S01.E04: Going Rogue

[Trini]

From the PTV recap:

 

S.T.A.R. Labs Tour!

In the most egregious breach of DC superhero security since Alfred Pennyworth ushered Vicky Vale into the Batcave, Barry shows the inner sanctum to Felicity. He also blurts to Caitlin and Cisco that she works with the Arrow, so at least his indiscretion goes both ways....

Gah! This really bothered me. I know that the writers wanted to get Felicity working with the Flash Mob (heh!) as quickly as possible, but her working with the Arrow is kinda a big secret, Barry!

 

 

... I'm done with Arrow, so it was really nice to see Felicity because it's the only way I'm getting to see her these days, and I actually liked her here more than I often did on Arrow (I'm not an Olicity fan - she's way too good for Oliver). I think I might be shipping her with Barry a little, though - they are really cute, and his chemistry with her is so much better than with either Iris (with whom it's so sibling it hurts) or Caitlyn (whose actress is just not good). ...

Oh, I 'ship them a lot, and it's annoying that the show/s acknowledges that they're perfect for each other, but they can't be together because "we're on two different shows and we have to spend time with those other 'love' interests instead".

 

And for the record, I think Barry and Iris have good chemistry too; but he's firmly in the "brother zone", so nothing is going to happen with that soon. I actually really like that they've shown them as good friends.

Edited November 2, 2014 by Trini

[FurryFury]

Oh, I 'ship them a lot, and it's annoying that the show/s acknowledges that they're perfect for each other, but they can't be together because "we're on two different shows and we have to spend time with those other 'love' interests instead".

 

Hey, I'm a Buffy/Angel shipper. I'm already used to that :)

 

And for the record, I think Barry and Iris have good chemistry too; but he's firmly in the "brother zone", so nothing is going to happen with that soon. I actually really like that they've shown them as good friends.

 

They have an OK friendship/sibling chemistry, but there's, like, nothing else between them, not even a tiny possibility of it ever being anything else, both from Iris' actress and the writing. I'm just afraid that when she inevitably decides he's the one for her it will look like a contrived ass pull.

I'm still hoping they'll go the Teen Wolf route and just have Barry get over his crush the way Stiles got over Lydia.

[Big Bad Wolf]

If Cisco knew he could send software updates wirelessly to the weapon, why didn't he send it a software update to shut itself down permanently? Particularly with Felicity's computer genius there to help him. I guess that would have severely impacted the story possibilities, but still.

 

I liked Wentworth Miller in this role; it suited him. Glad he and his pretty are going to be recurring. (BTW, that spoiler about who is going to be playing Heatwave is both hilarious and awesome.)

 

The Barry/Felicity kiss was very nice. They have lots of chemistry, certainly more than Barry/Iris (although the actress is obviously much better than KC on Arrow, so it's not a total fail). EBR must be one of those actresses who can generate chemistry with anyone, as of course her chemistry with Amell on Arrow is off the charts.

 

Major dislike of the episode: Felicity turning up at the COFFEE SHOP for a TRIVIA NIGHT in a majorly sexy little black dress. She knew what kind of event she was going to, so the dress choice just made her look stupid and too 'try hard', which did her character a major disservice.

 

Why is it a problem that Iris shows no chemistry with Barry right now? She's dating another guy! It would be weird if she did at this point because it means she's leading on her boyfriend. And it's only the fourth episode. The writers will have a whole season or even multiple seasons to develop a relationship between Barry and Iris.

 

The thing is, though, for me, I want to see chemistry between the two actors, even when the story is telling us there is nothing going on. In Arrow, there was chemistry between EBR and SA from the first time they met, even though it took much, much longer for the show to recognise that in the storyline. Otherwise, if there's never any natural *spark* there, the development of a romantic relationship seems like it's being pulled out of the writers' asses just to fulfil some plan (just like what so many people are afraid of happening on Arrow, if they really do decide to shoehorn Oliver and Laurel together, even though Oliver always looks like he can barely stand to be in the same room as her).

Edited November 2, 2014 by Big Bad Wolf

[shapeshifter]

Tom Cavanagh/Wells scratched my itch when he first pronounced "Snart" as "Snark."

Crossover episodes are usually just for fun plot variations, but I thought Felicity's presence was a tidy way to help further develop the Barry/Iris relationship/non-relationship.

Eddie really could be replaced by a cardboard cut-out, couldn't he? Heh.

Edited November 2, 2014 by shapeshifter

[wingster55]

there was chemistry between EBR and SA from the first time they met, even though it took much, much longer for the show to recognise that in the storyline.

 

But it's not as though that first scene was some big romantic or sexually tense scene. It was purely a comedic then expository one...if Felicity never appeared again no one would have known how much chemistry they had. 

Barry and Iris isn't romantic because Candice isn't playing it as romantic because Iris doesn't see him that way yet. But the natural rapport the actors have plus the long history (even before Barry's dad was sent to jail) only helps imo. 

[ribboninthesky1]

I guess this is going to be a weekly thing so let's just pencil this in as my weekly "wtf are they doing with Iris rant." So basically it's not enough that the only time that Iris gets to spend with either  Joe or Barry, is when she hunts them down, now she has to run her relationships by them because it might hurt their feelings? Did the show seriously imply that Joe acted like a five year old and ignored his daughter because he didn't want her to be a police woman? Why is it that Joe is more of a father to Barry then he is to his actual daughter? Joe only remembers he has a daughter when he realizes that he needs to protect her? Why  am I supposed to root for her to wind up with Barry when the only person who seemingly gives a damn about anything she wants is Eddie?

 

Right? I'm not a Joe fan AT ALL (I just binge-watched the episodes to get current).  Also, I have no idea why a mid 20-something Iris commonly acts and is treated like a barely legal teenager. That she was so afraid of Joe that she hesitated to do the adult thing and just tell the man she and Eddie were together is not a good look.  And Joe's "explanation" about why he's bothered by Eddie and Iris (and petulantly freezing them out) was some of the dumbest shit I've heard on this show.  Which is saying something when the dialogue is already rather cringeworthy at times (thank goodness for actors who can elevate the material). 

 

I'm sure it's financially easier to live with a parent when going to school and working a (presumably) part-time job.  But I find myself hoping Iris would get her own place because dad is a controlling asshole.  Not to mention a hypocrite about the keeping secrets thing. I think there is a legitimate "wanting to protect your child" aspect of parenting, but that's definitely not what Joe is doing.    

 

For all of the "Iris and Barry have no chemistry" stuff, it really just boils down to Barry being too shy/cowardly/whatever to say how he felt.  He had plenty of time to do it before Eddie.  At least Eddie had the cojones to make a move, and doesn't hesitate to show he adores her.  I doubt I'll be watching the show when Barry/Iris eventually get together, but it would have been an interesting change of pace to just put them together early, and show them navigating the relationship, especially with Barry's new abilities.   

Edited November 2, 2014 by ribboninthesky1

[Tangerine]

I totally agree! I have no expectation of these two getting together right now. I'm sure Barry will date Caitlin and any number of others before they come together, as will Iris.

 

It reminds me of the show, Merlin. Obviously Arthur and Gwen were ultimately going to be together because, duh, but the entire first season there was no hint of a romantic attachment between them.

 

While I did love to grow Arthur and Gwen as a couple eventually, I didn't like the transition of their relationship from season 1 to season 2 because it did happen so suddenly. They barely had any interaction at all in series 1 and then by the second episode of series 2 they were in love. I just kind of felt like it needed just a little bit more set-up.

 

I like Iris as a character and enjoy her scenes with Barry. They're friendly and comfortable with each other, but if they are going to be the endgame couple, they'll have to show hints of romantic interest on her part sooner rather than later. It doesn't need to be blatant, but it needs to be there at least a little bit I think. Because I do like their friendship, and if it ends up changing dramatically without any set-up or it being earned then I think it'll do more harm than good.

Edited November 3, 2014 by Tangerine

[Ottis]

If "Captain Cold" is going to be the honcho behind gathering a team of villains, he needs a different name. Captain Cold as a name is silly.And he is only that because he happens to own a weapon that freezes people. If a teenager gets it, is the teenager now Captain Cold? The leader needs to be someone who is intrinsically evil in a particular way, not someone who stole a weapon.

[Grace19]

I finally watched the whole four episodes and I love it. Every one is great in their part. I really don't get all the Iris hate. Candice is a good actor, iris is nice, loves and supports barry. Her story line is being set up and she have good chemistry with grant even though she is not in love with him yet. I believe the chemistry will be much better when she starts showing some emotions. So I don't get the hate, its not fair on the actress and the character. People should just give her time. I'm sure if iris is a guy and barry a girl with exact same storyline people would give her time. Women get more hate on tv and that's too bad.

[arc]

If "Captain Cold" is going to be the honcho behind gathering a team of villains, he needs a different name. Captain Cold as a name is silly.And he is only that because he happens to own a weapon that freezes people. If a teenager gets it, is the teenager now Captain Cold? The leader needs to be someone who is intrinsically evil in a particular way, not someone who stole a weapon.

Snart is intrinsically evil: he's devoted his life to knocking over banks. (I feel like he could branch out, but certainly he's methodical about his career.)  He's just not intrinsically super powered.  But then again, neither is Lex Luthor (genius) nor the Joker (crazy) and they're the leaders of their respective enemies' rogues galleries...

[jbrecken]

Not to mention that there's no incarnation of Dr. Fate who would stab a person in cold blood.

There was, but he went by just Fate without the Dr. He melted the helmet down and made pointy stabby things. But this really doesn't belong here.

If Wells is supposed to be a descendant of Barry's, I don't think they'd have cast someone strictly Caucasian, so that his future with Iris could be vague.

[Kromm]

I finally watched the whole four episodes and I love it. Every one is great in their part. I really don't get all the Iris hate. Candice is a good actor, iris is nice, loves and supports barry. Her story line is being set up and she have good chemistry with grant even though she is not in love with him yet. I believe the chemistry will be much better when she starts showing some emotions. So I don't get the hate, its not fair on the actress and the character. People should just give her time. I'm sure if iris is a guy and barry a girl with exact same storyline people would give her time. Women get more hate on tv and that's too bad.

Actually I think there's been a lot of appreciation for the actress playing the part.  It's the writing that's letting her down, and it's doubly a sensitive spot with most of us I think, because overall the writing on this show has been so good. Iris is one of the few major places its fallen down.  Iris needs more to DO on the show. At this point it's like we have a much better actor playing the Smallville Lana/Arrow Laurel role.  She's a better actor, sure, but the freaking CW lead actress "don't let the main female star do anything interesting" thing (especially in Season 1 of their shows) is frustrating to see happen yet again.  In fact, doubly so on a show that's having a far better Season 1 than either of those other shows.

Edited November 4, 2014 by Kromm

[wingster55]

I don't think the writing for Iris is bad though. She'll find out, on her own but it's a journey she'll take.

[Grace19]

From the spoilers I've read, I believe the writers know what they are doing. This show is a barry allen origin story as well as iris west origin story. People just have to be patient. I like eddie too, with all the focus on wells I believe eddie is the reverse flash, he's just too perfect to be innocent.

[slayer2]

I finally watched the whole four episodes and I love it. Every one is great in their part. I really don't get all the Iris hate. Candice is a good actor, iris is nice, loves and supports barry. Her story line is being set up and she have good chemistry with grant even though she is not in love with him yet. I believe the chemistry will be much better when she starts showing some emotions. So I don't get the hate, its not fair on the actress and the character. People should just give her time. I'm sure if iris is a guy and barry a girl with exact same storyline people would give her time. Women get more hate on tv and that's too bad.

I think it's just a lot of supplemented Laurel hate which I also disagree with. The actress is good and the character has only been around 4 episodes. I really don't want another situation where everybody hates on one character times infinity. I'm just enjoying the show and all the characters, speaking of which...did it not air yesterday?

[wingster55]

speaking of which...did it not air yesterday?

 

Nope. Election night in the States.

[Shanna]

I think it's just a lot of supplemented Laurel hate which I also disagree with. The actress is good and the character has only been around 4 episodes. I really don't want another situation where everybody hates on one character times infinity. I'm just enjoying the show and all the characters, speaking of which...did it not air yesterday?

Aside from the fact that I haven't really seen much actual hate for iris (mostly just uncertainty that a romance will work), I don't think she and laurel are in any way similar. The actress has a warm presence, and I like her. I don't like the idea of her being a journalist just because of the Lois, there are other jobs! But whatever. So far she's fine and I enjoyed her being so supportive of Barry with felicity! I actually think she and her dad's partner were adorable together this episode!

The only issue I see in any way similar to laurel I the generic comic book trope of one person being left out of the secret and I hope they let her in on that quick.

[slayer2]

Nope. Election night in the States.

Ah! Thank you!

[DrLar]

I'm one of the ones thinking that Wells had to do something with the stolen weapons, wouldn't he background check his employees? specially the janitors..

 

I've never seen Arrow but I might start to if Uber hot Felicity is there every episode...

[NumberCruncher]

I'm one of the ones thinking that Wells had to do something with the stolen weapons, wouldn't he background check his employees? specially the janitors..

 

I've never seen Arrow but I might start to if Uber hot Felicity is there every episode...

Generally she is in every episode. In fact, last's nights episode centered around her and her past.

[Oscirus]

So I don't get the hate, its not fair on the actress and the character. People should just give her time. I'm sure if iris is a guy and barry a girl with exact same storyline people would give her time. Women get more hate on tv and that's too bad.

 

Misogyny accusations don't work here. Most of the hate hasn't been directed towards the actress or the character.  It's been towards the writing which has her characterization steeped in gender roles. If Barry and Iris were  to switch place, it would  be worse for him because he'd be getting treated like a "woman."

 

This show is a barry allen origin story as well as iris west origin story. People just have to be patient

 

Except Iris has an interesting story of her own and they're messing it up.  When they can't even get her reason for being  a reporter right, it's hard to be patient to see what else they're going to do with the character.

[Humbugged]

 

Major dislike of the episode: Felicity turning up at the COFFEE SHOP for a TRIVIA NIGHT in a majorly sexy little black dress. She knew what kind of event she was going to, so the dress choice just made her look stupid and too 'try hard', which did her character a major disservice.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you watched the latest Arrow episode you kind of get where the dress sense comes from when Mama Smoak turned up .

[nurse1]

I really liked this episode....I think that this show is improving alot......I not a shipper but I really thought that the scene with Barry and Iris was so cute...I see chemistry and I like that Barry is so shy around Iris and it makes him so adorable (to me)...I like this show alot

[AudienceofOne]

I not a shipper but I really thought that the scene with Barry and Iris was so cute

 

 

 

They come across as siblings to me. Combine that with the paternalism and "little women" aspect of Joe and Barry's behaviour and it makes the whole thing ... squicky. Yes, I know that's not a word.

[Izeinwinter]

Iris and Barry are siblings - That's what their history is, and that's what their chemistry is like. This makes Barry's crush just *incredibly* uncomfortable viewing for me. 2 things need to change here - He needs to stop keeping her in the dark because that noise is just bullsnot, and he really needs to get over the crush, and the writers have to never, ever, go there. It's a wonderful sibling relationship. It grounds Barry, Dont try to make it something else, and don't poison it with lies.

 

Captain Cold actually got *less* formidable when he got that gun - he was some sort of criminal genius master planner, and then bam, brain utterly turned off, lets mount frontal assaults on everything! He's a guy with a gun! A very shiny gun, but he has no special defenses whatsoever. How did he not eat a bullet or 20? Oh, right, writer fiat. Especially those criminal compatriots of his. He shot their accomplice in front of them when he wanted to quit. After that, you don't discuss severance terms with your boss, you either knuckle under, or you cap his ass. Quite a strain on my suspense of disbelief there. Heck, a scene where said underling tries to shoot him, and he reveals he sabotaged their guns? That would have been more credible and done more to establish his credentials. 

[phoenics]

Actually I think there's been a lot of appreciation for the actress playing the part.  It's the writing that's letting her down, and it's doubly a sensitive spot with most of us I think, because overall the writing on this show has been so good. Iris is one of the few major places its fallen down.  Iris needs more to DO on the show. At this point it's like we have a much better actor playing the Smallville Lana/Arrow Laurel role.  She's a better actor, sure, but the freaking CW lead actress "don't let the main female star do anything interesting" thing (especially in Season 1 of their shows) is frustrating to see happen yet again.  In fact, doubly so on a show that's having a far better Season 1 than either of those other shows.

I just don't see any real similarities (once you look deeper) between Iris and Laurel and the comparisons just baffle me. Unless it's just fan baggage - which is really unfair to Iris (and Candice).

[phoenics]

Iris and Barry are siblings - That's what their history is, and that's what their chemistry is like. This makes Barry's crush just *incredibly* uncomfortable viewing for me. 2 things need to change here - He needs to stop keeping her in the dark because that noise is just bullsnot, and he really needs to get over the crush, and the writers have to never, ever, go there. It's a wonderful sibling relationship. It grounds Barry, Dont try to make it something else, and don't poison it with lies.

In my opinion (and apparently a lot of westalleners on tumblr), it's not a sibling relationship. Best friends? Yes. But after Barry's confession, I expect that to change eventually. Especially if Barry moves on to an interim relationship.

Plus Barry has now admitted (to Iris) that he loved Iris BEFORE he moved in with her and her dad - so that marks "PAID" to the "but they're siblings!" objection.

I never saw sibling chemistry with them - I saw chemistry - and even more chemistry with Iris and the Flash.

I can't wait for them to finally go there with Iris and Barry.

[Actionmage]

This episode is being rerun this evening, Church of Scofield adherants and the rest of us, too. *g*

[marketdoctor]

On the re-watch, I was impressed with how well EBR was able to provide romantic complexity and comic relief at the same time.

Happy Hannukah, Felicity! (She's a super-hacker and can read posts from alternate worlds.)

[Trini]

Now that I know more about the special effects, I noticed that in the scene where the Flash is shot by Capt. Cold at the theater, the 'digital double' doesn't have a shadow when he(it?) falls to the ground.  #thingsyounoticeonrewatch