Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[NotBothered]

 

If they give her and Robin the Gerda/Kai story I WILL FLIP EVERY TABLE IN EXISTENCE

I am so upset because now it seems so obvious.  Of course they're going to get it.  And it is going to unbearable. 

[Emma]

That will likely be the final nail in the coffin if they pull a 3B by building up Emma's story just to hand the biggest moment to Regina again.

[Serena]

I guess we will have more of an idea with tomorrow's filming in Steveston, but I don't see reasons for jumping to conclusions just because of the picture of Regina there. They probably have pics of Regina all over the place in case they feel the sudden need to worship. But also, would they really give a big plot like that to Regina and Robin in the *same episode* where we get a a young Emma flashback, like we know we're getting in 410? 

[stealinghome]

Given that everyone has said that 4B is going to be Regina and Outlaw Queen heavy, I don't see Regina and Robin getting the Kai/Gerda story. What drama would then be left for them in 4B?

[Souris]

I may have just broken my mind with that horrible thought. I think that might be all she wrote for me with this show if that comes to pass. I just can't anymore. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever narratively speaking, but this show has such a perma Regina-boner that all logical bets are always off.

 

Do we know for sure whether the Emma flashback is 4.09 or 4.10? I think people think they're on 4.10, but I haven't seen for sure.

[Jean]

Are the Frozen people gone by 4x09 or 4x10? I think that's going to determine a lot of things. We know Anna/Elsa will get to step up and get one of the climatic moments. That's possible with Emma since she doesn't have to save the day. The other not so much.

 

 

Shattered Sight. Breaking Glass. Smash the Mirror.

 

Maybe I'm giving them too much credit but I still think the DQ is the Kai/Gerda of the story. Breaking Glass is young Emma/DQ flashback. Smash the Mirror is the one we saw with DQ and the fancy door in 80s real world right? Or was that for 4x07? And last night there were reports of teen Emma and DQ? Was that 4x10 or still 4x09? In a callback to Frozen, I think the DQ will save Emma from the hat and therefore redeem herself too.

 

This is also the episode where Robert said shit hits the fan for Rumple.

 

The writers are also 2 brand new ones right? That's a good sign no? It means there's a chance these newbies haven't been indoctrinated into the Biggest Victim ever cult just yet. And it also means A&E went: "Damn we have to wrap up this story and since there's no time to squeeze in some "all hail Saint Leech" we can't possibly write it. Someone else needs to take this."

Edited October 21, 2014 by Jean

[kili]

Given that everyone has said that 4B is going to be Regina and Outlaw Queen heavy, I don't see Regina and Robin getting the Kai/Gerda story. What drama would then be left for them in 4B?

 

Maybe the 4B story is the Kai/Gerda story. They are just setting it up for the new half-season? Robin will turn out all evil (I think he is already) and only Regina will believe in him,. She will need to work all half-season to get him back. Meanwhile, that crappy Marian will drop him like yesterday's news after he stood by her during all that being Frozen stuff (which he really didn't do and she should drop him anyway just based on existing non-cursed actions).  So, not only does Robin really love Regina, she deserves to be loved. Ta-da! Happy ending she deserves without having to change one hair.

 

I expect evil Robin will behave much in thet same manner as Lacey - so all you Lacey fans will be very, very happy. Maybe he can go drinking with the Sheriff of Notingham if he's gotten his tongue back by then.

 

 

That will likely be the final nail in the coffin if they pull a 3B by building up Emma's story just to hand the biggest moment to Regina again.

 

It would be a repeat of 3A too where being a Lost Girl was supposed to be important, but Regina saved the day twice (getting back Henry's heart and stopping the curse). I have to give the writer's credit. They have the Three R's down to a science (Reduce everything down to plot (no time for people), Re-use plots every season (why write new stories - what part of Hook can we curse this season so he does the same as last season?) and Recycle everything (we can have so-and-so do exactly what that other person did last season - we'll call it parallels!).

[Mari]

But also, would they really give a big plot like that to Regina and Robin in the *same episode* where we get a a young Emma flashback, like we know we're getting in 410? 

Well, we had Regina complaining that she wasn't a villain and was miswritten in the same episode Emma was afraid to start a relationship because of Graham, and Snow was afraid to put down Nealflake--without any sense of the irony in that situation.  I don't think it's beneath A&E to shoehorn the beginnings of Regina/Robin drama in.  Especially since they've stated that Regina's story is the only one that spans the entire season. 

 

We may not be getting big scenes of her now, but whatever they've planned is only going to get bigger and bigger, and isn't 409 the official end of Frozen?  I can see them wanting to set up the 4B arc, in the hopes to snare in any Frozenites. 

[Emma]

http://katmtan.tumblr.com/post/100566047292/ouat-filming-flashback-scene-of-young-emma

 

 

OUAT Filming - Flashback scene of Young Emma?? (October 20, 2014)

[YaddaYadda]

Maybe the 4B story is the Kai/Gerda story. They are just setting it up for the new half-season? Robin will turn out all evil (I think he is already) and only Regina will believe in him,.

 

Well the only people who know Robin are Regina, ice sculpture Marian and the Merry Men (minus Will).  So really, this is going to be Regina's adventure all by herself.

 

Also, wasn't there something last week about Elsa being turned into an ice statue?  I'm totally with you on this one, Jean.  The shows have not been all disconnected this season which they actually were last season (or at least I thought).  If the shit hits the fan for Rumple in 409, I'm thinking he won't be going down alone.  There's the Hook connection plus whatever shady business he has going on with DQ (I guess no one cares for her name Sarah Fisher).

[KingOfHearts]

 

Maybe the 4B story is the Kai/Gerda story. They are just setting it up for the new half-season? Robin will turn out all evil (I think he is already) and only Regina will believe in him,.

Or it makes Regina go back into Evil Queen mode. I can dream, can't I? ;)

 

 

(I guess no one cares for her name Sarah Fisher)

Guess not... hopefully we get a real name.

Edited October 21, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[RadioGirl27]

The Kai/Gerda storyline made a lot of sense for Hook and Emma before they did the stupid "I'm going to blackmail Rumple for my hand in case Emma wants to have sex" storyline for Hook. Now, not so much. He is already keeping a secret from her, and he had just had his hand "cursed". It would be his third curse in a couple of weeks in show time.

So, even if I hate the "I'm not a villian, I'm only misunderstood/cursed" storylines, I just hope it's the DQ the one with the shaft in her eye. Because the Regina option is just disgusting.

Edited October 21, 2014 by RadioGirl27

[scenicbyway]

I guess we will have more of an idea with tomorrow's filming in Steveston, but I don't see reasons for jumping to conclusions just because of the picture of Regina there. They probably have pics of Regina all over the place in case they feel the sudden need to worship. But also, would they really give a big plot like that to Regina and Robin in the *same episode* where we get a a young Emma flashback, like we know we're getting in 410? 

Exactly.  I don't think Regina in the background corner is a clue that the Kai/Gerda story is about she and Robin.  Robin's not even getting enough air time if they are supposed to be the big story.  I do think something will have to come of Frozen Marian, I hope it's not that she thaws when the Snow Queen leaves. I do wonder if they've just put Marian on "ice" to stall the story a bit while the show focuses on Emma and Rumple.  There's been so much foreshadowing about Hook being put in peril, I have to think that's the direction they are going in.  They've also had him repeatedly say he'd do anything for Emma.  I could see him sacrificing himself for her.  I can't believe they'd really go the TLK route yet with them, but perhaps we'll see it in 4.11 since there was a failed TLK in 3.11. 

 

ETA:  I do think that Snow and Regina are purposefully being given less air time, but I think that could be actress driven.  Ginny gave birth at the end of May and was back on set at the beginning of July and Lana got married a few days before filming began.  Perhaps the showrunners are being nice in giving the leads lighter schedules in the face of major life changes.

Edited October 21, 2014 by scenicbyway

[Emma]

A little more about that scene last night.

https://mobile.twitter.com/SaraJallad/status/524639091573669889

the teen was a young Emma, Snow Queen was her guardian, trying to force her to use/discover powers.

She's back. :)

http://www.whosay.com/status/lanaparrilla/1012586?wsref=tw&code=Vdx9tie

Welcome back, Dear ... @BauervanStraten Looking forward to seeing my one and only friend ;-) ...

Edited October 21, 2014 by Emma

[Shanna Marie]

Oh, so does this mean that maybe Emma's memories of DQ were wiped like Elsa's memories of her?

[YaddaYadda]

I can't even begin to understand how Rumple fits in all of this or how DQ even retained her own magic.

[RadioGirl27]

I can't even begin to understand how Rumple fits in all of this or how DQ even retained her own magic.

Don't even try. It would give you a headache. The writers themselves don't do it. They just put on screen whatever crosses their minds, without thinking too much about it and they expect us to do the same.

 

Anyway, that photo of Lana and Kristin means Maleficent is back in episode 10, or it's an old photo? I love how Lana says Maleficent is her only friend, when the writers are trying to convince us that Emma and Regina are BFF, lol.

Edited October 21, 2014 by RadioGirl27

[Jean]

 

DQ even retained her own magic

She's inherently magical. That's the one thing they've sort of kept consistent. Her magic comes from herself, it doesn't need an outside source. The only thing I want is an explanation of why she hasn't aged and why she waited till now to make her move. It looks like she's been hanging out in LWM ever since she got here in the 80s.

 

 

I love how Lana says Maleficent is her only friend, when the writers are trying to convince us that Emma and Regina are BFF, lol

Let's be fair to A&E. They said the life ruiner has to prove herself first. She clearly hasn't done that. Maleficent on the other hand has been locked up by her friend for 30 years in some hell hole. Until Life Ruiner Emma lets herself be locked up for that long and used, then she ain't nobody's friend, just a life ruiner.

[KAOS Agent]

The unfortunate part of Young!Emma being taking advantage of by a magical person is that it makes the whole plan of Emma in the wardrobe even more upsetting. I know Snow going through with her was the plan, but wow did everyone involved in that plan really screw up. It doesn't seem all that difficult for people to get to the Land Without Magic - Emma managed to meet both the Snow Queen and Baelfire, two people from magical places, within the space of a few years. Her being alone, vulnerable and completely oblivious to her importance/magical abilities made her a huge target for creepy magic users. The Blue Fairy gets shadier every day. And Geppetto needs more than a slap.

 

I'm also kind of wondering if Disney didn't require A&E to remove Regina from the Frozen arc as much as possible. Elsa was a misunderstood woman who was not a villain, Regina was a villain with a messed up past and questionable motives who now claims to be misunderstood. No kid wants to see their beloved Queen Elsa equated with the Evil Queen.

[Souris]

Anyway, that photo of Lana and Kristin means Maleficent is back in episode 10, or it's an old photo? I love how Lana says Maleficent is her only friend, when the writers are trying to convince us that Emma and Regina are BFF, lol.

 

I believe it's an old photo.

[Mari]

 I love how Lana says Maleficent is her only friend, when the writers are trying to convince us that Emma and Regina are BFF, lol.

I always thought the wording in those interviews was telling--it's always stated that Emma considers Regina a friend and will have to prove herself.  I might not be remembering correctly, but I don't recall ever hearing that Regina was interested in being Emma's friend--not even in seasons 2 or 3. 

 

THis isn't meant as another slam about Regina; it's just an observation that the way they're writing the relationship, with Emma trying to be friendly and Regina being dismissive and/or ignoring her is pretty consistent throughout the series.

 

I can't decide if they don't realize that Regina has never been interested at all in being friends back, or if it's completely on purpose.

 

ETA:

 

“He definitely loves her and wants to be with her, but the hat existed long before she came along and will probably exist long after she’s gone,” muses Robert Carlyle. “This quest is so massive for him. This addiction is huge. [it] drives Rumplestiltskin more than love.”

 

 

That's interesting, Minneapple.  Am I reading too much into it by thinking they're acknowledging that as long as Rumple is the Dark One, Belle isn't his first priority--partially because she's a brief spot in his life?  He'll go on dark oneing, while she'll age and die?

Edited October 21, 2014 by Mari

[Minneapple]

Ask Ausiello:

 

Question: Any Once Upon a Time scoop about ‘Rumbelle’? —Serena

Ausiello: Sunday’s reveal that Rumple is after the Sorcerer’s hat and all the magic it contains certainly doesn’t bode well for the couple’s future. “He definitely loves her and wants to be with her, but the hat existed long before she came along and will probably exist long after she’s gone,” muses Robert Carlyle. “This quest is so massive for him. This addiction is huge. [it] drives Rumplestiltskin more than love.”

[stealinghome]

The unfortunate part of Young!Emma being taking advantage of by a magical person is that it makes the whole plan of Emma in the wardrobe even more upsetting. I know Snow going through with her was the plan, but wow did everyone involved in that plan really screw up. It doesn't seem all that difficult for people to get to the Land Without Magic - Emma managed to meet both the Snow Queen and Baelfire, two people from magical places, within the space of a few years. Her being alone, vulnerable and completely oblivious to her importance/magical abilities made her a huge target for creepy magic users. The Blue Fairy gets shadier every day. And Geppetto needs more than a slap.

Well, also, it makes the entire need for the plan in the first place totally nonsensical. Because if it was that easy to get to the Land Without Magic, Rumpel might actually be the show's dumbest character--by a whole, whole lot--for not getting to our world via one of the 34649749456 easier-than-the-curse ways to get there.

[YaddaYadda]

Yeah, I don't know if it's a bun in the oven for Belle or six feet under that's in her future. 

 

Regarding Emma and DQ, I'm guessing that Emma was fully aware of her magical abilities when she was under DQ's tutelage until whatever happened did happen and she wiped her memory or whatever it is she did to her.  Maybe Emma ran away from that home.  Sort of puts that comment about Emma's magic being stronger than DQ's into perspective (I think).

[scenicbyway]

The unfortunate part of Young!Emma being taking advantage of by a magical person is that it makes the whole plan of Emma in the wardrobe even more upsetting. I know Snow going through with her was the plan, but wow did everyone involved in that plan really screw up. It doesn't seem all that difficult for people to get to the Land Without Magic - Emma managed to meet both the Snow Queen and Baelfire, two people from magical places, within the space of a few years. Her being alone, vulnerable and completely oblivious to her importance/magical abilities made her a huge target for creepy magic users. The Blue Fairy gets shadier every day. And Geppetto needs more than a slap.

I'm also kind of wondering if Disney didn't require A&E to remove Regina from the Frozen arc as much as possible. Elsa was a misunderstood woman who was not a villain, Regina was a villain with a messed up past and questionable motives who now claims to be misunderstood. No kid wants to see their beloved Queen Elsa equated with the Evil Queen.

You might be on to something there. I could see TPTB not wanting the "Evil Queen" around Elsa. I'm sure the Frozen storyline has been tightly controlled.

[Souris]

Hook on set. Must you smoulder so, Colin?

 

Not sure what ep this is from, but he's clearly in the mystery honeymoon house.

 

Based on that Ausiello spoiler, Adam is about to get inundated by upset Rumbelle fans with Twitter pitchforks.

[Amerilla]

I'm sure Adam will get tweets, but it's not like there are a lot of Rumbellers who haven't already figured out which way the wind is blowing.

[Curio]

“He definitely loves her and wants to be with her, but the hat existed long before she came along and will probably exist long after she’s gone,” muses Robert Carlyle. “This quest is so massive for him. This addiction is huge. [it] drives Rumplestiltskin more than love.”

Based on that Ausiello spoiler, Adam is about to get inundated by upset Rumbelle fans with Twitter pitchforks.

 

I think this was said in another thread, but Belle isn't Rumple's True Love - magic is. I hope those people on Twitter don't harass Adam too much about that quote though, because it's the truth. Rumple will never give up his magic for Belle. 

 

Yeah, I don't know if it's a bun in the oven for Belle or six feet under that's in her future.

Or if Once wants to go the Cable TV route... both.

Edited October 22, 2014 by Curio

[Rumsy4]

"acknowledging that as long as Rumple is the Dark One, Belle isn't his first priority--partially because she's a brief spot in his life? He'll go on dark oneing, while she'll age and die?"

His son's recent death would be another stark reminder of other people's immortality. He'd rather remain an immortal and powerful magical being than lose his powers and live out a quiet life with Belle. Now that he has the chance to live forever without the problems of being under the control of the Dagger, he's obviously going to prioritize the quest to ensure it over anything else.

[Jean]

I love Robert's no bullshit, don't give a fuck zone.

[Minneapple]

Adam is about to get inundated by upset Rumbelle fans with Twitter pitchforks.

I hope they realize that it's Robert who's actually saying the spoiler. And...they do realize just how shady Rumple still is, right?

 

I don't know what happened with Rumple and Belle. I liked them in their Beauty and the Beast episode and actually shipped them. Now Belle irritates me to no end. I absolutely LOVE the speculation from someone in the episode thread, that she already knows the dagger is fake and is playing Gold. How awesome would that be? That would make me rediscover my love for Belle.

[Joenigma]

 

 

I can't even begin to understand how Rumple fits in all of this or how DQ even retained her own magic.

Don't even try. It would give you a headache. The writers themselves don't do it. They just put on screen whatever crosses their minds, without thinking too much about it and they expect us to do the same.

 

Actually it's not that hard to wrap yur head around it. Rumple needed Emma to break the curse so he can find his son. What if Rumple enlisted the DQ to find and raise Emma, and teaching her magic. In other words, DQ arrived with everyone else in the first curse but was able to leave the town and went off to find and raise Emma. Emma on the other hand probably didn't like DQ and ran away.

[Dianthus]

@Minneapple: from your lips (well, keyboard) to A & E's ears. It's the only thing that could salvage this storyline for me. If Belle realized Rumple's gone off the wagon then turned to Hook and Emma for help, I could almost forgive the stupid. I was really looking forward to the Hot Date, but the stupid nearly ruined it for me. Who knows when we'll finally get another?

[Souris]

Two pics of Once filming setup today with an old phone booth. I think that looks like the actress playing Lily in the first shot, but that's just an opinion, not a real spoiler.

Edited October 22, 2014 by Souris

[KAOS Agent]

 

What if Rumple enlisted the DQ to find and raise Emma, and teaching her magic. In other words, DQ arrived with everyone else in the first curse but was able to leave the town and went off to find and raise Emma. Emma on the other hand probably didn't like DQ and ran away.

 

Nope. Doesn't track. Rumpel didn't know Emma had magic until she told him. Also, we know that the Snow Queen didn't arrive with the first curse because she wasn't in the census records and Regina would have had to make it so that she retained her memories and ability to leave town. Regina wouldn't have done that for any reason - even Rumpel didn't get to keep his memories. And if Rumpel could have arranged for anyone to retain their memories and leave town, it would have been himself. He wouldn't have needed to rely on a newborn to get him out of his cursed state. Plus, spoiler pics imply that the Snow Queen came via a door of some kind.  

[KingOfHearts]

She wasn't in the census records because she had no curse personality. She could have been transported with the curse, then used to make sure Emma is safe and ready to believe for the curse breaking. DQ could have discovered Emma's magic later and decided to teach her how to use it.

The door portal may have had to do with the curse, or it could have been a separate portal that Rumple couldn't use.

Edited October 22, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[RadioGirl27]

Any option is bad in my book. It's A&E telling us "Remember the three previous season? Well, forget about them. We have a cool new idea to explain everything. But don't get to attached to it because next season we would come up with something more shiny".

About why Regina is so disconnected from the Frozen storyline, I'm sure it's a Disney thing. No way A&E would do it on their own. I'm pretty sure their original plan was to parallel Elsa with Regina (the way they talked about Elsa in the after season 3 interviews pretty much confirms it).

Edited October 22, 2014 by RadioGirl27

[l star]

I think it probably is about not paralleling a traditional villain with their misunderstood cash cow but I think it was probably also about not mixing the stories. As much as possible, the Frozen characters have been kept very separate from the other Disney princess characters. I think that is very intentional. Elsa and Anna are officially Disney princesses already but they aren't marketed that way at all yet, unlike Snow White, Belle, Ariel and Tinkerbell. The Frozen characters are still tied very closely together within the movie marketing machine.

I think that is the reason behind not only Regina being sidelined but also Snow and Belle in favor of Emma, Hook, David, and Mr. Gold. We also haven't seen any Aurora, Cinderella, Ariel, or Mulan. Some of that could easily be for cast reasons but sidelining or skipping all of them plus not giving any of them flashbacks smells to me. And on a show that is all about mixing fairy tales, it annoys me (that could still be holdover from my rage at the choice to delete that Snow/Regina scene though).

I agree that the interviews show plans changed. I think there were also hints in the premiere too when Elsa's fear caused her to freeze everything and Regina's anger broke a mirror and almost prompted her to fireball Marion. I don't really object to them having Emma lose control of her magic as the parallel instead but I do wish there was more background for it. Honestly Emma and Elsa have enough natural parallels without that being thrown in.

Rumple once again throwing it all away for power has potential except he's already done that. I tire of him being the smartest, most powerful person who is really pulling the strings behind every plot. I think that is why I hate the idea of him being really involved with the Snow Queen coming to Storybrooke. If Rumple was pulling strings for all of this, he epically fucked up as far as I'm concerned. I very much prefer the idea that he manipulated Regina into casting the curse but DQ had no part in it.

Anna should be at least five or six years younger than Emma. That would put Elsa at a few years younger. What if DQ and her sisters had a falling out after Elsa was born because she had inherited DQ's powers. If she tried to bond with or teach Elsa, that would have freaked out the king and queen who were already afraid of the powers. So they drove her out of Arendelle. She goes to the Enchanted Kingdom which apparently has all the answers and finds out another possibly magical baby was sent away alone. She tracks Emma down to protect her because magical people have to band together. Something goes wrong, she heads back to Arendelle, and gets urned by her sisters for coming back near Elsa.

Edited October 22, 2014 by l star

[Serena]

Nope. Doesn't track. Rumpel didn't know Emma had magic until she told him. Also, we know that the Snow Queen didn't arrive with the first curse because she wasn't in the census records and Regina would have had to make it so that she retained her memories and ability to leave town. Regina wouldn't have done that for any reason - even Rumpel didn't get to keep his memories. And if Rumpel could have arranged for anyone to retain their memories and leave town, it would have been himself. He wouldn't have needed to rely on a newborn to get him out of his cursed state. Plus, spoiler pics imply that the Snow Queen came via a door of some kind.  

The DQ likely arrived with the fancy door we saw in the filming for 407. Found Emma, took her in. Her original "mission" from Rumple was just to make sure she broke the curse, but when she found out Emma was innately magical - one of the only people, other than her and Elsa, that was - the DQ started to get emotionally attached. Something then screwed it up, and they lost contact.

[Jean]

I don't want the DQ to be Rumpel's lackey. Her refusing to make a deal with Rumple automatically makes her smarter than 99.99% of all the Once characters.

My other thought is all those Han's Snow Queen associated episode titles are teen Emma flashbacks right? And she gets a friend to go along with it. That to me means the traditional Snow Queen tale is being told in teen Emma. As in teen Emma and her buddy are "Gerda/Kai" with some sort of twist. They can't add a twist to Frozen so it has to be done here. The casting call made Lily sound like a fake friend however. My guess is teen Emma is "Kai." The relationship that is broken up is hers and DQ's. She forgot the DQ and is now hunting her. That's the twist. I just don't the hows yet. Doesn't seem like Lily is a magical being. Might be Emma's own magic or DQ's magic that did them in.

[FurryFury]

Anna should be at least five or six years younger than Emma. That would put Elsa at a few years younger.

 

Er, Elsa's the eldest, actually. And I think she's supposed to be somewhere around 23, give or take a few years.

 

I don't really mind Rumple as the grand manipulator, but I wish the show would stop trying to have their cake and eat it, because he's either that or a former villain redeemed by love. He could have some missteps in his redemption, but that's Regina's season 2 turn all over again, and I have no wish to see that trainwreck once more.

 

I wonder if A&E will handwave the whole "DQ in our world" thing by saying that only inherently magical people could pass through the worlds by using the door Rumple discovered.

 

My other thought is all those Han's Snow Queen associated episode titles are teen Emma flashbacks right? And she gets a friend to go along with it. That to me means the traditional Snow Queen tale is being told in teen Emma. As in teen Emma and her buddy are "Gerda/Kai" with some sort of twist. They can't add a twist to Frozen so it has to be done here. The casting call made Lily sound like a fake friend however. My guess is teen Emma is "Kai." The relationship that is broken up is hers and DQ's. She forgot the DQ and is now hunting her. That's the twist. I just don't the hows yet. Doesn't seem like Lily is a magical being. Might be Emma's own magic or DQ's magic that did them in.

 

I'd take your theory over the "any of the established couples as Kai/Gerda" I've seen floating around here.

Edited October 22, 2014 by FurryFury

[myril]

Anna should be at least five or six years younger than Emma. That would put Elsa at a few years younger. What if DQ and her sisters had a falling out after Elsa was born because she had inherited DQ's powers. If she tried to bond with or teach Elsa, that would have freaked out the king and queen who were already afraid of the powers. So they drove her out of Arendelle. She goes to the Enchanted Kingdom which apparently has all the answers and finds out another possibly magical baby was sent away alone. She tracks Emma down to protect her because magical people have to band together. Something goes wrong, she heads back to Arendelle, and gets urned by her sisters for coming back near Elsa.

 

Not possible. Anna met David before he even crossed ways with Snow, a couple of years before Emma was born and Regina enacted the Dark Curse. 

 

Er, Elsa's the eldest, actually. And I think she's supposed to be somewhere around 23, give or take a few years.

 

 

From what I remember from spoilers about casting call she's meant to be around the age of Emma, late 20s, early 30s - quite different from the movie, but it made sense to me seeing the age, or seemingly age of the lead characters of the show.

Edited October 22, 2014 by katusch

[FurryFury]

I dunno, she just feels... younger. No older than 25. I don't know the actress' age, but that's what she's projecting, at least for me.

[KAOS Agent]

I've not seen Frozen so I'm not entirely clear on how that ended but it seems like the flashback stuff supposedly happened a few years after the movie because I think they mentioned Anna & Kristoff have been together for a couple years at least. So Elsa would be in her late 20s then?

 

 

I don't want the DQ to be Rumpel's lackey. Her refusing to make a deal with Rumple automatically makes her smarter than 99.99% of all the Once characters.

 

This whole thing about the Snow Queen coming to our world free from the curse already makes Rumpel look like the dumbest Dark One ever. I mean now we have hats, beans, doors, silver slippers, shadows, magic wardrobes. What the hell was he doing for 300 years? If he made a deal with her to look after Emma knowing she had some way other than the curse to get here, I think I might be done with this show. So what only the icy hearted can pass through the door? Just no.

[queenbee]

In the Disney movie, Elsa was 21 years old at the time of the main story events, and Anna was 18 years old. Their parents died three years previous, when they were 18 years old and 15 years old respectively. Episode 1 picked up with Anna and Elsa at their parents' graves five years after they died. This makes them 23 years old and 20 years old. If they are sticking to the movie, that is, which they probably are. Georgina Haig is 29 years old, but I'm  assuming that this is a case of 'Dawson casting ' (the casting of actors a number of years older than the characters they are playing -- occurring in just about every movie and TV show in existence). The majority of the cast is the same. Jennifer Morrison is about 34 years old playing 30 year old Emma. Ginnifer Goodwin is even older playing Snow who is supposed to be about Emma's age. Ditto for Josh Dallas. Emilie de Ravin in 31 but I'm quite sure that Belle is only supposed to be in her 20s.

Edited October 22, 2014 by queenbee

[ShadowFacts]

 

This whole thing about the Snow Queen coming to our world free from the curse already makes Rumpel look like the dumbest Dark One ever. I mean now we have hats, beans, doors, silver slippers, shadows, magic wardrobes. What the hell was he doing for 300 years? If he made a deal with her to look after Emma knowing she had some way other than the curse to get here, I think I might be done with this show. So what only the icy hearted can pass through the door? Just no.

 

For sure.  It cheapens everything about Rumpel's grand life's quest, and makes him look stupid.  I will say the same about any notion of Emma having been involved with Snow Queen, and then forgetting/being given a memory potion.  Why not just sell that stuff by the gallon at Granny's take-out counter?  Cheap and stupid.

[YaddaYadda]

You know, we've sort of been discussing how Rumple can't live without his magic, his power and such.  The first thing he does after the curse is broken is to bring magic back to Storybrooke.  So if DQ has innate magic (which is exactly what it seems like) and she retains it in the Land without Magic, doesn't it sort of stand to reason that once again, Rumple put his power ahead of his son once more and would rather have spent 28 years in stasis, then come into our world without his magical powers?

 

He does have a freak out in the airport bathroom because he doesn't have his magic and he had Emma who knows how to navigate this world.

[kili]

Rumple put his power ahead of his son once more and would rather have spent 28 years in stasis, then come into our world without his magical powers?

 

Yes, it is all about his power. He needed a complicated way to get to The World Without Magic because he needed to bring his magic with him. The Snow Queen's door would not work for him unless he was willing to go without it. That was the entire point of Bae wanting to go to the Land Without Magic - to take away the corrupting force of Rumple's magic without killing him. Rumple wanted his cake and to eat it to. He lost his son, so now he is clinging even more fiercely to his magic. Hook is being a dumba$$, but he was correct to figure out that Rumple would not give up his dagger to even the one he loved.

[sharky]

But do we know if Rumple knew about the door ahead of the curse? Regina warned everyone that a curse was coming so I could totally see the Snow Queen hearing about it and having a way out that she didn't want to reveal to anyone else. And of course, Rumple proved with Anna that he knows things you hide from him. So just like he knew Anna's name, perhaps he has a way to know who the Snow Queen was and what she did in this world without actually being a part of the plan or know what she was doing.

[kili]

But do we know if Rumple knew about the door ahead of the curse? Regina warned everyone that a curse was coming so I could totally see the Snow Queen hearing about it and having a way out that she didn't want to reveal to anyone else.

 

 

She just needed to go to outside of the curse's range. Apparently, Arendelle was beyond that range. She didn't need to use the door to come to the Land without Magic unless she wanted to.