Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[Featherhat]

Meh on Hans, I thought the whole "I'm actually a giant asshole" twist was lame, not that it happened, but how it did, I wasn't surprised to hear it wasn't planned from the beginning. Then he was carted home by his brothers. IF they want to give him "layers of gray" about it, it probably fits better than making Regina or Rumpel (or Maleficent in the recent movie) actually a giant woobie. I could see him being a Hook in S2 character, at the very least he can canonically charm people.

 

Every new bit of information we get about 4A makes me more angry. We really don't need 6 (7 if the Knave is really coming) new characters in a show with 8 regulars and at least another 8 semiregulars. It' getting ridiculous.

 

No but its not unique to OUAT either. LOST did it a lot, Grey's still can't resist adding new characters every year although they have no story for many of the ones they already have, same with Revenge. It seems to be a hallmark of many hit ABC serial dramas. I suspect the Knave was decided before Frozen happened in such a huge way and will be Red/Belle-d.

[Rumsy4]

I don't know how reliable this information is, but there's some information from Emilie de Ravin's appearance at Xivent’s Fairy Tales Chapter II. Here are some quotes:

 

“I think something is going to go down. She’s going to have to find out about the dagger. Something tells me she’s not going to be terribly happy about that,” Ravin said, adding that despite a possible quarrel, Rumbelle will most likely have a happy ending. “Belle is very, very forgiving,” Ravin hinted.

 

So, their fight is going to last for two episodes.

 

 

While there is no video confirmation, some reports suggest that Ravin also dished on a possibility of a child. “It should be interesting to have a child with Rumple,” multiple fan sites report Ravin saying.

 

No. Just...no. Not another replacement baby, and it's definitely too soon for a Rumbelle baby! I don't think A&E will have two sets of couples dealing with a new baby this season.

Edited July 22, 2014 by Rumsy4

[Aliasscape]

They had a story in which a man murdered his wife for leaving him and then got a shiny new wife who's a famous Disney princess in a series supposedly written for their daughters, so I wouldn't put anything past them in that respect.

Hans just bugs me extra I think because there's this contingent of Frozen fans that already exist that are like "Hans really wasn't that bad" "Hans is better than Kristoff". It's like there are essays all about how Hans wasn't REALLY a villain because look how well he ran the kingdom while Anna was gone. And there's stuff like "Well except for the part where he left Anna to die, he was a good guy! And trying to kill Elsa doesn't make him a monster. What else could he do?" Like listen to yourselves, EXCEPT for the part where he left Anna to die? Yeah, that little old thing.

 

So I'll just be so annoyed if OUAT does stuff to add to that stupidity.

 

Edit: Yeah Hans wasn't originally a villain. Elsa wasn't originally just out of control of her powers, she was deliberately malicious. So stuff changes.

Edited July 22, 2014 by Aliasscape

[Mari]

So, their fight is going to last for two episodes.

There's a difference between being very forgiving, and simply not caring.

 

Belle doesn't care, as long as he doesn't do it to her, and she doesn't have to watch too much of it. 

 

Three episodes at the most.  It depends on how many Regina tears we're enduring at the time, and how far into our many, many Frozen flashbacks we are.

[ParadoxLost]

but its not unique to OUAT either. LOST did it a lot, Grey's still can't resist adding new characters every year although they have no story for many of the ones they already have, same with Revenge. It seems to be a hallmark of many hit ABC serial dramas.

 

The difference is that even though those shows became more ensemble, you knew who the leads were and they didn't get shoved to the background.  The supporting characters got crowded out by the newbies.

 

On OUAT, I think the leads tend to get pushed back too.  What I really don't like is the sheer number of new actors.  What is going on with Frozen is more like creating a second show in the show.  It feels a bit like they want to do a Once Upon a Time in Winter limited series but that failed with Wonderland and now they are shoving it into OUAT.

 

I would probably be less concerned if the leaks were tying these characters to the Charmings instead of Regina/Rumple.

 

I bet they freeze random characters in blocks of ice to take them off the canvas for 4A.

Edited July 22, 2014 by ParadoxLost

[Featherhat]

Edit: Yeah Hans wasn't originally a villain. Elsa wasn't originally just out of control of her powers, she was deliberately malicious. So stuff changes.

 

Yeah it does and I really don't mind him as a villain and think as presented he's at the very best a creepy skeeze, I just think the transition was very ropey and not "smooth sociopathic asshole" which is more what he's supposed to be. I think its one of the weakest things about the movie, I'd have been ok if they'd just packed his random self off home after Anna fell for Kristoff because "falling in love" over one dance was silly and that's all there is to it. That's probably a twist too far for movies like this in general though.

[YaddaYadda]

I'm feeling discouraged by this coming season.  I don't know if it's an overreaction, but sheesh.  So we have 6 new characters coming in (including Knave and I'm not including Marian in this and she'll have to be dealt with).

 

Maybe it's because I started being spoiled for OUaT mid-S3.

[Featherhat]

The difference is that even though those shows became more ensemble, you knew who the leads were and they didn't get shoved to the background.  The supporting characters got crowded out by the newbies.

 

 

 

Back when I was a Meredith/Derek (and Alex) fan I'd have vehermently disagreed with you. After they got back together they were relegated to mostly 1 minute plots whilst new relationships took up 20 mins, kind of like Snowing. I don't like it but it seems the way a lot of these shows work.

 

Given their track record with Neverland and Oz it was never not going to be All Frozen all the time, that pattern was clear even before Wonderland failed, although they might have dialled it back somewhat if they had another outlet, I still think A and B season arcs with different characters all over the place were something they decided would keep the show "fresh" . And Frozen in particular I think they have several reasons for tying it to the mothershow first before even attempting a separate launch.

[sharky]

Every new bit of information we get about 4A makes me more angry. We really don't need 6 (7 if the Knave is really coming) new characters in a show with 8 regulars and at least another 8 semiregulars. It' getting ridiculous.

Totally agree! I really hope someone asks them about this at Comic Con. Really really really hope! (Of cpourse that won't happen because hey! It's Frozen!!!!!!) I thought they said something last year about having the story in Neverland for so long made them miss Storybrooke. Did they not learn from that mistake that this show is at its best when it's the main characters are interacting with each other in Storybrooke? I really hope they don't have season 4B set in stone yet so when they realize they abandoned the heart of their show for this Frozen stunt, they can fix it in the back half.

[retrograde]

Eh, as long as Hans is just in flashbacks, it all seems like much of a muchness to me. They have to have some other characters in them, whether they're from the film or not. 

 

So according to the Twitters, they're filming at... Zelena's farmhouse today? But it's private land, so nobody can get close. Another spy offers this:

 

Apparently #OUAT has a need for a lot of clear wax (used for making puddles)

 

Possibly spoilery exchange with Adam on the Twitter:

Christina Romana ‏@XtinaRomana  8h
@AdamHorowitzLA Roland is 4 now- 2,5 years after the curse and - some time before it.So Roland’s age was about 1.He still remembers Marion?

Adam Horowitz ‏@AdamHorowitzLA  8h
@XtinaRomana no he doesn't remember her.  In s3 finale he was ASKING if that was his mother.  Not remembering.

 

CS/Colifer❤ ‏@darrensmilex  5h
@AdamHorowitzLA  I don't get why he'd assume it was his mum then but okay ahaha

Adam Horowitz ‏@AdamHorowitzLA
@darrensmilex because he heard robin say "marian" and knew that was his mother's name

 

I have to agree that's not really what we saw on scene, but makes me think Marian might be estranged from Roland. Which makes me more #TeamMarian than ever. 

Edited July 23, 2014 by retrograde

[Souris]

Hans just bugs me extra I think because there's this contingent of Frozen fans that already exist that are like "Hans really wasn't that bad" "Hans is better than Kristoff". It's like there are essays all about how Hans wasn't REALLY a villain because look how well he ran the kingdom while Anna was gone. And there's stuff like "Well except for the part where he left Anna to die, he was a good guy! And trying to kill Elsa doesn't make him a monster. What else could he do?" Like listen to yourselves, EXCEPT for the part where he left Anna to die? Yeah, that little old thing.

 

Oh, he'll fit RIGHT in with Once, then! Sometimes I despair of people, I really do.

 

I don't think Marian was estranged from Roland, he was just too young to remember her.

 

Maybe Elsa is hiding out at Zelena's farmhouse? She saw it was available for a sublease.

[KingOfHearts]

 

No he doesn't remember her.  In s3 finale he was ASKING if that was his mother.  Not remembering.

 

Still, I don't think he would immediately guess it was his mother like that, even if Robin said Marian. It just felt kind of... quick to me. It *sort of* makes sense, but for some reason I still feel weird about the swiftness of the Marian/Robin reunion. It still seems too good to be true to me.

Edited July 23, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[NotBothered]

I don't think Marian was estranged from Roland, he was just too young to remember her.

 

Maybe Elsa is hiding out at Zelena's farmhouse? She saw it was available for a sublease.

Well Elsa came through via the time portal, so it doesn't seem that strange that they would go back to investigate.  Of course they are going to find the urn, which means everyone will gang up on Emma instead of Rumple, who was the one to actually urn her. (I am taking the newspaper and the set report of her freezing the door of the pawnshop as confirmation.)

 

I am really very worried that we're going to see something with Roland being more responsive and attached to Regina than to Marian, because with this show's logic Regina will be the "mother he knows" vs. Marian being "the mother he doesn't remember."  

Edited July 23, 2014 by NotBothered

[Rumsy4]

I am really very worried that we're going to see something with Roland being more responsive and attached to Regina than to Marian, because with this show's logic Regina will be the "mother he knows" vs. Marian being "the mother he doesn't remember."  

 

Replying in the relationships thread. 

[pezgirl7]

Elsa froze the urn and it basically disintigrated, so there shouldn't be anything to find. Maybe Regina will make a snarky comment about Emma bringing someone else back she shouldn't have, but I don't think anyone else will blame her and Hook. Heck, if they somehow do find out that Elsa was in the urn, I can see Emma scolding Hook with a "See, I told you you shouldn't have touched anything!"

[legaleagle53]

It's hard to tell what is in the scene, and what is between takes.  I am wondering who both Emma and Henry would be talking to no the phone.  I really hope it is not more of everyone giving Emma and earful about how terrible it was for her to bring Marian back.  

 

I swear if ANYONE is on Regina's side, I might be done with the show.  Or I will at least start muting my television everyone her name comes up in conversation. 

 

Better learn to live with closed captioning, then.

[Emma]

In 8954, 8955, and 8956, Jared or Henry is glued to his phone.

I'm not 100% sure which he is there--but, if he's Henry, I approve that tweener Henry is still obsessed with his games and phone. That, at least, makes sense.

One of those set reports said Emma was talking on the phone then handed it to Henry while she talked with Charming. Pictures seem to back that up. Wonder if it's Regina or someone from NY perhaps?

[retrograde]

Is it possible Henry's talking to some friends back in NYC? Assuming the phone thing was on camera, we know it will either be proceeded or preceded by Snow commenting on how well Henry's dealing with all the effed-up stuff that has happened to him lately. It might be the show at least giving a nod to, yes, Henry had actual friends there and there are some thing he will miss. (I don't expect them to ever revisit it, but it would add a little realism to the situation).

[FurryFury]

This talk of Hans and his possible redemption makes me think that, once again, they'll have a villain who's technically done way less evil than some of our so-called heroes, which is really ironic. I mean, with Zelena, the worst thing she's done was deleting a year of memories (not nice, but not anything near the original dark curse), turning some people into monkeys and manipulating Neal into resurrecting Rumple (and Neal had ample opportunity to refuse). We never see her kill anyone.

And with Hans, it's the same (assuming they won't change his Frozen character too drastically). Yeah, he was a bad guy, and he did try to kill Elsa... but that's it. And to be honest, I found his motive way more understandable than Regina's temper tantrum over Snow or Rumple's usual motivation of "I had the power to do what I want to a person I dislike, so I did it". However, I'm quite sure they won't do try to redeem him or anything, we already have a misunderstood quasi-villain in Elsa, making a Draco in Leather Pants out of Hans is out of the question. 

[sharky]

There's also the issue that it seems like Disney is putting them on a tight leash with their star franchise so I'm assuming there may not be too much of a diversion from who Hans was in the movie. At least that's what I'm hoping with his.

[Amerilla]

Every new bit of information we get about 4A makes me more angry. We really don't need 6 (7 if the Knave is really coming) new characters in a show with 8 regulars and at least another 8 semiregulars. It' getting ridiculous.

 

 

I think a cast can expand infinitely, so long as it advances the overall story. That's going to be the problem, here - A&E don't seem to know or care much about their overall story at this point, and so, yes, this is most likely going to turn into a huge clusterf***, where the characters we care about are going to be sidelined for these shiny new toys. 

 

What makes me angry is that it seems like they're going to mimic the structure of the 3b arc. I believe I've read in a couple places that Georgina (and presumably the other Frozies) are booked for 9 episodes. So, presumably, they're going to diddle around in Frozen-land for those nine episodes, then close that arc, then have an almost separate two-parter with a cliffhanger leading into the winter hiatus. 

 

This is the level of cluelessness we're dealing with: they actually think 3b worked. They truly seem to believe that the Oz arc was tight, dramatic storytelling; we've generated pages and pages of plotholes, continuity gaffs, shoddy characterization and lack of emotional resonance. They truly see the finale sequence as "epic wish fulfillment;" a lot of us see it as the two-hour prison rape of their own mythology, characters and the entire genre of time travel.   

[patchwork]

I think so many new people can work so long as they don't split the season in the same way as 3. The hiatus leaves us with a midpoint climax but overall the season is more like s1 in pace and in how the big arc is dealt with

 

I liked Hans in Frozen his perceived goodness was a nice contrast to Elsa's perceived villainy but I will be forever disappointed he didn't have fire powers. 

[SilverShadow]

I enjoy the hell out of Hans. A couple things the creators dished: He's meant to portray someone raised "without love" (sorta Violdemort-ish) and he's an homage to the mirror from the orginal Snow Queen because he reflects what people want to see back at them. With Anna he's quirky and idealistic, he puts on the face of a strong ruler for the Duke, and with Elsa he projects responsibility and empathy. I do agree the twist happened way too fast and was such a cheat. There's a bit where Hans is swooning after Anna's already left and no one can see him that I found especially cheap.

 

I think if the writers use him well he could be interesting in Once. He's a villain doing his best to play the role of Prince Charming, according to all the archetypes he's familar with. That's pretty damn meta and a great fit for the show. My thinking, before it was revealed how tight a leash Disney is keeping on things, was that they might have combined Hans with Dead!James. But oh well. 

Edited July 23, 2014 by SilverShadow

[Curio]

So, presumably, they're going to diddle around in Frozen-land for those nine episodes, then close that arc, then have an almost separate two-parter with a cliffhanger leading into the winter hiatus.

 

I'm not sure they'll do a two-episode mini-movie finale thing again, but I'm actually okay with them continuing the whole "lets have completely separate mini seasons that have their own themes" thing. If we're to assume this show is going to last a while because, let's be realistic here... it airs on ABC and freaking Grey's Anatomy is still on the air, then Adam and Eddy are probably desperate to find ways to elongate the series without messing with their original vision. Even the best showrunners run out of interesting ideas after about 5 seasons, so I'm okay with traveling to different lands or bringing in new characters to make their original story longer and creating thematically different seasons. (See The Wire for a show that nailed having different thematic seasons brilliantly while having a large cast.) What I'm not okay with is the awful pacing and lack of character development that becomes a result of Once stretching its original plan. Just because a mini-season lasts only a couple days in story-time doesn't mean I should feel like we're walking in circles and all the plot points from the previous season are conveniently forgotten because we're spending half the season on flashbacks about these new characters that will eventually disappear from our screens.

 

I think the reason why some people might end up finding 4A rather pointless is the fact that they pretty much already confirmed we'll never see these new characters again after the 11 episodes are over. It's the same idiotic thing they did last year by saying "Oh yeah, the Wicked Witch is just a one arc character, she'll die by the end of the season." Like... way to take the suspense out of everything. The only bright spot in all of this is Mitchell's mysterious character - if she somehow carries over to 4B, maybe there'll be a better transition between the mini-seasons this time around.

[RadioGirl27]

I don't mind a large cast when it is used right. The problem here is that we are getting a lot of new characters for 11 episodes and then never see them again while the characters we know and like (and are going to stay) are totally sidelined.

[NotBothered]

I'm not sure they'll do a two-episode mini-movie finale thing again, but I'm actually okay with them continuing the whole "lets have completely separate mini seasons that have their own themes" thing. 

I'm okay with the split in theory, because it should lead to a tighter plot, less filler, and a chance to really focus on story elements.  However, they seem to be using it as a way to just burn through story.  Instead of a half season being about a theme, or a character, or a relationship they just seem to be using it as a chance to do a spinoff without actually launching a new show.  We're only in season four and we've already burned through Neverland, Oz, and Wonderland! 

 

If they're worried about not having enough story to last, it seems like they actually would be better off stretching the 1/2 season arcs to the full season, rather than the other way around.

[kili]

Are we really getting that many new characters for 4A compared to last year? Maybe it is because we are hearing about them all at once.

 

For 3A - we got Pan, Felix (although we had seen him before), some Lost Boys with some speaking lines, Shadow, Liam, Ariel, Eric, Tink, Wendy, John and Michael

For 3B - Zelena, Walsh, Glinda, Dorothy, three other witches, Zelena's parents, Blackbeard

 

Some got a lot of episodes, some a few and some just one. Hans seems like a Walsh/Wendy level of character while Kristoff is probably at a Felix level.

[Souris]

What makes me angry is that it seems like they're going to mimic the structure of the 3b arc. I believe I've read in a couple places that Georgina (and presumably the other Frozies) are booked for 9 episodes.

 

Elsa is for 9 eps, Kristoff for up to 6, and I can't remember the exact number for Anna, but it was somewhere between those two.

 

Some more pics from Stevenson filming last week. I want the leaf lady's Scottish shirt. Even though I'm not Scottish.

Edited July 23, 2014 by Souris

[BoPeeps]

Being familiar with A&E only through ONCE (did not watch Lost), I can see their focus on the two session season and the introduction of multi-new characters as being the norm for the rest of the run of the show.

 

The problems that arise specifically with following this pattern is keeping the main characters(actors) happy in their roles with enough to do so that they (as creative types) do not want to leave to do something with more involvement, elsewhere. It is a particularly hard process to multi task characters/plotlines, but it seems to fit the ADD personalities of the creators. We, as viewers have to hope our favorites get enough air time to make us happy fans. As actors, if they are given broad hiatus times several times a year, that frees them up creatively to try other things and still have the consistency and security of a stable job with the show. Best of all worlds IF they do it right!!

 

Episodic TV from the beginning of small screen programming has had basic core groups of permanent ensemble actors dealing with new guest stars every week. Think back to the classic years of formulaic westerns that lasted a LONGGGGG time. The expanding of the one time guest shot into a half season villain arc is a great concept that gives writers so much more of a playground for characters. ~IF you keep the ensemble busy at the same time with character growth.

 

ABC has basically said that they hope to have a spinoff, so in other words, this season's arc is leading to that probable spin off. Maybe, with the learning experience behind them of an oft-time mediocre *Wicked* and massively disjointed and unfocused arc, A&E will hopefully handle this arc much better. They just have too many ideas blasting off in all directions.

Frozen is much more risky and a timely topic than Oz was.

 

Zelena, in spite of her very amusing one liners, was a scenery chewing, over the top lunatic. Loose cannon extraordinaire. Dimly defined anything, just lots of extreme drama queen crap and ...freaking weird plot cross overs that started and ended in puffs of WTF was that smoke. Cohesive was not in the writers' word list for the season. The finale was actually a *third* session of the whole season that addressed the *serious* series regulars and their growth~ and a stand alone tale of it's own. It is amazing how they were able to tie in as much as they did. But frankly, Zelena fell far short of the much touted Evil vs Wicked and it was a lonnnnng set up just for a portal to the past so that we could be shown the real story of the regulars.

 

My mind had to split it into about a half dozen different pieces to still find it enjoyable escapism.

But, I WAS entertained. Mindlessly at times and sentimentally at others.

A&E lucked out. I think with Elsa they will be a bit more focused.

[Featherhat]

ABC has basically said that they hope to have a spinoff, so in other words, this season's arc is leading to that probable spin off

 

Didn't that just turn out to be Kristen at E! pulling a story out of her ass? And what they actually said was no plans (so far). Unless it does really well in the ratings I can see them proceeding with more caution than Wonderland *because* it is the current hottest property for Disney (excluding Marvel and Star Wars).

[retrograde]

Didn't that just turn out to be Kristen at E! pulling a story out of her ass?

Well she spun it a little and the headline writer spun it even further. But yeah, I would say ABC pretty much said the opposite -- that they don't have any plans for a spin-off, but aren't ruling it out. Personally, I think it's pretty unlikely. Another movie, video games, Happy Meal toys, more likely.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Some more pics from Stevenson filming last week. 

 

In one of those pictures, Hook is running and looking up. Looks like a giant snowman is invading after all.

 

(There is a giant snow monster in Frozen named "Marshmallow" created by Elsa for those of you who haven't seen it)

Edited July 23, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Dejajeva]

I don't mind more characters- As long as I can see Hook & Emma on a regular basis I could take or leave the rest. I don't really need to see Tink or Granny or Ariel or the Dwarves or whoever except occasionally. Charming I'll take- without Snow. I'm okay without seeing Henry too. lol. I like Regina, so I'm okay with her as long as she's just being really snarky.

[ParadoxLost]

In one of those pictures, Hook is running and looking up. Looks like a giant snowman is invading after all.

 

(There is a giant snow monster in Frozen named "Marshmallow" created by Elsa for those of you who haven't seen it)

 

Well I'm relieved by that.  Not having seen Frozen, I was playing out the only movie I'd seen with a giant marshmallow. Ghostbusters.

 

At least the only sailor around is being chased by marshmallow instead of turned into one.

 

I still think Emma, Rumple, and Regina save the town by crossing the streams (of magic).

[FurryFury]

Maybe, with the learning experience behind them of an oft-time mediocre *Wicked* and massively disjointed and unfocused arc, A&E will hopefully handle this arc much better. They just have too many ideas blasting off in all directions.

 

Adam and Eddy? Too many ideas? Do we watch the same show?

 

3B is a great example of a lack of ideas, I'd say. And it's painfully obvious they had no idea what to do with Neal (thus the wackage) and Belle (thus the endless annoying plots - I was so happy she was off-screen for most of 3A!) And a lot of ideas they do have are so clichéd (like revealing previously unknown relatives) I'd be happy without them.

 

Basically, I'm thinking the writers have been running out of ideas at least since the beginning of 3B, and in some parts of the show, since season 2, and it's only going to get worse, probably. And the ideas they do have, they don't always develop well.

Edited July 24, 2014 by FurryFury

[myril]

Episodic TV from the beginning of small screen programming has had basic core groups of permanent ensemble actors dealing with new guest stars every week. Think back to the classic years of formulaic westerns that lasted a LONGGGGG time. The expanding of the one time guest shot into a half season villain arc is a great concept that gives writers so much more of a playground for characters. ~IF you keep the ensemble busy at the same time with character growth.

 

But weren't and aren't those shows mostly procedurals? Guest star a week, different story each week, with the main cast and a bit of their story keeping it together, in a western the setting of a town, valley, farm, in other shows it's mostly job related. It's the concept that many crime shows have and works as well quite nicely for medic shows. The case of the week concept. For Once that would be something like a fairy tale a week. But we have a set of new characters added for a story arc going over a number of episodes, a half season plus eventually guest characters for an episode.

 

And have seen rants concerning procedurals not giving enough story to the main characters and their development, while others ranted the moment an episode was dedicated to one of the main characters, because they were in it for the cases. It depends a lot on what people watch a show for - and Once is a show that least by now many, the most vocal fans for sure, watch for specific characters and their story - and not the fairy tale of the week. I often call it Once Upon a Soap Opera (Tale) because the show has more the narrative structure of soap opera (particular with their endless pool of new family members).

 

The reactions in the fandom to these casting news (every week a new one?) show to me people are nervous about how important their beloved characters still are for the show, how much story they still will get. Is that reasonable? Probably not. On the other hand people have already the feeling, that their faves are getting the short end, which i though would blame less the guest stars and half-season-arc characters for but that Regina has become so shiny (not saying she actually get more and more quality screen time, but the point is it seems like she does), that it is hard to see the other main characters and their developments. So far people can't connect besides Rumple the other main characters of the show with Frozen. And the other much talked about story for the upcoming season is about Regina and her lover Robin. So there are worries, that others will get even less attention in the upcoming season. Listing how many guest characters/actors were on the show in the past seasons, as Adam did on Twitter, doesn't dispel these doubts. It's not about numbers, it's about reception and impressions, the non-statistical part of psychology.

Edited July 24, 2014 by katusch

[Joenigma]

 

I can see their focus on the two session season and the introduction of multi-new characters as being the norm for the rest of the run of the show

I can see that too, but isn't this proof they are creatively bankrupt?

 

 

Basically, I'm thinking the writers have been running out of ideas at least since the beginning of 3B, and in some parts of the show, since season 2, and it's only going to get worse, probably. And the ideas they do have, they don't always develop well.

The writers ran out of ideas the moment they decided to break the curse at the end of Season 1. Season 2 was a clusterf!@$ of them trying every idea that came to them. "Oh lets say the Enchanted Forest is gone" and then the next episode "Lets send Emma and Snow to the Enchanted Forest that survived!" It was obvious to me the decision to split the season was clear sign as to they have no idea what the endgame should be for this show.

 

As for 4A, I have a feeling the Flashbacks will have more development than the present world because they'll be doing their fan-fiction writing in the Post-Frozen movie world. However by 4-4 they'll get tried with their new shiny toys and begin to focus on who to bring for 4B

[NotBothered]

And we have our first still. It does not have me overcome with excitement. 

 

I am mainly overcome with concern about how bad Kristoff's hair looks from the back and how silly Anna's braids will look if we're being this literal with all the costumes.

[Lieutenant]

First look at Elsa + Kristoff....hmmm, interesting costume for him.  Can't say it does much for me either.

Edited July 24, 2014 by Lieutenant

[FurryFury]

I hope they'll add something to Elsa and her costume in post-production, because right now, I'm just not feeling it. I mean, with Ariel, it was a 100% hit, look-wise (too bad they did nothing with the character), but Elsa is kinda meh. Of course, her acting may change that, and I hope it does. I actually liked Elsa a lot, although I'm not a fan of Frozen in general.

[kili]

I am mainly overcome with concern about how bad Kristoff's hair looks from the back

 

Why has he got such short hair? If you are going to shave off his mop, might as well give Elsa a pixie cut. Actually, they should ask Jennifer to do Elsa's braids (she's got mad skills at braiding hair and that braid Elsa is sporting is a little ragged and loose).

 

I gather that is a fairyback since the barn looks a little fancier than one would expect a Storybrooke barn to look (plus the candle lamp instead of electricity).

Edited July 24, 2014 by kili

[NotBothered]

I gather that is a fairyback since the barn looks a little fancier than one would expect a Storybrooke barn to look (plus the candle lamp instead of electricity).

I'm guessing this is the barn where they are keeping Sven the Reindeer.

[Aliasscape]

Scott Michael Foster probably hasn't had long hair in awhile. Note his recent work on Chasing Life. So I don't think it's the OUAT people that cut it.

[CatMack]

I was a bit iffy when the first BTS pics came out because they were fairly low quality and you couldn't see detail.  But now that I can see a lot more of the intricacies of Elsa's costume, I have zero problem with it.  I think it's quite lovely.  Some of the costumes on this show are atrocious (Ariel and Snow's mullet dresses, Blue's froufrou boob dress, the thing Regina was wearing for several episodes in the flashbacks at the beginning of 3B that looked like it was trying to suffocate her boobs), but this has some really nice beading without being over the top, and it fits her which is a lot more than can be said of some of the dresses they've inflicted on their actresses.  I like it.  My problem is if they end up sticking her in only this costume for the entirety of her time on the show, even in flashbacks.  Yes, it's iconic, but even movie Elsa didn't wear it the whole time, and it would be weird if she never changes clothes even when she's back in her kingdom in the past. 

 

I'm not going to judge Kristof based mostly on his back. 

[shipperx]

Meh on Hans, I thought the whole "I'm actually a giant asshole" twist was lame, not that it happened, but how it did, I wasn't surprised to hear it wasn't planned from the beginning. Then he was carted home by his brothers.

About a year ago I listened an interesting interview with the headwriter of "Frozen" on some screen writing site.   She said point blank that Hans is a sociopath, that he's a sociopath from beginning to end of the movie, that what he does is mimic whoever he's with, so when he's with Anna he's cute and hammy, when he's with Elsa he's serious and "heroic", etc. but that there's no "THERE" there.  He's just mimicking the behavior that he's around in order to ingratiate himself to the person he's speaking to in order to get what he wants.  (She also said that the point at which he realized how to manipulate Anna was when she first introduced herself as 'not important' and "just Anna".  He realized that she was dismissive about herself and that he could manipulate to get what he wanted.

 

The writer laughed about it, but was pretty unequivical that Hans was a hollow fake to the bone and was intentionally written to be a complete sociopath (who is good at it).

 

She had lots of interesting things to say about how the script for Frozen evolved over time as they figured out the story, saying when she was given the script (it had been in development multiple times over 30 years but never quite worked)... Anyway, when she was given the script she was basically told that she had to have Anna save Elsa through an act of true love and that anything she did to 'earn' that was fine.  Just make the story work.  At that point. Anna and Elsa weren't even sisters in the script.  That came later.  Elsa was also supposed to be a 'redeemable villain' but once they hired lyricists and the lyricists wrote "Let it Go" from Elsa's perspective, she realized they had to go back and re-write the script because Elsa wasn't really a villain at all.

 

I was particularly amused by her saying how much she enjoyed the fan theory that Anna and Elsa's parents didn't 'really' die in the shipwreck, but got shipwrecked in Africa and had baby Tarzan (making him their brother).  It doesn't actually WORK (for various reasons) but she really enjoyed that fan theory anyway.

Edited July 24, 2014 by shipperx

[stealinghome]

I haven't seen Frozen, but I have to say that both Georgina Haig and Scott Michael Foster look perfectly acceptable to me in this shot!

[Serena]

I think I just realized how much of a big deal this storyline is gonna be when Time got the first look. Usually, it's Entertainment Weekly at the most. I don't know that Time has ever featured OUAT before.

[KingOfHearts]

What caught me most with the still is the look in Elsa's face. I'm glad they're going for a more serious Elsa, it seems. She doesn't have "Disney-princess-costume" all over her face. The conviction in her eyes feels very human and closer to the Elsa in the movie than the marketed one that comes to Disney parks.

[Featherhat]

The writer laughed about it, but was pretty unequivical that Hans was a hollow fake to the bone and was intentionally written to be a complete sociopath (who is good at it).

 

I've read that interview or a similar one just like it. I totally get it, I like the idea, it just fell flat to me in execution, the way they blocked it out. I do think he's actually one character that OUAT can do just about anything to (besides total genuine woobification) and it will work because he is supposed to be a sociopath and mimic what those around him want/need to get what he wants.

 

The new promo pic is ok, but I'm really gonna have to see some footage of all of them to see how its shaping up.

[Souris]

A couple small filming tidbits:

 

Lindsay B @lemon_buzz  ·  2h

#OUAT filming interiors at Van Tech tomorrow #yvrshoots @olv

 

Ken @pursuit23  ·  4h

According to @gettinmyhateon Once Upon a Time is filming at Regina's house in New west #yvrshoots #ouat #OnceUponATime @olv