Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[Serena]

But see, she did not commit that crime with her soul. So it's totally okay!

[ParadoxLost]

So, just to be clear...Regina can do white magic without a heart and with some dude in solitary for a crime he did not commit?  Okay, then.  I suppose that she still has a vault full of hearts too

 

Has Regina done white magic with her heart?  Given the dark spot on Snow's maybe its the heart removal that facilitated her ability to use white magic?

[Shanna Marie]

Has Regina done white magic with her heart?  Given the dark spot on Snow's maybe its the heart removal that facilitated her ability to use white magic?

That's been my personal theory, that removing her heart was like removing a cancerous tumor, and she was a much better person without it. Maybe her soul kicked in to do the emotional work of the heart. I guess we'll find out in the new season, now that she has her heart back.

[PixiePaws1]

Ok...finally set up an account!

My theory on Emma's 'internal issue'...or as I am referring to it in my head...delaying tactic #644....ok so I am a wee bit skeptical.

If Emma's magic manifests under extreme emotional turmoil AND it affects electricity then I can see it getting out of control when the Emma and Hook interactions are getting. ..um...intense (because now she's embraced her magic again that genie is soooo out of the bottle) then the electricity in whatever applicance is nearby goes crazy. Hook's hook is metal...see where I'm going with this? So...electricity, metal and flesh. Well that's not going to work out for Hook......

Can see Emma running for the hills while they load Killian into the ambulance!

[YaddaYadda]

Aww, Crisp!Hook...I wonder if her issues don't have to do with the last guy whom she liked.  He got his heart crushed, which incidentally happens to have happened to the last woman Hook loved.  Emma was sort of indirectly responsible for Graham (don't everyone jump all over me for this, I'm absolutely not blaming her), she might feel responsible for it.  That's sort of a direct result of what her magic and her Savior status did.

[sharky]

Actually, the last guy she liked turned out to be a flying monkey. But again, it was a relationship subverted with magic, even if it wasn't her own.

Edited August 3, 2014 by sharky

[YaddaYadda]

Right...Walsh!  I can't even say I blocked him off, I just totally forgot he existed.  That's pretty bad, isn't it? 

[Joenigma]

I am leaning to the set back issues is relating to her magic and her doing something to Hook.  It was why I think maybe Emma gives Hook his hand back, even momentarily. Maybe in a intense make out session, his hook magically because another hand. It freeks Emma out, and she backs away and sees the hand revert back to his Hook. Hook won't see anything wrong with what Emma did, but it would be enough to scare Emma thinking she *could* hurt Hook. And would want to control her magic before taking their relationship any further. I just don't think they'll have Emma zap Hook.

[ShadowFacts]

 

Right...Walsh!  I can't even say I blocked him off, I just totally forgot he existed.  That's pretty bad, isn't it?

 

No, it's not bad, he was just not very memorable.

[Rumsy4]

I too think they're going the route of Emma's magic accidentally hurting the people she loves. But I'll call BS if the only person she pushes away is Hook. She needs to push away Henry and Snowing as well, but no one wants that again. So, it will be more manufactured CS angst if they have Emma being cold (har har) to only Hook even after the 3B finale.

If there had been no Walsh, I might buy it a little more. But Emma has been in a sorta long-term relationship now, and is not the same Emma who merely had one-night stands. I really wish Walsh had come back briefly so Emma could have punched him. But Emma is not allowed to be mean to any of her "suitors" other than Hook. Neal made her cry, and Walsh broke her heart. But all her scathing remarks were made to Hook.

I don't want to be too harsh before the season airs, but the Show needs to do a better job of showing people's inner motivations. They can't just keep telegraphing stuff, and leave the viewrs to fill in the blanks. 8/10 are going to guess wrong. While I'm happy Emma gets to talk to Elsa as a friend, I'm not sure if the conversations are going to be more than five minutes long, given the Show's track record. And if 4A lasts for a mere two weeks in-Show, what is the point? And what happens in 4B? Emma becomes friendless again? Since they decided to bring Frozen into the Show, I wish they had also decided to keep the characters for the whole season.

Edited August 3, 2014 by Rumsy4

[YaddaYadda]

I think we can all agree that them not showing the missing year was a missed opportunity.  So Emma got over her Neal issues during her year in NYC while she was dating Walsh for eight months?  But then, really, did she get over it?  She was friendly with Neal and short with Hook at times.

 

The write Emma like she's completely bipolar.  If they write her as being worried that she might hurt Hook with her magic, then they should write her that way with Henry, her parents and he who shall not be named.  I think it's only fair.

 

I'm gonna go back to my earlier post when I said that Graham was the last guy she liked which (thank you Sharky) I was corrected on.  I'm gonna put Walsh and Neal in one category as the guys who weren't who said they were (which was voiced by Emma when it came to Walsh) and then Graham and Hook who never pretended to be other than what they said they were.

[daxx]

I think she was civil to Neal because she no longer had romantic feelings for him and had been able to separate in her mind the difference between "I will always love you because you were my first love" and "I am in love with you".

She didn't particularly miss him when he was gone.

Hook on the other hand brought out uncomfortable lusty romantic feelings that set off her fight or flight instincts. So she either ran from him or attacked him.

[Serena]

I think they can say she only pushes away Hook because her magic is only screwy around Hook, because she hasn't completely 100% understood and come to terms with the intensity of her feelings for him. While she's confortable with her love for her family, she still isn't about romantic love. Her power may "sense" her inner turmoil and act out.

I think it's bullshit, because if there's one person she should be feeling conflicted about it's Snowflake, but they have determinedly refused to play Emma's feelings realistically re: her little brother, so... 

[Rumsy4]

I think she was civil to Neal because she no longer had romantic feelings for him and had been able to separate in her mind the difference between "I will always love you because you were my first love" and "I am in love with you".

She didn't particularly miss him when he was gone.

Hook on the other hand brought out uncomfortable lusty romantic feelings that set off her fight or flight instincts. So she either ran from him or attacked him.

 

I understand that, but it got awful to watch in some of the latter episodes of 3B. If we are going to have a retread of that in 4A, I will start wondering if Hook has some masochistic tendencies. I know this is TV land, and angst is part and parcel of writing for a relationship, but I'm not looking forward to more forced CS angst. Especially if they introduce some magic-related trauma from childhood. This is exactly why it's a huge problem that the writers never bothered to explore Emma's childhood or her post-prison life. She is supposed to be one of the main characters of the Show, if not the central one. Now it feels like shoehorning a backstory to fit in with Frozen. 

[Serena]

Apparently this is the exact line Marian says in the confrontation from 401.

 

 

 

Marian: "You and the evil queen? What is wrong with you? She destroyed lives, she’ll destroy yours too! she’s a monster!"

*Regina walks off*

Emma: "Regina!"

And that’s pretty much it. I think that there is a bit going on in front of granny’s diner after it, as in, hook grabbing emma’s arm and talks to her, robin talking to marian and regina walking off on her own.

 

Marian has only been on the show for 5 minutes and she's already the smartest character.

[Rumsy4]

OMG, finally someone with basic common sense! I already love her! Please please let her never drink the Woegina Kool Aid!

[legaleagle53]

Of course, now that she is established as the smartest person in Storybrooke, she's toast.  She'll be gone by the end of 4A for sure.

[YaddaYadda]

Of course, now that she is established as the smartest person in Storybrooke, she's toast.  She'll be gone by the end of 4A for sure.

Or 2 minutes after she says that.  She'll probably combust and turn into ash.

[WildeNight]

All the spoilery goodness is making me a happy Oncer.

 

 

The NYC dragon that got zapped by Tamara for example had magic.

He was a Shanghai dragon.  August met Tamara overseas, not in America.

 

I am pretty sure they'll do something with "Fated to Die" and Marian.  I am very much looking forward to how they integrate Will Scarlet into the already zany and full cast of Storybrooke.

[retrograde]

I think it's bullshit, because if there's one person she should be feeling conflicted about it's Snowflake, but they have determinedly refused to play Emma's feelings realistically re: her little brother, so... 

In fairness, he has only been alive like a day. Emma has her issues, but she's a grown woman -- I think she can be happy for her parents without feeling "conflicted." JMo has said there will be some bittersweet moments with Nealflake realizing what she missed out on with Henry, which I think is fair, but I think she's old enough not to harbor any resentment towards an infant over what happened in her own childhood.

 

ETA: Unless you were talking about his name, in which case yes, she should be totally weirded out.

 

So Emma got over her Neal issues during her year in NYC while she was dating Walsh for eight months?  But then, really, did she get over it?  She was friendly with Neal and short with Hook at times.

I can believe that her attitude towards Neal changed in her memory-washed state because in that timeline, she had Henry. She was happier, had more purpose in her life, and something good had come out of their relationship. Henry did indicate she did still have some Neal issues (when he was trying to talk her into saying yes to Walsh) but I can see how it might have made her a different person. Should that resentment have come back when she got her memories back? Yeah, maybe. Really a whole lot of stuff that should have hit her like a sledgehammer (realizing she had actually given up her son and that almost all her memories with him were fake, for instance) was overlooked there. But I tend to agree with @daxx -- when they were walking through the forest and talking right before Neal died, I didn't get any romantic vibes off her. Both the tone and content of the conversation seemed to be more "We had something good together once and now we can be friends."

 

I think they did overdo it with her snarking at Hook, but he was also pushing her to confront and do things she didn't want to deal with (and also getting kind of lecture-y with her, if you ask me), so she had more cause to push back at him. She also seemed to blame him partially for bringing her back (and didn't seem to know Neal's role in it). Plus, yes, she had feelings for him (which they could've been a bit clearer on as a counterpoint to the barbs).

 

I will reserve my judgement on their/her issues for next season until I actually see them. I understand why the show doesn't want to immediately thrust them into a happy relationship, but it will walk a fine line between believable angst and emotion and unnecessary angst and delaying tactics. 

Edited August 3, 2014 by retrograde

[Jean]

While I'm happy Emma gets to talk to Elsa as a friend, I'm not sure if the conversations are going to be more than five minutes long, given the Show's track record. And if 4A lasts for a mere two weeks in-Show, what is the point? And what happens in 4B? Emma becomes friendless again? Since they decided to bring Frozen into the Show, I wish they had also decided to keep the characters for the whole season.

Well given that Elsa is a pretty big deal and the focus will be on her quite a bit I think their friendship will get some play and Emma will benefit by proxy. It might not be deep conversations and braiding hair over Ben and Jerry's but they can bond while dodging flying icicles. It's better than nothing. I have pretty low expectations. I just hope Emma becomes Elsa's permanent sidekick and that keeps her away from having to take over Snow's role to prop Woegina.

I don't know if they are "allowed" to keep the characters for longer than half a season. The longer they play with Frozen, the greater chance they have of polluting Disney's view and are the suits going to allow that? Keeping them long term means they need a long term story. That's hard to do without messing up the original version. And I can't see Elsa in a "Ruby" role. She would need to be prominent. However if they really do become popular I can see them doing a Frozen spin off.

Maybe they should have brought along Anastasia since they decided to make Will a regular. She could've been the permanent friend in the Blonde Power Duo.

As for Marian, I'm pretty sure she will now be revealed as the real monster of S4 and working with EM's character. Bank on it.

[legaleagle53]

As for Marian, I'm pretty sure she will now be revealed as the real monster of S4 and working with EM's character. Bank on it.

 

That would make absolutely no sense.  What possible connection could they have had either in the past or the present, especially since Marian is actually supposed to have been dead for 30 years (and would have been, but for Emma)?

[FurryFury]

That would make absolutely no sense.

 

Like that ever stopped these writers.

[retrograde]

Here is part of that styrofoam ice wall.

[Rumsy4]

They could write Marian as being tempted to join forces with EM's character to take down the Evil Queen. Then she'll come to her senses, announce that Regina has a pure white soul now, and die after giving her blessing to Robin and Regina.

Joking aside, I do think we are going to get some variation of Marian confessing that Regina is a changed and good person, before dying by the end of the season.

[ShadowFacts]

I saw a science fiction meme somewhere that said if no one comes from the future to stop you, how bad of a decision could it be?  Well in Regina's case with Marian, pretty bad since Emma stopped her.  But I think you're right Rumsy4, they will not hesitate to tarnish Marian in some way and probably one that will help Regina once again not pay a price. 

[YaddaYadda]

Wish they had never brought Marian in this three rings circus.  They could've just let Robin be bland worshipping at the altar of Regina.

[KingOfHearts]

I agree, YaddaYadda.

It's still possible the writers could write Marian as evil because we know so little about her. Of course I still think she's possibly a shapeshifter.

It's not in the writers' nature to make her and Robin a completely normal true love couple, especially with Regina involved. The whole Marian thing has been sketchy from the start.

Edited August 4, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[kili]

Wish they had never brought Marian in this three rings circus.  They could've just let Robin be bland worshipping at the altar of Regina.

 

Yep. This is not going to end well for Marian. Either she'll turn out to be evil or she'll end up dead shortly after giving her blessing to Robin to be with Regina. Her entire purpose is to validate OQ and to tell the audience once again that Regina is redeemed.

 

I guess they felt they had to bring her back to address concerns that Robin/Marian are canonical True Loves (plus it throws a lovely angst into the epic Regina/Robin love story). Marian is here to tell the viewers that they are wrong about that. Either she will persist in calling Regina "a monster" which will make her look like "a monster" since she is refusing to see how Regina has changed (She's St. Regina. Yo! Or you can just call her the "Biggest Bestest Hero EVER" despite suffering the Mostest of Anybody Ever) or she will turn out to be the bigger monster by being secretly evil (we'll probably get a flashback to Regina's early childhood where Marian was attending Regina's doll tea party and didn't think Regina's fake apple tarts tasted very good which is entirely why Regina has self-esteem difficulties to this day. Robin tells Marian when he finds out about this travesty "I used to think you were a good person!").

 

I'm going to enjoy Marian calling Regina "a monster" and questioning Robin's ethics for dating a woman who caused so much harm when it was the antithesis of what Robin/Marian stood for in the Enchanted Forrest (please let him try arguing with her that Regina is just "bold and audacious" and have Marian punch him in the face). I know it's not going to last, but I will enjoy it while it does.

Edited August 4, 2014 by kili

[sharky]

 

It's still possible the writers could write Marian as evil because we know so little about her. Of course I still think she's possibly a shapeshifter.

 

OK, my most recent crack!theory: Marian is the Ice Queen! Soooo.... Zelena knows how to shape shift, which she taught to her evil friend the Ice Queen, among other things. Soooo....the Ice Queen somehow knows that Rumple kills Zelena and decides get her revenge. Yadda yadda yadda and she becomes Marian and gets knocked out and has to therefore enact her revenge on Rumple in the real world for her friend's death.

 

I just can't see them bringing Marian for just a love triangle. I feel like that there has to be something else there. She's not who she says she is or she's marked for death regardless or something. Of course, with all those theories, I feel horrible for Roland because he's going to lose his mother.

 

Or I may be having an X-Files alien shapeshifter flashback. Although to be fair, I don't think Marian is an alien. Probably. ;)

[tennisgurl]

I hope there is some point to her besides a love triangle. Some tie in to the main story, some morality tale, something interesting. Hell, I will take shape shifting Skrull (what? Disney owns Marvel! It could happen!) over some boring love triangle.

 

But with the Frozen cast coming in, Emma's issues, the continued existence of every other main/supporting character, Rumple/Belle and their marriage, the addition of Will from Wonderland, and whatever else they decide to throw at us, do we really have time for this love triangle to be properly explored?

Edited August 4, 2014 by tennisgurl

[l star]

The actor who plays Robin Hood still isn't a regular, correct? Frozen is a big ass story that will take and get a lot of attention. Regina is a main character. I have trouble seeing them sidelining her completely from the major storyline of the season to deal with the Hood's love drama. I think there is a solid chance that triangle sticks around until 4B.

 

Marion isn't a Disney princess but she is the female lead in the Robin Hood stories. I don't think the show could turn her evil enough to make the Evil Queen look good just like they couldn't have Belle's 'Lacey' persona be who she really was.

 

I think that piece of dialogue from Marion is good but not just because it calls Regina out. I think it is about Regina's past following her and it should. That's another reason I hope they keep aging Henry. He needs to be old enough to understand that his mom is not the best person but she's not as awful as she used to be. Yet working to be better doesn't erase all that awful in her past. That takes nuance a ten year old couldn't possibly understand. That could be where they are going with Marion too. She doesn't understand because her only impression of Regina is the Evil Queen in all the leather and feathers who swoops in to kill people then disappears. Who could love that? I don't think that she will necessarily like Regina or understand Robin's love for her given time but I do think she will come to see her as a person like the other characters have.

[Souris]

I really hope Marian is exactly who she's supposed to be. Her being a shapeshifter or somebody else in disguise makes zero sense to me. Of course, not making any sense doesn't stop this show from doing a lot of things, but it would be too much of a crazy coincidence for whoever she'd really be to help Snow, get arrested by Regina and end up being brought to the future by Emma. If that person was powerful enough to take on Marian's shape, why wouldn't she escape on her own?

[KingOfHearts]

Initially, I thought Regina would recover from the Marian twist rather quickly, but after seeing the Sidney sneak peek, well... I have a hard time believing she was talking about anyone else but Marian.

If we see Regina trying to kill/remove Marian, fine. I'd rather have that than her getting Robin via justification. If Marian has an unfortunate "accident" and "redeemed" Regina says she had nothing to do with it, then that's more believable than Robin choosing a psycho maniac over his first love.

Shapeshifter theory goes like this: Zelena follows Emma through portal, flags down Regina and pretends to be working for Snow, and plays the Marian role from there.

Edited August 4, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Curio]

Shapeshifter theory goes like this: Zelena follows Emma through portal, flags down Regina and pretends to be working for Snow, and plays the Marian role from there.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the show went this route, honestly. I still feel like the gang defeated Zelena way too easily, so it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to believe that a villain as powerful and nuts as Zelena pulled off this long con. The writers made an effort to put in some dialogue between Robin and Regina multiple times where he says Marian's death is "his fault." So maybe a couple episodes into 4A,  Marian's alibi about being captured by Regina doesn't add up with Robin's story about her death, which blows Zelena's cover. Or maybe that's how Will ties into the storyline: he met the real Marian during the Back to the Future events and can vouch that she was never even in that kingdom because she was "hanging out" with Will... which then makes this awful love triangle a love quadrangle! (Please, God, no.)

Edited August 4, 2014 by Curio

[formerlyfreedom]

Hey, all, I'm starting to see a lot of strictly speculation - conversation about what Marian might do or what Regina might do belongs in that topic, and this topic should be Spoiler based. So, taking a line of dialogue that has been confirmed and jumping off from there belongs here; but if you're just talking about what they MIGHT do should go over there.

 

I'm not going to move any posts at this time, but going forward, I will move posts that are just speculation. Thanks!

[NotBothered]

Man.  You spend one week moving across the country, and the spoilers go crazy...

 

With so much happening in episode three, I am for once actually hoping that we get one of those "surprising connections" this show is so fond of with Elizabeth Mitchell's character.  Is there any chance that she might actually be someone from Emma's past?  I know it's a stretch right now, but I'm actually kind of hoping that she is the trigger for Emma's road block at the end of the episode.  The show hasn't spent much time on the idea that there are other magical characters outside of Storybrooke, and if we're burning through everything else so fast, that seems like the next best bet.  Although I also really do like the idea that she tempts Marian to the dark side for revenge on Regina. 

[Jean]

So we have EM, Hans and Will all introduced in Ep. 3 which is Charming centric right? Maybe the 3 guys were friends and were all in the Snow Queen's harem. Or they could do the original Snow Queen story alongside Frozen and have Charming and Will in the best friends roles in the flashbacks.

[stealinghome]

I'm guessing that 3x03 is going to be as much Will as Charming-centric. It would make sense, if they were boyhood friends.

[KingOfHearts]

If 3x03 is going to have Charming/Will fairybacks, where does Hans fit in? I would have a hard time believing Anna, Kristoff and Hans were all living peacefully in Storybrooke this whole time... since he tried to kill both Elsa and Anna. If he's not in Storybrooke, he's probably dead, but if he's alive, I'm shipping him with Regina. He'd probably marry her to get power, anyway.

Edited August 5, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Serena]

I'm trying to find out more about this (even though I'm going on vacation so I probably can't), but I've received an email and this dude is supposedly playing one of Hans' brothers (actually, the email I got only said "Brothers" without specifying Hans, but I'm assuming).

 

Also, I don't think we'll have Charming/Will flashbacks. Josh specifically said he'd have a friendship with one of the Frozen characters. He could have a friendship with both, but for now I'm thinking Charming/Hans maybe? Because Hans is fake!Charming.

Edited August 5, 2014 by Serena

[RadioGirl27]

So how long until the cast the old dude with bad hair from Frozen ? Because at this point he is the only one missing (apart from my sweet Olaf). I hate so much this Frozen storyline. It's getting ridiculous.

Edited August 5, 2014 by RadioGirl27

[Souris]

Question: Do you have any Once Upon a Time scoop that isn’t related to the Frozen storyline? —Katia

Ausiello: I think so…? For Season 4’s fourth episode, the ABC series is casting the role of an elderly, grizzled and unflappable knight who for many, many years has dedicated himself to serving a righteous cause. Anyone else getting a Holy Grail vibe from this…?

 

Source. Comments to article suggested Don Quixote.

 

Not sure how this character fits into the storylines we know about.

Edited August 5, 2014 by Souris

[sharky]

Hmm...could be crusades related, which could lead to a Sherwood Forest storyline that we've been speculating about. That could also work with the addition of Will Scarlet at that point as well. Essentially, I'm thinking about King Richard out on the crusades as a way for them to make the reference and get the Will Scarlet backstory in there as well. Not sure how all that relates to Frozen though.

[Serena]

Episode 4 is gonna be a Rumple episode though, I bet. We get Regina and Charming in 402 and 403... episode 4 has been traditionally Rumple's since season 1. I doubt they'd change that "tradition" to give an episode to Robin Hood, of all people. 

[Jean]

We could get the origin story of the Dark Curse.

Edited August 5, 2014 by Jean

[legaleagle53]

Source. Comments to article suggested Don Quixote.

 

Not sure how this character fits into the storylines we know about.

 

He'd be from the wrong century and culture anyway.  Don Quixote had nothing to do with the Holy Grail.

Episode 4 is gonna be a Rumple episode though, I bet. We get Regina and Charming in 402 and 403... episode 4 has been traditionally Rumple's since season 1. I doubt they'd change that "tradition" to give an episode to Robin Hood, of all people. 

 

Episode 01x04 was less about Rumpel than it was about Cinderella, though.  The true Rumpel-centrics started with "Desperate Souls" (Episode 01x06, I think).

[Serena]

Desperate Souls was 1x08, I believe. 1x06 was "The Sheperd", the Charming-was-a-switched-twin episode.

[Souris]

He'd be from the wrong century and culture anyway.  Don Quixote had nothing to do with the Holy Grail.

 

I believe the DQ suggestions were in lieu of the Holy Grail, not in conjunction with it.

[retrograde]

From TV Guide. Not really spoilery if you're already spoiled or in possession of common sense, but a few little things in there...

 

Do you know if Once Upon a Time's Frozen adaptation takes place before or after the movie? — Dave

A little bit of both, actually. "There may be some things with the parents we didn't know about pre-Arendelle," executive producer Edward Kitsis tells me. Well, that takes care of the flashbacks for the season! As for present-day Storybrooke, it's pretty obvious that, with Elsa in her Frozen duds, her escape from the urn comes after the movie.  "What happened to her to get her into that urn and what was going on in her life at that point is what's going to be revealed and what's going to be pushing the story forward," executive producer Adam Horowitz says. "Hopefully you'll find that there will be some cool surprising connections between Arendelle and our world."