Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[CatMack]

I feel like I can't really judge the Dark Swan look yet because the photos are so terrible.  I think the costume is fine, maybe I was hoping for something a little more intricate, but I can't really see the details very well so it might pop more in other photos/on screen.  It's the hair and makeup that I can't stand and it's entirely possible that that's due to the horrible lighting in those photographs.  

[Shanna Marie]

I have thoughts on the costume stuff, but since they aren't really about any spoilers, I think I'll take them to the production arts thread.

[sharky]

It's been a day. And I still can't get the image of Emma doing a lunge on top of Granny's bar out of my head. I really hate them for that.

Tyler Shields posted on IG that more pics would been shown at CC. I'm afraid folks.

So these were posted on Oh No They Didn't and someone mentioned Tyler being a "problematic" photographer I guess you could say. Controversial. I'm hoping the weirdness of the photos is more because of him than because of the costume and Dark Emma. Apparently, JMo likes him as a photog, but his aesthetic may be the problem with these photos more than anything else.

[orza]

The photos were released to a mainstream media site so that means abc approved them. A few people on the internet not liking the images doesn't make them or the photographer problematic.

[sharky]

Oh, I'm not saying these in particular are problematic, just what the photog has done in the past. Although considering the lighting and such, I do wonder how much it's an artistic decision with the photos and how much Emma will really look like these when she's on screen.

[Dianthus]

Having looked at the pix, I can't say I like the new look, but I think it works for her Dark Swan phase. It's so...severe. Hard and cold and distant. Given that Killian's brought out her softer side before, I have to trust that he can do it again. 

[YaddaYadda]

This almost like Emma's own AU in a way.  Everyone in the finale got to be someone else, but their personalities in the end, when Henry and Emma arrived at the end of the book came through.  Hook was written as a coward, but his sacrifice ended up being key to bringing everyone back to Storybrooke, Regina behaved on instinct, as a mother trying to protect her child, Rumple and Zelena behaved like their old selves as well.

 

So after looking at this, I started thinking that Emma being the Dark One is her own Alternate Universe.  I also get the sense that her telling her parents that she's counting on them and Hook that she loves him is because they'll be the ones feeling the brunt of everything Dark One.  It's designed to give them the drive to keep at it and trying to bring her back no matter how much she pushes them away or emotionally hurts them.  Her parents know she's counting on them and Hook knows she loves him for certain, so they won't give up on her.

[daxx]

So Ginnifer dyed her hair blonde, how will that be explained in show I wonder.

https://mobile.twitter.com/emilyrehm/status/617380173751562240/photo/1

[Camera One]

It's probably her new storyline.  Snow spills bleach and turns Storybrooke into a chemical wasteland.

[YaddaYadda]

Makes very little sense for her hair to be blonde right away though seeing as the show picks up exactly where they left off.

[Watt]

They'll just stick a terrible wig on her. Ugh.

[Shanna Marie]

Tossing out some possible casting based on their call description: I was watching Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell tonight, and Ariyon Bakare, who plays Stephen on that show, might be a good fit for what they want for Merlin. He's got a nice degree of gravitas about him in that role and has a very rich voice. I could picture him in wizard's robes, and his Jonathan Strange costume isn't too far from "modern" Enchanted Forest attire.

[Serena]

So Ginnifer dyed her hair blonde, how will that be explained in show I wonder.

https://mobile.twitter.com/emilyrehm/status/617380173751562240/photo/1

One of the usual set stalkers was teasing the other day "OMG the fandom will freak out when they see Ginny's new look!". It made me laugh that they were doing the usual "I know more than you and I'm not telling" about cast's hairstyles as well, not just storylines.

 

Yes, how the hell are they going to explain that in show? Snow dyes her hair because she wants to bond with Emma over hair dye??

[Faemonic]

About Ginny going blonde, the makeup team can just rub shoe polish in it or whatever gets the ginger out of Hook's beard, can't they? Unless they're subverting the Snow White thing, "hair as dark as night, lips as red as blood, skin as white as snow." She wasn't named Nightlocks, so that's not too strange a change.

[RadioGirl27]

So after looking at this, I started thinking that Emma being the Dark One is her own Alternate Universe. I also get the sense that her telling her parents that she's counting on them and Hook that she loves him is because they'll be the ones feeling the brunt of everything Dark One. It's designed to give them the drive to keep at it and trying to bring her back no matter how much she pushes them away or emotionally hurts them.

Of course Hook, Snow and Charming are going to be the ones that Emma hurts the most. I'm pretty sure she is going to lash out against her parents for abandoning her, and that the line "you are just a one-handed pirate with a drinking problem" is going to leave her lips at some point. The fact that Regina was the one than enacted the curse that made her grow up alone would be conveniently forgoten.

About Ginny's new look, I think it just proves the time jump during the premiere.

[YaddaYadda]

Of course Hook, Snow and Charming are going to be the ones that Emma hurts the most.

 

You hurt the people you love.  Also, I know you see Regina in your soup on a daily basis, but honestly, fuck Regina.  I'm thinking Regina will get her own, except that Emma won't be passive-aggressive like say David when he's dishing it out to his step-mother in law.

[KingOfHearts]

 

About Ginny's new look, I think it just proves the time jump during the premiere.

I hope they don't put it into the show. I know this is Once and there's twists, but her look is part of the iconography it was built on. She just wouldn't just not act like Snow White, but she wouldn't look like her either. Do they really need to take away even more from her original character on the show?

[Camera One]

Maybe Snow tries to take some of the darkness away from Dark Emma and ends up "electrocuting" herself which turns her hair white-blonde.  This would be a good opportunity to kill the character off for good, since she deserves to die after what she did to poor Maley and Lily.

Edited July 5, 2015 by Camera One

[retrograde]

I don't think the hair necessarily proves anything, given they haven't started filming yet. Actors change their hair over the breaks. Josh did last season, and they just used a wig. Even if there is a time jump, it would be pretty out of character for Mary Margaret to go bleach blonde. I suspect they'll just dye it back or use a wig.

[Souris]

Yeah, they'll probably just use a wig. It would really fry her hair to go from black to blonde and back to black so quickly. 

[YaddaYadda]

Snow got so frightened with what happened to Emma that her hair changed colors.  It happens in cartoons all the time!!!

[Camera One]

And she gets casted off as the Witch of Storybrooke.  Abhored by even David.  This will be a good parallel with Arthur/Lancelot/Genevieve.

Edited July 5, 2015 by Camera One

[sharky]

Well, if our theory is right, we have the dagger scene at the very beginning and then a time jump. I could easily see a magical plan to save Emma backfiring and her hair getting messed up. Or maybe they were trying to figure out how to take the darkness out of Emma and something went wrong. I could see something happening to Mary Margaret as a physical way to show how she's now committing to helping Emma after all their lying this past half season.

 

And we saw Colin had some floppy hair in Brazil. Perhaps hair changes aren't just a Ginny thing. Maybe it's a device the make-up department is using as some sort of sign that things are changing.

Edited July 5, 2015 by sharky

[YaddaYadda]

And we saw Colin had some floppy hair in Brazil.

 

Not because I wanna start a hair debate, but his is usual full of product that it barely moves.  I was surprised it did something in the finale.

 

So filming resumes on Wednesday.  I'm assuming we'll find out something about the castings for both Merlin and Gwen soon enough.

[Serena]

They're putting up a Dark Swan poster outside Comic Con. It looks striking.

[Camera One]

Well, I give them props for being able to create buzz out of anything. 

[Rumsy4]

Nice!

[YaddaYadda]

First Look: Emma Goes Dark

 

Nothing really spoilery, but the article names 3 people who will be key in trying to find Emma, Henry, Hook and Regina and Emma is apparently a villain (which I can't really wrap my head around).

[Rumsy4]

I can't either, yadda yadda. Are they saying Emma is already a villain because she took on the Darkness, or implying that she will become one?

Why is Regina taking part in the quest to find Merlin? Is this supposed to be in reciprocation of Emma's support of Operation Stupid? What about Emma's parents? I hope they're not going to be "out of sight, out of mind" again.

[RadioGirl27]

I can't either, yadda yadda. Are they saying Emma is already a villain because she took on the Darkness, or implying that she will become one?

Not only she is going to become a villain. She is going to be the worst ever. What I understand is that she is going to let the darkness control her.

The part about Hook, Henry and Regina is not a direct quote from A&E (they would never call Hook Emma's True Love), so it's probably more wishful thinking from the journalist. But, sadly, the Emma is a dangerous villain is a direct quote.

I hate this storyline so much.

(Arg, I hate writing in my phone, I have eaten half my prevoius post).

Edited July 6, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[YaddaYadda]

Well, one thing is, those are not direct quotes from A&E, so there's hope, I guess?  I can see her trying to help out and I would be more worried about her involvement in this if they hadn't made Sean and Rebecca regulars.  I'm pretty convinced that Regina will have her hands full with them but that she will try to provide some assistance in some capacity because they will never leave her out of a huge storyline like this.  I know I tend to take a more "optimistic" approach (I just rolled my eyes at myself!) but if Regina was going to be involved in this a 100%, there would have been no Zelena pregnancy, period.  The writers had 18 episodes to change their minds about that and they didn't, knowing very well where the story was headed for Emma.

[Rumsy4]

Good point yadda yadda, but typically the "B" arc is Regina-centric (even more than usual). I won't be surprised if the Zelena-baby drama is pushed to 5B. The "A" arc is usually Emma-centric. That is, apart from the multiple Evil Queen/Snowing flashbacks, and someone else saving the day at the last minute. However, it's too soon to predict where they're going with this arc. Hopefully we'll get some filming spoilers soon.

[RedKeep]

 

I won't be surprised if the Zelena-baby drama is pushed to 5B.

That's what I'm expecting. Even if there's a time jump at some point early in 5A, I don't see them rushing through Zelena's pregnancy. The pregnancy is actually the perfect excuse to keep that for 5B because there's likely not much to do with that terrible baby story until Zelena's approaching birth anyway. So they can mostly keep her locked up in the asylum and let Regina and Robin deal with other things during 5A and then focus on Zelena in 5B.

 

And I know many here are no fans of her to put it mildly, which I can respect even if I don't necessarily feel the same way, but keeping Regina on the very sidelines or even mostly out of the 5A story makes zero sense to me. And not only because, as long as we don't know what's going on with Rumple with his now no longer black heart, she's the only capable magic user left in that town who's not under the influence the darkness. Sure, they'll bring in Merlin at some point, but they probably won't find him and get him to help them within the first few episodes either.

[Curio]

keeping Regina on the very sidelines or even mostly out of the 5A story makes zero sense to me [...] [Regina's] the only capable magic user left in that town who's not under the influence the darkness.

 

It's kind of damned if you do, damned if you don't. Regina is technically the mayor of Storybrooke again (because of Offscreenville reasons...) so it's her responsibility to keep Storybrooke safe as the only "good" magic practictioner in town. If she leaves town on a quest to Camelot, that leaves everyone in Storybrooke vulnerable to another inevitable disaster (and let's be real—those happen quite frequently), including leaving everyone exposed to her batshit crazy sister. Sure, Zelena's locked up in a cell with an anti-magic bracelet for the moment, but how long did she stay locked in the jail cell before she escaped at the end of Season 3? Two hours? And you don't need magic to do bad things in Storybrooke, so she'd still be a threat to everyone. Zelena should be Regina's responsibility to deal with because they're sisters—not Granny's, Leroy's, Belle's, Rumple's, or the Charming's responsibility. On the other hand, it would be beneficial to bring someone along who can use magic on the quest to Camelot, and since Rumple is in a coma, that leaves Regina.

 

Personally, I just don't like the message it sends that the only reason they'd bring Regina along to Camelot is because she has magic. It basically reinforces the fact that you're only useful in the Once universe if you have magic. For once, it would be nice to see some non-magical people band together and defeat the most powerful magicians around through their own smarts and "the power of love."

Edited July 6, 2015 by Curio

[YaddaYadda]

For once, it would be nice to see some non-magical people band together and defeat the most powerful magicians around through their own smarts and "the power of love."

 

That's what was great about the season 3 finale and even season 4 finale is that people had to rely on their wits to do what they set out to do.  

 

And I know many here are no fans of her to put it mildly, which I can respect even if I don't necessarily feel the same way, but keeping Regina on the very sidelines or even mostly out of the 5A story makes zero sense to me.

 

And she won't be kept on the sidelines.  At the end of the day, some of us live on wishful thinking.  So the role she will have, I'm hoping it will be a small one and not something huge that will take away from Snowing, Hook and even Henry who should be involved in getting his mother back even though he's annoying.  My main issue is that when Regina is involved in something, it becomes all about her.  And i just don't want that.

 

That being said, if the show is really going the direction of Emma's abandonment issues and feeling like an orphan and the issues she raised during Lost Girl or the way she felt when she was goaded by Ingrid or even the whole thing with let's suck the darkness out of her so that she can become the heroest hero to ever hero, and that sends her toppling over the edge and into her own brand of darkness, then the writers need to put their money where their mouth is and deliver.  

 

At least with this show, when it comes to a villain, the show milks the sob stories to death and then beat it over the head with a baseball bat just to be certain.  If Emma is going to be a villain, then I want the writers to make it worth my while.

[maryle]

That's OK if people like Regina and hope she is involve in the Dark swan arc.

Most people do not really care one way or the other even the anti Regina. But the real problem is a large number of people fear that it turn up to be mostly about Regina again and again if her saving the day ...again before the heavy Regina B arc it just become a joke at this point and pretty redundant .

For me I'm not a anti but surely not a fans either more on The I do not care side and too much of her will be a turn of for me because even her fans should realise that other character should have their turn to shine for keeping the interest of the majority of people.

I mean Hook character can be hate by some and be a turn of to some but now Regina is also and it mostly how the writer handle her and just seems to make her Emma 2.0 for me as Emma fans its becoming a big big issue!

Honestly it should be about the Charming clan and Hook resolving their issues and...Regina helping along the ways if a zeste Rumbelle and OQ so every fans has something... And no! For the wicked baby be the biggest arc of season 5a personally I'rather the Camelot arc and Dark swan all season 5 and the soap thing as B plot.

[Souris]

The SQ fans are having a field day over the "forbidden fruit" line and think it means Emma is going to seduce Regina or something. My eyes roll, but I have to say, I found it pretty queerbaity, given that it was a prominent line in S1 with Regina saying, "How to get the Savior to taste my forbidden fruit?" Jeez, if even Eddy is queerbaiting now, it's going to be a long rest of the series.

 

And, yes, Eddy, a large portion of your audience IS worried about this storyline, with good reason. Seems clear that Emma will fail in keeping the darkness from taking hold of her and will become the worst villain in all the realms, far worse than Regina or Rumple -- so we can't blame them for any of their crimes.

 

Also, way to rip off the "Black Swan" poster, ABC graphics department.

Edited July 6, 2015 by Souris

[KingOfHearts]

The Black Swan poster looks ugly, in my opinion. It just looks tacky and underdone. It doesn't emulate Emma at all.

Edited July 6, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Serena]

The best poster this show ever had remains the S2 one with Emma holding a sword and giving her back to the camera.

[pezgirl7]

I liked the "moon" posters. 

 

I think the thing that bugs me the most about the Dark Swan poster is that, other than the nose, it doesn't really look like Jen's face. I like the simplicity of it though.

[Mari]

I know I'm often in the Doom Brigade, but when it comes to Emma-the-villain storyline, it's worth remembering that she's a White family member, and her evilness might need to be run through that writers' bias filter. Her evilness could easily end up being something like letting the air out of the tires on Doc's Miata, or pushing someone standing too close to her over, and they would think she was the vilest to ever villain.

The last time she was evil, evil, evil, she accidentally ended the life of someone threatening her son. Super, extra evil action that was.

[maryle]

When struggling for doing the good thing (really the basic of every story never written) is apparently too boring of storyline to the writer.

That they seems to choose to just turned the heroine into the most Evil that never walk on earth just... Because it fit the writer twist view that only vilain can be interesting... it is hard to not be worry!

[mjgchick]

What's so offensive about all this is that Emma is evil for doing something any hero would do. She sacrificed herself for the whole town and instead of getting paid for it she's going to get demolished as the town savior and after this whole story arc is done she'll be the first villain of this series to apologize for all terrible things they've done. Hell she felt guilty for saving a woman just because Regina's 2 hour boyfriend left her and of course she ended up being wrong because it's Zelena who couldn't control her Captain Swan shipping and decided to take Marian's life.

 

Do they seriously think this storyline will work without Emma's parents? Seriously? What was the point of her looking at them specifically at the end before she got sucked into god knows where. This is the perfect time to deal with Emma's relationship with her parents and yet they still manage to make it about Regina more? I hope this is just the writers speculations honestly.

[YaddaYadda]

What's so offensive about all this is that Emma is evil for doing something any hero would do. She sacrificed herself for the whole town and instead of getting paid for it she's going to get demolished as the town savior and after this whole story arc is done she'll be the first villain of this series to apologize for all terrible things they've done.

 

She sacrificed herself for the good of all and they did say that she's struggling and that the first thing she wants is for the darkness to be out of her.  So now, is she in Storybrooke and she voices that to someone or she's in Camelot and decides to go and search for Merlin since she's there anyway. She will be ahead of them in the search for Merlin if she lands in Camelot and it's not like he doesn't know everyone will be searching for him either since Merlin is such a know-it-all.

 

 

 

Do they seriously think this storyline will work without Emma's parents? Seriously?

 

The article basically said among others looking to save Emma are Henry, Hook and Regina and I'm guessing her parents are implied in this since they are the other people who would be looking to help her anyway they can.  And it's also not a quote from the writers, it's a speculation from the person who wrote the "article".  

 

they know people are worried about this whole Emma going evil and from the ending of last season, the expectations are really high that Snowing and Hook will be front and center for this one.  They can obviously do whatever they want, but it would be a huge miss if they decided to forgo Snowing in all of this.

Edited July 6, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[Souris]

they know people are worried about this whole Emma going evil and from the ending of last season, the expectations are really high that Snowing and Hook will be front and center for this one.  They can obviously do whatever they want, but it would be a huge miss if they decided to forgo Snowing in all of this.

 

They also had to know that people expected Emma to save Hook's heart -- or at least have SOMETHING to do with it! -- and they decided to forgo that.

[YaddaYadda]

They also had to know that people expected Emma to save Hook's heart -- or at least have SOMETHING to do with it! -- and they decided to forgo that.

 

I agree, but after having seen the finale, I get why they did what they did.  It was stupid, but they were going to kill him off in the AU and they decided to give her a reaction to that and that her efforts to get out of the AU weren't just about going back to their reality but also about getting him back.  That whole thing with the heart was very poorly designed.  They could have had Emma racing to find Hook but then have Belle beat her to it and save the day since this was about Rumple and his descent into madness anyway as opposed to being about Captain Swan which is what it seemed to be like, but really wasn't at the end of the day.

 

All I'm saying is that the actors haven't even set foot in the studio yet and that we should wait for spoilers and see what happens.

[KAOS Agent]

Everyone also needs to remember that A&E never say anything true about their upcoming stories. We've played the A&E interview game after watching the season play out and it's always wrong. It's why I don't read interviews with them pre-airing of an episode because you can't take them seriously. Add in a writer who wants to provide their own speculation and things aren't going to be that great. That said, I have very little expectation that this storyline is going to go well. The only thing I cling to is their comments last season that they don't want this to become Once Upon a(n) Ick. Emma going full on evil and doing really terrible things will turn off the audience like nothing else. This is especially true if those things are done in Storybrooke, not in some magical fantasy land. It has nothing to do with Regina or Rumpel or Hook or anything else. 

[mjgchick]

I'll wait and see. I think I'm more annoyed that the media is making it more about Regina or Hook saving her and completely ignoring her parents. I should just wait for Adam and Eddy's responses. I love Hook but I think her parents should be the ones to save her this time.

Edited July 7, 2015 by mjgchick

[Curio]

I'll wait and see. I think I'm more annoyed that the media is making it more about Regina or Hook saving her and completely ignoring her parents. I should just wait for Adam and Eddy's responses. I love Hook but I think her parents should be the ones to save her this time.

 

Am I the only one on #TeamEmma for saving Emma? It's great and all that people are worried about who will save her from the Dark One's powers, but I ultimately just want Emma to say screw it and save herself at the end of the day. "The only one who saves me is me."

[OnceUponAJen]

I think it would be good character growth for Emma to trust someone else to help her out of this situation. I think she is going to need the love of her family and friends to help her.