Spoilers and Spoiler Discussion

[Starry]

12 hours ago, Trini said:

Is it really that much more simple, though?  Also, Barry doesn't seem like he would name his kid after himself.

I don't know why they can't just let the Tornado Twins exist on this show.

Despite those annoyances, I'm excited to see another West-Allen family member on the show!

I think they like Bart but aren't interested in the Tornado Twins. If Bart gets changed into Barry and Iris' son they won't have to deal with a few characters they don't care about.

[shantown]

8 hours ago, Trini said:

with technically all four of them, three of which were new to our show

Ohhhh yuck, they're going to make a Wells one of the forces, aren't they?

[Trini]

On 3/31/2021 at 10:45 AM, shantown said:

Ohhhh yuck, they're going to make a Wells one of the forces, aren't they?

I'm pretty sure the Speed Force is one of the four, so the other three should be new.

 

On 3/31/2021 at 5:58 AM, Starry said:

I think they like Bart but aren't interested in the Tornado Twins. If Bart gets changed into Barry and Iris' son they won't have to deal with a few characters they don't care about.

Yeah, that much is obvious! But with Bart as their grandson they still don't have to deal with anyone they don't want to; the Twins can be offscreen somewhere just like so many other characters.

Plus, besides the fact that making Bart their son instead of grandson feels like a retread of Nora, it makes Barry & Iris' speedster family and legacy smaller in a way. It's not a hill I need to die on, but it's something that I think didn't need to be changed.

Anyway, I hope they are able to make Bart's story different than Nora's, and that they have more characters/plots/episodes set in the future because I wanted more of that with Nora.

Edited April 4, 2021 by Trini
gah! dropped word

[Trini]

So Fisher's Bart is supposed to first appear in the 150th episode, which would be 7.18, which is the season finale -- so it seems they're bringing him in for Season 8, actually. Strange that this was announced so early. So now I'm wondering if he makes a brief appearance before then? (Like Nora in Season 4.) Or maybe they'll do teases without the actor? They're already teasing Barry & Iris' children, but not Bart specifically.

But besides Bart, it should be interesting having a major milestone episode and a finale be the same episode. Hopefully they can step up their game.

[Starry]

Grant said that he hasn't met Jordan yet. My guess is that Bart won't show up before the 150th episode which according to TVLine should be 7x17.

 

19 hours ago, Trini said:

Plus, besides the fact that making Bart their son instead of grandson feels like a retread of Nora, it makes Barry & Iris' speedster family and legacy smaller in a way. It's not a hill I need to die on, but it's something that I think didn't need to be changed.

I agree with this. I get their logic but it would have been more interesting if Bart were their grandson, especially when you factor in the Thawne connection.

[BeautifulFlower]

I legit have seen people say they don't understand why Killer Frost has a warrant for arrest. Their reasoning has been the same. "She's been a hero for 3 years."

Seeing these things has made it even more clear these people don't really pay attention. I don't know what show they've been watching, but she was not a hero in season 4 and 5. Being in the field alongside The Flash doesn't make you a hero. If people paid attention, all those times she was in the field was due to someone asking her to go. She rarely volunteered for it. Plus, she was not in public doing this. There were no civilians around. Therefore, I don't understand how people came to the conclusion she was a hero for 3 years. Last season, they literally had her say she was "rebranding".

Moving on, this has really made me dislike the writing even more. I hate that this show has it where if you do good, then your past crimes are forgiven. I'm already fearing that they'll have her do something hugely heroic and cause Kramer to drop the charges or something. I hope not, but this is The Flash.

[Trini]

3 hours ago, Starry said:

Grant said that he hasn't met Jordan yet. My guess is that Bart won't show up before the 150th episode which according to TVLine should be 7x17.

Where did he say that, BTW?

Someone got the math wrong; the 150th is 7.18. Seasons 1, 2, and 3 had 23 episodes; Seasons 4 and 5 had 22 episodes; and Season 6 had 19 episodes. = 132. We need 18 more to get to 150.

[Starry]

1 hour ago, Trini said:

Where did he say that, BTW?

Someone got the math wrong; the 150th is 7.18. Seasons 1, 2, and 3 had 23 episodes; Seasons 4 and 5 had 22 episodes; and Season 6 had 19 episodes. = 132. We need 18 more to get to 150.

Grant said that in an Instagram story he posted after the casting announcement.

Season 4 had 23 episodes.

As for Frost, I couldn't care less. She should have paid for her crimes a long time ago and the entire team covering up for her and Caitlin makes them complicit. What's even more shady is that Barry and Joe work in law enforcement. Julian didn't know how right he was when he said that Barry's moral compass was broken.

[GHScorpiosRule]

It's bad enough this show mucked up and didn't give us the twins, but Norrrrrrra. Now they're turning Barry and Iris's grandson as their son?

The Showrunner and writers can just FUCK OFF.

[Lady Calypso]

16 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

It's bad enough this show mucked up and didn't give us the twins, but Norrrrrrra. Now they're turning Barry and Iris's grandson as their son?

The Showrunner and writers can just FUCK OFF.

Maybe because I'm not a comics fan, but I'm ok with this change, mostly because they've basically confirmed, through Barry in 4x01, that the Tornado Twins will be on the show eventually ("we're gonna need more diapers") so having Jessica Parker Kennedy and Jordan Fisher already cast for that inevitable time when the twins show up works better than casting an entirely new male character. 

Jordan also tweeted out that he can't wait to meet the cast/start his arc, along with the articles saying that he will first appear in the 150th episode so that's already confirmed.

2 hours ago, Trini said:

Someone got the math wrong; the 150th is 7.18. Seasons 1, 2, and 3 had 23 episodes; Seasons 4 and 5 had 22 episodes; and Season 6 had 19 episodes. = 132. We need 18 more to get to 150.

According to Wikipedia, the math is actually correct. 7x01 was episode 134, so 7x17 will be 150, because season 4 actually had 23 episodes.

[GHScorpiosRule]

2 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Maybe because I'm not a comics fan, but I'm ok with this change, mostly because they've basically confirmed, through Barry in 4x01, that the Tornado Twins will be on the show eventually ("we're gonna need more diapers") so having Jessica Parker Kennedy and Jordan Fisher already cast for that inevitable time when the twins show up works better than casting an entirely new male character. 

Jordan also tweeted out that he can't wait to meet the cast/start his arc, along with the articles saying that he will first appear in the 150th episode so that's already confirmed.

I've not read any Flash comics, either. All my knowledge is from the various 'toons. And I'm still irked. Make up another name, but BART is their grandson.

Yeah, nothing is going to sway my ire on this.

[adora721]

4 hours ago, Starry said:

 

As for Frost, I couldn't care less. She should have paid for her crimes a long time ago and the entire team covering up for her and Caitlin makes them complicit. What's even more shady is that Barry and Joe work in law enforcement. Julian didn't know how right he was when he said that Barry's moral compass was broken.

Bravo! Bravo! for this, perfectly said.

That is what happens when the writers' unconscious bias and non-intersectional faux feminism leads to plots in which the heroes compromise the moral high ground for the sake of a privileged female character. It's also why the strong black female trope has haunted Iris with regard to her trauma for years. It's why Iris was written to make "amends" with and reward Cait and Killer Frost even though they are the ones who hurt Iris and have never apologized for it. It's exhausting as well as infuriating.

I think that Joe and Iris mainly go along for Barry's sake and to keep team Flash intact. Barry and Cisco's moral compasses are broken because they still see Cait as the good person they first met who is a fragile victim of losing Ronnie twice. Nevermind the decisions she made in 3x7, nevermind the choice she made to work for Amunet in human trafficking to get technology when her best friend is literally a tech genius, nevermind that she risked Cynthia's life being snuffed out by the Thinker, nevermind her callous lie to get team Flash to work with Amunet again and promise to work for Amunet again to get KF back. These are not the actions of a good person who is a victim. And I don't need to rehash all of Killer Frost's criminal acts because they're plenty obvious. 

Edited April 1, 2021 by adora721

[Trini]

😁  Okay thanks everyone! So yeah, they're not bringing in a character like Bart just for two episodes, so it seems like they will be another West-Allen family arc in Season 8.

[Featherhat]

15 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Maybe because I'm not a comics fan, but I'm ok with this change, mostly because they've basically confirmed, through Barry in 4x01, that the Tornado Twins will be on the show eventually ("we're gonna need more diapers") so having Jessica Parker Kennedy and Jordan Fisher already cast for that inevitable time when the twins show up works better than casting an entirely new male character. 

Jordan also tweeted out that he can't wait to meet the cast/start his arc, along with the articles saying that he will first appear in the 150th episode so that's already confirmed.

According to Wikipedia, the math is actually correct. 7x01 was episode 134, so 7x17 will be 150, because season 4 actually had 23 episodes.

I hope that they'll make Bart and Nora twins. Although I can see them pulling an Arrow and having Bart be the Nora replacement until something changes the universe again and there she is in the finale season. I'd really like to see more of JPK as a better version of Nora, that's my big thing. 

Having the twins be "Bart and Nora" is a little uneven. They name their daughter after Barry's mother but their son after Barry himself not Henry or Joe. 

I kind of assume there will be some re-treading of the Nora story, maybe with Bart having a problem with Barry instead of Nora having a problem with Iris. The show does like to repeat certain plot points and it's an easy way to have angst and drama. 

 

[cambridgeguy]

1 hour ago, Featherhat said:

I hope that they'll make Bart and Nora twins. Although I can see them pulling an Arrow and having Bart be the Nora replacement until something changes the universe again and there she is in the finale season. I'd really like to see more of JPK as a better version of Nora, that's my big thing. 

Having the twins be "Bart and Nora" is a little uneven. They name their daughter after Barry's mother but their son after Barry himself not Henry or Joe. 

I kind of assume there will be some re-treading of the Nora story, maybe with Bart having a problem with Barry instead of Nora having a problem with Iris. The show does like to repeat certain plot points and it's an easy way to have angst and drama. 

Yeah, that's a little egotistical - Bartholomew Allen Jr. isn't really something that fits.  The exception would be if Barry dies/vanishes before he's born, but that really is a complete retread of the Nora story.  I suppose there could be some drama there if they think Barry is destined to vanish no matter what.

[Trini]

4 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

Yeah, that's a little egotistical - Bartholomew Allen Jr. isn't really something that fits.  The exception would be if Barry dies/vanishes before he's born, but that really is a complete retread of the Nora story.  I suppose there could be some drama there if they think Barry is destined to vanish no matter what.

See! That's another reason why making Bart Barry's son is dumb; it's canon that Barry doesn't really like his name, and it's out of character that he would name his kid after himself in general.

 

5 hours ago, Featherhat said:

I hope that they'll make Bart and Nora twins. Although I can see them pulling an Arrow and having Bart be the Nora replacement until something changes the universe again and there she is in the finale season. I'd really like to see more of JPK as a better version of Nora, that's my big thing. 

This is how I see it going also.

On a related note, it's silly that they've never brought back JPK yet, even for a cameo (like maybe a flashback or Speed Force vision, etc.). Jessica was great, and while I had issues with how they wrote Nora, I thought she was a good character.

[Trini]

One more thing with this Bart news - maybe Bart is smart enough to not time travel to before he was conceived, adding to my theory that Iris will be pregnant by the end of the season.

[Trini]

7.06 photos are out, and I'm confused:

https://flashtvnews.com/flash-photos-the-one-with-the-nineties/44995

[BeautifulFlower]

When Barry and Iris have a daughter, I actually don't want them to name her Nora. I feel it will kinda be messed up. You're going to name your daughter after a future version that no longer exists? Yes, Nora is Barry's mother's name. However, let's be real, they will most likely associate it with future Nora. \

[Trini]

I'm guessing the next Force we meet has the ability to ... shift time? And it's not only time travel shenanigans? Like time itself is moving, not people moving through time. -- Not really expecting it to make more sense in episode, but maybe they will surprise me.

In any case, love seeing Iris/Candice in a different hairstyle! She can pull off just about anything, it seems.

However, it's looking like the Iris and the Speed Force subplot is actually a Team subplot, judging by all the STAR Labs photos. Prove me wrong, show.

[Trini]

So did they really not use any Frost footage in the promo for a Frost-centric episode again??  LOL! Or is Frost not really the A-plot?

Also that synopsis for the next episode lied - the houseguest is not a surprise.

Quote

When a mysterious ice powered enemy frames Frost (Danielle Panabaker) for a brutal crime, she must find a way to clear her name. Meanwhile, Barry (Grant Gustin) and Iris (Candice Patton) have a surprise houseguest, and Joe (Jesse L. Martin) continues to deal with Kristen Kramer (guest star Carmen Moore).

 

In any case, looks like Grant gets to do some physical comedy next week; and I'm looking forward to scenes with him and Michelle Harrison that don't involve crying or dying.

[Trini]

Brandon posted this video when he did the latest instagram takeover for the show's account:

 

I'm interested in what they're wearing; they seem to be in costume (Grant's tattoos are covered), so I'm wondering what plot would have both Barry and Chester in vacation(?) outfits. Of course, it's possible it could just be for literally one scene; for something that happened offscreen. Wish we knew when the video was taken so there'd be an idea about which episode the outfits are for.

[Trini]

Don't know why these were so late, but I hope they fix the issue; 7.07 photos are out: https://flashtvnews.com/flash-growing-pains-preview-images-released/45033

Joe, Barry, Chester, and Kramer at a crime scene; a few of Frost; one of Chillblaine; one of SF Nora; Allegra and the Flash.

[Trini]

Two Frost-centric episodes in a row, while the Forces arc is stalled (probably)?  When will they learn.

[Starry]

Another one? Is DP the only supporting actor who wants to work more?

[Trini]

Yeah, next episode is her trial - which will be complete nonsense, like every other Arrow-verse trial:

 

[Trini]

7.08 synopsis:

Quote

"The People V. Killer Frost" - (8:00-9:00 p.m. ET) (TV-PG, LV) (HDTV)

CAITLIN FIGHTS TO CLEAR FROST - With Frost (Danielle Panabaker) facing an unjust punishment for her past crimes, Caitlin goes to great lengths to save her sister.

Meanwhile, Barry's (Grant Gustin) efforts to protect Speed Force Nora (guest star Michelle Harrison) lead to a shocking discovery.

Sudz Sutherland directed the episode written by Jonathan Butler & Gabriel Garza (#708). Original airdate 5/4/2021

 

-------

I like Butler and Garza, but I don't know if even they can save a Frost plot. But good to see there will be some movement with the Forces arc.

[Starry]

My guess is that they are all there for the 150th episode.

[Trini]

Aw, I hope they can get Keiynan for Wally to make an appearance; but I think he has a show that's filming in Australia.

[legaleagle53]

It would be interesting to have the Speed Force meet Joan Garrick, Jay's wife. I'm not sure who would be more shocked at the cosmic coincidence of their being identical.

[Trini]

Eric Dean Seaton is directing the 150th episode:

https://www.instagram.com/p/COBLf1dBNrZ/

Eric Wallace and Lauren Barnett are the writers. Seaton directed episode 6.15.

I think they'll start filming within the next couple of weeks.

[Trini]

7.09 synopsis:

Quote

"Timeless" - (8:00-9:00 p.m. ET) (TV-PG, LV) (HDTV)

BARRY SEEKS OUT TIMELESS WELLS - After a devastating betrayal, Barry (Grant Gustin) turns to Timeless Wells (Tom Cavanagh) for help. Meanwhile, Iris (Candice Patton) leads Team Citizen down a dangerous road in search of answers, and Cisco (Carlos Valdes) confides his biggest fear to Kamilla (guest star Victoria Park).

Menhaj Huda directed the episode written by Kristen Kim & Joshua V. Gilbert (#709). Original airdate 5/11/2021

 

----------

Quote

After a devastating betrayal, Barry

- sigh - Again??

Quote

turns to Timeless Wells (Tom Cavanagh)

:::HARSH SIGH:::

Quote

Iris leads Team Citizen

Glad they remembered this exists!

Quote

Cisco confides his biggest fear to Kamilla

Yay, a Cisco subplot! Annoying that it took them 4 episodes to pick this back up, though.

Quote

written by Kristen Kim & Joshua V. Gilbert

UGH - well, there go any expectations.

[cambridgeguy]

On 4/24/2021 at 10:51 PM, Trini said:

Cisco confides his biggest fear to Kamilla

I had this horrible dream where I was in every episode!

[Trini]

Costume update from Jordan Fisher:

 

[Trini]

Casting news and a bit more info on the Forces arc, from TV Line:

Quote

TVLine can exclusively confirm that [Sara] Garcia will make her debut in the CW series’ Tuesday, May 4 episode as Alexa Rivera, a social aid health worker who is working hard to overcome a dark past as she helps the underprivileged in Central City. But when Alexa uncovers a mysterious connection to the all-powerful Strength Force, she becomes Team Flash’s “most dangerous threat yet.”

Quote

“After the discovery of three mysterious new Forces, it took everything Team Flash had to keep each new adversary at bay,” notes showrunner Eric Wallace. “But with the Strength, Still and Sage Forces now threatening to form an unholy alliance, the growing crisis will push Barry, Iris and the rest of the Flash family to brink as they attempt to save humanity from their biggest threat so far.”

Edited April 30, 2021 by Trini

[Trini]

7.10 synopsis; first part of the 2 episodes that conclude the current "graphic novel":

Quote

"Family Matters, Part 1" -

PSYCH THREATENS IRIS - Iris (Candice Patton) is pushed to the limit as she seeks to uncover the mysterious truth about Psych (guest star Ennis Esmer).

Meanwhile, Barry (Grant Gustin) initiates a new training system, that could potentially backfire, with devastating consequences.

Joe (Jesse L. Martin) and Cisco (Carlos Valdes) make life-altering decisions.

Philip Chipera directed the episode written by Lauren Barnett & Emily Palizzi (#710). Original airdate 5/18/2021

 

-----

I hope Iris/team Citizen is the actual A-plot. If Iris gets whammied by Psych I wonder how they'll represent her greatest fears?

LOL - I like how they say "potentially backfire" as if that's not exactly what's going to happen. So, is the "training system" something he's using to better control/use his speed, or something else?

Hmm - "life-altering decisions" could mean anything.

Barnett is one of the newer writers; she joined the show in season 6. Her last two episodes were "Fear Me"(7.01) and "Success is Assured"(6.19). Palizzi has been with the show since season 5, but she's lower ranked. Her two writing credits are "Death of the Speed Force"(6.14) and "The One with the Nineties"(7.06).

Edited May 1, 2021 by Trini

[Trini]

In case they make him delete this, it's a tweet from Jordan Fisher saying:

"I met Barry Allen, Jay Garrick and XS today

12:56 AM · May 1, 2021"

[Trini]

Impulse haircut:

 

[Trini]

So Jessica Parker Kennedy (as Nora??) will be in multiple episodes, and not a cameo like I was thinking.

Now I'm really curious as to what the 7B arc is. I think the only solid info is that Godspeed will be involved. They've been so stingy with info/promo this year.

[Trini]

From Danielle P.'s latest interview:

https://www.tvinsider.com/997242/the-flash-season-7-frost-caitlin-snow-danielle-panabaker/

Quote

He’s not dead. That is not the last we see of Chillblaine, if that is where you’re going.

Quote

And you’re also directing another episode this season? I love that the Arrowverse is so open to letting the actors get behind the camera.

I did. I just turned in last week, Episode 714. It’s been great. <...>

And this year, I got to do an episode that really heavily features Kayla Compton, one of our newer series regulars, which was great for a variety of reasons. To get to tell that story with her was really special and meaningful for me as a woman, as someone who is an actress as well, to collaborate with her and guide her through that episode was a real treat.

Can you give me a tease about what the story is?

Barry [Grant Gustin] and Iris [Candice Patton] are out of town, so Team Flash is not at their full force, and Allegra [Compton] is on a mission of her own that will take her down a darker path than I think she anticipated.

I wonder if this is going to be like the the Cisco-centric episode in 6A, where Grant and Candice were only in two short scenes bookending the episode; or are they just the B-plot? Because if it's the first option, it sounds like a skip.

 

Quote

Now, can you give me a hint as to how this development with Frost tonight impacts Caitlin’s role with the group?

<...> And I think Caitlin is going to have to grieve [certain things] in her own way, but wait for Episode 712. I think the Caitlin-Barry-Cisco fans will enjoy that one…but it also may break their heart a little bit.

 

https://ew.com/tv/the-flash-danielle-panabaker-frost-trial/

Quote

"I don't think this episode is going to have the happy ending that some people want, so it's going to be incredibly impactful for both of them. There are consequences for Frost, and Caitlin could lose this person who is incredibly important to her," says Panabaker.

 

------

ETA: Panabaker's post about directing:

 

Edited May 4, 2021 by Trini

[Trini]

Photos for 7.09 are out: https://flashtvnews.com/the-flash-timeless-photos-released/45107

Team Citizen; Barry, and OG Wells.

[Trini]

From Matt's Inside Line;  another version of Danielle's quote:

Quote

I delivered your Q to Danielle Panabaker once the cameras stopped rolling, and she said that when it comes to Caitlin, “Episode 12 is one of my favorites this season — and one of the hardest. It’s a great Barry/Cisco/Caitlin storyline, and I’m excited for fans to see that one. But I think it will break their heart a little bit, too.”

 

[Trini]

 

Also episode titles from SpoilerTV:

The Flash - Episode 7.10 - Family Matters, Part 1
The Flash - Episode 7.11 - Family Matters, Part 2
The Flash - Episode 7.12 - Good-Bye Vibrations
The Flash - Episode 7.13 - Masquerade

[Starry]

So 7x12 is Cisco's last episode? I am not surprised that Carlos didn't renew his contract but I got played this time. DP keeps talking about people leaving and she's not one of them? 😂

[Trini]

3 hours ago, Starry said:

So 7x12 is Cisco's last episode?

That's the speculation; there's been nothing to confirm that yet. I think it would be weird - and disappointing - if he left mid-season. But it's possible.

I've given up guessing about Panabaker leaving; even a baby, and a pandemic, and working in a different country playing two characters aren't stopping her from being in all the episodes in her contract!

[adora721]

5 hours ago, Starry said:

So 7x12 is Cisco's last episode? I am not surprised that Carlos didn't renew his contract but I got played this time. DP keeps talking about people leaving and she's not one of them? 😂

I still hold out hope that Cait and DP will exit after season 7. She's probably not leaving until the finale; they wouldn't announce it now. I still believe Cisco's greatest fear and his words, "It can't end like this" are about Cait. 

[Trini]

7.11, "Family Matters, Part 2", synopsis:

Quote

"Family Matters, Part 2" - (8:00-9:00 p.m. ET) (TV-PG, LV) (HDTV)

TEAMWORK - Barry (Grant Gustin) and Iris (Candice Patton) come together to try and stop a dangerous force from destroying Central City.

Chad Lowe directed the episode with story by Jonathan Butler & Gabriel Garza and teleplay by Thomas Pound (#711). Original airdate 5/25/2021

 

----

Pound is the one who was usually writing Ralph/Elongated Man episodes; his last credited episode was "Fear Me"(7.05).

They say "Barry and Iris", but I'm assuming it's a team effort.

I guess 7.10 will let us know whether it's Psych or the Speed Force they're fighting.

I hope Barry & Iris' conversation about potential children (the Grant mentioned) is in this two-parter somewhere, especially with that title.

[Trini]

From Jessica Parker Kennedy's instagram stories, apparently:

 

[Trini]

Also this:

 

But is the nail polish part of his character's look?

[BeautifulFlower]

Killer Frost's speech was insulting. The choice of words they used infuriated me. These writers really tried to imply metahumans are discriminated against in Central City. This has never been the case. They used a real life issue (racism/homophobia) and applied it here to a straight, white woman. So much tone deafness.