Speculation WITHOUT Spoilers: Lalalalala! I can't hear you!

[Mari]

I wouldn't call Gold's heart pure white. What it is is a blank slate. He has the choice to fill it with love or hate.

 

Yeah, that makes sense.  I didn't mean "Pure white" to be innocent.  I just meant it was empty--we had no indication that it was a normal, red heart and it wasn't a blackened, evil heart.    I figured the white heart could mean anything from "Blank slate no memories/personality Rumple" to "Robotic passionless Rumple" to "Rumple in a coma"

[Camera One]

Will Belle get to say, "You are NOT a monster" to Dark Emma in Season 5? 

[Mari]

Will Belle get to say, "You are NOT a monster" to Dark Emma in Season 5? 

Maybe she passed that torch off to Hook.

 

(Or, in a non-love-interest way, to Snow, David, Henry, or Regina.)

 

But, since Hook seems to mostly exist right now to say supportive things to Emma, I"m guessing Hook.

[Camera One]

Maybe we will get the major Rumbelle milestones played out by Emma/Hook, starting with Hook giving Emma a chipped cup.  

[Rumsy4]

Please God, no! :-p

Belle will say "You're not a monster" alright, but once again to Rumple, not Emma. She'll think it's her job to rehabilitate the former Dark One.

Edited September 6, 2015 by Rumsy4

[Camera One]

I can see the Writers going all out with call-backs to earlier seasons:

 

1) Dark Emma can hire Hook as her servant. 

2) Hook will open the curtains letting in sunlight and Dark Emma will wince.

3) He will lose his balance and fall into Dark Emma's arms.

4) Hook drops a vase, and says "Sometimes, the best vase is chipped."

5) Hook angers Dark Emma, and she orders "Take him to my bedchamber."

6) Henry tries to save Dark Emma by getting a magic bean to "The Actual Land Without Magic, Really, I Swear Magic Doesn't Work Here And Can't Be Brought Here", but Dark Emma lets him fall through the portal.

7) Dark Emma decides she too will enact the Dark Curse, and she crushes her father's heart, killing both Snow and Charming since they share a heart.  More time for 5B's Kings of Darkness, Sauron, Voldemort and Darth Vader.  Maybe throw in Hades since we need a wisecracking one.

8) Dark Emma gives Hook a fake dagger and he carries it around in a giant purse.

9) Dark Emma makes a deal with Zelena, and sets her free, causing deep pain for Regina and Robin.

10) Dark Emma corrupts Lily, despite Maleficent's desperate attempt to have happiness with her daughter.

Edited September 6, 2015 by Camera One

[Dianthus]

All snark aside, I really do like the idea of a chastened, older-but-wiser Rumple. It's something we haven't seen from him yet, and it would give Bobby something fun to play (interspersed with imp!Rumple).

[Camera One]

I figured out why Zelena is pregnant.  If any actress on the show has a baby, Zelena will use a magic spell and transfer the pregnancy over.  Instant plot twist and no need for change in writing.  Due to the pacing of the show, the baby might not be due until Season 7.

[Souris]

ABC's list of key eps to watch before S5.

 

Not gonna lie, it’s kind of an odd list of essential eps. But I’m loving the CS focus. And Emma focus.

 

IIRC there was some talk about the Dark One in Manhattan, and Hook tried to kill Rumple. But mostly I remember it for what a jerkface Neal was to Emma.
Best Laid Plans was awful, but it dealt with Emma’s darkness being removed – which Emma alluded to in the finale and asked Snowing to do it again as heroes.

 

Do y'all think the list of eps ties into S5 themes?

[retrograde]

From Unpopular Opinions, via Fandom:

 

I honestly don't care one bit if they add a relationship for Mulan - this is NOT to say I don't want any minority representation on this show.  Mulan is a minor character, and one whose presence on the show doesn't make or break watching for me.  So, que sera sera *shrugs*  I will, however, be miffed if they decide to give her a relationship with Aurora, who already has a canon TL in Philip.  I always wonder what Sleeping Warrior shippers think of him - or if they even think of him?  I mean, he loves Aurora, and she him.  They have a kid.  There's been nothing to indicate a change on her part.  Does what he wants and desires in a relationship not matter if it comes down to checking a box in the diversity column?  Go ahead and give Mulan a great relationship with some fantastic gal.  Just don't do it by breaking up a canon TL couple, who as far as we know, love each other dearly and have a family together.

 

 

I don't think they will -- if the go there at all with Mulan -- it doesn't seem their style. My guess is any queer relationship on this show will involve at least one new character (it will also probably be brief and chaste, because Disney). 

Edited September 19, 2015 by retrograde

[Mari]

. My guess is any queer relationship on this show will involve at least one new character (it will also probably be brief and chaste, because Disney). 

I would be surprised if at least one character wouldn't be new, too.

 

As for the brief and chaste?  Brief is likely--I can't seem them adding two more regulars for very long.  Without making one of the current main characters part of the couple, whatever same-sex couple would likely be a short-term appearance, or short appearances here and there.

 

The chaste?  Not necessarily in a way that stands out from some of the other couples on the show.  I can't remember the last time we saw Snow and David kiss, and anything remotely sexual (apart from the baby that might've happened simply by admitting they wanted it to happen) seems to have been left by the wayside back in season 2.  

 

Even Hook and Emma have only been seen kissing, and not excessively.  The same with Rumple and Belle.  The most risque the show has gotten is with Robin/Regina/Zelarian.

[retrograde]

Yeah, but I think chaste even by this show's standards. I'd be shocked to see a kiss between two characters of the same sex -- delighted, but shocked.

[Rumsy4]

Some fans like the idea of Mulan/Aurora/Philip being in a polyamorous relationship. Other fanon headcanons are Philip dying, and Mulan and Aurora finding comfort in each other. I definitely don't think A&E will kill off Philip. Can you imagine the uproar? lol

 

Personally, it would be nice to have a genderbent Shang on the show. That way the "classic" Disney pair will be maintained, but with a special OUAT-twist (like Jack the giant killer). 

Edited September 19, 2015 by Rumsy4

[Mari]

Personally, it would be nice to have a genderbent Shang on the show. That way the "classic" Disney pair will be maintained, but with a special OUAT-twist (like Jack the giant killer). 

Honestly, that's the way I'd like them to go, too, and it would make a lot of sense.

[KingOfHearts]

 

The most risque the show has gotten is with Robin/Regina/Zelarian.

I would probably argue Regina/Graham was more risque than the Triangle of Doom 2.0. There were multiple bed scenes, some really hardcore lustful make-out sessions, and some very onscreen rape. Most of the more recent stuff was either cleaner or off-screen.

 

(Yes there was the crypt sex, but I didn't find that as lusty in tone.)

 

 

I don't think they will -- if the go there at all with Mulan -- it doesn't seem their style. My guess is any queer relationship on this show will involve at least one new character (it will also probably be brief and chaste, because Disney).

I don't trust the writers with something like this, judging by most of their relationships they've done.

Edited September 19, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[pezgirl7]

If they had genderbent Prince Eric, I would have been a bit bummed. The Little Mermaid was my favorite movie growing up. I had a crush on Eric and Ariel/Eric was probably my first OTP. So whatever the writers do, they're not going to please everyone, obviously. I can see them showing Mulan with a new female character, so the audience can see that she has moved on from her heartbreak with Aurora. I can't see them breaking up Aurora and Phillip, especially now since they have a baby.

[Rumsy4]

Some people were complaining when they cast a PoC to play Rapunzel. But it turned out to be quite a minor/unremarkable role. Mulan's LGBT romance may well turn out to be 5 minute scene of Mulan walking into the sunset with her new lady love.

 

It will be interesting to see if the writers will pretend Mulan came to Storybrooke with Dark Curse 2.0. Mulan most likely reconnected with Emma, Snow,, Aurora, and Phillip off-screen. In fact, she was with the Merry Men all along. Just because they didn't show on-screen it doesn't mean it didn't happen. ;-)

[Curio]

Knowing this show and how everything happens off screen, I wouldn't be surprised if Mulan showed up for 5 minutes, said hi to Robin and the Merry Men, and then randomly introduced the group to her new lady love interest the audience has never heard of before. She gives a quick 30 second update on how they met, and then they leave the scene, never to be seen on screen again.

 

So, basically the Will/Belle treatment. 

[YaddaYadda]

I always thought Philip had died after Zelena monkeyfied him. I know that a lot of parents, especially men, name their kids after themselves, but I thought that Aurora naming her son Philip meant that the father had bit the dust.

 

They're bringing Ruby back. Maybe it will be a Ruby/Mulan thing. 

 

i'm not even sure Mulan is in Storybrooke. Maybe she was outside the curse region when everyone and others were brought to SB.

[Writing Wrongs]

Merida and Mulan.

[Camera One]

i'm not even sure Mulan is in Storybrooke. Maybe she was outside the curse region when everyone and others were brought to SB.

 

That will give them more of a story to tell.  Since everyone and their grandma was able to escape Snow's Dark Curse.

[Serena]

Personally, it would be nice to have a genderbent Shang on the show. That way the "classic" Disney pair will be maintained, but with a special OUAT-twist (like Jack the giant killer). 

That would be my preference as well.

[retrograde]

(I don't think anyone has posted this) TV Line's Fall TV Predictions:

 

Michael-Raymond James will put in a cameo as Neal, in some way or form, as Emma battles the Darkness inside of her.

 

Yeah I don't see this happening. 

[Rumsy4]

Hahhahha... nope.

[PixiePaws1]

Well...he wouldn't actually have to film any new scenes. There is already a truckload of FuckwitFire emotionally eviscerating Emma scenes available. .

So, so many!

Hmmm... maybe if Ems goes full on Dark One it wouldn't be such a surprise.

Edited September 24, 2015 by PixiePaws1

[KingOfHearts]

Sounds like they're just stirring up those fans who always ask if Neal or Graham are coming back, only to be returned with a resounding "NO!" from A&E. Dead is dead... except when it's not.

 

*cough* Zelena *cough*

Edited September 24, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

By Neal coming back, they mean Dark Emma will be looking at a dreamcatcher for 1 millisecond.  Shoutouts to all Neal fans... Love, A&E.

[PixiePaws1]

Now that Emma is the Dark One and given how these writers recycle....um... I mean, use their inventive parallels. .. (!) Do you think we will get some sort of Dark Swan version of Rumple letting Bae go through the portal??

[Joanh23]

Rumple letting Bae go through the portal showed that even though he had all this new power, he was still a coward at heart - Jmo has said that Emma will now be selfish in her decisions, so potentially I could see Emma trying to take Henry away from Regina - to have him to herself, but I don't think they'll go that far.

[KingOfHearts]

Dark Swan will probably have an overall goal to explain her action like Rumple did, but I don't think she'll be ditching Henry to a portal.

Edited September 27, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Mari]

So, anyone have any ideas about what they did to Emma that made her become the Dark One?

 

Is it an actual, serious thing, or did someone scratch the VW and not tell her in time?

[Rumsy4]

So, anyone have any ideas about what they did to Emma that made her become the Dark One?

 

Is it an actual, serious thing, or did someone scratch the VW and not tell her in time?

 

They stole all her grilled cheese sandwiches. And gave her fries instead of onion rings. :-p

 

I'm thinking maybe the Nevengers try to control her in some way? Maybe Emma is tempted to do something really Dark, and Snow asks Regina to "destroy" Emma (whatever that means) before she turns evil. That would piss anyone off.

[Guest]

So, anyone have any ideas about what they did to Emma that made her become the Dark One?

 

Is it an actual, serious thing, or did someone scratch the VW and not tell her in time?

 

I suspect that they did something to try to join the dagger and Excalibur that was Arthur's idea and the rest went along with to rid Emma of the curse and it worked the opposite of what they expected.

[YaddaYadda]

I thought it might have been something to do with reuniting the blades (Excalibur and the dagger) but I doubt it, just because one is clearly light and the other one is dark, so put together, they should have balance (or logically at least and I know this show is illogical as hell).

 

I'm just gonna go ahead and blame Merlin for this? His ass went to a 6 year old giving her all kinds of warnings. The only one that made sense was about not doing something even if it feels like it's the right thing (like taking on the darkness, you know the huge dark blob)

 

I think whatever happened to her, Merlin is directly responsible. And if everyone is trusting the guy, then they are failing to protect her.

 

I will cyber smack anyone who says it's Arthur. 

[retrograde]

My guess is that the Nevengers do do something to Emma, but they are tricked/manipulated into it by whomever is the real Big Bad this season.

[scarynikki12]

I like retrograde's idea that they do something to her.  Maybe it's the 5A Big Bad tricking them into it or maybe they do figure out how to remove the Darkness, get her to stop being the Dark One, and without killing her and SparkleDark steps in and manipulates Emma's perception so that she thinks that they've not only given up and are planning to kill/destroy her but that they're actively happy about it.  If she thinks that they don't want save her/don't care about her anymore then I can see her giving up and embracing the Darkness as a way to deal with the pain.  Her visual Dark One is the manifestation of her emotional walls without actually looking like walls so it's possible.

[Souris]

I've seen a theory that at some point, Hook will try to take Emma's heart, perhaps to keep it from darkening. The spell is still on the hook, so it seems like a Chekov's gun. That would be a big betrayal, would help push Emma to go dark, and I would hate it.

[Camera One]

It's clearly Snow and Charming's fault.  When is it not?

[Serena]

I've seen a theory that at some point, Hook will try to take Emma's heart, perhaps to keep it from darkening. The spell is still on the hook, so it seems like a Chekov's gun. That would be a big betrayal, would help push Emma to go dark, and I would hate it.

Isn't this season mirroring 3B? Which was also the last time we called Chekov's Gun (the sleeping spell Regina made, that Zelena took) and Dumb and Dumber when questioned about it were like "You think that's going to come into play? What made you think of that? Continuity? What a crazy thought."

[Mari]

I've seen a theory that at some point, Hook will try to take Emma's heart, perhaps to keep it from darkening. The spell is still on the hook, so it seems like a Chekov's gun. That would be a big betrayal, would help push Emma to go dark, and I would hate it.

 

 

Isn't this season mirroring 3B? Which was also the last time we called Chekov's Gun (the sleeping spell Regina made, that Zelena took) and Dumb and Dumber when questioned about it were like "You think that's going to come into play? What made you think of that? Continuity? What a crazy thought."

Yup.

 

Chekov has so many unused guns floating around Storybrooke and the Enchanted Forest, that he could open a nicely sized weapon shop.

[Curio]

Isn't this season mirroring 3B? Which was also the last time we called Chekov's Gun (the sleeping spell Regina made, that Zelena took) and Dumb and Dumber when questioned about it were like "You think that's going to come into play? What made you think of that? Continuity? What a crazy thought."

 

Don't forget "Oh, you think we're going to bring back Hook's Chekhov voicemail to Emma that could have easily been used as the reason Belle finds out Rumple has been lying to her? That's crazy, Rumple deleted it."

 

I wouldn't be surprised if they never reference Hook's hook ever again. (Unless it's the butt of a joke.) Or they'll play it off and say "Hook's hook no longer has the potion on it when he attacked Zelena because her deflection spell nullified the magic...or whatever."

Edited September 28, 2015 by Curio

[YaddaYadda]

Speaking of...how did the protection spell work when Zelena's powers were "inactive" because of the cuff? A spell is still magic.

 

Also, Hook slow to get up? Showing your old age, I see!

[Souris]

With our luck, this would be the time that Chekov's gun actually goes off!

 

It's pretty clear from the promo that they are indeed turning Regina into the new Savior, just like Lana said. My new theory is that DarkSwan is prodding her to be the Savior on purpose as part of her seekrit plan to destroy the Darkness. She needs Regina to be the lightest of the light because Emma is now the darkest of the dark. (This would be a callback to Merlin's lightness wand that can only be wielded by darkness.) Ultimately, Emma and Regina will hold the dagger and Excalibur and rejoin them, and their combined Dark/Light magic will clash and destroy the darkness for good. If we're lucky, other characters will be allowed to add their love to Regina's Savior magic. Or perhaps Hook & Henry will hug DarkSwan, weakening her darkness. But if the show is true to form, it will only be Regina's new Savior magic that destroys the darkness.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Speaking of...how did the protection spell work when Zelena's powers were "inactive" because of the cuff? A spell is still magic.

Because she already cast it. The cuff prevents her from casting new spells.

 

 

Isn't this season mirroring 3B? Which was also the last time we called Chekov's Gun (the sleeping spell Regina made, that Zelena took) and Dumb and Dumber when questioned about it were like "You think that's going to come into play? What made you think of that? Continuity? What a crazy thought."

But they'll remember Zelena throwing Regina through the clocktower for "continuity". Their memories are selective.

Edited September 28, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Rumsy4]

Going back to why Emma turned into the Dark Swan, the last scene made it look like Emma was angry with the Nevengers. I think she holds them partly (or fully) responsible for her Darkness. Emma might have felt that she had to do something Dark in order to save Henry/Hook/everyone from some dangerous situation. It could be that the Nevengers kept some vital information from Emma to "protect" her, which if Emma had known, she would not have been driven desperate. It would be just like Snowing to withhold information from Emma.

 

Emma interacts specifically with Snow, Regina, and Hook in the last scene. She taunts Snow with her failure. She also tells Regina that she is going to hold on to the Dagger herself. So, I think either Regina and/or Snow tried to control Emma's actions, which felt like a betrayal to her. When Hook asks her why she is acting this way, she replies that it is because she is the Dark One. If she felt the love from Hook/her parents seemed conditional to her being "good" that would be another betrayal for Emma. So many possibilities... 

[YaddaYadda]

I think Emma went dark because someone locked Hook and Henry somewhere she could not find them. I don't think they have meat lockers in Camelot though, so I have to think about where they were locked up. She flipped her lid.

 

So it's only a joke, but with this show...

 

So, I think either Regina and/or Snow tried to control Emma's actions, which felt like a betrayal to her.

 

I would not be shocked if those two had something to do with her turn. 

[Shanna Marie]

I'm wondering if they left their modern clothes at Granny's while they were in Camelot. With just about everyone else, they seem to have a closet full of clothes, so it would be easy for them to go back to Storybrooke dress after their return. But Hook seems to have just one outfit, with changes of shirts. So I can't help but wonder how (or if) he'll go back to modern Storybrooke attire if he got transported back while wearing Camelot clothes. Does he have a closet full of leather jackets and vests?

[Mari]

 But Hook seems to have just one outfit, with changes of shirts. So I can't help but wonder how (or if) he'll go back to modern Storybrooke attire if he got transported back while wearing Camelot clothes. Does he have a closet full of leather jackets and vests?

Well, since all of Granny's was transported, maybe his clothes were upstairs in the room he presumably used to rent from Granny before the Jolly Roger ended up back in Storybrooke?

 

Or they might use it as an excuse to get him different clothes.

[Shanna Marie]

Well, since all of Granny's was transported, maybe his clothes were upstairs in the room he presumably used to rent from Granny before the Jolly Roger ended up back in Storybrooke?

Oh, good point. He could have changed into his Camelot clothes at Granny's and just hung up the leather jacket and vest there. Not that I expect them to address it at all.

[bmoore4026]

My speculation is that, since we didn't see Robin or Granny or a couple of the Dwarves, they're either dead or stuck in Camelot.  Or statues.