S19.E10: Week 8: Dynamic Duos

[sinkwriter]

He did seem a little shorter than usual - he answered her very quickly. Then again, he might have just meant to be emphatic (rather than frustrated), as in, "Yes, I absolutely have to have my hand there, or I could hurt your back or mine (or pull/injure other muscles) in trying to execute this move."

[lorikauai]

Overall I thought it was a good week. I think in general Janel, Bethany, and Sadie are performing equally well. This week I did like Janel the best, partially because I preferred Val's choreography but she executed it well. I was impressed with how well Sadie handled the apple prop but I enjoyed Mark's choreography (and the music for that dance) less than Val's or Derek's. I thought Bethany was more convincing as Lucy than Derek was as Ricky. Alfonso and Witney were adorable as Batman and Robin. I still think Alfonso pretty much has this season in the bag. Michael did a little better this week but he should have been gone weeks ago. Lea seems like she's running out of gas and Tommy, while still charming, should probably go next. I do think the dance off pairings were pre-planned. The pairs were well matched and I'm sure for at least memory sake they wanted Tommy to know what he was dancing.

 

I do feel like Sadie's constant concern with modesty is as contrived and gimmicky as Janel and Val's showmance. I am sure that she was cast with the intention of making that part of the storyline. 

[quinn]

When I saw Val and Janel dance my thought was, "this dance with all the lifts is the male pro version of compensating / obfuscating dancing with a weak partner." Overall I do not consider Janel a weak competitor but I think that dance was dumbed down, so color me surprised when the judges gushed over the dance and each gave that dance a 10.

My conspiracy theory is that the judges were compensating for last week's low scores. I get why Janel and Val were dinged last week because of lack of content, nevertheless IMHO last week's Viennese Waltz minus the Viennese was one of the best dances of that night and this week the judges threw in a little something extra to reward Janel and Val for delivering a very good, although non-compliant, dance last week.

I am not particularly invested in Lea, but she has a great body period, regardless of age.

Re Derek and Bethany's dance, whatever about the dance, I liked Bethany's Lucy costume, but I'm peeved that Derek got it wrong with Ricky. Ricky Ricardo was one suave dude even when he was dressed casually, and Derek styled himself more like he was portraying Fred Mertz or Ralph Kramden.

[luvthepros]

 

.........I do think Alfonso was more subdued in some of his moves than he usually is.....

Alfonso was not dancing full out last night. I noticed it very much with the dance off Jive. No comparison to the level he danced Jive in week one. I have a feeling Alfonso is still nursing the groin injury. Having said that....Alfonso not dancing full out is still better than any other celeb's full effort this season .

[LadyMustang65]

Truth - just so we're clear - I'm not criticizing Mark if he was in fact annoyed. I wouldn't blame him at all. I've been annoyed by it since the second week, and I don't have to put up with it 8 hours/day 7 days/week. He's been a good sport about it all. But I just wondered if it's finally starting to get to him with all the accommodations he has to make to satisfy that clan. And I guess kind of wondering if that's exacerbating his annoyance with the scores. He's been working overtime to come up with dances that both satisfy his creative side and will hopefully please both audiences and judges while being hampered by all the 'I'm a Christian; I can't do this and that, and I can't wear the other thing' input from the peanut gallery. It seems like that would have to wear him down after awhile, and maybe that's why he was exceptionally pissy about the scores the last couple of weeks?

[LadyMustang65]

Quinn--it's an interesting theory but from what little I know about dancing from watching this show and especially SYTYCD, doing lifts is really hard to do well and not something you'd do with an untalented partner. Apparently there's a real knack on both sides, but especially on the woman's side, to doing a lift well. So it seems unlikely a male pro would pack a dance full of lifts like that if his partner isn't talented. My thought was that Val did it that way precisely because Janel can handle those things, and they are both crowd-pleasing and judge-pleasing. And very much in line with contemporary. They do a lot of contemporary on SYTYCD, and a shorthand comment is that the guy was a 'forklift,' meaning pretty much his whole job was to lift the girl again and again and again. So Val's contemporary didn't seem unusual to me. The lifts were (to my eyes anyway) beautifully done, and I thought the dance was very well done overall. I'm not sure it was worth a 40, but in our house it was a top dance along with Alfonso's, which we thought should have scored equally well. Sadie had some issues with her contemporary, and she nearly fell towards the end and had to put her hand down to the floor to steady herself. So the 38 seemed appropriate to me.

[McManda]

A little late, but ...

 

I'm so, so, so sick of the jazzes and the broadways and the contemporaries. And I say that actually liking the idea of jazz and broadway. (Contemporary bores me to tears, mostly all the time. It takes a fantastic contemporary for me to even look twice. Untrained dancers trying the best isn't going to cut it at all.) This is dancing with the stars, where the core idea is (or was, sadly) ballroom dancing. This isn't so you think you can dance with the stars. Ugh. Janel is going to get out of this without doing one core ballroom dance.

 

Emma made a really beautiful Jane. And I'll watch Artem dance as a '20s gangster for ... well, forever.

 

I'm still meh on Janel, Bethany, and Sadie. Nothing any of them do ever really catches my attention. They could all be the same and I'd never notice. For me, they're literally defined by their partners. (Also, Bethany's hair is weird all the time. The red highlights that always look to me like devil's horns are just off.)

Lea gets lost in the crowd all the time.

 

Tommy is fun as a novelty. Honestly, I'd probably keep him over any of the above dancers, mostly because I like his work ethic and his attitude. And because I remember his dances as more than "oh yeah, that one girl doing that not-ballroom routine".

 

Alfonso for the win. He's not always perfect, but he's miles ahead of the others. And he always seems so upbeat and positive and so chill about this whole competition.

[Andiethewestie]

I certainly hope not given that Sadie has not trained in dance for a decade and a half like most kids that audition for SYTYCD have.

 

You may not like Mark's choreography but I consider his piece more in keeping with Contemporary whereas Val's was more Lyrical, which generally is more balletic and follows the constructs of ballet, which include pretty pointed perfect feet.

 

 

It was for last night, which is why they weren't below for the elimination - I think it's going to confuse a lot of folks because it wasn't really thoroughly explained.

Deliver me from the craptastic  "give me an apple " captain obvious props contemporary, because it's not working, it's the I can't emote  and mechanical trying to emote contemporary, since what I saw on tour with SYTYCD just last Sunday in Hamilton Ontario was Good contemporary- lyrical or otherwise, The Romeo and Juliet piece would have fit right in. 

Edited November 5, 2014 by Andiethewestie

[Andiethewestie]

Alfonso was not dancing full out last night. I noticed it very much with the dance off Jive. No comparison to the level he danced Jive in week one. I have a feeling Alfonso is still nursing the groin injury. Having said that....Alfonso not dancing full out is still better than any other celeb's full effort this season .

The truth is not where you start but where you finish.  Alfonso didn't start out so hot on his jive last night but he finished well. Lea did way better to start the jive but she lost focus near the end and lost the round.  It would have been fun to watch Alfonso lose, he's a sore loser, everytime someone posts a higher score and they put the camera on him he's pissed.  We've made a drinking game out of it here.  

[vibeology]

Alfonso was not dancing full out last night. I noticed it very much with the dance off Jive. No comparison to the level he danced Jive in week one. I have a feeling Alfonso is still nursing the groin injury. Having said that....Alfonso not dancing full out is still better than any other celeb's full effort this season .

 

He limped up the stairs after his dance so I'm pretty sure he's in a great deal of pain still. I appreciate that he's still pushing week after week and not really talking about the injury. 

[NextIteration]

I am not particularly invested in Lea, but she has a great body period, regardless of age.

 

I was struck that she's very thin, against her memories of being called too chubby for ballet.  Not one other person in this cast, could have pulled off the beautiful lift that she did in that dance.

 

Quinn--it's an interesting theory but from what little I know about dancing from watching this show and especially SYTYCD, doing lifts is really hard to do well and not something you'd do with an untalented partner.

 

That, is totally dependent on the type of lift executed.

 

The Romeo and Juliet piece would have fit right in. 

 

IMHO that is a terrible insult to trained dancers.

[SnarkyTart]

It was an okay episode for me.  The dance of the night was definitely Cheryl and Tony's Argentine tango.  That looked smoking, and made me sad not to see all of it. 

 

Alfonso is probably not going to fully recover from that groin injury for the duration of the show.  That's a bummer, because he's clearly the most talented dancer of this group.  it would have been so fun to see him actually grow and improve with all the practicing, getting in better shape, and weight loss.  Instead, he's never going to be as good as he was in the first few weeks.  Still, he's enough better than the rest of the stars that he should and probably will win.  Bonus points for being such a likable guy and for an outstanding partnership with Witney.   Other than the Cheryl/Tony dance, highlights of the night:  Alfonso's courage when trapped on the zipline and Witney saying Alfonso was the most clumsy as she hit herself in the face with the paddle. 

 

For me, Janel was a close second to Alfonso last night.  Bonus points for Val maturing into a seemingly pretty classy/nice guy.   He handles criticism well, even when it's clearly unjustified.  More bonus points for Val and Janel for having the wisdom to drop the ridiculous showmance thing.  As a result, I'm liking their partnership better, and I honestly think their chemistry has improved.  

 

Bethany and Sadie tied for third.  As usual, I forget Lea and wouldn't be a bit surprised to see her go home before Tommy.  Poor Tommy and his aching body and brain, but at least I think he's still having fun.  Lea, not so much.

 

Michael getting sent home might be my favorite moment of this whole season.  The man could hardly come off any more creepy if he tried.  I feared he was going to molest Emma on the dance floor last night and I needed brain bleach after the center stage farewell groping.  So glad he's gone.  So, so glad.

[spanana]

While I do think Janel pulled off the lifts in her dance very well, as compared to say the lifts she did in her burlesque routine with Artem, I think the penchant for lifting her is more born out of her size.  She's so tiny and petite that I think she's fairly easy to throw around.  I'm not suggesting lifts are easy, either for the lifter or the lifted, but I do agree with the idea that there are varying degrees of difficulty when it comes to lifts and I'm not sure that any of the lifts in that routine were overly difficult for a beginner.  But that doesn't matter as long as they are done well and look pleasing to the audience.

 

Whereas there is no way Mark could do half those same lifts with Sadie, not because Sadie is less talented necessarily, but because of Sadie's size.  Basically what works for Janel would never work for Sadie and vice versa.  Janel is getting increasingly better at lifts, but Sadie is stronger at side by side work.  

 

The Lea thing.  I think she's incredibly frustrated, but I'd also guess part of the reason she's falling off down the homestretch is that she is back to shooting Switched at Birth.  I'm not sure how many days a week she films, but she's pulling double duty on DWTS and her show.   So I imagine she's also just beyond exhausted trying to handle both at once.  I know it's not really an excuse as people should know what they are getting into when they sign up for the show at this point, but I also don't think it's a coincidence that Lea started struggling around the time her show came back from hiatus.

Edited November 5, 2014 by spanana

[sinkwriter]

 

More bonus points for Val and Janel for having the wisdom to drop the ridiculous showmance thing.

 

I think I'd feel it was dropped if they hadn't been given Romeo and Juliet for their dance. Even if they're not perpetuating it this week, the showrunners are, which annoys and makes me weary.

[crossover]

I also wondered about her being uncomfortable with the hand on her butt but apparently no problems with having her crotch in her face. But I'm wondering if it was just me or did anyone else feel an undercurrent of . . . exasperation maybe? . . . in Mark's voice when Sadie asked if his hand had to be on her butt during the lift? No one else has mentioned it, so maybe I'm just imagining it, but when Mark said yes it did, I just got a vibe like maybe he's getting tired of the micromanaging and the 'modesty' stuff and was kind of wishing she'd just shut up and do what needs to be done.

I noticed how affectionate he was toward Bethany when the 4 of them were going upstairs but he wasn't with Sadie.  I'm sure he respects her but he does appear frustrated.

[Serendi]

From the Afterbuzz TV Aftershow:

 

Per Henry: They didn't plan the dance-off dances. Emma started with a fringy skirt and ended up with a different one after she found out what she was dancing.

 

Also, the Royal Couple was Henry and Sharna dancing the royal wedding of William and Kate, which I totally didn't recognize. 

 

Other stuff, too, that's just what stuck in my head.

[Andiethewestie]

I was struck that she's very thin, against her memories of being called too chubby for ballet.  Not one other person in this cast, could have pulled off the beautiful lift that she did in that dance.

 

 

That, is totally dependent on the type of lift executed.

 

 

IMHO that is a terrible insult to trained dancers.

IMHO Every ballroom and latin dance executed by the non-pros is a "terrible" insult to trained ballroom and latin dancing, and yet a full blown tour is created with the addition of guest stars who aren't experts. Go figure.

 

Rather, I applaud the gorgeous shapes and movement Val was able to create, loved the fluidity of movement, loved the musicality of the piece, loved that part where Janel lies prone across his thighs, to echo Juliette's untimely death. Janel and Val didn't do this in isolation. Val is someone who has been closely watching contemporary movement, Janel acknowledges the assistance of Serge Onik and Allison voluteered to assist as well. And, while he's not an expert in it, Val certainly has the facility to be extremely creative. I thought it was a piece that was  just as worthy as Tabitha and Napoleon the hip hop experts creating a contemporary ballroom/lyrical partner piece for singer Ed Sheeran's video.  Or Tyce Diorio creating all the dance sections of Taylor Swifts "shake it off"   

Edited November 5, 2014 by Andiethewestie

[kitcloudkicker]

From the Afterbuzz TV Aftershow:

....

Other stuff, too, that's just what stuck in my head.

 

The stuff that stuck in my head was Henry dropping trio spoilers for next week, which included that Derek and Bethany are dancing with Tony - that got a reaction of "Whaaa, Derek wanted Tony? In what world do those two work together?" Which I like, because I like when things get shaken up, the pros act professional and work together, and fans who have been facing off with pitchforks have to deal with that reality. 

 

Other trios were

 

Whitney, Alfonso and Lindsey (SYTYCD trio the redux)

Janel, Val, and Keo

Peta, Tommy and Sharna

Artem, Lea and Henry

Mark, Sadie and Emma

[hurdygurdy]

I like Lindsay, but since this is Cheryl's last season, I was hoping to see a Three's Company trio in which Cheryl and Witney play Joyce DeWitt and Suzanne Somers. Please come back next season, Cheryl!

Did Henry say what the themes were for the trio dances?

[howmanywords]

There are a bunch of post show interviews floating around and I got from them (at least the ones I watched anyway) that Sadie & Mark will dance with Emma, Peta & Tommy have for the trio Jazz and will dance with Sharna and Alfonso & Witney will dance Trio Paso Doble with Lindsey Arnold. 

[Woodrose]

Trios will return!  I'm pleased; it's a gimmick they've introduced in the last few years that I have consistently enjoyed, unlike some of the others.  A couple of my favorite dances of all time (I have a long list) are trio dances:  Maria, Derek and Henry doing a Bollywood-themed Samba, Shawn, Derek, and Mark in a jungle Samba, and Donald, Peta, and Karina in the fastest, most energetic jive humanly possible. 

 

If the above list is correct, I suspect Mark has made a mistake in picking Emma for the trio.  I thought all the pros had learned that they needed to pick a pro of the same gender as themselves, in order to avoid having the celeb look bad next to the guest pro of their own gender, or else having the pro be the star of the piece with the celeb and the guest pro framing the pro (see the jive by Karina, Apolo, and Sasha -- a fun number, well danced, but Karina was the star of the piece).

 

One of the gimmicks I don't prefer seeing included are the dance-offs.  The pros and celebs are tired and overwhelmed trying to prepare dances for us in a very limited timeframe.  It's stupid and guarantees poorer performances to require them to learn four dances in a week, when the audience will only get to see them perform two of them. Such a waste of their limited time and enegy.

 

No opening pro dance?  Almost not worth putting on the show without it.  Even if the opening number only features troupe dancers and the eliminated pros, since the still-competing pros have a lot on their plate, I want to see an opening number each week. Note to TPTB: the opening number is not an optional bit!

 

The best dance of the night for me, the only dance worth rewatching, was Alfonso and Witney once again, and they are my far and away preferred MBT winners this season. I'm hoping for a final two of Alfonso and Sadie, so that Witney and her mentor are the final two pros standing, with Witney winning her first trophy.  I'm sure it would make Mark happy, too.

 

It's funny to see how ready Peta is to go home these last couple of weeks -- she can't believe it when they are called safe.  Tommy and Peta are a sweet, charming couple, and Peta has really become likeable for me this season, but I do hope they go home next, for Tommy's sake.  Give the old guy a break, with multiple dances per week this is just too tough a job for a senior citizen.

 

The best part (oops, second best -- first being Tony and Cheryl's AT) of Dynamic Duo night:  no troupe in the dances!  All the dances were, indeed, duos of one celeb and one pro.  Two people on the floor, no more and no less.  Reminded me of the olden days of DWTS.

[jhlipton]

I just hate Romeo and Juliet. I hate any love story based on it. (How you doing, WSS) Its not really a love story at all; two dumb hormonal kids get married so they can have sex and then a series of stupid choices and unfortunate events end up getting them and pretty much every one they know killed. Not romantic, and I don't think it was supposed to be. It's a story about the destructive power of passion.

I love this so much I want to marry it and have its children.

Also, Juliet is definately 13 and Romeo is anywhere from 18 to his mid 20's. Yeah.

[Serendi]

Mark is well aware it's better to have a male pro with a female contestant in the trios.

Apparently, the pros talk ahead about who they want, and it's usually respected. Then they pick, starting with the lowest-scoring couple. Someone stole Mark's preferred male pro, and he is PEEVED; it came up in several press interviews. The next available choices were too short or too tall, and no one was juuust right. So he picked Emma.

[vibeology]

Mark is well aware it's better to have a male pro with a female contestant in the trios.

Apparently, the pros talk ahead about who they want, and it's usually respected. Then they pick, starting with the lowest-scoring couple. Someone stole Mark's preferred male pro, and he is PEEVED; it came up in several press interviews. The next available choices were too short or too tall, and no one was juuust right. So he picked Emma.

 

So Artem "stole" Henry from Mark then? No one else really makes sense. Keo is tall, Tony is tall, Sasha is probably far too short for Sadie. Well, that's tough shit for Mark. I can't imagine Artem chose someone just to screw with Mark; he's worked with Henry in the troupe and wants to give Lea the best dance he can. He gets to pick first and he picked who he wanted. Being "peeved" about it is childish and pathetic. What's Artem supposed to do, pick his second choice so Mark can have whoever he wants? Its amazing how it only took Mark two weeks to go from positive, upbeat and hardworking to pissy and childish every time he sees an open mic. 

[luvthepros]

My #1 favorite trio dance ever is Jazz danced by Corbin, Karina and Witney.

[katha]

That's not how I understood Serendi's post? I took it to mean that the pros talked ahead of time, whoever took the male pro Mark wanted didn't say so beforehand (and possibly made it seem like they would take someone else), leaving Mark to scramble for a quick alternative solution. And they're doing foxtrot for the trio, so height might be a more pressing issue than in other dances. Did I get that right?

 

And I don't agree that Mark's been all upbeat before the last two weeks. He's had issues with the scoring throughout the season and has said so throughout the season. He's for the most part really good and patient with Sadie (and her tiresome family) and IMO has been doing outstanding choreography, but the attitude's been there throughout. The edit in the package just made it more obvious this time around.

 

I don't mind, it's not a dealbreaker for me. The show features a lot of manipulated, scripted BS, ditto the "judging". So I don't really perceive it as "unsportsmanlike". The scores stay vaguely plausible for the most part, doesn't make it a "real competition". The tiresome part for me with Mark is...he's done this often enough. He knows it's often random and inconsistent judging. He knows that his choreo tends towards the extreme and is therefore not always a hit with everybody. (That's not a knock, I think Mark is the most interesting choreographer on the show because of this. But the downside is that when he's been off-base and misguided with his ideas, the results are absurd and terrible in a way the misfires of the other pros aren't. They're more outrageously and spectacularly horrible, heh.) Why not just do your thing and don't focus so much on the scoring? OTOH, I don't know what it's like to live and work for 3,4 months in a bubble like that. Depending on personality structure, perhaps it gets more to some people than others. Just like many of the other pros couldn't handle someone like Bristol Palin, because they don't have the patience for that.

[kitcloudkicker]

So Artem "stole" Henry from Mark then? No one else really makes sense. Keo is tall, Tony is tall, Sasha is probably far too short for Sadie. Well, that's tough shit for Mark. I can't imagine Artem chose someone just to screw with Mark; he's worked with Henry in the troupe and wants to give Lea the best dance he can. He gets to pick first and he picked who he wanted. Being "peeved" about it is childish and pathetic. What's Artem supposed to do, pick his second choice so Mark can have whoever he wants? Its amazing how it only took Mark two weeks to go from positive, upbeat and hardworking to pissy and childish every time he sees an open mic. 

 

Why worried about too tall though? If Janel can dance with Keo, Sadie damn well could - she's taller than Janel and I think Bethany as well. By picking from lowest scores to highest, if they include the bonus points from the dance off, that puts Mark picking before Keo and Tony were taken. Is it because MARK would have an issue dancing next to a taller pro? Because if so - hahahahaha.

[RetailTherapy]

I often feel that Mark gets drowned in the proverbial tongue baths showered on Derek about all of that amazeballs choreography, when it's really Mark who is the creative one.  At this point, it's gotten to be the same dance moves/flappy hand jive season after season after season with Derek.  It's old and tired.  Mark, on the other hand, overuses the spats but his dances always seem new every season.

 

Having said that, I would imagine there is a lot of frustration in dealing with an entire family of quacks with the conflicting desires of national attention of weekly live tv and to have Sadie wearing a burka.

 

Hate these threesome dances.  I don't mind the gimmicky ones - the dynamic duos was kind of cute.  But I miss the simplicity of a pro and their "star" dancing ballroom routines every week.

[spanana]

I'm still confused about how the trio picking went down, but my understanding is both Derek and Val originally wanted Tony so I don't think Mark was ever going to get Tony.  Supposedly Val agreed that Tony was a better fit for the AT with Bethany as opposed to a salsa with Janel and agreed to let Derek have Tony.  Then he went with Keo, which makes sense for a salsa.   I can understand Mark not using Sasha as he would be too short to pair with Sadie.  Which basically leaves Mark and Artem duking it out for Henry.

 

I actually think the bigger issue here is that there just weren't a lot of male pros to choose from.  Most of the eliminated contestants have been male celebs with female pros, so it's basically Tony, Keo, Henry and Sasha unless they were allowed to use people no longer on the show, which it doesn't seem like they were allowed to do.

 

This is actually Val's third salsa trio.  The first two were with Gleb and both were perfect scoring routines.   Though I guess that is sort of moot since Elizabeth Berkely got a perfect score for her trio and was promptly eliminated in the same show.  But I don't think there is any coincidence that Val got a trio salsa yet again.

[mtlchick]

 

I often feel that Mark gets drowned in the proverbial tongue baths showered on Derek about all of that amazeballs choreography, when it's really Mark who is the creative one.

I agree.  With Mark it's "I don't get it, but it's different."  With Derek it's "I get it.  And how many times has he dipped into that well for this?"

[Andiethewestie]

I just watched Henry on Afterbuzz and yep, nodding my head in agreement that Janel and Val's Contemporary had a SYTYCD contemporary quality to it.  Positive words for this team insofar as their journey to week 8.  Henry definitely saw the strength that Janel demonstrated with that piece, and good to hear there are no longer grumblings of an "early boot" for this team.      

[kitcloudkicker]

I'm still confused about how the trio picking went down, but my understanding is both Derek and Val originally wanted Tony so I don't think Mark was ever going to get Tony.  Supposedly Val agreed that Tony was a better fit for the AT with Bethany as opposed to a salsa with Janel and agreed to let Derek have Tony.  Then he went with Keo, which makes sense for a salsa.   I can understand Mark not using Sasha as he would be too short to pair with Sadie.  Which basically leaves Mark and Artem duking it out for Henry.

 

Right but if it went in the orders of lowest to highest scores from this week, Mark should have picked before Derek and Val. I guess if he honored the "dibs" Val and Derek had on Tony and Keo, he was left with only poor unwanted Sasha as the too short one. "Too tall" might just be his excuse for not having to explain to reporters the dibs system? 

[Andiethewestie]

So Artem "stole" Henry from Mark then? No one else really makes sense. Keo is tall, Tony is tall, Sasha is probably far too short for Sadie. Well, that's tough shit for Mark. I can't imagine Artem chose someone just to screw with Mark; he's worked with Henry in the troupe and wants to give Lea the best dance he can. He gets to pick first and he picked who he wanted. Being "peeved" about it is childish and pathetic. What's Artem supposed to do, pick his second choice so Mark can have whoever he wants? Its amazing how it only took Mark two weeks to go from positive, upbeat and hardworking to pissy and childish every time he sees an open mic. 

Yeah, I don't get Mark at the best of times.  Mark seems to be "that guy" whenever it comes to these types of things, his uber competitive nature kicks in instead of thinking smarter- (egged on by Shirley and Corky no doubt )  I remember when 'the pick on your own size' dance off happened, Val said it because just prior to their dance off, Mark with Aly Reisman selected the easy win, by challenging   Sharna and Andy Dick , Dick grew to be a fan fave even though his dancing wasn't up to the leaders. Aly was clearly a top 4 contestant and there were others (Zendaya or Jacoby)  that they could have went against, but, that's Mark.   Now no one does what he did, it's considered bad form, as witnessed by the rather long explanation of why Alfonso picked Lea to dance off against.  I actually feel for Artem, not only was his choice his right, as Henry explained, he needs to have a good trio since Lea is on the bubble and didn't get the America's choice dance they needed..  

Edited November 5, 2014 by Andiethewestie

[Andiethewestie]

Right but if it went in the orders of lowest to highest scores from this week, Mark should have picked before Derek and Val. I guess if he honored the "dibs" Val and Derek had on Tony and Keo, he was left with only poor unwanted Sasha as the too short one. "Too tall" might just be his excuse for not having to explain to reporters the dibs system? 

 

I'mma just gonna put it out there. The Robertsons are micromanaging Sadie's time on this show, Sadie needs approval on who she dances with, and therefore it's doubtful that Keo would be considered acceptable.  That would frustrate the bejesus out of the pro.  

[howmanywords]

Carrie Ann said in her Parade.com blog that she got negative comments on Facebook from Mark's mom *rolls eyes. I have more respect for those, even the ones I dont like who just take criticism like an adult and learn from your mistakes.

[Uke]

Yeah, I don't get Mark at the best of times.  Mark seems to be "that guy" whenever it comes to these types of things, his uber competitive nature kicks in instead of thinking smarter- (egged on by Shirley and Corky no doubt )  I remember when 'the pick on your own size' dance off happened, Val said it because just prior to their dance off, Mark with Aly Reisman selected the easy win, by challenging   Sharna and Andy Dick , Dick grew to be a fan fave even though his dancing wasn't up to the leaders. Aly was clearly a top 4 contestant and there were others (Zendaya or Jacoby)  that they could have went against, but, that's Mark.   Now no one does what he did, it's considered bad form, as witnessed by the rather long explanation of why Alfonso picked Lea to dance off against.  I actually feel for Artem, not only was his choice his right, as Henry explained, he needs to have a good trio since Lea is on the bubble and didn't get the America's choice dance they needed..  

 

As was well-reported at the time, the pros got together ahead of time to pick the challenges.

Aly had only learned Cha Cha but hadn't yet learned Jive or Rumba

Andy wanted Cha Cha

Zendaya had already learned Cha Cha + Jive and did not want Rumba

Jacoby had aleady learned all 3 dances

Ingo + Sean did Rumba that same night so the challenge was just a re-do of the same dances.

 

So although Mark took some heat for picking Andy (weakest dancer) and Val pumped his chest about picking someone his own size, it was all planned for what the stars had already learned so they wouldn't have to start from scratch learning a new dance just for the challenge.

[truthaboutluv]

Afterbuzz was interesting this week even though I disagreed with some of what they said but I always enjoy hearing a different perspective on things. I've admitted that I do have some bias about contemporaries on this show because of some of the truly amazing ones I've seen on SYTYCD so I definitely can't say I shared their enthusiasm about Janel and Val's dance but I appreciated their comments. The biggest surprise for me was how they all thought Bethany was way underscored. Interesting...maybe the judges and producers knew to not give them a perfect score no matter what, since that would have created a tie with Janel which Bethany would have won based on cumulative scores. And what fun that would have been with Derek winning a third immunity in a row.

 

I will say on rewatch, I did like the part of the dance when Derek was playing the pots because it actually gave Bethany a chance to be on her own for a good 20 seconds or so and I think that showed a nice trust in her ability on Derek's part. She was up front and center with no assist from him. That said, I saw the mistake Henry mentioned on the first watch, where she was slightly off balance getting up off the floor. And so while I get what Henry was saying about it maybe not being that big of a deal, if a mistake is noticeable to my untrained eyes, then it's noticeable enough where I can understand the judges marking down for it. 

 

As for Mark, I'm not sure Jake is right saying "people are talking about it so it's great for them." Uh not so much if what people are talking about is how Mark is coming off whiny and petulant rather than agreeing with him. As for the Trio drama, I'm a little torn. I guess if it's something they all sat around discussing and Artem never brought up possibly wanting Henry for himself (for example, I guess according to the gossip Val and Derek discussed both wanting Tony and figured it out between them) and then chose him at that moment where Mark was completely unprepared, I can see why he'd be pissed. But again, if it happened already, shake it off and move on and don't get all petulant about it. Then again, these are the moments when I remember that Mark is an only child. Sure, Julianne and Derek were like pseudo-siblings to him but he's still more or less an only child. And when his mom is getting upset at Carrie Ann on Facebook when he's almost 30, no wonder he can still act like a petulant brat. 

 

The tiresome part for me with Mark is...he's done this often enough. He knows it's often random and inconsistent judging. He knows that his choreo tends towards the extreme and is therefore not always a hit with everybody. (That's not a knock, I think Mark is the most interesting choreographer on the show because of this. But the downside is that when he's been off-base and misguided with his ideas, the results are absurd and terrible in a way the misfires of the other pros aren't. They're more outrageously and spectacularly horrible, heh.)

 

 

This exactly. As I've said, yes Mark is creative and can create brilliant pieces. However, the problem I've found with him is that sometimes he can get so caught up in his "genius and vision" that he does so to the detriment of his celebrity. In other words, sometimes he focuses less on what would make his celebrity look their best and what will work best for them because he's so wrapped up in his vision and how awesome it will be, that the technique and the dance itself will suffer. And then he'll get pouty and declare that the judges just don't appreciate creativity or thinking outside the box. Like I said last week and I'll say again this week, the problem with that zombie apocalypse Paso is that it did nothing for Sadie in my opinion. She did get overwhelmed and lost in the dance and on top of that, her technique wasn't great. Sure maybe the 7's were way too low but I didn't think they deserved anything higher than an 8 and something tells me he would have bitched about all 8's too because he clearly thought the dance was far more amazing than it actually was.

Edited November 5, 2014 by truthaboutluv

[spanana]

I don't have a full opinion on the trio madness because it greatly depends on how it played out.  Like said, I can understand Mark being a little pissed off if the male pros talked it out ahead of time and Artem didn't express that he was going to choose Henry and so Mark was caught completely off guard during the choosing.  We have four female celebs remaining and only four male pros to choose from, so it's not like they had an endless choice of dancers.  Also I highly doubt that Sadie and family would have refused to let her dance with Keo.  I'm guessing Mark already knew that Derek wanted Tony and Val wanted Keo and probably figured he was in the clear for Henry.  But if Mark was upset, that is also the kind of crap you keep to yourself and/or vent about with your friends/family.  Mark venting to the media just continues to make him look bad.

 

I like Shirley Ballas well enough, but if she is sending not so nice Facebook messages to Carrie Anne then she needs to back off.  Mark is supposed to be an adult and should be able to handle his own battles.  It also only serves to make Mark look bad and it's also not going to inspire the judges to be any nicer to Sadie/Mark moving forward.  

 

It just seems completely idiotic on Mark's part to be pissing off the judges and potentially turning off voters when we are three weeks from the finale and he actually has an outside shot of winning this thing.  Especially when you've got Bethany improving week to week (I actually think she's the most improved dancer here) and Janel coming off of her strongest dance of the season (IMO).

 

As for the S16 dance off, at this point pretty much everyone from that season has publicly stated that they had it all worked out ahead of time.  At least once they knew Kellie had immunity anyway.  So while it may not have appeared all that great to the at home viewers that Aly chose Andy Dick, that was what all parties wanted.  I like Val, but I still don't fully understand what he was shooting his mouth off about there since it had already been decided that they were going to jive against Jacoby.

Edited November 5, 2014 by spanana

[sinkwriter]

 

At this point, it's gotten to be the same dance moves/flappy hand jive season after season after season with Derek.  It's old and tired.

 

I have watched this show sporadically over the years, so I'm not tired of Derek or his choreography yet. That said... I wish he'd stop doing certain moves what feels like every week. For example, the move where his dance partner dips backward and he catches her by the back of the neck. I feel like that happens in EVERY dance he does. If he does it one more time, my eyes are going to roll right out of their sockets. He's still a young guy; he can't be out of ideas yet. Mix it up, Derek!

 

Sometimes I wonder if he plays it too safe with his choreography, in order to stay in good standing with judges and voters, playing to what's been known to work rather than daring to go outside the box with something bold that might not be loved by all.

Edited November 5, 2014 by sinkwriter

[majormama]

I love the trio dances. My personal favorite is Leah Remini, Tony, and Henry's (I think?) lampooning of the judges. Leah isn't usually my cup of tea, but Tony's Bruno impression was hilarious! It's one of the few dances I have gone back to watch beyond the week/season it aired. 

 

I don't like contemporary AT ALL, so I can't say I liked either Sadie's or Janel's dances. I can appreciate they both did a good job with them, but I didn't enjoy them. There was a moment in Janel's where Val picked her up and carried her for a few steps where her legs were dangling like a rag doll. It really looked off to me. I don't have the technical knowledge to pinpoint why it looked weird, but it just wasn't...controlled maybe? It's like carrying a child who is awake and supporting itself vs a sleeping child who's dead weight. She wasn't doing whatever she needed to do to support her own legs. Does that make any sense? Probably not.

 

Thank goodness Michael is gone. I'm so glad they put trousers under his loin cloth, but the whole costume was weird.

[truthaboutluv]

I like Val, but I still don't fully understand what he was shooting his mouth off about there since it had already been decided that they were going to jive against Jacoby.

 

 

As I recall, his main comment was that he wanted to go against Kellie but couldn't since they won Immunity, so he would pick Jacoby and then he added the wanting to pick on someone their own size. What I always got from that is that Val being super competitive, had this need I guess to prove he could beat the "best" which is fine, but yeah the comment had the potential of sounding pretentious which is how it did to many. 

 

For example, the move where his dance partner dips backward and he catches her by the back of the neck. I feel like that happens in EVERY dance he does.

 

 

I don't remember seeing it for every dance but he has done it everytime he has a salsa or mambo. However I'm not sure, but I think that is if not a signature move but at least very common move for that dance style so it kind of doesn't bother me. And I think that's a key factor for me when it comes to all the choreography on the show. I do think there is and always will be an element of repetition because all of the ballroom dances include specific moves and requirement that makes them a Paso or a Tango or Quickstep, etc. 

Edited November 5, 2014 by truthaboutluv

[Julie23]

Lea started out as my favorite, but the choreography does not do her justice, she needs to step it up to make the finals. Probably deserved the score she got. 

Janel - I haven't warmed up to her since her puss-faces at the beginning, and I think she does well on lifts and leg kicks, but not so much real ballroom finesse.

Sadie - Getting real sick of the "virgin bride" routine and specially sick of her family. Did she ever watch this show before she agreed to be on it? Didn't she see the revealing outfits? If you don't agree with what the dancers wear, just don't be on the show. She seems like a nice girl, and is improving each week as a dancer, but please stop with the duck dynasty crap, I do not need to see your ridiculous looking father in the audience every week.

Bethany - My second-favorite. I think she has improved the most, and is so into character with every dance. Love her positive attitude too!

Alfonso - By far my favorite, and in my opinion the best dancer. He brings it every week, and I love his humor. 

Tommy - Sorry, dude, you should be next to go. It is getting uncomfortable watching you try.

[sinkwriter]

 

I think that is if not a signature move but at least very common move for that dance style

 

I just wish there was a way to spice it up a little. Maybe find a way to do it a little differently than usual. Or there must be other moves that could be done instead. But then I suppose that could be said for any of the moves that are standard for specific dances. 

[truthaboutluv]

I just wish there was a way to spice it up a little. Maybe find a way to do it a little differently than usual. Or there must be other moves that could be done instead. But then I suppose that could be said for any of the moves that are standard for specific dances.

 

 

I get that but sometimes it's a catch-22 because in Derek's case for example, if he throws in too many things to make it different and spice it up, he gets accused of using tricks and props to hide his celebrity.

[Andiethewestie]

As was well-reported at the time, the pros got together ahead of time to pick the challenges.

Aly had only learned Cha Cha but hadn't yet learned Jive or Rumba

Andy wanted Cha Cha

Zendaya had already learned Cha Cha + Jive and did not want Rumba

Jacoby had aleady learned all 3 dances

Ingo + Sean did Rumba that same night so the challenge was just a re-do of the same dances.

 

So although Mark took some heat for picking Andy (weakest dancer) and Val pumped his chest about picking someone his own size, it was all planned for what the stars had already learned so they wouldn't have to start from scratch learning a new dance just for the challenge.

Yeah  I'd like to know who was the "reporter" about this, because as Henry clearly stated on Afterbuzz,  for This dance off Emma was not prepared for the Rumba and scrambled to get a rumba dress on.

 

So I think Mark was just being the overly competitive guy he's always been, he could have picked Zendaya for cha cha, as I recall Zendaya's flapper style dress was similar to both the Cha Cha and the Jive. In fact, at the commercial break she ran to change her latin shoes to sneakers when she learned of the style.  

Edited November 5, 2014 by Andiethewestie

[Andiethewestie]

I just wish there was a way to spice it up a little. Maybe find a way to do it a little differently than usual. Or there must be other moves that could be done instead. But then I suppose that could be said for any of the moves that are standard for specific dances. 

 

That neck catch is not a required element in any Latin or Ballroom dance. 

[Mbeaker]

Yeah I'd like to know who was the "reporter" about this

It came from the horse's mouth. Several pros and celebs of season 16 revealed this in interviews.

[Mbeaker]

http://www.tvguide.com/News/Dancing-Derek-Hough-1064945.aspx

Not going to bother searching for more. I very vividly remember Karina, Sharna, and Aly echoing this.

[Mbeaker]

In the same way that Karina said both Jacoby and Zendaya had voiced ahead of time that they wanted the jive, and that's how that dance-off came to be, that's how Aly and Andy were paired off. So agree to disagree because in that instance there was nothing asshole-ish about it. His behavior this last week? Well, that's a different story.

And as a side-note, nowhere in that blog does Derek mention this happening during a commercial break.

Edited November 5, 2014 by Mbeaker

[spanana]

I know it was mentioned in several interviews and blogs from that season and this article isn't the best source but it quotes tweets from Mark, Aly, Sharna and Andy Dick.  Sharna and Andy confirmed that they discussed it ahead of time and they were the only ones that wanted cha cha. 

 

http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/s92/dancingwiththestars/news/a477576/dwts-mark-ballas-aly-raisman-defend-andy-dick-dance-off-choice.html#~oUM9ZuwUB8CZOH