S03.E01: The Calm

[slayer2]

Russia is probably going to be featured in Season Four)

He was in Russia too? Geez he gets around. Sign me up as one who agrees the line about the radio was purposeful.This writer on her youtube tutorials says that every line should either tell you something about the character or further the plot, so in that context it makes sense that it wouldn't be a throwaway line. Plus we have yet to meet the big bad or big bass.

Edited October 10, 2014 by slayer2

[apinknightmare]

He was in Russia too? Geez he gets around. Sign me up as one who agrees the line about the radio was purposeful.

 

Yeah, it was definitely purposeful, and I honestly can't believe with how smart Felicity is that she hasn't thought of that already. I know she can't be on top of everything, but damn. I wonder if the open comms issue is going to come up in Felicity's episode and that's why they originally named it Oracle? Like maybe they planned on giving her that codename as an Easter egg but thought better of it after the reaction at ComicCon and the expectations that would come along with it?

Edited October 10, 2014 by apinknightmare

[KirkB]

For the record I watched the scene of Sara's fall again and while I do agree it was pretty much just for the purpose of advancing Laurel and hurting her and Oliver, I have to point out something (minor, but still). Sara's mask does NOT fall at Laurel's feet. Sara's body hits the ground and the mask falls off, landing on the other side of where Laurel is. In other words, Sara's body is between the mask and Laurel. This does not make the scene any easier to handle of course, and I think Sara hitting the dumpster first is a far worse offense, but IMO the mask itself is pretty much a non-issue.

[slayer2]

Yeah, it was definitely purposeful, and I honestly can't believe with how smart Felicity is that she hasn't thought of that already. I know she can't be on top of everything, but damn. I wonder if the open comms issue is going to come up in Felicity's episode and that's why they originally named it Oracle? Like maybe they planned on giving her that codename as an Easter egg but thought better of it after the reaction at ComicCon and the expectations that would come along with it?

What do you make of Ollie calling her Felicity over the comm? I know he was excited for the date but damn, can't we get her a codename? Oracle? Watchtower? Something?

ETA Just realized you answered my question. I got excited at the word Oracle and blacked out. There's an episode called Oracle coming up? Do you think she might be Jim Gordon's daughter and they changed it to throw people off? She really does need a codename though.

Edited October 10, 2014 by slayer2

[apinknightmare]

Also, I know that trying to find reason in Oliver's reasons is a fool's crusade, but saying he didn't realize a tracker had been put on him because he was distracted, like...how would he ever know that even if he was paying attention? Anytime someone touches him in a fight they could plant something on him. Does he usually give himself a security pat down before he heads back to the foundry after every mission?

[dtissagirl]

ETA Just realized you answered my question. I got excited at the word Oracle and blacked out. There's an episode called Oracle coming up? Do you think she might be Jim Gordon's daughter?

 

No. They announced 3x05 would be called "Oracle" at SDCC, but they changed it to "The Secret Origin of Felicity Smoak" afterwards. Nobody knows why. Well, the TPTB do, but they never really explained.

 

 

This does not make the scene any easier to handle of course, and I think Sara hitting the dumpster first is a far worse offense, but IMO the mask itself is pretty much a non-issue.

 

I disagree -- the fact that they had the mask fall off from her face, and they added a close-up of the mask on the floor tells me it's symbolic. Especially in the same episode Sara tells Oliver they need people in their lives who do not wear masks.

Edited October 10, 2014 by dancingnancy

[apinknightmare]

What do you make of Ollie calling her Felicity over the comm? I know he was excited for the date but damn, can't we get her a codename? Oracle? Watchtower? Something?

ETA Just realized you answered my question. I got excited at the word Oracle and blacked out. There's an episode called Oracle coming up? Do you think she might be Jim Gordon's daughter and they changed it to throw people off? She really does need a codename though.

 

They all call each other by their real names on the comms, like a bunch of boneheads. Felicity's the brains of that operation, come on, girl.

 

Felicity's episode (3x05) was called Oracle, but they changed the name to The Secret Origin of Felicity Smoak. I thought maybe the codename issue might come up in that ep and that the EPs might have at one point wanted to call her Oracle just as a nod to comics fans, but maybe decided against it (hence the name change). But I think the codename issue is definitely going to come up. I wonder if they'll get wise and take Sara's (RIP) advice preemptively or if they have to because someone overhears them.

Edited October 10, 2014 by apinknightmare

[Carrie Ann]

(In reference to Oliver having scotch at dinner:)

 

Oh!  I just caught the significance.  Oliver never drinks.

 

To clarify, Oliver does drink, sometimes (examples off the top of my head: vodka with Diggle, vodka with Isabel in Russia, vodka with Isabel at the Queen mansion party). It's Stephen Amell who believes that Oliver wouldn't drink and he said he fights the producers on that sometimes.

 

While I understand Oliver not wanting to put other people at risk, it's not his place to decide for Diggle or Felicity or anyone on Team Arrow. They are all adults with free will so they should be allowed to decide for themselves if they want to risk their lives for each mission.

 

This is driving me crazy. Seriously, Oliver, this is "your" crusade? Diggle and Felicity (and Roy, and everyone) aren't your partners anymore? I wouldn't even care if Oliver said that, if Diggle hadn't validated it in the end. Not that I think it's going to last, but the end of this season better be Oliver realizing that he's not actually the center of everyone else's universe.

Edited October 10, 2014 by Carrie Ann

[slayer2]

Also, I know that trying to find reason in Oliver's reasons is a fool's crusade, but saying he didn't realize a tracker had been put on him because he was distracted, like...how would he ever know that even if he was paying attention? Anytime someone touches him in a fight they could plant something on him. Does he usually give himself a security pat down before he heads back to the foundry after every mission?

Ollie is always blaming himself for things that no human can possibly control. I think he holds himself accountable as if he were Superman because he def acts as though he should have super-hearing and super strength. I think that accounts for a lot of his behaviour this episode. He feels like he has a lot to atone for and he I think he sees himself as Arrow more than Oliver Queen (as I guess this episode proved). IMO it seems like he is suffering from survivor's guilt. He reminds me so much of Angel. I'm so obsessed with that show clearly.

[apinknightmare]

Ollie is always blaming himself for things that no human can possibly control. I think he holds himself accountable as if he were Superman because he def acts as though he should have super-hearing and super strength. I think that accounts for a lot of his behaviour this episode. He feels like he has a lot to atone for and he I think he sees himself as Arrow more than Oliver Queen (as I guess this episode proved). IMO it seems like he is suffering from survivor's guilt. He reminds me so much of Angel. I'm so obsessed with that show clearly.

 

Yeah, I think he has a lot of emotional and psychological issues that account for his belief that he doesn't deserve happiness and his continued self-preservation by pushing that happiness away, because he knows how to operate in an emotion-free zone - the attachments are what's difficult. I guess I didn't express myself well, I was actually just wondering if he did search himself for bugs and trackers, since...yeah, anyone could do that.

[slayer2]

That would be good practice, but since he can't even seem to sort out codenames I wonder at his efficiency in that area. Seems like Diggle would be more adept at that since he has the army (?) training.

Agreed about Ollie, poor dude needs lots of therapy.

Edited October 10, 2014 by slayer2

[Password]

He called it his crusade especially after calling Felicity and Diggle his partners. (I know he called Dig that somewhere and I can't remember)

He has his head very very far up his behind. He should entirely push everyone away if it's just his crusade. Hmph the more I think about it the more it annoys me because I thought he got over this hill in season 2. He even said to Laurel it started with the 3 of them...now it's his crusade.

I wonder if they'd ever put him in therapy on the show. He carries his guilt with him everywhere. This season really needs to focus on growing Oliver Queen. Pleeeeease.

[KirkB]

I disagree -- the fact that they had the mask fall off from her face, and they added a close-up of the mask on the floor tells me it's symbolic. Especially in the same episode Sara tells Oliver they need people in their lives who do not wear masks.

 

Which is true, and you may well be right, but if it was intended to have the symbolism some people think it was it should have actually landed at Laurel's feet as a more macabre passing of the torch than the jacket.

[GirlWednesday]

Regarding Oliver drinking - i interpreted that as an Oliver queen move. Arrow does not drink. The whole episode was about Oliver getting comfortable with being arrow and working on making Oliver queen happy as well. He has always been like this. To survive, he shuts down and focuses on one thing. Stepping back from Felicity was totally in character because to him, he's not good for her and he needs to stay focussed or people (Felicity) get hurt.

Last season he tried so hard to destroy Slade and lost everything. He realized that he wanted to be a hero and save rather than act with vengeance. After this episode where he has "fired" his confidant and comrade and dropped Felicity as his girl. He has isolated himself again on an island. I hope it's not for Oliver and Laurel show of avenging Angels.

[slayer2]

Good insights regarding Oliver Queen and the scotch. I think he really does view himself as two completely different people.

[Guest]

Just some rewatch thoughts:

 

1) Will we see Captain Lance knocking back pills every time he's on screen now? Does medication need to be taken that often? I get it, he's sick. I don't need to be reminded constantly.

 

2) SA really had some nice nuances in the Olicity scenes. The rough way he said "Don't ask me to say that I don't love you" and the way his hands lingered in the air after Felicity was gone really showed how broken he felt. Loved it.

 

3) I thought it was pretty strange how subdued Roy and Diggle were when Oliver carried a bloody and unconscious Felicity into the foundry. You'd think they'd be more shocked or worried. I expected more of a reaction there. I feel like this is due to too much being crammed into the episode. Ordinarily I think there would be a scene where Oliver calls Diggle and says he's bringing Felicity in and she's hurt or whatever but it was cut for time so the result is just really choppy.

 

4) Roy's suit is awesome but he kind of looks like a kid playing dress-up and I'm still annoyed that we don't get to see on screen how he came to be wearing it. Things like this make me hate the five month time jump.

 

5) First impressions: I really don't like Ray. He's so arrogant and came across a little stalkerish for my liking. When he and Felicity were talking about hacking I totally switched off because I didn't understand a word they were saying. I hope that's not what we have to listen to for the next 15 episodes. 

 

6) Diggle thanking Oliver and telling him he was right still feels OOC with everything we know about him.

 

7) Laurel's "Did I say that too loud?' line felt like a Felicity line to me.

Edited October 10, 2014 by Guest

[ohjoy]

For the record I watched the scene of Sara's fall again and while I do agree it was pretty much just for the purpose of advancing Laurel and hurting her and Oliver, I have to point out something (minor, but still). Sara's mask does NOT fall at Laurel's feet. Sara's body hits the ground and the mask falls off, landing on the other side of where Laurel is. In other words, Sara's body is between the mask and Laurel. This does not make the scene any easier to handle of course, and I think Sara hitting the dumpster first is a far worse offense, but IMO the mask itself is pretty much a non-issue.

I don't know about non-issue, but it's pretty much the same issue: instead of the symbolism of the mask falling off Sarah and landing at Laurel's feet, we have the symbolism of the only thing between Laurel and the mask being Sarah's prone body. Neither one of those is really appropriate. Should have just left the mask alone, guys.

[KenyaJ]

I wonder if they'd ever put him in therapy on the show.

And now I desperately want a show about a therapist to superheroes.

[apinknightmare]

6) Diggle thanking Oliver and telling him he was right still feels OOC with everything we know about him.

 

 

I actually don't have a problem with him saying this (apart from it validating Oliver's idiocy). It is kind of OOC, but the man is just getting used to life as a father. Not that I have any practical experience to base this opinion on, but I imagine that impending fatherhood is kind of an abstract thing that's difficult to get your mind around. Men aren't the pregnant ones, they're just sort of a spectator in a lot of ways until the baby is actually born. So I buy that Diggle, who has just met his daughter for the first time, would have the kind of reaction he did and would tell Oliver that he was right. It's probably difficult to look at your newborn child and even fathom doing something that would cause you to not be there to see them grow up.

 

I guess that's Diggle's identity issue for this season. It'll be difficult for him to go against his nature in order to have a "safe," normal life. He and Lyla are always in the thick of it, which I really enjoy about them. I hope that's explored - doing what they do and still being parents.

 

Also - what's Digg doing to earn a living? Or is he going to be a stay-at-home dad while Lyla kicks ass at A.R.G.U.S.?

[Morrigan2575]

I don't know about non-issue, but it's pretty much the same issue: instead of the symbolism of the mask falling off Sarah and landing at Laurel's feet, we have the symbolism of the only thing between Laurel and the mask being Sarah's prone body. Neither one of those is really appropriate. Should have just left the mask alone, guys.

Wow, that's a depressing and painful thought.

[apinknightmare]

And now I desperately want a show about a therapist to superheroes.

 

It'd be a real bitch to schedule their appointments. "Doc? Sorry, I'm gonna be late. I got held up. Literally."

[doesntworkonwood]

And now I desperately want a show about a therapist to superheroes.

 

I actually had an idea about a spin off from Arrow about this a while ago. 

 

It would have been called 'Couples Therapy', and starred Sara and Nyssa going to see a therapist, in an attempt to help Nyssa understand that kidnapping and attempting to murder your girlfriends mum wasn't the appropriate response to her leaving. They would have had to try and explain what had happened to them that week, without divulging that they'd been on international LOA missions (because they didn't want to go to an official LOA therapist because Ra's would have been on their back). It would have been hilarious. 

 

Suffice to say, I'm quite annoyed that there isn't even a chance of this happening now. 

[Guest]

I actually don't have a problem with him saying this (apart from it validating Oliver's idiocy). It is kind of OOC, but the man is just getting used to life as a father. Not that I have any practical experience to base this opinion on, but I imagine that impending fatherhood is kind of an abstract thing that's difficult to get your mind around. Men aren't the pregnant ones, they're just sort of a spectator in a lot of ways until the baby is actually born. So I buy that Diggle, who has just met his daughter for the first time, would have the kind of reaction he did and would tell Oliver that he was right. It's probably difficult to look at your newborn child and even fathom doing something that would cause you to not be there to see them grow up.

 

I guess that's Diggle's identity issue for this season. It'll be difficult for him to go against his nature in order to have a "safe," normal life. He and Lyla are always in the thick of it, which I really enjoy about them. I hope that's explored - doing what they do and still being parents.

 

Also - what's Digg doing to earn a living? Or is he going to be a stay-at-home dad while Lyla kicks ass at A.R.G.U.S.?

 

Yeah, my initial thought after the episode was that I could chalk it up to him being a new father and experiencing the new emotions running high but it still felt really jarring, even on rewatch. I just felt like he gave in too easily and proving Oliver right was the last thing that was needed in that moment. But I suppose that's what gave Oliver the final push to end things with Felicity.

 

I'm all for Diggle questioning his identity and finding balance but he always struck me as the kind of guy who had already figured that out. He believes that you can have a life and do the job they do - he's told Oliver that more than once - so I really don't think Diggle needs a season to figure out things that he's known all along. I don't know. I just love Diggle on the team so much that I don't like the thought of Team Arrow being compromised. 

 

I think Diggle is going to be working with A.R.G.U.S. At least that's my impression from a couple of DR interviews during the hiatus.

[writersblock51]

Considering how insightful Tony Soprano's (certainly NOT a superhero) sessions on "The Sopranos" proved to be, as well as the relationship with his therapist, I could definitely see a bit of therapy in Oliver's future on the show.  Maybe a 2-3 minute scene where he talks about ... well... pretty much anything. It may be pure exposition but, done right, could be interesting.

 

Some of the more interesting scenes on "Monk" where when he was talking with his psychiatrist(s).

 

And I think Oliver needs a LOT of therapy.  He might not be Monk like in OCD but the boy has a full subscription of issues going on. Thea could use some help, too.

 

Diggle acting OOC this episode - yeah, but I also put that down to impending parenthood.  He admitted, jokingly (but with some seriousness, too, I'm sure), to Lyla that he was terrified.  Parenthood, especially as a first timer, is all sorts of stuff coming at you at once - "terrifying" can definitely be applied.

 

Also - he and Oliver hugged.  No way was that happening in S1.

Edited October 10, 2014 by writersblock51

[foreverevolving]

May I add BSC as in Bull Shit Canary to the list?   It’s just so easy to tap out.

 

On the Kubler-Ross model of grief I am still circling back again and again to anger. 

Yes.

 

oh give a day. i'm moving between near crying to indifference to slight anger and round and round the marigold goes..

 

I disagree. I think he would surveil the shit out of her. And I also don't think lines like that one from Sara are placed in eps for no reason. The writers wanted us to know that her comms lines are vulnerable. The only reason for that to be important is because someone else is listening other than Sara.

Malcolm maybe?

 

To be fair, no one is as charming as Cary Grant.  :D

George Clooney. nuff` said.

 

Suffice to say, I'm quite annoyed that there isn't even a chance of this happening now.

 

Fanfiction!!

Edited October 10, 2014 by foreverevolving

[apinknightmare]

Malcolm maybe?

 

Given there's a tech mogul on the show now, it's probably Ray.

[TanyaKay]

someone linked to Sepinwall's review of The Calm in another thread and I found this bit hilarious  

 

Brandon Routh, pops up as Ray Palmer, here reimagined as a tech sector corporate raider who may really have the company and city's best interests at heart, or may just be a d-bag who likes to say "BTW," even though it's more syllables than "by the way."

 

 

I was so happy when Felicity turns his btw back at him and told him that he needs to check his tablet (probably for more porcupine flatulence).

To his credit, Ray Palmer seemed more impressed than anything at that, but then Ms Smoak has this thing where people who come in contact with her get Smoaked.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

And now I desperately want a show about a therapist to superheroes.

Superman: I know I AM actually super, but dude, I can't be everywhere at the same time. Sometimes I wish these humans could learn to be a little more self sufficient when it comes to crime fighting. I'm exhausted!

Wonder Woman: Sometimes I worry that as I am flying overhead in my invisible jet, someone will look up and just see my butt. That's really not a flattering angle for anyone. The superheroes who can fly never have to worry about this!

Oliver Queen: I have A LOT of issues. I don't think you have enough time to hear them all. Also I don't trust you to keep my secret and someone else needs to be saves right this very minute so let me think about this and I'll call you next week if I want to reschedule.

[BkWurm1]

Wonder Woman: Sometimes I worry that as I am flying overhead in my invisible jet, someone will look up and just see my butt. That's really not a flattering angle for anyone. The superheroes who can fly never have to worry about this!

 

Haven't you heard?  Apparently Wonder Woman can fly these days.  She just keeps the jet around for fun. 

 

In regards to Oliver drinking.  I like the idea that he was inching toward Oliver but I also like the idea that the date was such a big deal that he really, really needed it. 

 

I like to think that he only drinks with meaning or purpose behind it.  Sharing a toast with Diggle is meaningful.  Being in Russia and trying to soften up Isabel, is purposeful.  Sipping a drink Sara has concocted - just a taste test.  I can handle that. 

 

...how would he ever know that even if he was paying attention? Anytime someone touches him in a fight they could plant something on him

 

Sounds like they need to come up with some kind of sweeper or scanner and if they are really worried, they'd do their looking far away from home. 

 

 

In regards to Diggle agreeing with Oliver.  Well, he agrees that he should stay out of the field as a new father but he never agreed that Oliver is justified in still claiming this is just his mission. 

 

At first when Diggle thanked him, I thought it was because has he been out in the field he wouldn't have been there to take Lyla in to the hospital.  Actually he had no business not staying home with her in that late stage of her pregnancy but I suppose Lyla is probably just as stubborn as the rest of them. 

Edited October 10, 2014 by BkWurm1

[SleepDeprived]

Batman in therapy:

 

 

6) Diggle thanking Oliver and telling him he was right still feels OOC with everything we know about him.

 

7) Laurel's "Did I say that too loud?' line felt like a Felicity line to me.

 

On Diggle: It did feel OOC to me, as well. Then again, I'm not a parent. I was very surprised when he told Oliver he was right about keeping him out of field work. At the very least, I would've wanted Diggle to reiterate that staying away from the field, because of his Digglet, is his decision not Oliver's. That this crusade is theirs, not solely Oliver's. Maybe we'll get that in upcoming episodes.

 

On Laurel: That did feel off to me, too. It didn't seem like something that Laurel would say? Or maybe it was the line delivery that made me go 'huh'. It felt practiced rather than a sudden realization of a faux pas.

 

Also - what's Digg doing to earn a living? Or is he going to be a stay-at-home dad while Lyla kicks ass at A.R.G.U.S.?

 

He invested that $1M Oliver left for them as severance at the end of S1, probably. Not that I expect the writers to even remember that detail they put in the comics or to be concerned about anything regarding the financial situations of the characters, other than to play it off for laughs and contrived drama. But I would love to see stay-at-home Daddy Diggle. Preferably wearing only a tank top while carrying the Digglet around.

Edited October 10, 2014 by SleepDeprived

[apinknightmare]

But I would love to see stay-at-home Daddy Diggle. Preferably wearing only a tank top while carrying the Digglet around.

 

YEAH

 

Also, we should probably call her Digglette. ;)

Edited October 10, 2014 by apinknightmare

[KirkB]

Digglette Diggle? That's a mouthful.

[foreverevolving]

BTW!! regarding Oliver's glass of scotch. this is a full on rant written by a pastry student who is taking a sommelier minor and loves scotch! so i know my shit.

 

it is so obvious that who ever wrote this episode has no knowledge of scotch. because no way a man like Oliver who grew up around wealthy people and probably a father who enjoyed drinking the fine fine stuff (because dude man was able to afford it) will just order "scotch".

Nope!, even with the island, Oliver had years of booze drinking behind him. he would have drunk the good stuff, he would have, if not a specific preference, at least basic knowledge of the good brands vs. the lesser goods. he would order a specific brand.

 

ETA: why am i returning to rant? because most people who don't know shit about alcohol would never say Scotch, they will say Whiskey (thinking it means the same- it doesn't! but that's for a different convo), and would probably order something like J&B or Johnny Walker or if they think themselves knowledgable Black Label, cause they recognize the brand name. kind of like ordering Absolute or Smirnoff when you order vodka (if you do, please stop there are better brands out there to drink straight up: Belvedere for example. the other two are really only good for a cocktail and even that's debatable in my opinion)

 

Okay, rant over.

excuse while i go and enjoy me some Glenlivet 12- straight up- (cause i'm still a poor college student and i can't afford the glenlivet 18 or older :-(

Edited October 10, 2014 by foreverevolving

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Haven't you heard? Apparently Wonder Woman can fly these days. She just keeps the jet around for fun.

Nope, I had no idea but all my knowledge of Wonder Woman comes from watching the Saturday morning super friends cartoons and the Lynda Carter show.

[Shanna]

Lol. So does that mean this character is from the actual comics?

[Kromm]

Lol. So does that mean this character is from the actual comics?

Ray Palmer is a fairly big DC Comics character, actually.  Not first tier like Bruce Wayne, Clark Kent, etc. but before they got TV shows of their own in the past few years and got contemporary boosts, he'd easily have been be labeled as on a similar tier at DC as Oliver Queen and Barry Allen were (maybe a hair below those two, at most, but not by much--and mostly because he only started during what in comics is called The Silver Age, whereas those others are from the earlier Golden Age).  So call him high third tier of DC characters, maybe--out of the thousands of characters they've had over the years he probably lands somewhere in the top 30.

Edited October 11, 2014 by Kromm

[quarks]

Well, technically, Flash is from the Golden Age. He was just called Jay Garrick back then. If Wikipedia is right Jay Garrick started back in 1940, the same year Batman did.  Green Arrow started only a little bit later, in 1941.

 

Neither of them ever reached Superman/Batman levels of popularity, though.

[KirkB]

The Atom is a consistently popular character within the comics. The JLA, along with individually everyone from Superman to the fricking Batman have come to Ray Palmer for help from time to time.

[Kromm]

Well, technically, Flash is from the Golden Age. 

I didn't say he wasn't.  I was talking about Ray Palmer as being from the Silver Age.  Which actually makes the whole paragraph I did a bit incorrect in a different sense from your correction, since Barry Allen is also Silver Age (whereas as you say, The Flash as a whole idea isn't but instead was a different person).

Edited October 11, 2014 by Kromm

[quarks]

Whoops, misunderstood you - I thought you were identifying all three as Silver Age characters as opposed to Golden Age characters. My bad!

[Sunshine]

I was just rewatching...When Felicity went to the hospital and saw Lyla, Diggle and the baby did she say she was jealous right after commenting on the digglette?  I rewound it a couple of times but I couldn't quite make it out.

[HighHopes]

I was just rewatching...When Felicity went to the hospital and saw Lyla, Diggle and the baby did she say she was jealous right after commenting on the digglette?  I rewound it a couple of times but I couldn't quite make it out.

I believe (if I'm remembering the scene you are talking about correctly) that she says "she's scrumptious guys, seriously". 

Edited October 11, 2014 by HighHopes

[Sunshine]

I believe (if I'm remembering the scene you are talking about correctly) that she says "she's scrumptious guys, seriously". 

Thanks.  Like I said I couldn't make it out but that seemed like a strange thing for her to say so I figured I had misunderstood.

[Moya the Leviathan]

Snip:

Oliver Queen: I have A LOT of issues. I don't think you have enough time to hear them all. Also I don't trust you to keep my secret and someone else needs to be saves right this very minute so let me think about this and I'll call you next week if I want to reschedule.

What aare you talking about? You are THE ARROW!  My God, PULL YOURSELF TOGETHER. Is this a question? You will show her you remember that she is the remarkable Felicity Smoak.  Go, confront the problem. FIGHT! WIN!   ....and call me when you get back, darling. I enjoy our visits.   

[apinknightmare]

Thanks.  Like I said I couldn't make it out but that seemed like a strange thing for her to say so I figured I had misunderstood.

 

Not because I've watched this scene an embarrassing number of times or anything. She says, "She's scrumptious. Mazel tov, guys. Seriously."

[wonderwall]

What are you talking about? You are THE ARROW!  My God, PULL YOURSELF TOGETHER. Is this a question? You will show her you remember that she is the remarkable Felicity Smoak.  Go, confront the problem. FIGHT! WIN!   ....and call me when you get back, darling. I enjoy our visits.   

You literally sound like Edna Mode from the Incredibles. I SO ADORE YOU RIGHT NOW. 

[JenMD]

3) I thought it was pretty strange how subdued Roy and Diggle were when Oliver carried a bloody and unconscious Felicity into the foundry. You'd think they'd be more shocked or worried. I expected more of a reaction there. I feel like this is due to too much being crammed into the episode.

 

Yeah, the whole post-bomb scene was underwhelming for me.  It may have been the 10 weeks of rampant spec about the what/when/why/how of how Felicity came to be all bloodied that followed from when the image first hit.  Is it a hallucination?  Is it real?  If it's real, why is she back at the foundry?  Why does she appear unhurt in other photos?  Etc.  Endless spec and mountains of fic.  And ultimately, they just glossed over it almost entirely.  They're consistent in their lack of continuity, pacing and filling in the blanks, I'll give them that.  They were great at it last season and the trend continues.

 

How did Oliver get Felicity back to the foundry?  Did he squeeze in her car after digging through the rubble for her keys?  'Cause he ziplined his green self to the restaurant.  Did he drive to the restaurant before the mission, planning on being late?  Also, did he earn his medical degree during his 5 years away that he was able to diagnose her with just being "knocked out"?  And is that not concerning that she was unconscious?  I mean, the girl just keeps getting head injuries and bouncing right back.  Does she have a titanium skull?  Where'd the blood come from if it wasn't hers?  Because there wasn't a scratch on her later.  Why were neither Roy or Diggle concerned about all that blood?  Neither one made a move to clean her up or check her out.  (And, not important, but where'd her shoes go?  She was wearing ankle strap shoes that zipped up the back (thank you ArrowFashionBlog), not the type of shoes to fall off easily.)

 

But that's not all, what followed was equally confusing.  Oliver leaves a bloody, unconscious Felicity and the next time he sees her is the next morning?  Just how long did fighting himself take?  And everybody just went home, showered and changed in the mean time?  Oliver strolls into the foundry, getting dressed in his business suit like the last time he saw Felicity she wasn't bloody, unconscious and shoeless laying on a table and he asks about Lance first?  Really?  He didn't come back and immediately check on her before going to shower and change for the meeting with the board that they never actually prepared for because they went on the date instead? (Not that I blame them.)  It was just all so weirdly staged and made no sense to me. 

 

And how about Lyla conveniently going into a labor just when Oliver kicks Diggle out of the field (or off the team, whatever the interpretation)? Again, really? I know I'm certainly not the first, or tenth, to complain about them stuffing too much in this ep, but they stuffed too much in this ep.  It's like they were checking boxes of all the things they wanted to get done and damn anything that didn't make sense or flow naturally. 

 

People have already said, much more eloquently, how awful killing Sara was, the why and the how, so I'll just add I hated it.

 

I did love all the Olicity, despite being spoiled to the gills with it and I had stepped out of the spoiler thread by Friday, when the clip was released, but still was spoiled other places.  They really need to calm down with the promos, man.  But it was still lovely, heartbreaking, funny, sweet, everything.  SA and EBR killed it all and I'm looking forward, with the dread and hope that any shipper has, to how they'll proceed.

 

I didn't hate Ray, but I didn't particularly care for him either (BR doesn't do anything for me).  Too smarmy, just a bit too everything.  Not sure if it was how Ray was supposed to come off or just BR being a bit too over the top, but I hope it gets toned down a bit since we're stuck with him for a while.  I don't read comics, so any importance his comic persona has doesn't resonate with me.

 

Overall, the ending really killed this ep, but the weirdly rushed pacing and lack of continuity certainly didn't help.  I will admit though that, once I stopped hysterically babbling "what do you mean they killed Sara??", I did eventually manage to rewatch all the Olicity bits and just loved them all over again, so there's that for me, at least.  At the rate they're going, they'll probably screw it up, but I'll be here until they do.

Edited October 11, 2014 by JenMD

[Happy Harpy]

 

7) Laurel's "Did I say that too loud?' line felt like a Felicity line to me.

Yeah, it's one of the first things I noticed.

I had already the feeling that Barry/G.Gustin adopted several of Felicity's/EBR's mannerisms during his stint on Arrow...I thought it was particularly obvious in the introduction scene, imo.

It's as if the writers not only use Felicity to endear some characters to the audience, but try to make those characters like Felicity. Because it worked so well and they have no idea how it did, so they just try to replicate. Unfortunately...

 

On Laurel: That did feel off to me, too. It didn't seem like something that Laurel would say? Or maybe it was the line delivery that made me go 'huh'. It felt practiced rather than a sudden realization of a faux pas.

There's no recipe, and no one knows how it works, because it's called "magic" (the magic of television). It works for Felicity imo because there's a complete adequation between the (great) character they created in Felicity Smoak, and EBR's (great) acting. It worked imo with Barry because he was written as self-deprecating, and because G.Gustin brought some freshness in his performance.

Self-deprecating doesn't work with Laurel, and it doesn't work with K.Cassidy's acting in the role either, imo. The combination gives off too much of a haughty vibe for it to sound natural, imo, so I was left frowning instead of laughing.

Edited October 11, 2014 by Happy Harpy

[Moya the Leviathan]

You literally sound like Edna Mode from the Incredibles. I SO ADORE YOU RIGHT NOW. 

There is NO part of The Calm that can't be improved with some dialog from Edna or other folks from The Incredibles.  

 

Watching Roy in his new Arsenal uniform?  "Yes, yes, marvelous suit, darling, much better than those horrible pajamas he used to wear."

 

Introduction of the Diglet?  " I didn't know the baby's powers, so I covered the basics." Or  "Completely bulletproof... and machine-washable. That's a new feature."

 

Sara's death:  "Stratogirl! April 23rd, '57! Cape caught in a jet turbine!"

 

Vertigo explaining his drug knockoff?  "He starts monologuing!"

[Shanna]

Thanks for all the info about Ray guys. I am if course wondering if he will go evil, like Isabelle and Brandon's character on Chuck, but if he's a major character maybe not so much.

And they should totally do a therapy web series. That would be hysterical. Oliver seriously should have been in therapy post island. Moira dropped the ball there.

Oh! I did want to say I liked the touch that Oliver was sleeping on the floor. Nice post island nod.