S02.E06: And The Abyss Gazes Back

[Ann Mack]

Yes, for me you are wrong. I don't find Hawley necessary to the story at all. As I have stated, everything he has done could have been accomplished by Jenny due to her travels for Corbin. She could have picked up both the artifacts and the knowledge. Hell, Abbie already knew some of the area Native Americans and could have come up with that connection.

ETA: For fucks sake, as soon as Jenny uttered the phrase "I know a guy" she's been seen what, two minutes per episode, tops? So yeah, I want his ass gone. Plus, to me he is not even eye candy, just grungy.

It is fine that you do not agree with what I have stated. However, I did not state this as fact. There is no litmus test on an opinion to determine whether it is wrong or right. This is my perception and how I chose to express it. You have a different opinion which is fine, so we agree to disagree with each others "opinion".

[DHDancer]

 giving her free reign 

 

BIG PEEVE:  It's FREE REIN:  it's about giving the horse you're riding it's head, and has nothing to do with royalty......

 

Apart from that, I love SH, and despite the flaws, I'm just going with the flow and enjoying great viewing on Mondays.

[Trek]

Yes, Henry has done lots of killing, but I'm not sure how that is Katrina and Ichabod's fault.  They want to reach and "convert" him, but that does not mean they are OK with his evil deeds or just "letting them happen".  They (broader "they now) haven't exactly gone after Headless either, nor Moloch. They aren't really on the offensive against any facet of the impending apocalypse.  They only seem to go after immediate and active threats that are in Sleepy Hollow.

That's actually exactly the conundrum of a show like this, where the overall arch is one specific Armageddon revolving around the 4 horsemen.  (Unlike, say, a Buffy where they can have new Armageddon threats every season).  They can’t really attack and win because then the show is over.

 

So the writers have two choices, either (a) the good guys are on the defensive and get to foil the bad guy’s plans/monster of the week episode to episode and generate a series of minor/half victories building up to a big battle at season finale, or (b) have the good guys attacking but never quite succeeding and so have a series of defeats throughout the season.

 

Sleepy Hollow has gone for (a) while a show like, say, The Strain has gone for (b) where the good guys are hatching new plans to attack “the Master” all the time and always failing.  The pitfall of the latter route is that the catalogue of fails eventually make the good guys look like complete nincompoops.

 

A case in point this season would be when they squandered the Kindred. That “guy” was actually beating Headless until mind control suit of armor showed up and even then was still holding his own 2v1.  Forget the long plan, after exiting the cabin and seeing the situation, here was a great opportunity to just pile in. Ichabod alone is close to on par with the horseman sword v axe 1 on 1.  The last time they really went at it, they exchanged “mortal” blows and “killed” each other after all, so that can be considered  a draw. And then we have Abbie with a shotgun.  In this 3v2 with the third being the Kindred rather than Hawley, the odds are definitely stacked in the heroes favor.

 

Perhaps they can’t be killed outright in melee anymore but hey why not take this opportunity to pulverize War’s armor to scrap metal and do a Monty Python (King Arthur v the Black Knight) on Headless. Chop off both arms and a leg in addition to the long removed head and see how dangerous “stumpy” is then.

 

Can’t happen on a meta basis, so the Witnesses slink away with only a marginal success, but the Kindred just takes off and is lost as a weapon and villains remain unscathed. Fustrating but, marginally, I still prefer this route to (b).

Edited October 29, 2014 by Trek

[Indi]

Every he's on screen he's chewing the scenery and rambling on about hating his parents...

That's the part that's not working for me. I can enjoy an OTT villain, but a snotty childish one, who won't stop about dad and mom is more pathetic than entertaining. The fact that he's 800 years old makes everything worse. STFU and do evil!

Also, I wish they didn't shoehorn him in every single episode. If Jenny can disappear for a week or two, so can this annoying bore.

[marceline]

BIG PEEVE:  It's FREE REIN:  it's about giving the horse you're riding it's head, and has nothing to do with royalty......

 

I cracked up at this because I used to write "free reign" all the time until a friend of mine who rides horses explained it.

 

 

Apart from that, I love SH, and despite the flaws, I'm just going with the flow and enjoying great viewing on Mondays.

 

Same here. I love this show even with its issues. It's one of the only shows I rewatch because I feel like I miss so many of the little things in the first watch and to me it's the little things that make it fun. That said, I feel like the show's success took everybody by surprise in S1 and now we're in the midst of some re-framing/rebooting this season that's making things a bit clunky. I'm also not going to rule out the possibility of network interference. Orlando said it himself, did we really need another "hot" white guy? Maybe the suits thought we did. It's notable to me that we've gotten extra helpings of Faux Sawyer while at the same time we've seen less of Jenny, Irving and Reyes. Maybe there's some long arc story that's building where this will all make sense but right now the show feels slightly out of whack.

[phoenics]

I cracked up at this because I used to write "free reign" all the time until a friend of mine who rides horses explained it.

 

 

Same here. I love this show even with its issues. It's one of the only shows I rewatch because I feel like I miss so many of the little things in the first watch and to me it's the little things that make it fun. That said, I feel like the show's success took everybody by surprise in S1 and now we're in the midst of some re-framing/rebooting this season that's making things a bit clunky. I'm also not going to rule out the possibility of network interference. Orlando said it himself, did we really need another "hot" white guy? Maybe the suits thought we did. It's notable to me that we've gotten extra helpings of Faux Sawyer while at the same time we've seen less of Jenny, Irving and Reyes. Maybe there's some long arc story that's building where this will all make sense but right now the show feels slightly out of whack.

I think we've been getting network interference from the beginning - I think that was the reasoning behind why Katrina was not killed off last season (or in the pilot). I almost think the way Katrina is being written is a giant F-U to the network for forcing the writers to keep a character they had always planned to kill off. It sucks for Katia though. I hate power struggles like this.

But in any case, I think that the increased focus on Crane family drama is dragging the show down and I think the sidelining of Jenny and Irving is hurting the show as well. I feel resentful of Hawley when I see him because it feels like Jenny is being sidelined to give him a story - and I am not sure he's even pulling in the demo that they seem to want (males) - but he may be hurting the demo they have (women).

Another issue I have - Henry. Making him look like a teenage rebellious whiny brat is NOT helping. It's just making him look pathetic and like you could easily defeat him by grounding him. He's not scary. At all. The mind games were SO much more compelling when he wasn't whining about his parents every other minute. Even Moloch isn't terrifying anymore. The ONLY truly terrifying thing seems to be Irving's story and it's the part the show is focusing on the LEAST.

Headless? No longer scary.

War? A whiny brat.

Moloch? Not scary at all. Not anymore. If he had a big bad then that might be scary, but him alone? Not scared.

The fact that I actually want Katrina to have "Moloch" in the flesh just so we can have a big, scary, evil bad guy who is completely evil with NO chances of redemption illustrates just how much the show has failed with War and Death.

[HalcyonDays]

Trek and other, you make very good points about the "Good guys" who can only attain moderate margins of victory. If they didn't the show would be over. Excellent points. I thought the same thing last year - if Katrina actually blurted out this one line." Ichabod, I need to swap souls to be saved from Purgatory and the Horseman of War is Abraham and oh BTW we have a son." half of the season wouldn't exist.

 

Also good points about Henry/Jeremy being like a petulant teenager. I wonder if its deliberate, since he was put in the ground when he was in his late teens. But then Henry was moving around society for about ten years before the Sin Eater thing, so he must have matured...a bit. Him stomping his feet and spouting "evil" poetry and sulking like a child? Not so scary.

 

Henry/Jeremy is not 800 years old. I'm not sure where this number came from. He would be a bit over 200 years old. He was put in the ground around 1800 (was born in 1782, buried at a late teen) and woke up ten years before Crane. So around 200-ish years old. Not sure where the 800 comes from.

 

Read a really good observation elsewhere that Ichabod himself is acting somewhat like a sulky college kid over the whole wife/kid thing. Chugging beers, playing video games, driving Nascar style, being all sulky at times. I thought that was a funny observation.

 

I almost think the way Katrina is being written is a giant F-U to the network for forcing the writers to keep a character they had always planned to kill off.

 

I think that Katrina/Katia Winter is the "muse" of one of the writers, hence shoehorning her into the show. Just compare how much Katrina is featured in an episode, verses who wrote that episode, there is a very clear pattern of who that particular writer is. I get that in season 1, she needed to withhold information to advance the plot and allow Abbie and Ichabod to do their thing. The majority of the people thought she was shady or evil. And logically, it would make sense if she was.

 

But now, they are pushing that she is good only, had the best intentions, and the writers wanted to avoid the trope of shady behaviour = evil. Instead, they forced her into another stereotypical trope, that of a damsel in distress who needs constant saving, is always weeping and seems so weak. I would rather have seen season 1 unfold as it did, then season 2, Katrina quickly joins Henry and play little manipulation games with Ichabod. The conflict he would have is similar - Ichabod have to come to terms with the fact that he has a son, but also has to fight against his son and wife, and he'd be dragged back and forth and could provide a very interesting good versus evil, family versus Witness responsibilities dynamic. You would have Abraham, Henry and Katrina versus Abbie, Ichabod, Irving and Jenny. Keeps team Witness together and on their toes, plus some angst and drama plus Irving and Jenny would be more heavily featured in the mix.

 

As for a power inbalance, you delve into Abbie and Jenny backstory, find out they are dormant witches, thus ensuring more of a power balance. Irving himself could have some latent supernatural abilities. Then we could find out something about Ichabod that could tip the scales in Team Witnesses favour (like him + Abbie is the most powerful combination or something). That would be interesting (to me). AND the four mains wouldn't have been broken up and two mains sidelined.

 

Instead next week, it's familiar trope "Save Katrina" (and we all saw the preview for next week featuring another common trope) followed by "Redeem Henry." *grumble*

[Bruinsfan]

How on earth can Crane "love" Henry. He knows nothing about Henry. It's the same as if I walked up to someone on the street and said "Hey, I'm your mother. BTW, I love you." There is no connect at all with this stranger. Just the concept in my deluded mind. And Ichabod and Katrina are deluded. Henry is unredeemable. Unredeemable.

Very true. Katrina, at least, might have some remaining motherly feelings for the baby she handed off before 200+ years of not doing much in Purgatory. But to Crane Jeremy was a theoretical concept, a child whose existence he didn't suspect until recently, and whom he then thought long dead until Henry pulled the dramatic reveal and became a moustache-twirling villain. There's no basis for feeling love there, merely obligation.

 

I feel like I missed something with Corbin's son. People are shipping him with Abbie and wanting him as a regular but aside from his transformation into a monster he's rather boring, no? I didn't see any romantic chemistry with Abbie. She came accross more like his big sister. Corbin Jr isn't bringing comic relief to the table like Hawley or any other trait that was missing from the regular characters. He's also not particularly attractive which is a must if you're going to be boring.

 

They need to make the headless horseman fierce and scary again. Humanizing him has pretty much neutered him. He needs to be out their beheading people and causing terror.

Agreed on both points. As far as I can see the Joey actor has a flat affect that makes Katia Winter look like the lead antagonist in a Latin American telenovela by comparison. I should not be rooting for a character to turn into a mute cannibalistic monster so I'll have an easier time ffeeling a connection to him. And the Headless Horseman actor does a much better job of being scary and formidable than Neil Jackson, despite having no voice or facial expressions.

[saber5055]

 

She also works with a 250 year old man who blushed at the word "buns." It's not that anybody thinks her clothing is inappropriate. It's just that we're wondering what it must look like to the guy who lost his shit at the concept of credit cards. Seeing our world through Crane's eyes is half the fun of watching this show, IMO.

Thanks marceline. Crane/Mison is the only reason I'm watching this show. Seeing our world through his eyes is pretty illuminating, for most of what he says makes much sense. Like when he went to apologize to Miss Caroline in person instead of "by thumb." I wish there were more Cranes in today's world. It also was eye-opening when Abbie was drowned and he just accepted her as dead because CPR didn't exist in his time.

 

Tom Mison was on the Today show this morning. It was VERY odd to see Crane's face under Mison's gelled-up pompadore hair, and those tennis shoes with white, glowing soles on his feet ... oh, my. So un-Crane-like.

 

I totally missed a big part of this episode since I didn't pay attention to Big Ash, his hair or physique, and I didn't see a dog with him at all. What is wrong with me? Still, I'd be happy with some Native American tribal-gang involvement, that would be cool.

Edited October 29, 2014 by saber5055

[proserpina65]

Replay the scene again - but don't look - just listen.

You'll feel the sexytime vibe all over the place, lol. I did.

I'll have to wait until Fox re-runs it, alas.  But I'll give it a try. ;-)

[Nachinga]

Long time lurker, first time poster  *waves shyly*

 

I enjoyed this episode, not the best of the season, but entertaining. Can't really add much to what has already been said. 

 

Joe Corbin/monster of the week was okay. I liked his interactions with Abbie, mostly because it gave us some backstory, but he can stay at Quantico. 

 

Everything Ichabod/Abbie was lovely. I've long held the belief that Ichabod's quirks and ticks are a result of his attempts at calming his anxiety and was happy to hear Abbie point out that he had been anxious since he had last seen Katrina (who wouldn't be?!?). I love those throw away lines that give us a peek into the characters: Ichabod's anxiety and Abbie's awareness of it. Loved the Superman/Peter Parker/Clarke Kent exchange. I'm what I call a moderate Ichabbie shipper. Wouldn't mind if they got together (in the long term, not now) but will not be too disappointed if they don't, as long as they keep their glorious dynamic.

 

I'm mostly "meh" on  Hawley. There's been way too much of him. I miss Jenny and Irving. I have nothing to say about Katrina other than I hope to high heaven that she turns out to be evil. Otherwise, what a waste. I thought she had so much potential last season. I'm still on the fence about Henry. I'll reserve judgment for now.

 

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that there is a reason that everything feels slightly "off" from last season. I'm hopeful that in the end, everything will tie together and our minds will be blown. What can I say, I'm an optimist.

[proserpina65]

Everyone who commented on my complaint is right, all those Edwardian movies show women of that period corseted like hourglasses with boobs on full display.

 

Colonial, not Edwardian.  But, yes, colonial women of the middle-to-upper classes did wear stays under their gowns which would've emphasized the cleavage.  Although apparently during this time period, shoulders had to be covered, 'cause, you know, SHOULDERS.  Ichabod should be more confused by women wearing pants, and quite snug ones at that, but cleavage being displayed shouldn't cause him a moment's consternation.

[topanga]

 

Why is Abbie's cleavage even being discussed? It's 2014. She wears appropriate tops with appropriate undergarments and appropriate yoga togs.

My comment about Abbie's cleavage was in my post about the entire yoga scene. Abbie/NB has always had boobs and curves despite her petite build. But before this episode, I'd never seen the girls so exposed. Even in the episode where she wore a sports bra. And I'd certainly never seen Abbie squat in front of Ichabod with said boobs practically overflowing from her tank top--because she wasn't wearing a sports bra this time. I'm not saying it was inappropriate. But it certainly added to the scene's "sexytime vibe."  TM proserpina65.

 

Ichabod should be more confused by women wearing pants, and quite snug ones at that, but cleavage being displayed shouldn't cause him a moment's consternation.

In the pilot, Ichabod commented on women wearing "trousers."  

 

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that there is a reason that everything feels slightly "off" from last season. I'm hopeful that in the end, everything will tie together and our minds will be blown. What can I say, I'm an optimist.

Our expectations have certainly risen this season. In Season 1, we became fans of a crazy show that on paper seemed like it could never work. But the actors pulled off the unbelievable scenes, and the chemistry among the actors was off the charts, so we were willing to overlook some of the weaker aspects of the plot. But I for one, am no longer as forgiving when it comes to dropped plot lines (e.g. the Kindred, Hessians, the Irving family, Reyes), and I want to see better character development in Katrina, Henry, and even Crane. Abbie continues to be amazing, as does Jenny.

Edited October 29, 2014 by topanga

[phoenics]

Trek and other, you make very good points about the "Good guys" who can only attain moderate margins of victory. If they didn't the show would be over. Excellent points. I thought the same thing last year - if Katrina actually blurted out this one line." Ichabod, I need to swap souls to be saved from Purgatory and the Horseman of War is Abraham and oh BTW we have a son." half of the season wouldn't exist.

 

Also good points about Henry/Jeremy being like a petulant teenager. I wonder if its deliberate, since he was put in the ground when he was in his late teens. But then Henry was moving around society for about ten years before the Sin Eater thing, so he must have matured...a bit. Him stomping his feet and spouting "evil" poetry and sulking like a child? Not so scary.

 

Henry/Jeremy is not 800 years old. I'm not sure where this number came from. He would be a bit over 200 years old. He was put in the ground around 1800 (was born in 1782, buried at a late teen) and woke up ten years before Crane. So around 200-ish years old. Not sure where the 800 comes from.

 

Read a really good observation elsewhere that Ichabod himself is acting somewhat like a sulky college kid over the whole wife/kid thing. Chugging beers, playing video games, driving Nascar style, being all sulky at times. I thought that was a funny observation.

 

 

I think that Katrina/Katia Winter is the "muse" of one of the writers, hence shoehorning her into the show. Just compare how much Katrina is featured in an episode, verses who wrote that episode, there is a very clear pattern of who that particular writer is. I get that in season 1, she needed to withhold information to advance the plot and allow Abbie and Ichabod to do their thing. The majority of the people thought she was shady or evil. And logically, it would make sense if she was.

 

But now, they are pushing that she is good only, had the best intentions, and the writers wanted to avoid the trope of shady behaviour = evil. Instead, they forced her into another stereotypical trope, that of a damsel in distress who needs constant saving, is always weeping and seems so weak. I would rather have seen season 1 unfold as it did, then season 2, Katrina quickly joins Henry and play little manipulation games with Ichabod. The conflict he would have is similar - Ichabod have to come to terms with the fact that he has a son, but also has to fight against his son and wife, and he'd be dragged back and forth and could provide a very interesting good versus evil, family versus Witness responsibilities dynamic. You would have Abraham, Henry and Katrina versus Abbie, Ichabod, Irving and Jenny. Keeps team Witness together and on their toes, plus some angst and drama plus Irving and Jenny would be more heavily featured in the mix.

 

As for a power inbalance, you delve into Abbie and Jenny backstory, find out they are dormant witches, thus ensuring more of a power balance. Irving himself could have some latent supernatural abilities. Then we could find out something about Ichabod that could tip the scales in Team Witnesses favour (like him + Abbie is the most powerful combination or something). That would be interesting (to me). AND the four mains wouldn't have been broken up and two mains sidelined.

 

Instead next week, it's familiar trope "Save Katrina" (and we all saw the preview for next week featuring another common trope) followed by "Redeem Henry." *grumble*

I do agree with you - except on Katrina - though I do agree that one of the writers seems to think she's more interesting than she is - or maybe he took her on as a "project". But I still think the networks have been in this for some time and perhaps are behind why this writer seems to be intent on pushing Katrina on us fans.

I really like the scenario you suggested - I've always thought that the witnesses DO have some kind of powers that we just haven't gotten to see yet. In the Bible, they certainly have some sort of power - so this wouldn't be out of the norm at all. I really want to see them use some power for once - maybe it has some kind of side effect that makes it something they cannot do all the time?

I don't know if I want to see all of the main 4 end up with powers - that would be a bit too much. I just want the storyline to MOVE. It's literally stagnant - we haven't progressed to anything that pushes the story or reveals anything new except that Katrina is shady and "accidentally" threw someone off a cliff.

Like I said - it's sad when I WANT Moloch to be born via Katrina (although I hate that she's been turned into that trope - the regular damsel in distress ones were bad enough), just because War and Death are no longer compelling villains to me anymore. I don't fear them at all.

Headless used to be terrifying - and he seemed unbeatable - the best you could do was fight him till dawn and let light drive him away. You couldn't kill him - and even the lost year Abbie and Crane's use of arrows and consecrated rounds didn't stop him.

And War? All we see is Henry trying to do psychological war - and with the teenage temper tantrums - it just makes him look pathetic. Again - the ONLY storyline that seems to be interesting with him is the one with Irving and they aren't pushing enough of that.

I guess you could count the story with the crushed bones, etc.. as moving the story - but I guess I feel let down that the "story" is Katrina giving birth to Moloch. Whoopee. Yeah - that was worth it. Not.

It's sad when I'm looking forward to a big bad being born just because it will move the story forward. Though - I have a feeling it won't be that easy for Moloch.

[LydiaMoon1]

I feel like I missed something with Corbin's son. People are shipping him with Abbie and wanting him as a regular but aside from his transformation into a monster he's rather boring, no? I didn't see any romantic chemistry with Abbie. She came accross more like his big sister. Corbin Jr isn't bringing comic relief to the table like Hawley or any other trait that was missing from the regular characters. He's also not particularly attractive which is a must if you're going to be boring.

    

They need to make the headless horseman fierce and scary again. Humanizing him has pretty much neutered him. He needs to be out their beheading people and causing terror.

Agreed on both points.

 

I loved Joey/Abbie because of the brother/sister vibe. I found it completely endearing. I just wish I could have had one scene of him/Abbie/Jenny together as psuedo-siblings.  Yes, I want Abbie to get a romantic interest.  For me though, it ain't Hawley or Crane and his endless Katrina/Henry issues. 

 

IA, however, that giving Headless a head has seriously eroded both his hotness and his ferocity. I'm beyond sick of him and his sappy mooning over Katrina.  It's all a big eyeroll.

[saber5055]

 

Colonial, not Edwardian.  But, yes, colonial women of the middle-to-upper classes did wear stays under their gowns which would've emphasized the cleavage.

I've Googled both eras of women's dresses and none I've found emphasize the cleavage that much. But, not having lived in either era, I get my clothing knowledge strictly from movies, not exactly a reliable source. I do know that women's ANKLES were shocking, and in the 1920s bathing suits were almost head-to-toe. I don't have a clue what Crane/Katrina would have worn for swimming. I'm guessing people did swim in the 1700s?

 

 

My comment about Abbie's cleavage was in my post about the entire yoga scene. Abbie/NB has always had boobs and curves despite her petite build. But before this episode, I'd never seen the girls so exposed. Even in the episode where she wore a sports bra. And I'd certainly never seen Abbie squat in front of Ichabod with said boobs practically overflowing from her tank top--because she wasn't wearing a sports bra this time.

Thanks, topanga, for clarifying what I was trying to say. I'm living in the 2000s and I found it pretty inappropriate. If this had been any other show, Abbie would have said, "Hey, Crane, my eyes are up here."

 

I has occurred to me that Katrina isn't really in love with Crane, but selected him based on her knowledge that he is a witness, then "spelled" everyone else away from him and her (Abraham). Crane's beer speech about not knowing Katrina after all makes me think maybe a divorce in in their future, if not a death or two.

 

I'm not sure Henry's all there. He's been told by Moloch not to do anything Moloch doesn't tell him to do. Yet, there he goes with the poison spider. (Which reflects on that old wive's tale that everyone swallows X number of spiders every night when sleeping. Don't worry ... it's been proven false!)

[HalcyonDays]

phoenics, I'm taking this to the Speculation thread but this I need to comment on...

 

I guess you could count the story with the crushed bones, etc.. as moving the story - but I guess I feel let down that the "story" is Katrina giving birth to Moloch. Whoopee. Yeah - that was worth it. Not.

[Helena Dax]

Katrina and the lack of Jenny are my least favourite things from this season but I still think this is a great, fun show. The fact that Ichabod's past is so important for the plot doesn't bother me, since he's the main character of Irving's story. (I mean Katrina, Henry, Headless Guy). And yes, this is also Abbie's story;  I think the writers know it and they're doing a good job. Jenny is Abbie's sister; Irving was her boss and now her new boss knew her mum and we all know that we're going to see more about that. 

 

I sort of understand why Ichabod would want to try to save Henry or Henry's soul, but I think his speech at the end of the episode was a  bit too  much. Obviously, winning Henry back would  help to destroy Moloch, so it's a practical movement  too, but tbh I  don't think that was what Ichabod had in mind.  

 

Ichabod's resistance to admit he was angry with Katrina reminds me of something lady Violet said  last episode in Downton Abbey, that being unhappy in your marriage was ill-bred.                     

[Danny Franks]

Two things:

 

Abbie doing yoga? I could watch that all day. If this entire show was nothing but her doing yoga and looking incredible, it would be my very favourite show. Do I mind that her boobs were so prominently displayed? Nope. I am a straight guy. Was it odd that Ichabod wasn't flustered? Hmm. Katrina's dresses were hardly modest when it came to her decolletage, and I think women's fashion then included a fair amount of cleavage. The tight yoga pants, however? I'm surprised his eyes didn't pop out of his head!

 

Abbie being interested in Tall N. Bland? Nope. Not buying what they're selling, there. Not interested in her lowering herself (figuratively) to date that loser. And especially not interested in seeing a potential sisterly squabble over a guy who isn't good enough for either of them. He just isn't charming or engaging at all. What is it with writing awesome women on TV, then giving them complete duds as potential love interests? Is the fact that they're written as interested in the guy supposed to somehow validate that guy in the eyes of the viewer? I don't think it works that way.

 

Also, who in the production crew is that guy friends with, to have been inserted so obviously into the show and given such unwarranted importance?

[Linderhill]

 

all those Edwardian movies show women of that period corseted like hourglasses with boobs on full display.

Except that Crane is not from the Edwardian era, he's from the Georgian period, or Revolutionary War era (or Colonial).  Edwardian is post Victorian, the early decade(s) of the 1900's.  Georgian is from the early part of 1700 to 1830's.  The eras are named after the English monarchs at the time.  There was some major boobage going on there with décolletage that sometimes showed nipple in the Georgian years.  I could see where he might be more disturbed by the lack of voluminous skirts and petticoats.  I rack it up to the fact that the man has accepted that he's out of time and much adapt to what is around him.  

 

eta:  I see that proserpina65 beat me to it.

 

ETA more:  My thoughts on the existence of Hawley is that either Orlando is right and they needed to up the white boy quotient or the mistaken idea that every show dealing with history and some kind of relic needs an Indiana Jones character.  FYI people in charge, we don't always need and Indiana Jones character.  By no stretch of the imagination is this guy as appealing as Indiana Jones.  Just like Bela on Supernatural, simply annoying and the only thing they've accomplished is stealing screen time.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Linderhill

[saber5055]

 

I rack it up to the fact that the man has accepted that he's out of time and much adapt to what is around him.

Men born in the here and now are still swayed and mesmerized by double-jug yoga pants and low-cut tops. Right, Danny Franks? (Your post cracked me up.) I would expect someone from Crane's era would take a bit longer to become accustomed to it, if ever.

 

Although ratings-wise, I'm guessing Fox knew exactly what it was doing (to both sexes) with that opening yoga scene. Rewind, play, rewind, play, discuss, rewind, play.

[emma675]

 

IA, however, that giving Headless a head has seriously eroded both his hotness and his ferocity.

That's what did it for me. The second they gave Headless a head, he stopped being terrifying. He's just another love sick guy who is throwing a tantrum because he didn't get the girl he wanted. Before, he was menacing and horrifying and creepy. Now he's just kind of sad.

[Danny Franks]

That's what did it for me. The second they gave Headless a head, he stopped being terrifying. He's just another love sick guy who is throwing a tantrum because he didn't get the girl he wanted. Before, he was menacing and horrifying and creepy. Now he's just kind of sad.

 

Humanising him at all was a mistake, if you ask me. As soon as he was revealed to be Ichabod's old buddy, he lost his aura. The appeal of the Headless Horseman has always been the thing he's named for. He has no head, no identity. He is a malevolent spirit who takes the heads of the living for reasons we can only guess at. Only, he's not. He's a Horseperson of the Apocalypse, and he became one because he was humiliated when the girl he didn't love decided she loved someone else.

 

Go back to the pilot episode and rewatch it with the idea that this is a guy who is steamed that his fiance married another man. It becomes a whole different show.

[savinggrace]

 

ETA more:  My thoughts on the existence of Hawley is that either Orlando is right and they needed to up the white boy quotient or the mistaken idea that every show dealing with history and some kind of relic needs an Indiana Jones character.  FYI people in charge, we don't always need and Indiana Jones character.  By no stretch of the imagination is this guy as appealing as Indiana Jones.  Just like Bela on Supernatural, simply annoying and the only thing they've accomplished is stealing screen time.

 

The show needed a new personality type more than anything. The current Scooby gang are all so serious and intense. Abbie has brief moments of humor at Crane's expense but otherwise it's all Apocalypse all the time. Jenny is angsty and Irving is yet another serious character. I think I've laughed more at Nick's quotes  in his few episodes than I have the entire series. I like where they're going with him as far as being a peer to Crane. I was starting to wonder if Crane didn't miss having male companionship since most of his time was spent with Abbie or Miss Jenny. Most modern era men would not relate to him in the least but he and Hawley at least have their love of antiquities and the whole Monster of the Week thing to potentially bond over.

[topanga]

 

Humanising him at all was a mistake, if you ask me. As soon as he was revealed to be Ichabod's old buddy, he lost his aura. The appeal of the Headless Horseman has always been the thing he's named for. He has no head, no identity. He is a malevolent spirit who takes the heads of the living for reasons we can only guess at. Only, he's not. He's a Horseperson of the Apocalypse, and he became one because he was humiliated when the girl he didn't love decided she loved someone else.

Definitely. Headless doesn't need a head. In the episode where he was captured and chained under the police station, the actor who played Headless was amazing at showing his anger, frustration, his power, and even his arrogance. Yes, he had Andy at the end to help translate his "words," but even without an interpreter, I knew who Headless was. And who he was scared the crap out of me--and every one else who was down there. Yes, it was a mistake to make Abraham the real Headless. Or at least to make Abraham so prominent this season. Headless has become straight up wimpy. Not scary at all. Except for the few scenes when he's riding his horse with his ax (or is it axe?) at the ready.

 

RE Hawley:

 

 

The show needed a new personality type more than anything. The current Scooby gang are all so serious and intense. Abbie has brief moments of humor at Crane's expense but otherwise it's all Apocalypse all the time. Jenny is angsty and Irving is yet another serious character. I think I've laughed more at Nick's quotes  in his few episodes than I have the entire series.

Yes, Hawley is funny. But so is Jenny--her humor tends to be sarcastically witty, but it cracks me up. In this episode: "That being said, I think we should all donate blood this month." And she had the line about Tall, Dark, and British, "What do your friends call you--Ichy?", "And I'm good at getting out of places." That's all I can remember now, but there are more.

 

Don't get me wrong: I like Hawley. I just don't want him to replace Jenny as an important member of the team.

Edited October 29, 2014 by topanga

[savinggrace]

RE Hawley:

 

Yes, Hawley is funny. But so is Jenny--her humor tends to be sarcastically witty, but it cracks me up. In this episode: "That being said, I think we should all donate blood this month." And she had the line about Tall, Dark, and British, "What do your friends call you--Ichy?", "And I'm good at getting out of places." That's all I can remember now, but there are more.

 

Don't get me wrong: I like Hawley. I just don't want him to replace Jenny as an important member of the team.

 

Jenny's still been an integral part of this season. Her and Abbie's relationship is one of the central themes of the show. The whole episode about the coin ended up centering on her despite the introduction of Hawley and she was certainly present and accounted for the last episode. She's not going anywhere. Until they show Hawley off by himself in some seperate plotline away from the gang I can't agree that he's taking anyone's time. He's always onscreen with either Abbie, Crane or Jenny. Now that Hawley has been established through a few episodes I think he can seamlessly co-exist with the existing gang.I do wish they would bring Irving back into the fold. Irving and Katrina's seperate plots-- are weighing down the show IMO.

 

Also I think the fears of Hawley coming between Abbie and Jenny are unfounded. I can't see Abbie allowing that to happen and it's clear from Jenny's remarks so far that she would place any blame squarely on Hawley. If anything I can see Jenny warning Abbie about how flighty he is and kicking his butt if he tries to hurt Abby in any way.

[Badsamaritan]

My ever lovin' Ichabbie heart really liked their rhyming exchange:

"These unwinding activities, your yoga, your video games...they miss the purpose of relaxation. The grass does not try to grow, the water does not try to flow.."

"Yeah? Well Lao Tzu never had to hunt a Wendigo!"

[topanga]

 

Also I think the fears of Hawley coming between Abbie and Jenny are unfounded. I can't see Abbie allowing that to happen and it's clear from Jenny's remarks so far that she would place any blame squarely on Hawley. If anything I can see Jenny warning Abbie about how flighty he is and kicking his butt if he tries to hurt Abby in any way.

You made some great points, savinggrace, and I sure hope you're right. But one thing I've learned about television is that writers can steer characters in any direction they want the plot pendulum to swing, even if the behavior is completely out of character for the people we've been watching for a season and a half.

 

 Abbie doesn't seem attracted to Hawley, and she isn't the type of woman to let a man come between her and her sister. But Hawley is being written as Mr. Rough but Charming (Heck, I find him charming. A little dirty, perhaps. But charming). I wouldn't be surprised if his amazing personality and the Magic Stick between his legs are enough to make Abbie lose all intelligence, her respect for personal hygiene, and forget about her tenuous bond with Jenny. After all, she and Hawley have already shared their first kiss (the mouth-to-mouth CPR).

[Pacodakat]

The writer for I09 has an awesome review of the episode. I think we were separated at birth. She is the best. Especially when she mentions the big sexiness of big Ash! Yes!

 

To the above poster: I hope you are correct about your poo pooing the Jenny/Abbie/ Hawley mess. I hope you have some info we all do not and your reassurance is not based on faith in the writers, who are blowing up my show with their tinkering.

 

Ichabod and Abbie are still gold but everything else seems way out of place. I know that the preview for next will be a lot different then the actual episode but the bases of it is "Katrina in distress." 

 

The writers don't have a clue:

Katrina spying for the team??? what happened to that plot line? Where is the Frankenstein thingy they made?? Orlando's trying to overact his way out of the fuckery that is his plot. Henry is twirling his mustache and Moloch is a non entity.

 

Where is my show from last season?

 

Of course if the show is an A+ I will make sure to extol the virtues of all the writers and love every character, including Katrina. lol

Edited October 29, 2014 by Pacodakat

[Danny Franks]

The only point I can see to Hawley is for him to be revealed as a Hessian, sent by Henry to sow dissent amongst his enemies. Even if he fails to do that. It's really the only in-narrative explanation for why this guy who they have never met before is now everywhere they go.

 

If the whole point of War is that he brings conflict, then he's not exactly cooking too much up, so far. That coin gag, trying to get Irving to side with him and that's about it. Why would he leave Ichabod and Abbie to their own devices, when it seems to be in his nature to mess with them?

 

It would also be a nice reflection of the idea that Katrina is using her position with Headless to undermine everything the bad guys are doing, and has tried to sow dissent between the Horsemen.

[DearEvette]

Yeah, the i09 recapper is awesome!  I love her.

 

I was reading the TomandLorenzo blog and this line in their recap I found utterly hysterical:

 

this chick becomes a victim once again just by breathing through her mouth while she’s sleeping

 

 

Poor Katrina. 

 

I am keeping my fingers crossed that whatever does or doesn't happen with Abbie & Hawley doesn't mess up Abbie & Jennie.  Lyndie intimated as much in a n interview.  She basically said they (Abbie & Jenny) have bigger issues than some dude.  So that makes me feel better.

[Snookums]

Henry is an asshole. But he's not scary, he just reminds me of a petulant teenager with bullies for friends.

 

 

 

I love that John Noble is playing him this way, because that is totally and precisely what Henry is--a traumatized kid who's being encouraged in all his worst instincts. He's exactly what Moloch groomed him to be and will ultimately be Moloch's downfall, because evil is inherently selfish. The whole apocalypse thing is clearly running a distant second in Henry's mind to the need to childishly fuck over his parents. (And can I give a big ol' nooooOOOOOOOOO NOPE NOPE NOPE to a son impregnating his mother??? I don't care if he did use a demon spider that is JUST NASTY FREUDIAN SHIT right there.)

 

The only joy I'm getting out of the whole Hawley/Abbie crap is Crane's petulant jealousy whenever he sees them together. He instantly morphs to Ye Olde Fourth Grader and gets so transparently pissy about everything. Subtle, dude. 

 

The Abby/Itchy was in full gear in the car "Want a hint?" "No, no..." "Clark Kent CLARK KENT I was going to say that."

 

Barely any Jenny. I miss her the most.

 

Especially when she can work such miracles with her lines: "The security at the hospital is shitty, this is the freshest organ I could find. That said, we should all probably donate blood this year." Laughed my ass off.

[Snookums]

I think they would be great at Shakespeare - "Much Ado About Nothing" comes to mind.

 

 

Ohhhhh....*fans self*

Replay the scene again - but don't look - just listen.

You'll feel the sexytime vibe all over the place, lol. I did.

 

 

 

Well, until the line "Do it for Katrina." That would tend to throw cold water on everything.

Edited October 30, 2014 by Snookums

[stealinghome]

Until they show Hawley off by himself in some seperate plotline away from the gang I can't agree that he's taking anyone's time. He's always onscreen with either Abbie, Crane or Jenny.

But the time in which he's on-screen with Abbie and Crane is time that last season would have gone to Jenny. Last season, Jenny was Hawley--swung in with esoteric knowledge about random crap and to be muscle. Hawley may not ever get his own separate plotline, but Jenny's never gotten one either, she's never alone on-screen in the same way Hawley isn't ever alone on-screen. And while the creators might not have intended for it to seem like Hawley is taking Jenny's place, I have to say it's hard for me to interpret it any other way when Jenny was heavily featured in the first 3 episodes, the third of which introduced Hawley, and then has basically been MIA for the last 3 while it's been The Hawley Show. While he does the exact same job Jenny did last year.

 

I do agree that the character brings a different personality type than most of our heroes, and I like the actor, I think he's doing what he can with the material. So Hawley still has some potential--the character hasn't totally lost me yet. But the writers need to a) bench him for a few episodes, b) drop him making eyes at Abbie when he's slept with her sister in the past (seriously, that's gross), and c) find a role for him in the team that's not Jenny's.

[shanndee]

You made some great points, savinggrace, and I sure hope you're right. But one thing I've learned about television is that writers can steer characters in any direction they want the plot pendulum to swing, even if the behavior is completely out of character for the people we've been watching for a season and a half.

 

 Abbie doesn't seem attracted to Hawley, and she isn't the type of woman to let a man come between her and her sister. But Hawley is being written as Mr. Rough but Charming (Heck, I find him charming. A little dirty, perhaps. But charming). I wouldn't be surprised if his amazing personality and the Magic Stick between his legs are enough to make Abbie lose all intelligence, her respect for personal hygiene, and forget about her tenuous bond with Jenny. After all, she and Hawley have already shared their first kiss (the mouth-to-mouth CPR).

 

Yes, this is my concern as well. Networks believe in a formula that works, and they will force that formula through (because they know what is best *rolls eyes*), I don't think the network has a clue about what made this show so popular. They don't get that a large number of us love the urban fantasy, the fun, unexplained element of it. I'm not sure that they understand that the chemistry between the leads and among the supporting characters (Jenny, Irving, Macey, Andy and even flashback Corbin) are hugely appealing on their own. That Abbie and Jenny are strong female characters that don't need to be shoehorned into "relationships" Especially not some stupid love triange. Grrr.

 

I loved the season One cast and I hate seeing them sidelined to fulfill the "white boy quotient". I hate the idea of a forced love triangle to cause drama between the sisters. There is enough untapped drama there without it (13 years of separation anyone?)

 

Sorry. Rant over. (Deep, cleansing breathe...and relax)

 

I love this show and just hope that people in positions of authority recognize what made it special in the first place and don't mess with it too much.

 

But more Jenny and Irving screen time...please!

Edited October 30, 2014 by shanndee

[chr1svee]

I think this show is in a serious Sophomore Slump and the problems aren't easy to fix.

The biggest problem is the casting of Henry. As was said up thread, John Noble was great as the Sin Eater. As Ichabod's son, he just doesn't work. I think it's the age difference. I can see where that was clever on paper, but with John Noble being more than twice Tom Mison's age, the actors are struggling to sell the familial drama. I can't buy the parental love, I can't buy the teenaged anger that rules Henry. Imagine that Henry were played by someone of an age like Joseph Gordon-Leavitt or Jonathon Rhys Meyers. I'm terrible at casting but the idea is someone who can still pull off the 'damaged child with a lot of scary power' role.

Irving incarcerated doesn't work. It's breaking up the team chemistry especially since Jenny has been underutilized. They can keep him as an unwilling accomplice to Henry but just get him out with the group again.

Humanizing Headless by focusing on Abraham's unrequited love was another big mistake. They should have left him more mysterious and bent on revenge not trying to get domestic with Katrina. The idea of it wasn't bad if they'd kept it off screen. But the took away the creepiness factor that they really need.

As for Katrina...well I guess now she'll get to play full on evil but have a moral out clause due to spider? It will be interesting if Ichabod's has to decide whether to kill her and if that causes strife between Abbie and Ichabod especially when it comes out she's been spidered?

Tha Hawley/Mills Sisters triangle is distasteful. It seems like a obvious plot device to shoehorn them into this season's theme of discord/strife being sown between all the heroes.

[phoenics]

Ohhhhh....*fans self*

 

 

Well, until the line "Do it for Katrina." That would tend to throw cold water on everything.

Well yes - I meant up until that part, lol!

I remember being turned away from the tv at the time - and I had to look at the tv to make sure I wasn't witnessing an Ichabod fantasy, lol.

But I think it's clear the writers MEANT to tease the fans with that.

[emma675]

 

Where is the Frankenstein thingy they made??

Aw, the Kindred! I hope he's okay. Poor boo boo just got left behind by his creators to fend for himself in a strange world. I still resent Abbie and Ichabod for that.

[topanga]

I think this show is in a serious Sophomore Slump and the problems aren't easy to fix....

 

...As for Katrina...well I guess now she'll get to play full on evil but have a moral out clause due to spider? It will be interesting if Ichabod's has to decide whether to kill her and if that causes strife between Abbie and Ichabod especially when it comes out she's been spidered?

 

Because I love Sleepy Hollow so much, I'll say that the show is having growing pains rather than a sophomore slump. But I agree with you otherwise, chr1svee.

 

A Katrina transformation has the most potential to make her an exciting character and to return the show's focus to fighting the Apocalypse. If Katrina does become evil or produces evil spawn and aligns herself with Moloch, then she finally can become an integral (and dare I say, interesting) part of the plot, rather than a boring plot device. Maybe then Crane will stop pining away over the idea of Katrina, a woman who has never been the person she appeared to be or made Crane believe she was. Maybe then the formerly bad-ass Headless Horseman will stop being whiny, love-sick Abraham. Maybe Jenny will lead the gang on a Tarrytown break-in that frees Irving and makes him a relevant part of their crew once again. Maybe we won't need Hawley to get all schmoopy over Abbie and potentially drive a wedge between the Mills sisters. And Henry? I don't know. Maybe with Henry and Katrina working together, Crane will recognize that his "family" is not redeemable, and this season's ongoing family drama will mercifully be over.

Edited October 30, 2014 by topanga

[saber5055]

 

So Hawley still has some potential--the character hasn't totally lost me yet. But the writers need to ...  b) drop him making eyes at Abbie

I don't blame Hawley for staring at Abbie. Don't rank on him when Abbie is the one dressed to make him look. "Hey Hawley, my eyes are up here." Maybe it's modern times and modern clothes but men still think the same way, Hawley included. Crane maybe, he's just too proper to say.

 

I don't see Abbie having any interest in Hawley at all and I don't foresee the sisters ever fighting over this guy. I don't get why posters are worried this might happen. Abbie's just not the type. And Jenny has already shown us she's the "kiss and use" type when she went to visit Hawley on his boat. If Jenny wanted Hawley, she could have had him right then and there.

[caprice]

I think that most of you have already said what I would have said, but one more thing to add:  Whoever cast the actor to play Corbin's son did a really good job.  I could actually believe that he was related.  He looked like him to me.

Chiming in with a few others, I thought the actor playing Joe was Clancy Brown's son.

 

I don't really care about the monster part of the show. I watch to see Crane comment on modern life and Abbie's reactions. Being from Philadelphia, I love Crane's comments about Ben Franklin. Franklin knew how to "revel". I don't think anyone is surprised by that.

Heh, I came in for the monsters, but am sticking around for Crane's dry quips. While Ben Franklin knew how to "revel," I'd much rather down a beer (or two) with Crane. :)

 

Orlando Jones (Irving) was troll-tweeting the show last night and he posted his "inner thought bubble:"

"I said "Assume I know everything" but I don't know what the hell is going on. Where the hell is Luke? What happened to the Hessian sleeper agents? And why is Hawley doing Jenny's job? Did we need to fill a white boy quota? Answer me!! "

https://twitter.com/TheOrlandoJones

LOVE Orlando Jones! He does seem tapped in to what the viewers are wondering. Here's hoping we start getting some answers....

 

That's the part that's not working for me. I can enjoy an OTT villain, but a snotty childish one, who won't stop about dad and mom is more pathetic than entertaining. The fact that he's 800 years old makes everything worse. STFU and do evil!

Also, I wish they didn't shoehorn him in every single episode. If Jenny can disappear for a week or two, so can this annoying bore.

Speaking as a John Noble fan, I can buy the idea that he's playing the whole teen-aged sense of abandonment and neglect, "Boo-frickin'-hoo." And yet... no, he doesn't need to be in every episode.

[monakane]

 

Heh, I came in for the monsters, but am sticking around for Crane's dry quips. While Ben Franklin knew how to "revel," I'd much rather down a beer (or two) with Crane. :)

 

There a few other things I would like to do with Crane.

[HalcyonDays]

There a few other things I would like to do with Crane.

 

Get in line. :') But we'll start at a bar first and get him good and liquored up!

 

Useless Trivia for this Episode: The final yoga post that Abbie does is apparently called Bakasana Pose aka Crane Pose.

 

I love little shoutouts/easter eggs like this.

[caprice]

There a few other things I would like to do with Crane.

 

Get in line. :') But we'll start at a bar first and get him good and liquored up!

 

Useless Trivia for this Episode: The final yoga post that Abbie does is apparently called Bakasana Pose aka Crane Pose.

 

I love little shoutouts/easter eggs like this.

Line? We don't necessarily need to be in line. Of course... we might need to make sure he keeps up with the yoga. You know, for... stamina....

[Amethyst]

I agree with Snookums about Henry.  Part of his character is that he's essentially an overgrown child who wants to piss off his mommy and daddy.  I personally find his tantrums amusing.  But in all seriousness, he's more dangerous this way because he lacks the emotional maturity to understand the consequences of his actions.  Like him burning the bed Katrina birthed him in a few weeks ago after staring at it miserably.  I think that deep down, Henry still has affection for Katrina, and maybe Ichabod as well.  But he's so wrapped up in getting his way and getting Moloch's approval that he'll do something devastating and not be able to fix his mistake.

 

I'm OK with the Horseman too, because I feel that this is what's going to push Katrina to the dark side.  She thanked him the other day for saving Ichabod and over time, and against her better judgement, she'll start to empathize with him and possibly fall for him.  Plus, Abraham is associated with Henry, someone that Katrina would do anything to save.  Something concrete needs to happen here, because with her powers stifled by Henry, there is literally nothing for Katrina to do but be a damsel-in-distress. 

 

I'm enjoying this season, but the situation with the Kindred really bothers me.  This isn't a puppy that ran away; it's an undead killing machine.  Where did it go?  Did he bury himself somewhere, or staying in a safehouse?  Abby and Ichabod leaving him behind has to be one of the dumbest things they've ever done.  I have a feeling that abandoning the Kindred like that is going to come back to them in an awful way. 

[Pacodakat]

After this last episode I was going to stop watching Sleepy Hollow and just marathon season two, but after reading the post and laughing over a lot of the snarky recaps, I think I'll watch every week til the end of the season. So thanks for the funny, positive and sarcastic comments and BIG ASH, he's already a thing on tumblr.  :) Yay!

Edited October 30, 2014 by Pacodakat

[HalcyonDays]

Part of <Henry's> character is that he's essentially an overgrown child who wants to piss off his mommy and daddy.  I personally find his tantrums amusing.  But in all seriousness, he's more dangerous this way because he lacks the emotional maturity to understand the consequences of his actions.

 

You know, I and some others have commented on how on earth could Ichabod have a bond, love his son because he literally doesn't know anything about him. He's just a concept. Katrina at least knew the kid for a year. But the reverse also applies to Henry. He was given up at one year of age. Babies (as far as I know) are not going to remember that far back, so Henry won't remember his mother at all. He is more likely to remember Grace Dixon.

 

So again, as much as K and I want to redeem Henry - he knows nothing about the, remembers nothing of Katrina at all.

 

After this last episode I was going to stop watching Sleepy Hollow and just marathon season two, but after reading the post and laughing over a lot of the snarky recaps, I think I'll watch every week til the end of the season. So thanks for the funny, positive and sarcastic comments and BIG ASH, he's already a thing on tumblr.  :) Yay!

 

Yes! There are some really good recaps out there that are hilarious. The io9 one is always a riot (it's by Genevieve Valentine), as is the one by PTV. Because what else can we do but snark and dissect this show, right?

 

As for the Kindred, Henry, Andy and some other stuff that'll happen --> I'll head on over to the Speculation and Spoilers section for this.

[marceline]

 

You know, I and some others have commented on how on earth could Ichabod have a bond, love his son because he literally doesn't know anything about him. He's just a concept.

Sometimes it's easier to love a concept than a real person. 

[phoenics]

Sometimes it's easier to love a concept than a real person.

Well that explains Ichabod's comment about his feelings for Katrina during the yoga scene. To paraphrase, he essentially said that Katrina's lies, etc. were making it hard for him to love or remember the love or something... I think that Katrina's lies/deceit/shadiness is making it hard for Ichabod to keep up the facade of Katrina in concept... he now has to deal with reality.

Can he?

And I'm not sure Katrina is done with the shadyness.

[heatherkay]

I assumed Quantico meant that he wanted a recommendation to Marine Corps Officer Candidates School, which actually makes sense, not anything to do with FBI, which makes no sense.