S03.E01: The Calm

[somewhereother]

Dear arrow writers,

Can't you find another way?

[Chaser]

I hope the Eps get so much push back for this. I really want someone to call them out on how they did such a sucky job on Laurel that they literally had to kill another character to make her the least bit relevant.

 

Also, I'm pissed because I was actually thinking I could tolerate Laurel this season. I was thinking this season was going to be awesome. I loved Felicity, Diggle, Lyla, Lance, OLICITY. I even enjoyed Ray (even if he came on too strong right out of the gate). 

 

I am not watching Laurel and Oliver bond in their grief over Sara's death! They already took away Sara they can't take away Olicity too. If Felicity so much as gets a paper cut to prop up Laurel, I hope this show goes down in flames. 

 

Also, side-lining Diggle?? I know he is going to be back in the fold, but I can't take that after Sara.

[quarks]

I don't think killing off a character will necessarily hurt ratings - ratings went up post Tommy's death, Malcolm's "death," Yao Fei's death, and Moira's death. The only actual case where the ratings went down was after Shado's death, and that arguably could be blamed on other factors - the six week hiatus, the slight up in ratings for that particular episode because of the Barry Allen hype, and the "great news, everyone! Now that you're all excited about Deathstroke, Oliver and Felicity, and Roy getting superpowers, the next five episodes are going to focus on Laurel!" promotion.  And Sara wasn't universally popular - though to be fair, I can't think of any character on this show that is except maybe Diggle. Or I guess the houseplant.  

[bluebonnet]

I had to take a break from all things Arrow for most of the hiatus because I wanted to keep liking this show and the idea of Laurel becoming something she shouldn't be was really making it very unfun for me.  Didn't even realize season 3 premiered tonight so it was a delight to see it on my DVR when I sat down to watch some tv.  

 

So many things I loved about this episode.  It felt like one of the best.  All the characters felt right to me.  Felicity and Oliver have incredible chemistry.  Was super excited to see them go on a date even though I knew it was too early for a real, long term relationship to happen.  I loved that Felicity basically told Oliver that she isn't one to sit around and pine over him until he gets his act together.  She's a pretty incredible character. Quentin was great.  The first thing I thought is that if they were going to addict route, he at least was acting as though he were truly intoxicated.  Part of that is healing from a severe injury, but I didn't have any reason to question why they were focusing on the pill bottles if they decide to use an addiction plot.  I was a bit iffy on Roy because it seemed like he went through some sort of super training that made him suddenly able to climb walls and whip around people.  However, I've seen comments about his parkour skills so it's likely I've forgotten.  Enjoyed Diggle because he's Diggle.  Ray Palmer looks interesting and I'm exciting to get to know this character.   I also really loved Laurel.  She was doing exactly what I hoped she would do all along - being a lawyer, coordinating with the team, being a daughter, being a sister.  Her interactions looked like they were comfortable with the others, which was something new.  

 

And then the end happened.  I was on this incredible high from watching the episode until Sara was murdered.  They didn't even give us the ability to hope that she could survive because they shot her with three Arrows then dropped her off a roof on her head.  It was like the writers just really wanted to make sure that we knew she was dead dead dead.  No hope at all.  It left a nasty taste in my mouth.  TPTB have seemed so intent on getting KC into the Black Canary role and I worry this will be what happens.  It's almost unfair to KC because they didn't allow her to really build up any sort of good faith and rapport with the audience this season.  Sara's death is obviously going to strongly effect everyone, but it's different with Laurel.  Laurel has been the most inconsistent character on the show.  We still don't really know who Laurel is.  There's so little substance there.  And now, it's very possible that this plot will drive her into a direction that just doesn't fit.  She was amazing in this role they placed her in tonight.  She was previously in my top three hated tv characters but throughout most of this episode I felt like she could one day become someone almost beloved.  She felt real and natural.  

 

It's just such a shame.  I hope they don't make Laurel the new BC.  I hope she doesn't become a vigilante.  I hope they are smart enough to keep her right where she is, even if it's a leaner meaner version.  KC does well with that stuff.  But I don't have any faith in the writers.  

[thuganomics85]

 

And Sara wasn't universally popular - though to be fair, I can't think of any character on this show that is except maybe Diggle. Or I guess the houseplant.

The Salmon Ladder!  I think it's more popular then half of the cast, heh.

 

Of course, they'll probably kill it off, to help Laurel's quest to becoming the Canary...

[foreverevolving]

putting my feelings regarding the Sara's murder (yes yes it was pure murder, by the TPTB) aside and Fakanary well being fake. this was a really solid premiere.

 

The Olicity moments were everything i thought it will be. awesome, and goofy, and romantic and heartbreaking all at once.

The asking scene was.. well awesome. I loved how Felicity put her hand on Oliver heart and told him something about feeling from the heart, or that he knows it in his heart (yea writers, real subtle *rolls eyes- sarcastic tone*), and it was enough to make him take a chance. I enjoyed how Felicity didn't get it at first until Oliver pretty much drove the question in. mostly because when it comes to romance i'm just like that. i need to be hit with a hammer on the head to realize a guy likes me and is asking me out. subtly doesn't work with me, cause it just flies over me.

The date scene was oh so awesome. Especially Oliver admitting he was nervous. and Felicity not sure what they can talk about since they spend every single time together

I was tearing up during their hallway scene. the kiss was awesome (except for that light shining between them which reminded me too much of Fakanary/Oliver kissing scene in 1x23- or is it 1x22?).

But the way he begged her to not ask him to say he doesn't love her, and the way his hands kind of hung in the air after she walked away, and then he put them down looking oh so defeated. i was just.....

 

And then fraking speedster called, and i remembered all of the sudden the smile Oliver had when Barry speeded away and saying "cool". and i'm like... dude you just had your heart broken (and broke one too) you are not allowed to smile you should be doing: 

 

 

Digglet is adorable.

the bro-ugg was.. well the fact Oliver initiated it was, 'Wow, what just happened?! this is.. he..? ohhh'

 

 

I don't mind Palmer. he actually didn't came off as too smarmy but as over confident... he knows exactly what he is offering and selling, and how good he is. i was actually impressed. i'm a little shocked Felicity wouldn't know who Ray Palmer is, considering he is probably running a multibillion company of his own with a nice tech department, she must have send her resume to that company which means she probably researched it. so.. plot hole?

 

Oliver thinks Thea is backpacking through Europe. not surprised she is not sending any pics. i mean what is she gonna say: 'there ya` go Ollie, this is me in europe.

and ohh! look who i ran into: Daddy Merlyn. aren't you dead?

, But first, let's take a selfie.. and text it to my big brother.' ie is there anyone who reads this forum who doesn't know 

Merlyn is still alive?

.

 

 

What else. so is Quentin gonna be a drug addict now? cause the man was popping them painkillers like they were candy.

 

I realized in the FakanaryxQuentin hospital scene that Fakanary was decently likable tonight and KC acting was somewhat tolerable- for her you know (for any better actor..)

And then..

Edited October 9, 2014 by foreverevolving

[Actionmage]

He was like a monkey lol.

 

I know of a British scientist with TBI (Traumatic Brain Injury) over on ABC who lurves him some monkeys! *G* He also won't shoot Roy with arrows to the knee. Bonus, right?

 

I am going to stay in the kiddie end, for this post anyway.

 

I am glad as hell that someone is pointing out that  there needs to be a re-branding of Starling to Star. The latter does have a hopefulness to it. It also implies a forward-looking mentality, a true moving on.   

 

Is the baby going to be a Michaels, a Diggle, a hyphenate? I am just curious. Michaela Diggle?  Miki for short?  Loved Felicity's squees over the baby and her good wishes. Fee is such a cool lady.  Maybe after midseason we can see the baby a bit more.

 

I liked that The Count was a whistler. I don't whistle all that well myself, so it was enjoyable to me. Thanks to all who could name the piece. I am familiar with it, but didn't know the name.

 

As to Felicity getting QC hoist on her petard, well... Felicity, while cool, needs to hoard her mad skillz. Surely she should've been more circumspect since he knew who she was before he got to the dad-blamed store. Oh, the start of Fall hasn't been kind to Ms. Smoak the last two years. At least this year she didn't have to parachute anywhere. Bonus! *g*

[KenyaJ]

Also, Oliver hugging him was one of the greatest "Awwwww!" moments ever.

 

That was so great. Such a sweet, lovely moment that felt well-earned after the first two seasons. What made it even more affecting is that it was bracketed by Oliver staring in Felicity's direction when Diggle said "The second I looked at her, everything changed. The whole universe changed," and then the look of pain on his face while he looked at Felicity, Lyla, the baby and the life he thinks he'll never have.

 

Right in the feels, man.

[Chaser]

I did love the Olicity scenes. I was a little worried about that next step, but they are perfect. I just wish I had faith in the writers.

[apinknightmare]

Also, can I just chime in and say that I'm pissed they had Oliver be so broke that FELICITY BOUGHT HIM A BED? Like, come on, show. COME ON WITH THIS.

Edited October 9, 2014 by apinknightmare

[benteen]

I've realized we've gone over 100 posts without mentioning Barry Allen's cameo.  There's really not much to talk about it, just a brief scene to set up Oliver's appearance on The Flash the previous night.  But I didn't expect that.

 

I was not feeling the flashbacks tonight and I think they ran their course last season.  We don't have to see every little crap Oliver was doing in his five years on the island, especially if it means more of the no-presence, charismatic void that is The CW's Waller. 

 

I did note one interesting thing Oliver said tonight..."When I chose to leave the island."  The Oliver we saw in the pilot looked like he had been on an island for five months.  All long hair and beard.  So was this a suggestion that by the time of the first episode, he left wherever he was so he could be discovered on the island?  That is was just another cover for him at the very end?

[Guest]

I am still not over Sara's death. And as someone who was willing to give Laurel a chance this season, I am feeling kind of resentful towards her at the moment because she is the only reason Sara was killed off. I'm actually pretty surprised how attached I was to Sara. I didn't realize.

 

I loved Diggle in this episode. Calling Oliver out on his BS was perfect. I don't like the daddy arc thing so I'm hoping him thinking Oliver was right to take him out of the field doesn't last too long. I can chalk that up to him being a new dad and emotions running high. 

 

Olicity were perfect. I loved how awkward and nervous they were on their date. It felt like a real moment between two people who were taking a new step in their relationship. All the touching and flirting was intense. Their chemistry is off the charts and that kiss was wow. Emotional and hot all at once. I loved it.

 

I actually expected more from the Vertigo thing but I thought the fight between Oliver and the Arrow was awesome and so well done.

 

I did not like Ray. He was too smarmy and arrogant. I hope they dial that back. I did not see any 'insane chemistry' between BR and EBR. They had banter but that was it. Nothing. On that note I am now refusing to listen to anything the EP's have to say considering they have been going on and on about how amazing their chemistry was. I didn't see that at all. I suppose that could change though.

 

I was enjoying Laurel for most of the episode. The way she said 'Did I say that too loud?' was really cute. But then they had to go kill Sara to motivate her journey to BC and nope. Not ok. They should have started it with Tommy. That would have made more sense. This is just killing off characters to prop her and I do not approve.

 

So yeah. I enjoyed it. The filming and editing was odd, like it felt unfinished somehow? But it was a solid start to the season. 

Edited October 9, 2014 by Guest

[statsgirl]

  I loved that Felicity basically told Oliver that she isn't one to sit around and pine over him until he gets his act together.  She's a pretty incredible character. 

 

If Oliver and Laurel spend the next three episodes bonding over  Sara's death (the spoilers said Sara and Roy but that's obviously a misdirect), I won't

blame Felicity at all for kissing Barry and Ray and whoever else she wants to kiss,

 

Okay, on the good side, Roy was pretty awesome climbing that pole to get the freezing compound (and good for Felicity for the idea.

 

Oliver/Diggle bromance was good.  Although I hate that Diggle told Oliver he was right, it's just going to feed his manpain.

 

Is Storemare's Count dead now?  When he first injected that thug and the guy was a fish head, I thought, that's your greatest fear? Giant fish?

[apinknightmare]

I did note one interesting thing Oliver said tonight..."When I chose to leave the island."  The Oliver we saw in the pilot looked like he had been on an island for five months.  All long hair and beard.  So was this a suggestion that by the time of the first episode, he left wherever he was so he could be discovered on the island?  That is was just another cover for him at the very end?

 

I wonder if he either struck a deal with Waller or fulfilled his commitment to her, and decided it would be easiest to return to the island and wait for a boat to come along and bring him back to Starling so he had a strong cover story?

 

I DON'T KNOW, I'M FINDING IT DIFFICULT TO CARE RIGHT NOW

[wingster55]

was a bit iffy on Roy because it seemed like he went through some sort of super training that made him suddenly able to climb walls and whip around people.

 

He was able to do that when he was first introduced..so I view it as just going back to the beginning in a way. 

 

I've realized we've gone over 100 posts without mentioning Barry Allen's cameo.  There's really not much to talk about it, just a brief scene to set up Oliver's appearance on The Flash the previous night.  But I didn't expect that.

 

It was spoiled on twitter by the EPs so I (amongst others) was expecting it. I knew it'd be quick but I was just expecting a red zip.

 

I did note one interesting thing Oliver said tonight..."When I chose to leave the island."  The Oliver we saw in the pilot looked like he had been on an island for five months.  All long hair and beard.  So was this a suggestion that by the time of the first episode, he left wherever he was so he could be discovered on the island?  That is was just another cover for him at the very end?

 

I've long thought so...and the beard might have been fake...a la the others on Lost.

Edited October 9, 2014 by wingster55

[quarks]

Er, on other topics:

 

1. I have to agree that the first half of the show felt really rushed and off paced; it felt more like Arrow to me in the second half, if that makes sense. Perhaps the writers felt uncomfortable with the whole concept of a happy, not angsty Arrow?

 

2. Ray Palmer: 

 

Yikes, Arrow writers. This is supposed to be Felicity's alternative relationship? The guy that hacked into her friend's company and then took it over? Bonus negative points because this was the same board that appointed Isabel as CEO even after Isabel devalued the stock, and this is after Oliver essentially ignored the company to hunt down Slade, so, you know, really, Palmer shouldn't have needed any extra info. Plus the borderline stalking. Good on Felicity for taking her revenge, but holy crap is this relationship going to need a hell of a lot of stuff to convince me going forward. At the moment I don't even want her working with him, even if this becomes a way to keep an eye on him/track what's going on in QC.  You want to give Felicity an alternative relationship? Don't give her a tech/geek guy, necessarily: give her someone nice, like Barry.

 

Also, I don't want to sound pessimistic or anything, but it may take more than a name change to get people to move back to Starling City after the last two season finales.

 

3. Speaking of which, I did like that the show addressed the fact that the city cannot be a very popular place to live right now.

 

4. Baby Diggle was adorable. Do we have a name yet?  Also, Diggle more scared of fatherhood than superpowered people rampaging through the city.

 

5. Oliver! Diggle! MAN HUGS!  

 

6.  Hi houseplant! Hope you don't die like the crushed souls of many Arrow viewers tonight.

 

Also, what is Oliver sleeping on?  That futon?

 

7. Anyone else laugh when the show acknowledged just how often Oliver goes shirtless? Just me?

 

8. I keep thinking I can't hate Amanda Waller more that I already do, and then, she forces someone to imprison Oliver by threatening a kid. A CUTE KID. YOU SUCK AMANDA.  And congratulations: you just beat Laurel to the top of my list of Least Favorite Characters on Arrow. There's only two people on it.  What does that tell you?

 

9. And, back to Oliver/Felicity. SNIFFLE.  Those. Two. Kids.  "Don't ask me to say I don't love you."  Oliver, someone needs to hit you on the head, hard. Where's Diggle? I told you, this show needs more of him.

[Lord Kira]

I loved the episode... up until the last two minutes. But I'll talk about the good, before I get to the bad.

 

The Good:

 

1. Oliver's character. I thought he was really well-written tonight. His explanation at how he had only saw people as threats or targets was really on point and explains a lot of his past actions. His conclusion that he can't be Oliver Queen made sense too, as the second he tried that it went dead wrong.

 

2. Diggle's character. I was glad to see him get a lot of screen time as well as his own little story. I had half-expected him to be second fiddle to Olicity, but between his story with Lyla and his interactions with Oliver, it was a great episode for him. Having this kid opens a whole new avenue of insight into his character.

 

3. Felicity. I like how she wasn't just some love-sick puppy. She was a strong character in her own right, even if she was going through some emotional tings involving men. She seems stronger and more poised in tonight's episode than I remember her being all last season.

 

4. Barry cameo. Was great, but would have been better had Arrow aired it's premiere first.

 

5. Quentin. Glad he's not dead. Hope his dedication to being a cop doesn't get him killed.

 

6. Ray Palmer. He was terrific. This is the kind of guy Brandon Routh is good at, not the evil smug douche he is known for. I like his plan for the city, his interactions with Felicity, and the fact that he has a point. He's not some bad guy who will be proven wrong to prop up Oliver's point of view.

 

7. Olicity. Perfect. It was extremely well-handled. There was nothing forced about it.

 

8. The acting. Everyone brought their A-Game.

 

 

The Okay:

 

1. Laurel. I didn't mind her much tonight. Other than her first scene where the "THIS IS IMPORTANT STUFF HAPPENING" music was playing during her lines, which had nothing to do with her character herself. I did roll my eyes hard at her scene in the hospital where she lectured Quentin for not doing as he was instructed, when she has never ever done as she was told. And Katie Cassidy wasn't terrible tonight. She still can't emote to save her life, but she wasn't at her worse.

 

 

The Bad:

 

1. Sara's death. What the hell? Why the heck would they think this would be a good idea after all of the drama surrounding Canary and how most fans prefer her to Laurel? Why kill her now instead of in the finale? Why kill her now when her in the LOA opened so many story opportunities for her with Nyssa, Ras, her morals, etc.? They killed the wrong damn sister, and this will bite them in the ass. No one will accept Laurel as the Canary now. I sure won't. In fact, this is already coloring my opinion of Laurel and I didn't even hate her in tonight's episode.

 

[Chaser]

I wish they had left the flashbacks out. Only one was really relevant - two sides and yada yada yada. The present could have used that time.

 

I was fully expecting Oliver to pull the "Its too dangerous for you" card on Felicity, but it was all about the mission for him. I'm kinda happy about that because that card was stupid.

 

I really wanted Diggle to just be like "No" and go on the mission away. He should have decided to step back after looking at his daughter. It just didn't ring true that he wouldn't go with them.

 

Chemistry with Ray? Sure, but it wasn't that great. And I wish he didn't have as much screen time. It was just too much.

[strikera0]

I don't think killing off a character will necessarily hurt ratings - ratings went up post Tommy's death, Malcolm's "death," Yao Fei's death, and Moira's death. The only actual case where the ratings went down was after Shado's death, and that arguably could be blamed on other factors - the six week hiatus, the slight up in ratings for that particular episode because of the Barry Allen hype, and the "great news, everyone! Now that you're all excited about Deathstroke, Oliver and Felicity, and Roy getting superpowers, the next five episodes are going to focus on Laurel!" promotion.  And Sara wasn't universally popular - though to be fair, I can't think of any character on this show that is except maybe Diggle. Or I guess the houseplant.  

 

Agreed. As much as I enjoyed Sara, I don't think her death will have any big repercussions on the ratings. Sure, there may be some people who will stop watching after this episode, but I think at least the vast majority of online fans will keep tuning in as long as they are getting Olicity, so the producers were actually pretty smart in killing off Sara's character in a Olicity-heavy episode/season. Now that I think about it, they pulled the same card with the jacket hand-off in the season 2 finale...

Edited October 9, 2014 by strikera0

[quarks]

I also really loved Laurel.  She was doing exactly what I hoped she would do all along - being a lawyer, coordinating with the team, being a daughter, being a sister.  Her interactions looked like they were comfortable with the others, which was something new.

 

 

I can't say I loved Laurel, but in her scene with Quentin, I was thinking, ok, Arrow, if you stick to this Laurel this season, I'm good. 

 

That might be part of the problem - after two seasons, this show finally gave us a good (well, ok) Laurel: fighting crime through the law, finally looking vulnerable at the thought of losing her father, who seemed to have a decent upcoming plot line - trying to keep her father from killing himself through work and apparently an upcoming drug addiction, and having gotten to this place, it looks like we are going to get a different, vengeful Laurel in the very next episode.

 

Regarding Roy's fighting skills: his stunt double had parkour and fighting skills in the first season, so I was ok with that. 

Edited October 9, 2014 by quarks

[NumberCruncher]

Agreed. As much as I enjoyed Sara, I don't think her death will have any big repercussions on the ratings. Sure, there may be some people who will stop watching after this episode, but I think at least the vast majority of online fans will keep tuning in as long as they are getting Olicity. So the producers were actually pretty smart in killing off Sara's character in a Olicity-heavy episode/season and now that I think about it, they pulled the same card with the jacket hand-off in the season 2 finale...

 

+1

 

I think this is exactly right.  It does come off as sort of a trade-off for comic canon vs. non-comic canon viewers.  Oliver Queen romances someone other than Dinah/Laurel Lance to keep the TV fans happy and the path is cleared for Laurel Lance to become Black Canary to keep the comic book purists happy.

[Morrigan2575]

Caity made me cry

Caity Lotz (@caitylotz) tweeted at 10:56 PM on Wed, Oct 08, 2014:

Shhh shhh sweet Nyssa. Everything is going to be okay. #ArrowSeason3Premiere #LGBT http://t.co/ski6K3jC6K

(https://twitter.com/caitylotz/status/520045141705240576?s=03)

[Carrie Ann]

Back with further thoughts, but still none regarding Sara because there's just sad blankness there now.

 

So I'm this huge Oliver fan, right, and I can usually understand his thinking and why he makes the stupid mistakes he makes, etc. And while I loved every Olicity scene tonight, the more I think about him kissing her and saying "Don't tell me to say I don't love you," the more mad I get. Like. Are you serious? What was the goal there? He'd made his decision; he's all sure about it. The least he owes her is what she asked--that he say "never" instead of "maybe."

 

I'm rooting for Felicity + As Many Other Dudes or Dudettes As She Can Possibly Get With at this point, while Oliver cries a river of manpain.

[apinknightmare]

Also, what is Oliver sleeping on?  That futon?

 

He's sleeping on a bed THAT FELICITY BOUGHT FOR HIM

 

will that ever stop making me angry, idk

[KenyaJ]

Also, can I just chime in and say that I'm pissed they had Oliver be so broke that FELICITY BOUGHT HIM A BED? Like, come on, show. COME ON WITH THIS.

 

But did she buy it for him because he couldn't afford it, or because the stupid idiot wouldn't think twice of sleeping on the floor?  I mean, he was living in a crashed airplane this time last year. He's not really into luxury and creature comforts.

 

In any event, the next time Felicity and Oliver talk about a bed, it had better be because they're both too exhausted to leave it.

[apinknightmare]

But did she buy it for him because he couldn't afford it, or because the stupid idiot wouldn't think twice of sleeping on the floor?  I mean, he was living in a crashed airplane this time last year. He's not really into luxury and creature comforts.

 

In any event, the next time Felicity and Oliver talk about a bed, it had better be because they're both too exhausted to leave it.

 

Who knows. The fact that he let her do it is what irritates me? She's working early shifts at Buy More, fucker, do not say something stupid like I LET YOU BUY ME A BED. And what happened to the old bed? The one you slept with Sara on when you were being tacky bitches and having relations in the foundry?

 

OMG I'm speaking ill of the dead. I need a minute.

[quarks]

He's sleeping on a bed THAT FELICITY BOUGHT FOR HIM

will that ever stop making me angry, idk

 

 

I missed that bit. 

 

If it makes you feel any better, I doubt that she could have afforded a decent bed at whatever they are paying her at the Buy More. So, probably something uncomfortable. Or maybe lumpy.

[abhi]

Fuck you, Arrow producers, especially Guggenheim, who seems to have a shine for Katie Cassidy for killing Sara. Fuck you to hell.

[kdm07]

Caity made me cry

 

Caity come back! *cries desperately at my laptop screen*

[bluebonnet]

Also, can I just chime in and say that I'm pissed they had Oliver be so broke that FELICITY BOUGHT HIM A BED? Like, come on, show. COME ON WITH THIS.

I actually really liked that.  I mean, I roll my eyes at the thought of a billionaire being suddenly and completely broke.  However, I liked that this strong female is the one giving the gifts and not really carrying what anyone thinks about it.  It's just so Felicity.  In real life we see women like this all the time -refusing to be doormats and not worried about doing the 'proper' think like expecting the dude to give the gifts.  On TV, it's a very underrepresented trait.  

 

I can't say I loved Laurel, but in her scene with Quentin, I was thinking, ok, Arrow, if you stick to this Laurel this season, I'm good. 

 

That might be part of the problem - after two seasons, this show finally gave us a good (well, ok) Laurel: fighting crime through the law, finally looking vulnerable at the thought of losing her father, who seemed to have a decent upcoming plot line - trying to keep her father from killing himself through work and apparently an upcoming drug addiction, and having gotten to this place, it looks like we are going to get a different, vengeful Laurel in the very next episode.

 

 

The writers are so tone death with Laurel.  I haven't gotten into reading any reviews or recaps yet, but I wonder how many will be saying just this very thing - that the Laurel they presented here finally seemed like it might fit only to have that hope smashed with Sara's death.  

 

He was able to do that when he was first introduced..so I view it as just going back to the beginning in a way. 

 

I'm good with that.  Something I completely forgot about since the end of season 2 was still in my head.  

[apinknightmare]

I missed that bit. 

 

If it makes you feel any better, I doubt that she could have afforded a decent bed at whatever they are paying her at the Buy More. So, probably something uncomfortable. Or maybe lumpy.

 

He says it to her right after she gives him the houseplant. I HOPE THE BED POPS A SPRING AND STABS HIM IN THE BACK.

 

I'm so angry tonight, haha

[JayKay]

I thought that Oliver said that Felicity should have bought him a bed instead of a plant, and then Roy and Diggle exchanged a look behind them? But then my audio was wonky and I could genuinely not understand a word out of Peter Stormare's mouth.

[apinknightmare]

I actually really liked that.  I mean, I roll my eyes at the thought of a billionaire being suddenly and completely broke.  However, I liked that this strong female is the one giving the gifts and not really carrying what anyone thinks about it.  It's just so Felicity.  In real life we see women like this all the time -refusing to be doormats and not worried about doing the 'proper' think like expecting the dude to give the gifts.  On TV, it's a very underrepresented trait. 

 

I don't have a problem with her giving him things, and it is very her, and part of the reason why I find her so endearing as a person and I like her so much as a character, but it was the way the whole conversation took place and the way Oliver said it that just got to me and I probably wouldn't be so angry about it if what happened at the end hadn't happened at the end, so now I'm being nitpicky.

[foreverevolving]

Back with further thoughts, but still none regarding Sara because there's just sad blankness there now.

 

So I'm this huge Oliver fan, right, and I can usually understand his thinking and why he makes the stupid mistakes he makes, etc. And while I loved every Olicity scene tonight, the more I think about him kissing her and saying "Don't tell me to say I don't love you," the more mad I get. Like. Are you serious? What was the goal there? He'd made his decision; he's all sure about it. The least he owes her is what she asked--that he say "never" instead of "maybe."

true, he has declared that he has made his decision, that is true. but is he 100% sure of his decision?

The Arrow may be sure- because as long as Oliver Queen is present he will continue to be a distraction, a fear instigator, a symbol of hope for a happy life the Arrow can/will never have. So The Arrow is sure, but not Oliver Queen. And as much as he is going to be Ignoring Oliver Queen existence and try to bury him six feet under; he will always be there. and it is Oliver Queen (not the Arrow- well for this season anyway, i'm fully expecting, hoping, for them to merge into one by the beginning of next season) who is in love with Felicity.

Edited October 9, 2014 by foreverevolving

[apinknightmare]

I thought that Oliver said that Felicity should have bought him a bed instead of a plant, and then Roy and Diggle exchanged a look behind them? But then my audio was wonky and I could genuinely not understand a word out of Peter Stormare's mouth.

 

I thought he said, "I let you buy me a bed," and she said, "You were sleeping on the floor." They didn't enunciate properly because they were smiling at each other like the love-struck doofuses they are.

[Chaser]

I just saw a gif set of Sara's death. I was in shock after it happened, because now I'm teary eyed. I loved her character more than I thought I did. She deserved better. It's making me so angry.

 

The theory going around that they traded Olicity for Laurel as the Black Canary sounds about right. I love Olicity and I liked all the Endgame hints (the light thru the kiss was a bit heavy handed - though not as HEAVY AS A BODY).

 

What I am laughing about though is the fact that this episode is solidifying opinions on Laurel. I was poking around online and reading comments. The people who hated her before still hate her. The people who loved her still loved her. And I'm seeing people who were indifferent now hating her. Twitter must be fun right now.

[apinknightmare]

The theory going around that they traded Olicity for Laurel as the Black Canary sounds about right. I love Olicity and I liked all the Endgame hints (the light thru the kiss was a bit heavy handed - though not as HEAVY AS A BODY).

 

Yeah, I thought that's what was going to happen. I just really, really hoped they weren't going to kill Sara to do it.

[DrSpaceman10]

I had a hard time understanding some of the things certain characters were saying too (especially Ray), I've never really had a problem with that before. Maybe the audio for this episode wasn't that great?

[Lord Kira]

This is the third person that died for the sake of making Laurel relevant. The third! Tommy died so Laurel would have a reason to be on-screen in season 2, Kate Spencer died so Laurel could have her job and sweep her own actions under the rug, and now Sara dies so Laurel can be Black Canary. 

 

When this many have to die for own character to be relevant.... why not kill the useless character instead?

 

These idiot writers will never let Laurel go. They are as in love with Katie as AlMiles were in love with Kristen Kreuk. on Smallville. There won't take to heart any criticism about her, they won't ever kill her off when they have characters people actually like they can kill instead. The only hope we have is Katie deciding to leave the show, because now we know there is no way in hell the writers will ever choose to write her off.

[bluebonnet]

I had a hard time understanding some of the things certain characters were saying too (especially Ray), I've never really had a problem with that before. Maybe the audio for this episode wasn't that great?

I was thinking the same thing, too, while watching.  I thought it was because I was laying down so maybe one ear was covered to much.  Then I ended up moving positions and later going to take some allergy meds because I figured perhaps my allergies were muffling things.  I nearly put on cc because I just couldn't understand what they were saying.  Glad someone else noticed and I don't have to wonder if I'm losing my hearing.  

[Morrigan2575]

The theory going around that they traded Olicity for Laurel as the Black Canary sounds about right. I love Olicity and I liked all the Endgame hints (the light thru the kiss was a bit heavy handed - though not as HEAVY AS A BODY).

Yeah, I had that thought awhile back, probably when SDCC started, they did a compromise and Sara fans (like me, Abhi and Sakura) got screwed. Although, I'm and Olicity fan so I didn't get screwed as much as they did.

Edited October 9, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[Lantern7]

Looking for something to watch at 8? Well, Survivor had a happy ending tonight. I was feelin' little pain right before Sara got whacked on the DVR a little after 10. Then . . .  damn, really? Even if Caity is moving on to bigger and better things . . . really?!? And what sucks is that the timing has Ollie giving Barry his pep talk. Can you imagine the phone call? "Barry? Hi, it's Oliver. Listen, I hope things are 'flash-y' for you, because my 'Super Friend With Benefits' got killed while we were chatting away. By the way, you have to become your mask full time, Barry. Don't question it, just go with it."

 

Seriously, this was a good episode before the whacking. Sure, the Ollicity died a painful death, Quentin had another episode, and it looks like Amanda Waller is still a scrawny stick bitch. . . but I was having fun. Felicity looked hot, Diggle and Oliver had a bro hug, and Roy looked super competent. And then  . . . arrows. I didn't think the writers would do it. Then again, I kept waiting for Chloe to get killed on Smallville, so maybe my "death-dar" is out of whack when it comes to capable blondes.

 

And Laurel had better not become Canary. Really, show, there is no realistic way you can have that happen now. You'd need her hanging out with the League of Assassins full-time for two years getting a crash course, and you wouldn't do it because it would take her offscreen. Look at the posts, show. Eight just popped up as I'm writing this. This isn't about absolute values, guys. You can't claim victory for killing Sara. You just can't.

 

I just realized that I saw Brandon Routh on Monday. Well, a Brandon Routh . . . at the wax museum, in his Superman jammies. Here's hoping he does better as Ray Palmer. So far, so good . . . and he might make for a potential love interest for Felicity. Think about it . . . he's loaded and a geek. He's a peanut butter-n-jelly sandwich if you're thinking Ollie and Barry.

 

Seriously, Arrow, what the hell?!? At least the gravestone doesn't have "FOR REALS THIS TIME" under "SARA LANCE."

[Chaser]

Anyone on Twitter? I'm not and I'm afraid to look but I want to know what people are saying.

[apinknightmare]

I had a hard time understanding some of the things certain characters were saying too (especially Ray), I've never really had a problem with that before. Maybe the audio for this episode wasn't that great?

 

I wonder if they might've been talking faster in order to cram more in to the episode? Because for me it wasn't so much a sound issue as a SLOW THE HELL DOWN issue.

So, DID Quentin have another episode? I thought he was popping pills because he was having chest pains. Maybe I missed something.

[quarks]

I thought the audio issues were just me - I don't have cable television, so I get the CW on broadcast, and the signal wasn't always perfect.

 

I guess I'll be using closed captioning for rewatches.

[statsgirl]

I thought Oliver said "Why don't you buy me a bed?" when she told him she had bought him a houseplant.

 

Remember when they said Ray Palmer was like Cary Grant? What the heck Cary Grant movie were they watching?  Sylvia Scarlett?  

Agreed. As much as I enjoyed Sara, I don't think her death will have any big repercussions on the ratings. Sure, there may be some people who will stop watching after this episode, but I think at least the vast majority of online fans will keep tuning in as long as they are getting Olicity, so the producers were actually pretty smart in killing off Sara's character in a Olicity-heavy episode/season. Now that I think about it, they pulled the same card with the jacket hand-off in the season 2 finale...

I think it will have repercussions on the Olicity fans they didn't anticipate.  If they're willing to kill off Sara so that Laurel can become the Black Canary, how can we trust them not to kill off Felicity in season four so that Laurel can get Oliver in season five after his period of mourning?

 

Why should I stay invested? Laurel is going to get everything in the end because she's their Blind Spot.

Edited October 9, 2014 by statsgirl

[apinknightmare]

I thought Oliver said "Why don't you buy me a bed?" when she told him she had bought him a houseplant.

 

I thought so too at first, but then why would she say "You were sleeping on the floor"?

[scarynikki12]

If the show wanted me to stop watching, Marc G could have just told me when I fangirled to him at Comic Con (and I've been rethinking that moment over and over because HE KNEW that I was going to get crushed and he still claimed to love the character of Sara-and I don't think he should have told me but HE STILL KNEW).

Now I'm going to start doing that thing I do when I lose interest/stop trusting shows: read everyone's reactions first and then decide if I'm going to watch. At least LazarusPit is trending on Twitter, so we're not alone in our reactions.

And the crazy thing is that this was a good episode! I was fine with Laurel and would have been happy with this version for the series. Everything with Oliver, Felicity, and Diggle was great and I was ready to get into the Hong Kong story. I should have known it was going to shit when Laurel did that same "I get to be Black Canary" grin from the finale and then Sara was sacrificed to prop her.

The gifs are amusing though and I wish I had the ability to make them.

I was hoping to be able to say "damn you Berlanti!" like in the old days of Everwood but, that is always said with affection and in response to something amazing. I will not do that here cause it still has good associations but I was tempted. How many more female characters are going to be killed off? Does this mean Thea's next? Does Felicity get the axe so that Oliver will start dating Laurel again? Laurel's in no danger since Sara was just sacrificed to prop her story but all the others are pretty much walking targets and it's gross.

[foreverevolving]

Yeah, I had that thought awhile back, probably when SDCC started, they did a compromise and Sara fans (like me, Abhi and Sakura) got screwed. Although, I'm and Olicity fan so I didn't get screwed as much as they did.

oh oh *jumps in her seat, raising hand in the air*

i'm a Sara fan too!

 

BTW: i'm not in the slight sorry for my gifs attack tonight. i'm too emotionally messed up to be able to properly express myself without them. which is a new thing FYI.

[tessaray]

Wow.  Glad I came here before sitting down to watch the premiere on dvr.  I'm officially done now.  It's kind of a relief, I guess.

 

I have to admit that the EPs are kind of brilliant.  The Olicity fans have just enough to keep going, the comic fans have all the other stuff and the Sara/BC fans now have to STFU or quit  watching but at least for them it's over.