Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[InsertWordHere]

Of course with a name like Cruella DeVil, convincing people you're not evil sounds like quite a challenge.

Nah, it's easy! Evil isn't born, it's made by poor baby naming choices. She'll fit right in with Queen Queen.

[Curio]

Is it bad that I'm happy that Hook seems to be kicking ass in the promo? Still can't tell though if he's cursed. He does look a bit evil, but he could just be annoyed at Will, could be under Rumple's orders, or could just be evil.

 

I know, I'm trying to debate that too. His expression looks like he's kind of angry, but if he was under the spell he'd probably want to attack Will with all he's got, not deflect him into a wall. I'm going to go with: a normal Hook is really irked after landing on his ass after the marble incident, and now has to deal with a pissed off Will immediately afterward.

[pezgirl7]

More set photos (pap warning)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/49347467@N05/page1/

I'm thinking Josh getting in Cruella's car is just him playing around?

Edited December 3, 2014 by pezgirl7

[retrograde]

More photos. Includes some steamy Snowing action in David's truck.

[HeimrArnadalr]

After reading about Cruella's car I've learned that in the book (and live-action movie) the car was black and white, although in the animated movie it was red. Once's version seems to combine the color scheme from the book with the shape of the animated car. The only things it's missing are the curly horn on the right side and the 'angry eyebrows' on the headlights.

 

Anyway I love it and now I'm really looking forward to the next half season, particularly if there's a car chase. Crazy woman drivers...

[Emma]

I didn't think anyone could top EM as the DQ but if you can go by pictures I'm super excited about Cruella

http://www.spoilertv.com/2014/12/once-upon-time-episode-413-bts-photos.html?m=1

Lots of repeat pics here but there's a couple new ones I hadn't seen. Like the one where Emma has just kissed Hook on the cheek.

[Writing Wrongs]

I hope that Pongo gets a bigger role. We haven't seen him since "Cricket Game", have we?

[sharky]

Eh, those townspeople bought ice cream from a new ice cream shop before realizing the Snow Queen ran the place. It wouldn't surprise me that they wouldn't bat an eye at Cruella and Ursula. Although it does make you wonder what the rest of the eccentric people in town are like.

[YaddaYadda]

I guess everyone just assumed that she came with the curse which is totally normal.

 

Also, I saw a close-up o the top Ursula is wearing and it's like fish scales (purplish/black).  I thought it was cool.  That's why people who work in wardrobe do fabulous jobs and why I sit behind my lap top wondering how they will be dressing this or that character.  God, I'm envious!

 

ETA - It occurred to me that Rumple is probably taking Hook back to the abandoned manor to finish him off which might explain why everyone ends up there.

Edited December 3, 2014 by YaddaYadda

[The Cake is a Pie]

I'm glad they finally have Snow back in a cute coat and a bright color. Those pastel sweaters she's been wearing were just so bland.

[HoodlumSheep]

I hope that Pongo gets a bigger role. We haven't seen him since "Cricket Game", have we?

I'm hoping we at least get a sighting of Pongo too. I also really want to see Perdita. Maybe Pongo and Perdita will be the ones to break whatever curse happens in 4b?

Actually I'm hoping that 4b doesn't have a mega curse (one that envelopes the town in a giant cloud of purple smoke). If Maleficent is there I'm hoping the "curse" of the season is a sleeping curse. Maybe if we're lucky, there will be some continuity and Maleficent could find that sleeping curse needle Zelena had taken from Regina in 3b?????

Can't wait to see how Cruella and Ursula become evil bffs.

[Curio]

Is anyone else really worried about how they're going to fit everything into these last two episodes? We still have to have the young Emma and Ingrid flashbacks, we apparently have a face-off between Emma, Elsa, Anna, and the Snow Queen, we have a bunch of people beating each other up, Emma still needs to find out about Hook's missing heart and get it back to him, Belle has to find out about the dagger and confront Rumple about it, they have to set up the curse for the next season, and then there also has to be a big Frozen farewell. We might even see Rumple go to NYC?? Or is that a 4B scene? 

 

If anything, I would have saved the extended two-hour episode for one of these episodes, not a random episode in the middle of the season. I feel like we had so many slow filler episodes in the middle only to go into super-overdrive for these final two. Wasn't the whole point of splitting the seasons up into 11 episode arcs to avoid pacing issues like this?

[YaddaYadda]

Is anyone else really worried about how they're going to fit everything into these last two episodes?

 

Totally with you on this one.  I think they bit off more than they can chew.  I'm hoping the curse lasts like half of the episode as opposed to a whole one.  And it also seems like it's going to go the same way for 4B where there seems to be tons of stuff to deal with.

 

I think they might find out about the dagger at the end of next episode.  Rumple hightailed it from the diner the moment he heard that Anna had been found and headed his way.  It's a matter of time before she says something because she doesn't know the meaning of stop talking.  I'm still hoping Hook's message comes into play as well.  If that happens, then Emma will be clued it as to why he is missing (locator spell!  They seem to be fond of it these days). 

 

411 will be a full house. 

[Serena]

Is anyone else really worried about how they're going to fit everything into these last two episodes? We still have to have the young Emma and Ingrid flashbacks, we apparently have a face-off between Emma, Elsa, Anna, and the Snow Queen, we have a bunch of people beating each other up, Emma still needs to find out about Hook's missing heart and get it back to him, Belle has to find out about the dagger and confront Rumple about it, they have to set up the curse for the next season, and then there also has to be a big Frozen farewell. We might even see Rumple go to NYC?? Or is that a 4B scene? 

 

If anything, I would have saved the extended two-hour episode for one of these episodes, not a random episode in the middle of the season. I feel like we had so many slow filler episodes in the middle only to go into super-overdrive for these final two. Wasn't the whole point of splitting the seasons up into 11 episode arcs to avoid pacing issues like this?

Do we know there's gonna be a curse for next season?

 

I think we're gonna get Emma, Anna and Elsa defeating the Snow Queen while everyone else fights in the background (plus flashbacks). White they're fretting about the Snow Queen's curse, Rumple will set up the spell to free himself from the dagger. I'm betting the episode ends with some kind of cliffhanger: Emma (or Belle) finds the voicemail, or realizes that Hook is heartless; or Belle realizes that the dagger is fake. If they want to involve Will in this mess, he may find out somehow while beating up Hook that he's heartless (this could be good, actually, since Will actually has experience being heartless. It'd make sense), so the end of the episode could be Will showing up at the Charmings while everyone is happy the curse is over and being like "ehm, sorry to interrupt but I've got something to share". Then the finale can be Stop Rumple. Another possibility is that Rumple sends Hook to kidnap Henry and that's how people realize what he's up to. 

I definitely think the jig will be up for him by the end of 410, and 411 will be Everyone Vs Rumple.

[Curio]

Do we know there's gonna be a curse for next season?

 

Not necessarily a curse I suppose, but a problem/twist is introduced. I can't find the link at the moment, but Adam & Eddy said it was their favorite twist yet.

[YaddaYadda]

but Adam & Eddy said it was their favorite twist yet.

 

Everything is their favorite twist yet. 

 

I still think we're headed towards some sort of Storybrooke version of the Pirates of the Caribbean.  They always start dropping stuff early enough. 

[Mari]

I still think we're headed towards some sort of Storybrooke version of the Pirates of the Caribbean.  They always start dropping stuff early enough. 

That would  make sense considering the recent Blackbeard appearance, but we've got Maleficent, Ursula, and Cruella happening, too.  Plus, aren't we supposed to get more Robin background, as well as whatever's going on with Will Scarlett?  Ursula would tie in well with the Pirates of the Caribbean thing, but I'm a little stuck on the rest.  Hook would, too, but how many minutes will he get in 4B, considering if they follow pattern it's going to be the Regina (and Robin?) story? 

 

That's a lot of story.  Especially when you add in the Operation Mongoose thing.  How are they going to tie all of that together?  Because right now it looks like a giant mess of huh.

[YaddaYadda]

I was thinking in terms of S5 rather than 4B where I'm sure they'll continue to drop hints here and there.  We're supposed to get some more of Hook's backstory regarding his father, we're still not sure who he traded his ship to though Blackbeard could be a possibility (but I don't buy it because of the whole cursed lips bit).  There was that pop up book that Will picked up in the library which I thought was a hint towards the Jolly Roger which actually gets talked about the very next episode.  They have Ursula, so the possibilities are there.

 

Last season, they suddenly started talking about frozen yogurt and ice cream, so I guess the Snow Queen was going to come this season regardless of Frozen or not.  And they're always these that are so easy to dismiss, like last episode when Elsa and Emma were going into the library, Emma mentioned how a dragon was kept under there for 28 years. If I wasn't spoiled, I would not even have zeroed in on that. I would have been the dragon you fought and then the thing it became when Hook had to fight it too.  I never in a million years would think that Maleficent was on her way back.

[Leia1979]

I know I'm late on the photos, but I love Cruella's hair. It's perfect without being Glenn Close scary. I want Emma's grey coat, and thank goodness they finally put Snow in a cute outfit again (except the beret). 

[Souris]

Aw man, I clicked the link thinking it would be a photo of Hook and Emma holding hands. Rats. LOL Still, I'm a happy camper. :) I'm sure there will be photos soon enough. Looks like Hook has a new shirt. I like the color, I just hope it doesn't have some weird pattern. Hard to tell from that photo.

 

Well, his shirt does have a pattern. I think it's kind of weird, but not nearly as bad as that one previous eyesore. It seems like he's changing his shirt regularly, but the rest of the outfit remains the same.

 

And add me to the list of those thinking they've got a crap-ton of stuff to fit into the last two eps.

Edited December 3, 2014 by Souris

[pezgirl7]

Well, his shirt does have a pattern. I think it's kind of weird, but not nearly as bad as that one previous eyesore. It seems like he's changing his shirt regularly, but the rest of the outfit remains the same.

 

I guess it's not too bad. Wow his eyes look really blue in that photo. I'm glad they keep putting him in blue shirts. Is it just me, or do his pants look less shiny?

 

I wonder what the plot with Ursula and Cruella will be. They must have some agenda, that our heroes will have to stop, but I have no idea what it could be.

[Serena]

Matt from TVLine confirms what we've all speculated about

 

 

 

Any scoop on what’s coming up for Once Upon a Time‘s Hook? –Stef
I am hearing that, as perhaps hinted by Swan’s conspicuous reaction to last Sunday’s liplock, Hook’s heartlessness will indeed impact Emma – and that Belle will get pulled into his predicament, as things get ever dicier. Bonus Scoop: For Episode 15, Once is casting the possibly recurring role of a king whose crown was hard-won, and the fight to keep it has taken a toll. He is also described as “handsome, though not refined, and highly protective of his family.”

 

YES! My Hook-and-Belle-become-BFFs-and-then-she-hires-him-as-assistant theory LIVES!

[RadioGirl27]

I have found this scan from TV Guide on tumblr. It seems that Robin is indeed going back to EF with Marian.

[Souris]

TVLine on Hook's predicament and a king being cast. (ETA: Oops, sorry, didn't see it had been posted already.)

 

Maybe Belle will find Emma’s phone while locked up in the shop and hear the message. And there were BTS filming shots of Hook, Rumple and Belle together from a scene we haven’t seen yet.

 

Since we’re supposed to get more backstory for Robin (zzzzzz) in 4B, maybe the king is Richard or John. (Though as you know, I would prefer they not use REAL historic personages like Blackbeard in the show, but it seems inevitable with the Robin backstory.) I’m sure it’s not the case, but I’d like the king to be the corrupt king that Killian and Liam served.

Edited December 3, 2014 by Souris

[pezgirl7]

Hmm that TV Guide article makes it sound like the only way to save Marian is to go back the EF. I thought she'd be saved with the Snow Queen was defeated. I wonder how they get a portal back to the EF?

[YaddaYadda]

They can send the Frozen gang and douche together.  Arendelle is apparently really close to the EF. 

[Serena]

Hmm that TV Guide article makes it sound like the only way to save Marian is to go back the EF. I thought she'd be saved with the Snow Queen was defeated. I wonder how they get a portal back to the EF?

The same way Elsa and co. will, I guess. Maybe the only way to save Marian is in Arendelle, so Robin goes with her otherwise Roland would be separated from mom again?

[HoodlumSheep]

Matt from TVLine confirms what we've all speculated about

YES! My Hook-and-Belle-become-BFFs-and-then-she-hires-him-as-assistant theory LIVES!

Huzzah! If they keep sharing scenes at this rate, they'll be besties in no time! Hear that Tumblr?

In all seriousness, I do look forward to their scenes together whether or not it's on friendly terms. I just think Colin and Emile have good chemistry together.

As for a king being cast...

I'll go with King Richard the Lionheart. We're supposed to get more background on Robin in 4b aren't we? The description sounds like it could be King Richard.

[KingOfHearts]

Maybe the rock trolls can heal Marian as they did in the movie. They only can because the curse hasn't touched her heart. I'm guessing they use the Wishing Star to get back, so its all or nothing.

I'm going with Richard too. You could say he had to protect his throne from Prince John.

Edited December 3, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[OnceUponAJen]

I'm wondering if they're setting up a parallel with Snow for Emma. Snow was afraid to let go of the baby, and perhaps Emma doesn't want to be apart from Hook after the heartless scare. The BTS photos of 4B might indicate this.

[Mitch]

Hmm..that promo looks like Regina has no magic...she is EQ but looks bedraggled and pushes her way in. I love me some pissed Regina with no powers..it makes her even bitchier..(cant wait to see her get thrown through the door...Snow and Regina have had a Dynasty cat fight coming to them for a looongg time.)  It also looks like she can't get out of her own trap so Emma and Elsa bursting in must somehow release her. I hope Regina gets to smack Grumpy in his face with a pan of hot Lasanga..."Extra Spicy," she can say with glee!

 

Cruella and Ursala look fun...hey if this show can make no sense at least be campy OT fun with good villains. The show has been dying for some evil besties and I hope they move next door to Regina and empty their over flowing ash trays on her Hydrangeas.

[scenicbyway]

I'd say they are going the Sword in the Stone route with the king.  Wouldn't that be Arthur, who was raised as a pauper?  That could be why he's not refined, but handsome.  We've already seen Snow "pull" Excalibur from the stone, this would be a nice nod to that.  It could also connect Hook to the "corrupt" King.  It's possible he wasn't corrupt at all, Hook just jumped to conclusions in his grief.

 

Robin definitely goes back to the EF with Marian.  I don't really understand how she can only be cured there though.  Perhaps they'll travel to Arendelle first for the cure and then on to the EF.  So basically, the 4b finale will be Regina and Henry (Operation Mongoose) traveling to EF to get to Robin before it's too late?  I wonder if she'll put a memory curse on him before he leaves with Marian?  I still think their romance has been on fast forward and made easy by the whole fairy dust/tattoo thing.  This might be a good way to slow them down. 

 

I really hope that Blackbeard is Hook's father.  I think Adam said at one point he wasn't, on twitter with his usual #no spoilers, but it's not like he could really say either, right?  CM looks so much like a combo of Liam and Hook, I just can't believe they'd waste that casting.  Thinking about the magic bean and the Jolly.  Who else would want an enchanted pirate ship, but a pirate, who else would have a magic bean, but a pirate.  I just feel like there was a lot of foreshadowing in the "Jolly Roger" and the 3b finale that pirates have things that are hard to come by and the Jolly is a special ship that Blackbeard and Hook were willing to fight to the death to keep in their respective possession so it make sense that Hook traded the ship to BB for the bean.  I've also seen on Tumblr that the pattern in the chest (on the fabric or wallpaper)that Kristoff and Anna climbed out of matches the flowers on Hook's ring.  It's Hook's chest, I hope he gets it back. 

 

I'm most interested to see how Hook's heartlessness affects Emma.  Does she see him hatting people? Or is it more physical like when Charming felt Snow bite the poisoned apple?  I wouldn't be surprised if Rumple decides to perform the spell in front of Belle and she saves Hook's heart.  Obviously, Rumple will need the dagger to perform the spell and Belle will realize she's not in control.  I have real doubts that Henry will actually willingly go with Rumple.

 

I can't figure out how they are going to have time to do anything with Will this season a or b.  I didn't watch Wonderland, so other than knowing he's already ended up with his true love, but some how lost her, I have no idea why he's on the show, other than some comic relief.  How will they tell his story, Operation Mongoose, Ursula, Cruella, Maleficent, and whatever Rumple's cooking up?

[YaddaYadda]

Who else would want an enchanted pirate ship, but a pirate, who else would have a magic bean, but a pirate.  I just feel like there was a lot of foreshadowing in the "Jolly Roger" and the 3b finale that pirates have things that are hard to come by and the Jolly is a special ship that Blackbeard and Hook were willing to fight to the death to keep in their respective possession so it make sense that Hook traded the ship to BB for the bean.

 

I think anyone would want to have an enchanted ship.  Before she was the Jolly Roger, she was the Jewel of the Realm and belonged to the royal navy.  I'd think that ship was likely the pride of that navy.  Blackbeard found the ship after it was transported back by Pan's curse, so of course he'd want to keep it. 

 

If Hook traded the ship to Blackbeard, then the lip curse would be absolutely contrived.  Not that it wasn't already, but it would be even more contrived now.

 

Arthur coming on the show would be interesting though I really want them to stay away from that because Arthur is Arthur, the Once and Future King and the books I've read over and over are about the Arthurian legend and one of my favorite books still to this day is the Mists of Avalon and I still cry at the end of it.  Once will never do that story justice.  Arthur will become this coward or some ridiculous thing and I dread that so much.  Arthur is probably the best way to introduce characters like Merlin, Morgan and Morgause because they will be needing magic to power the show for however many seasons they have left.

[Shanna Marie]

If Hook traded the ship to Blackbeard, then the lip curse would be absolutely contrived.  Not that it wasn't already, but it would be even more contrived now.

Yeah, his whole guilt trip about trying to go back to the way he used to be and seriously believing that Eric was dead because of his actions wouldn't work if he knew Blackbeard survived. He also wouldn't have known to go looking for Blackbeard to sell his ship if he thought Blackbeard was dead. He likely sold the ship to someone else, who then sold it or lost it to Blackbeard. It would be nice if at some point someone gets to connect the dots -- like Anna blurts something that makes them all realize they were on the Jolly Roger and that Blackbeard has her, and then this is all what makes everyone other than Emma learn that Hook gave up his ship for her. You'd think that would finally chill David a bit.

 

I would also think that there was little point in having Blackbeard be the pirate Anna and Kristoff dealt with and them being on the Jolly Roger if that's not going to come up again. Maybe not this season, but soon.

[pezgirl7]

Maybe I'm not remember correctly, but I feel like even if Blackbeard had survived, Hook still could have felt guilty. Maybe Ariel wasn't the one who saved Blackbeard, or perhaps Blackbeard didn't tell Hook. Then Hook could still feel guilty because he wouldn't have known at the time of the lip curse that Ariel found Eric. Just because Blackbeard was alive doesn't mean that Eric would have survived. What leverage would Ariel of had to get him released? We know now that maybe her saving BB was enough for him to let Eric live, but Hook might not know that. And then if Hook did trade the Jolly to BB, he might even feel more guilty, because he was willing to part with his ship for his own love, but not Ariel's. I really hope they explain all of this next year though! And not just explain it, but show it in flashbacks.

[Souris]

I hope the king isn't Arthur, because they've already got so many characters in 4B. If they're doing Arthurian legend, I want them to do it properly, not as a throwaway (which is what they did with Lancelot, which still bugs me). Tossing Arthur in a half a season when they already have Cruella, Ursula and Maleficent is just too much IMO.

 

I also don't want Blackbeard to be Hook's father, because: 1) Hook was old enough when his father abandoned him to remember what he looked like; and 2) There would have to be some contrived reason why Blackbeard was also able to stay alive and not age for 300 years. If we must have Blackbeard, I prefer him as a foil to Hook, not a relative. I'm all for Davy Jones as Hook's father, though!

[KingOfHearts]

Adam and Eddie reviewing footage of Cruella's car (picture):

https://twitter.com/jenmorrisonlive/status/540301341503926272

 

101.10 : @AdamHorowitzLA and @jollychan4 in action! #101Smiles

Edited December 4, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[SilverShadow]

I wonder if the king will be King Triton, since Ursula's coming on.

[retrograde]

Confirmation that Josh was just messing around in Cruella's car.

 

Also, the Charmings were reportedly putting "ropes and flashlights" in the back of the truck, so probably not moving boxes. If predictions of a small time-jump are correct, they could use that to avoid having to actually show Emma moving, which would be hard to avoid given this show's generally glacial pace. 

 

Based on the 22 (!) BTS pics JMo tweeted today, they seem to be shooting Emma, Charming, Cruella and Ursula in the forest. Seems to be the same outfit as yesterday's filming, so later that day, I guess? 

[Dianthus]

So, one possibility: Hook (on a mission from Gold) dodges drunken Will Scarlett only to be felled by Henry's marbles. While he's down for the count, Henry calls Emma, but Belle answers. Do we know if Snowing have a land line? It seemed like E/E/A were back at the apartment with BDO.

I'd prefer Emma to hear Killian's msg, rather than Belle, or, at least, they hear it together.

 

Looking further ahead...Emma planting one on Hook's cheek in full view of her dad? More yay!

[Curio]

Okay, so maybe I'm just reading too much into this photo from Jen's Twitter, but it looks like the magical 1980s Snow Queen door is in the same room Rumple tried to lure Emma into. Interesting.

 

Edit: Actually, it looks like it's in the ballroom with the chandelier. You can also barely see the wooden poles of the second floor balcony. 

Edited December 4, 2014 by Curio

[retrograde]

Oooh, well spotted. That is definitely the same door, and that does look like the mansion. (Unless that's a sound stage and it just happens to be in the background).

[YaddaYadda]

Oooh, well spotted. That is definitely the same door, and that does look like the mansion. (Unless that's a sound stage and it just happens to be in the background).

 

There's a carpet on the floor.  When was this taken?  Today or when the gang was filming at the mansion last time?  There's already more to the house given that the hat was found there.  Wonder if it's still in play (the house).

[Souris]

JMo's on a photo tear: Three BTS pics of Colin/Hook.

Edited December 4, 2014 by Souris

[retrograde]

There's a carpet on the floor.  When was this taken?  Today or when the gang was filming at the mansion last time?  There's already more to the house given that the hat was found there.  Wonder if it's still in play (the house).

That particular photo seems to be from a set taken by Josh across a period of time, so hard to say when it it from, though not likely today.

 

From the twits:

repeatinglitanies ‏@repeatlitanies  Dec 2

@AdamHorowitzLA @KalindaVazquez @JaneEspenson what's Rumple prepared to do to get Belle & Henry out of Storybrooke?

Kalinda Vazquez ‏@KalindaVazquez

@repeatlitanies quite a bit as you'll come to see!

 

Stephanie Platts ‏@stephanieplatts  Dec 1

@AdamHorowitzLA @KalindaVazquez Gold wants to cross the town line with Belle and Henry, but won't that erase their memories?

Kalinda Vazquez @KalindaVazquez

@stephanieplatts keep in mind he has a lot of magic up his sleeve...

 

Edited December 4, 2014 by retrograde

[Curio]

There's a carpet on the floor.  When was this taken?  Today or when the gang was filming at the mansion last time?  There's already more to the house given that the hat was found there.  Wonder if it's still in play (the house).

 

The bottom of the photo says "OCT 84" so I'm assuming some time in October. When were they filming these last two episodes? Would that align up with the filming timeline?

 

And I'm now like 99% positive that door is in the ballroom. If you go to 1:32 in this video, you can see Belle opening up the same sliding doors and there's a rug behind them. The diamond shape floor details are also the same as the Twitter photo. (Wow, I totally feel like Nancy Drew right now...)

Edited December 4, 2014 by Curio

[Rumsy4]

Maybe the Sorceror was trapped inside the Hat, and when Rumple activated it, he, or the Apprentice, gets released from it. Either the Sorceror or the Apprentice could recreate the door portal to send the Frozen gang, along with Marian and Robin, back to Arendelle.

[chrisvee]

Jen and Colin are adorable. Spoilers are feeling like Captain Swann is a very settled couple. Hope that means she got his heart back!

[YaddaYadda]

I was asking about the pics because I posted this morning that it seemedlikely that Rumple would head back there tofinish the job with the hat and Hook. If the hat is reversed, then the Apprentice will come out with the fairies, so yeah, he seems to have the power to make the door reappear. Guess that solves the pesky problem of realm hopping.

[retrograde]

I guess that's how Robin and his family and the Frozens get back home.