S04.E07: The Snow Queen

[Randomosity]

1. Belle trying to rescue Hook from what she thought would be his self-loathing. He shot her in the back when she didn't have a weapon and took away her identity. Yeah, he apologized to her for it, but I still think that was awfully big of Belle.

Ha, different strokes... I saw it more as Hook being the one of that group that Belle really doesn't want to see the worst of again. As in, Good god, not the worst of Hook in the mirror! Any one but him! As you say, he's the one who did some pretty nasty stuff to her.

[Serena]

I completely agree that he could use that impressive vocabulary--and they probably don't because of complacency, but it could be a deliberate bit of characterization.

 

The first word, "devilishly" implies a villain.  Usually used that way it would mean "to the extreme", but it also means "malicious, evil".  Devilishly handsome would include both his villainy--which is a reason for his self-loathing--and his looks--which he's aware of, because he's used them.

 

It boosts his ego, and knocks it down, at the same time.

Then I vote for him to declare himself "wickedly good-looking" next time. Or "criminally attractive". (I know, I know. This is the point in which I should "let it go").

[Shanna Marie]

I see that line as a self-defense mechanism. Hook is all façade but he is actually really insecure and self-loathing. His good looks are probably the only thing he is proud about himself.

That's the way I see it, but I have a personal bias. My dad does that kind of thing, semi-jokingly. He can't pass a mirror without stopping to say how good he looks, and when I call home and talk to my mom, I can always hear him in the background saying, "Tell her I still look good." He's actually pretty handsome, so it could come across as vain, but my mom explained to me that he was a skinny, nerdy kid with Coke-bottle thick glasses who wore clothes his mother made at home from whatever remnants she could find at the fabric store. He didn't start feeling at all good about himself until he was in college and in ROTC, so he got to wear uniforms instead of homemade clothes and started bulking up a little, and then he took a psychology course and learned about stuff like self image, so he got in the habit of giving himself affirmations. It's since become something he plays off as a joke, but I think there's still a bit of him trying to force himself to not see that skinny, nerdy kid anymore. And it's always the same words (because that's how affirmations work). So I could see Hook doing that sort of thing to get past the self image of being the abandoned kid no one wanted (and with his build, you know he went through an awkward scrawny phase), and continuing even after it actually became true.

 

I saw it more as Hook being the one of that group that Belle really doesn't want to see the worst of again. As in, Good god, not the worst of Hook in the mirror! Any one but him!

That was the way I saw it, too. After all, she claimed he had a dark heart and blamed him for dragging Rumple into darkness -- after learning what Rumple did to him and Milah and while seeing Rumple beating him almost to death (incidentally, that's why I don't feel too bad about him shooting her. I didn't even like Hook at the time, and I cheered that because she was being so dense as to fall into aiding and abetting and at the very least endorsing Rumple's evil actions, which in my book keeps her from being entirely "innocent." I still can't get over her blaming the man being beaten for being beaten.). So if she feels that Hook is dark inside, she wouldn't want that coming out.

[ShadowFacts]

I didn't cheer Belle getting shot, she wasn't guilty of anything for which she deserved being shot.  I definitely hold the Cap super accountable for trying to kill her in the Enchanted Forest in Regina's tower.  He's got pretty good reason to have a low opinion of himself and I agree it was pretty big of Belle to push him aside.

[YaddaYadda]

I didn't cheer Belle getting shot, she wasn't guilty of anything for which she deserved being shot.  I definitely hold the Cap super accountable for trying to kill her in the Enchanted Forest in Regina's tower.  He's got pretty good reason to have a low opinion of himself and I agree it was pretty big of Belle to push him aside.

I totally agree with this, but Belle also decided that she wants to be a hero the day before. 

 

Also, was it just me or was it nice to see Belle with a skirt that was a bit longer than usual?

[daxx]

I see that line as a self-defense mechanism. Hook is all façade but he is actually really insecure and self-loathing. His good looks are probably the only thing he is proud about himself.

I am quite sure Hook has such a poor self image about every other part of his life that his looks are the only thing he can feel good about. That and being a great captain. I assume his self loathing started during his pirating days when he realized he had to do dastardly things to run a pirate ship and keep order. The first few years it was probably easy with all those navy trained men but as he hired on true pirates that would have changed.

[dr pepper]

I thought the writing for all of the flashback scenes, particularity the first one, were really really poorly written. Not in terms of continuity or characterization, or anything deeper, but just the basic action and dialog. The whiplash from Baby!Ingrid killing the kidnapper dude and her sisters promising to be together forever was just weird. Kids that young and presumably sheltered should have been freaking out and crying a lot more and running for Mom and Dad.

 

Kids that young, with that kind of status would not have been out like that alone. There would have been a governess nearby and at least one guard prowling the perimeter. Sure, that guard would probably have been a nutcracker, but there'd still be one.

[Mom x 3]

Okay, so if Gerda didn't have her memories after Grand Pabbie did his magic, then what the hell was in the letter that she just had to try and write to the girls when their ship was sinking?  Didn't she say, "They have to know?"  If she did have her memories, then did she tell her husband, because he seemed to know what she was talking about?  Or did she tell him when Elsa started manifesting powers?  But if she didn't have her memories, then how did they know to give the gloves to Elsa?  But if she did have her memories, then why was she going to see Rumplestiltskin when she knew that didn't work out for Ingrid?

 

I have a love/hate relationship with this show.

Also, I know she urned Ingrid in the emotional aftermath of Helga's demise, but Ingrid was the heir apparent (or was she queen already? - I can't remember), so wouldn't urning her have been treason?  And would Grand Pabbie have gone along with that? 

And Snow and Belle must have pissed off the wardrobe/make-up people.  They are starting to look haggard. 

[FurryFury]

1. Belle trying to rescue Hook from what she thought would be his self-loathing. He shot her in the back when she didn't have a weapon and took away her identity. Yeah, he apologized to her for it, but I still think that was awfully big of Belle.

 

You know, I'm far from Belle's biggest fan, but in moments like this, I'm almost starting to think she's not that irredeemable (as a character, not as a person). Maybe it's not just her who drags Rumple down - maybe it works the other way, too. And yeah, it was a nice scene.

 

I saw it more as Hook being the one of that group that Belle really doesn't want to see the worst of again. As in, Good god, not the worst of Hook in the mirror! Any one but him!

 

I didn't get this impression at all.

[HeimrArnadalr]

Also, I know she urned Ingrid in the emotional aftermath of Helga's demise, but Ingrid was the heir apparent (or was she queen already? - I can't remember), so wouldn't urning her have been treason?  And would Grand Pabbie have gone along with that? 

She was still the heir apparent; her father's 70th birthday was the party, and the Duke of Weselton was still there on his diplomatic mission so it's unlikely both parents would have died so soon and nothing about it would be said. 

 

As for the urning, she did kill her sister, which was something that Hans was able to sentence Elsa to death for. In fact, the charge he used was treason. "Gerda" may have actually done Ingrid a favor. As for the trolls... in the original Scandinavian myths, they weren't that nice to humans. 

[kingshearte]

Was it just me or did it look like the Duke of Weaselton's mustache wanted to fall off during the final scenes?

Would you want to stay attached to that guy?

 

I really really hope that this episode was the precursor to some kind of actual communication between Emma and Snow, and, to a certain extent, Charming too. Although Emma's relationship with Charming is stronger than with Snow, he was still a party to the abandonment-issues-inspiring events. But yeah. Those two women seriously need to have it out. At the very least, Snow needs to acknowledge that Emma has a right to her feelings and not just act like she's being entirely unreasonable if she expresses them. And maybe, just maybe, if Snow could demonstrate that she was receptive to them, Emma might actually open up and express them in ways other than offhand slightly snarky sounding comments. Oh, and Snow also needs to acknowledge that yeah, right about now, she is scared of Emma, whether she wants to admit that or not. Then she can work through it.

[Alex]

Two things I loved about the mirror scene:

2. The Charming-Hook team-up. It's like they read each other's minds, like, when did they get that close? Also comes up again when David shoves Hook out of falling lamppost danger.

I noticed the same, and also that Hook ended David's sentence about where was Emma.

Perhaps, from the ice cave episode, they silently agreed that Emma is very important to both of them and them for her?

Edited November 12, 2014 by Alex

[Shanna Marie]

After rewatching "Rocky Road," I have to think that Ingrid had some de-urned time between this flashback and the time Hans accidentally freed her, since she and Elsa were swapping stories about building ice palaces and making snowmen come to life. It didn't seem like Ingrid had explored her powers at all before she accidentally killed Helga, so she had no reason to suspect that ice palaces and making snowmen come to life were at all possible. Unless maybe she was running off behind her sisters' backs to practice her magic, but then wouldn't she have learned enough control not to kill her sister?

 

As it is now, it looks like she went straight from accidentally killing two people and creating a few flurries when she was upset to being in total control, being able to do amazing things with her powers and talking about making ice palaces. And she went straight from two villains and a shocked and grief-stricken sister calling her a monster to claiming that all non-magical people were against her and would turn on anyone like her. On this show, that last one isn't so much a stretch, but there is still the gap in the use of her powers.

 

It's also now clear how badly Rumple has been lying through the whole thing, since he's been claiming total ignorance of Elsa, Anna and the Snow Queen, and yet we know for sure that he met Anna, heard about Elsa, and met Ingrid and seems to be far more familiar with Ingrid than you'd expect from that brief meeting with the three sisters.

[KingOfHearts]

In the gazebo, why wasn't Ingrid wearing the gloves? She was holding the urn and the gloves. If she was so afraid of letting her powers get out of control that she was holding the failsafes, why didn't she just wear the Conceal Don't Feels?

Edited November 12, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[kili]

Okay, so if Gerda didn't have her memories after Grand Pabbie did his magic, then what the hell was in the letter that she just had to try and write to the girls when their ship was sinking?

 

There had better be a pay-off for that, but I'm beginning to wonder. I guess maybe Gerda went to see this great wizard she'd heard about and Rumple filled in the back-story (told her that they had met before, that she had had two sisters, that one of those sisters was magical and the magical sister killed the non-magical one). Maybe the note said "Whatever you do, never open the urn hidden in a cave on the Northern border".

 

I don't really get Gerda's grand "let's make everybody forget about Ingrid/Helga" plan. She asked for mind alterations for everyone in the kingdom and the Duke too. What  happens when the next diplomatic mission comes and asks about the three princesses? Or some trader rollls into town and is surprised there is suddenly only one? Was the troll supposed to erase the minds of everybody everywhere? Why would he agree to such nonsense?  Has he no shame for messing with that many people's memory? Just say they fell in a river and their bodies were never found. Just alter the Duke's memory.

[stealinghome]

After rewatching "Rocky Road," I have to think that Ingrid had some de-urned time between this flashback and the time Hans accidentally freed her, since she and Elsa were swapping stories about building ice palaces and making snowmen come to life. It didn't seem like Ingrid had explored her powers at all before she accidentally killed Helga, so she had no reason to suspect that ice palaces and making snowmen come to life were at all possible. Unless maybe she was running off behind her sisters' backs to practice her magic, but then wouldn't she have learned enough control not to kill her sister?

This episode made me wonder whether the urn is its own reality, its own world. Because I agree, the show has made the gap in Ingrid's powers--and her attitude toward her powers--way too big for her to have been in suspended animation all this time. So maybe the urn has its own world where time is frozen--you don't age, a la Storybrooke 1.0--but you're conscious and living and remember all your urn experiences once you're de-urned. Maybe this world is similar to--or even the same world as--people sucked up by the hat transport to?

[KingOfHearts]

 

I don't really get Gerda's grand "let's make everybody forget about Ingrid/Helga" plan.

If she had her staff erase all the records of Ingrid/Helga, how did she get them to do it without question? How did they find absolutely everything, and how did she keep it a secret for so many years? Did she immediately toss out their possessions? I don't get how no one figured it out all those years.

 

I didn't even find her plan all that necessary, to be honest. Was she trying to hide the fact she urned Ingrid?

Edited November 12, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[myril]

Frankly, I don't see any good reason in the story world for this big memory erasure at Arendelle. Guess it's just a convenient way to avoid too much wondering about how they get from this past to what happened in the movie and what happened now without the need of explaining everything. No one remembered, no one asked questions, so dear audience stop asking questions. I woudn't be too surprised anymore, when in the end anyone connected with Arendelle goes back and Grand Pappie does another great forget-everything-spell, so no one remembers, there is something like Storybrooke. And as conveniently everyone on Storybrooke will forget, that there was Elsa, Anna, Kristoff and a Snow Queen.

[KingOfHearts]

 

No one remembered, no one asked questions, so dear audience stop asking questions.

Except we're the ones asking questions now, haha.

 

Since the disappearance of Ingrid and Helga was so tragic, you'd think the royal staff would keep it a secret anyway. It's not like Anna and Elsa got out much. At least, that's what I assumed happened before Shady Pabbie spilled the beans.

Edited November 12, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[KAOS Agent]

Rewatched the scene with Snow telling David they failed. There's a reaction shot with Hook and I know it's supposed to be him feeling bad and worrying about Emma, but I just see this thought bubble over his head that reads, "Bloody hell. Do you know how much time and effort I put in to get Emma to accept her magic and to believe that this is her home? Five seconds and you've blown that all to hell. Nice work, Snow White."

[Camera One]

After rewatching "Rocky Road," I have to think that Ingrid had some de-urned time between this flashback and the time Hans accidentally freed her, since she and Elsa were swapping stories about building ice palaces and making snowmen come to life. It didn't seem like Ingrid had explored her powers at all before she accidentally killed Helga, so she had no reason to suspect that ice palaces and making snowmen come to life were at all possible. Unless maybe she was running off behind her sisters' backs to practice her magic, but then wouldn't she have learned enough control not to kill her sister?

 

As it is now, it looks like she went straight from accidentally killing two people and creating a few flurries when she was upset to being in total control, being able to do amazing things with her powers and talking about making ice palaces. And she went straight from two villains and a shocked and grief-stricken sister calling her a monster to claiming that all non-magical people were against her and would turn on anyone like her. On this show, that last one isn't so much a stretch, but there is still the gap in the use of her powers.

 

 

We can assess this again when 4A is done.  I kinda have a scary feeling that the writers never even thought about this.

Edited November 13, 2014 by Camera One

[Jean]

This is what Mitchell says about the urning. This relevant part isn't spoilery so I think it can go here?

 

http://www.tvfanatic.com/2014/11/once-upon-a-time-spoilers-whats-next-for-the-snow-queen/

 

I started with the fact that she’d been kept captive for 20 years in a vase and then I started with the question ‘what does that mean?’ She was put away from society when she was 10 and then she was in a vase most of the time when we learn who we are so I started to play her like a pre-teen girl who has never been in the world and someone who doesn’t really know.

It doesn't sound like she was de-urned until Hans/Elsa came along. It could like a prison cell and she could practice her magic inside the urn.

[Rumsy4]

http://www.tvfanatic.com/2014/11/once-upon-a-time-spoilers-whats-next-for-the-snow-queen/

It doesn't sound like she was de-urned until Hans/Elsa came along. It could like a prison cell and she could practice her magic inside the urn.

I was afraid of this. So, Ingrid goes into the Urn when she is like 20, and comes out looking 40, in control of her powers, manipulative, and super-powerful? Okay.

[Notwisconsin]

When the three sisters went to Rump and he suggested lessons, and they REFUSED. That was the stupidest moment in the entire series. It's pure unadulterated IDIOT PLOTTING. Jeez!

 

(edited to put in the correct term)

Edited November 14, 2014 by Notwisconsin

[stealinghome]

It doesn't sound like she was de-urned until Hans/Elsa came along. It could like a prison cell and she could practice her magic inside the urn.

This. I'm guessing that the urn is its own little reality, kinda like a mini-realm.

[YaddaYadda]

Like a genie's bottle?

[Rumsy4]

Like a genie's bottle?

That does make sense, but they need to specify that in-show. Otherwise, I'll continue assuming she was merely in liquid form inside the Urn.

[KingOfHearts]

 

 

When the three sisters went to Rump and he suggested lessons, and they REFUSED. That was the stupidest moment in the entire series. It's pure unadulterated IDIOT PLOTTING. Jeez!

(edited to put in the correct term)

 

I find it odd Rumple let them have that urn. It's a super powerful object. Heck, they could have probably trapped Rumple himself in it. Also... what was with the candle? If the Snow Queen could just magic it away at any moment, then was the point of Mr. Gold letting them use it in the first place? And why has it never come up before with all the other Big Bads they could have used it on... like Zelena or Pan.

[Camera One]

Where the heck did that Giant Candle come from?  Seriously, this show is so full of WTFs, that you forget one when the next one comes along 5 minutes later.

Edited November 14, 2014 by Camera One

[Actionmage]

The giant candle came with the runes that Belle found. My conspiracy theory headcannon is that Dairy Queen planted the spell and the candle in the library. Also, that she ensorcelled the candle to make Emma's magic wonky.  Actually, not entirely sure about where the candle was found, but the spell, written in runes, was probably a plant.

 

That would also be why Regina has regressed to Woegina: if she was marginally getting along with Snowing and Fam, then Regina could tell everyone "DQ? Is effing with Emma's powers. I gotta stop that, because I am the only one allowed to be mean to Emma!"

[HeimrArnadalr]

That does make sense, but they need to specify that in-show. Otherwise, I'll continue assuming she was merely in liquid form inside the Urn.

There was also that deleted scene from a few episodes back that said the urn was made of some sort of anti-magic material. I don't think one could practice magic inside of a magic-neutralizing container.

[Serena]

When the three sisters went to Rump and he suggested lessons, and they REFUSED. That was the stupidest moment in the entire series. It's pure unadulterated IDIOT PLOTTING. Jeez!

 

(edited to put in the correct term)

That's actually the smartest thing a character has ever done on the show. I can think of at least four women who accepted lessons with Rumple and they're now dead and/or evil.

[darkestboy]

Great episode for Ingrid. Her backstory was sad enough but overall worked and I liked how she was able to get under Emma's skin and strike a deal with Rumple as well on her own terms.

I get the impression that Rumple knows that Henry's motives for wanting to work with him are suspect, which is why he'as giving him all the menial jobs.

Snow desperately needs something interesting to do and fast.

Liked that Elsa called everyone out for treating Emma differently without being horrible about it.

I really don't want to lose Elsa as a character now, 8/10

[Rumsy4]

There was also that deleted scene from a few episodes back that said the urn was made of some sort of anti-magic material. I don't think one could practice magic inside of a magic-neutralizing container.

True, but I'm not sure if we can take that as canon. Ah, probably we'll find out only as much as we did about August's typewriter and Pan's drawing of Henry.

[Faemonic]

 

When the three sisters went to Rump and he suggested lessons, and they REFUSED.

 

Well, he is The Dark One. They're smarter than Regina who just believed him when he said, "Turning evil will be entirely up to you... Dearie" all the way up until murdering an innocent unicorn. Or gypsy.

Rewatched the scene with Snow telling David they failed. There's a reaction shot with Hook and I know it's supposed to be him feeling bad and worrying about Emma, but I just see this thought bubble over his head that reads, "Bloody hell. Do you know how much time and effort I put in to get Emma to accept her magic and to believe that this is her home? Five seconds and you've blown that all to hell. Nice work, Snow White."

Yes! Although, Hook seems to have been pushed into the background this season. I wonder if suddenly Ingrid would realize that love interest (i.e., love and light magic trigger) is a threat and so recruited Rumple to do something horrible to Hook. It would make sense, but it wouldn't have been earned because I don't feel like Hook's been allowed to have any real moments with Emma as the supportive lover this season. It'd probably get crammed in the final twenty seconds before he dies, like with Nealfire.

[HeimrArnadalr]

True, but I'm not sure if we can take that as canon. Ah, probably we'll find out only as much as we did about August's typewriter and Pan's drawing of Henry.

It's probably not canon, but at least it shows their original concept for it.

 

However, there is this interview with Elizabeth Mitchell. Minor spoilers for the future, but the relevant part isn't spoilery:

 

[ingrid] killed someone as a kid and then she went and got trapped in an urn for who knows how many years and I kind of made the choice that she was self-aware in there because I wanted there to be a reason for her madness.

So maybe she was able to practice magic... I'm still not sure how one could learn to teleport inside an urn, though.

[Rumsy4]

Ignoring her appearance (was she supposed to look in her 20s or 50s when she was de-Urned by Hans?), it seems that she was inside that Urn for like 20 to 30 years. She was self-aware, according to EM (which may be different from what A&E had in mind, if anything). But I'm going to go with her being in liquid form, and unable to practise magic. But she was probably stewing in anger, had accepted her powers, and was waiting to get out and take revenge on her sister.

 

When she came out of the Urn, she didn't know other forms magic, but her anger may have helped her retain better control of her ice-powers. She no longer wanted to lose her powers, but to use it. She was also manipulating Elsa, so she probably may have lied about building snowmen and ice palaces. She probably lost Elsa's trust after that, and so she caused Elsa to be Urned, and made Anna disappear. Ingrid probably practised her magic and powers in the years following that (maybe she did get trained by Rumple for a bit), got the info about Emma, and came to our world. If she has innate magic that works in the Real World, that would have helped her keep in practice (and collect shards of mirrors for her spell). 

[Camera One]

But I'm going to go with her being in liquid form, and unable to practise magic. But she was probably stewing in anger, had accepted her powers, and was waiting to get out and take revenge on her sister.

 

I can't wait until A&E explains how you can stew in anger in liquid form.  I'm expecting that in one of the flashbacks?  (Just kidding, but it makes me wonder why they needed to be in liquid form in the first place).

[Serena]

I can't wait until A&E explains how you can stew in anger in liquid form.  I'm expecting that in one of the flashbacks?  (Just kidding, but it makes me wonder why they needed to be in liquid form in the first place).

Yes, spoiler alert, one of the flashback will be just a bunch of water boiling for 20 years. Riveting.

[Mari]

Ignoring her appearance (was she supposed to look in her 20s or 50s when she was de-Urned by Hans?), it seems that she was inside that Urn for like 20 to 30 years. She was self-aware, according to EM (which may be different from what A&E had in mind, if anything). But I'm going to go with her being in liquid form, and unable to practise magic. But she was probably stewing in anger, had accepted her powers, and was waiting to get out and take revenge on her sister.

 

 

I can't wait until A&E explains how you can stew in anger in liquid form.  I'm expecting that in one of the flashbacks?  (Just kidding, but it makes me wonder why they needed to be in liquid form in the first place).

To get in and out of genie bottles, the genies were often in "smoke" form.  Once in the bottle, it was a self-contained little room, and you had a bottle.

 

Maybe the urn works like that---you're liquid going in and out, but once in, it's a self-contained little room.  If she was in a little room, she'd maybe be able to practice.

 

What I'm trying to figure out is how come the Snow Queen was self-aware and aged, while Elsa did not age at all, and doesn't seem to have had a lot of time to think while in there.  Maybe the circumstances you went in make a difference?  Or was time in Arendelle "stopped", too, and therefore Urn time was stopped?

[Serena]

Elsa did not have "time" to age. Emma and Hook took her from the time of Snow Falls. Considering Anna met shepard!Charming probably not much earlier than Snow Falls (let's say one year to be generous) it makes sense for her not to age because she traveled through time.

[Shanna Marie]

It's also hard to tell what age Ingrid is supposed to look like at various points since she looks the same when she was urned as she did probably more than 20 years later when she was freed in Arendelle, which is the same as she looks now after spending at least 15 years in our world. So maybe we're supposed to squint and pretend that her present age, 40-something, is accurate, but she was supposed to look about 20 when she was initially urned and when she was freed.

[Rumsy4]

Besides, if Ingrid was in the land without magic for 20 or so years (when did she come to Storybrooke?), she would have aged there. She could have come out of the Urn the same age she went it.

Edited November 15, 2014 by Rumsy4

[Camera One]

What I'm trying to figure out is how come the Snow Queen was self-aware and aged

 

These people are just ageless.  They manage to look like they're 40 when they're 20, and they still look the same when they're 40.

[Camera One]

That's the great thing about hair.  I change it up and I immediately look 20 years younger.

[KingOfHearts]

These people are just ageless. They manage to look like they're 40 when they're 20, and they still look the same when they're 40.

When she was younger, her hair was grayer and pulled back. She actually looked... Older. The wardrobe didn't exactly help, either.

Edited November 16, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[YaddaYadda]

I know the show doesn't really give a shit about certain things, but DQ could have been 40 when she was urned. The ball they were having was for her father's 70th birthday.

[Trek]

If DQ was never de-urned between Greta putting her there and Hans freeing her, even if she was conscious while inside, it still does not explain how she had nifty new spells - like shaking the mountain to get at Anna and then apparating - when she got out of it.

 

Elsa and DQ’s ice abilities are innate, more akin to a mutant (X-men) than witchcraft in its manifestation and application. It was just there and they can use it without knowing a single incantation. However, it was also just that. Ice and snow. They could not cast “earthshaker”, apparate, divinate or use opening charms (the latter two would be required for DQ to even have a clue as to how the box Anna was carrying worked). These then must all have been learned abilities.

 

So unless we are now saying that the Urn’s interior came fully loaded with a spell book library, DQ must have gotten out previously and/or there’s been a big continuity error.

 

Minor nitpick: Also highly unlikely that DQ could use Arendelle soldiers to imprison/guard Anna. She’s just some woman that showed up a week ago spouting claims that is not backed up by any of their memories or written record while Anna was a bona-fide princess that they’ve known and loved for 17 years.

[KingOfHearts]

I've been doing my 4A rewatch. This episode was probably the weakest next to Breaking Glass, both in the present and the past. I'm surprised this episode was written by the showrunners themselves, though I shouldn't be, because of how amateur the overall writing felt. 

 

First scene is the three royal sisters of Arendelle playing together outside with a stolen kite. This wasn't too short of Little House on the Prairie, and certainly was nothing like the "royal gardens" Pabbie spoke of. Why were they all wearing white dresses? Wouldn't they get dirty? Why were there no guards to watch them? We watch Ingrid accidentally killing a man in self-defense, yet her sisters simply justify it and it's never mentioned again. Somehow killing someone with dangerous magic should have been more traumatic to young girls. Ingrid was shaken, but like I said it never comes up. The little actresses recite some cheesy Hallmark-style dialogue and the scene ends.

 

The flashbacks were bland at best. Though I liked how accurate the Duke was portrayed, he didn't make it any more memorable. Ingrid's young self and Helga were both good casting choices as well. This sort of felt like Bleeding Through in that it was mostly about watching characters we've never met and will never see again for the purpose of plot exposition. This was also a story that could have easily been revealed in dialog. It's really not that unpredictable that Ingrid accidentally killed Helga with her magic. Her death was far from tragic for the viewer because of how random she was.

 

Going to the present, the fire candle to trap Ingrid definitely goes on the list of most contrived objects. It doesn't even cater to any particular fairy tale that I know of. They could have achieved the same effect with squid ink or Pandora's Box. It was so sudden and casual that the audience could have easily believed it would fail long before it was even used. Then sure enough, Ingrid simply breaks herself out. It's like she gave them it herself. This episode really does no favors in reflecting the intelligent side of Team Hero. They were all sitting in the palm of the Big Bad's hand solely for the purpose of puffing the storyline up.

 

I won't even delve into the Snow/Emma issues that much because we could make a whole thread about that. I did notice on rewatch that whenever Snow saw Emma's magic, she would look more angry than scared. Maybe this was just a poor acting or directing choice, but it made her look very condescending. It would have been so much better if Snow and Emma could have resolved this through a one-on-one conversation as opposed to action sequences.

Edited February 13, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[YaddaYadda]

I'm surprised this episode was written by the showrunners themselves, though I shouldn't be, because of how amateur the overall writing felt.

 

They wrote 3 episodes; Tale of Two Sisters which I thought was okay, the Snow Queen which was also okay and that horrible Heroes and Villains.  I think A&E are sadists.

 

Why are royal girls running around with no one to watch over them?  I find Helga's death to still be a bit jarring.

 

Honestly, the re-watch for me has fastforwarding through everything Anna because those fairybacks turned out to be 99% irrelevant.