Bethenny Frankel: Skinny Girl

[Celia Rubenstein]

The reality of it , it is marital property, bought during the marriage, not before or after but during and that makes it 50/50 ownership, correct?

 

I don't know for sure ...  there is the fact that it was bought with what appears to be 100% "her" money (about half came from a loan in her name and half from one of her bank accounts)  which may make a difference in terms of it being a marital asset subject to division. I have not had time to look at any New York law this morning to figure it out.  I think you would need to know the terms of their pre-nup to answer this question, too.  There may be a provision about things bought with "her money," you never know. 

 

Actually, I think the important thing is this :  wasn't there something about the apartment actually being SkinnyGirl property?  That makes me think she used SkinnyGirl money.  And she still owns SkinnyGirl Company, didn't she say that, despite this Beam deal?  

 

At any rate, the apartment was bought then immediately moved into a trust for the sake of "privacy" (or so Bethenny thought, lol).   And the fact that Jason is the trustee of that trust is what has allowed him to go on living in the apartment.  But since the trust doesn't exist, the trust can't own the apartment ... it in effect reverts back to whoever originally owned it.  It would belong to either SkinnyGirl OR belong to Bethenny and depending upon NY state law and their pre-nup, it may be subject to division (or maybe not!)

 

I think if we give this story another day or two, people more knowledgable about the law and facts will write about in various blogs and on gossip sites and things will become clearer. 

Edited May 15, 2015 by Celia Rubenstein

[Alonzo Mosely FBI]

I believe there are some instances where Notaries can notarize in states other than where they reside.

 

Bethenny's argument that she did not know what she was signing is laughable. Ignorance is no excuse.

 

I don't believe this story for a second. It's Radar for crying out loud! I believe Bethenny is claiming she didn't know what she signed, and I believe she is trying to disassemble the integrity of her ex husband and his parents. That's all I believe. Desperate times call for desperate measures.

[zoeysmom]

OMG, are you for real?

 

Could you please post the text of the link? my computer doesn't like ROL at all and I am dying to read about this , I knew Jason was a manipulative POS but this seals the deal, he is a scheaming, conniving, good for nothing. His mother was on the scheme? what ? Mrs. Carole , the sweet lady who we all saw was so pristine? lying to give her son the heads up in case some divorce came up in the future? Nah... sure there is a mistake somewhere, people who look like Jason and Carole could never lie, never... (dripping sarcasm)

Essentially the court sent them back to square one stating the trust Bethenny signed is invalid for a number of reasons.  In one instance Bethenny was duped into signing it and another it is not her signature.  The court sent the parties back to the otion table to argue it because the trust wasn't perfected. 

 

Carole Hoppy was the notary but she is not a notary in New York.  

 

Sounds to me like Jason should be packing his bags and Bethenny will be going from homeless to homes aplenty in NYC.

[Mrs peel]

Yeah, there is a question of fact or law, alright ... a BIG ONE.  Mostly pertaining to just how big a lying, manipulative scheming thief Jason Hoppy is.

 

Read this, hot off the presses : http://radaronline.com/celebrity-news/bethenny-frankel-divorce-drama-apartment-jason-hoppy/

 

Essentially, the judge has ruled that the documents Jason used to create the trust to hold the Tribeca apartment are invalid.  They were witnessed and notarized falsely.   Jason's own mother was in on this little deal, too!  It was his sweet innocent little Mama who lied about where she was authorized as a notary so she could seal the deal, lol.  And someone lied about who witnessed what and where.  Bethenny says she just signed what Jason put in front of her, trusting him like a fool, and it appears that Jason basically tricked her into signing things that moved the apartment from the zone of being her personal property into being joint property under their prenup.  

 

Fortunately his fraud has been exposed. 

 

The upshot of this all is that the trust that was created to hold the Tribeca apartment doesn't legally exist and since Jason only gets to stay there because he is the trustee, it seems like his ass needs to start packing.  The judge is going to make a ruling about who actually owns the apartment now that the trust clearly does not, and since it was all bought with Bethenny's pre-Jason money (and he has been revealed as a scheming liar) I am thinking Bethey is going to get her apartment back.

I don't think the decision shows Jason to be a "scheming liar."  Let's face it, Bethenny had the lawyers, she had the $$.  It was up to her to ask her attorneys about the terms of the trust.  She failed to read it?  Tough shit on her.  She signed it without reading it?  Tough shit on her.  She failed to ask about all the options?  Tough shit on her. 

 

It is in fact true that many people use trusts to buy property in order to shield the true ownership.  It wasn't at all unusual that Bethenny would choose this method of purchasing.  It would seem logical for Jason to be the trustee, because Bethenny and/or the daughter is/are the beneficiary of the trust.  So B can't really be the trustee.  But now that they are divorced, she can certainly change the trustee.

 

I have no idea if a family member can't notarize a document.  But let's remember that all a notary stamp does is provide proof that the person who showed up to sign the document is in fact the person who signed it, in that they had some form of ID with that name on it.  I will tell you there are many, many notaries who fail to follow the letter of the law on notarizing documents.  If they know the person, they don't demand ID.  If they really, really know the person, they don't require it have been signed in front of them.  I have had a notary ask me what date I wanted for the notarization - a cardinal sin for notaries.   HIs mother was likely just trying to help out, but in point of fact it was the attorney's job to make sure that document was signed/notarized.  The language that the notary is in NY is just a format thing, because I would bet the attorney expected Bethenny and Jason to sign at his office in NY. 

 

Now, if Bethenny never signed the document and the signature was forged?  That's another ball of wax.  But that doesn't seem to be what she's saying her (especially since the article indicates she is claiming to have only seen the signature page).  But if she was at the closing for the purchase, she certainly knows the trust was established.  It wasn't a secret.

[zoeysmom]

I think Bethenny's claim is that she signed the paper work putting Jason as head trustee for the trust that purchased the apartment. Since he is head of the trust, he controls the property, or something, so he can't be forced out of the apartment even though Bethenny purchased it with money from her corporation. If Jason wasn't in charge of the trust, the prenup would come into play in how Bethenny paid for the apartment.

 

The gist of this article is that a judge found that the trust was never really legally established, in part because everyone involved is agreeing that they never went to Pennsylvania and signed the paper work in front of the notary, Mrs. Carole, Jason's mother (and I could be wrong but I somehow thought notaries weren't supposed to do stuff for family anyway) If the trust was never properly established, then it doesn't exist, and Jason has no rights as the head of a trust that was never legally established. At which point, who owns the apartment now swings closer to Bethenny.

 

If this is all true... then yes, it does put the "Oh gosh and golly, Jason's parents are ust lil ol piles of sweetness, they can't never ever be anything but loving to that evil whore who stole their sweet boy" view into a new light. Because really, if his mom did use her notary powers to help him screw over his wife then no, she's not that nice.

I don't think the Hoppys ever said anything like that about Bethenny. 

 

I can't imagine the COurt couldn't just make a ruling if the trust is invalid.

[MatildaMoody]

I don't think the Hoppys ever said anything like that about Bethenny. 

 

I can't imagine the COurt couldn't just make a ruling if the trust is invalid.

I think the OP was talking about the way onlookers of the divorce have referred to Bethenny in reference to the Hoppy's, not how the Hoppy's themselves has spoken of Bethenny.

 

I thought they did make a ruling that the trust is invalid and the apartment now falls under what was set up in the prenup? Did I read that wrong? It seems they are going back to square one as the trust is invalid, so however the property is designated in the prenup will be the determining factor in who gets it.

 

 

I don't think the decision shows Jason to be a "scheming liar."  Let's face it, Bethenny had the lawyers, she had the $$.  It was up to her to ask her attorneys about the terms of the trust.  She failed to read it?  Tough shit on her.  She signed it without reading it?  Tough shit on her.  She failed to ask about all the options?  Tough shit on her. 

 

It is in fact true that many people use trusts to buy property in order to shield the true ownership.  It wasn't at all unusual that Bethenny would choose this method of purchasing.  It would seem logical for Jason to be the trustee, because Bethenny and/or the daughter is/are the beneficiary of the trust.  So B can't really be the trustee.  But now that they are divorced, she can certainly change the trustee.

 

I have no idea if a family member can't notarize a document.  But let's remember that all a notary stamp does is provide proof that the person who showed up to sign the document is in fact the person who signed it, in that they had some form of ID with that name on it.  I will tell you there are many, many notaries who fail to follow the letter of the law on notarizing documents.  If they know the person, they don't demand ID.  If they really, really know the person, they don't require it have been signed in front of them.  I have had a notary ask me what date I wanted for the notarization - a cardinal sin for notaries.   HIs mother was likely just trying to help out, but in point of fact it was the attorney's job to make sure that document was signed/notarized.  The language that the notary is in NY is just a format thing, because I would bet the attorney expected Bethenny and Jason to sign at his office in NY. 

 

Now, if Bethenny never signed the document and the signature was forged?  That's another ball of wax.  But that doesn't seem to be what she's saying her (especially since the article indicates she is claiming to have only seen the signature page).  But if she was at the closing for the purchase, she certainly knows the trust was established.  It wasn't a secret.

 

If the trust is invalid, it is invalid. The judge ruled it to be invalid, so I guess I don't see why it is "tough shit on Bethenny." The formalities of setting up this trust were ignored which negates the trust. It sounds more like tough shit on Jason since he stands to lose the footing he was counting on that allowed him to continue living there. 

[QuinnM]

 

I thought they did make a ruling that the trust is invalid and the apartment now falls under what was set up in the prenup? Did I read that wrong? It seems they are going back to square one as the trust is invalid, so however the property is designated in the prenup will be the determining factor in who gets it.

 

I had to read the article a couple of times.  I just hate ROL.  The headlines never reflect the text and then the text is like a jigsaw puzzle.  But I understood that the trust was invalid.  The judge ruled.  So I'm sure B submitted items and J had to answer/explain/defend.  They noted two assertions by B that J left unanswered.  That tells me that B is probably correct and J's best course of action is to say nothing.  Right now this is a dissolution of marital assists.  There isn't a criminal complaint.  But there sure could be if Jason either openly admitted it or attempted to claim B as incorrect.

 

 

Jason said himself that he went ot PA every other weekend and his parents would come to NYC the other two weekends of the month, which means that whether they were in PA or NYC , Jason was with his parents every single weekend. For some people that might seem the norm but IMO Jason needed to ease up Bethenny on this routine much more smoothly, Bethenny wanted to have her own weekends where just the three of them got to do things on their own and I can't fault her for that because usually newly weds want to spend most of their time together without family members around.

 

This is when I figured his parents were creepy.  What parents think that it's a good thing for their grown ass son, his wife and his daughter to spend every weekend with them.  My parents would have thought there was a problem that I had no friends or life without them.  So I really did believe the story of his dad flouncy about the house in his underwear and now of course his mother falsifying a legal document.  Falsifying it to the tune of $5 million dollar fraud.  Man I hope when this is done that she doesn't end up in serious legal trouble.  If you are a notary you have some really strict laws you are expected to follow.

[FozzyBear]

Jesus Christ! The clips for next week look harsh. Her mother never wanted a child? Her mother attempted suicide in front of her? Holly shit that is fucked up.

[Celia Rubenstein]

I don't think the decision shows Jason to be a "scheming liar."  Let's face it, Bethenny had the lawyers, she had the $$.  It was up to her to ask her attorneys about the terms of the trust.  She failed to read it?  Tough shit on her.  She signed it without reading it?  Tough shit on her.  She failed to ask about all the options? Tough shit on her.

 

So because Bethenny was foolish enough to trust Jason, she deserves to lose her apartment?  I can't agree.  It's sad world when you can't trust your own husband to tell you the truth about something you are signing without flying it in front of your attorney first.  

 

At any rate, it really doesn't matter since the lies involved in the creation of the trust voided the whole thing.  It doesn't matter how much money she has or if she read it or had her lawyer approve it or not.  For all legal intents and purposes, it is as if the trust never existed.  This due to Jason (and his mother's actions), which I do think  speaks to Jason's honesty.  

 

He filed legal paperwork full of falsehoods.  It would hardly be unduly burdensome to have done things legally.  They were together at the time, seeing the Hoppys at both their Pennsylvania home and in NYC.  Why not just do things the right way? Or maybe use a notary who is not your mother, which is just a bad idea.  It is lazy and irresponsible at best, and scheming is certainly not out of the realm of possibility.  And who fabricated the thing about it being done in front of this lawyer who supposedly signed as a witness?  That is a big glaring lie that really makes me suspicious.  Why lie like that? 

 

With all these lies Jason was involved in, it makes me wonder if the signature Bethenny put down on that piece of paper really ended up attached and filed with the paperwork she thought she was agreeing to, or if Jason attached her signature page to another version of the document that was more beneficial to him.  It happens.  That is why we have notaries stamp every page of an agreement and witnesses to the signing.  But since Mom was the notary, and the witness seems to have not really been a witness, it is suspicious as hell to me. 

 

 

It sounds more like tough shit on Jason since he stands to lose the footing he was counting on that allowed him to continue living there.

 

Indeed!

[Celia Rubenstein]

There isn't a criminal complaint.  But there sure could be if Jason either openly admitted it or attempted to claim B as incorrect.

 

I don't know if criminal charges could be brought or not, but I agree Mommy Hoppy can kiss her Notary commission goodbye.   

 

It would be really funny if Jason ends up on the hook for paying Bethenny back back rent for living there all this time without her.   

[zoeysmom]

I think the OP was talking about the way onlookers of the divorce have referred to Bethenny in reference to the Hoppy's, not how the Hoppy's themselves has spoken of Bethenny.

 

I thought they did make a ruling that the trust is invalid and the apartment now falls under what was set up in the prenup? Did I read that wrong? It seems they are going back to square one as the trust is invalid, so however the property is designated in the prenup will be the determining factor in who gets it.

 

 

 

If the trust is invalid, it is invalid. The judge ruled it to be invalid, so I guess I don't see why it is "tough shit on Bethenny." The formalities of setting up this trust were ignored which negates the trust. It sounds more like tough shit on Jason since he stands to lose the footing he was counting on that allowed him to continue living there. 

It works to Bethenny's advantage. 

[zoeysmom]

Jesus Christ! The clips for next week look harsh. Her mother never wanted a child? Her mother attempted suicide in front of her? Holly shit that is fucked up.

My burning question-why make this public?  Does she hate her mother that much?  I am starting to want to drink the Richards/Hilton Kool-Aid where they keep some family matters private.

 

I also have issues with Bethenny's recollections.  Lost at sea comes to mind and being rescued buy the USCG.

[MatildaMoody]

It works to Bethenny's advantage. 

 

It does. if the loan was taken out in Bethenny's name and the additional money put down to purchase also came from Bethenny's account, it is definitely to her advantage as all of documentation points to her being a sole owner. It seems odd to me that Jason wouldn't have at least been listed on the original loan for the mortgage if they were married when it was purchased.

[ZoloftBlob]

think the OP was talking about the way onlookers of the divorce have referred to Bethenny in reference to the Hoppy's, not how the Hoppy's themselves has spoken of Bethenny.

 

Yup - thats where I was going. The whole view that it can't be imagined that sweet Mr. and Mrs. Hoppy might be or do anything like say hang out in his underpants in front of guests or cheerfully use her notary stamp to her son's benefit. To be less humorous and more blunt, Mama Hoppy clearly wasn't thinking about *Bethenny* when she did this.

 

Mind you, I do want to see someone other than TMZ report but like I said, if true, then these innocent simply country grandparents aren't so simple or innocent.

[QuinnM]

The other interesting point is that this ruling only means that they both need to refile based on the ruling.  So that means that B can now argue to retain the apartment or to sell it and split profit.  J no longer can file to stay there forever.  So it really changes the landscape.  I always thought that J knew how much B wanted that apartment so he was using it as leverage to get more in the settlement.  Now he's lost the leverage.

[WireWrap]

So because Bethenny was foolish enough to trust Jason, she deserves to lose her apartment?  I can't agree.  It's sad world when you can't trust your own husband to tell you the truth about something you are signing without flying it in front of your attorney first.  

 

At any rate, it really doesn't matter since the lies involved in the creation of the trust voided the whole thing.  It doesn't matter how much money she has or if she read it or had her lawyer approve it or not.  For all legal intents and purposes, it is as if the trust never existed.  This due to Jason (and his mother's actions), which I do think  speaks to Jason's honesty.  

 

He filed legal paperwork full of falsehoods.  It would hardly be unduly burdensome to have done things legally.  They were together at the time, seeing the Hoppys at both their Pennsylvania home and in NYC.  Why not just do things the right way? Or maybe use a notary who is not your mother, which is just a bad idea.  It is lazy and irresponsible at best, and scheming is certainly not out of the realm of possibility.  And who fabricated the thing about it being done in front of this lawyer who supposedly signed as a witness?  That is a big glaring lie that really makes me suspicious.  Why lie like that? 

 

With all these lies Jason was involved in, it makes me wonder if the signature Bethenny put down on that piece of paper really ended up attached and filed with the paperwork she thought she was agreeing to, or if Jason attached her signature page to another version of the document that was more beneficial to him.  It happens.  That is why we have notaries stamp every page of an agreement and witnesses to the signing.  But since Mom was the notary, and the witness seems to have not really been a witness, it is suspicious as hell to me. 

 

 

 

Indeed!

Does anyone really believe that Bethenny never read the paperwork? I do not, she is way too savvy to let that slip by or to not have her personal lawyers read it, going over it with a fine tooth comb. Not buying it.

[Celia Rubenstein]

Does anyone really believe that Bethenny never read the paperwork? I do not, she is way too savvy to let that slip by or to not have her personal lawyers read it, going over it with a fine tooth comb. Not buying it.

 

She was dumb enough to marry Jason, so ....

 

Seriously though, I can see Bethenny (like many people) skimming a document and thinking she had the ability to really understand it, but some of the finer legal ramifications of what she was doing went over her head.  I would not have known that by creating some kind of general trust to hold an apartment meant that the trustee could live there indefinitely.  The exact language to spell that out may have been hidden or quite indecipherable.  

 

Of course, her lawyer would have told her what she was signing.  And that is why I am thinking she didn't have it reviewed ... she never would have signed it.  She was willing to not go through with her wedding if Jason wouldn't sign the pre-nup, after all.  So at most she did a half-assed job reading it, trusted Jason, and made a HUGE mistake. Fortunately Jason did too, lol.  I wonder how the judge views his credibility now? 

[ZoloftBlob]

Does anyone really believe that Bethenny never read the paperwork? I do not, she is way too savvy to let that slip by or to not have her personal lawyers read it, going over it with a fine tooth comb. Not buying it.

 

I see it *every day* in my line of work. Let me count the ways. She was too busy and just signed it. She wanted to reassure Jason that she trusted him to do something without having her personal lawyers read it. In a moment of weakness, she signed it rather than start a fight over it. Smart business women do dumb things in marriage all the time. Bethenny clearly isn't some tactical genius in this because if she was, this divorce would be long over. Believe me, I don't think Bethenny is so *perfect* an opponent that she can't conceivably made a mistake in not reading some paperwork. Frankly if it took this long for the issue with the trust to be presented, she probably had to have someone smarter than herself go over the paperwork and realize that there was a problem - there's no way she wouldn't have pulled the trigger on this sooner

[WireWrap]

She was dumb enough to marry Jason, so ....

 

Seriously though, I can see Bethenny (like many people) skimming a document and thinking she had the ability to really understand it, but some of the finer legal ramifications of what she was doing went over her head.  I would not have known that by creating some kind of general trust to hold an apartment meant that the trustee could live there indefinitely.  The exact language to spell that out may have been hidden or quite indecipherable.  

 

Of course, her lawyer would have told her what she was signing.  And that is why I am thinking she didn't have it reviewed ... she never would have signed it.  She was willing to not go through with her wedding if Jason wouldn't sign the pre-nup, after all.  So at most she did a half-assed job reading it, trusted Jason, and made a HUGE mistake. Fortunately Jason did too, lol.  I wonder how the judge views his credibility now? 

I do not, either she read it she had her lawyers read it, she protected herself every step of the way except this? No, a thousand times no.

 

I see it *every day* in my line of work. Let me count the ways. She was too busy and just signed it. She wanted to reassure Jason that she trusted him to do something without having her personal lawyers read it. In a moment of weakness, she signed it rather than start a fight over it. Smart business women do dumb things in marriage all the time. Bethenny clearly isn't some tactical genius in this because if she was, this divorce would be long over. Believe me, I don't think Bethenny is so *perfect* an opponent that she can't conceivably made a mistake in not reading some paperwork. Frankly if it took this long for the issue with the trust to be presented, she probably had to have someone smarter than herself go over the paperwork and realize that there was a problem - there's no way she wouldn't have pulled the trigger on this sooner

IMO, Bethenny had her lawyers read it and they told her it was no good , for whatever reason, but she said nothing and signed it anyway knowing it would never hold up in court. Before they/she even bought and renovated the apartment, their marriage was already rocky and both had mentioned divorce. Bethenny was not swayed by love into signing anything at that point. Look at how she designed the apartment to begin with, it was all about her and Bryn, nothing other than a TV was done for Jason, nothing! No spouse designs a couples home without also making it about/for the spouse as well. JS

[ZoloftBlob]

No spouse designs a couples home without also making it about/for the spouse as well. JS

 

You clearly don't participate in The Little Couple forum ;)

 

IMO, Bethenny had her lawyers read it and they told her it was no good , for whatever reason, but she said nothing and signed it anyway knowing it would never hold up in court.

 

Couple problems with this. The reality is that until today, this *has* held up in court and has led to Jason being able to live in the apartment because he's head of the trust for what... two years now? All while *knowing* it was no good because her lawyers told her. If her intent was to maintain control of the apartment, signing the documentation guarantees that instead of easily giving Jason the boot, she's had to pursue him legally and been forced to find somewhere else to live while doing it. If the entire point was to cut Jason out and not give him control of the apartment, why would she sign the paperwork at all?

 

I mean it doesn't logically make sense that rather than avoid the whole mess, Bethenny knowing signed the documents for the trust because rather than just not sign, she somehow preferred a years long legal battle that she was mostly losing. I don't see where there's any benefit to Bethenny in knowingly ignoring a lawyer telling her that she was essentially giving Jason access to keep the apartment by making him head of the trust because the paperwork *might* fall apart later. What was the benefit in it?

[Celia Rubenstein]

No spouse designs a couples home without also making it about/for the spouse as well. JS

 

Aha! More evidence this apartment was never marital property! 

 

I shall forward your post to Bethenny and her attorneys, WireWrap.

 

Couple problems with this.

 

Excellent post, ZoloftBob.   Common sense, logical .. excellent reasoning.  A+

Edited May 16, 2015 by Celia Rubenstein

[WireWrap]

You clearly don't participate in The Little Couple forum ;)

 

Couple problems with this. The reality is that until today, this *has* held up in court and has led to Jason being able to live in the apartment because he's head of the trust for what... two years now? All while *knowing* it was no good because her lawyers told her. If her intent was to maintain control of the apartment, signing the documentation guarantees that instead of easily giving Jason the boot, she's had to pursue him legally and been forced to find somewhere else to live while doing it. If the entire point was to cut Jason out and not give him control of the apartment, why would she sign the paperwork at all?

 

I mean it doesn't logically make sense that rather than avoid the whole mess, Bethenny knowing signed the documents for the trust because rather than just not sign, she somehow preferred a years long legal battle that she was mostly losing. I don't see where there's any benefit to Bethenny in knowingly ignoring a lawyer telling her that she was essentially giving Jason access to keep the apartment by making him head of the trust because the paperwork *might* fall apart later. What was the benefit in it?

 IMO, Jason would not believe her if/when she told him and so she let the Judge do it. Obviously, Jason thought he was in the right and did nothing illegal/shady or he would not have fought it. It goes both ways IMO. 

Aha! More evidence this apartment was never marital property! 

 

I shall forward your post to Bethenny and her attorneys, WireWrap.

 

 

Excellent post, ZoloftBob.   Common sense, logical .. excellent reasoning.  A+

But, then it shows she entered into this "trust" knowing she would never honor it to begin with.

[Celia Rubenstein]

Jason thought he was in the right and did nothing illegal/shady or he would not have fought it.

 

You aren't really suggesting that people only fight things when they are innocent, are you ?  

 

Using that reasoning, the Giudices are fine upstanding taxpaying citizens. 

 

 

Jason would not believe her if/when she told him and so she let the Judge do it.

 

 

I am not an expert, but I believe there are a number of relief actions/motions Bethenny could have brought in order to obtain an expedited ruling and get Jason out of the apartment if she had known all along she had the ability to do so.  

 

But, then it shows she entered into this "trust" knowing she would never honor it to begin with.

 

I am not sure what you mean.  Did you think I was serious when I said Bethenny's design ideas were actually evidence ... cuz' that was a joke.  Sorry, I was just trying to introduce a little levity into the proceedings. 

Edited May 16, 2015 by Celia Rubenstein

[WireWrap]

 

I am not sure what you mean.  Did you think I was serious when I said Bethenny's design ideas were actually evidence ... cuz' that was a joke.  Sorry, I was just trying to introduce a little levity into the proceedings. 

And I was joking as well!

[ZoloftBlob]

Jason would not believe her if/when she told him and so she let the Judge do it. Obviously, Jason thought he was in the right and did nothing illegal/shady or he would not have fought it. It goes both ways IMO.

 

Well, again, a few problems. Whether Bethenny *knew* the trust was problematic or didn't - Jason set up the trust in a shady manner and appears to have used the trust to bypass the prenup he knowingly signed. That his mom notarized his plan just adds to how shady the trust now looks (and makes Mama Hoppy look less simple and sweet as well - yes there were marriage problems as the apartment was being built and funny how Jason was arranging receiving a bigger piece of the pie than to what he originally agreed to in the prenup) But I agree, being shady isn't illegal. It does indicate though, that Jason had ulterior motives in establishing himself as head of the trust - he was hardly acting as pure as the driven snow, he was manipulating Bethenny into giving him access to something he'd already agreed to not ask for. Whether Bethenny knew he was being shady in getting himself assigned as head of the trust or didn't know - it doesn't change the fact that Jason's actions indicate he was proactively seeking access to more than what he agreed to. You said it yourself, the marriage was already troubled... Jason was establishing a safety net at Bethenny's expense.

 

And I still don't understand - especially in light of the years long battle to remove Jason from the apartment - how it *benefits* Bethenny to know that the trust could be thrown out but wait years to point it out and let Jason live in the apartment when she knew all along that the trust wasn't established properly. I mean, to be honest, it seems like Bethenny is bleeding money at this point because of court costs. What did knowing this and waiting to reveal it after years gain her? I still don't understand what it gained her to even sign this paperwork. Why would she knowingly put herself in the position of letting Jason control her apartment? Again - the marriage was already souring so why sign off on something she was, in theory, expressly warned by her lawyers would lead her to years of fighting?

Edited May 16, 2015 by ZoloftBlob

[Celia Rubenstein]

And I was joking as well!

i'm sorry, I missed it.  I've been reading the Duggar thread and it has damaged my sense of humor.  Those people are so fucking serious.

 

I wonder if those extra scenes that are being shot (mentioned in the media thread, I believe) have anything to do with this development in Bethenny's case.  I know they are going back to do extra shots with Luann and Carole, probably to capitalize on the recent drama! drama! drama!  There was the suggestion that they were going back to shoot some softer scenes for Bethenny because  god forbid she start coming across like Jill Zarin. Andy Cohen's eyes were momentarily knocked straight when someone said that on his show.  But now I wonder if we are not going to be treated to some joyous revelation about her maybe getting her apartment back.  Within the constraints of the gag order ... there is still a gag order, correct? 

Edited May 16, 2015 by Celia Rubenstein

[WireWrap]

i'm sorry, I missed it.  I've been reading the Duggar thread and it has damaged my sense of humor.  Those people are so fucking serious.

 

I wonder if those extra scenes that are being shot (mentioned in the media thread, I believe) have anything to do with this development in Bethenny's case.  I know they are going back to do extra shots with Luann and Carole, probably to capitalize on the recent drama! drama! drama!  There was the suggestion that they were going back to shoot some softer scenes for Bethenny because  god forbid she start coming across like Jill Zarin. Andy Cohen's eyes were momentarily knocked straight when someone said that on his show.  But now I wonder if we are not going to be treated to some joyous revelation about her maybe getting her apartment back.  Within the constraints of the gag order ... there is still a gag order, correct? 

Gag order? That gag order is as effective as someone raising the Titanic and it sailing away as is. LOL

 

  I am sure Andy and Bethenny/JB hit the panic button after that comment. JillZ had to be rolling on the floor in laughter seeing/hearing that one and you know she was watching WWHL that night! LOL I am sure they are filming again to redeem Bethenny and to exploit or mend/end the fight between Carole/LuAnn. Bravo Reality TV, also knows as Andy's Twilight Zone!

[WireWrap]

Well, again, a few problems. Whether Bethenny *knew* the trust was problematic or didn't - Jason set up the trust in a shady manner and appears to have used the trust to bypass the prenup he knowingly signed. That his mom notarized his plan just adds to how shady the trust now looks (and makes Mama Hoppy look less simple and sweet as well - yes there were marriage problems as the apartment was being built and funny how Jason was arranging receiving a bigger piece of the pie than to what he originally agreed to in the prenup) But I agree, being shady isn't illegal. It does indicate though, that Jason had ulterior motives in establishing himself as head of the trust - he was hardly acting as pure as the driven snow, he was manipulating Bethenny into giving him access to something he'd already agreed to not ask for. Whether Bethenny knew he was being shady in getting himself assigned as head of the trust or didn't know - it doesn't change the fact that Jason's actions indicate he was proactively seeking access to more than what he agreed to. You said it yourself, the marriage was already troubled... Jason was establishing a safety net at Bethenny's expense.

 

And I still don't understand - especially in light of the years long battle to remove Jason from the apartment - how it *benefits* Bethenny to know that the trust could be thrown out but wait years to point it out and let Jason live in the apartment when she knew all along that the trust wasn't established properly. I mean, to be honest, it seems like Bethenny is bleeding money at this point because of court costs. What did knowing this and waiting to reveal it after years gain her? I still don't understand what it gained her to even sign this paperwork. Why would she knowingly put herself in the position of letting Jason control her apartment? Again - the marriage was already souring so why sign off on something she was, in theory, expressly warned by her lawyers would lead her to years of fighting?

Either way. Jason would not have fought if he knowingly did something illegal/shady that could get not only himself but also his mother into legal trouble. And why did Bethenny place Jason as head of the trust when their marriage was falling apart, when she knew she never really wanted to marry him in the first place and they had spoken seriously of divorce a few times. It does not make sense either way. JMO

[ryebread]

If this is all true... then yes, it does put the "Oh gosh and golly, Jason's parents are ust lil ol piles of sweetness, they can't never ever be anything but loving to that evil whore who stole their sweet boy" view into a new light. Because really, if his mom did use her notary powers to help him screw over his wife then no, she's not that nice.

 

I agree.  But suddenly Radar Online is the bastion of truth?  I agree with what Celia R said upthread - that if we wait a few days that this will either develop into something or absolutely nothing.  (or something like that.  I'm exhausted.  Too much pinot.  Oh, and avocado and roasted red pepper salad.  Thought of you, Chef Baby Greens. Boo ya.) 

[ZoloftBlob]

Either way. Jason would not have fought if he knowingly did something illegal/shady that could get not only himself but also his mother into legal trouble

 

Sorry, I easily admit I may be much more jaded than you, but I see people do amazingly stupid and yes, illegal things when they are pissed off and when money is involved. I don't see Jason as evil or some sort of horrible human being, but I also don't see him as saintly. Mostly, I might add, because he knowingly signed a prenup and has been doing everything in his power to get a piece of the pie despite it. I mean, it wasn't *Jason* who brought the irregularities in the trust now was it?

 

And why did Bethenny place Jason as head of the trust when their marriage was falling apart, when she knew she never really wanted to marry him in the first place and they had spoken seriously of divorce a few times

 

Why did Jason accept being head of the trust when their marriage was falling apart and he knew she never really wanted to marry him and had spoken to him seriously about divorce? This argument works both ways.

 

But suddenly Radar Online is the bastion of truth?

 

Be fair, Ryebread. I clearly said "if this is all true" and agree that Radar and the Inquisitar aren't great sources. My previous comments about the Hoppys (and I don't think they're bad people, I just think people can and will do out of character crazy things in divorce situations) routinely get shut down with how Bethenny always lies and that it's totally inconceivable that the Hoppys are anything other than the nicest people ever. If this is true, then I hope people reconsider the sainthood of Hoppys.

[Celia Rubenstein]

Jason would not have fought if he knowingly did something illegal/shady that could get not only himself but also his mother into legal trouble.

 

I just think he thought he was going to get away with it.  And he almost did.  He just let the paperwork stand until now and it was working for him.  He wasn't really "fighting" all that hard. 

 

But what we are seeing is that now that he has been found out - you are right - he has stopped fighting it.  Totally.  The court described some of the allegations about the stuff Jason did as going "unchallenged."  That is Jason and his lawyers being smart and not committing perjury while attempting to dispute there was this funny business with the trust.  So your argument in a way actually proves that Jason did stop fighting because he had done something wrong, but that only happened after he realized he wasn't going to get away with it.

 

Gag order? That gag order is as effective as someone raising the Titanic and it sailing away as is. LOL

 

I know, right.  That gag order has had more holes poked in it than a sieve. And every time I read something pro-Jason/trashing Bethenny,  I think it came from his side.  And when I read something pro-Bethenny/trashing Jason, I assume it came from hers.  

 

But I am talking about the gag order actually limiting the stuff Bethenny can say on the show, because that won't be an anonymous leak.  It would be on camera coming from her mouth.  She has talked about him living in her apartment on the show already, and it surprised me she even said that much on the air.   I am wondering if she is going to find some sly way of saying something about getting her apartment back that will reveal that Jason pulled some kind of trick and failed.  It  would be a very delicate operation, and I just hope she doesn't do something stupid to hurt her case.  It has to be tempting to rub this in Jason's face, lol.  Very hard to resist! 

 

But suddenly Radar Online is the bastion of truth

 

Radar Online sucks but they are supposedly quoting actual words out of the court's mouth, and it takes real balls to fabricate something like that.  They better not be lying or I will have to cancel my subscription ("lol")

Edited May 16, 2015 by Celia Rubenstein

[Rhetorica]

Well, well, well, the plot, like my gravy, thickens. I look forward to our sleuths' and legal eagles' postings.

[WireWrap]

 

Why did Jason accept being head of the trust when their marriage was falling apart and he knew she never really wanted to marry him and had spoken to him seriously about divorce? This argument works both ways.

 

I honestly think that Jason loved her and thought they would/could work it out. I do not believe he knew that Bethenny never loved him to begin with for a very long time and that had to cut deep, very deep, when he realized it. Who knows, Bethenny has now said that she did not love him and never wanted to marry him at all but I never saw Jason holding a gun to her head and she never looked like a reluctant bride. By then, the split, both were/are bitter people intent on hurting each other instead of focusing on Bryn. IMO though, Jason's "team" stopped with the nasty stories about Bethenny but Bethenny's "team" is still trying to punish Jason in the court of public opinion. (by "team" I mean friends/co-workers).  JMO 

Edited May 16, 2015 by WireWrap

[ZoloftBlob]

I never saw Jason holding a gun to her head and she never looked like a reluctant bride.

 

And I don't recall Jason being dragged in chains to the altar. Again, these arguments work both ways.

 

If Jason knew the marriage was on the rocks at the time the trust was being formed - his behavior in setting himself up as head of the trust does become more mercenary, he was preparing for the divorce. Am I willing to allow he wanted to work things out? Sure... but only if such possibilities are allowed for all the players in this - I'm getting the vibe that Jason *has* to be given the benefit of the doubt while Bethenny was absolutely aware of the trust issues and was absolutely plotting this all out so that these last two years were all due to her machinations.

 

I have yet to see any reasonable benefit Bethenny gained by *knowing* the trust was set up faulty, signing the paperwork anyway, and waiting *years* and wasting thousands of dollars in legal fees just to reveal this now. I don't see, if knowing that not allowing Jason to be head of the trust kept the beloved apartment in her hands, why she would sign off on the trust at all. I don't see what she gained or how she profited.

[WireWrap]

And I don't recall Jason being dragged in chains to the altar. Again, these arguments work both ways.

 

If Jason knew the marriage was on the rocks at the time the trust was being formed - his behavior in setting himself up as head of the trust does become more mercenary, he was preparing for the divorce. Am I willing to allow he wanted to work things out? Sure... but only if such possibilities are allowed for all the players in this - I'm getting the vibe that Jason *has* to be given the benefit of the doubt while Bethenny was absolutely aware of the trust issues and was absolutely plotting this all out so that these last two years were all due to her machinations.

 

I have yet to see any reasonable benefit Bethenny gained by *knowing* the trust was set up faulty, signing the paperwork anyway, and waiting *years* and wasting thousands of dollars in legal fees just to reveal this now. I don't see, if knowing that not allowing Jason to be head of the trust kept the beloved apartment in her hands, why she would sign off on the trust at all. I don't see what she gained or how she profited.

IMO, Jason did not realize that the marriage was in the crapper when the apartment was bought, I think he still wanted to make it work. I am going by Bethenny's own words, that she didn't love him, that she didn't really want to get married in the first place, I never heard him say that, imply that or anything close to that. So, Yes, IMO, he gets the benefit of doubt here because he has never said these things, only Bethenny has.

 

Ok, lets look at the trust another way. Why would Bethenny sign something, a legal document nonetheless, she did not read first? That makes no sense at all for a successful business woman that does not love her husband, never did and never wanted to marry him AND insisted on a prenup before they got married? Bethenny micromanages her business, all aspects of it but signs legal documents without reading them first, without her lawyers going over it with a fine tooth comb to make sure that she and Bryn are protected above all? Nope, not buying it, something smells here and although some odor may come from Jason's side but it stinks just as bad on Bethenny's side.  JMO

Edited May 16, 2015 by WireWrap

[Celia Rubenstein]

IMO though, Jason's "team" stopped with the nasty stories about Bethenny but Bethenny's "team" is still trying to punish Jason in the court of public opinion. (by "team" I mean friends/co-workers).  JMO

 

I just can't subscribe to the notion that Jason is any better behaved than Bethenny when it comes to leaks.  I am sure if Jason had the kind of damaging information on Bethenny such as came out against him today, it would have found its way into the gossip columns just like the story about him did.  I think that he has just not had the raw ammunition to use against her for a while.

 

But it would not surprise me if he ended up writing a book about her when this is all over.  I wonder if she made him sign some kind of non-disclosure thing as part of their pre-nup.  I hope for her sake she did, because he strikes me as totally smarmy enough to write a tell-all. 

 

ETA:  

Ok, lets look at the trust another way. Why would Bethenny sign something, a legal document nonetheless, she did not read first? That makes no sense at all for a successful business woman that does not love her husband, never did and never wanted to marry him AND insisted on a prenup before they got married? Bethenny micromanages her business, all aspects of it but signs legal documents without reading them first, without her lawyers going over it with a fine tooth comb to make sure that she and Bryn are protected above all? Nope, not buying it,

 

So if I understand your point correctly, what you are saying is you believe Bethenny read the document, understood that it meant Jason could live in the apartment until she chose to reveal the document was a fraud and of no effect, so she went ahead and signed it, right? 

 

So how come when she split up with Jason she put herself through hell living in a pressure cooker situation, eventually gave up and move out, spent a fortune on hotels and new apartment, accumulated a ton of legal bills fighting about it ... then suddenly she decided to play this ace she had up her sleeve the whole time to kick him out? 

 

Why didn't she do it a long time ago, like when they first split up?  What was in it for her to wait so long? 

Edited May 16, 2015 by Celia Rubenstein

[WireWrap]

I just can't subscribe to the notion that Jason is any better behaved than Bethenny when it comes to leaks.  I am sure if Jason had the kind of damaging information on Bethenny such as came out against him today, it would have found its way into the gossip columns just like the story about him did.  I think that he has just not had the raw ammunition to use against her for a while.

 

But it would not surprise me if he ended up writing a book about her when this is all over.  I wonder if she made him sign some kind of non-disclosure thing as part of their pre-nup.  I hope for her sake she did, because he strikes me as totally smarmy enough to write a tell-all. 

 

ETA:  

 

So if I understand your point correctly, what you are saying is you believe Bethenny read the document, understood that it meant Jason could live in her dream apartment until she chose to reveal the document was a fraud and of no effect, so she went ahead and signed it, right? 

 

So how come when she split up with Jason she put herself through hell living in a pressure cooker situation, eventually gave up and move out, spent a fortune on hotels and new apartment, accumulated a ton of legal bills fighting about it ... then suddenly she decided to play this ace she had up her sleeve to kick him out? 

 

Why didn't she do it a long time ago, like when they first split up?  What was in it for her to wait so long? 

I have no idea why she has done anything, from getting married to a man she admits she did not love nor want to marry to signing something without reading it first and or having her lawyers check it out first. That does not sound like Bethenny, signing something without understanding it first, IMO she is far to smart and protective over her wealth and has been since day 1 with Jason, hence the prenup. There is no other explanation.

Something does not add up here, not at all IMO and that Bethenny has had the benefit of good, if not top shelf, legal advice it makes me question her actions and most especially her reasons/motives.

[Petunia13]

Family members can notarize for other family members.

[ZoloftBlob]

But its not an unreasonable question - you're stating Bethenny knew the trust was bad, that she is too brilliant and perfect a businesswoman to have made any mistake, that this is all planned. So she *ignored* her lawyers telling her not to make Jason head of the trust, and signed the paperwork, She then spent a ton of money fighting with Jason legally over the apartment, had to spend more money on a different place while fighting with him, all while intentionally sitting on the paperwork that will force him out of the house? Because she's too smart a businessperson.

 

I know the answer that will come back is "I don't know why Bethenny does anything but she's clearly an utter genius masterminds completely behind this and poor Jason is the victim in this new trust situation" but at the end of the day, the idea that Bethenny engaged in a conspiracy of one to willfully ignore legal advice, and then intentionally sit on the very documentation that would give her the apartment all while throwing dollars into the wind fighting a legal battle she never had to engage in if she was perfectly aware of what she was signing doesn't make any sense. I mean, if she never signed off on the trust, she wouldn't be dealing with Jason in the apartment. I don't see any way in which knowing signing the paper work works to her advantage.

 

But then, I don't think Bethenny is incapable of making the mistake of signing something without reading it. I also don't think Jason was incapable of having an ulterior motive.  In order to buy into the theory that Bethenny is the genius mastermind who knew, I need to know how she benefitted from this when if she had simply not signed the paperwork, Jason would have had no legal claim to the apartment at all.

 

eta - I'm asking what logical sense it makes for Bethenny to know the trust was bad, be the awesome business woman with all the lawyers who always reads her paperwork, knowingly sign the paperwork she completely understood, and then never raise the point about the trust until years and thousands of dollars later. Occam's Razor and all that - it makes more logical sense that she screwed up signing the paperwork and one of her divorce lawyers later dug into the paperwork.

Edited May 16, 2015 by ZoloftBlob

[zoeysmom]

I have no idea why she has done anything, from getting married to a man she admits she did not love nor want to marry to signing something without reading it first and or having her lawyers check it out first. That does not sound like Bethenny, signing something without understanding it first, IMO she is far to smart and protective over her wealth and has been since day 1 with Jason, hence the prenup. There is no other explanation.

Something does not add up here, not at all IMO and that Bethenny has had the benefit of good, if not top shelf, legal advice it makes me question her actions and most especially her reasons/motives.

Over the years I began to find Bethenny less and less real but I do not think she or Jason were all that reluctant about getting married.  Bethenny had had her Skinny Girl product out there for awhile and it was doing okay.  In watching Bethenny over the years I always feel like she doesn't have an off switch.

 

Replying to a previous post:

As to Jason's "side" getting their story out IIRC Jason has had zip to say about the divorce. He has done no interviews-made no accusations.  As far as Jason's camp-who are these people who proclaim to have insight?  To me it sounds like the same old people from Radar that just sit around and make things up and use the term sources. I think Jason thinks first of his daughter's well being and as far as his public persona he lets that take a back seat.   I found this recent tidbit.  http://divorce.usattorneys.com/judge-schedules-emergency-hearing-divorce-case-bethenny-frankel-jason-hoppy/  Is the author saying Bethenny left Bryn in the care of an assistant or that Bethenny included an assistant during her custodial periods at the beach.  I don't know what "took the help of" means. 

 

So if Bethenny is well on the way of recovering her apartment she shared with Jason and Bryn-why would she send a moving crew over just five days ago to remove her belongings?  Sorry to hear the child was upset. My guess is Bethenny wants to put the house on the market and force Jason to move on. At this point I think Bethenny needs to sit down with a professional-who will not go on TV or co-write a book with her, and examine why she wants to so very publicly cause people pain.  Revenge is not a good public image.  Bethenny can't go backwards and withdraw her statements about Jason and his parents.  She certainly waged war against her three parents and now continues that battles even though she has had zero contact with her mother for 15 years.  Why all the bitterness?

 

If Bethenny really made over 100 million give Jason 10 million and move on and hope he is a great father to her precious daughter throughout her life.  Her Skinny Girl brand is a money making machine.  Granted she worked for it and for four years Jason was a big part of her life.  Lord knows he had to live with the entire Bethenny Frankel corporation underfoot.  If the roles were reversed and it was a man who struck it rich with seemingly unlimited potential future earnings I think public opinion would be different.  The worst that could then be said about Bethenny  is she was an incredibly generous person in her divorce to make her daughter's time with her father comfortable. 

Edited May 16, 2015 by zoeysmom

[WireWrap]

 

eta - I'm asking what logical sense it makes for Bethenny to know the trust was bad, be the awesome business woman with all the lawyers who always reads her paperwork, knowingly sign the paperwork she completely understood, and then never raise the point about the trust until years and thousands of dollars later. Occam's Razor and all that - it makes more logical sense that she screwed up signing the paperwork and one of her divorce lawyers later dug into the paperwork.

1 reason, she put all her effort into the custody battle first, that was her priority, not the apartment. Then with the custody battle over, she could concentrate on the apartment/property.

[QuinnM]

The big furniture moving brouhaha was two months ago. And since it painted B in such a negative light it would be Hadon that leaked it. So he's not lily white in this ex basing stuff. I think for a two year marriage to someone making 3.5 million a year that 10 million is excessive and greedy. I say that regardless of the sex of the spouse.

The 3,5 is calculation based on the percentage split between B and J for child support.

[ZoloftBlob]

reason, she put all her effort into the custody battle first, that was her priority, not the apartment. Then with the custody battle over, she could concentrate on the apartment/property.

 

But her efforts to get Jason out of the apartment run concurrent with the custody and divorce cases. Why spend all the money on the legal fight if she's always known about the trump card? I mean, you're suggesting she just moved out of the apartment and was biding her time when in fact the apartment has been a lengthy point of contention and she has been actively seeking to get him ousted from the get go. This has been an ongoing battle, not a "I'll wait until custody is decided" sort of thing.

[Mrs peel]

Here it is straight from the horse's mouth parties can waive child support in the State of New York.  http://www.divorcenet.com/states/new_york/nyfaq01  It also explains how the money is from one parent to the other parent.  It is not a direct payment for the child.

 

Camille doesn't get child support.  Literally  millions of people with joint custody do not receive child support. Sometimes they get the family home that has tons of equity in it, sometimes the other parent allows an out of state move for the other parent and child and is relieved of support obligations.   They have separation and marital termination agreements that provide for no child support.  If there is a substantial change of circumstances Oneida parent becomes disabled, loses their job or does not have the child or children for the agreed period of time then they can go back to Court or come up with a new agreement.  Courts WANT people to come to terms with custody and support.  Most dissolutions are settled between the parties.  That is why both parties should have attorneys. 

 

There is a world of difference between waiving child support and one parent allowing the other parent to not be financially responsible for a child-ever.  And that exception is if the child becomes a ward of the state. 

 

My point is this if you a whole bunch of money and want a divorce don't ask for child support.  The right to child support is preserved throughout the minority of the child if there is a change of circumstances.  In Bethenny case it came off as punitive and mean spirited.  She and Bryn didn't need money or health insurance from Jason so don't ask for it.  She pays PR firms and attorneys a lot of money to represent her-use common sense.

You seem to be mis-reading that FAQ. The section at the bottom about "waiving" child support is actually about having a separate agreement including child support, which may not be in accordance with the rather complicated child support calculations in the NY law And note the Court still needs to approve the terms. I practiced family law for many years, though not in NY. You cannot waive child support. Just can't. Can you not set an amount, or reserve the issue, usually because the non-custodial parent has no job? Sure. Can you effectively use that to not have the other parent ever pay support, because you never go back to court to ask support be set? Sure. But that is not an actual waiver.

camille Is likely getting something, though for some people it is termed I allocated child support and alimony/maintenance. Maybe she has that, and people interpret it as no child support. Or, as his support, Kelsey is paying bills directly rather than giving Camille a check each month,. Or he set up a separate trust for the children's expenses, which he cannot raid for other purposes. That is still child support.

For people with joint custody, especially if the child's time is split evenly, things are often different. Because then each parent is providing half the support already. But you can be sure if the child is in private school or has expensive hobbies, those costs and health insurance are being parceled out between the parents in some way that is based at least in part on the respective incomes.

[WireWrap]

But her efforts to get Jason out of the apartment run concurrent with the custody and divorce cases. Why spend all the money on the legal fight if she's always known about the trump card? I mean, you're suggesting she just moved out of the apartment and was biding her time when in fact the apartment has been a lengthy point of contention and she has been actively seeking to get him ousted from the get go. This has been an ongoing battle, not a "I'll wait until custody is decided" sort of thing.

IMO, none of this makes sense. Be it why she ever got married in the first place to someone she did not love or want to marry, or why she signed something she did not understand/read. Bethenny is not someone that  leads with her heart (especially when she does not love that person), she uses her brain and she protects her assets, always. Something integral to this is still missing and until we know what that is,  all we are doing is nothing more than speculating about what/where they went wrong and Yes, I do mean both Bethenny and Jason. It could be as simple as they both thought they were doing things the correct/legal/moral way but failing miserably at it, or they both had nefarious reasons/motives.

[FozzyBear]

I'm not sure i ever interpreted the situation as Bethanny knowingly married someone she didn't love and didn't want to spend her life with. I always thought it was more along the lines of looking back and realizing she ignored some warning signs in their relationship. That happens. You feel something is maybe not right, but you want it to be right so badly that you ignore your gut. I think both Jason and Bethanny did that because they wanted to be in love with each-other. I think they both did many things wrong, but I do think they both went into the marriage with more or less good intentions.

[Mrs peel]

I'm not sure i ever interpreted the situation as Bethanny knowingly married someone she didn't love and didn't want to spend her life with. I always thought it was more along the lines of looking back and realizing she ignored some warning signs in their relationship. That happens. You feel something is maybe not right, but you want it to be right so badly that you ignore your gut. I think both Jason and Bethanny did that because they wanted to be in love with each-other. I think they both did many things wrong, but I do think they both went into the marriage with more or less good intentions.

I can buy into that. I also look at it as both were so focused on B being pregnant and them wanting to be a "family" that they didn't stop to consider whether they were well matched in the first place. I didn't watch much of Bethenny Ever After so I don't know what either may have said during that.

[ZoloftBlob]

Fozzybear  - I agree with you - I think they thought they were in love and were also having a child and Bethenny was very focused on "achieving the dream" of the husband and child and Jason may have thought that as well.

 

Bethenny is not someone that  leads with her heart (especially when she does not love that person), she uses her brain and she protects her assets, always

 

 

Then why would she do something that until just very recently has caused her to lose her home and thousands of dollars? She really doesn't even have the apartment back and this will still cost her even more money. I mean, personally, I don't perceive Bethenny the way you do, as a super mastermind genius. This is a case were the obvious answer seems pretty plausible - namely that Bethenny screwed up and signed the paperwork without reading it. It doesn't even make her look good to admit that. She's publically admitted that she as an otherwise savvy business woman made a fundamental mistake in trusting her husband. So not only is she losing thousands of dollars, and access to her home, in order to regain the home, she has to portray herself as someone who makes errors. This master genius plan of hers to somehow do something so far has cost her a lot of money, public humiliation and her home. I don't see the logical end game for her to have knowingly signed off on Jason being the head of the trust. Everything points to Bethenny screwed up, not Bethenny has a master plan that makes no sense to us regular folk but is absolutely happening all due to Bethenny's evil machinations.

 

The logical answer is that Bethenny screwed up. Frankly I don't consider her so perfect that its inconceivable that she could screw up, far from it. I mean, look at her talk show. Bethenny is capable of making mistakes..

 

And I am still not seeing any benefit to Bethenny in knowingly allowing Jason to be the head of the trust and waiting to reveal that the trust was set up incorrectly for years. She's out a house and a ton of money - what is the end game for her? I don't even see *illogical* reasons for her to sit on this - frankly she's been the one who looks kinda bad in the house dispute and she's the one who needed the good press that she hasn't been getting.

Edited May 16, 2015 by ZoloftBlob

[zoeysmom]

The big furniture moving brouhaha was two months ago. And since it painted B in such a negative light it would be Hadon that leaked it. So he's not lily white in this ex basing stuff. I think for a two year marriage to someone making 3.5 million a year that 10 million is excessive and greedy. I say that regardless of the sex of the spouse.

The 3,5 is calculation based on the percentage split between B and J for child support.

I got the impression it was from a court filing and most Order to Show Cause hearings you have to state what the issue is.  I don't necessarily believe that every Court filing by Jason is in lieu of a press conference or interview.

 

I am no arguing there is an equity in the 10 million dollar number.  Sometimes it is better all the way round to just give in and move forward.   Maybe he will take 8 million who knows.   I am not quite certain where the 3.5 million a year comes from is that Bethenny's present annual salary?  Bethenny at one time said the taxes on what she made were over 8 million so I am thinking she made a lot of money of the sale Of SKM and  she was married to Jason at the time.  

[Wendy]

Bethenny doesn't have 100M dollars in her bank account, so the notion that she should give Jason just merely 10M and save herself all the headache is ridiculous IMO

Bethenny sold her cocktail line for a "potential 100M" , meaning that in the 7 years of the contract life , there is the potential for the sale to accumulate that amount, the only amount that has been verified is 64M, those 64 are not Bethenny's alone, Bethenny had a partner , Mr. David Kanbar, the spirit's maverick who made this whole deal even possible, he was Bethenny's parter and he got 50% of that money. He didn't have the emotional attachment that Bethenny had with the cocktail line so he took his half and moved to other ventures, Bethenny got the other half , 32M but after paying her team of negotiators, lawyers, taxes, etc, etc, she probably ended up with 25M of that money, she could make more money out of the deal but it is based on product sales so probably not huge bonus after the first year. Add maybe a couple of millions for all her other ventures so that is the reason why many places estimate Bethenny's whole network at around 25M

Jason even with a prenup thinks he should be entitled to 10M out of those 25? For what? He signed a prenup that protected any money made from the cocktail sale and IMO Bethenny has been more than generous in her offers, 3M first and then 7M , jason should have take the offer, vacate the apartment he knows doesn't belong to him and keep it as friendly as possible. Instead he , yes he by hiring a financial auditor, has turned this divorce into a dragging nightmare and now more of his shady deals are coming to light and he (just my wishful thinking) might end up losing most of it.

The fact that he decided to use his mother as a notary just highlights to me that Jason was preparing himself for the divorce , there are notaries on every corner of NYC, why did it have to be his mom? Jason has been about the monetary gain since the get go and Leroux , I am glad you write that post that I absolutely agree with, Jason had a plan in mind and he rellied and maybe still rellied on the fact that Bethenny is a damaged person who wanted to keep peace and protect her daughter, and her image to go after every red cent of money he could get his hands on. Bethenny should think about her daughter and give him what he wants? What about Jason? Shouldn't he think about his daughter before he tries to defraud Bryn's mother? I guess as long as Saint Jason commits actions that a judge has now dismissed as probably fraudulent we have to give him the benefit of the doubt and try to find any and every explanation for his behavior but when it comes to Bethenny she is an evil mastermind because she doesn't allow Jason to take her to the cleaners?

Those double standards sound crazy to me. If the judge would have pass the same kind of ruling but against Bethenny, the viewers would be asking for her head on a platter, prosecution and jail time. Unbelievable.

Edited May 16, 2015 by Wendy