S03.E05: The Secret Origin Of Felicity Smoak

[KirkB]

Of course that means she's also telling Oliver (without him realizing) the same thing applies to Malcolm.

[KenyaJ]

All laughs and jokes aside, something just hit me you guys.

In light of finding out that her previous love might as well have committed suicide for being too committed to his cause, imagine the horror of Oliver choosing to do the same in a more passive and drawn out manner. She already lived through that once and she refused to go through that again and that's good storytelling on the writers' part. That's on point for me.

 

I hadn't even considered it in those terms, but you're so right, and I love this.

 

I also can't fully express my love for their last scene. Oliver tells Felicity he's grateful for the things she's experienced because she wouldn't be the same person without them, and she smiles at him in thanks for the sweet words. But the minute he reminds her that he's in love with her, she is just DONE. The way she immediately walled off and Oliver's "I knew this would happen and I understand why, but damn, it hurts," reaction killed me. They're both so aware that things are different between them. I love that Oliver can't stop himself from telling her (again and again) that he loves her. But I love even more that Felicity doesn't want to hear it. At all. I'm enjoying that dynamic, maybe moreso this week since it was balanced by Oliver being a good friend and support system for her.

 

David Ramsey is comedy gold, he's funnier just by giving looks than 99% of people are by telling jokes. "Who's she gonna tell, Oliver.", he said, moments after I said exactly the same thing to the TV.

 

Hands down, I think DR has the best reactions and reaction shots of anyone on this show. He's so deadpan about it, and it slays me every time. I adore him (and Diggle).

 

I loved this episode so much, even though the plot was daft.  Then again, the plot is always daft on this show, and is thankfully not the reason I watch.  The character interactions really worked this week and finally giving Felicity a home, family, and past was all sorts of fantabulous.  For me, the most enjoyable parts are never the big dramatic action scenes, but rather the little character moments, like Felicity being only on her 5th sit-up instead of her 10th like the TV instructor (before deciding that was good enough).  Loved her pyjamas too.

 

This, so much. Was the plot of last night's episode weak? Yes. But I feel that way about every episode of this show. Thankfully, I don't watch for the plot. I just want it to be a backdrop for seeing the characters interact with each other, and I loved this episode because, for the first time in weeks, the characters interacted with each other in ways that didn't leave me wondering if they'd all be replaced with pods. It was a nice return to form. Hopefully not a temporary one.

[foreverevolving]

Only got to watch the episode late last night so this is like semi late but it's cool i got to sleep on it a bit.

 

Best Episode of the Season (so far)!!!

even KC awful overacting didn't manage to ruin it for me (i pretty much tuned her out and focused on other things in her scenes).

 

Things I like:
- Everything, like Everything!!
- Mama Smoak.. she made me cry and miss my mommy. and just i want her to come and visit more often. my heart plumbed with Felicity's when she said she won the tickets to Starling.. i was like.. yea show that's not obvious it was from the bad guy dude.

- Speaking of moms. I loved the pep talk scenes between Olicity. You could tell Oliver was telling her to go and talk to her mom because he is no longer able to do it with his own.

- Argus sending a person to pick up digglette.. i kind wish it was Deadshot too!

- Felicity back days.

- Oliver saying once again "I love you" in a roundabout way. we all know it's leading to a proper I love you.. hopefully before the season ends. I want season 4 to be Oliver wooing Felicity, I wanna see them going on dinners and watching movies and just hanging out, making out like teenagers but never fully yet crossing that line to third base, Oliver giving it his all and Felicity holding back a bit waiting to see how it turns out. i wanna see them get to know each other in that romantic lovers sense. it will make season 4 watchable (cause we all know by than fakanary is going to have that stupid mask on so.. blah).
- Felicity kicking ass and Oliver just standing on the sideline going all "Must remember never make wifey angry"
- Thea trying to get into the lair and being caught by Oliver. i was half waiting for her to be waiting around the wall and seeing him enter inside.. that would have been a nice way for her suspicious mind that something is going on down there to strengthen. Thea is so going to find out about Oliver=Arrow.  whether its by Oliver telling her, or by snooping around and finding out.. she's suspecting something..
- Thea and Oliver living together. three things: 1) Freakin swanky loft.. can me and my cats move in? i'll be your personal chef guys. 2) Oliver is totally doing it to try and keep an eye on her. 3) so living together... Oliver doesn't think him living and coming back and weird hours is gonna arouse Thea suspicions? oookay.
- what else? Lance yelling at Fakanary.. may have been the #3 moment of the episode for me.
- you know.. Malcolm just standing there watching the queen siblings. Barrowman can light anything on fire with just being there, man doesn't even have to speak and I loved his coat.
- Roy and Diggle in the background, sharing a sort of look and roy gently moving his head, pretty much saying "let's let them be"; nice throwback to the premiere
- I still like Ray. he is a total socially decapitated individual. i think he means well, he grows excited and enthusiastic and that makes him do something most people won't do. I don't know i see where he is coming from so i can't hate him. plus BR is really doing a good job unlike....

 

 

The truly ugly and badish:
- Fakanary, with that being said: i got a tingle of joy when Lance lashed out at her. that was awesome and than he went all sweet fatherly on her and I was trying to keep the glass of scotch I had from coming back up... that stupid red vs. black, i was like of course she's gonna chose black but can we make that she goes for red and you know not make her fakanary? way to smack it over our head show. whatever.
- I can't decide if the reason i can't like Ted is because the actor is bad or because he has scenes with only KC so.. you know. I need to see him interact with someone else for a scene or two and decide.
- Lance still doesn't know but boxer dude does? and that she didn't call the police? I just.. I can't with her anymore. I never knew i could dislike a character so much.. but the hatred for her just continues to grow.

 

 

ETA: I just reread my post...congratulation if you made it this far and it made total sense.

Apparently my grammar and punctuation skills have not yet woken up despite it being noon. Probably best if I won't try to fix it right now.

Edited November 6, 2014 by foreverevolving

[Guest]

Some more thoughts:

 

1) Is it just a coincidence that Cooper's roommate from MIT also ended up in Starling City? Convenient maybe? Or does he have more to do with Brother Eye than meets the, er, eye…?

 

2) Also as Brother Eye is linked to OMAC, will we see a link later on with Ray? I know he was looking at those blueprints of weapons that had something to do with OMAC. I'm definitely interested to see whether that will link up but I don't know if the writers are that forward in their planning tbh.

 

3) One of the things that didn't really work for me in this episode was Cooper's descent to evil villain. In the flashbacks, did he get caught on purpose so he could work for the NSA? Also, why would he suddenly want to kill the woman he claimed to love just because she became 'corporate'? Eh. The motivations were pretty shaky tbh. 

 

4) Still not sure what Malcolm's plans are exactly. When he was watching Thea and Oliver in the apartment I didn't know if it was for sinister 'I've got you where I want you mwah ha ha!' plans or if in his head he's somehow twisting Oliver into Tommy and he wants to be a twisted perfect little family. I don't know but I'm on board I think. John Barrowman is wonderful whatever he does. 

[Password]

Some more thoughts:

 

1) Is it just a coincidence that Cooper's roommate from MIT also ended up in Starling City? Convenient maybe? Or does he have more to do with Brother Eye than meets the, er, eye…?

I also thought it very coincidental (or convenient) that the poor guy that was subjected to seeing his roommates have sex on the regular is now a resident of Starling City. All MIT Computer Science majors must go there after graduating. I would hope that he actually is part of the future plot of the show because otherwise he seemed fairly unnecessary.

 

3) One of the things that didn't really work for me in this episode was Cooper's descent to evil villain. In the flashbacks, did he get caught on purpose so he could work for the NSA? Also, why would he suddenly want to kill the woman he claimed to love just because she became 'corporate'? Eh. The motivations were pretty shaky tbh. 

This, especially after that heart breaking scene in the prison with the tears and ILYs. That scene seemed very genuine from both sides, only for him to apparently hate Felicity and want to hurt her mum. Makes you doubt his love but I think the plot suffered from lack of believable conviction.

 

4) Still not sure what Malcolm's plans are exactly. When he was watching Thea and Oliver in the apartment I didn't know if it was for sinister 'I've got you where I want you mwah ha ha!' plans or if in his head he's somehow twisting Oliver into Tommy and he wants to be a twisted perfect little family. I don't know but I'm on board I think. John Barrowman is wonderful whatever he does.

Oh my word Malcolm thinking Oliver is a Tommy replacement is soooo something that could happen. I actually don't think Malcolm hates him. But Oliver gets in the way sometimes - see the attempted total destruction of The Glades. They really are a totally dysfunctional little family.

[dtissagirl]

That scene with Thea trying the door to the lair, and Oliver giving an explanation saying the basement was flooded? I'm pretty sure that same scene was actually filmed for episode 203 last season, then cut for time. There was a Q&A video last year that Amell posted on Facebook that referenced this exact thing happening around that time. Heh. Only a year later, Arrow!

Edited November 6, 2014 by dancingnancy

[tv echo]

Oh my word Malcolm thinking Oliver is a Tommy replacement is soooo something that could happen. I actually don't think Malcolm hates him. But Oliver gets in the way sometimes - see the attempted total destruction of The Glades. They really are a totally dysfunctional little family.

You may be interested in this JB interview which provides insights into what Malcolm thinks of Oliver:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/arrows-john-barrowman-season-3-744480

[Guest]

I also thought it very coincidental (or convenient) that the poor guy that was subjected to seeing his roommates have sex on the regular is now a resident of Starling City. All MIT Computer Science majors must go there after graduating. I would hope that he actually is part of the future plot of the show because otherwise he seemed fairly unnecessary.

 

Yeah, I mean, I guess it's not too hard to believe because when you graduate you go where the jobs are and maybe Starling City was already his home before he went to MIT. It's just awfully convenient unless he's part of something bigger but I think I may be giving the writers too much credit there. 

 

This, especially after that heart breaking scene in the prison with the tears and ILYs. That scene seemed very genuine from both sides, only for him to apparently hate Felicity and want to hurt her mum. Makes you doubt his love but I think the plot suffered from lack of believable conviction.

 

I can understand Cooper being annoyed/angry/disappointed that this amazing hacker is using her skills for corporate instead of all the good he thinks she can do. But to go from that to wanting to kill her? Huh?! I would have believed it more if Felicity had actually made him take the fall for her crimes instead of him choosing to do it. That would be better motivation for murder but I suppose I can't question this too much given the history of motivation on this show. 

 

Oh my word Malcolm thinking Oliver is a Tommy replacement is soooo something that could happen. I actually don't think Malcolm hates him. But Oliver gets in the way sometimes - see the attempted total destruction of The Glades. They really are a totally dysfunctional little family.

 

Well, I've just read a couple of quotes from JB about his thoughts on Malcolm and how he sees Oliver and it certainly seems that he's putting Oliver into the Tommy role. And he's got a twisted enough sense of logic that he could believe he's finally going to have a family with Thea and Oliver living together. I don't know whether it's part of a larger game plan though. There's definitely more to this but I just can't figure it out. 

Edited November 6, 2014 by Guest

[Password]

Thanks @tv echo. You know Malcolm is an interesting one. I liked that JB pointed out that he doesn't think about the consequences of killing someone he deems must die. Seeing as Oliver doesn't kill anymore, if Malcolm goes around killing MORE people it will create an interesting dilemma for Oliver because he's protecting him. Or rather killing Malcolm isn't an option so Malcolm will probably take advantage of that. Merlyn is one of those characters, much like Moira who's secrets always keep you intrigued and never make them repetitive.

[Password]

I can understand Cooper being annoyed/angry/disappointed that this amazing hacker is using her skills for corporate instead of all the good he thinks she can do. But to go from that to wanting to kill her? Huh?! I would have believed it more if Felicity had actually made him take the fall for her crimes instead of him choosing to do it. That would be better motivation for murder but I suppose I can't question this too much given the history of motivation on this show. 

The irony is he doesn't know that she IS fighting for the good now and using her skills to make Starling safer. Felicity may well have seen Oliver's opportunity to help out as a way to correct what was wrong. Choosing to be a hero to honour her former love. She must have lived with such guilt at thinking he killed himself.

[Pyramid]

Well living in Scotland I'm always late to the party and everyone has already said everything there is to say, won't stop me though!

 

To begin: A plea to the insane-o-naut, tell your father that Sara is dead, please. He might evenbe able to help. Yeesh.

Also, she picked black, *wink, wink*, because, you know, Black Canary. Not Red Canary, no, no. Black Canary. That was a foreshadow. Let's see what the Oxford Online Dictionary has to say about foreshadowing:

Foreshadow: verb: A warning or indication of a future event. See also, anvil.

 

And now that is out the way, this was the best episode for ages! I really liked it. Sure there were daft bits like Oliver v e r y  s l o w l y dodging motion controlled machine guns, but who cares! Loved everything the Smoak woman chose to be here. There interactions were everything I was hoping for. The scene where Ma Smoak was saying she sees none of her in Felicity was genuinely moving.

Felicity as a goth is really very hot indeed. Very hot. Indeed.

As someone noted above the "you know how I fee about her" scene was very well played particularly the way Felicity shut down the minute he said it.

I loved Olivers reaction to meeting Felicity's mum. He was like a wee boy seeing a chance to pull the pigtails of a girl he likes. And Diggle, was golden once again. "Who's she going to tell" Ha!

Ray improved in this episode for me, slightly. Still thought his turning up unannounced and just walking in was like wtf?

Part of me doesn't want Roy at the end to be a fake-out, I think it could open up some really interesting conflicts.

 

So Laurel barking orders at whoever is in front of her and being an incompetent is actually a writing choice. I'm at a loss there I really am.

 

And finally, Felicity saved herself, and her mum. Awesome. Loved. It.

[catrox14]

Loved the opening sequence. It was spooky and effective. And IMO cinematic with a fantastic music cue. It really felt like the Arrow I've loved and missed.

EBR was just fantastic throughout. I loved Oliver grinning like an idiot at mama Smock. I loved the little slip about how he still feels about Felicity. I'm so glad he's not being wishy-washy about his feelings even if he's not making a move to be with her right now. I also loved that she tried to ignore it.

Laurel just needs to stop. Or someone needs to stop her on this vengeance quest. Learning to box is not going to help her against arrows, bullets, and actual trained martial artists. And really she still doesn't tell her father that his baby girl is dead. Is she planning to wait until Lance is on his death bed? Horrible. And she definitely needs some training on her skills as an adhoc manager. Bossy Canary, indeed.

Really loved the shot of Malcolm surreptitiously gazing upon his daughter and Oliver. I thought JB gave off a compelling blend of sinister and longing. I don't think Malcolm ever hated Oliver. I thought he always wanted Tommy to be more like Oliver but that was because he probably idealized who Oliver was vs knowing what Oliver was really like pre- Island. And I think he admires who Oliver is becoming in a way, even if he wants vengeance. I'm feeling some nice Lionel Luther vibes.

Edited November 6, 2014 by catrox14

[foreverevolving]

FYI Tommy!

Name mentioned once again (twice if I am not mistaken). Seriously, I think we heard Tommy's name more times in the past 5 episodes than we did the entire of season 2.

It's starting to look, sound and walk like an Anvil to me. i'm preparing myself emotionally either way.

ETA: also, if we think about episode 2 for a second, in it Tommy is led to believe Oliver is truly dead.. when in fact he isn't... maybe i should move this to the spoiler thread..

Edited November 6, 2014 by foreverevolving

[Guest]

Part of me doesn't want Roy at the end to be a fake-out, I think it could open up some really interesting conflicts.

 

Even if it is a fake-out (highly likely because it's only episode 5 and there's no way they're revealing the killer yet) I think it will open up some conflict anyway. It seems like Roy might finally learn that he killed that cop and I'm guessing he'll be pretty mad to find out he's been lied to this whole time. Not just by Oliver but by the whole team. They're going to have some real trust issues, at least that's my impression. I could be wrong!

The irony is he doesn't know that she IS fighting for the good now and using her skills to make Starling safer. Felicity may well have seen Oliver's opportunity to help out as a way to correct what was wrong. Choosing to be a hero to honour her former love. She must have lived with such guilt at thinking he killed himself.

 

Good point. Actually, if Cooper's good enough to track her down to Starling City, surely he could track how she's working for the Arrow. 

[calliope1975]

I think I can see Palmer as both a socially inept workaholic genius and a sorta creepster with stalkery tendencies at the same time. What throws me off every time with him is 1. the crazy eyes and 2. the fact that he looks and sounds like he's hopped on 23 straight up Red Bulls.

 

I think I agree with this the most. His stalkery behaviors aren't coming from a place of maliciousness but the intense crazy eyes scare me. I do see the charming absent minded genius there going for but BR needs to dial it down a notch. And if this does go romantic (ugh), he's going to have to learn how to phone/text before he shows up everywhere.

 

When the first clip of Goth!Felicity was released, I actually thought the roommate was going to be the villain because of some weird close-ups he got so I'm wondering if we'll be seeing him again. 

 

Did Oliver disappear off the balcony when he left Thea's? He left the door to the patio open. Maybe yell out a goodbye or use the door if you don't want to arouse suspicions, Oliver.

[Password]

Even if it is a fake-out (highly likely because it's only episode 5 and there's no way they're revealing the killer yet) I think it will open up some conflict anyway. It seems like Roy might finally learn that he killed that cop and I'm guessing he'll be pretty mad to find out he's been lied to this whole time. Not just by Oliver but by the whole team. They're going to have some real trust issues, at least that's my impression. I could be wrong!

 

It probably depends on the person, but if I found out I killed someone I'd be too far down self flagellation avenue to be worrying about who lied to me. It's such an enormously terrible thing that someone keeping it from me would be the least of my concerns. At the end of the day, not knowing is a form of escapism.

 

Maybe Roy is calmer after the (understandable) hissy he threw when Oliver let him down in season 2, or because Arrow can be drama filled they'll play up the "you lied to me" angle...again.

[QueenTiye]

Brother Eye is a DC Universe reference: http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Brother_Eye

[Morrigan2575]

FYI Tommy!

Name mentioned once again (twice if I am not mistaken). Seriously, I think we heard Tommy's name more times in the past 5 episodes than we did the entire of season 2.

It's starting to look, sound and walk like an Anvil to me. i'm preparing myself emotionally either way.

ETA: also, if we think about episode 2 for a second, in it Tommy is led to believe Oliver is truly dead.. when in fact he isn't... maybe i should move this to the spoiler thread..

When was Tommy mentioned in this episode?

[KirkB]

Unless I'm mistaken he wasn't mentioned by name but Oliver did say "your brother" when he was talking to Felicity about Malcolm's money, which led her to go off on how no HE was her brother.

[Morrigan2575]

Thanks, I did remember the brother comment but I thought they were talking about Tommy being mentioned by name.

[TVHappy9463]

Very satisfying episode. The x-boyfriend being behind it was pretty obvious, but that was small compared to all the character development we got last night.  Felicity and her mom are fantastic, Charlotte Ross is really one heck of an actress.  Watching how the character progressed from the first entrance to the last, and seeing her face change as her "bubbly" mask came off.  

Brandan Routh's character was also laying some major hints at his story line last night.  And as much as I ship Olicity, I could get into him being paired with Felicity. And I hope he is around for more than one season.  

Nice Thea and Ollie stuff.  Do you think she knows Merlyn is watching, do you think he told her to ask Ollie to move in? Is she going to double cross Ollie? 

What is it about a big strong man holding a baby. I loves me some Diggle as a daddy.  And loved no flashback to China.  

and finally I think the Roy thing at the end is a fake out.  Wasn't there the whole blue flower hallucinogen with the league of shadows in Batman.  I think he is under the influence.   

Quick prediction, Merlyn killed Sara, and someone ( Laurel, Ollie, Thea will have to kill him) setting up a whole lot of drama.  

[Jessie2009]

I can't post a link off of my phn but according to articles last nights episode got the highest ratings since 3x01 and it looks like it got pretty high in the demos too

[Password]

I really hoped Cooper's name wasn't actually going to be Cooper Sheldon but...we can't get everything we want.

[foreverevolving]

I can't post a link off of my phn but according to articles last nights episode got the highest ratings since 3x01 and it looks like it got pretty high in the demos too

According to SmoaknArrow on tumblr these are the final ratings for the previous episodes:

 

Right now, TV Series Finale is reporting the episode had 2.62 million viewers with a 1.0 in the 18/49 demo.

 

To quickly recap the finalized ratings for prior episodes:

S3E4: The Magician - 2.49/1.0

S3E3: Corto Maltese - 2.55/0.9

S3E2: Sara - 2.32/0.8

S3E1: The Calm - 2.83/1.0

Edited November 6, 2014 by foreverevolving

[NumberCruncher]

In the Arrow After show, they talked about the weak villain but he made a really good point: You can have a weak villain if you center the story around a strong character and thats what they did.

Exactly this. I think a lot of the people who weren't so keen on the episode felt that way because the plot really wasn't tying into the big Ra's/LoA narrative of this season. In fact, John Campea flat-out said that in the aftershow you reference. There's a good portion of the audience that simply doesn't enjoy the villain-of-the-week standalone episodes so I can see why this wouldn't be a favorite for them. Personally, it's just the opposite for me. I enjoy the arc episodes, but I need to have a break from them on a fairly regular basis because they usually are the most depressing and melodramatic. The X-Files was particularly good at balancing mytharc versus monster-of-the-week-episodes (at least up until the last few seasons). I'd like to see Arrow get to that point too. Balance is good.

[Chaser]

They were actually really positive about the episode. It was the favorite so far for one of them and John said that he finished the episode with a smile on his face. And everyone loves Felicity. The only thing I disagreed with was how much they talked about Ray and the Ray/Felicity relationship (they are big fans). They didn't talk at all about the Oliver and Felicity moments, which I thought were much more important.

 

This episode was interesting Ray wise for me. I have never been a fan of a romance between Ray and Felicity. Mostly for story reasons, but also because I don't see Ray as a 'romantic' character. I can't imagine him in a relationship. He is like that guy who pencils you in to his daybook because his focus is always going to be on something else. I am not sure I can really explain it.

 

I loved that this episode was a monster of the week feel. Those are actually some of my favorites. I think it could him been done better for sure. I think they miscasted the ex-boyfriend. He was too Glee for me.

[NumberCruncher]

They were actually really positive about the episode. It was the favorite so far for one of them and John said that he finished the episode with a smile on his face. And everyone loves Felicity. The only thing I disagreed with was how much they talked about Ray and the Ray/Felicity relationship (they are big fans). They didn't talk at all about the Oliver and Felicity moments, which I thought were much more important.

I got the impression they liked the idea of Ray/Felicity so much because they love Felicity. They mentioned that it would be nice to see her find some happiness after all of the complexity and pain of Barry and Oliver and not necessarily because they think the pairing is perfect or "OMG! CHEMISTRY!". After watching all the other aftershows, I don't get the impression that John & co. are the 'shipper types anyway so the lack of any Olicity mentions didn't surprise me in the least.

I'm with John though...this episode left me with a smile on my face too. That's something I haven't had after watching any episode since the premiere (well at least the first 59 minutes).

Edited November 6, 2014 by NumberCruncher

[Password]

I thoroughly enjoy villain of the week episodes because I don't think the Arrow writers are talented enough to write season long arcs. I don't think there's anything wrong with incorporating character development into villain of the week episodes, because at the end of the day I don't watch for the plot. I watch for my characters reacting to the plot.

 

I think Ray grants Felicity a reprieve in this insanely fast life she's chosen. When he's not making me ignore things I generally wouldn't be, he's light and understanding and seriously does Felicity actually work because she's always off. It was strange to me that Felicity went to Queen Consolidated to get some mental space. Now, this is probably for plot purposes to get her and Ray to talk, but it seemed ironic that Queen Consolidated has become her escape from Oliver and life when this whole thing started with a Queen's terrible lies. More than anything, Felicity's interaction with Ray makes me yearn for a friend for her. A friend who can get her mind off everything and she can just talk and talk and talk to. Perhaps that's what they're going for, and seeing as friendship is an excellent basis for relationships, why not. But more than a LI for Felicity I want someone whom she can just let it all out with. Sigh. On I go.

[SmallScreenDiva]

OK, morning after and I'm still loving this ep, even though there are a few things that made me facepalm and go "Oh, show." But in this ep, the good most definitely outweighed the bad.

 

 

Anyway, Ray in Felicity's apartment. This guy definitely has no boundaries, and I don't have a problem with that, so far. I buy it as part of his character, a bit of a steamroller. I don't think you can become a billionaire by being gentle. I don't think it's creepy or stalker-y at all. But then again, I never equated his pursuit of Felicity as an employee as that of a stalker. As for Felicity, if she really were uncomfortable, she would have shown him the door. But the moment he started talking about cogeneration, she was intrigued and on board and even got comfortable on the sofa.

 

The meeting with Mama Smoak was awesome and I actually enjoyed the sort of sotto voce comments Ray was making about Felicity being really friendly with the neighbors, then the confused “Mom?” and finally “Were you adopted?” or something like that. EBR’s reaction during that whole exchange is priceless.

 

Just curious: Was Diggle out for a stroll with baby Sara and decided to head to the lair when Brother Eye started terrorizing the city? Or was he already headed to the lair? No car? Or maybe they really do park very far away from the lair to avoid suspicion. I’m overthinking this, right?

 

 

Mama Smoak meeting Oliver and Diggle was perfect and the whole bit with the baby is probably the funniest scene of the ep. It’s the small things that make it perfect: David Ramsey’s face, his delivery, even just the quick look at Sara and then at Oliver. To be fair, I think Oliver’s concern might actually have to do with the fact the lair has a lot of dangerous objects — arrows, for example. Though he’s really not taking into account that the baby is not even crawling yet.

 

 

BTW, I never noticed these before but Roy and Oliver’s arrows apparently are color-coded. I saw this when they shot tear gas arrows at the bank rioters. One had a narrow red band, the other a green one. Oh, and they were doing a lot of synchronized action tonight with the shooting of the arrows and the motorcycles.

 

 

Speaking of action, how awesome was this stunt? I actually was more impressed by it than the automated machine gun sequence.

 

I still think Felicity’s line about not being able to stop the virus because it was hers was weird. The scene would have worked fine without it. And then later they could have had her say it’s been altered that she couldn’t stop it. Would have made more sense, I think.

 

 

Like many you, I got a bit of a whiplash when Cooper decided to kill Felicity. I really bought their prison scene and thought there really was love there. His motivation — money — seemed rather weak, though. But it’s one of those things I can handwave because the rest of the ep was great. I will just bask in seeing Miss Smoak pistol-whipping a bad guy.

 

Mama Smoak and Felicity fighting — When Felicity said something about not dressing like a porn star, I thought that was a low blow. It was definitely out of line, but it wasn’t out of character at that point in time. Felicity tends to lash out when she’s under stress, plus you get the sense this is something she’s kept inside for a really long time and it’s finally boiling over. Their fight felt real. I imagine a lot of women have had those conversations with their mothers.

 

 

This episode for me illustrated how much Oliver and Felicity’s relationship has changed since the premiere, and Oliver’s stiffness around her in the past episodes makes more sense to me now. When she was almost hyperventilating telling them about the virus and he went “Relax, take a deep breath,” in the past, he would have taken hold of her hands or her shoulder to comfort her. He did step closer, and for a moment there they were back in the old “invading each other’s space” territory. But that scene at the end when he tells Felicity “You know how I feel about [the person she is now]” and she looks away and then says she’s heading out, poor guy knew he made a mistake. Felicity appears to be pretending the date, the explosion, the kiss never happened. That’s why she can still kind of joke around him. In her mind she kind of reset their relationship back to before the date. But the moment she’s reminded Oliver loves her, she is hurt all over again. I think Oliver knows this and that why he was really careful around her before to the point he got all stiff and awkward in dealing with her.

Edited November 6, 2014 by SmallScreenDiva

[SonofaBiscuit]

^Haha, the lady's shoe flies off when Oliver tackles her onto the car hood.

[thuganomics85]

Ha, thanks for the gif of Diggle during that line.  David Ramsey is perfect with these types of shots.  You could totally see Diggle was just like "Christ, Oliver.  How paranoid can you get?", when he said that.  I really want more of that Diggle.  Or, really, any Diggle.

[Actionmage]

This is from the recap:

 

That virus looked a bit like the Eye of Sauron, but that's not the DC Universe.

 

I respectfully disagree. While the visual was Sauron-y, It and/or the criminal ex called it Brother Eye (http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Brother_Eye_(New_Earth)).

 

edited: rom and from = different words. eta: uh...just backing up, what Queen Tiye said. Yeah. *g*

Edited November 6, 2014 by Actionmage

[CarBe]

Easily my favorite episode this season and top 5 overall for me. I loved Felicity's more natural, less lipsticky look. I am happy Oliver dropped his mean tone towards her, but really loved that Felicity didn't fall for his "and you know how I feel about her" line. Words are cheap, Oliver, and Felicity knows this. You'll need to do more to let her give you another chance. I liked Felicity's mom more than I thought I would but only enough to see her every few episodes. I am a bit tired of seeing Dig's baby every episode. I also have major loft envy for Thea's new place. I also loved that Felicity isn't a martial arts ninja like everyone else on the show but was still able to save herself from the bad guy.

I wonder if Ray's not respecting boundaries and popping into Felicity's life is how the writers think hackers act. I mean, we don't officially 'know' this based on watching Arrow alone, but Felicity did a similar thing to Barry last week on Flash. She traveled 600 miles to show up unannounced at Barry's place of work on Flash, and this was after they had last seen each other over 9 months ago. If someone did that to you in real life, lots of red flags would be going up. I think they are trying to portray Ray as a manic energy genius who is excited he finally has run across someone as smart as himself to bounce ideas off of and who can really 'get' him. For now, I am buying him as benign and a force for good.

I know I'm in the minority but I ship Raylicity pretty hard and like the two geniuses bonding rapport building between the two. Even if nothing happens between them I kind of like they are building a quirky sort of friendship. As for Ray, Felicity is dropping lots of breadcrumbs in front of him about her whole secret life that I hope is paying off for an interesting confrontation down the line - the OMAC weapons blue prints a couple of episodes ago, phone calls about hacking people in front of him, Felicity crying in her office about inventing something important that went wrong right after a major cyber-terror attack. Ray also gave Felicity a hard look when Mama Smoak mentions she had been waiting for Felicity for 2 hours. However, I do hope this is the last we see Felicity cry in front of him (and Oliver for that matter) for a long while and she gets a little better about showing up for work.

As for Laurel, I fast forwarded through all her scenes. She cannot be written off too soon for me. I loved the Roy reveal at the end. I did not see that coming. I also couldn't tell whether Malcolm was pleased or not with Oliver moving in with Thea but I love that Malcom and Thea are back in this season. If only they could bring Moira and Tommy back to life.

[Guest]

This episode was interesting Ray wise for me. I have never been a fan of a romance between Ray and Felicity. Mostly for story reasons, but also because I don't see Ray as a 'romantic' character. I can't imagine him in a relationship. He is like that guy who pencils you in to his daybook because his focus is always going to be on something else. I am not sure I can really explain it.

 

You've put into words exactly what I was feeling. It's no secret that I don't like Ray but this episode especially I found myself thinking how he and Felicity might look being romantic together and I could not picture it at all. I definitely think the set up is better if they remain professional and I'm all for them being friends because he is on the same intellectual level as Felicity and sometimes that's important. But romance? It's beyond me. Can't see it at all.

Edited November 6, 2014 by Guest

[tv echo]

What do you think happened to Cooper at the end?  They never did say.  Did he go to federal prison or did Oliver ship him off to ARGUS' island prison?

 

I'm curious as to whether all that techno babble (co-generation, asymmetric blah, blah, blah) makes sense to the computer savvy, or whether that stuff is just made up by the writers.  Just about all of it went whooshing right over my head.  I think the only thing I understood was wi-fi.

[catrox14]

I am happy Oliver dropped his mean tone towards her, but really loved that Felicity didn't fall for his "and you know how I feel about her" line. Words are cheap, Oliver, and Felicity knows this

 

I don't think THOSE words are cheap coming out of Oliver's mouth. He doesn't say those things easily as far as I can tell. And the fact that he hasn't waffled since he told her loved her in  "Unthinkable" tells me he's serious but also still thinking he can't be with her. And he is so twitterpated that he can't not let it show even when he tries. It's a lovely thing IMO. That said, I think that Felicity needs to continue to live her own life outside of what Oliver may or may not feel or say.  It's a tough spot for both of them. 

Edited November 6, 2014 by catrox14

[Chicago Redshirt]

3) One of the things that didn't really work for me in this episode was Cooper's descent to evil villain. In the flashbacks, did he get caught on purpose so he could work for the NSA? Also, why would he suddenly want to kill the woman he claimed to love just because she became 'corporate'? Eh. The motivations were pretty shaky tbh. 

 

Cooper got caught for his hacktivism and from what I gathered someone at the NSA thought that he was awesome and recruited him. To cover their tracks, they faked his death. But while he still all had his revolutionary hacktivist beliefs. If you're extreme enough to do the sorts of things that he was doing, I could see perceiving going corporate instead of changing the world as an extreme betrayal.

[CarBe]

Yes, so he said again, in so many words, he loves her. So what? He hasn't DONE anything to demonstrate he isn't still going to die in his cave, that he also wants MORE from life, as Felicity has decided she does. He was just dangling more maybes, keeping her on the hook, and she was having none of it. Maybe his moving in with Thea is a step in that direction but as of right now, and we're only five episodes into the season so of course not, we haven't seen a lot of change from him. That is what I mean by his words were cheap. They need to be backed up by action.

[Moya the Leviathan]

Could boss Ray be her half brother? 'Cause, ya know, that's how they roll on Arrow.

A comic book trope if ever there was one, but Felicity puts the F in feminist girl ass-kicking and brain power, so it is permitted.

 

 

These 2 caps just made me LOL

 

 

All laughs and jokes aside, something just hit me you guys.

It's (not at all) official guys.  There MUST BE a VERY SPECIAL HANNUKAH episode in Arrow's future.  One where Quentin compliments Mama Smoake's latkes, which are just awful because she always had to work a shift at the cocktail lounge that night; where Ray completely misses that Laurel is trying to put moves on yet another Starling City billionaire; manny Deadshot brings along a bottle of Nocking Point to the party, Felicity gives John an eyemask and hoodie of his very own; Sara gets a superhero onesie; Thea and Oliver give out gelt to everyone; and Roy turns out to know lyrics for eight different Hannukah songs and promptly sings them all in a lovely tenor voice.  Then, yes, Felicity's father storms into the apartment and reveals that Ray is his son, and he's been working with Lyla Michaels and Amanda Waller on an OMAC project.

[pootlus]

I'm curious as to whether all that techno babble (co-generation, asymmetric blah, blah, blah) makes sense to the computer savvy, or whether that stuff is just made up by the writers.  Just about all of it went whooshing right over my head.  I think the only thing I understood was wi-fi.

 

They picked a few words that do actually mean something, used them completely incorrectly, and then made up a whole bunch of other stuff.  It was painful.  Probably why I didn't actually enjoy those scenes (paper thin reveal of future villain aside).

[catrox14]

Yes, so he said again, in so many words, he loves her. So what? He hasn't DONE anything to demonstrate he isn't still going to die in his cave, that he also wants MORE from life, as Felicity has decided she does. He was just dangling more maybes, keeping her on the hook, and she was having none of it. Maybe his moving in with Thea is a step in that direction but as of right now, and we're only five episodes into the season so of course not, we haven't seen a lot of change from him. That is what I mean by his words were cheap. They need to be backed up by action.

 

For me the difference is that Oliver was not saying that to manipulate her or dangle a maybe. It just popped out and he immediately regretted it. I don't think he has any intentions of trying to string her along. And at the same time I will not begrudge Oliver his true feelings of love for her. And it's not like he's stalking her (hi Ray) or trying to convince her to do or not do something.  He let a true feeling in a moment slip through.

[shapeshifter]

Is Ray supposed to resemble movie Superman?

Random on-going irritation - I realise Oliver always grabs his bow for TV Dramatic Purposes whenever he says "Let's suit up", but it really annoys me.  How (and why) is he going to put on that whole complicated leather outfit while holding his bow?

LOL! And just last night I finally thought about: When he's hanging his suit back up--does he get it dry cleaned at a super secret dry cleaners? Or is the locked case to keep the sweat funk from making the lair stink?

1) Is it just a coincidence that Cooper's roommate from MIT also ended up in Starling City? Convenient maybe? Or does he have more to do with Brother Eye than meets the, er, eye…?

 

2) Also as Brother Eye is linked to OMAC, will we see a link later on with Ray? I know he was looking at those blueprints of weapons that had something to do with OMAC. I'm definitely interested to see whether that will link up but I don't know if the writers are that forward in their planning tbh....

So Oliver/Arrow shoots arrows through some very expensive monitors (shouldn't he have aimed for the towers? Dramatics, I guess. See grabbing arrow reference above), then the ex-roomate of Goth Hacktivist Felicity quickly explains he cannot be responsible for the city-wide electrical outage. Shouldn't Ollie have at least said, "Whoops"? I hope ex-roomie is working for the bad guys so good guys don't have to pay for new monitors. Not sure whether insurance covers vigilante arrows.

[KenyaJ]

What do you think happened to Cooper at the end?  They never did say.  Did he go to federal prison or did Oliver ship him off to ARGUS' island prison?

 

LOL. He held a gun to wifey's throat and there was the potential he could menace her in the future. He's sharing meals with Slade for sure.

Edited November 6, 2014 by KenyaJ

[foreverevolving]

LOL. He held a gun to wifey's throat and there was the potential he could menace her in the future. He's sharing meals with Slade for sure.

Or Deadshot and Harley.

[Agent Dark]

Hmm, interesting reveal with Brother Eye now being in play.  Brother Eye is super-bad-news in the DC Universe - comic book spoilers:

I'm thinking back to the lead-up to the Infinite Crisis event back in the mid 2000's, where Brother Eye (which was a super advanced AI and spy satellite network that Batman himself had created) fell into the wrong hands and was used to turn Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman against each other and basically breakup the Justice League. Then it went rogue and attacked everyone.

Particularly with Ra's al Ghul in the mix now, since it was The Tower of Babel storyline where Ras managed to hack into the Batcave computers and steal all Batman's intel and plans to incapacitate the rest of the Justice Leage if needed, that Batman had gathered by using Brother Eye to spy on the Justice League.

The other thing I was wondering about is whether Felicity's ex was going to be a version of The Calculator. If Felicity is basically Arrow's version of Oracle, then her own nemesis is her supervillian counterpart in The Calculator. He's basically a super-hacker just like Oracle, but who instead charges his talents out to various super-villians. That seemed pretty inline with what Felicity's ex was doing.

Edited November 6, 2014 by Agent Dark

[AnalyzeAndCritique]

I finally figured out one of the reasons I dislike Ray. He is the guy who walks into a room talking. He doesn't take stock of what is happening in the room. He barges in like what he says is the most important thing. I  used to work for a woman like this. She was a fake Southern belle. She might have been from the South but her bitch streak was anything but southern charm and her narcissism was choke-inducing. She entered a room speaking because whatever she had to say was more important in her mind than anything anyone else had to say. Even in meetings she'd listen to others because she had to corporate manners dictated it.

 

The social ineptness did work for Barry because he was geeky and nerdy, but endearing. Ray is as far as I can tell supposed to be true LI potential. He is trying for 007 but it isn't coming out like that. He isn't charismatic enough nor suave enough for a female to ignore his social faux pas. He isn't nerdy enough for it to be a quirk. He needs a Booth belt buckle thing or something to give him a unique attribute. The emphasis seems to be on well-dressed successful billionaire. 

Edited November 6, 2014 by AnalyzeAndCritique

[Slovenly Muse]

Loved this episode so, so much. Felicity is the best!

 

Cooper:

A very thin villain indeed. Here is my head canon: He gets arrested and is approached right away by the NSA, who assume he created the virus. Thinking he's about to get a huge break, he tells Felicity when she comes to see him that he's taking the blame for it, when really he knows he's being recruited and is actually trying to take the CREDIT for it and leave her in the dust. Only when he starts doing the work, it turns out to be a miserable, horrifying experience. And since he credits Felicity with making it happen for him, he comes to resent her for it. And when he checks in on her and sees her being happy and successful and acquainted with multiple billionaires who adore her (when she was supposed to be eating his dust), he decides to target Starling and take out his rage and frustration on her and her family. Seeing her as a "corporate pawn" who valued money, he decided to one-up her by stealing more than she could earn before killing her. That's my made-up story and I'm sticking to it!

 

And poor Felicity, carrying that death around on her conscience for all those years. No wonder she gave up the goth look. Nothing like real tragedy and pain to make the goth scene look hollow.

 

Ray:

I think I see what they're trying to do here. Ray isn't supposed to be creepy and stalkerish. He's supposed to be weirdly energized and socially awkward in nearly the exact same way that Felicity is. To show that they are very similar, that they think the same way and have the same boundary and social quirks. The first time we saw his "crazy eyes" when he'd had too much coffee, it reminded me exactly of how Felicity acts when she's all keyed up and working on a problem. He has her exact same habit of walking into someone else's space and beginning a conversation with them before noticing way too late that they're in the middle of something else, or not alone, or not in a state to discuss the issue at hand. While EBR makes this totally endearing, it doesn't work quite as well on Ray, possibly because he's a man, and her boss, and there are different power dynamics at play in their relationship. But I think it is intended to demonstrate to us that he respects her, and that the two are birds of a feather. (Half-siblings? Wouldn't surprise me, actually.)

 

Laurel:

Ok, I see where this is going. I thought this was a much more successful episode for Laurel's story than the previous ones, because the fact that she's making terrible decisions is now acknowledged in a very clear way. Before, when she was making terrible decisions, I honestly couldn't tell if the writers expected me to cheer her on while she was, say, taking a baseball bat to a suspected abuser. Or, when everyone was telling her not to go down the path of vigilantism, if I was supposed to be saying, "Screw what they think, Laurel! Get down with your bad self!" And supposed to be thinking that if only she trained more and got some bad-ass fighting skills that she really would be great at heroism. That is not a thought I was likely to have, with what I had been seeing. And so it was really hard to get into her storyline. I finally feel like the writers are INTENDING to make us feel icky about her decisions, and make her look like a lousy candidate for heroism, and that they are actually in control of her story after all, and it's not just a trainwreck in progress. Also, I'm hoping that her telling Ted about Sara's death was a sort of, um, trial run. You know, telling something huge to a near-stranger when there are low stakes as a sort of warm-up for telling the person who really matters to you? Because if she's worried about her father's health, it's clear that she's actually stressing him out and negatively affecting his heath with her inexplicable behaviour. It's a travesty that she hasn't told him yet. But since I'm finally starting to sense that I'm supposed to feel this way about it, I'll reserve judgment and let things play out.

 

And... I kinda hate to bring this up, but was anyone else a little uncomfortable seeing Digg in a ski mask? Like, all the white characters get cool high-tech specially-designed heroic eye masks, but the one African-American character is put in a mask that is stereotypically associated with thuggish/criminal behaviour? I thought it was a bit tone-deaf on the part of wardrobe, but I may be overthinking it. I get that Digg is not out on the street kicking ass the way Oliver and Roy (and Barry) are (and Sara was), and that he would be more practical and less fancy about hiding his identity, but still, it rubbed me wrong.

 

I can't remember the last time I had so much fun watching Arrow. Donna was great. Felicity was great. So much to love.

[Morrigan2575]

Dig's worn a ski mask before. In fact Dig, Oliver, Sara and Felicity all wore ski masks last year when they blew up Applied Sciences.

[shapeshifter]

...I kinda hate to bring this up, but was anyone else a little uncomfortable seeing Digg in a ski mask? Like, all the white characters get cool high-tech specially-designed heroic eye masks, but the one African-American character is put in a mask that is stereotypically associated with thuggish/criminal behaviour? I thought it was a bit tone-deaf on the part of wardrobe, but I may be overthinking it....

I was similarly wondering if the reason Diggle was the only one not in a hood was because of a desire to avoid any Trevon Martin associations--either as a victim or otherwise.

[Slovenly Muse]

 

Dig's worn a ski mask before. In fact Dig, Oliver, Sara and Felicity all wore ski masks last year when they blew up Applied Sciences.

 

Yeah, but that time they were ALL wearing ski masks together, and it was because they were doing something super shady. They were all being sketchy together and wearing the same thing. Can't they all be heroic together too? Everyone else who does good outside of the lair has a "doing good" mask, is what I'm saying.

 

Yes, I know, I'm probably overthinking it, and it even makes sense for the character! But for some reason it gave me a short, sharp feeling of "I'm not okay with this." Maybe I'll take it to a different thread. I don't want to derail anything.

 

ETA:

 

I was similarly wondering if the reason Diggle was the only one not in a hood was because of a desire to avoid any Trevon Martin associations--either as a victim or otherwise.

That does make sense... Although I'm not sure "ski mask" was the solution to that problem! It's very possible it was calculated, though, you're right.

Edited November 6, 2014 by Slovenly Muse