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Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!


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They were already retconning Lancelot's fate in the interviews post-episode, that "he's dead" is just Matt Mitovich editorializing. He's already changed it to add "supposedly", as well as changing "African American" to "black Brit".

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And once more we'll have a cast of thousands sucking up screentime from the regular characters. Fans have been complaining about that for ages, they say they will focus on "core characters" -- and we get tons more "heavily recurring" characters. Sigh. They never learn.

 

I'm thinking Emma stays in Storybrooke w/ Regina (gag!) while Hook & the Charmings go to Camelot to find Merlin.

 

LOL, I've seen people on Twitter calling for Morgan Freeman or Idris Elba to be cast. Yeah, I think they're a LITTLE too expensive/in-demand/high-profile for a Once gig.

Edited by Souris
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It's only three characters, and I don't know how they would adequately tell the Camelot story without them. As far as Lancelot is concerned, if the actor is not available there's not much they can do. That's just the way it goes in the business. If they don't have long-term plans for the character like they did for Robin Hood there is no point in recasting the role.

 

The format they have settled on for the show is well-known by now. They have a specific theme or venue such a Frozen or Neverland that includes the canon characters that go with it and that is the focus of the half season. This formula has been successful so it makes sense to stick with it. Some of the regular characters are not that interesting on their own and need the extra help of fresh characters to carry their story lines.

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Arthur sounds like Rumple, and Guinevere, Regina. Rumple is de-powered and in stasis. Regina is on her "good" phase now. I guess Arthur/Guinevere will take over their roles (with a twist) for this season. It might be interesting without the unfair advantage magic always gave Rumple and Regina. I think this storyline might extend all though S5.

Edited by Rumsy4
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How much money will you bet on Regina/Guinevere parallels?

 

First, yay for spoilers!

 

Regina / Guinevere - Is it bad that my first thought was 'oh good, they need to make sure Emma has a Regina stand in to interact with in Camelot so the SQ'ers can use her as an example of how Regina / Emma love transcends realms!'

 

Arthur description is interesting.  For some reason I've been thinking of BSG lately - maybe James Callis?  Probably too weasly. I saw some Ioan Gruffudd suggestions - that would be fun.

Edited by Selina K
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As someone who really hates Gwen and didn't want her to come on the show...well, so yeah!  I was hoping against all hope.  I was hoping for Morgan instead.

 

I thought for sure they were going to get Terri O'Quinn to be their Merlin.  I'm impressed they resisted that particular urge (though I can totally see him as Hook's father).

 

They make it sound like Arthur is a bit of a nutter.  I guess I'll have to wait and see how all of this goes.

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Yay! Some legitimate spoilers!

 

With all of this emphasis on wanting "natural British accents," is it too much to hope for our already British-sounding cast members (i.e. Hook, Will, Robin, Rumple...) to actually have ties to Camelot's inevitable time-stealing flashbacks? No? Or will the writers still figure out a way to squeeze in Regina vs. Snow into that world, too?

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Or will the writers still figure out a way to squeeze in Regina vs. Snow into that world, too?

 

Of course they will!  Nothing like a tired, can't suck anymore out of it formula to get everyone's sarcastic juices going.

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I know he doesn't have a real British accent, but after Orlando Jones got cut from Sleepy Hollow, I've been thinking he would make a perfect Merlin. C'mon, that needs to happen!

 

And yes to too many characters. I guess we should be thankful that they're at least royal so flashbacks with Snowing or Regina won't be too far fetched. Plus, we know that Snow at least knew Lancelot in the past. Some of the Frozen flashbacks just seemed like a real stretch. Here's hoping there's no Farming Charming or Bo Peep nonsense again.

Edited by sharky
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So we have nine regulars, Sean and Rebeca as semi regulars (at least until they are upgraded), Lily seems to be sticking around and now this three new "heavily recurring" characters. I guess I can forget about some Hook backstory, or more that a minute of Hook in general.

 

I'm thinking Emma stays in Storybrooke w/ Regina (gag!) while Hook & the Charmings go to Camelot to find Merlin.


I think Emma is in Camelot with Regina, I mean, Guinevere, while the rest try to find her.
 

LOL, I've seen people on Twitter calling for Morgan Freeman or Idris Elba to be cast. Yeah, I think they're a LITTLE too expensive/in-demand/high-profile for a Once gig.


If they get Idris Elba I would forgive them almost everything. Well, actually no, but Idris Elba..........

Edited by RadioGirl27
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It would be great if the writers allowed these new recurring characters to support the main cast, and not the other way around this season. Instead of inserting our main characters into stories they don't feel like they belong in, let's utilize past story details that have been hinted at as canon and use Camelot as the setting. Just some examples I can think of off the top of my head:

 

  • An episode about Rumple's quest to get the magical Camelot gauntlet that we never heard about again.
  • An episode about Hook retrieving the magical bean from someone in Camelot after he outran the curse.
  • Or an episode about young Lt. Jones on a mission to get something from Camelot.
  • An episode that gives us insight into Will's sister's death—maybe she died on a lake in Camelot during a winter storm.
  • An episode that explains how Merlin once stole Robin's personality. (I kid, I kid...kind of.)

 

If the writers go with their usual scheduling, we'll have 11 episodes during the fall story arc. Three of those episodes will inevitably focus on our new Camelot friends, one will be a Regina-centric, one will be something about the search for Lily's dad, one will be an episode about the stupid Zelena pregnancy, and then probably a centric about Rumple. So that's 7 episodes already, with 4 episodes left to focus on Emma and her Dark One journey. (I'm already preparing myself for another rushed "Heroes and Villains" finale.)

Edited by Curio
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Well, I saw First Knight so I've always assumed there was a big age difference between the two. And if you look at the original info on the musical from the '60s, Julie Andrews was a decade younger than Richard Burton when they did the musical, same with Richard Harris and Vanessa Redgrave in the movie version. And it sounds like some of the historic tellings of Camelot have that age difference in them as well. So it sounds like they're potential sticking to the May-Septemberish romance.

Edited by sharky
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I know he doesn't have a real British accent, but after Orlando Jones got cut from Sleepy Hollow, I've been thinking he would make a perfect Merlin. C'mon, that needs to happen!

.

I thought about him, too.

Adding to the list of people that aren't quite the official description, but would be good--I'd like to resubmit for consideration Lance Reddick.

I know Once couldn't afford him, but Chiwetel Ejiofor would be perfect. (And not just because I might have the teensiest crush on him.)

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Goddamnit.

 

Well, here's a table flipping emoji if anyone needs to use it: (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

 

Edit: I'm actually okay with Robin being bumped up to a regular since he was basically an unofficial regular last season, but I despise Zelena with the passion of a thousand burning suns. I have a feeling we're going to be stuck with this pregnancy storyline for a long time, folks.

 

Edit #2: I'm assuming they probably had to dip into some of the "Emma's Apartment Fund" to afford this...

Edited by Curio
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Well, on the bright side, maybe this means Regina will be off with them in her own subplot, and the Charmings + Hook can deal with Dark Emma. On the other hand, it also means they're probably giving Zelena a redemption arc which, no thanks.

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On the other hand, it also means they're probably giving Zelena a redemption arc which, no thanks.

I'm not sure Zelena needs a redemption arc, so much as a sanity restoring arc.

So, with 11 regulars, 3 major guest stars, and 43 minutes an episode, how much time are we looking at actually spending on the cast and the actual story? If you think everyone will get equal time, you're looking at 14 people, divided by 2, divided into 43 minutes? That's 6.14 minutes/character/episode.

More realistically, some regulars might as well be glorified extras for the screen and story time they see.

ETA

So, now I want to know if Zelena and Robin got far more positive feedback somewhere, or are they deliberately trying to annoy viewers en masse? Because I can't remember any group that seemed pleased with Zelena's return, and the response in most places to Robin has been . . . less than enthusiastic.

Edited by Mari
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On the other hand, it also means they're probably giving Zelena a redemption arc which, no thanks.

 

It's really the only reason why she's been brought back, otherwise she would've stayed 'dead' back in S3.

 

 

More realistically, some regulars might as well be glorified extras for the screen and story time they see.

 

Will already is and some of the regulars have had less screen time already.

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More realistically, some regulars might as well be glorified extras for the screen and story time they see.

 

So, basically Will, Belle, and Hook in 4B.

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Robin, I understand. Zelena not so much. She's in the basement. She's overacting. I know they're stuck right now because you can't off a pregnant lady but geez. Series regular? Yea, here's hoping she's as regular as Will was this past season.

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I guess we're stuck with this rape baby storyline and OQ drama for the rest of the series. I can't think of anything less interesting. I didn't realize A&E loved Zelena so much. How long will it be before she manages to lose the anti-magic bracelet and wreak havoc in Storybrooke? 

 

I think Will may die in S5. They literally have no story for him, and I can't imagine him fitting into the Camelot arc. Belle dumped him. So, there's really no reason for him to be on-screen even for his half a minute appearances. 

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I actually don't mind Zelena all that much as a character, and I love the actress and what she does with the role. It's just the writing around her that's so bad. Not looking forward to her and Robin being regulars in the icky rape baby drama. Can we spin them and Regina off into a fairy tale Three's Company ripoff?

 

I don't think casting three major guest characters for an arc is necessarily a bad thing, depending on how they're used and integrated.

 

A lot of the problem is that I don't think these writers are very good at writing for an ensemble. There's too much focus on "centric" rather than keeping in mind that they have a whole group of people. Team episodes would be lovely.

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I understand the annoyance about Zelena ( Robin was a regular in everything but the actor's contract) but not so much Merlin et al. If they're going to have a story outside of Storybrooke, guest stars are pretty much a necessity. Hell, Felix was in 10 episodes of 3A.

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The lack of Morgana casting fuels the Emma = Morgana theory.

 

I would actually kind of love that. (I just want to see more of Emma learning new magical stuff. She's good with using her natural magical instincts, but she still needs to learn a lot more about casting spells and making potions.)

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Maybe a couple of regulars will be bumped down to recurring status. My guess is Emilie de Ravin and Ginnifer Goodwin. Belle's function as a character is to support Rumple's character development and story line when needed. Rumple will probably go off to Camelot so she won't be needed at all. They dropped Emilie from the cast for the entire season 5 of Lost and just brought her back for the final series wrap-up episodes. I can see that happening again. Michael Socha will probably die a heroic death in the mid-season finale.

 

Ginny openly talks about wanting another baby as soon as possible in interviews. Their little boy is a year old now so they may be actively trying again. In that case she may be happy to retire from acting to be a full-time mother. Snow's story is pretty much done, anyway, and she was already a supporting character in season 4 so it isn't a big stretch to send her to Offscreenville. She can open a daycare there with Belle.

 

I find Zelena a highly entertaining villian. She is so over-the-top crazy and Rebecca Mader and Robert Carlyle have great chemistry together.

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...did ANYONE want this?

Well, I've seen a lot of excitement in Tumblr, but it's from the same people who loves absolutely everything from the show. They are really frustrating, with all the "everything from the show is perfect and if you complaint about something you are an idiot and should stop watching", but that's a matter for another thread.

 

Anyway, I think this season is going to be like season 4: 5A would center around Emma with the Camelot gang in the shoes of the Frozen gang, and 5B would focus on Regina, with the Outlaw Queen and rape baby drama front and center.

 

I understand the annoyance about Zelena ( Robin was a regular in everything but the actor's contract) but not so much Merlin et al. If they're going to have a story outside of Storybrooke, guest stars are pretty much a necessity. Hell, Felix was in 10 episodes of 3A.

The problem I have with Merlin et al. is that this show doesn't know how to use this kind of recurring characters, so in the end everything would be about them, with them eating the biggest part of the screentime while the regulars are reduced to supporting them (if they are lucky) or to pretty but simple background.

Edited by RadioGirl27
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I'm surprised that Bex was bumped up to regular; she'd be better as a reoccurring/guest star. I'm happy for Sean, even though Robin's not my fave. What does this mean for Socha though? Still a regular? I wish A&E would course correct (like they did with Science!Team Rocket), and just have someone stumble upon a magic mirror and send Will home. They can just say one of the magic Oz tornadoes sucked him outta Wonderland and into Storybrooke somehow. And now I'm wondering if Will's story will once again be pushed back, unless if they somehow tie it together with Camelot. Maybe Ana got kidnapped and they find her trapped in a dungeon/bottle/urn or something.

I was hoping we wouldn't have as many people, but boy, it's gonna be cram packed again. We got Lily to deal with too (and Mal??? Although I'm sure she'll just get forgotten about).

Edited by HoodlumSheep
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Maybe Ana got kidnapped and they find her trapped in a dungeon/bottle/urn or something.

 

I would love an Emma/Ana magical blonde team-up in Camelot as they work together to get back to their loved ones. And Emma desperately needs some friends who aren't her parents/her boyfriend/her son/her step-grandmother.

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I understand the annoyance about Zelena ( Robin was a regular in everything but the actor's contract) but not so much Merlin et al. If they're going to have a story outside of Storybrooke, guest stars are pretty much a necessity. Hell, Felix was in 10 episodes of 3A.

 

I think the difference between Felix is that he was Pan's sidekick (albeit an important one) but he did not eat screentime nor did he require a back story.  He was just there, delivered his lines and then he was just gone.  Arthur, Gwen will be getting their own episodes for one.  Lancelot will be brought back for those because they really just have to.  Can't do the reason Arthur and Gwen fell apart without Lancelot being there.  

 

I can't stand Robin and I'm thinking Zelena being made a regular is to make sure they have the actress on hand when they need her.  I don't think she'll be getting a ton more screentime, I think they just wanna make sure that she is available.  Her first obligation will be to Once.

 

I don't think they should split the season in two as in have two separate arcs.  I think it should be a season long arc and ending 511 with a cliffhanger and then come back for the remaining 12 episodes after the winter hiatus, I think it would be better as a whole.

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I enjoy Zelena and her actress. I agree with others that it's the writing taking its toll with her. I love that she's returned to the show, but the pregnancy plot was such an awful way to do it. I'm not sure what they'll be doing with her since she's stuck in an asylum.

I'll pick her over Robin, Will or Belle any day.

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Has it actually been confirmed that Michael Socha is a regular for Season 5?  Sean Maguire makes sense, he should've been a regular last season (even though, I don't think he's that great an actor).  To me, Rebecca Mader makes no sense.  We're forever stuck with Zelena poking Regina with a toothpick constantly?  Doesn't Regina have enough foils?  I don't understand having 3 regulars on the budget that you never use--Will, Belle & Zelena, but refuse to let Emma have a home of her own after 5 seasons.

Edited by scenicbyway
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You know, one thing I think we're forgetting is that Emma is likely in Camelot. So perhaps instead of flashbacks, we'll get flash sideways? Like a Storybrooke/Camelto season or something. And that also means it makes it easier to integrate them in the show. Again, with Frozen you could tell how it was just stuffed in there with contrived flashbacks. At least Emma will be interacting with the Camelot crew so that even though they may be in 10 episodes, they won't necessarily be the focus in 10 flashbacks.

 

ETA: I still think the "budget for Emma's apartment" was more of a flippant line than the truth with the knowledge that Emma would be llving with her pirate at some point in the future. Seriously, if that woman doesn't move onto the Jolly with Hook this season, heads will roll.

Edited by sharky
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I still think the "budget for Emma's apartment" was more of a flippant line than the truth with the knowledge that Emma would be llving with her pirate at some point in the future. Seriously, if that woman doesn't move onto the Jolly with Hook this season, heads will roll.

 

I love the JR as much as the next person (who loves Hook that is), but there's no plumbing on that ship.  No showers, no bath, no bathroom.  Emma grew up in the real world where she is used to these accommodations.  Can't they just have that place by the water Henry was looking at in season 3?

 

Has is actually been confirmed that Michael Socha is a regular for Season 5?

We're all assuming he is.  

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Has is actually been confirmed that Michael Socha is a regular for Season 5?  

 

Hmm.... I seem to remember Socha was only signed on for one year. If that is true, this is the time for A&E to course correct and write him of the show (after pointlessly wrecking Scarlet Queen). 

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Seeing some backlash on Zelena's return but praise for Robin's on the social medias. It's only because Zelena is a thorn in Regina's happy ending and Robin is the true love. There's so much bias in favor of Regina it's kind of funny. Zelena got lots of positive reception before the pregnancy. Meanwhile Robin is still an overrated slice of bland toast.

Edited by KingOfHearts
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Not really sure how I'm feeling about the Bex upgrade. I suppose it will center around Regina and the soap drama maybe Regina will mostly be dealing with them and let the Charming and Hook mostly be the one The Emma arc will be about.

Because let's be real Regina cannot surely not be solving the baby's drama and be in Camelot searching for Merlin with Emma and the gang. That's what I'm praying for until new spoiler arrives to crush my hope I can just ff the soap scene and look at the Emma, Hook, the Charming in Camelot.

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Has is actually been confirmed that Michael Socha is a regular for Season 5?

 

We assume so unless he's downgraded and written out next season, he felt like a placeholder for Robin.

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I hate Zelena, so I hate Bex is now a regular. Sean was kind of a foregone conclusion. Mostly I just hate that between the new regulars and three "heavily recurring" guest stars, there ARE SO DAMN MANY ACTORS sucking up screentime.

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I like the idea of Robin Hood, as a character, being on this show. But as with so many things, the execution doesn't work. Really, before all the silly pixie dust soulmate stuff, if you were imagining what storybook character would be interesting paired with Regina, would you ever in a million years think of Robin Hood? Or if you were thinking of a role for Robin Hood to play, would it be Regina's destined lover? I suppose it has the element of surprise, but the surprise has to make sense. It needs to be "I never would have thought of that, but wow, it works!" They'd need to convince us that a thief who robs from the rich to feed the poor and stands up against unjust rulers would have any interest in Regina -- an unjust ruler who slaughters the poor. If they're going to put those two together, there's so much inherent conflict that all this baby mama drama is unnecessary. I suppose they could make Robin interesting if he got to do something other than pine over Regina and became something other than her bonus prize and fashion accessory, but there's still no way to backtrack and deal with all the inherent issues, like the fact that he's supposedly opposed to everything she stands for or the fact that she imprisoned Marian, and that's the reason he lost her, since none of that has mattered to him so far, and the fact that none of this has mattered to him so far makes him, to me, some guy named Robin Hood, not the Robin Hood, and I can't make myself like him, even if they give him fun plots apart from Regina next season.

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Maybe we'll get lucky and next season won't be split 50/50, so all of the new regulars and recurring characters they're announcing now will be the only big casting news for the rest of Season 5.

 

I suppose they could make Robin interesting if he got to do something other than pine over Regina

Don't you mean pinecone over Regina? Eh? (Sorry, I'll show myself out...)

Edited by Curio
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Don't you mean pinecone over Regina? Eh? (Sorry, I'll show myself out...)

I hereby sentence you to watch all the Robin and Regina scenes from season 4 on a never-ending loop.

 

This show may drive me to finally break down and get a DVR from my cable company, since OnDemand won't let you fast forward. If they neatly segregate all the Regina, Zelena, and Robin stuff to its own story, that will make watching so much more pleasant.

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I hereby sentence you to watch all the Robin and Regina scenes from season 4 on a never-ending loop.

No! Anything but that!

 

I like the idea of Robin Hood, as a character, being on this show. But as with so many things, the execution doesn't work.

You know, maybe all Robin Hood needs is a little screen time alone with Hook for a couple episodes to bring his character back around. (And conveniently avoid the pregnancy drama.) I started to like Belle a bit more when they paired her up with Hook during the start of 4B, so that combined with Colin's knack for bringing out the best performances in the actors and his real life friendship with Sean could potentially save Robin's character for me. Because if you just think about those two iconic characters on their own, the idea of watching a TV show with Robin Hood having a friendship with Captain Hook sounds like it would be a blast. But with TS;TW... 

Edited by Curio
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The difference in casting ages between Arthur and Gwen really rubs me the wrong way. "Mid 30s to early 40s" for him and "Mid 20s to Mid 30s" for her.

 

I'm wondering what super-contrived reason they are going to come up with for Arthur and Gwen to be that young. First, we have people in Storybrooke - okay - that's the premise. Then we have tthe Coradome to keep Robin, Hook, Mulan and Phillip from aging (Aurora was sleep-cursed).  Then, we get Anna and Kristoff frozen to keep them in statis (Elsa is put in an urn). Then, Ursula and Cruella got their hands on some egg shells (better than botox- why didn't those ladies figure out how to package that shell - they could have been bazillionares selling their "Age Defying Cream").  Zelena presumaby prevented herself from aging, Mermaids age slowly (?)  and Blackbeard has some other trick up his sleave. What kept the jolly folks around the round table the same age?

 

Or did a 2 year old Gwen marry a twelve year old Arthur and then cheat on him with a 30 year old Lancelot?

 

I suppose Merlin cast his own version of the Coradome around Camelot.  There was a cascading series of events in all the known realms that obliterated the 30 years for everybody but Neal, Pinocchio, Emma and Lily. Why can't Arthur and Gwen be in their 50s/60s and show that time has moved on for some?

 

Zelena's pregnancy is going to be never-ending, isn't it? Or are we going to jump ahead a year so that Henry is a more reasonable age and we can skip over the pregnancy (given each half-season is a week, she shouldn't otherwise give birth until Season 23).  Of course, nothing will have been done to retrieve Emma in that year so that we don't miss any of that - and then suddenly, after a year of doing nothing, they will resolve the entire issue from start to finish in 2 weeks.

 

Why doesn't Gwen have to have a British accent?

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