Spoilers and Spoiler Discussion

[Katsullivan]

6 hours ago, doram said:

They can have Caitlin do bad things but none of them being her fault.

Big neon warning sign where characterisation is concerned. The moment writers start making characters do bad things that they'll be ultimately blameless for, you can see the Mary Sueism written all over the work.

6 hours ago, doram said:

Instead, they'll keep infantilizing Caitlin, and miss opportunities to make her interesting. 

Made most striking in the previous to last episode. Wally gets chewed out and banned by Barry, with no support from anyone except Jessie, while Caitlin's "betrayal" is only regarded as such by Julian, the newest member of the group and the one who has romantic interests in her. Actions without consequences are the death knoll of any good story.

[Trini]

nvm

Edited March 19, 2017 by Trini
Putting in Relationships thread instead

[Trini]

[RedVitC]

A new clip from tonight's episode from Supergirl (posting it here because it has Music Meister and it mentions Flash). Plus an interview with Darren Criss about the musical episode. 

[Lady Calypso]

So, we got a new recurring female coming at some point: Anne Dudek will be playing an older Felicity Smoak Tracy Brand, the quirky future genius

Joking about being older Felicity Smoak. It's too easy to compare every quirky girl with her in this universe, though, and I think Anne Dudek and Emily Bett Rickards look somewhat similar. 

[ruby24]

Bet she's a love interest for Wells at some point.

[Trini]

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

So, we got a new recurring female coming at some point: Anne Dudek will be playing an older Felicity Smoak Tracy Brand, the quirky future genius

Quote

TVLine has learned exclusively that Anne Dudek is set to recur on the CW hit as Tracy Brand, who is described as “a smorgasbord of quirky idiosyncrasies.”

Showing nary a hint of the greatness that people will celebrate her for in the future, Tracy will set out to find the genius she’s destined to one day become.

 

50 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

Bet she's a love interest for Wells at some point.

If she ends up being HR's exit from Earth-1, I'm all for it. But anyway, yay! for another recurring female!

[Trini]

BTS pic from Grant:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BR1kZ43hQ0-/

[emarasmoak]

On ‎16‎/‎03‎/‎2017 at 8:16 AM, Karlophe said:

So Mon-El must be the son of Malcolm, then. Victor Garber, Jesse L. Martin, and John Barrowman as three mob daddies singing together and trying to take each other out with tommy guns? I'm literally weeping with joy. Next Tuesday can't come soon enough!

Mon-El's character name is Tommy. Tommy as in Tommy Merlyn. You know, the real son of John Barrowman's character in this universe.

Well played, CW. I still miss Colin Donnel.

Edited March 21, 2017 by emarasmoak

[Trini]

From the Grant Gustin video linked in the Media thread, it sounds like the big Savitar reveal will be in episode 19 or 20.

[Karlophe]

19 hours ago, emarasmoak said:

Mon-El's character name is Tommy. Tommy as in Tommy Merlyn. You know, the real son of John Barrowman's character in this universe.

Well played, CW. I still miss Colin Donnel.

I was unlucky enough to only find that out  during the episode...which made me tear up and kick things...which I assume wasn't the writers' intention. I sadly join you, on this one point, in the corner of rude shock and disappointment. I still can't believe they went there.

[Trini]

Promo pics for "Abra Kadabra"

Ack! the Joe finger of disapproval!

Oh dear -- everyone is getting a turn in that hospital bed!

[Trini]

Not really new info, but I don't think it was posted here:

Quote

The Flash

The magic answer | Could Barry's struggle with figuring out who Savitar is and what his weaknesses are soon be over? The arrival of metahuman Abra Kadabra (David Dastmalchian) in next week's episode could be the big break he's been waiting for, but the knowledge of Savitar's true identity will come with a price. "He has some information about Savitar. He knows who he is," executive producer Todd Helbing tells THR. "There's a really good conflict in this episode where Gypsy [Jessica Camacho] is after him for something and Barry and the team finds out that he knows something about Savitar, so they have a conflict over who gets to take him. She wants to take him back to Earth-19 and make him pay for his crimes. Can Barry get that information out of him before he vanishes?"

The biggest twist is yet to come | When The Flash finally does reveal who is underneath that scary armor, the producers promise it will be the most shocking moment of the series to date. "Normally we have shown the identity of the villains a lot earlier in the season," Helbing says. "There's a specific reason why we waited for this reveal until now. Nobody's going to see this coming. Harrison Wells [Tom Cavanagh] in season one and Jay [Teddy Sears] in season two were satisfying reveals, but this one takes the cake."

"It is a very different and jarring kind of reveal," Gustin tells THR. "I can't really tease much other than it's going to be the hardest big bad to take down or even come up with a way to take down. It creates problems for us when we find out his true identity."

And Patton agrees that Savitar's big identity reveal will rival (if not beat the) Reverse-Flash (Matt Letscher) twist from season one. "One of our best villain reveals was Reverse-Flash and we're always trying to live up to that," she tells THR. "And I really think that this is on par with that. Without giving away too much, fans are going to be shocked. I was shocked when I found out. I was wondering how they could do it and make it work and keep it a secret, but I think fans are going to be really surprised. You won't see it coming."

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/dc-tv-watch-flash-savitar-reveal-988387

I think a lot of people have already guessed the most likely candidates for the Savitar reveal, so it may not be as shocking as they think.

[Trini]

TV Line's May Sweeps Scorecard is back!!
These spoilers count for episodes 3.20 - 3.23 of Flash (assuming the finale is May 23, and there are no breaks). The ones I think are most likely for this show:

• Couples having sex, kissing or saying “I Love You” for the first time: (Maybe Caitlin/Julian??)
• Couples reuniting: (Wally/Jesse or Cisco/Gypsy)
• Fatalities: (At least Savitar, but maybe Julian or HR too)
• Breakups/divorces: (Wally/Jesse?)
• Possible fatalities: (Barry)
• Characters leaving town: (HR, Wally if he goes off with Jesse?, maybe Caitlin IF they go full Killer Frost with her)
• Resurrections and/or big returns: (Jay Garrick? )
• Onscreen firings/resignations/major job changes: (Joe, Julian? HR?)
• Time warps/jumps: (The show can't help itself.)

[Proteus]

10 hours ago, Trini said:

TV Line's May Sweeps Scorecard is back!!
These spoilers count for episodes 3.20 - 3.23 of Flash (assuming the finale is May 23, and there are no breaks). The ones I think are most likely for this show:

• Couples having sex, kissing or saying “I Love You” for the first time: (Maybe Caitlin/Julian??)
• Couples reuniting: (Wally/Jesse or Cisco/Gypsy)
• Fatalities: (At least Savitar, but maybe Julian or HR too)
• Breakups/divorces: (Wally/Jesse?)
• Possible fatalities: (Barry)
• Characters leaving town: (HR, Wally if he goes off with Jesse?, maybe Caitlin IF they go full Killer Frost with her)
• Resurrections and/or big returns: (Jay Garrick? )
• Onscreen firings/resignations/major job changes: (Joe, Julian? HR?)
• Time warps/jumps: (The show can't help itself.)

I wouldn't consider either Jesse/Wally or Cisco/Gypsy reuniting couples. J/W aren't broken up and C/G aren't together.

If there are any fatalities, I don't think it'll be Julian or HR. We've been there and done that way too many times with a Caitlin love interest. I think a West will fall. If not Iris, I'd say Wally who I think is Savitar and will have to be killed in order to save Iris' life. I can't see the show going into season 4 with two Flashs.

I wouldn't be surprised if Westallen break up at the end of the season just because everything has been so rushed with them.

I don't see DP leaving the show so I don't think she's getting turned into KF full time or leaving town.

[SiobhanJW]

I just started watching the show a few weeks ago and have caught up. Could Savitar be Barry's Mothers doppelgänger? That would be shocking and be hard for him? 

[Trini]

"The Once and Future Flash" promo:

Welcome to the Wig Club, Grant!
Oh, I hate them for teasing a shiny new Flash costume that will (probably) never be the main costume!

ETA: So the reason they didn't use the loft set last episode was because they were trashing it for this one.

Edited March 29, 2017 by Trini

[Trini]

http://tvline.com/2017/03/30/once-upon-a-time-season-6-spoilers-snow-charming-sleeping-curse/

Quote

Anything to tide us over until The Flash returns? —Goldi

Before Season 3 of the CW hit races to an end, two characters that have never shared a scene before, will.

I think it would have to be one of the new characters (Julian, HR) with someone who is only recurring, or a former cast member, maybe. Or Savitar and... ??

[KirkB]

Savitar and Grodd.  :)

[Trini]

Look at this! They know they can do better, but refuse.

------

I'm still holding on to my theory that some version of Barry is Savitar, but I've seen some good arguments that it could be Eddie Thawne. Eddie might have motive, but how he got turned into a speedster is a big hole, though. From the promo, it seems less likely that it's Wally.

I really hoped that Savitar was just Savitar, but they insist on making it someone we know for shock value.

HR and Jay Garrick are also possibilities but I don't think it's either of them because they can't make them bad guys or kill them AGAIN.

Anyway, I'll laugh if it's Barry under Savitar's mask, because it's supposed to be a shocking twist, but it's the first theory people started putting out there.

----

Also kind of worried about the lack of Joe in that promo....

[Trini]

This goes with "two characters that have never shared a scene before" -

Quote

Have you scored any scoop on The Flash finale? — Jameson

Just that you should expect some familiar faces in the run-up to the season finale. “We have a couple of recurring villains, one major recurring character,” EP Andrew Kreisberg says. “It’s funny. Every year, around this time of year, I feel like there’s this speculation, no matter what show it is, that we don’t know what we’re doing — maybe we don’t — but there is a plan. There’s always a plan on every one of these shows. We set stuff up throughout the years that’s going to be paid off. Whether you enjoy it or not is something different. But we’re really excited about where we’re at, how these revelations are going to come [out] and how everything gets wrapped up by the end of the year.”

http://ew.com/tv/2017/03/31/spoiler-room-westworld-greys-anatomy-once-upon-time/

Edited March 31, 2017 by Trini

[ruby24]

Kreisberg sounds a tad defensive there, lol.

[Trini]

It goes with one of the more 'out there' theories, but maybe Nora Allen and Savitar(/whoever it ends up being); or Nora Allen and Cisco for "two who have never shared a scene".

[TobinAlbers]

On 3/29/2017 at 2:15 AM, Trini said:

Welcome to the Wig Club, Grant!

I know. I feel like he was jealous of Amell's various island wigs and begged for his own stab at it.

On 3/31/2017 at 2:13 PM, Trini said:

I'm still holding on to my theory that some version of Barry is Savitar, but I've seen some good arguments that it could be Eddie Thawne. Eddie might have motive, but how he got turned into a speedster is a big hole, though. From the promo, it seems less likely that it's Wally.

Wasn't Eddie's dead body pulled into the singularity? Could it be possible that it might've connected or be part of the speed force somehow where by being in the speed force Eddie was alive dead and everything in between to somehow be evolved/transformed into Savitar. Perhaps being in the speed force, time is relative, meaning a nanosecond can be the same as millennia. Savitar said it was born in the speed force after centuries of gaining and losing its sanity. I think Wally and Jay's moments trapped in their time loops in the speed force are a clue that Savitar was in a similar position. Eddie could be trapped in there reliving his breaking point moment over and over again evolving into Savitar.

The other theory with Savitar being originally someone else, a speedster who was trapped to witness their heartbreaking moment over and over again, losing his mind in his anguish, going numb at the reliving of it, only to break again, the cycle continuing. Wally relived his mother dying, we don't know what Jay's is, but Barry's is watching Iris die and not being fast enough. What if Barry is still trapped in that loop and the entire season we're seeing is the breaking down of his psyche to become what is Savitar? Barry just doesn't realize it yet. The end result may indeed be his breaking free of the time loop and returning to the reality of S1/2 with Dante alive, no Julien, but also no proposal to Iris.

[Trini]

3.19 description:

Quote

"The Once and Future Flash"

TOM CAVANAGH DIRECTS; BARRY TRAVELS TO THE FUTURE TO SAVE IRIS

- Barry (Grant Gustin) travels to the future to find out Savitar's still unknown identity in the hopes of saving Iris (Candice Patton). Upon his arrival in 2024, Barry encounters future versions of his Team Flash friends, who, following the death of Iris, have become very different people, profoundly impacted by their showdown with Savitar. It will be up to Barry to infuse a sense of hope back into the team, as he proves to be hero his future friends have been waiting for. Meanwhile, back in 2017, the hunt for Killer Frost (Danielle Panabaker) continues.

Tom Cavanagh directed the episode written by Carina Adly MacKenzie
(#319). Original airdate 4/25/2017.

 

Excited for this one! Not just because it should have the reveal of Savitar's identity, but we get to see more alternate versions of characters. Also it might look and feel different just because of new people writing and directing.

[Mellowyellow]

I'm excited about the next episode in general but is it bad that I'm SUPER excited to see GG in a wig????

Wig looks all kinds of weird and wonderful!!!!!!

[ruby24]

I think Barry is Savitar. I know everyone's already guessed that, but I don't think they will end up surprising us. And if that's the case, I don't see how it doesn't end with Barry sacrificing himself to the speed force (also like everyone's already guessed), because what else can he do?

I'll be disappointed if this is exactly how it plays out.

[Trini]

Yeah, when they had Wally 'lost' in the Speed Force, that kind of killed my theory that they would do that with Barry in the finale. I think there could still be some type of sacrifice, though. Maybe not the same way as shown with Wally.

[Trini]

Episode 3.20 description:

Quote

“I Know Who You Are” —

VIBE FACES OFF AGAINST KILLER FROST –
Barry (Grant Gustin) and the team meet Tracy Brand (guest star Anne Dudek), a scientist, who may be the key to stopping Savitar. Unfortunately, Killer Frost (Danielle Panabaker) is also after Tracy so Team Flash must battle their old friend, which proves to be particularly difficult for Cisco (Carlos Valdes). Joe (Jesse L. Martin) and Cecile’s (guest star Danielle Nicolet) relationship takes a big turn.

Hanelle Culpepper directed the episode written by Bronwen Clark & Joshua V. Gilbert

(#320). Original airdate 5/2/2017.

 

Hmm, second episode in a row with new(-ish) writers.

On Earth-2, Killer Frost was a criminal, what's going to be Earth-1 Killer Frost's motivation?? Is Caitlin/KF still going to be trying to get rid of her powers, or... what?

Gah -- not liking that vague statement about Joe and Cecile! I have a feeling it will be a negative turn, but I hope not.

[cambridgeguy]

16 hours ago, Trini said:

Gah -- not liking that vague statement about Joe and Cecile! I have a feeling it will be a negative turn, but I hope not.

Well, it'll probably be a positive turn (engagement?) that will lead to a negative (one of them dying?).  To be honest Joe is the one whose time should be up in the grand tradition of Moira Queen, Jonathan Kent, and Henry Allen.  However, I'm not sure if they're willing to get rid of Jesse Martin and it will be kind of cheap if they pull a Cavanaugh and bring in a doppleganger to keep him around.

[Trini]

Yeah, they were willing to create a completely useless character to keep Cavanugh on as a regular, so I don't think they are willing to let go of Martin... yet. They shouldn't, but I can see them killing off Joe; not this season, though.

[Mellowyellow]

26 minutes ago, doram said:

 

I really hope that they would go this route. It would be brilliant. 

Completely agree! I'm a Caitlin fan and would love to see her as the s4 big bad!

The only issue I see is whether her powers are powerful enough to be a big bad. E2 Killer Frost wasn't overly powerful so I don't see how she can stack up against 2 speedsters and the almighty Vibe. 

[ruby24]

I'd like her as a long-term villain, but my biggest wish is for the show to become lighthearted and fun again (at least for the majority of a season), so I'd like for things not to be so dark.

[Mellowyellow]

11 hours ago, doram said:

I think that's where the emotional advantage comes in. The fact that she knows these people so well - their strengths, their weaknesses... Also let's not discount the fact that she's a scientist in her own right and should probably be able to enhance her meta-powers artificially. 

I'd love it if she went all evil scientist on them too besides the powers. She's a scientist and a doctor, I'd actually like them to explore that side of her more. 

[Trini]

I'm not sure if the showrunners are willing to commit to making Caitlin/Killer Frost a 'big bad', though. They've been so wishy-washy about her all season.

Looking at the bigger picture, I'd hate to lose a female Team Flash member; it would be yet another 'friend turned enemy' arc; and I think Caitlin/Danielle would lose a lot of screen time if she's not working with the Team at STAR Labs.

I guess I don't want to see her as a villain. We've seen that already with the Earth-2 version. I'd rather see her develop her powers for good -- like with Cisco/Vibe.

Edited April 16, 2017 by Trini

[Airraz0r]

15 hours ago, Trini said:

I'm not sure if the showrunners are willing to commit to making Caitlin/Killer Frost a 'big bad', though. They've been so wishy-washy about her all season.

Looking at the bigger picture, I'd hate to lose a female Team Flash member; it would be yet another 'friend turned enemy' arc; and I think Caitlin/Danielle would lose a lot of screen time if she's not working with the Team at STAR Labs.

I guess I don't want to see her as a villain. We've seen that already with the Earth-2 version. I'd rather see her develop her powers for good -- like with Cisco/Vibe.

The way I see it that the show runners would be seen as hypocrites. When they're going thru audition they wanted a woman in their late 30's early 40's to portray Caitlin. But when DP audition for the role, they were so keen on having her so much, they rewrote the character arc to make it happen. So when Panabaker signed up, that contract was for 7 years, thus making her a series regular. Furthermore, Panabaker has great chemistry w/ Gustin & other cast mates that she is the reason why DC comics choose KF become the newest member of  JLA in rebirth. So sidelining Caitlin/DP would be the worst mistake. Did anybody remember how Sara was killed off in the 3rd season of Arrow ?

[Trini]

Promo photos for 3.19; with comment from Candice and Grant:

Quote

“It’s a future where Iris has been killed, and everyone is changed because of it,” Candice Patton shared during my recent visit to the set. And yes, Iris’ would-be husband is among those hit hardest. “You see this older version of Barry Allen that hasn’t really ever gotten over the death of Iris West,” says Patton. As Grant Gustin added, “He’s in shambles.”

FlashTVNews.com also has the behind-the-scenes photos of Cavanugh as director.

 

Eh... I don't think even an older, depressed Cisco would wear that sweater.

[Trini]

Matt's Inside Line:

Quote

Some people are worried about The Flash’s WestAllen with regards to who Savitar could be. Do you know what effect the reveal will have on their relationship? —Arlena

This much showrunner Andrew Kreisberg can offer you: Newly engaged Barry and Iris “are rock solid again” as “the quest to figure out who Savitar is and stop him from killing Iris becomes pretty much the main focus of the rest of the season.” And as those final five episodes unfold, there are twists both “scary and dramatic” as well as, hmm, “hilarious,” the EP says. “We’re really excited about the end of the year.”

[nove]

Hi, hopemI'm posting in the right place. I have a question possible spoiler for season 3, episode 11 about 38 minutes in to the episode. When there's a knock at the door, Harrison Wells tells everyone to hush, "It's the police".Barry replies "We're the police".

Barry is csi, some havw it confused as an officer who can arrest people. But its just a csi. It's been mentioned  before how Barry Allen does work for the police (CSI department) but what does 'police' actually mean in the Flash universe then? Seems its just a term thrownaqround in flash but not arrow, refer themselves as vigilantes...Sounds a bit dumb lol, but there's fans who say it's the same thing. Because just before that in the episode Barry handed his letter of resignation to Julian, and when he opens the door just before  saying  'were the police' - Julian informs Barry that he had not actually sent his letter of resignation. My question is:

If Barry had resigned, why does he himself or his friends refer to themselves as the police?...isn't he just a crime scene investigator .....the comic book outdated term of  'police scientist'?

thanks !

Edited April 18, 2017 by nove
sp

[Trini]

4 hours ago, nove said:

If Barry had resigned, why does he himself or his friends refer to themselves as the police?...isn't he just a crime scene investigator .....the comic book outdated term of  'police scientist'?

As a CSI, he is a part of the police force/department. But he could also be using the word to refer to the group as crimefighters.

[Trini]

Episode 3.21 description:

Quote

"Cause and Effect" - (8:00-9:00 p.m. ET) (TV-PG, LV) (HDTV)

DRASTIC TIMES CALL FOR DRASTIC MEASURES - Barry (Grant Gustin) takes drastic measures to stop Savitar. Meanwhile, H.R. (Tom Cavanagh) continues to push Tracy Brand (guest star Anne Dudek) to design the trap for Savitar and Killer Frost (Danielle Panabaker) returns with an interesting proposal.

David McWhirter directed the episode written by Judalina Neira & Lauren Certo
(#321). Original airdate 5/9/2017.

----------------

So it looks like Caitlin will be Killer Frost for the rest of the season? I'm worried that whatever resolution they come up with for this arc will disappoint.

[ruby24]

I think she will be KF well into next season too.

[Trini]

26 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

I think she will be KF well into next season too.

If so, we'll probably be seeing less of Danielle. I don't know how much less, but I doubt they have the budget for the extra time to put her in that Killer Frost wig and makeup every episode. (I know it's not a huge amount of work, but no other (supporting) character in the CW/DC shows needs such a transformation for the actor. (Except for Martian Manhunter on Supergirl, but that's CGI which is already built into the budget from the start.))

[Argenta]

So....I keep reading that next episode Barry will go forward in time to 2024. If this is true, will that mean we get to see the events described in the infamous Future Newspaper - i.e. the Crisis, the fight between Barry, Oliver, Thawne and whoever else was mentioned, etc?

[johntfs]

We might see a vague touch of those things, but figure mostly we'll see how much life sucks for everyone, especially Barry, with Iris dead.

[Argenta]

Oh cool, another cheery Flash episode then :)

[Trini]

Nothing really new here: http://tvline.com/gallery/may-sweeps-spoilers-2017-finale-episodes-photos/#!11/the-once-and-future-flash-2/

Quote

PRE-FINALE: Barry travels to 2024 to find out Savitar’s identity, where he encounters future versions of himself as well as his Team Flash friends. Upon returning to the present, Barry & Co. meet a scientist (House‘s Anne Dudek) who may be the key to stopping Savitar, but they must — literally, and with great difficulty — fight to keep Killer Frost from getting to her first. Afterward, Caitlin’s icy alter ego makes an interesting proposal.

SEASON FINALE (MAY 23): After discovering Savitar’s true identity, Team Flash prepares for a final, epic battle with the God of Speed… while struggling with a major setback. Expect a season-ending cliffhanger that will leave viewers — and the heroes — questioning how they will move forward in Season 4.

So... typical season finale, then?

[RedVitC]

So Barry will be interacting with several versions of himself...Maybe that Barry with the new suit is another version. Could that Barry be from even further in the future?

[RedVitC]

Unfortunately there probably won't be a lot of Iris in the new episode tomorrow, but I'm still really excited for it! I know some are tired of time travel, but I think traveling to the future is so interesting.

[Trini]

2 hours ago, RedVitC said:

Maybe that Barry with the new suit is another version. Could that Barry be from even further in the future?

That's my guess. Or the Barry that never had his mother murdered.