S06.E02: Yellow Ledbetter

[Like A Phoenix]

So here's what I don't understand - in S1, Damon was able to compel Stefan because Stefan was still on his bunny diet. If Elena would go on bunny blood for a few days, she could have had Caroline compel her.

 

I guess Alaric's easier to guilt-trip.

 

I kind of liked that in episode one, Elena and Alaric were having their own separate problems, but had a shared grief for Damon. Alaric's pretty much on his own on that one, now.

 

Forgot to mention in my above post - Tripp turning up the volume and smiling away in his murder-wagon was hilarious.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

So that kitchen is in the Salvatore mansion? Why have we never seen it before the 90s flashbacks? It's awesome!

I guess it's a good thing Elena burned all of her journals so she won't be able to read, you know, the actual history of her relationship with Damon which would contradict her new "memories."

I was theorizing that Grams put Bonnie in a Groundhog Day type situation where she had to learn her lesson before she could rest in peace. Then I thought maybe Gram had left a clue for her in the crossword puzzle or that May 10th was a really significant day in Mystic Falls or Bonnie's life or something. But apparently there is a ghost who can imitate Bonnie's handwriting flawlessly. This poor ghost is probably sick of listening to Bonnie and Damon argue for the same shit for four months straight. I am surprised the ghost didn't write "STFU!" in the crossword puzzle. If the ghost can manipulate objects enough to write with a pen, why not do other things to make him or herself known? Like gag both of them when they have the same argument for the 1000th time?

[Chewy101]

Damon stans have to be some of the most myopic people in TV land. He kills an innocent person? His heart was broken! What was he supposed to do, deal with it like someone who's lived for over a century? But Stefan made Caroline cry so he deserves to have his girlfriend killed and his neck snapped.

Too true, too true!

 

I just want Stefan to not crap on Caroline. I love their friendship.

[Chewy101]

So here's what I don't understand - in S1, Damon was able to compel Stefan because Stefan was still on his bunny diet. If Elena would go on bunny blood for a few days, she could have had Caroline compel her.

 

 

But Elena is in too much PAIN to go on a bunny diet. Girl has become quite the emotional wimp since she grew fangs. Easier to just make Alaric, who despises his own vampirism, to be her vampire bitch than to suffer even a bit more.

 

She acts like she is the first person to know and lose love. And she didn't even fall for a decent human being. Ugh ugh ugh.

 

Her line about missing Damon "makes her dangerous" is crap. She is only dangerous on the herbs she was taking. Deal with your pain, you little brat. Sober up and take a lesson from Matt and Caroline on how to feel your feelings like a sane person.

 

I have zero sympathy left for the girl I was rooting for for the first three seasons. Damon at least has charm and wit to make him an easier pill to swallow. Elena is just unbearable across the board.

Edited October 10, 2014 by Chewy101

[Like A Phoenix]

She acts like she is the first person to know and lose love. And she didn't even fall for a decent human being. Ugh ugh ugh.

 

 

In Elena's mind, her needs are always the greatest, and her feelings are always the strongest. It irritates how she feels she has to have her memories compelled away because her love was so great, but she gives Jeremy a hard time about how he mourns for Bonnie. Who's to say that what he felt for Bonnie wasn't equal to what she did for Damon? She's literally surrounded by people who have lost those close to them - Jeremy has lost his lover, Stefan has lost his brother, Caroline and Alaric have lost their BFFs, everyone has been affected in one way or another - but her feelings are more 'important' in her own mind. Would she advise Jeremy to have his memories compelled away? Doubt it.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

But it's because she feels so much more than everyone else! Her pain is more painful than anyone else's!

[Chewy101]

But it's because she feels so much more than everyone else! Her pain is more painful than anyone else's!

 

 

And my nausea is more nauseous than anyone else's!

; )

[Cattitude]

I was theorizing that Grams put Bonnie in a Groundhog Day type situation where she had to learn her lesson before she could rest in peace. Then I thought maybe Gram had left a clue for her in the crossword puzzle or that May 10th was a really significant day in Mystic Falls or Bonnie's life or something. 

 

I think the significance of the day has to do with the eclipse. If I had to bet I'd bet that eclipse has something to do with bring them back to real time.

[Amelie06]

 

I don't get how Stefan's being a dick though? In his mind, his brother is dead and he wants to move on with his life. It's not his fault everyone else wants to hang on. And then Enzo [that guy] killed Stefan's [WOC] girlfriend because [pretty blonde] Caroline was crying over him? The fuck?! I totally understand why this show is pulling such low ratings now. The audacity of some of these characters...and it goes on unchecked.

I agree with this completely! Enzo is a racist. (Not really, but I now suspect that they included the scene of him hooking up with that black witch to bolster his not-racist status before murdering that other WOC.) Anyway, who da fuck is Enzo and why is he in this? I stop watching for one season and some dude shows up and is all up in the mix. All the sudden he has some kind of epic love for Damon. If he and Damon are so tight, how come I don't know who he is?

 

This episode irked me. Everyone was too judgmental with Stefan. Maybe he could do more, but are Damon and Bonnie going to be more or less dead by a delay? Everyone feels emboldened to unload on Stefan because he isn't living up to their ideals of grief. They all must love Damon more. This is insane. I kept waiting for Stefan to shut them down by just shouting, "He's my fucking brother! I've known him longer and better than any of you assholes! Do any of you remember what Damon was like when he was 12?" He didn't do it. Somehow, everyone seems to think their grief is greater just because they all decided to wallow in it. I hate that.

 

I'm kind of disappointed in the direction of the Bonnie/Damon story.  You can't just throw out "Groundhog Day" and not do more with the concept. Because it is just Bonnie and Damon sitting around, the Groundhog Day-ness is almost completely ameliorated.  They just keep seeing the same eclipse? That is not worthy of "Groundhog Day"! I enjoy the 90s shout-outs. I don't enjoy watching two people hate-eating their dinners. I hope the Crossword Ghost is more interesting than the crap I saw in this episode.

 

This show is dangerously close to losing me again. Self-righteous people prattling on is not entertainment! And why is Sheriff Carter acting all creepy? That isn't right.

 

Fuck Elena. I fast forwarded past all of her scenes.

[Shanna]

I think the significance of the day has to do with the eclipse. If I had to bet I'd bet that eclipse has something to do with bring them back to real time.

I thought the same thing, but I also wondered if something else happens that day. I kept thinking someone was maybe born but that would make them what ten? So it wouldn't make sense for any of our crew.

[truthaboutluv]

Anyway, who da fuck is Enzo and why is he in this? I stop watching for one season and some dude shows up and is all up in the mix. All the sudden he has some kind of epic love for Damon. If he and Damon are so tight, how come I don't know who he is?

 

 

THANK YOU!!! This is all I've been saying since last season. Some random Johnny Come Lately shows up and we're asked to buy that he and Damon share some super epic BFF-ness. What the hell ever and you know whatever, I could simply ignore his so called epic bromance with Damon but it's that dude is suddenly so self-righteous and feels it is his place to tell Stefan about how he is grieving over his brother and his relationship with Caroline and all else. Like really as you said, that's what Stefan should have said "who the fuck are you...."

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I feel like they wanted Damon to have his own Lexi so they came up with Enzo, but it doesn't work as well because Enzo is too similar to Damon so ends up coming off as Damon 2.0.

[scarletregina]

I liked this episode a lot.

 

Stefan and Elena both have different ways of dealing with their grief.

 

Stefan knows he can't cope, so he has to cut all ties with anything that reminds him of Damon. If he tries to face Damon's death, he could go all ripper again. Caroline needs to recognize this and give him time to grieve. However, Stefan needs to recognize that Caroline is grieving too. He should have told her why he needed this time. I don't think she would be as hurt if he'd been honest. If she was hurt, then I'd refer her to Amelie06's post re: Stefan's grief.

 

As for Elena's grief, I don't think it's the loss of Damon that makes her dangerous, I think it's that she is yet again losing another pillar of stability. Note, I don't think Damon is a stable force in her life, but she saw him as that. She imagined, naively, that they would be together forever. She never wanted to be a vampire, so she clung to the idea of "true love" with Damon to make it okay. That wasn't a good idea, but it was how she dealt with what happened to her. 

 

Elena's had a lot of stuff happen to her. I often find her character petulant and self-centered, but girl doesn't have a lot of agency and she never has. The universe brought all of this shit (excluding the triangle of doom which was her choice) into her life. She's the doppelganger. Everyone she has loved has died (some have come back to life). She's had to face a level of grief that no one else in the group has had to face - which is really saying something. Everyone that she has lost died because of her, because someone wanted to send her a message or put something into motion that involved her. 

 

We saw what happened when Jeremy died. She completely lost it. She's not doing that over Damon, which is a good thing because it shows that the writers are willing to let someone else be more important to Elena than Damon. But still, it's the loss of someone she thought would be in her life for an eternity. Eventually, she'll crack and turn off her emotions again. That's what makes this a dangerous situation. And she's not alone in that. I'm sure the loss of loved ones is why a lot of vamps turn off their emotions.

 

As to when she fell in love with Damon, I'm not sure I buy it. It might be when she realized she *loved* Damon, but not when she fell *in love* with Damon. But whatever.

 

I love the Damon and Bonnie stuff. It's different from anything I expected. I do wonder, now that Elena's memories of her love for Damon are gone, if we're being set up for Bamon.

Edited October 11, 2014 by scarletregina

[Lady Calypso]

I thought the same thing, but I also wondered if something else happens that day. I kept thinking someone was maybe born but that would make them what ten? So it wouldn't make sense for any of our crew.

 

 

Actually, since the year they're stuck in is 1994. it would probably be one of our mains. I would have guessed Elena, since if we're sticking to real time, she'd be 20 and the right age (even though we should be in 2013, I'm pretty sure). But what makes me pause is the toys out on the Gilbert front porch for someone around the age of two or three, and the date May 10th. It's canon that Elena's birthday should be in June, apparently of 1992. Jeremy's birthday is supposedly October of 1993 but that's only going by Wikipedia. But I think it's more possible that it's not anyone's birthdays and it's just an important day for Damon, whatever happened in 1994, possibly in Mystic Falls. So, if it is anyone's birthday, I think Jeremy's would be the best bet, but again, what does that have to do with Damon (and Bonnie)? And why do I not particularly care all that much?

[KoBnR]

I thought the same thing, but I also wondered if something else happens that day. I kept thinking someone was maybe born but that would make them what ten? So it wouldn't make sense for any of our crew.

1994 / 2014 = 20 years.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I was initially perplexed by the toys on the porch because I forgot about the wonky timeline on this show so once I remembered that it's not 2014 in Mystic Falls and that Elena was two in 1994, it all made more sense.

[Shanna]

Oh my god I can't do math lol! Actually I'm just and in denial. Yes, 20 could be one of our people but I think Bonnie would know whose birthday it was so I'm still stumped.

excluding the triangle of doom which was her choice)

And even that was kind of Kats fault. It certain brought Stefan running, and later (also earlier) Damon. I feel for Elena when I think about it but I haven't enjoyed her lately and that's too bad because I used to.

[Ann Mack]

OMG where do I start with this episode. I am so over the whiny everyone do whatever you must to make sure that Elena is the center of everyone's universe crap. Its hard to watch a show when the main leading lady is the most annoying character in it. I for one did not like the whole "trip down memory lane" so she could pinpoint the exact moment she fell in love with Damon. This is some shit that Julie Plec pulled out of her ass and flung against the wall with the thought that it would be powerful and moving when in actuality for me it only smelt just like the shit it was. How often do we have to see her grieve uncontrollably to the point she can barely function.

 

Elena has got to be the weakest leading lady who cannot function without a man or is so involved in her own self and said love for that man to the point she can't go on living without someone erasing her memory of him. Lord knows I wished not only had Alaric erased Damon but any memory of Stefan as well. In my opinion she doesn't deserve either one. Each has supposedly been the love of her life, yet she falls in love (through heightened vampirism for Damon) with the brother of her current boyfriend at the time. Nothing about that ever screamed romantic to me but it did scream "yah nasty" Elena.

 

Now on with this episode and what I liked and didn't like and what just made no sense whatsoever.

Like 

 

Like - Bonnie and Damon and I hope they continue to explore this friendship. They interact well with each other and this could be comedy gold if handled correctly (which I fear it won't since these writers seem to be about as talented as the Glee writers and that should be enough said on that matter). 

Like - That they at least are giving Matt some lines but still no purpose. His line about Jeremy being "a good kid" had me rolling what is he about 2-3 years older than Jeremy nice try but a major fail.

Like - Damon dancing to "What A Man"

Like - mystery that someone else is there with Bonnie and Damon I love a good mystery. Don't screw it up writers.

Dislike

 

Dislike - That so far Alaric is being used merely as a prop to help contain an annoying ass Elena.

Dislike - All things Enzo. Why is he even relevant? Not buying that he and Damon are neck biting BFFs.

Dislike - Enzo and Caroline being preachy to Stefan. Maybe try some of that on Elena it would give her a purpose other than witchy enhanced seance's and crying.

Dislike - Jeremy, man really wishing this kid would have just stayed dead. He continues to serve no purpose other than to play the rebel teenager without a cause. The whole calling Bonnie to scream at her voicemail was beyond ridiculous. Oh an lets not forget him letting the creepy delinquent chill at Matt's place. Give him a purpose or finally kill him off once and for all.

No sense whatsoever

 

The new sheriff/deputy or whatever his role is. If you are living in a vampire, supernatural free zone why would you leave to go out capture (how the hell he captured 5 strong ass vampires single handed is something that needs to be explained) said vampires and then transport them back to Mystic Falls just so you can show the audience them screaming and burning to death as they enter that was just stupid and I guess designed to give him a purpose.

 

The purpose of the delinquent sleep around neck bitten girl that is with Jeremy. I know its only episode 2 but damn I'm over her already.

 

The need for Enzo to kill the woman that was with Stefan. That was stupid and again made no sense but was done for effect that what Enzo will destroy Stefan's life and keep him from moving on because for some reason he thinks he has the right to tell Stefan how to mourn, how to live his life, and when its okay for him to move on, again so stupid.

 

The overall writing is just horrible. If they don't do a 360 I don't believe many people will keep tuning in. With Grey's Anatomy as your competition you cannot be producing and showing anything other than your "A" game and so far Julie Plec and company haven't delivered or at least not for me!

 

The wardrobe I don't know who is working the women costumes this season but damn what the hell was Elena wearing as well as Caroline. Please fire them or have them get  in contact with whomever is doing Bonnie's cause they looked horrible.

 

Oh well I guess I will brace myself for the next episode and hope that some how it gets better. If not I have no problem leaving which I think right now this show needs all the viewers it can get.

Edited October 11, 2014 by Ann Mack

[methodwriter85]

My biggest fantasy is being stuck in the 90's as a full-grown adult instead of a 9-year old, so I'm digging the "Langolier" kind of story they've got going on. I really liked the touch of Bonnie wearing a flannel shirt around her waist and the big CD boombox.

I got confused by the timeline as well, because my first thought was, "Wait, would Bonnie have even been born by 1994? Are there going to be stuffed animals for her to take?"

[Aeryn13]

 

I agree with this completely! Enzo is a racist. (Not really, but I now suspect that they included the scene of him hooking up with that black witch to bolster his not-racist status before murdering that other WOC

 

His great lady-love was a POC and I definitely think he would have snapped the neck of Stefan`s current partner, no matter who it was. If Stefan had aquired a pet hamster, Enzo would have killed it.

 

 

Elena has got to be the weakest leading lady who cannot function without a man or is so involved in her own self and said love for that man to the point she can't go on living without someone erasing her memory of him.

 

Wiping the pain away is IMO Elena`s go-to-response. She had the same done to Jeremy after he fell apart following Vicky`s death so I`m not surprised she chose it for herself.

 

Also, there is no current supernatural crisis and Stefan isn`t available either. Seriously, when we met Elena, she was deeply grieving her parents and while all her remaining friends and family had good intentions, they didn`t make her feel better. Stefan showed up and voila, she perked up, they fell in love super-quickly, the end. Then when she became a vampire, she fell apart again. Everyone tried but noone made her feel better except Damon, So she was drawn to him. I know, I know, sire bond and all but Elena`s previous behaviour would have explained it already.

 

Now she is alone. No Salvatore in sight to cling to and no coping mechanism for her grief. But still, that mind wipe must have been the most cowardly thing I ever saw a main character on this show do. And I thought, it would be about easing Damon completely. As if he had never existed, this "pick and choose, I hate him now" is SUPER-contrived.

 

But actually, it was the fucking same instinct Stefan had had when Rebekah offered him to erase his love for Elena/Elena wholesale from his mind. He went for it. And I remember thinking "seriously? that would be so pathetic". Elena called him out on how pathetic it would be. But apparently only on the grounds of how she would still be around and would lose him as a follower afterwards.

 

That she did it herself now tells me they of all people shouldn`t date. Each needs a partner who would never do shit like that, like Caroline for Stefan maybe. 

[scarletregina]

While I am exhausted from the pervasive idea that a woman cannot survive without a man, both of the Salvatore brothers seem incapable of surviving without a woman in their lives. None of the lead characters are very good at independence. 

[truthaboutluv]

I don't really see that with Stefan who hasn't had a girlfriend since Elena. He had one random hookup with Rebecca and last season a hookup with Katherine but he's been pretty much single since Elena.  And since his trying to move on was so offensive to Enzo, the douche-nozzle murdered his girlfriend, we're likely looking at another season of him being alone. I honestly don't get the idea that Stefan cannot survive without a woman in his life.

 

Hell last season some posters were making jokes about whether or not the character was asexual because it was weird how he didn't seem to have any romance in his life for two seasons now. Much of Stefan's issues have not really been about Elena or even Katherine. Stefan's issues are his whole Ripper compulsions and trying to control it. If Stefan was so incapable of surviving without a woman in his life, he would have dated Caroline by now already because as much as I like Stefan,  I believe he willfully plays dumb about Caroline's feelings for him. No one is that clueless. 

Edited October 11, 2014 by truthaboutluv

[ParadoxLost]

I think the significance of the day has to do with the eclipse. If I had to bet I'd bet that eclipse has something to do with bring them back to real time.

 

I've convinced of the following.

 

There will be an eclipse coming in the present timeline that if they cast some kind of spell in the past and present when the eclipses align will bring Damon and Bonnie back.

 

Part of what is keeping Bonnie and Damon trapped is the barrier that keeps vampires out of Mystic Falls and they are doing this everyone gave up hope storyline just to reveal that Caroline has been unintentionally trying to save Damon and Bonnie this whole time.

 

Jeremy's new bed buddy / car thief is connected to something supernatural and is the conduit to communicating with Bonnie and Damon.  I'm undecided if she's Bonnie' unknown sister or Tripp Fell's daughter.

 

I think Jeremy filled out the crossword.  He did move into Damon's the night before.  I think they synced the timelines 20 yrs apart with the necklace scene but stopped telling us time progression in subtitles to keep it a mystery.  

 

There is some ability to hear and interact with objects and people that share the same space that they will initially attribute to haunting and eventually figure out is Damon and Bonnie.  I explain 'two months ago' as someone being in the house.  Maybe Tripp Fell was investigating vampires or someone was closing up the house and Bonnie heard them (or is imagining things because there was no sound).

 

That Elena has already been stripped of memories without multiple episodes of angsty rampage and self destruction and Jeremy is sleeping with someone else means that Damon and Bonnie are going to get out of the past very, very soon.

[wingster55]

So here's what I don't understand - in S1, Damon was able to compel Stefan because Stefan was still on his bunny diet. 

 

When did that happen? I don't think Damon can..only originals (and Alaric due to a spell)

[Cattitude]

When did that happen? I don't think Damon can..only originals (and Alaric due to a spell)

 

I think the poster got a little mixed up. Because Stefan was on the bunny diet HE couldn't use his complusion on humans b/c it wasn't strong enough and would fail or fall apart. When Jeremy witnessed Vickie's death and couldn't cope Elena wanted his memory compelled away and Stefan couldn't do it so Damon had to compel JEREMY.

Damon never compeled Stefan. Stefan couldn't compel Jeremy so Damon had to do it for him.

Edited October 11, 2014 by Cattitude

[La Tortuga]

A clip episode. That's what this was. A goddamned clip episode, and it's only the second episode of the season.

 

Did the creators do this in an attempt to explain to the viewers what's going on because they've created a storyline that doesn't make any sense? Or did they use up too much of their money on new sets?

[bettername2come]

I think the poster got a little mixed up. Because Stefan was on the bunny diet HE couldn't use his complusion on humans b/c it wasn't strong enough and would fail or fall apart. When Jeremy witnessed Vickie's death and couldn't cope Elena wanted his memory compelled away and Stefan couldn't do it so Damon had to compel JEREMY.

Damon never compeled Stefan. Stefan couldn't compel Jeremy so Damon had to do it for him.

But Damon did implant some kind of nightmare of Elena's murder into Stefan's head. Then that went the way of the crow and the fog and was never seen again.

[scarynikki12]

Since it's Elena's sophomore year that means she's 20 and it's only been a few years since the pilot. It was 2009 when the show started so it's 2012 currently. It's 20 years ago from our time but 18 from theirs. However, it IS 20 years since Elena's, Caroline's, Matt's, Tyler's, and Bonnie's births so that could play into it.

[Anela]

I missed Ivy being killed. This is one of the things that I just can't take: the people getting their necks snapped, as a vampire has a tantrum. Or they become a snack.

At the moment, I'm rooting for Tripp. I think maybe I'm just too old for CW shows. I was watching something called Reign, and am having trouble thinking that I'm supposed to root for

a King and his new mistress, just because the CW has decided that it's so hot and romantic.

Edited October 12, 2014 by Anela

[ParadoxLost]

Since it's Elena's sophomore year that means she's 20 and it's only been a few years since the pilot. It was 2009 when the show started so it's 2012 currently. It's 20 years ago from our time but 18 from theirs. However, it IS 20 years since Elena's, Caroline's, Matt's, Tyler's, and Bonnie's births so that could play into it.

 

I think 20 yrs ago is nothing more than them being cute with the episode titles.  Yellow Ledbetter is the B side to Jeremy (Pearl Jam).  From there they picked a date, put Eddie Vedder in the crossword and named all the titles after songs from 1994.

[TigerLynx]

I thought maybe Grams sent Bonnie back along her previous time line so that when Bonnie died, traveling Bonnie could take over from there, however, the spell ending before it was supposed to, and Damon being along for the ride screwed that up.

 

I understand Stefan giving up.  They've been here so many times, and Damon did tell Stefan to stop saving him because every time he did, they ended up in a worse situation.  I didn't like Stefan not staying in contact with Caroline because I like their friendship.

[miss-vanilla]

THANK YOU!!! This is all I've been saying since last season. Some random Johnny Come Lately shows up and we're asked to buy that he and Damon share some super epic BFF-ness. What the hell ever and you know whatever, I could simply ignore his so called epic bromance with Damon but it's that dude is suddenly so self-righteous and feels it is his place to tell Stefan about how he is grieving over his brother and his relationship with Caroline and all else. Like really as you said, that's what Stefan should have said "who the fuck are you...."

I will tell you who Enzo is. He is the one who was locked in a cell for 5 years with Damon, he is the one who saw how Damon hoped for Stefan to come and find and rescue him from that hell. He is the one who saw how Damon was hurt that Stefan NEVER did rescue him, He is the one who kept Damon from switching off his humanity and gave him hope and belief, he is the one who kept him from truly giving up on himself, Stefan and his humanity.. Enzo is sure as hell going to make sure that Stefan does not do that to Damon again. 5 whole years spent in captivity together, that is very hard to fathom and completely understand, but for Damon and probably more so Enzo (who had no one else), that experience bonded them like brothers and created that sense of loyalty. FFS, leaving Enzo to die is what caused the "mighty Damon Salvatore" (Lexi 1977), to finally flip that switch. As far as we know, Damon had never resorted to that, the loss of Katherine, his loneliness his pain from daily torture had not caused him to switch his humanity off before, but in order to leave Enzo to die in that fire, he had to switch it off, otherwise he could have never done it. That is how much Enzo meant to Damon at that time. Enzo and his Augustine experiences are a huge part of creating the Damon we now know, that is who Enzo is, not "Jonny come lately". Perhaps you should stop FF scenes that don't have Stefan in them.

As for the rest of this Ep, I thought it was great. I loved the horror of Tripp driving the vamps to their deaths with an evil laugh and loud music- very S1 feel, I enjoyed the mystery surrounding Bonnie and Damon, and who the hell is with them- again very S1. I don't know how this is all going to play out, and I like it. Keep it up writers, I am pleasantly intrigued. Overall, I felt most people were in character, although, I have to admit, as much as I love Damon, the comedic banter scenes with Bonnie are missing the mark for me, however, the more serious moments were done very well.

[truthaboutluv]

Perhaps you should stop FF scenes that don't have Stefan in them.

 

 

I must have missed the part where I ever stated I FF any scene that does not include Stefan, so that's clearly your little assumption. For the record, I saw every single episode last season including every single scene and know every single little detail you felt the need to outline above. And I maintained last season, just as I do now that I find the character and this whole Damon BFF backstory contrived as hell. That's my opinion. And I don't care if Enzo wants to declare his love for Damon on the rooftops forever and ever but I still call bullshit on some guy who knew Damon for a period of time where Damon later left him to die in a fire and murdered his so called great love, telling Damon's brother who has had more history with him than ANYONE how he is allowed to grieve said brother. And I also do have an issue with someone murdering an innocent woman for no other reason than to be an asshole.

 

Enzo and his Augustine experiences are a huge part of creating the Damon we now know,

 

 

Or another convenient and contrived rewrite in Damon's history to further justify his so called "complex bad boy nature." Funny it took FIVE seasons to get this amazing back-story that was responsible for the Damon Salvatore we know. And like I said last season, this organization existed that Damon was apparently meticulously murdering members of the family every generation and yet somehow completely missed that the whole thing was still thriving at a college a few miles from Mystic Falls and that Enzo was still very much alive.  

Edited October 12, 2014 by truthaboutluv

[miss-vanilla]

Apologies for the FF comment, my mistake, it was another poster who said that.

 

Stefan may be Damons' brother, and has known him forever and has the most history, but has he ever really understood him or his motivations? Enzo knew Damon for 5 yrs, day in day out. He knows what makes him tick, he understood him more in that time that Stefan ever did.

Stefan has been shown to underestimate his brother time and time again, and bad mouths him often. Enzo is just looking out for Damon,and I feel it is refreshing to have a character within the show give Stefan some home truths rather than pandering to his ego and hero complex.

 

 

Or another convenient and contrived rewrite in Damon's history to further justify his so called "complex bad boy nature." Funny it took FIVE seasons to get this amazing back-story that was responsible for the Damon Salvatore we know.

Well lets be real here, this is a 6 season show, there had to be some explanation as to why Damon is who he is now, just like there had to be a story behind Stefans inability to control his vampirism on human blood. I am not for one second gonna sit here and pretend it was the a flawlessly told story, because it wasn't, but it is part of the story, like or not.

It looks like we are going to see more of the Salvatore history soon, I wonder what the hell they will have had Damon do back in the 90s.

[grandemocha]

 

Stefan has been shown to underestimate his brother time and time again, and bad mouths him often.

Ehmm...just like Damon bad mouths Stefan? Tried to make Stefan's life miserable? Killed Stefan's best friend? Just like Damon stole Stefan's girlfriend? Shall I go on? Because there's a list about a mile long of shitty and fucked up things Damon has done to Stefan and I have a pretty damn good memory.

 

ETA: But there is no point whatsoever in me going on, because whatever perceived wrongdoing Stefan has done to Damon, Damon has made damn well sure to return ten fold to Stefan. 

 

feel it is refreshing to have a character within the show give Stefan some home truths

What truths? That brothers don't abandon eachother? Oops! Damon did abandon his brother on several occasions! Enzo literally said NOTHING new or "refreshing". He is nothing but a pale imitation of Damon crossed with Klaus. He is here because Damon is currently fake dead with Bonnie and Plec/Dries get horny for the "bad boy" types. 

 

He's a pathetic excuse for a character, acting like Damon's little bitch. He doesn't have any self respect otherwise he would have enough sense to not kiss Damon's ass after the guy left him to DIE in a burning jail cell. 

 

I don't watch this shitty show anymore bercause I got tired of Caroline Dries and Plec's obsession with Ian and their pathetic panting after a character like Damon, but I saw the hubub online over this episode and watched a few scenes.

 

Enzo isn't even a complex character. Plec and Dries can't have Damon doing the stupid "I'm going to give you an eternity of misery" shtick since Damon moved past that after Season 1, so rinse and repeat with Enzo's stupid ass.

 

Bottom line: It is not remotely his place to talk to Stefan about how brothers don't abandon one another after Damon spent 80% of Season 3 Episode 1 (after Stefan gave himself to Klaus for Damon's life) trying to get into Elena's panties by telling her to "Stop looking for him. Stefan is gone and not coming back. Stop waiting for him to come home". That was his brother and he didn't give a fuck.  So at this point, after Stefan spent months and months ACTIVELY searching for an answer and hitting dead ends, you'll have to excuse me if I don't give a flying fuck that Stefan tried to move on. He tried and there was NO answer. He put more effort into searching for Damon than Damon did for him.

 

He gave up so easily as far as searching for Stefan, and Stefan was alive. Ya know, after poor Stefan essentially sold himself to Klaus to save Damon's pitiful life. Defan is a joke just like Denzo is. The writers are so damn transparent, they wanted to give Damon his version of Lexi, and here he is. 

 

Only a dumbass like Enzo inserts themselves into a situation with knowing about only 25% of the entire story. Talk about overreacting and jumping the gun. 

 

What a fucking mess this show is.

Edited October 12, 2014 by grandemocha

[Carrie Ann]

Replying in the Relationships thread.

Edited October 12, 2014 by Carrie Ann

[DigitalCount]

So here's what I don't understand - in S1, Damon was able to compel Stefan because Stefan was still on his bunny diet. If Elena would go on bunny blood for a few days, she could have had Caroline compel her.

I'll probably post about this in the World thread, but the short answer is that dream manipulation is not compulsion. We've seen vamps do this before, but the effects generally wear off when the person wakes up (or dies, like with Rose). Off the top of my head, we've seen Damon and Katherine do it to Stefan, Damon did it to Rose shortly before a mercy kill (she was dying via wolf bite) and Sage did it to Bex but then she turned on the MFers when she learned they wanted to kill Finn.

[Inquiry]

 

Bottom line: It is not remotely his place to talk to Stefan about how brothers don't abandon one another after Damon spent 80% of Season 3 Episode 1 (after Stefan gave himself to Klaus for Damon's life) trying to get into Elena's panties by telling her to "Stop looking for him. Stefan is gone and not coming back. Stop waiting for him to come home". That was his brother and he didn't give a fuck.  So at this point, after Stefan spent months and months ACTIVELY searching for an answer and hitting dead ends, you'll have to excuse me if I don't give a flying fuck that Stefan tried to move on. He tried and there was NO answer. He put more effort into searching for Damon than Damon did for him.

 

While I don't believe Stefan is wrong in wanting to move on, I think the comparison between the current situation and Stefan's plight is tenuous. Damon disappeared because of an extraordinary, magic immersed event that had no precedent. It stands to reason that trying to bring Damon back would require more than a few months research. With that said, I completely understand why Stefan would want to move on with his life because everything he's been told points to the fact that Damon is gone forever. I think its hard for some viewers to understand Stefan's perspective, because the rules of storytelling dictate that there is some way for Damon to return. that there is a solution Stefan's situation was horrible, but not on the same scale. 

 

By the way, from what I remember of season 3, Damon extensively searched (with Alaric) for Stefan throughout the summer. In fact, didn't Damon only tell Elena that Stefan was never coming back after Stefan killed Andie, making it abundantly clear that he didn't want to be found? So, I'd argue that Damon very much cared about Stefan's plight. 

Edited October 14, 2014 by Inquiry

[grandemocha]

 

So, I'd argue that Damon very much cared about Stefan's plight.

 

 

He's such a caring brother. I can only hope that if I ever went missing after doing something incredibly selfless like Stefan did for Damon, then my brother would expose his nude body to my girlfriend. Damon exposing himself to Elena was a real admirable moment. Real classy. I can see him caring about Stefan's plight right in this very scene. /s

 

Damon searched for 2, maybe 2.5 months and only stopped after Stefan killed the woman Damon was feeding on, compelling, and using as a sex toy/ fake "girlfriend". As a member of the audience, you and I both know that Ian Somerhalder is a main character so obviously he is coming back to life ASAP. But Stefan is just a character who doesn't know that. Hitting dead ends again and again is bound to get depressing and frustrating. Unless he can create a solution out of thin air, I understand why he's decided to move on. This is all pointless though since he was never going to really be free. He was always going to get dragged back to MF group. Because he too (Paul Wesley) is a main character and has to have his scenes with everyone else.

 

What's done is done.

Edited October 15, 2014 by grandemocha

[slayer2]

My two cents is that Damon is an asshole who's basically the Klaus of the Salvatores and Stefan is the Elijah (not as nice and noble as he pretends to be) IMO they're both terrible people but I do like that Stefan is owning it now. I wanted things to work out with his breakfast eating girlfriend, I'm pretty unhappy they killed her off like they do EVERY DAMN CHARACTER before you even have a chance to blink at them. I didn't watch the show in full after that happened. I'm just watching the Bamon bits. Fuck everything else, frankly.

[Anisky]

I thought the Alaric erasing Damon from Elena's memory storyline was going to rip off Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, and having seen what it actually was, I wish they HAD gone the Eternal Sunshine-rip off route. It might have been more interesting.

 

That said, I am much more sympathetic to Elena's decision than everyone I've seen on these boards. The man I was in love with and expected to spend my life with died, and the grief was nearly unbearable. Each day was a torture to get through, in the beginning. But a month later, and especially four months later, it wasn't gone, but it had receded. I could think about other things, I could start to enjoy happy things in life for a few moments, even though I was still going through the grieving process.

 

If my emotional pain four months later were just as bad as the week after his death, and I truly believed it would continue, I don't think I'd have been able to take it. Realistically I probably would have begun to lose my grip on reality. Forgive me if I'm mixing this up with another vampire mythology, but there's reason to think that Elena's memory of him and the pain might not ever fade for eternity, yes? I know vampires don't have perfect memories on VD, but their brains and emotions definitely work differently. If her emotional pain was just as bad four months later, and she doesn't know for sure how vampire memory and emotions work, I can believe she'd believe they'd never fade without external help.

 

I can especially sympathize with her because people are not known for making the most rational decisions when wracked with grief. In fact they have a tendency to make pretty terrible ones that later they regret. I think a lot of people would be desperate enough after four months unrelenting (except for drugs) to want to do anything to escape the pain. The only difference is, a human's only choice is to keep going or to commit suicide. If they commit suicide, well, their story's over, and if they keep going then they hopefully look back someday on the good memories and are glad they remember them. Elena's only different in that she has other choices.

 

She should have asked Alaric to compel her to feel peaceful and be able to move on, or even flipped her humanity switch, but she did it this way for purposes of plot setup. I hate it when shows do that, but I don't think it really reflects on her as a character.

 

Also, I'm confused by everyone saying that Stefan searched for four months, and that particularly people who think that was too short a time are saying that. I thought the episode established that he'd searched for less than two months? It was four months since Damon and Bonnie died, and at the dinner scene it was revealed that Stefan had been living in that house in whatever town he was in for at least two months. The longest he could have searched before giving up was TWO months, yes?

Edited October 15, 2014 by Anisky

[kmariee]

So here’s how I took the whole Enzo vs. Stefan thing. Enzo’s pissed at Stefan because when he was in captivity with Damon for 5 years and the one thing that kept Damon’s hope alive was that Stefan would find him. Enzo also encouraged Damon to keep that hope alive and didn’t Damon say something along the lines of how Enzo defended Stefan when Damon was bad-mouthing him in the cell because he hadn’t found him yet (or ever really.) I think Enzo and Damon just became really close in that cell together (kind of like POW.) He has an extreme loyalty to Damon because if this even though he left him in that cell to die. Plus Enzo spent 70 years in captivity the guy CLEARLY has some PTSD/anger issues which is why he reacts so violently and abruptly to everything (i.e. killing Ivy for no reason.)

One thing that seems to be apparent with Enzo is he’s very loyal to you if he likes you. He’s loyal to Damon and Caroline because he’s connected with them, he doesn’t appear to feel the same way about Stefan. Also even though Enzo & Stefan fought before he saw Caroline crying it seemed like when he got in the car with her he was just going to let Stefan be. It was only after he saw how upset she was he went back inside. He did that because he knew how much Caroline cares for Stefan and that she’s the last person he should ever hurt. I don’t condone his murdering Ivy but like I said dude has some serious anger issues.

 

What I really think is happening is Stefan is hiding something and running from something. Enzo said it himself “so many secrets, what are you running from?” Stefan has been known to keep secrets to protect his friends/family and I think he’s doing that now. I think he found something while he was following those leads and it forced him to stop. Also why wouldn’t Stefan just tell Alaric “hey sorry I just can’t do this anymore, I need to move on.” No, he actively kept pretending that he was still searching and following leads, it just doesn’t add up.

 

I thoroughly enjoyed this episode and I’m really interested to see where it’s all going. This is the first times in a long time this show hasn’t been predictable, I genuinely have no clue what’s going to happen next.