Current Plots Discussion: Actually Today's Episode

[nilyank]

Quote

Sami never offered to sleep with EJ.  EJ told Sami if she didn't have sex with him, he wouldn't lift the beam off of Lucas, and the entire time EJ had a gun to Sami's head.

I didn't say that she offered to sleep with him. She offered to help EJ slip past the roadblock if he would save Lucas. That's it. After they got past the roadblock, EJ refused to do what he promised her. He then demanded that she would sleep with and the only reason that she did not fight him more on this was because Lucas was running out of time. Yes, EJ had the gun on her during the roadblock. he put the gun away.

Yes it was horrible but Sami had moved on from that before she would choose to sleep with EJ again.

[pau]

59 minutes ago, nilyank said:

I didn't say that she offered to sleep with him. She offered to help EJ slip past the roadblock if he would save Lucas. That's it. After they got past the roadblock, EJ refused to do what he promised her. He then demanded that she would sleep with and the only reason that she did not fight him more on this was because Lucas was running out of time. Yes, EJ had the gun on her during the roadblock. he put the gun away.

Yes it was horrible but Sami had moved on from that before she would choose to sleep with EJ again.

Yes Ej never had a gun to Sami's head..untrue again..he had a gun on his hand  during the time they were on the car until they got past the roadblock but it was never to her head then he put the gun away.

1 hour ago, Apprentice79 said:

It wasn't just the rape that sullied Ejamie for me. It was everything that EJ did in his  twisted love for Samanther....EJ also attacked Sami's family.  He attacked Steve and Kayla. The games that he played with them were unconscionable.  EJ plotted to hurt Will to make Sami marry him, but, Stefano talked him out of it.  Then, he planned to hurt Belle and John's accident derailed his deadly plans for her. So, I have never understood Sami's toxic love for a man that wanted to control her and hurt her family.  

 

He never wanted to control her and Sami went with other guys who hurt her. Moreover with Ej she paid him back several times for his actions hurting her.

[TigerLynx]

Yes, EJ did have a gun to Sami's head.  All you have to do is watch the clip.  EJ threatened Sami with the gun several times.

[kitmerlot1213]

Man, but today's episode was intense!  I like that we got a Theresa mention during Brady and Eve's conversation but he also called her horrible names, along with Kristen and Nicole and then to top it all off, we got to see Brady physically threaten Eve--what a tough guy.

ED did a superb job during Susan's breakdown and good for Will for wanting to help her and not abandon her.  He's angry that he was lied to, but he still feels compassion to the woman who was good to him when he needed it the most.  I also liked Marlena's asking Will for a hug instead of just manhandling him--he's already starting to trust her.

And how insane is it that the characters are talking about brainwashing to John Black, a man whose brain's been rinsed how many times with how many different identities?

[Sandman]

20 hours ago, Silver Raven said:

Actually Sami and Rafe broke up when Sami had grief sex with EJ when they thought Johnny was dead.  And Will caught them at it.

This seems to be something of a family tradition, as Sami caught her mother and John in the act (was Marlena still married, or remarried, to Roman at point? I can't remember), and still harbours some degree of resentment of them both for it.

20 hours ago, buffynut said:

Ewwww.

Yeah, that part never changes.  ("Tradition, tradition!" -- from the Salem Players' upcoming holiday production of Fiddler on the Conference Table, coming soon to the HTS Theater. Bring the family! And be grossed out together.)

Edited November 21, 2017 by Sandman

[Apprentice79]

4 minutes ago, Sandman said:

This seems to be something of a family tradition, as Sami caught her mother and John in the act (was Marlena still married, or remarried, to Roman at point? I can't remember), and still harbours some degree of resentment of them both for it.

Yeah, that part never changes.  ("Tradition, tradition!" -- from the Salem Players' upcoming holiday production of Fiddler on the Conference Table, coming soon to the HTS Theater. Bring the family! And be grossed out together.)

Don't forget that Sami went home and had sex with Rafe after shooting EJ in the head.   Ben did the same thing with Abigail, after killing Will and dumping his body.  Dena is a sick woman and we have had the displeasure of watching her sick fantasies on the show for years....

[pau]

27 minutes ago, TigerLynx said:

Yes, EJ did have a gun to Sami's head.  All you have to do is watch the clip.  EJ threatened Sami with the gun several times.

I watched these scenes several times, he threatened with a gun in order for her to help him get past the roadblock but it was NEVER to her head and then when he asked her for sex he had already put the gun away, thank you.

[TigerLynx]

49 minutes ago, Apprentice79 said:

Don't forget that Sami went home and had sex with Rafe after shooting EJ in the head.   Ben did the same thing with Abigail, after killing Will and dumping his body.  Dena is a sick woman and we have had the displeasure of watching her sick fantasies on the show for years....

Spoiler

Sami is supposed to have sex with Rafe before she leaves Salem again.

I wish Sami had killed EJ, and gotten away with it.

 

Quote

I watched these scenes several times, he threatened with a gun in order for her to help him get past the roadblock but it was NEVER to her head and then when he asked her for sex he had already put the gun away, thank you.

Yes, the gun was to Sami's head.  Although I don't know why, when EJ had a gun and was threatening Sami with it, it would matter whether it was pointed directly at her head or chest.  When Sami first realized EJ was driving the car that had stopped, she tried to get away from him, and EJ drug her into the car, and held a gun on her.

[DisneyBoy]

Sorry if I was off on some details, Pau. I only saw clips online of the first few years of Sami and EJ's relationship, so I know I probably missed a lot of details. Plus, their whole relationship turned me off, so I might not have remembered things correctly. 'Broad Strokes' as I said.

I only saw the second half of today's episode but it was certainly a big one. I don't mind Susan taking Will and trying to mother him, I don't buy for a second that Susan was there the night that Will was strangled, much less with Rolfe. It's just too far-fetched and clumsy. I don't know what Ron was thinking there.

It's great to see Sister Mary Moira back, but her head piece looks really cheap. It's like a Halloween costume or something. At least back in the day they gave her proper nun's attire. This just looked weird.

How did Sister Mary even know to find Susan in Memphis? One would think that if she was in touch with her sister she would have known about her breakup with Edmund and come to visit her and probably discovered Will there. Mary was always fully aware that Susan was straddling the fence between reality and fantasy. She didn't believe for a second that the father of her sister's baby was Elvis, but she didn't scream and yell at her about it, too much anyways. I would think Susan breaking up with Edmund would set off alarm bells in Mary's mind. She was never a big fan of Edmund's, but it was obvious Susan desperately wanted to be with him. Don't siblings check on each other when their marriages go to hell?

Kristen's return at the end was soapy and campy and delicious - and ED looked stunning - but it sounded more like fanservice than Kristen herself. She never cackled and got off on being a villainess. I think that's my problem with Ron's writing - he doesn't seem to think through the logic of his plots so much as try to give us something that he or we would enjoy seeing. He is delivering stuff but the quality just isn't there.

Case in point: why didn't they take their time showing us amnesiac Will in his new life? That would have been really fun. We got weeks and weeks and weeks of Bonnie implausibly impersonating Adrienne, but what we really wanted was to see what Will had been up to for 2 years. Now that he's on his way back to Salem, the most we will get is references to his Memphis life that we didn't get to see. I am so sick of this show being lazy and telling us things instead of showing them to us. Paul and Sonny's entire previous relationship history has been related through dialogue. We got to see none of it. That really pisses me off. And I think it would have made today's break down so much more impactful if we had actually seen a few episodes of Susan trying to navigate pretending that Will was actually EJ, while Will was secretly feeling attracted to men but trying to live up to Susan's idea of who he was. That could have been funny and poignant and built anticipation at the same time. Will is basically back in the closet again - why not explore that? Instead, all we get is some dialogue from Will today about how he knew he was attracted to men for the last two years but didn't tell Susan. That's so boring! Show us these things. Show us Rodger loving Susan while still being torn up about her manipulation of Will. We got so much mileage out of Susan going to London with EJ and meeting Edmund and his mother. I feel like the show wouldn't bother to do that kind of subplot now because of budget restrictions or just lack of imagination. So much of the show happens off-camera and it drives me crazy. Missed opportunities.

But there you go: we have confirmation EJ is alive. Now the big question that I don't want an answer to is whether or not they got the original actor back to play him. I really hope so and hope that it's a return that nobody sees coming. That seems impossible these days, but I hope they can manage it. Even if he was only back on the show for a few episodes to explain how he was brought back to life and how Kristen's been taking care of him and how he's keeping his distance, I think that would be great.

I hate Freddie's acting so much y'all. I hate him being in this storyline. I don't even care how the triangle wraps up. I just want him gone so bad.

I'm kind of glad we finally saw Brady raise his hand to a woman. It's been there in him for years now, and I liked that the show actually addressed it. Unfortunately, because it's a soap trope to have the guy walk into the girl's room while she's in a state of undress, and Eve already has a track record of getting into messed-up relationships, I'm basically convinced now that they're going to be sleeping together by the end of the year...which makes me hugely depressed.

I wish Eve would just kick him in the balls and move out of that creepy mansion. Who the hell lives in a mansion where they've been accused of murder by people that they believe are actual murderers?! Couldn't Eve just buy some awesome penthouse loft with Deimos' money? If this were the nineties and the show had a budget, she totally would have.

Edited November 21, 2017 by DisneyBoy

[pau]

16 minutes ago, TigerLynx said:

  Reveal hidden contents

Sami is supposed to have sex with Rafe before she leaves Salem again.

I wish Sami had killed EJ, and gotten away with it.

 

Yes, the gun was to Sami's head.  Although I don't know why, when EJ had a gun and was threatening Sami with it, it would matter whether it was pointed directly at her head or chest.  When Sami first realized EJ was driving the car that had stopped, she tried to get away from him, and EJ drug her into the car, and held a gun on her.

Again it is not true, the gun was NEVER on Sami's head. It matter because what you say is inaccurate and you persist, i don't know why. And Sami never tried to get away from him and Ej never drug Sami to his car..we just saw the scene when she was outside the car and then in the car..you speculate here, we did not see the details.

It is one thing to say what you wanted to see and another to describe what really happened ONSCREEN. Saying something will not make it true just because you want it.

Edited November 21, 2017 by pau

[TigerLynx]

Yes, it is true.  All you have to do is watch the entire scene.

It's going to suck if EJ is actually alive.  Sami and her children are better off with EJ dead.

Edited November 21, 2017 by TigerLynx

[buffynut]

Another good episode. 

Glad Susan wasn't Kristen in disguise.  ED has really done a great job the last few days with showing Susan's breakdown. It was hard not to feel sorry for her.

So Sister Mary is actually Susan's real sister?

Oh, yay. EJ is alive. I guess half the audience, maybe even half this board, will be thrilled. The other half, not so much. I didn't care for the little I saw of EJ, so I was fine with him being dead. But I suppose whenever Sami leaves Salem again, that will be her excuse.

Kristin seemed off. Maybe that's what happens, though, when you're brought back from the dead! 

I also dislike Freddie's acting these days. And it's weird, because back before he left, and during the Will/Paul reveal, I really liked Sonny. Now I find Freddie's acting seems so unnatural, and that everyone else seems to "be" their character, while Freddie seems to be "reading his lines".  I think that's why I am so sympathetic towards Paul.

I'm really liking Will. I wish they would show some flashbacks of him with his family, though. And hope Lucas gets to see Will tomorrow.

If Eve sleeps with Brady, at least this time it will "just" be with her sister's boyfriend, and not her daughter's. [/sarcasm]

[Apprentice79]

Eileen was just so wonderful today. Give her, her Emmy and be done with it. 

I loved the Marlena/Will scenes. Marlena was great in her scenes with Will and Susan.   She consoled Susan, understood her pain.  She referenced losing her own first born son, DJ, without, mentioning his name..

The show cut 2 scenes today, we did not see Paulson argue about Paul's deception and we did not see John console Sami, she was hugging him and we did not see what transpired between them. I have always loved the John/Sami dynamic. He always loved her no matter what....

What happened to Freddie's acting skills. I know that I keep asking this, but, I am truly baffled on how awful, he is right now. He was so likable, once upon a time, sad!

Edited November 21, 2017 by Apprentice79

[rcc]

I agree FS's acting sucks during this whole storyline. He just stands there and reads his lines. ED was definitely the star today. Everyone but Freddie and Christopher are acting the hell out of this storyline. Even Drake.

[tribeca]

I think people just didn’t like Will at the time     So sonny was the like able one.   I don’t think his acting has changed that much. JMHO 

12 minutes ago, Apprentice79 said:

 

What happened to Freddie's acting skills. I know that I keep asking this, but, I am truly baffled on how awful, he is right now. He was so likable, once upon a time, sad!

[Sandman]

1 hour ago, TigerLynx said:

It's going to suck if EJ is actually alive. Sami and her children are better off with EJ dead.

Boy, howdy! If Elvis is back in the building, I'm gone. (And Susan and Kristen, too? Heaven help me. I'm behind, and getting caught up begins to feel like more and more of a chore.)

Edited November 21, 2017 by Sandman

[buffynut]

20 minutes ago, rcc said:

I agree FS's acting sucks during this whole storyline. He just stands there and reads his lines. ED was definitely the star today. Everyone but Freddie and Christopher are acting the hell out of this storyline. Even Drake.

I think, for the role he's playing, Christopher is doing fine. He's not over-the-top emotional like Sami or Susan, but just standing by as the kinda-insider, but also outsider. He doesn't really know where he stands or will stand when this is all said and done. And add to the awkwardness that they haven't really addressed, Paul is not only Sonny's fiance, he's also one of Will's ex-lovers.  Plus, he's related to Will, via John.  So very messy and complicated. No wonder Paul is mostly standing on the sidelines.  Course I've come to really like the Paul character, despite his retcon appearance, so I may be a bit biased in my opinion.

18 minutes ago, tribeca said:

I think people just didn’t like Will at the time     So sonny was the like able one.   I don’t think his acting has changed that much. JMHO 

You could be right. The only Will I knew was the son who wrote a scandalous article about his own mother, was friends with an Abigail I didn't like, left town and didn't contact his husband for weeks, then cheated on his husband not once, but twice.  So no wonder I hated Will and felt sorry for Sonny.  And that could have made Freddie's acting seem better than it was.

[JBC344]

1 hour ago, pau said:

Again it is not true, the gun was NEVER on Sami's head. It matter because what you say is inaccurate and you persist, i don't know why. And Sami never tried to get away from him and Ej never drug Sami to his car..we just saw the scene when she was outside the car and then in the car..you speculate here, we did not see the details.

It is one thing to say what you wanted to see and another to describe what really happened ONSCREEN. Saying something will not make it true just because you want it.

I don't want to get into was the gun at her head or by his side argument because truth be told it doesn't make a difference but what I will say is the reason it is considered rape is because there was a gun involved period.  It is the threat that EJ would use the gun on her and also removing the ability of choice by having Lucas's life hang in the balance. 

When the choice is have sex with me or I'm going to let your fiancée die.  There is NO CHOICE.  That is why the narrative of the story has always been rape as opposed to a "devil's bargain" or an "indecent proposal".

Weather the gun is at her head, by his side or he just casually displays it in front of her, please make no mistake that is a THREAT. 

Also please understand that in the climate we are currently in with what is going on with women reclaiming their voice that there is no "one way" to be raped/harassed/assaulted.  Just because Sami wasn't beaten, drug to a car and had her clothes savagely ripped off of her doesn't mean that it wasn't rape. 

Don't get me wrong I'm not implying what other posters may or may not think, but when we are commenting on details of the plot, please make sure we are separating those details from the actual narrative of what the story is. 

Now it is true that Sami and EJ have worked past all of that. It was even referenced and brought up again when Kristen raped Eric.  Sami admitted that one of the reasons she was able to forgive EJ was because she had done the same thing to Austin and they had worked though it and come out on the other side.

[pau]

2 hours ago, TigerLynx said:

Yes, it is true.  All you have to do is watch the entire scene.

It's going to suck if EJ is actually alive.  Sami and her children are better off with EJ dead.

We can continue a long time like that and what you say is not true, i watched the entire scene numerous times, thank you very much.

11 minutes ago, JBC344 said:

I don't want to get into was the gun at her head or by his side argument because truth be told it doesn't make a difference but what I will say is the reason it is considered rape is because there was a gun involved period.  It is the threat that EJ would use the gun on her and also removing the ability of choice by having Lucas's life hang in the balance. 

When the choice is have sex with me or I'm going to let your fiancée die.  There is NO CHOICE.  That is why the narrative of the story has always been rape as opposed to a "devil's bargain" or an "indecent proposal".

Weather the gun is at her head, by his side or he just casually displays it in front of her, please make no mistake that is a THREAT. 

Also please understand that in the climate we are currently in with what is going on with women reclaiming their voice that there is no "one way" to be raped/harassed/assaulted.  Just because Sami wasn't beaten, drug to a car and had her clothes savagely ripped off of her doesn't mean that it wasn't rape. 

Don't get me wrong I'm not implying what other posters may or may not think, but when we are commenting on details of the plot, please make sure we are separating those details from the actual narrative of what the story is. 

Now it is true that Sami and EJ have worked past all of that. It was even referenced and brought up again when Kristen raped Eric.  Sami admitted that one of the reasons she was able to forgive EJ was because she had done the same thing to Austin and they had worked though it and come out on the other side.

By writing that you went 'into that'  moreover Ej had no responsability towards Lucas' life and he was not responsible of Lucas' predicament, it was not his problem, to me it was so much more nebulous, complex than 'he forced Sami by threatening to let Lucas die'. I don't share your opinion on this subject, end of story.

And i am well aware of the current climate and i don't create hodgepodge on serious subjects like that.

Edited November 21, 2017 by pau

[howmanywords]

I haven't felt too strong about Will being back, until the scenes with Marlena today. Wow. I had a feeling that's what would get me. 

[Silver Raven]

My God, just how far are they going to have Brady go?

[peachmangosteen]

4 hours ago, Apprentice79 said:

Dena is a sick woman and we have had the displeasure of watching her sick fantasies on the show for years....

Ron Carlivati has some really twisted ideas, too. I like him, but his rape fetish is super gross. I hope he has someone here that will say no to his worst ideas.

2 hours ago, buffynut said:

I also dislike Freddie's acting these days. And it's weird, because back before he left, and during the Will/Paul reveal, I really liked Sonny. Now I find Freddie's acting seems so unnatural, and that everyone else seems to "be" their character, while Freddie seems to be "reading his lines".  I think that's why I am so sympathetic towards Paul.

Yea, he's so bad now. Maybe those are right that he was never really good he was just more likable once upon a time.

1 hour ago, buffynut said:

I think, for the role he's playing, Christopher is doing fine. He's not over-the-top emotional like Sami or Susan, but just standing by as the kinda-insider, but also outsider. He doesn't really know where he stands or will stand when this is all said and done. And add to the awkwardness that they haven't really addressed, Paul is not only Sonny's fiance, he's also one of Will's ex-lovers.  Plus, he's related to Will, via John.  So very messy and complicated. No wonder Paul is mostly standing on the sidelines.  Course I've come to really like the Paul character, despite his retcon appearance, so I may be a bit biased in my opinion.

I think he's doing a good job, too. He doesn't have the big scenes the others have had, but he's really good in the small, background moments he gets imo. But I'm with you on liking Paul, so yes that might be influencing my feelings.

I was surprised they had Brady threaten to hit Eve, although I don't know why because that does seem right up Ron's alley. Even though they're taking him to a really heinous place I still find Brady more compelling now than I ever have and I think the actor is doing a great job with it.

I really like the actor playing Roger. He was fantastic today. He just has such a warmth to him.

ED really was so great as Susan today.

I loved the Will/Marlena scenes. Marlena asking if she could hug him got to me.

Edited November 21, 2017 by peachmangosteen

[Apprentice79]

1 minute ago, peachmangosteen said:

Ron Carlivati has some really twisted ideas, too. I like him, but his rape fetish is super gross. I hope he has someone here that will say no to his worst ideas.

Yea, he's so bad now. Maybe those are right that he was never really good he was just more likable once upon a time.

I think he's doing a good job, too. He doesn't have the big scenes the others have had, but he's really good in the small, background moments he gets imo. But I'm with you on like Paul, so yes that might be influencing my feelings.

I was surprised they had Brady threaten to hit Eve, although I don't know why because that does seem right up Ron's alley. Even though they're taking him to a really heinous place I still find Brady more compelling now than I ever have and I think the actor is doing a great job with it.

I really like the actor playing Roger. He was fantastic today. He just has such a warmth to him.

ED really was so great as Susan today.

I loved the Will/Marlena scenes. Marlena asking if she could hug him got to me.

It was disturbing, seeing him raise his hands at Eve. He is out of control. He exhibited abusive tendencies with Nicole.

[Sandman]

I don't like the sound of any of this. Well, the Will/Marlena part sounds good. The rest? Feh.

Edited November 22, 2017 by Sandman

[DisneyBoy]

If Kristen is going to be operating in Salem again, I wonder how ugly things will get with Brady. It feels like Ron is pushing his boundaries so that by the time Kristen is back in his face, she'll either be scared of him or thrilled he's come over to the 'dark side'.

Kristen is, after all, the one who started him on this path*.

* - Brady logic.

 

On another note entirely, how did Kristen survive her 500 foot fall? How did she find out about Susan and Will? Why did she go to the house all dressed up?

Things to ask yourself, Ron.

[boes]

3 hours ago, JBC344 said:

I don't want to get into was the gun at her head or by his side argument because truth be told it doesn't make a difference but what I will say is the reason it is considered rape is because there was a gun involved period.  It is the threat that EJ would use the gun on her and also removing the ability of choice by having Lucas's life hang in the balance. 

When the choice is have sex with me or I'm going to let your fiancée die.  There is NO CHOICE.  That is why the narrative of the story has always been rape as opposed to a "devil's bargain" or an "indecent proposal".

Weather the gun is at her head, by his side or he just casually displays it in front of her, please make no mistake that is a THREAT. 

Also please understand that in the climate we are currently in with what is going on with women reclaiming their voice that there is no "one way" to be raped/harassed/assaulted.  Just because Sami wasn't beaten, drug to a car and had her clothes savagely ripped off of her doesn't mean that it wasn't rape. 

Don't get me wrong I'm not implying what other posters may or may not think, but when we are commenting on details of the plot, please make sure we are separating those details from the actual narrative of what the story is. 

Now it is true that Sami and EJ have worked past all of that. It was even referenced and brought up again when Kristen raped Eric.  Sami admitted that one of the reasons she was able to forgive EJ was because she had done the same thing to Austin and they had worked though it and come out on the other side.

Truth.

[Apprentice79]

32 minutes ago, DisneyBoy said:

If Kristen is going to be operating in Salem again, I wonder how ugly things will get with Brady. It feels like Ron is pushing his boundaries so that by the time Kristen is back in his face, she'll either be scared of him or thrilled he's come over to the 'dark side'.

Kristen is, after all, the one who started him on this path*.

* - Brady logic.

 

On another note entirely, how did Kristen survive her 500 foot fall? How did she find out about Susan and Will? Why did she go to the house all dressed up?

Things to ask yourself, Ron.

I got the impression that this was a cameo appearance by Kristen, setting up her eventual return to Salem. Eileen is under contract on another soap.

Edited November 22, 2017 by Apprentice79

[JBC344]

56 minutes ago, Apprentice79 said:

I got the impression that this was a cameo appearance by Kristen, setting up her eventual return to Salem. Eileen is under contract on another soap.

I actually just read that she is extending her stay with Days.  I don't know what form that will take in terms of her filming and when we will see her, but they must of worked something out.

[Apprentice79]

1 minute ago, JBC344 said:

I actually just read that she is extending her stay with Days.  I don't know what form that will take in terms of her filming and when we will see her, but they must of worked something out.

I guess we will see her in 2018. 

[Sandman]

Oh. Joy.

[Frozendiva]

Eve, move out of that mansion and get your own place. With Deimos' money, you have no need to live there. Free alcohol or not. I'd be worried about my food being poisoned. And no Brady, you do not hit a woman - unless you want to end up in jail. Kristen did not make you do this stuff - you chose to react by doing this.

ED was excellent at Susan - beyond misguided but felt she was sort of doing the right thing. Haven't seen Sister Mary Moira - guess they have similar smiles. Kristen looked fabulous.

Will does have the choice to not go to Salem - he can stay as the lie that is 'EJ'. Yes it is not who he truly is, but he is a blank slate. As for the real EJ being alive - well, that gives Sami an 'out'. I thought her reactions were a bit over the top and that her mother was right to get her to take a few seats.

[Giuseppe]

4 hours ago, DisneyBoy said:

On another note entirely, how did Kristen survive her 500 foot fall? How did she find out about Susan and Will? Why did she go to the house all dressed up?

Things to ask yourself, Ron.

Exaactly my questions, lol. I'm just gonna fanwank it for now that Rolf fixed Kristen up after the fall, then after years of recovery/plotting, she recently snuck back into Salem and began keeping tabs on people. Overheard or found out about Will being alive and about Susan having him, and then, intrigued because of her history with Susan, followed the gang to Memphis just to see what the hell was going on. Maybe she was gonna spill the beans about EJ still being alive, but when she found out about Will, she wanted to see how that all shook out first. Can't explain that red dress, tho, except it made for a hell of a re-appearance outfit, lol.

[annabel]

I missed Marlena's more problematic years and I will always have a soft spot for her and just love her when she is in "caring Dr. Evans" mode. she started to say "it's grandma" switched that to "Marlena Evans" and was just very respectful of Will's feelings and what he may or may not want to do. And it got very dusty in here when she said "I hope I get to see you again" and then "oh, can I just give you a hug?" I hope she can get Sami and Sonny to not try to bulldoze him

[bannana]

I want to know if I got the story Roger told us straight.  Is it correct that Ben did not actually kill Will?  And Rolf and Susan showed up and drugged him to appear to be dead?  And then everyone grieved him terribly and we had the scenes in the morgue with Lucas and Sami, and then later Rolf and Susan revived Will and she took him to Memphis and convinced him he was EJ?  I think that is what I heard.  Which means no one revived him, he was never dead, and they could in fact have called 911.  I don't have a problem with the coincidence that they were there when Will was attacked.  Why isn't everyone as pissed as Sami at Susan for stealing Will from his daughter and his family?  Susan's original story that she wanted to revive him to kill him was horrific enough, but to dupe everyone and most of all Will, when he could have survived and lived his life in Salem?

I never saw the character of Susan originally and I don't really empathize with her at all.  In the same episode we have Will being nasty to his real mother, Brady being nasty to Eve calling her a bad mother when her daughter is dead.  But we are supposed to empathize or feel sympathy with someone who is a heartless kidnapper because she lost her GROWN son?  I get that they had to go easy to get Roger to cooperate, but they all should be as outraged as Sami at what Susan and Rolf did to them.  And while Will may feel some Stockholm Syndrome sympathy for Susan, he ultimately should be outraged as well.

I could have accepted the Will return story a lot better if it was Rolf doing this on Stefano's behalf to punish Sami and Marlena.

[jaylee-03031]

OMG, I hate Sami and can't wait until she is off of my screen again. She is so overbearing, rude, and she has a real problem keeping her damn hands to herself.  She manhandles, slaps, and punches people all the time and it is beyond irritating ,  She is so abrasive and selfish too.  She needs be back off Will a little and give him a chance to breathe, to adjust to everything that has happened, and she needs to respect his feelings for Susan even if she doesn't like it.  Will has no memories and has spent the last two years with Susan and Roger.  She needs to not bulldoze him or manhandle him.  Marlena and Will's scenes were very heartwarming and made me tear up.  Marlena is softer, more understanding of what both Will and Susan are going through, and is thinking about what Will needs. Imagine if you were at work one day and all these strangers (to you) kept getting into your face in a very aggressive ways, grabbing your arm  and trying to physically yank you away from the person you have lived with for two years that you care about, and making demands that you leave to go a strange town (to you) with them.  It would be terrifying, confusing, and even traumatizing.  I felt bad for Susan too,. Yes what she did was wrong but she is mentally ill and completely broke down after the loss of her son.   She did take good care of Will and loved him like her own son.  Sami (while I understand her anger) should be grateful that Susan took such good care of Will and loved him like her own son. My friend was kidnapped, raped, and murdered so I know Will could have been snatched by a real monster who abused him, tortured him, raped him, and/or killed him but instead he was loved, fed,clothed, and well cared for.    I think I'm going to start fast forwarding Sami scenes but she just really grates on me and can't stand watching her.  She was also incredibly rude to Paul. 

Edited November 22, 2017 by jaylee-03031

[JBC344]

Really compelling episode.  Still not 100% thrilled what they have done with Susan but I will admit the last few days have been really good television.  Loved the Marlena and Will scenes, a really great book end to his coming out story. 

Did anyone else catch the DJ reference?  When Marlena was sympathizing with Susan and said she knows what she is going through.  At first I thought she was talking shrink but then DJ popped into my head.

I like what Christopher Sean is doing with Paul but that last shot of complete disappointment really made me chuckle.  He is becoming just as unhinged as Brady.  I know that he is terrified of losing Sonny but you would think the "good/rational" part of Paul could muster up some happiness/relief that Will is alive.  I mean Paul may be all about Sonny now, but he knew Will, had an attraction to Will, and has slept with him.  I think his scenes would work a little better if he were slightly more conflicted.  Right now he is like 95% pissed Will is alive and 5% unaffected.  He should be 70% worried and 30% overjoyed about Will.  It is just a little too one note for my taste.

Loved the Eve/Brady scenes.  I was just ok on Eve as a character before, but I'm really loving what they have done with her character.  It's kind of ironic because I think her temperament/history fits in so well with the Kiriakis "brand" that you would think she would be welcomed as a kindred spirit.  It's a shame that Victor is written as basically a walking misogynist because I remember when Victor was drawn to and attracted to complicated women like Kate and Vivian.  He saw them as equals/partners in crime.  Not saying Victor should be attracted to Eve romantically but I miss the old Victor that would of seen someone like Eve and welcomed her into the family as an ally.  He would of appreciated her tenacity and thought she was more misunderstood than a troublemaker. 

Always have and always will love me some Kristen.  So glad that she is back.

[JBC344]

9 hours ago, pau said:

We can continue a long time like that and what you say is not true, i watched the entire scene numerous times, thank you very much.

By writing that you went 'into that'  moreover Ej had no responsability towards Lucas' life and he was not responsible of Lucas' predicament, it was not his problem, to me it was so much more nebulous, complex than 'he forced Sami by threatening to let Lucas die'. I don't share your opinion on this subject, end of story.

And i am well aware of the current climate and i don't create hodgepodge on serious subjects like that.

Edited November 22, 2017 by JBC344

[Star Aristille]

Today was good soap.  Susan was finally busted, but thanks to Marlena, we were reminded that even in spite of all of this, she's not really a bad person.  Just someone who was grieving and did something over-the-top.  But she did apologize and ask for forgiveness, and I think John and Marlena, at least, will give it to her.  Sami . . . might take a while to get there.  Though given the things that she's done, is she really in any position to judge her?

Appreciated the Will/Marlena scenes, and I also really liked Sonny defending Paul to Sami while still not willing to be totally forgiving of him himself.

All in all, good acting and great drama today.

KRISTEN!  Sorry, but I like her, campy evil and all.  #SorryNotSorry

36 minutes ago, jaylee-03031 said:

My friend was kidnapped, raped, and murdered

What?!  I'm so sorry, @jaylee-03031!  Was that recent?  It must've been devastating!:(

[annabel]

can the disagreement of what did/didn't happen in Sami and EJ's history please go somewhere else and stay out of this discussion of current plots please? thank you.

[nilyank]

1 hour ago, Star Aristille said:

 was good soap.  Susan was finally busted, but thanks to Marlena, we were reminded that even in spite of all of this, she's not really a bad person.  Just someone who was grieving and did something over-the-top.  But she did apologize and ask for forgiveness, and I think John and Marlena, at least, will give it to her.  Sami . . . might take a while to get there.  Though given the things that she's done, is she really in any position to judge her?

Did Susan apologize and ask forgiveness from Sami for faking her son's death for two years, brainwashing Will into believing he was someone else, and spent a great deal of the past two years badmouthing Will's mother?

And yes I do think Sami gets to judge Susan. Because Susan took Will not to help him but so she could wallow in her pain and hurt Sami. She kept Will away from his daughter Arianna who lost the only parent who was constantly in her life up to that point (Sonny leaving Will for his cheating ways, Gabi going to prison). She kept Will away from his young brother and sisters, two who are Susan's grandchildren (and still has not met) who spent that past year before Will's so-called death grieving for their father, only to lose their beloved brother as well. Will was not in danger, and Susan effectively kept Will imprisoned by constantly lying to him and isolating him essentially so he would never leave her.

I am surprised more people are not angry with Susan for stealing someone they all loved for two years and was never going to come clean about what she did. If it wasn't for Ben, Clyde and Rolf (crazy or evil people), Will's family would have never known that he was alive.

[Star Aristille]

14 hours ago, nilyank said:

And yes I do think Sami gets to judge Susan. Because Susan took Will not to help him but so she could wallow in her pain and hurt Sami. She kept Will away from his daughter Arianna who lost the only parent who was constantly in her life up to that point (Sonny leaving Will for his cheating ways, Gabi going to prison). She kept Will away from his young brother and sisters, two who are Susan's grandchildren (and still has not met) who spent that past year before Will's so-called death grieving for their father, only to lose their beloved brother as well. Will was not in danger, and Susan effectively kept Will imprisoned by constantly lying to him and isolating him essentially so he would never leave her.

And . . . what's Sami done?  While she didn't do anything like this, she's still done quite a few worse things and thus has very little room to judge anyone.  In fact, if she did it in reverse, unlike Susan, she'd feel zero remorse over it.  At least Susan clearly felt some after she finally woke up and really saw what she'd done.

Edited November 22, 2017 by Star Aristille

[pau]

So Marlena is the calm, voice of reason who can connect with Will in a deep and respectful way..and Sami, his own mother is the abrasive, selfish, impulsive one..who once again is abused verbally by her son..And of course Susan, the gal who kidnapped her son for two freaking years is the one we should feel sorry for..such a manipulative way of writing..Sami is once again the 'bad guy' even when she is the one who suffered the most.  

I am glad i don't watch this show anymore..Sami selfish and impulsive as she is, deserve better and i will be glad when she will leave and continue to live quite peacefully with her other children, who love her, away from the 'good people' of Salem.

4 hours ago, Star Aristille said:

And . . . what's Sami done?  While didn't do anything like this, she's still done quite a few worse things and thus has very little room to judge anyone.  In fact, if she did it in reverse, unlike Susan, she'd feel zero remorse over it.  At least Susan clearly felt some after she finally woke up and really saw what she'd done.

I don't see how she did 'worse' and above all she never did anything to Susan. And you don't know if she did it in reverse..not even sure she would have done something like that to begin with..she went through Will and Ej's death and never kidnapped anyone in order to replace them actually..and you don't know if she'd feel zero remorse or not since she never dit it.

Edited November 22, 2017 by pau

[kitmerlot1213]

I don't think we're supposed to see Sami as a villain, just a mother desperate to have her son back--just like Susan.  And it felt like everyone in that room witnessing Susan's breakdown understood that she was acting out of misguided grief and making horrendously bad choices because of her emotional pain and they felt compassion for her.

 I don't think Susan needs to be tarred and feathered--her "What have I done?" complete with horrified look spoke volumes--because once she was broken out of her delusion she saw the enormity of what she'd done and she was deeply sorry.  I think all Sami wants is to have Will back with her and the rest of his loved ones, living his life again--she isn't out for blood.

Now Sami's anger at Paul is justified because Paul is a clear thinking man in possession of all of his faculties and he choose to keep silent about seeing Will alive and working in the bar.  Yes, Paul feels bad and has apologized but his reasons for doing so was entirely selfish and I can understand Sami's not letting that go.  She will eventually but right now, her anger is too fresh.

[Apprentice79]

9 hours ago, bannana said:

I could have accepted the Will return story a lot better if it was Rolf doing this on Stefano's behalf to punish Sami and Marlena.

Stefano for all his flaws would never really hurt Marlena,her children and grandchildren. The only exception to that rule is John and Roman.. Whereas, Orpheus truly hated Marlena and wanted her to suffer.  Kidnapping Will would be something that Orpheus would have done.  Stefano actually was at the hospital, when Will was born and wanted to be there to witness the birth of Marlena's first grandchild.  Celeste was very annoyed by that..lol

 

8 hours ago, JBC344 said:

Did anyone else catch the DJ reference?  When Marlena was sympathizing with Susan and said she knows what she is going through.  At first I thought she was talking shrink but then DJ popped into my head.

Yes, I did.  That was Sherry,  I think that she wrote that story.  I always like it when Marlena reference him, that pain has never left her..

 

8 hours ago, JBC344 said:

I like what Christopher Sean is doing with Paul but that last shot of complete disappointment really made me chuckle.  He is becoming just as unhinged as Brady.  I know that he is terrified of losing Sonny but you would think the "good/rational" part of Paul could muster up some happiness/relief that Will is alive.  I mean Paul may be all about Sonny now, but he knew Will, had an attraction to Will, and has slept with him.  I think his scenes would work a little better if he were slightly more conflicted.  Right now he is like 95% pissed Will is alive and 5% unaffected.  He should be 70% worried and 30% overjoyed about Will.  It is just a little too one note for my taste.

Once Paul and Will realized that they were rivals for Sonny, whatever attraction that they may have felt for each other dissipated. Plus, Paul never expressed real sadness for Will's death. He felt bad for Marlena and John and their pain. Plus, Paulson declaring their devotion to each other, while standing literally on Will's grave was very disrespectful.  I would love to see Kristen's reaction to Paul, since she and John were madly in love, during his supposed conception at Maison Blanche. Paul should have been Peter's son..  It would be cool if he found out that he was Peter's son and chose to keep it a secret, fearing that he would lose John and Marlena.. It never made any sense that his mother would keep Paul away from John. 

Edited November 22, 2017 by Apprentice79

[JBC344]

As much as Sami's histronics can be annoying. I am finding her reactions the most realistic for the enormity of the situation. 

I also have to give it up to Rafe, which is not something I have done in the last few years. His reaction to Will being alive was the perfect mix of elation, shock, and misunderstanding. I also appreciated what he said to Hope that Will is his former step son and he won't apologize for joining Sami in the hunt. The fact that he had to explain that to Hope Will's great aunt as well as cousin is at the core of the one negative of this story. The reactions are way too subdued. 

Brady, Will, and Maggie are all related to Will and have watched him grow up. The news regarding him should of brought them all to tears. 

I think it is the fact that Sami is operating at 10 and everyone else is at a 2 that is creating such disparity. 

[pau]

And Susan could have become close to Sami instead of blaming her for everything, they shared the same grief about Ej..for example, why not getting to know Ej's own children..who he loved dearly..you know Sami's children : Johnny and Sydney ..her own grandchildren..but nope..no 'soapy' enough for these writers..

Edited November 22, 2017 by pau

[Sandman]

50 minutes ago, Apprentice79 said:

Stefano for all his flaws would never really hurt Marlena ...

Well, that whole demonic possession thing might suggest otherwise. (Although it was probably Stefano's idea of "This hurts me more than it hurts you.")

[bannana]

2 hours ago, Sandman said:

Well, that whole demonic possession thing might suggest otherwise. (Although it was probably Stefano's idea of "This hurts me more than it hurts you.")

Plus he was going to throw her out of the window of that Italian place, until Chad talked him out of it.

[FnkyChkn34]

I caught yesterday's (Tuesday's) episode, and again, I wasn't that enamored by it.  It's a good thing that Chandler Massey can still act, because this story is not that great.  Sami is beyond annoying and so selfish, Sonny is a dufus, and Paul just mopes.  John and Marlena are helping the scenes a bit, and I thought I'd never say that because I don't care for John.  Susan/Kristen/Sister Moira/whoever ED wants to play on any give day all just need to leave too.  I've never liked any of those characters, and my opinion hasn't changed.  I agree with the sentiment that Susan was sympathetic, and she played it well to show a psychotic break, but otherwise I've never been that impressed with ED's acting, either.  

The Brady vs. Eve feud?  I don't get it.

I didn't see any of the Theo/JJ story yet, so can't comment on that.  

Whoever decided to not tell Lucas and not involve him is an idiot too.  I agree with Maggie that maybe this good news would put him back on the wagon.

[Apprentice79]

13 minutes ago, bannana said:

Plus he was going to throw her out of the window of that Italian place, until Chad talked him out of it.

That was out of character.  Stefano has had many opportunities to harm her  over the years and he never did.