry, not really evil!" It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. So I'm weary about what's going to happen. I wonder if it'll be a good thing to get the Regina-centric out of the way so soon (even though most episodes are pretty much Regina-centric, and she always has like 80 of them per season). Edited September 28, 2015 by HoodlumSheep Link to comment
Selina K September 28, 2015 Share September 28, 2015 Sneak peak - blah blah savior ... blah blah Regina ... blah. Sorry, but Jmo is killing it. I am loving her Dark Swanness. The icy coolness is a great contrast to the theatricality of Carlyle and the furious anger of Parilla. That confrontation wasn't as fun as the chainsaw in season 1, but really great to finally not have Emma puppy dog looking for Regina's acceptance or whatever we had in S4. 3 Link to comment
Writing Wrongs September 28, 2015 Share September 28, 2015 What is that drawing in the promo of? Link to comment
YaddaYadda September 28, 2015 Share September 28, 2015 Episode 5x09: The Bear King https://twitter.com/AdamHorowitzLA/status/648503128938049536 About Arthur or Merida? What is that drawing in the promo of? What drawing? This is to show how little attention I actually pay. Link to comment
FierceAfroChick September 28, 2015 Share September 28, 2015 (edited) Haven’t had a chance to watch the episode yet, waiting on Hulu. But I did look at the sneak peek and I’m struck by the way Jennifer has pitched her voice low. She actually sounds sort of distorted and I wondered if they’d used some sort of audio device, but nope, that’s all her. Love it and love that she’s all low key and cool with her Darkness instead of chewing scenery and delivering her lines through clenched teeth. Too bad this show is not on HBO…I’d love to see this cool, NFTG DarkSwan in a sex scene with Hook. And for good measure, contrast it with flashbacks to a White Swan/Hook sex scene. Edited September 28, 2015 by FierceAfroChick Link to comment
Writing Wrongs September 28, 2015 Share September 28, 2015 (edited) Merida's father was The Bear King, so it's probably her backstory. The drawing looks like a screaming vampire woman or something. Edited September 28, 2015 by Writing Wrongs Link to comment
mjgchick September 28, 2015 Share September 28, 2015 I'm confused on whether Emma is really angry at her family (Probably Snow did something because these writers seem to hate her.) or if Emma is faking it and is really trying to protect her loved ones to the extreme. 1 Link to comment
Rumsy4 September 28, 2015 Share September 28, 2015 I loved the new Sneak Peek. I don't think Emma is faking being Dark. But I do think she has an agenda. She seems to be manipulating Regina to be the "savior" in that scene. She was definitely not referring to herself when talking about the new threat in town. I had enough of Emma's kicked puppy expression around Regina in Season 4. So this is a nice change. 7 Link to comment
LizaD September 28, 2015 Share September 28, 2015 Wait so it really is a redo-curse times 3? I thought even with the amnesia and realm jumping that it wasn't a curse because hello, they can get to Storybrooke in other ways now. If it is one then I don't think DS cast it and it should be obvious to the crew no? Even if they are complete idiots? I mean Henry is still alive and breathing and annoying the crap out of me. Maybe Arthur cast it using Lancelot's heart and since they love that copying and pasting key, Emma flies in at the last moment on her broomstick and adds in her special ingredient. Lancelot is missing in Storybrooke even though he's clearly part of the Camelot crew. I don't think Emma is faking it purely because the writers want to make her a villain and a bigger evil than you know who. I also don't think the crew did anything wrong and Emma is mislead into thinking they did. Either that or Snow fucked up, cause you know it would have to be Snow and only Snow but then it'll still be Emma's fault anyway. I conclude this all from past storylines of course. I hope Emma's new hobby is pumpkin carving. Wasn't she spotted in a pumpkin patch? I'm sure there's a Disney jack o'lantern tie in available somewhere. Then they can hawk it on the ABC store. Link to comment
Free September 28, 2015 Share September 28, 2015 I don't think Emma is faking it purely because the writers want to make her a villain and a bigger evil than you know who. I really think that too, only they wanted to switch places for a while, have Emma be a DO and Regina be the Savior for this story, even the sneak peek seems to allude to this. 1 Link to comment
KingOfHearts September 28, 2015 Share September 28, 2015 I loved the new Sneak Peek. I don't think Emma is faking being Dark. But I do think she has an agenda. She seems to be manipulating Regina to be the "savior" in that scene. She was definitely not referring to herself when talking about the new threat in town. I had enough of Emma's kicked puppy expression around Regina in Season 4. So this is a nice change. I liked that Regina and Emma were sort of at odds over Henry in that scene. It had echos of S1 when their relationship was at its finest. I believe Emma is doing a little bit of faking, but not entirely. She's hiding an agenda that's probably more selfish than it is to save her loved ones. If Emma was all good-intentions, I doubt she would stone Sneezy or A&E would keep going on about how selfish she is. I'm guessing what she's hiding directly has to do with her taking Excalibur despite Merlin's warning. How that ties in with Arthur taking it in the premiere I have no idea. Link to comment
HoodlumSheep September 28, 2015 Share September 28, 2015 (edited) Maybe the drawing is forshadowing Nimue? The Bear King? I wonder if this will be the episode where we see King Fergus die. The only thing i'm looking forward to next episode (based on that promo) is Emma yelling at Regina. And hopefully CS stuff. It also looks like Charming might be starting his bromance with Arthur? *this is our second to last episode title for 5a, right? Something big/crazy/nonsensical has to happen in it. Edited September 28, 2015 by HoodlumSheep Link to comment
RadioGirl27 September 28, 2015 Share September 28, 2015 I don't like the idea that Emma is faking it, it would be so anticlimactic. But, on the other hand, one of the themes of the season is "things are not what they seem". The Bear King is definitely Merida's backstory. There was a spoiler a few weeks ago about her parents appearing in episode 9. 1 Link to comment
YaddaYadda September 28, 2015 Share September 28, 2015 Merida's father was The Bear King, so it's probably her backstory. So Merida would get 2 episodes dedicated to her? That's kind of fucked up! So much for the core characters, because who gives a fuck if Fergus gets resurrected from his untimely death or not? The drawing looks like a screaming vampire woman or something. Oh that! I think it's the fury, that big bad that's coming. 1 Link to comment
KingOfHearts September 28, 2015 Share September 28, 2015 (edited) The Bear King is definitely Merida's backstory. There was a spoiler a few weeks ago about her parents appearing in episode 9. So Merida gets to have the penultimate episode? It sounds like the Ingrid's flashbacks in Emma in 4x10. By that time, we're not going to care about her story any more. We'll all be itching to get the conclusion on the Dark Swan/Camelot stuff. Can't Merida have an adventure episode with Belle and leave it at that? It seems A&E completely forgot about Lily. You'd thinking being Emma's former "BFF" and having her darkness inside her would make her at least partially relevant to the Dark Swan plot. Edited September 28, 2015 by KingOfHearts Link to comment
YaddaYadda September 28, 2015 Share September 28, 2015 Not for nothing, but the name Arthur sort of means Bear King, so there really are two options here. I don't see what kind of role Fergus has to play in any of this. It makes no sense. 2 Link to comment
sharky September 28, 2015 Share September 28, 2015 So Merida gets to have the penultimate episode? It sounds like the Ingrid's flashbacks in Emma in 4x10. By that time, we're not going to care about her story any more. We'll all be itching to get the conclusion on the Dark Swan/Camelot stuff. Can't Merida have an adventure episode with Belle and leave it at that? The difference here is that I don't think we're going to have flashbacks in this half season. They have to cover their time in Camelot and their time in Storybrooke so I think it may be more similar to 3B with the flashes to what everyone was doing after Pan's curse took them back. So I'm assuming the main cast will still be involved and it won't be a flashback dedicated solely to Merida. Link to comment
HoodlumSheep September 28, 2015 Share September 28, 2015 Not for nothing, but the name Arthur sort of means Bear King, so there really are two options here. I don't see what kind of role Fergus has to play in any of this. It makes no sense. Maybe Arthur is Mordu? It would be kind of tricky if people go into the episode thinking it has something to do with Merida's dad, and then have it be about Arthur. Link to comment
LizaD September 28, 2015 Share September 28, 2015 The casting call for Merida's parents was for ep.9 wasn't it? Also I'm pretty sure Merida's story is linked to Rump's. Saw somewhere that the actress on twitter said she had loads of stuff with Rump. Maybe they can squeeze Mulan and/or Ruby into Merida's backstory since they have to show up in ep. 8,9, or 10. The difference here is that I don't think we're going to have flashbacks in this half season. They have to cover their time in Camelot and their time in Storybrooke so I think it may be more similar to 3B with the flashes to what everyone was doing after Pan's curse took them back. Well we know we get young Arthur/Gwen flashbacks so that doesn't involve the main cast unless Rump is somehow involved there too. We get Merlin and Nimue flashbacks, which I actually want, and that predates Rump. Link to comment
retrograde September 28, 2015 Share September 28, 2015 Yeah Eddy said in the Variety post mortem that there will be "origin stories" for Arthur, Guinivere, Lancelot, Merlin, and Merida. Link to comment
OnceUponAJen September 28, 2015 Share September 28, 2015 The one problem I have with Emma faking it is that she turned Sneezy into a statue. Would she have done that if she wasn't dark? 2 Link to comment
mjgchick September 28, 2015 Share September 28, 2015 I think because she didn't crush him might make you think she is faking it. Wouldn't a villain crush it after? But I don't think she's faking it. I do still think she's trying to protect those she loves to an extreme level. Link to comment
YaddaYadda September 28, 2015 Share September 28, 2015 It would be kind of tricky if people go into the episode thinking it has something to do with Merida's dad, and then have it be about Arthur. When I was unspoiled, I had no clue what the episode titles were. I barely kept track of the episode number. The vast majority of viewers are unspoiled, so a title wouldn't matter to them. For me who is spoiled, if this is about Arthur, I would be pleasantly surprised. If it's about some character that was mentioned like 3 times, I'd just you know...can't bring myself to care about that side of Merida's story. I still don't get why she thrust in this arc. Link to comment
KingOfHearts September 28, 2015 Share September 28, 2015 (edited) For me who is spoiled, if this is about Arthur, I would be pleasantly surprised. If it's about some character that was mentioned like 3 times, I'd just you know...can't bring myself to care about that side of Merida's story. I still don't get why she thrust in this arc. It would be pretty convenient if Merida was directly connected to Camelot even though she's from another kingdom. Then she would happen to be in the Enchanted Forest looking for a wisp just like Emma at the same time. She just doesn't fit into the rest of the story at all without the writing coming up with some random reason or connection. Edited September 28, 2015 by KingOfHearts Link to comment
mjgchick September 28, 2015 Share September 28, 2015 Doesn't she connect with Rumple? Is this when she and Belle go on an adventure? Link to comment
kili September 28, 2015 Share September 28, 2015 (edited) I think because she didn't crush him might make you think she is faking it. Wouldn't a villain crush it after? Regina did not crush the dwarf she turned into stone. She just left him there. We saw the statue again whlle they were running around Storybrooke chasing Elsa. Regina also turned a flying monkey into a stuffed animal and just gave it to Roland. That poor person could still be a stuffed animal, but maybe it is now in human form (Zelena's spells were undone, not Regina's). Gepetto's parents are still puppets and Rumple used them to decorate his dining room for many years. So, I would buy a Dark One keeping a random Sneezy statue around. Kind of like Jabba with his Han Solo in carbonite wall hanging. Sometimes, it's fun to gloat and remind people what you can do to them. Emma harrassing Regina about being the savior in that sneak peak means that Regina will be the savior. We are clearly meant to feel sorry for Regina there and that means she will get her commeuppance. I just hope its a misdirect for all the times poor Emma got told to sacrifice because she was the savior and it turns out the Emma is immaterial to the actual saving and that somebody other than Regina gets to save the day this time. So Emma fake being the Dark One, I can get behind. If Emma is faking being the Dark One, then it's a trap for Merlin. I hope she jabs him with a sword and dares him to pull it out. Edited September 28, 2015 by kili 1 Link to comment
KingOfHearts September 28, 2015 Share September 28, 2015 (edited) It's been confirmed a stoned person can be brought back to life. In Wonderland, Will was turned to stone but then was brought back to life by Anastasia. (Who, might I add, was in a similar position to Dark Swan.) Edited September 28, 2015 by KingOfHearts 3 Link to comment
Souris September 28, 2015 Share September 28, 2015 So I understand they are filming two episodes at the same time starting today. I'm guessing not much Hook in them given that Colin flew out of Vancouver yesterday according to social media. Counting down to the latest rumors of the character's demise. Where did you see that he flew OUT of Vancouver? All I got from his video was that he was getting on a plane. He could have been getting on a plane to fly BACK to Vancouver from a weekend trip somewhere. He wasn't at the Vancouver Whitecaps game on Saturday night, which he always goes to if he's not filming. Link to comment
Shanna Marie September 28, 2015 Share September 28, 2015 It sounded to me like Emma's demeanor changed a lot when she was talking to Henry and then later when Regina showed up, so if she's faking, it's harder for her to fake with Henry because she doesn't want to hurt him, even for his own good, and so she just had to make it clear that it's not his fault, when I'm not sure a real, full-on Dark One would be that bothered. All the Savior nonsense is annoying because wasn't that because Emma's DNA was woven into the first curse? It's not a generic title. If she very specifically didn't put a Savior into her curse, there's no Savior. Period. It might still be broken, and the person who manages to find a way to do so would be a hero, but they wouldn't be the Savior. "Savior" on this show is starting to sound like "Champion" got to be on Angel. It's beyond "drinking game" and to the point of "twitch when you hear that word, for the rest of your life." 4 Link to comment
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