Bethenny Frankel: Skinny Girl

[sleekandchic]

Yes, that was my point, LotusFlower. :) Rich people's problems! :)

[Mrs peel]

 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3089888/Bethenny-Frankel-goes-dramatic-new-look-cuts-five-inches-famous-mane-trend-long-bob.html

 

She now kind of reminds me of Giuliana Rancic. .

Wow, that looks terrible.  It's called a flat iron Bethenny, or a good hairbrush, something to make the hair look ok.

 

Or maybe her hair is just ruined from I don't know what - she doesn't bleach it (thank God, looking at you again Dorinda!) or seem to use a lot of extensions.

[zoeysmom]

Wow, that looks terrible.  It's called a flat iron Bethenny, or a good hairbrush, something to make the hair look ok.

 

Or maybe her hair is just ruined from I don't know what - she doesn't bleach it (thank God, looking at you again Dorinda!) or seem to use a lot of extensions.

It looks like she chewed her hair off.  She did need a change and it just needs not to have the frayed ends.  I think extensions are kind of over the hill for this crowd.

[missy jo]

Her face looks a big...harsh? in that picture. Something around her mouth area. Idk, not a plastic surgery expert.

 

I'm not sure if she had work is or a bit dehydrated.

 

 

Her face is harsh by default, especially as thin as she is. So it looks like she has the usual botox and facial fillers, which she needs, and maybe some upper lip injections. IMO, she's also had the eyelift (not sure of the exact term?) where it prevents your lids from sagging. You can see how her lids go waaay back/deep instead of drooping at all.

[LotusFlower]

Sad thing is, she probably paid a lot of money for that haircut and ended up with a lot of damage from the attempt to lighten it. Should've passed the shears to Bryn. She could've done a better job.

Here's evidence Andy loves Bethenny and seems hell-bent on making her "happen" this season - last night's poll question on WWHL was: Bethenny's haircut - thumbs up or down? I think it won (thumbs up) pretty handily.

[LotusFlower]

I don't understand Andy and his favorites. I think he also likes Patti Stanger and she's said some offensive things about gay men to Andy's face. He just likes people who can bring the drama but I also think he has a misogynistic streak and likes watching women tear each other apart.

He likes smart, witty (Bethenny, Carole) or funny, big personality (Nene).

[zoeysmom]

He likes smart, witty (Bethenny, Carole) or funny, big personality (Nene).

Or indicted, convicted RHs.   I think he likes malleable.  Brandi tripped his trigger for awhile until she caused the big empty air time-then she made one more appearance, stayed sober and was a bore.

 

My guess is Bethenny is that once in a lifetime make it over the top big-really big persona found on his watch.  I can't believe they are having an Andy/Bethenny special Tuesday night.

[LotusFlower]

Or indicted, convicted RHs.   I think he likes malleable.  Brandi tripped his trigger for awhile until she caused the big empty air time-then she made one more appearance, stayed sober and was a bore.

 

My guess is Bethenny is that once in a lifetime make it over the top big-really big persona found on his watch.  I can't believe they are having an Andy/Bethenny special Tuesday night.

Isn't this maybe the third time she's been on WWHL already? (Just in the past few months). He's really working overtime to make the return of Bethenny a success.

As for who Andy likes - I think there's a distinction between who he likes personally (smart, funny, ie. Bethenny), and who he likes or regards as good HW material (big personality, funny, raunchy, dramatic, ie. Tamra, Kenya, Vicki G., etc...). As for Teresa, I think he might have a soft spot for her, but I don't think he really likes her. She's just too dumb.

[Celia Rubenstein]

Wow, that looks terrible.  It's called a flat iron Bethenny, or a good hairbrush, something to make the hair look ok.

 

Oh my.  That hairdo.  No.  No ma'am.  No thank you.  Not a fan. 

 

 

From the show thread:

 

The clown being fed by Beth is according to Andy Cohen the most hilarious thing he has seen on tv.  what?

 

This, in a nutshell, is what is wrong with Bravo TV.  Andy Cohen is a complete MORON.  No wonder the ratings for this franchise are in the toilet.  Look at the taste level of the shot callers.  

[Alonzo Mosely FBI]

Sad thing is, she probably paid a lot of money for that haircut and ended up with a lot of damage from the attempt to lighten it. Should've passed the shears to Bryn. She could've done a better job.

The press named the hairdresser and I forget the name but it was not her turkey baster sperm donor to be baby-daddy Frannncky L'OficiL'oreal or Whatever the frick his name is.... What gives? Did he cease to be useful to her? Now that she has no eggs and can pay for haircuts he's useless to her along with the long list of other people she burns through like Sherman's March?

[trimthatfat]

I just saw some pictures of Brynn on the DailyMail and she is the spitting image of her dad. Bethenny couldn't forget about Jason if she tried.

[AuntieDiane6]

 

Isn't this maybe the third time she's been on WWHL already? (Just in the past few months). He's really working overtime to make the return of Bethenny a success.

 

Probably because he paid so damn much to get her back.  She better earn her keep … 

[MatildaMoody]

I actually like the length of Bethenny's new hair cut, but i don't like the disheveled look of it. I think ti would look dynamite if it were a sleeker cut and not so ragged at the edges.

[sleekandchic]

I just saw some pictures of Brynn on the DailyMail and she is the spitting image of her dad. Bethenny couldn't forget about Jason if she tried.

I agree. I hope Beth doesn't focus on that too much if she hates Jason.

I agree! Bryn is a Hoppy through and through! BUT! I believe Bethenny has convinced herself that Bryn looks like Bethenny, NOT the paternal side. Why do I think such a nonsensical, ridiculous thing?

Well...travel back in time with me to the final season of her spinoff. So much drama, fighting, renovating, Jim Beam dealing. B crying every episode to Dr Amador.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bethenny_Ever_After

In episode 9, Bryn's former baby nurse, Gina, pays B a visit. They reminisce, but, mainly B uses the woman as a sounding board and crying towel, telling her how unhappy she is and how hard her life has become. Its April 2012.

During their convo, Toddler Bryn, almost 2, makes her appearance. Gina exclaims happily to see the child. Then, Gina says, oh she looks just like her daddy! B's face stayed immobile, her eyes went dead. No response.

Bryn and Gina greet and interact. Gina says to Bryn, you look just like your daddy. Bethenny continues to hold on to her Great Stone Face.

A little later in the scene, Gina (no dummy) says to Bethenny, I think Bryn really looks a lot like you! B comes alive! Smiles! Is rejuvenated! And then, she says to Gina, thank you!

So whether she's deluding herself or honestly seeing things wrong, I believe Bethenny does NOT allow herself to see anything Hoppy in Bryn's genes. As far as her relationship with Bryn, its probably for the best.

[sleekandchic]

Don't get me started on Kate, gimi! Ha! ;)

[WireWrap]

I agree! Bryn is a Hoppy through and through! BUT! I believe Bethenny has convinced herself that Bryn looks like Bethenny, NOT the paternal side. Why do I think such a nonsensical, ridiculous thing?

Well...travel back in time with me to the final season of her spinoff. So much drama, fighting, renovating, Jim Beam dealing. B crying every episode to Dr Amador.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bethenny_Ever_After

In episode 9, Bryn's former baby nurse, Gina, pays B a visit. They reminisce, but, mainly B uses the woman as a sounding board and crying towel, telling her how unhappy she is and how hard her life has become. Its April 2012.

During their convo, Toddler Bryn, almost 2, makes her appearance. Gina exclaims happily to see the child. Then, Gina says, oh she looks just like her daddy! B's face stayed immobile, her eyes went dead. No response.

Bryn and Gina greet and interact. Gina says to Bryn, you look just like your daddy. Bethenny continues to hold on to her Great Stone Face.

A little later in the scene, Gina (no dummy) says to Bethenny, I think Bryn really looks a lot like you! B comes alive! Smiles! Is rejuvenated! And then, she says to Gina, thank you!

So whether she's deluding herself or honestly seeing things wrong, I believe Bethenny does NOT allow herself to see anything Hoppy in Bryn's genes. As far as her relationship with Bryn, its probably for the best.

The big test will come when and if Bryn starts displaying mannerisms of Jason's in front of Bethenny. Heaven help that child if she also has her dads personality traits and not just his looks.

[sleekandchic]

Oh no, I don't want to derail the thread. It's just interesting how moms can put aside their hatred of their ex spouse for the sake of their kids (at least, I hope so).

I hope so, but I'm not convinced. Its only a matter of time before a blowup brings out "you're just like your father!" (or mother!).

A while back, I saw a photo of Bethenny, her mother and stepfather, and thought the two women were facial clones. I wonder what B sees?

http://starcasm.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/bethenny-frankel-mom-bernadette-john-parisella.jpeg

Edited May 23, 2015 by sleekandchic

[raiderred1]

What a strange looking family. Mom looks like she has the facial swelling characteristic of bulimia (which I see in Bethenny at times. Yes, I know I'm going to excoriated for saying that but this isn't a fan site). Step-dad is an Italian Howdy Doody.

Ah move over gimi, I have my hand basket and I am ready for a trip to hell with you.  I thought the same exact thing.

[breezy424]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that I like Beth's haircut.  First, I give her kuddos for taking the plunge and cutting her hair.  Second, I don't think that the photo itself was the most flattering.  As any regular on the forum knows, I don't like the person that Beth has become but I do like that she's doing something  different.  I give her credit. 

 

It reminds me of when Ramona cut her hair.  Gosh, it was so flattering to her.  It's a shame she's gone back to her long do.  So many of these housewives use their long hair as a blankee.  If they keep it long, they 'believe' it makes them 'look' young.  In most instances, it doesn't. 

[missy jo]

Ugh, Andy had her as the poll on WWHL *and* they're having a "Very Special Episode" with her on Tuesday?

 

IMO, this stems from the caller to WWHL who said they don't like Bethenny since she's returned. His jaw dropped. I've seen him feign shock many times, but this was genuine "what in the actual fuck" shock.

 

I'll go so far as to say this - I bet the editing monkeys might have been assigned to go back and create a kinder, more gentle Bethenny in these later episodes. Like shoehorning in the meeting with her stepfather, even though it didn't really fit with the rest of the episode.

Edited May 23, 2015 by missy jo

[WireWrap]

Well I must not be able to figure out the horse thing then because I thought the picture showed her father, not her step father. Or maybe I have the whole family wrong. Is that her mother? I must confess that I also tend to get myself thoroughly confused just thinking.

The picture is Bethenny, her step-father (we just saw on the episode) and her mother.

 

Here is a photo of her biological father........

Edited May 23, 2015 by WireWrap

[hottesthw]

I think it's because there's no one in the world to support her financially if she doesn't do it herself. She really is all on her own. I know how scary that feels. So... it's fear. Also, she has trouble maintaining intimate relationships, which has to add to her general sense of isolation, which means she feels even more afraid.

No doubt it's scary, if it were only true though. She's got plenty of couches to sleep on if she needed to. And let's not forget she could also go out and ya know, get a job. Move to cheaper Brooklyn or Jersey. Give up all the high paid help. If SG crashes there are plenty of things that woman can do to keep herself off of skid row. She chooses not to though. Which is fine, keep building that empire . But hope she doesn't look back on her grown daughter one day and wonder what happened?

[zoeysmom]

What a strange looking family. Mom looks like she has the facial swelling characteristic of bulimia (which I see in Bethenny at times. Yes, I know I'm going to excoriated for saying that but this isn't a fan site). Step-dad is an Italian Howdy Doody.

Bethenny said her mother resembled Michelle Pfieffer.  Step dad looks like a Bobblehead.  Maybe mom's face is swollen from being beaten.  Here is another photo https://www.google.com/search?q=bernadette+frankel+picture&rls=com.microsoft:en-US:IE-SearchBox&rlz=1I7NDKB_enUS584&tbm=isch&imgil=Ddhi-S4XL19vaM%253A%253BHZC1OxlsGnWqsM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.dailymail.co.uk%25252Ftvshowbiz%25252Farticle-2045755%25252FWhy-Bethenny-Frankels-estranged-mother-believes-reality-TV-stars-marriage-end-divorce.html&source=iu&pf=m&fir=Ddhi-S4XL19vaM%253A%252CHZC1OxlsGnWqsM%252C_&usg=__Aw6yT7Oi7XkzSciUmB2yV7fIdQk%3D&biw=1778&bih=894&dpr=0.9&ved=0CDgQyjc&ei=16VgVfLqNI2vogS96oC4CA#imgrc=Ddhi-S4XL19vaM%253A%3BHZC1OxlsGnWqsM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fi.dailymail.co.uk%252Fi%252Fpix%252F2011%252F10%252F05%252Farticle-2045755-0E3F4C2400000578-865_468x430.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.dailymail.co.uk%252Ftvshowbiz%252Farticle-2045755%252FWhy-Bethenny-Frankels-estranged-mother-believes-reality-TV-stars-marriage-end-divorce.html%3B468%3B430

[zoeysmom]

The picture is Bethenny, her step-father (we just saw on the episode) and her mother.

 

Here is a photo of her biological father........

It just seems so strange to me that Bobby Frankel has been marginalized by Bethenny.  He walked her down the aisle for round 1, he moved out to California and stayed with him, first season NY was all about going to the racetrack and meeting his friends.  Granted there were big gaps but I do think Bethenny certainly used his name and position to get ahead in life.  I will say at the time of his death, Bethenny was about 40 and her had suffered from leukemia for 10 years.  Maybe Bethenny needed to reach out to him.  After watching this week's episode she has no business talking about repeating Sonja, "but I was the child, but I was the child, but I was the child."  Sometimes when one steals step-dad's Porsche and wrecks it or a 17 year old has a mother institutionalized  it is time to reach out to the parent.  I think Bethenny was quite happy waiting for Booby Frankel and step-daddy's checks. It always amazes me how she managed to get college paid for if all these parental figures abandoned her.  Usually the well runs dry first.

[WireWrap]

It just seems so strange to me that Bobby Frankel has been marginalized by Bethenny.  He walked her down the aisle for round 1, he moved out to California and stayed with him, first season NY was all about going to the racetrack and meeting his friends.  Granted there were big gaps but I do think Bethenny certainly used his name and position to get ahead in life.  I will say at the time of his death, Bethenny was about 40 and her had suffered from leukemia for 10 years.  Maybe Bethenny needed to reach out to him.  After watching this week's episode she has no business talking about repeating Sonja, "but I was the child, but I was the child, but I was the child."  Sometimes when one steals step-dad's Porsche and wrecks it or a 17 year old has a mother institutionalized  it is time to reach out to the parent.  I think Bethenny was quite happy waiting for Booby Frankel and step-daddy's checks. It always amazes me how she managed to get college paid for if all these parental figures abandoned her.  Usually the well runs dry first.

When the show first started or in season 2, it was alleged/rumored that Bethenny's father paid the rent on her apartment. IMO, just mine, what she wants us to believe/buy into, is not necessarily the truth when it comes to her real childhood/life before the show. 

 

Something else that bothers me. I read a comment, not here, that made me question Bethenny's core person. When she, Bethenny, was talking to her step-dad and they were talking about him beating her mother, it was all about how it affected Bethenny and nothing about what it did to her mother. There was no "how dare you beat my mother", no "how could you do that to someone you love?" or the realization that those beatings over the decade + could have been at the heart of her mothers mental health/drug/alcohol issues, instead, it was all about Bethennys feelings and how it hurt her. That showed me that Bethenny can not see past her own feelings, if you can't have some empathy for your own mother, what does that say about you as an adult woman and mother yourself?

[Grneyedldy]

Ugh, Andy had her as the poll on WWHL *and* they're having a "Very Special Episode" with her on Tuesday?

 

IMO, this stems from the caller to WWHL who said they don't like Bethenny since she's returned. His jaw dropped. I've seen him feign shock many times, but this was genuine "what in the actual fuck" shock.

 

I'll go so far as to say this - I bet the editing monkeys might have been assigned to go back and create a kinder, more gentle Bethenny in these later episodes. Like shoehorning in the meeting with her stepfather, even though it didn't really fit with the rest of the episode.

Do you think that's the first time Andy Cohen heard that someone disliked Bethenny? It's not like everyone loved her before. I think Andy's shock and awe is just part of his schmaltzy shallowness.

[WireWrap]

Word. The woman was institutionalized ffs!! Of course she's going to be a bit of an absentee mom. Not underplaying how traumatic that must have been but she's old enough to think about how awful that must've been for her mom as well. Why is she siding with the abuser?

I have never gotten the impression from anything Bethenny has said when she talks about her childhood, that she had/has any empathy for her mom, I always got the impression that she placed full blame on her mom. Finding out that her mother was beaten in front of her and then only hearing her talk about her feelings and what that did to her was very revealing IMO and not in a good way either.

Do you think that's the first time Andy Cohen heard that someone disliked Bethenny? It's not like everyone loved her before. I think Andy's shock and awe is just part of his schmaltzy shallowness.

It wasn't just that this caller did not like Bethenny, it was that the caller compared her to JillZ! That is what got Andy nervous, and he was nervous/surprised/worried IMO.

[ZoloftBlob]

The woman was institutionalized ffs!! Of course she's going to be a bit of an absentee mom. Not underplaying how traumatic that must have been but she's old enough to think about how awful that must've been for her mom as well. Why is she siding with the abuser?

 

But you are underplaying how traumatic it must have been when you suggest that Bethenny should react the same way as someone not traumatized by their mother's intense mental issues. Is there any doubt that the adults in the Frankel/Parisella home were emotionally abusive? I know she had private schooling and monetary assistance and therefore isn't a victim of her parents abuse in some peoples eyes but people with money can still be abused. I know its popular to mock the "raised by wolves" line because again, she wasn't eating out of dumpsters and wearing Goodwill when her mom was attempting suicide in front of her...but by all reports, the various adults in that home sound pretty emotionally abusive. Wealth covers up problems, it doesn't stop the problems from *being* problems. Go look at the 19 Kids and Counting thread if you want examples of parents raising their kids with money but otherwise being monstrously emotionally abusive.  Bethenny isn't siding with her dad or her step dad when she isn't forgiving her mom for acting badly, she's just not forgiving her mom. She might never forgive her mom, but to blame her for those emotions is to say she's the one at fault for the abuse her apparently institutionalized mother and alcoholic father and apparently wanted by the mob step dad meted out to her. And no. She was a child.

 

That doesn't excuse her if she were to continue the cycle, but she is under no obligation to forgive her abusive parents. And if I believe even a tenth of whats been said about these people in the media, yes I believe they were abusive *even though Bethenny wasn't raised poor*.

[Crikey]

I think the dip in ratIngs should show Andy what the viewers think of the Beth show RHNY has become.

In my mind I now call her Bethenny Frankely-I-Don't-Give-A-Damn-Anymore.  I just don't.

I might have enjoyed her return had she made some emotional progress but I don't see any growth.  

Fire that therapist!

[WireWrap]

But you are underplaying how traumatic it must have been when you suggest that Bethenny should react the same way as someone not traumatized by their mother's intense mental issues. Is there any doubt that the adults in the Frankel/Parisella home were emotionally abusive? I know she had private schooling and monetary assistance and therefore isn't a victim of her parents abuse in some peoples eyes but people with money can still be abused. I know its popular to mock the "raised by wolves" line because again, she wasn't eating out of dumpsters and wearing Goodwill when her mom was attempting suicide in front of her...but by all reports, the various adults in that home sound pretty emotionally abusive. Wealth covers up problems, it doesn't stop the problems from *being* problems. Go look at the 19 Kids and Counting thread if you want examples of parents raising their kids with money but otherwise being monstrously emotionally abusive.  Bethenny isn't siding with her dad or her step dad when she isn't forgiving her mom for acting badly, she's just not forgiving her mom. She might never forgive her mom, but to blame her for those emotions is to say she's the one at fault for the abuse her apparently institutionalized mother and alcoholic father and apparently wanted by the mob step dad meted out to her. And no. She was a child.

 

That doesn't excuse her if she were to continue the cycle, but she is under no obligation to forgive her abusive parents. And if I believe even a tenth of whats been said about these people in the media, yes I believe they were abusive *even though Bethenny wasn't raised poor*.

What has she said that her mother did to abuse her? She has said that her mom was/is an alcoholic, which I will take her word on that, but did she say her mother beat her because I've not heard those claims. Yes, she moved around a lot but so do many other families and that does not make them bad parents. Bethenny claimed she never had birthday parties yet her mother produced photos showing these parties, so that was either an outright lie or at best, an exaggeration. There are just enough holes in her story about how she was raised to cause me to question her honesty.

 

No, she is not required to forgive anyone but at this point I find it suspicious that she is ready to forgive an abuser, someone that beat her mother and at 1 point, beat her as well but not forgive her mother who was the main victim of that abuse, just to have someone from "her" side for Bryn. That she has not spoken to this man in over 20 years, she would have no idea if he is still a woman beater/alcoholic/addict or not but she wants her daughter to meet him and get to know him. Something is very wrong with this picture IMO.

[ZoloftBlob]

What has she said that her mother did to abuse her?

 

Her mom was an alcoholic who apparently tried to kill herself in front of Bethenny. Both are emotionally abusive.

 

Yes, she moved around a lot but so do many other families and that does not make them bad parents.

 

Hehe. I laugh because a long standing point of anger between my siblings and I is that Mom and Dad cared enough about *me* to not move constantly while they were pulled in and out of schools two or three times a year. Until I came along. My parents were not abusive, they moved a lot when my siblings were young because of my father's work and I benefitted from his getting a decent job but I *assure* you that my siblings consider my parents bad parents because of this.

No, she is not required to forgive anyone but at this point I find it suspicious that she is ready to forgive an abuser, someone that beat her mother and at 1 point, beat her as well but not forgive her mother who was the main victim of that abuse,

 

So her mom kept her in a home where she witnessed domestic abuse and where even you agree she was beaten as well, but you then ask when was she abused?

 

I'm not saying Bethenny isn't messed up, I'm saying she has reason to not forgive her mother if she so chooses and that she's not under any obligation to forgive her mother simply because her mother has spent time in an institution. And honestly, if anything tells me Bethenny is still suffering the after affects of emotional abuse, its her attempt to cling to her stepfather despite all the issues.

[Grneyedldy]

It wasn't just that this caller did not like Bethenny, it was that the caller compared her to JillZ! That is what got Andy nervous, and he was nervous/surprised/worried IMO.

Yeah I still don't see that as being earth shattering info for Andy to go crazy and trying to re-edit Bethenny. Seriously, think of all the things that have been said about one HW or another?

[Crikey]

Her mom was an alcoholic who apparently tried to kill herself in front of Bethenny. Both are emotionally abusive.

 

Hehe. I laugh because a long standing point of anger between my siblings and I is that Mom and Dad cared enough about *me* to not move constantly while they were pulled in and out of schools two or three times a year. Until I came along. My parents were not abusive, they moved a lot when my siblings were young because of my father's work and I benefitted from his getting a decent job but I *assure* you that my siblings consider my parents bad parents because of this.

So her mom kept her in a home where she witnessed domestic abuse and where even you agree she was beaten as well, but you then ask when was she abused?

 

I'm not saying Bethenny isn't messed up, I'm saying she has reason to not forgive her mother if she so chooses and that she's not under any obligation to forgive her mother simply because her mother has spent time in an institution. And honestly, if anything tells me Bethenny is still suffering the after affects of emotional abuse, its her attempt to cling to her stepfather despite all the issues.

Seems to me she wants what she cannot get from her mother and that is her mother admitting the troubled childhood and her mother's part in it, so Bethy chooses to carry that burden.

 

Some folks never admit fault, some never say they are truly sorry.  Ever.   Bethy's Mum seems to be one of those folks.  After it becomes obvious that one will never hear the words one wishes to hear, maybe it is time to take steps to deal with it with the eventual goal of letting go of the burden.

 

Or just wear that baggage forever.  

Edited May 23, 2015 by Crikey

[HunterHunted]

But you are underplaying how traumatic it must have been when you suggest that Bethenny should react the same way as someone not traumatized by their mother's intense mental issues. Is there any doubt that the adults in the Frankel/Parisella home were emotionally abusive? I know she had private schooling and monetary assistance and therefore isn't a victim of her parents abuse in some peoples eyes but people with money can still be abused. I know its popular to mock the "raised by wolves" line because again, she wasn't eating out of dumpsters and wearing Goodwill when her mom was attempting suicide in front of her...but by all reports, the various adults in that home sound pretty emotionally abusive. Wealth covers up problems, it doesn't stop the problems from *being* problems. Go look at the 19 Kids and Counting thread if you want examples of parents raising their kids with money but otherwise being monstrously emotionally abusive.  Bethenny isn't siding with her dad or her step dad when she isn't forgiving her mom for acting badly, she's just not forgiving her mom. She might never forgive her mom, but to blame her for those emotions is to say she's the one at fault for the abuse her apparently institutionalized mother and alcoholic father and apparently wanted by the mob step dad meted out to her. And no. She was a child.

 

That doesn't excuse her if she were to continue the cycle, but she is under no obligation to forgive her abusive parents. And if I believe even a tenth of whats been said about these people in the media, yes I believe they were abusive *even though Bethenny wasn't raised poor*.

I have a friend whose family dynamics were very similar to Bethenny, but my friend's family was middle-class. Her step father physically abused her mother, my friend and her siblings, but my friend's mother was horrifically emotionally abusive. And sometimes it is hard to open up about emotional abuse because often the recipient of the abuse has internalized a lot of the abuse. My friend's mom would constantly say that she wished that my friend had never been born, not her siblings just her. Her mother would threaten to kill herself and my friend. She would tell my friend that she was worthless, ugly, stupid. She would beat my friend. And my friend is now much more sympathetic towards her step father because even though he physically hurt her, her siblings, and her mother, he never tried to hurt her emotionally like her mother did. If Bethenny's mother was even a little like this, I can see why Bethenny would have issues connecting with her.

[ZoloftBlob]

Some folks never admit fault, some never say they are truly sorry.  Ever.   After it becomes obvious that one will never hear the words one wishes to hear, maybe it is time to take steps to deal with it with the eventual goal of letting go of the burden.

 

That may be the case. I have also wondered if reaching out to her step dad is part of the healing process.

 

But if she choses to keep the burden or not, it doesn't mean her mom doesn't owe her a "I'm truly sorry". As I said earlier, if I believe even a tenth of the stories told, even though there was money, I don't think Bethenny had a good childhood. Her mom, dad, and stepdad all come across emotionally abusive and into substance abuse.

 

Yep. You can accept the  victim narrative, or you can be the author of your own story (as cheesy and hackneyed as that sounds)

 

Seems like Bethenny manages both ;)

Edited May 23, 2015 by ZoloftBlob

[biakbiak]

I did thing it was interesting that Bethenny' s buff who she went to high school had heard that John was abusive to her mother but never heard about him attacking Bethenny and John just sort of shrugged his shoulders when she mentioned it to him. It matter me what exactly happened that day.

[Crikey]

That may be the case. I have also wondered if reaching out to her step dad is part of the healing process.

 

But if she choses to keep the burden or not, it doesn't mean her mom doesn't owe her a "I'm truly sorry". As I said earlier, if I believe even a tenth of the stories told, even though there was money, I don't think Bethenny had a good childhood. Her mom, dad, and stepdad all come across emotionally abusive and into substance abuse.

 

Seems like Bethenny manages both ;)

Her Mum might owe her an apology.  Living one's life waiting for it might cause one more damage than the original reason she was due it.

 

Your last line was in response to gimmepizzauoldtroll (I like that name lol) posting:  

 

"Yep. You can accept the  victim narrative, or you can be the author of your own story (as cheesy and hackneyed as that sounds)"

 

I just don't agree that she has both.  She is still allowing her parents and her stepfather to be the author of her story.  She has financial success, yes, but she is still letting her childhood rule her life.

 

Having an interesting back and forth in a calm fashion with folks who agree or disagree  is nice.  Thanks to mods and posters!

[ZoloftBlob]

She is still allowing her parents and her stepfather to be the author of her story.  She has financial success, yes, but she is still letting her childhood rule her life.

 

And she may not escape that. She wouldn't be the first - trust me, I still hear about how I was the favorite because I didn't get pulled from school in moves every year... even though school was a long long time ago. Frankly, I think Bethenny would benefit from therapy and from accepting her success and stepping out of the rat race.

[WireWrap]

Her mom was an alcoholic who apparently tried to kill herself in front of Bethenny. Both are emotionally abusive.

 

Hehe. I laugh because a long standing point of anger between my siblings and I is that Mom and Dad cared enough about *me* to not move constantly while they were pulled in and out of schools two or three times a year. Until I came along. My parents were not abusive, they moved a lot when my siblings were young because of my father's work and I benefitted from his getting a decent job but I *assure* you that my siblings consider my parents bad parents because of this.

So her mom kept her in a home where she witnessed domestic abuse and where even you agree she was beaten as well, but you then ask when was she abused?

 

I'm not saying Bethenny isn't messed up, I'm saying she has reason to not forgive her mother if she so chooses and that she's not under any obligation to forgive her mother simply because her mother has spent time in an institution. And honestly, if anything tells me Bethenny is still suffering the after affects of emotional abuse, its her attempt to cling to her stepfather despite all the issues.

In all honesty, I do not believe her story. I believe it is a work of fiction mixed with some truth. IMO, Bethenny is a narcissist and will always play the victim in her personal/private life.

Yeah I still don't see that as being earth shattering info for Andy to go crazy and trying to re-edit Bethenny. Seriously, think of all the things that have been said about one HW or another?

There are few HWs that Andy has contact with outside their HW shows, Bethenny is 1 of them. He also counted on her return to boost ratings and that has failed big time so far.

I have a friend whose family dynamics were very similar to Bethenny, but my friend's family was middle-class. Her step father physically abused her mother, my friend and her siblings, but my friend's mother was horrifically emotionally abusive. And sometimes it is hard to open up about emotional abuse because often the recipient of the abuse has internalized a lot of the abuse. My friend's mom would constantly say that she wished that my friend had never been born, not her siblings just her. Her mother would threaten to kill herself and my friend. She would tell my friend that she was worthless, ugly, stupid. She would beat my friend. And my friend is now much more sympathetic towards her step father because even though he physically hurt her, her siblings, and her mother, he never tried to hurt her emotionally like her mother did. If Bethenny's mother was even a little like this, I can see why Bethenny would have issues connecting with her.

Bethenny has made no claims other than moving a lot, her mother/step father alcoholism, her step father beating her mother and 1 instance of her mother threatening to kill herself. She has never claimed her mother beat her or even than her step father did, except 1 time when she was 19 years old and helping her mother leave him for  husband #3. Again, her step father beat her, after they had moved away from him, not her mother. Oh, and Bethenny never, ever, claimed her mother said she never wanted to have kids or that she wished Bethenny was never born. The step father told her that during filming and Bethenny looked shock but he never said that her mom did not love her.

[ZoloftBlob]

Bethenny has made no claims other than moving a lot, her mother/step father alcoholism, her step father beating her mother and 1 instance of her mother threatening to kill herself. She has never claimed her mother beat her or even than her step father did, except 1 time when she was 19 years old and helping her mother leave him for  husband #3. Again, her step father beat her, after they had moved away from him, not her mother. Oh, and Bethenny never, ever, claimed her mother said she never wanted to have kids or that she wished Bethenny was never born. The step father told her that during filming and Bethenny looked shock but he never said that her mom did not love her.

 

That's actually pretty emotionally abusive where I sit.

 

In fairness, if she spelled out every terrible thing that happened, would you even consider believing her? You just said this:

 

In all honesty, I do not believe her story. I believe it is a work of fiction mixed with some truth. IMO, Bethenny is a narcissist and will always play the victim in her personal/private life.

 

Her step dad just willingly described her childhood as pretty bad. I mean, it's not my job to change your mind, but why engage in the debate if you're already decided? I can at least conceive of the possibility Bethenny could be lying or exaggerating.

[ButterQueen]

I am actually enjoying Bethenny's return. What kills the episodes for me is Sonja. She's just painful to watch.

[WireWrap]

That's actually pretty emotionally abusive where I sit.

 

In fairness, if she spelled out every terrible thing that happened, would you even consider believing her? You just said this:

 

Her step dad just willingly described her childhood as pretty bad. I mean, it's not my job to change your mind, but why engage in the debate if you're already decided? I can at least conceive of the possibility Bethenny could be lying or exaggerating.

No one has a perfect childhood, no one. If we took magnifying glasses to them I am sure we would see/hear things someone would consider "abusive". I don't consider what Bethenny has described from her mother as over the top as she likes to describe it. I do believe her step father was abusive to her mother, he admitted to it, but nowhere did he or Bethenny ever say that her mother beat her, denied her love/affection or withheld the necessities (food, water, shelter) to her. I think Bethenny blamed her mother for her father (biological father) leaving them/her and decided she was to blame for any and everything that went wrong, even when her mother was a victim herself. JMO

Usually, There is a lot of ambivalence in relationships between kids and parents where there has been abusive behavior. Beth only sees the bad side. A proper therapist would be able to help Beth see her mom for the complicated, mentally ill person she was (and likely still is) and move on with her life.

 If Bethenny was really abused then why hasn't she sought out real help, not some Dr. that agreed to be filmed for a "reality" show? It was also telling that she said she had not seen this Dr for a very long time, before she filed for divorce, a time of high stress but she chose not to seek his help. That is until she was once again filming a "reality" show. JMO

I am actually enjoying Bethenny's return. What kills the episodes for me is Sonja. She's just painful to watch.

Sonja has turned into KimR's and KellyB's child this season! Alcohol, pills and mental instability all combined into 1 person. Sad, painful and scary to witness.

[ZoloftBlob]

. If we took magnifying glasses to them I am sure we would see/hear things someone would consider "abusive".

 

I don't need a magnifying glass to see that living with an alcoholic who attempted suicide in front of her child and a wife beater who admitted to hitting his stepchild is an abusive setting. Was it locked in a sex dungeon in Cleveland? No. Was it "not abusive"? Also no.

[zoeysmom]

No one has a perfect childhood, no one. If we took magnifying glasses to them I am sure we would see/hear things someone would consider "abusive". I don't consider what Bethenny has described from her mother as over the top as she likes to describe it. I do believe her step father was abusive to her mother, he admitted to it, but nowhere did he or Bethenny ever say that her mother beat her, denied her love/affection or withheld the necessities (food, water, shelter) to her. I think Bethenny blamed her mother for her father (biological father) leaving them/her and decided she was to blame for any and everything that went wrong, even when her mother was a victim herself. JMO

 If Bethenny was really abused then why hasn't she sought out real help, not some Dr. that agreed to be filmed for a "reality" show? It was also telling that she said she had not seen this Dr for a very long time, before she filed for divorce, a time of high stress but she chose not to seek his help. That is until she was once again filming a "reality" show. JMO

Sonja has turned into KimR's and KellyB's child this season! Alcohol, pills and mental instability all combined into 1 person. Sad, painful and scary to witness.

Sonja and Bethenny are polar opposites-Sonja's life is coming down around her and she asks the people not dwell in the negative.  Bethenny has many things going her way-after all she and Jason have now been apart longer than they were married and she seeks the negative.

 

It just sees that at some point Bethenny will have to hear from her daughter-I wish you would have stopped after you and dad separated.  I didn't really need my parents lives played out on TV.

I don't need a magnifying glass to see that living with an alcoholic who attempted suicide in front of her child and a wife beater who admitted to hitting his stepchild is an abusive setting. Was it locked in a sex dungeon in Cleveland? No. Was it "not abusive"? Also no.

Certainly dysfunctional and I am uncertain who the alcoholic was-because at this point I think Bethenny might be a bit jaded.  The suicide thing is sad.  So I would say the climate was one of abuse and the leader was John.

[WireWrap]

I don't need a magnifying glass to see that living with an alcoholic who attempted suicide in front of her child and a wife beater who admitted to hitting his stepchild is an abusive setting. Was it locked in a sex dungeon in Cleveland? No. Was it "not abusive"? Also no.

First, Bethenny was 19 when her step father beat her, old enough to press charges if she wanted but there is no mention of her doing it and that abuse is on him, not her mother. Second, we don't know if her mother was an alcoholic her whole childhood or just during the time she threatened suicide, Bethenny does not elaborate on that. Third, if her mother was committed after this suicide attempt/threat shouldn't that evoke some realization that she was not of sound mind at that point since it seems it was a 1 time only thing? Bethenny has made no claims, that I have heard/read, of her mother threatening suicide at any other time. Did Bethenny have a nonconventional/weird/hard life, Yes, but IMO, it was not as bad/ugly she tries to sell it. JMO

Edited May 24, 2015 by WireWrap

[WireWrap]

Certainly dysfunctional and I am uncertain who the alcoholic was-because at this point I think Bethenny might be a bit jaded.  The suicide thing is sad.  So I would say the climate was one of abuse and the leader was John.

IMO, Bethenny places sole blame on her mother for what her step father did, not him. It seems like she only got mad at him when her beat her at 19 yet she chose to not press charges against him and is willing to forgive him, give him a second chance now on film.

[ZoloftBlob]

First, Bethenny was 19 when her step father beat her, old enough to press charges if she wanted but there is no mention of her doing it and that abuse is on him, not her mother

 

Parents are supposed to protect their children. Witnessing her mom be beaten by her stepdad is emotional abuse for a child. If her mom kept her in that home as a minor child while Mom was being domestically abused, that's on her mom.

 

eta - I also trust you're not suggesting all women who are struck in domestic disputes who don't call the cops aren't being abused. Because that's sadly pretty common in domestic violence situations.

Second, we don't know if her mother was an alcoholic her whole childhood or just during the time she threatened suicide,

 

Alcoholism is considered a disease. Once Bethenny's mom was an alcoholic, she didn't magically stop being an alcoholic. She might be in recovery, but there's no cure. Also, being alcoholic and threatening to kill yourself in front of your child is yes, emotionally abusive to the child.

Third, if her mother was committed after this suicide attempt/threat shouldn't that evoke some realization that she was not of sound mind at that point since it seems it was a 1 time only thing?

 

Bethenny was a child when this happened, number one. So you're asking a child to make a very adult analysis. Second, Bethenny doesn't *have to* forgive her mother or *have to* show her mother empathy that she never got. I think she'd be better off if she did, but her mom is not the victim here. Bethenny was a child when this went down. Children don't have to apologize to their parents for getting in the way of their alcoholic suicide attempt.

Edited May 24, 2015 by ZoloftBlob

[WireWrap]

Parents are supposed to protect their children. Witnessing her mom be beaten by her stepdad is emotional abuse for a child. If her mom kept her in that home as a minor child while Mom was being domestically abused, that's on her mom.

Alcoholism is considered a disease. Once Bethenny's mom was an alcoholic, she didn't magically stop being an alcoholic. She might be in recovery, but there's no cure. Also, being alcoholic and threatening to kill yourself in front of your child is yes, emotionally abusive to the child.

Bethenny was a child when this happened, number one. So you're asking a child to make a very adult analysis. Second, Bethenny doesn't *have to* forgive her mother or *have to* show her mother empathy that she never got. I think she'd be better off if she did, but her mom is not the victim here. Bethenny was a child when this went down. Children don't have to apologize to their parents for getting in the way of their alcoholic suicide attempt.

Wait, What? Bethenny's mother was not a victim? You don't consider women beaten by their husbands victims, so there are no domestic violence victims except children then? Her mother was a victim and not all victims can/will/do leave their abusers and I have never heard those women called abusers themselves for not leaving. The guilt of that abuse is on her step father, not her mom.

 

Again, the fact that she was committed to a hospital for mental health means that she was not of sound mind, therefore not responsible, not thinking/acting in her own best interest, let alone anyone else's.  Bethenny speaks about the alcoholism and the suicide threat as though they happened during the same time frame. She, Bethenny, makes no claims of abuse directly from her mother other than during that time, so logic says she got the help she needed.   

 

I have never said that Bethenny "has to" forgive anyone but I do find it suspect that she decides to forgive her step father, the man who beat her mother and beat her 1 time as well on camera! IMO, if her mother had agreed to be filmed, she would have had that sit down with her mother instead, the key words here are agreed to be filmed. Who said anything about Bethenny apologizing to her mother? I did not.

[ZoloftBlob]

I do consider Bethenny's mom a victim of her partner's domestic abuse. I do not consider Bethenny one of her abusers - that would be her husband. If she was so mentally ill, she was unable to care for her child who was what 11-13? at the time her alcoholism and suicidal tendencies caused her commitment. Bethenny was a child who could not simply walk way. I have sympathy for Bethenny's mom in that she was mentally ill but it doesn't change the fact that she was emotionally abusive to her child in her actions. "I was mentally ill" is a factor for mercy, I agree, but as a parent you're still on the hook if your personal brand of crazy harms your child. To use a not RHONY example - I think Andrea Yates was clearly and demonstrably mentally ill when she drowned her five kids in the tub. I feel sorry for her. But that doesn't make her kids any less dead and it doesn't mean she didn't harm them.

 

That Bethenny might be forgiving her stepdad might in part be due to how he is at least willing to pay lip service to the idea he wasn't great dad. Or it could be a put on.

 

You didn't respond to what I asked earlier. Are you saying if women who are struck in domestic violence situations don't call the police that they aren't being abused? Because again, its actually sadly quite common for the police to not be called.

[Crikey]

Parents are supposed to protect their children. Witnessing her mom be beaten by her stepdad is emotional abuse for a child. If her mom kept her in that home as a minor child while Mom was being domestically abused, that's on her mom.

 

eta - I also trust you're not suggesting all women who are struck in domestic disputes who don't call the cops aren't being abused. Because that's sadly pretty common in domestic violence situations.

Alcoholism is considered a disease. Once Bethenny's mom was an alcoholic, she didn't magically stop being an alcoholic. She might be in recovery, but there's no cure. Also, being alcoholic and threatening to kill yourself in front of your child is yes, emotionally abusive to the child.

Bethenny was a child when this happened, number one. So you're asking a child to make a very adult analysis. Second, Bethenny doesn't *have to* forgive her mother or *have to* show her mother empathy that she never got. I think she'd be better off if she did, but her mom is not the victim here. Bethenny was a child when this went down. Children don't have to apologize to their parents for getting in the way of their alcoholic suicide attempt.

As a 13 year old I saw a parent being hauled away on a stretcher after a suicide attempt and sat vigil and talked him out of it another time.  My sisters and I have not considered the attempt as being abusive.  It was the act of a man with serious psychological issues.  Granted, he was also abusive and lashed outward  at the one closest but I think the suicide attempts were the few times he turned his problems inward.  For our whole  family it was very traumatic, I just don't see it as being abusive except towards himself.

 

A trouble I have with Bethy is that she exaggerates often to make her situation appear much worse than it is.  When a person tends toward exaggeration, it becomes difficult to wade through and find the truth.