Dean

[HeySandyStrange]

While I kind of would've liked Lorelai to have been more upfront with Dean about what was going on with the attraction between Rory and Jess, I can see why she didn't. Ultimately her loyalty was to her daughter, and as much as she might've felt for Dean's position I don't see her interfering. I think she would have felt too much like Emily, in that she was being the nosy, controlling mother. Though honestly, that was one of the times she could have dropped the BFF bit and given Rory a kick in her wishy-washy pants about stringing along a guy when she was basically chasing another one.

[Artsda]

I thought Lorelai did give Rory a yelling at about her behavior during that period with Jess/Dean, before Dean had the "she likes Jess" revelation didn't Lorelai yell at her about how she was treating Dean and that he didn't deserve it?

 

Maybe it was the same gift basket time or before she went off to DC?

Edited March 28, 2015 by Artsda

[solotrek]

She told Rory that she was officially treating Dean like crap after Rory came back from DC. I'll always remember that scene because it had the lazy hazy crazy days of summer song in the background, which got annoying after the 2nd rewatch.

[Aloeonatable]

Rory vowed several times to make it right with Dean. Yet, she couldn't stay away from Jess or hide her real feelings. She said so the night of her mother's graduation from business school. Rory said so after seeing Jess with Shane when when she returned from DC. 

[slf]

I disliked Dean from the first moment we met, honestly. Rory had dropped a bunch of books and was crouched down picking them up when he walked up to her and just stood there. Quietly. Watching her. While she cracked her Rosemary's baby joke I remember thinking, "What an ass, who just stands there?" Even if it's someone I dislike, I help them pick up their stuff (cause that makes me look better, lol).

 

There was always something, every few episodes. I remember when she first invited him over and was showing him around her room he picked up a stuffed rooster she had and kind of mocked her with it. She was obviously very uncomfortable and ushered him out of her room. Or during the dance episode when she dropped her bag? She explained she had brought a book and he mocked that, too, despite knowing how much she loves to read. Or when he got mad that she wanted to study instead of coming to his baseball game and he actually suggested that she study in the stands? I didn't find his nice gestures to be all that nice. I thought calling her fifteen times a day was creepy and the car was inappropriate. Watching someone browse for a couple of hours is weird, not cute.

 

There was something almost Laurie-ish about him; I felt like he thought he belonged with Rory more at least in part because he fit in with her and Lorelai better and Lorelai liked him. I found his conversations with Lorelai post-breakup to be inappropriate for the most part. Not that I think Lorelai should've been rude, just that it seemed to encouraged him.

 

I disliked where they went with a lot of the characters because while the show was very sarcastic and some of the characters were cynical, the show did have a fairytale element to it. Even though I think a lot of Dean's decisions made sense given his upbringing and his ideas about family I still think they kind of humiliated him and broke him down a bit. Having him and Rory break up a second time like they did, having his living at home while working two jobs (with that sad facial hair) was just embarrassing to watch. They could have given him a more dignified end.

 

Lindsey was Dean's rebound. He realized he had to move on from Rory and to him the best way was with another girl. Marrying her was just an attempt to prove to himself that he was over Rory.

 

Given that he proposed to Lindsey almost immediately after the fight with Jess I always just assumed he did it to prove to her that he wasn't in love with Rory. I wondered if it was even planned given his manic announcement to Rory, all "I AM GETTING MARRIED ISN'T THAT GREAT? IT'S SO AWESOME I CANNOT BELIEVE IT AREN'T YOU HAPPY FOR ME?!"

Edited March 28, 2015 by slf

[readster]

I disliked Dean from the first moment we met, honestly. Rory had dropped a bunch of books and was crouched down picking them up when he walked up to her and just stood there. Quietly. Watching her. While she cracked her Rosemary's baby joke I remember thinking, "What an ass, who just stands there?" Even if it's someone I dislike, I help them pick up their stuff (cause that makes me look better, lol).

 

There was always something, every few episodes. I remember when she first invited him over and was showing him around her room he picked up a stuffed rooster she had and kind of mocked her with it. She was obviously very uncomfortable and ushered him out of her room. Or during the dance episode when she dropped her bag? She explained she had brought a book and he mocked that, too, despite knowing how much she loves to read. Or when he got mad that she wanted to study instead of coming to his baseball game and he actually suggested that she study in the stands? I didn't find his nice gestures to be all that nice. I thought calling her fifteen times a day was creepy and the car was inappropriate. Watching someone browse for a couple of hours is weird, not cute.

 

There was something almost Laurie-ish about him; I felt like he thought he belonged with Rory more at least in part because he fit in with her and Lorelai better and Lorelai liked him. I found his conversations with Lorelai post-breakup to be inappropriate for the most part. Not that I think Lorelai should've been rude, just that it seemed to encouraged him.

 

I disliked where they went with a lot of the characters because while the show was very sarcastic and some of the characters were cynical, the show did have a fairytale element to it. Even though I think a lot of Dean's decisions made sense given his upbringing and his ideas about family I still think they kind of humiliated him and broke him down a bit. Having him and Rory break up a second time like they did, having his living at home while working two jobs (with that sad facial hair) was just embarrassing to watch. They could have given him a more dignified end.

 

 

Given that he proposed to Lindsey almost immediately after the fight with Jess I always just assumed he did it to prove to her that he wasn't in love with Rory. I wondered if it was even planned given his manic announcement to Rory, all "I AM GETTING MARRIED ISN'T THAT GREAT? IT'S SO AWESOME I CANNOT BELIEVE IT AREN'T YOU HAPPY FOR ME?!"

 

 Rory's face during that scene said it all because she was like: "Who are you and what have you done with Dean?" Which was all of our reactions after that. Yeah, I can see that he proposed to Lindsey after the fight to prove he wasn't still in love with Rory. However, Lindsey being the idiot she was all : *Swoon* 

[blueray]

 Rory's face during that scene said it all because she was like: "Who are you and what have you done with Dean?" Which was all of our reactions after that. Yeah, I can see that he proposed to Lindsey after the fight to prove he wasn't still in love with Rory. However, Lindsey being the idiot she was all : *Swoon* 

That's one think I never got. Why would she be so dumb not to realize he wasn't over Rory. They should have dated a lot longer before marrying.

[readster]

Yeah but remember, it was about making the plot work not logic.

[Anela]

That's one think I never got. Why would she be so dumb not to realize he wasn't over Rory. They should have dated a lot longer before marrying.

Some girls, and even grown women, gloss over things like that. I've witnessed it, although I'll never understand that and then the glares at the ex-girlfriend, as though she's the problem. 

[dustylil]

If an adult, well-educated woman like Nicole could marry (and then remain married to) Luke, ensorcelled as he was by Lorelai, then it was probably too much to expect young Lindsay to conduct herself any better.

The showrunners should have had Lindsay be pregnant (or at least think she was). That would have given some justification for the early marriage. Lord knows unplanned pregnancies were a dime a dozen in the series.

[readster]

If an adult, well-educated woman like Nicole could marry (and then remain married to) Luke, ensorcelled as he was by Lorelai, then it was probably too much to expect young Lindsay to conduct herself any better.

The showrunners should have had Lindsay be pregnant (or at least think she was). That would have given some justification for the early marriage. Lord knows unplanned pregnancies were a dime a dozen in the series.

 

 Yep and I could even seeing that be a better story line because it would have seen Dean come off as trapped and if you wanted to go further. Show Lorelai reflecting on what happened with her and Chris. That she felt trapped and did what she did but also knew that right there was why Chris and her didn't work. She felt he wasn't ready because said it best to Lorelai: "I guess this means we have to get married now." I still am shocked that they didn't force them to get married when Lorelai was still pregnang with Rory instead of waiting until after. In fact even when Lorelai took off with Rory it seemed that the idea of marriage between the two was an after thought. 

[JayInChicago]

This re-watch...I really hate Dean for some reason. It's intriguing that Lorelai likes him so much though in the first season, considering what will happen later...

[junienmomo]

This re-watch...I really hate Dean for some reason. It's intriguing that Lorelai likes him so much though in the first season, considering what will happen later...

 

You mean after plotting to kill him twice? LOL

S1 Dean was the perfect storybook boyfriend. Beautiful, kind, deeply in love. He built her a CAR for freakin' sake! A gift directly comparable to a chuppah, the GG gift of all gifts.

Yet when Jess had the accident, Dean forgave Rory and never brought up the car again. 

The stalkerish character who was later assassinated by the writers bore little resemblance to the Dean Lorelai loved for her daughter.

[JayInChicago]

Oh, my reasoning is much much more shallow and fluff-y. I just hate his hair.  

[Kohola3]

I never watched Supernatural but it was on this morning while I was puttering around.  The brothers were on a tour of a movie studio and the tour guide announced that they were "in Stars Hallow, where the Gilmore Girls is filmed".  I thought that was a pretty funny throwback.

[lottiedottie]

Jared's season 1 Matt Damon affectations have been bugging the shit out of me.

[amensisterfriend]

It's weird, but I never even loved S1 Dean. I'm pretty sure I never even LIKED s1 Dean, and I swear that I tried!  I don't see the assassination as nearly as extreme as most do because I kind of ALWAYS saw Dean as petulant, way too easily annoyed, jealous and temperamental and just generally unpleasant...not to mention boring :)  I also never quite got the 'Dean as great guy who parents would adore' thing---I thought Dean was actually really entitled and borderline rude even when he first went over to the Gilmores in Kiss and Tell and in numerous other instances as well, and can't imagine any parents---let alone one as stubbornly concerned with space and independence as Lorelai---being too gung ho about the way Dean would call a zillion or so times until she got home, get annoyed when she wasn't ready to drop prior plans and extracurricular activities just to hang out with him, etc.  I do agree that Dean's possessiveness and temper got worse as the series wore on, but for me the signs are pretty glaring even back in S1. I'll spare you the many examples that spring to my GG-obsessed mind, but suffice it to say that angrily breaking up with Rory in a junk yard because she didn't immediately announce that she loved him back after just three months of high school dating annoyed me to the point where I'd have been MORE than fine with them never reconciling.

 

Beyond that, it's not just that Dean possessed these flaws---plenty of GG males were probably just as flawed or maybe even more so. It's that Dean had so few evident positive and interesting traits to counterbalance them. He just ranged from annoyed to deadly dull, and I honestly never got any sense that he and Rory had any connection. I know we were supposed to, but I couldn't see it. I can't even imagine what they talked about. 

 

For the record, I'm usually a huge fan of the 'nice' characters and based on their usual descriptions thought I would favor Dean over Jess by a wide margin, but the writing and acting for Dean and his lack of chemistry with Rory was just so off-putting to me---even back in S1, when most fans still adored the guy :) If only Jared Padalecki had scowled less and made his tone less perpetually pissed off! 

Edited May 14, 2015 by amensisterfriend

[JayInChicago]

...AND HAD LESS STUPID HAIR. :D

what episode is it that lorelai says to dean "just because you and rory broke up, doesn't mean we have to" ?   

i mean, OBVIOUSLY taking that out of context but even in context it's like...did you just...really lorelai ok

Edited May 14, 2015 by JayInChicago

[junienmomo]

Dean was always superficial to me, making Lorelai's first estimation correct that he was rather like Christopher.

S1 he was the picture perfect boyfriend from the mother's and outsiders perspective, but he may well have lied about having a motorcycle.

Afterwards, his true neediness began to show when Jess came along, which evolved into bitterness.

To a certain extent, though can you blame him (I'm no Dean apologist)? He was moved from Chicago to happily backwater SH. The only girl he was interested in just changed schools, and there were some probably mild money issues. Tough thing for a sixteen year old used to the big city.

Hmm, Jess also came from the big city. Wonder what ASP intended by that, if anything? Another pull on Rory to draw her away from "just" Stars Hollow?

[HeySandyStrange]

Being a bit of a Dean apologist, I'd say the character was never given much thought outside of being Rory's "perfect" first boyfriend. A role which the Dean character had fullfilled by the beginning of the second season and the advent of Jess. I think Dean and his storyline would've been better served by him breaking up earlier with Rory and staying on the non-Gilmore Girl loving side of SH. I really could've done without them dragging out Dean whenever the mood struck them for ever increasingly ridiculous plots. If they did have to trot him out, he could've had a similar role that Jess had later on: a familiar face for Rory to talk to.

 

I also picture Dean as having joined the military for some reason. Or maybe I just want to picture Dean (and Jared P.) in a spiffy uniform, lol.

[readster]

 

I really could've done without them dragging out Dean whenever the mood struck them for ever increasingly ridiculous plots. If they did have to trot him out, he could've had a similar role that Jess had later on: a familiar face for Rory to talk to.

That's exactly it, especially in his last two appearances it was just to use him for whatever reason and Jared was free for filming and he wanted a paycheck. There are many show runners who do that even if the character being in the episode makes no sense what so ever and yet they do it. The actor doesn't have a problem, it's a paycheck. 

[amensisterfriend]

So what do you guys feel they could have done to make Dean a better character? Aside from giving him a well-defined personality and making him less jealous and prone to freakouts and sleeping with Rory while married, of course :) 

Our conversation on the Unpopular Opinions thread had me thinking about how many viewers liked Dean more 1) at the very beginning, when they at least made a few feeble attempts to depict him as smart and aware in a way that would allow him to 'get' the witty Gilmores and might have actually been less sheltered than Rory, 2) when, like Luke, his generous actions (building a car for her,always helping Rory and her mom, going to events he didn't actually want to attend, etc) spoke louder than his flaws and 3) when he had both the insight and guts to call Rory out on stuff. It makes me wish they had stuck with his original 'wears leather jackets, from Chicago, knows as many references as Rory and some she doesn't' version that they could have gone with, contrasting Dean's alleged "big city" life smarts with Rory's sheltered SH existence. I'd have loved them to show that despite adoring her so much he did know and get her flaws and sometimes even called her out on them, contrasting how Dean's type of, say, social intelligence was different from Rory's but valuable all the same. They could have let Dean, who was apparently supposed to be likable and easy to get along with, be a sociable extrovert to bring Rory out of her shell more like Logan did (though without the smarmy arrogance Logan sometimes exudes to many of us!) And they could have had Dean and Luke bond rather than clash---it could have shown us different sides of Dean (or at least allow him to have conversations with someone other than the Gilmores for once!), highlight the ways in which Luke and Dean were similar and different to each other and similar and different to the Gilmore Girls, provided an interesting conflict for Luke about whether he could remain friendly with Dean after Jess became his hated rival, etc. Finally, you know how almost every GG character has well-defined interests---Rory loves fiction, newspapers, and a lot more, Lorelai loves movies, pop culture, has a surprising flair for sewing etc, Lane loves music, Sookie loves cooking etc.? I wish they had given Dean (and most of the other male characters, for that matter!) at least one distinctive interest, maybe a fun and slightly quirky one we didn't expect. 

I'm guessing that little of the above rambling made sense, but I'd love to hear people's thoughts anyway :) 

Edited June 22, 2016 by amensisterfriend

[katha]

I think they should have stopped with Dean way earlier. They kept bringing him back and back and back and he became worse and worse and worse. And sadly, because he wasn't a well-defined character, they could totally destroy him and make that come across as believable. First, they should have toned down his behaviour in season 2, but that was the usual problem with GG and thinking that OTT male tantrums weren't a big deal. And then he should have been out of there after season 3. As it was, you had this depressging sequence of events where arguably meeting Rory was one of the worst events of Dean's life, because it totally derailed him, he never got over her and made terrible and hurtful decisions that messed up his life. Personally, that also taints Dean in season 1 for me. I watch that now and think: "Run, Dean, get away as fast as you can!"

[clack]

The post-Rory turn that Dean's life took seemed so tonally off-key for what is a light drama.

Skipping college, rushing into a bad marriage straight out of high school, finding only low-paying, blue-collar work with a construction crew -- what a depressing fate for a perfectly intelligent, once-promising young guy.

ASP should have sent him off to a nearby state college --say, UConn or URI. Having your heart broken by your 1st love is common, no reason why it should derail a teenager's life so totally.

[solotrek]

26 minutes ago, clack said:

The post-Rory turn that Dean's life took seemed so tonally off-key for what is a light drama.

Skipping college, rushing into a bad marriage straight out of high school, finding only low-paying, blue-collar work with a construction crew -- what a depressing fate for a perfectly intelligent, once-promising young guy.

ASP should have sent him off to a nearby state college --say, UConn or URI. Having your heart broken by your 1st love is common, no reason why it should derail a teenager's life so totally.

Considering Southern Connecticut State is 10 minutes from Yale, I'm incredibly surprised their Rory/Dean/Lindsay storyline couldn't just take place in New Haven. It'd make more sense. You could still have the Rory fish out of water situation, an easy excuse for Rory and Dean to see each other, and Dean would be completing his education. They could have actual conversations about how difficult the transition to college life is, being away from home, how hard classes actually are ,etc...

[Aloeonatable]

Quote

 I wish they had given Dean (and most of the other male characters, for that matter!) at least one distinctive interest, maybe a fun and slightly quirky one we didn't expect. 

Didn't he like monster truck rallies? 

[clack]

1 hour ago, Aloeonatable said:

Didn't he like monster truck rallies? 

Monster truck rallies, Liz Phair, and Hunter S. Thompson. Doesn't quite add up, does it?

And Luke geeks out over scifi movies and TV shows, in some episodes anyway.

[junienmomo]

5 minutes ago, clack said:

Monster truck rallies, Liz Phair, and Hunter S. Thompson. Doesn't quite add up, does it?

And Luke geeks out over scifi movies and TV shows, in some episodes anyway.

Dean: ice hockey and softball

Luke: occasionaly didn't know that talkies were all the rage.

[HeySandyStrange]

Quote

I wish they had given Dean (and most of the other male characters, for that matter!) at least one distinctive interest, maybe a fun and slightly quirky one we didn't expect. 

You know, going on that line, I thought about how interesting it might have been if Dean was a secretly good writer. Possibly better then Rory or Jess were. Thinking of how ego bruising it would've been for the two talents to have to compete with the average Dean (who probably had no intention of being a writer). Or, since that might be too sitcomy, maybe he had musical talent, was a good artist, or picked up languages easily. That would've made him more interesting in my book.

As for what would've made him a better character overall. First off, give him a backstory, not just new, cool kid from Chicago who inexplicably becomes more country bumpkinish as the series goes on. How about his family and conflict he could've had with them? Did he have a hardass of a father he got on him for listening to "weird" music and reading books instead of being on the football team? A storyline focusing on Dean's relationship with his father would've been interesting, since fathers were given very little focus otherwise in the series. Or maybe Dean becomes really popular at SHH and Rory has to deal with the fact he is much more liked then she is with their age group in town. Of course, the whole stupid marriage storyline would have to go and Dean would still be college bound by the end of the series instead of wasting away in bitterness and adultery in Star's Hollow. I can think of many ways the show's writers could have made Dean a better, more-rounded character, but they never invested much in him beyond being Rory's first boyfriend. Which is why, in the long run, it would have been better if he left the show permanently after Rory and he broke up.

For what it's worth, a read a pretty decent Rory/Dean future fanfic that really deepened the Dean character in my eyes in a way I wish the show could have: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/5187768/1/Sometimes-You-Do. I'm hoping we get to see a little of the Dean who want to college and was self-aware in the upcoming revival, that was presented in this fanfic. Without the relationship angle, of course. Even if it is just a few lines about how good he is doing overall in his life.

Edited June 23, 2016 by HeySandyStrange
can't spell

[Meow25]

I loathed Dean from the moment I saw him, but I see the appeal.  I think.  

I saw Mr. Stalker in S1, so I really didn't think that changed at all.  I think they could've left Dean alone, but if they REALLY needed the marriage/affair storyline I'd have prefered this: 

Dean/Lindsay: Pregnant

Dean joins the Marines, and marries a pregnant Lindsay after boot camp. 

Dean comes home on leave to see his family.  Runs into Rory.  They have dinner to catch up. Dean is overcome with romantic nostalgia, Rory is overwhelmed by Dean is his uniform.  They have sex.  

Dean is overcome with remorse, goes home to his wife & baby.  

Rory realizes that she made a BIG mistake and grows up a bit from the experience.  

End of arc.  

I just, for the LIFE of me, understand WHY they chose the story they chose.  

Edited June 23, 2016 by Meow25

[Janet Snakehole]

On June 23, 2016 at 8:45 AM, clack said:

The post-Rory turn that Dean's life took seemed so tonally off-key for what is a light drama.

Skipping college, rushing into a bad marriage straight out of high school, finding only low-paying, blue-collar work with a construction crew -- what a depressing fate for a perfectly intelligent, once-promising young guy.

ASP should have sent him off to a nearby state college --say, UConn or URI. Having your heart broken by your 1st love is common, no reason why it should derail a teenager's life so totally.

This show was depressing as fuck when it came to the teen set that stayed in Stars Hollows, which I thought was so weird and antiquated. Dean, Lane, Lindsay...couldn't someone who stayed had a happy ending? It seemed like it was prestigious college or nothing.  Jess was the only non-Ivy kid of Rory's age who got to grow. And he had to move across the country to get it. It is just so unrealistic to me, I am about Rory's age and had plenty of friends go state school route and end up pretty successful out of college.

Anyway, I fall in the writers did a poor job with Dean camp. I don't think he was a particularly charming character, but I do think he was dumbed down for the sake of the story. And yeah he was jealous and possessive, but he was a kid. Plus in the end, he was right about Jess and Rory.

Edited September 3, 2016 by Janet Snakehole

[readster]

The show runners idea that Lane never going to college, having twins after a disastrous honeymoon sex, which was also her first time. Plugged in with Lindsay thinkings she could be some stay at home 20 year old wife was just completely depressing and stupid. I never saw any growth, or "happy ending" for those characters. As I have said, I hope to see Dean in the mini movies to be someone who got his life together, knew he made mistakes, finally grew from them and moved on and I don't mean in Stars Hollow, I mean he moved on both spiritually and physically. 

[TimetravellingBW]

Re: What could they have done to improve Dean's character - For me the main thing was he just needed to be written off sooner. He represented a phase in Rory's life - the first, puppy love, perfect boyfriend stage - rather than needing to have his own arcs.  I think he fulfilled that role/phase well, he was sweet during s1 and s2 just felt a very realistic case of a teenage relationship where the two don't have much in common and drifting apart. 

The problem was they kept Dean long after his expiration date. (As so many others have said). In general I think it's hard to keep love interests (characters who are primarily there as love interests rather than regular characters like Luke who was built into the premise of the show) around once they've fulfilled their relationship arc with the Gilmore Girl. Even Max who I actually liked, had no place after he and Lorelai broke up and it made sense to phase him out. If only they'd done that with Dean.

So yes, they could have given Dean personal story arcs or struggles, but I'd have preferred to just get rid of everything post-breaking up with Rory. His relationship arc with her was done basically by the end of s2 when she kissed Jess and realised she liked him, let alone Dean being needed around in s4 and 5. They could have had Rory break up with Dean earlier in the beginning of s3 (bonus points for making Rory less passive and not dragging Dean along, and getting rid of the Jess/Shane stuff because at that point it was so obvious what was going to happen). Dropped Dean down to recurring character in s3 to allow more time for the Jess/Rory relationship before it imploded, and just have him there to give closure to a Dean/Rory final ending when she says goodbye at his window, he could pop up in town scenes and then at the end of the season he could preferably part with Rory on good terms as he heads off to college/the military/somewhere not Stars Hollow where young people stay to waste their lives. 

Him actually have interests outside of Rory would have been good and easy to build into his character, Imo there wasn't room to give him whole personal arcs as he was introduced in s1 when they were introducing all the characters and he didn't have conmections outside of Rory to naturally incorporate Dean-centric stories. (Unlike Jess who as Luke's nephew naturally got more exploration, or Jason and even Logan who had links with the grandparents). And making him more into books/music or Rory dealing with him being popular kind of ended up being what they did with Jess and Logan. Dean was fine as a nice but not a soulmate first BF. They should have stopped it there and let him go. 

Edited September 4, 2016 by TimetravellingBW

[Lady Calypso]

I agree. I'm right at the beginning of season 5, right after Lindsay finds out about Dean/Rory, so I'm still not at the point of the aftermath, but I'm not sure why he had four seasons with stories that didn't make his character look like an outstanding guy. If anything, his appearances in seasons 4 and 5 made him look worse. Ok, season 4 had them bring out his sweeter side, BUT he was still a married man, and having him talk about Rory in his drunken stupour the night before his wedding made him look a lot worse. 

The issue was having him get married and then give him a storyline with Rory. It was clear that it could only end in disaster and make not only Dean a pretty awful person, but Rory as well (I am not fond of Rory thus far; she is not making smart choices). I feel like they kind of wanted Rory and Dean to end up as a couple by the end of the series, but something changed. I don't know why they'd reintroduce Dean/Rory into the mix at the end of season 4, otherwise. 

Maybe it would have helped if he had more scenes outside of Rory. He had some scenes with Lane and Lorelai, but it all went back to Rory, making him a plot device more than anything. Sure, I may have liked Dean's attitude more in season 4, but he ended up causing more damage than fixing it. It would have been better to let him go. Have him show up occasionally in town if they had to, but nothing more than a casual acquaintance. I'll have to finish Dean's arc in season 5 to see what happens to him, but I have a feeling it doesn't end well for him (nor should it). I just never expected him to stay in Stars Hollow, as he only lived there for three years before he would have gone off to college. I saw him as a guy who enjoyed Stars Hollow, but would have only came to visit his family more frequently at the beginning, but less and less as the years went by.

Also, I must say that my issues with this infidelity arc makes Lane look like a worse friend, because she seemed to be gung ho for Dean/Rory until Rory pointed out that he was still married. I'm hoping Lane changes her tune during this Dean/Rory mess, because Lorelai was totally in the right about Dean/Rory. 

Part of me wanted Rory to break up with Dean at the end of season 2/very beginning of season 3. Maybe if she had done that, it would have allowed more time for Jess/Rory, it wouldn't have introduced bitchy, jealous Rory in front of Dean, and things wouldn't have ended as badly and made little sense for the two to be on such friendly terms months later. They never talked it out; Dean/Rory just met up, he told her that he was getting married, and then things seemed to be back to normal. I also didn't like Dean inviting Rory to his wedding, if only because he had to have known how awkward things would be if she went. Thank goodness Luke did (but only because of Dean's drunken confession). 

Hopefully, in the revival, we see Dean happy in some sort of small city life with a family. I don't quite know what he'd do, but I hope he's moved on from everything and is changed from all the mistakes that he's made. I could easily see him running into Rory with a wife and a child or two. Maybe he's back visiting family for the holidays. That would be a fine ending for Dean/Rory. 

Edited September 4, 2016 by Lady Calypso

[HeySandyStrange]

4 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I don't know why they'd reintroduce Dean/Rory into the mix at the end of season 4, otherwise. 

I'm not sure what the show runners intentions as far as a Dean/Rory being endgame where, but I seem to remember ASP saying somewhere along the line that she was feeling some pressure to have Rory lose her virginity. I guess because virginity is such a catching disease, lol. Instead of Rory, say, losing it to some random that she had no romantic interest in (which would've been far more intriguing and realistic, imo) they went with the teenaged married ex-boyfriend. I can only guess that they stuck with Dean because a) back then some people would've still had issues with girl next door Rory having a one night stand and b) they wanted to spice up the show and make it more "edgy" to the younger viewers who were growing older. But, as others have said, ASP and Co. were never really committed to telling a truly real story about Rory and Dean's pathetic adultery and that's why it fell flat. Truthfully, I think they liked Jared P. more then Dean and that might be one of the reasons they kept throwing random Dean stories out there. Though even Jared mentioned that he was disappointed with how things ended for Dean. I'm hoping they throw Jared a bone for the revival and let him give Dean a better send off then he got the first time around, as a successful adult that has long got over his hang-up on Rory.

[TimetravellingBW]

14 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Part of me wanted Rory to break up with Dean at the end of season 2/very beginning of season 3. Maybe if she had done that, it would have allowed more time for Jess/Rory, it wouldn't have introduced bitchy, jealous Rory in front of Dean, and things wouldn't have ended as badly and made little sense for the two to be on such friendly terms months later. They never talked it out; Dean/Rory just met up, he told her that he was getting married, and then things seemed to be back to normal. I also didn't like Dean inviting Rory to his wedding, if only because he had to have known how awkward things would be if she went. Thank goodness Luke did (but only because of Dean's drunken confession). 

Hopefully, in the revival, we see Dean happy in some sort of small city life with a family. I don't quite know what he'd do, but I hope he's moved on from everything and is changed from all the mistakes that he's made. I could easily see him running into Rory with a wife and a child or two. Maybe he's back visiting family for the holidays. That would be a fine ending for Dean/Rory. 

I'd have really liked it if Rory broke up with Dean in the first or second episode of Season 3, after her kiss with Jess. At this point there'd been almost a year of her feeling stifled by Dean and falling for Jess. The build up was glaringly obvious, she chose Jess over Dean when she called up Jess after the Basket festival, stayed out driving with him during "tutoring" and visited New York. Even taking into account what people-pleaser Rory was, the show made me believe she'd grow a backbone and/or a conscience and dump her "perfect" boyfriend at this point. Dragging the inevitable break up out a third of the way through Season 3 was incredibly tiring and made everyone involved look bad: Rory for stringing two guys along, Jess for using Shane to make her jealous and Dean for getting more jealous and clingy. Plus as Jess was only around until the end of s3 it meant we saw very little of the Jess/Rory relationship after all that build up. (Although I'm a Jess fan and would have liked to see more of him, him leaving SH after high school made sense for his character). 

But yeah, despite it all I hope they give Dean some closure and a happy ending (with the idyllic family he wanted if need be) rather than forever pining for his high school girlfriend.

9 hours ago, HeySandyStrange said:

I'm not sure what the show runners intentions as far as a Dean/Rory being endgame where, but I seem to remember ASP saying somewhere along the line that she was feeling some pressure to have Rory lose her virginity. I guess because virginity is such a catching disease, lol. Instead of Rory, say, losing it to some random that she had no romantic interest in (which would've been far more intriguing and realistic, imo) they went with the teenaged married ex-boyfriend. I can only guess that they stuck with Dean because a) back then some people would've still had issues with girl next door Rory having a one night stand and b) they wanted to spice up the show and make it more "edgy" to the younger viewers who were growing older. But, as others have said, ASP and Co. were never really committed to telling a truly real story about Rory and Dean's pathetic adultery and that's why it fell flat. Truthfully, I think they liked Jared P. more then Dean and that might be one of the reasons they kept throwing random Dean stories out there. Though even Jared mentioned that he was disappointed with how things ended for Dean. I'm hoping they throw Jared a bone for the revival and let him give Dean a better send off then he got the first time around, as a successful adult that has long got over his hang-up on Rory.

Ugh, I worry that AS-P might have viewed Rory sleeping with a married man as edgy and exciting, but her having a one night stand was crossing some moral line. (Then again, Rory's treatment of the likes of Shane suggests she had some issues with slut-shaming). I admit my initial reaction to Rory having a one night stand is that it would be out of character for her, but then so was having an affair. (For pre-yacht-stealing Rory anyway). And if they'd written her one night stand well - maybe she felt pressured to sleep with someone because of the pressure from everyone over her "dry spell" - then it could have been good.

And honestly if they "needed" Rory to lose her virginity (ugh) it would have made far more sense to have her and Jess sleep together imo. She admitted to being sexually attracted to him - unlike with Dean where she seemed to cringe at the thought of doing more than kissing and hand-holding. And there were far more loose ends and lack of closure with Jess than with Dean, Rory/Jess imploded so quickly that she never got a chance to get over him (she threw herself into Europe and then Yale, and probably felt she couldn't "wallow" over Jess around Lorelai) and s4 did play it that they struggled getting over each other. It would have been much more interesting if Jess's return and declaration in Last Week Fights, This Week Tights, led to Jess and Rory admitting they weren't over each other, sleeping together and then realizing they were in the same place as s3: At totally different stages of their lives and not in a position to be together. The final closure/failure with Jess could still propel Rory into embracing her grandparent's world and dating Logan in s5. 

Mostly I just wonder how Dean was by far the dullest of Rory's boyfriends, but was still kept around longer than Jess and Logan - both of whom were ten times more complex and interesting.

Edited September 5, 2016 by TimetravellingBW

[patchwork]

Dean's later appearances seemed more about actor availability than anything else. 

I agree that Jess seems like the better option for Rory's first time especially in hindsight because we know there was no fallout from the affair and she quickly moved on to Logan and the LDB. Rory living with Jess in New York for the summer and getting caught up in the intellectual writing/artsy scene would still cause that critical first big rift between Lorelei and Rory, plus there could have been Luke/Rory stuff. It probably wouldn't have taken Rory and Jess long to realise they weren't going to work long term but why not enjoy whatever time you have with someone who honest to god gets you.

Rory coming back to Yale convinced she's ready to take on the world (and thinking she can handle a temporary relationship) is a much better lead in to Logan and his world than poor Dean who should have been allowed to gracefully exit back in season 3. 

[hippielamb]

22 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Also, I must say that my issues with this infidelity arc makes Lane look like a worse friend, because she seemed to be gung ho for Dean/Rory until Rory pointed out that he was still married. I'm hoping Lane changes her tune during this Dean/Rory mess, because Lorelai was totally in the right about Dean/Rory. 

Hopefully, in the revival, we see Dean happy in some sort of small city life with a family. I don't quite know what he'd do, but I hope he's moved on from everything and is changed from all the mistakes that he's made. I could easily see him running into Rory with a wife and a child or two. Maybe he's back visiting family for the holidays. That would be a fine ending for Dean/Rory. 

Lane is always a supportive friend to Rory so it made sense to me that she was on board for their relationship. Frankly, I was glad Rory had one person who asked if she was ok and didn't lecture her. Lane also at that point had very little romantic experience with guys and seemed to live vicariously through Rory. When Rory told Lane about Jess visiting at Yale, Lane was very interested and supportive. A couple episodes later, she finds out about Dean and Rory and is just as excited. This show is hardly the most consistent though I feel Lane's support of Rory has stayed true. /unabashed Lane Kim fan

This is my hope too, although I would be fine if Dean had stayed in Stars Hollow. I just want him to be happy and hopefully found someone who appreciates him. He seemed like the kind of guy who would be happy with a family.

I would have liked to see him start his own carpentry business or an apprenticeship with Tom. One criticism I have of this show is that they push the college is good angle. It certainly is for kids like Rory and Paris but not everyone fits into that mold. Lane and Dean would have done well in a different educational setting, perhaps learning on the job.

17 hours ago, HeySandyStrange said:

I'm not sure what the show runners intentions as far as a Dean/Rory being endgame where, but I seem to remember ASP saying somewhere along the line that she was feeling some pressure to have Rory lose her virginity. I guess because virginity is such a catching disease, lol. Instead of Rory, say, losing it to some random that she had no romantic interest in (which would've been far more intriguing and realistic, imo) they went with the teenaged married ex-boyfriend. I can only guess that they stuck with Dean because a) back then some people would've still had issues with girl next door Rory having a one night stand and b) they wanted to spice up the show and make it more "edgy" to the younger viewers who were growing older. But, as others have said, ASP and Co. were never really committed to telling a truly real story about Rory and Dean's pathetic adultery and that's why it fell flat. Truthfully, I think they liked Jared P. more then Dean and that might be one of the reasons they kept throwing random Dean stories out there. Though even Jared mentioned that he was disappointed with how things ended for Dean. I'm hoping they throw Jared a bone for the revival and let him give Dean a better send off then he got the first time around, as a successful adult that has long got over his hang-up on Rory.

They did that on Felicity. Maybe it would have seemed like a retread to have the goodie two shoes girl sleep with a random guy for her first time. I read somewhere that Amy always intended for Dean to be Rory's first. A big part of Rory latching on to Dean was her desire for safety and home.

[readster]

6 hours ago, patchwork said:

Dean's later appearances seemed more about actor availability than anything else. 

I agree that Jess seems like the better option for Rory's first time especially in hindsight because we know there was no fallout from the affair and she quickly moved on to Logan and the LDB. Rory living with Jess in New York for the summer and getting caught up in the intellectual writing/artsy scene would still cause that critical first big rift between Lorelei and Rory, plus there could have been Luke/Rory stuff. It probably wouldn't have taken Rory and Jess long to realise they weren't going to work long term but why not enjoy whatever time you have with someone who honest to god gets you.

Rory coming back to Yale convinced she's ready to take on the world (and thinking she can handle a temporary relationship) is a much better lead in to Logan and his world than poor Dean who should have been allowed to gracefully exit back in season 3. 

They pretty much stated that Jared being free since he had several failed projects before Supernatural came about was why he showed up. Same with Jess and even Marty in season 7. It came around the actor being free and even Jared said he was happy to have a paycheck, but did hate his last appearance of Dean because he said it just left nothing resolved or anyone. It was just there and he said the part was basically suppose to be him bitter at everything and nothing more. 

[junienmomo]

27 minutes ago, hippielamb said:

 

I would have liked to see him start his own carpentry business or an apprenticeship with Tom. One criticism I have of this show is that they push the college is good angle. It certainly is for kids like Rory and Paris but not everyone fits into that mold. Lane and Dean would have done well in a different educational setting, perhaps learning on the job.

 

LOL, TJ is a carpenter. He and Dean should partner. Dean would be the brains. And who could be bitter with a dimwit like TJ around all the time?

[HeySandyStrange]

1 hour ago, hippielamb said:

They did that on Felicity. Maybe it would have seemed like a retread to have the goodie two shoes girl sleep with a random guy for her first time. I read somewhere that Amy always intended for Dean to be Rory's first. A big part of Rory latching on to Dean was her desire for safety and home.

Sometimes some of ASP's notions about her own characters puzzles me. I get that Rory seeking comfort in Dean was meant to demonstrate how insecure and lonely she was feeling in the big bad world, but why on earth did she think it was a good idea to make Dean married? And considering ASP didn't really give to much dimension or thought to Dean's character during the first few years of the show, why did she think another hook-up between Rory and him would be compelling? I'm no fan of Jess but even I think he would've been the more logical choice for Rory to lose it too, maybe as a one off thing that wouldn't be repeated. If ASP insisted on Dean being Rory's first, at least make him not married and give him a more compelling reason for seeking out Rory then his all consuming "passion" for her. Like he was also adjusting to college/technical school/trade school and was just seeking a friendly face.

Quote

I would have liked to see him start his own carpentry business or an apprenticeship with Tom. One criticism I have of this show is that they push the college is good angle

The "College is Good" angle is especially ironic when you consider that ASP, last I checked, was not a college graduate. To be fair, GG isn't the only show that seems to think there are no other choices between a 4-year College and a minimum wage existence. I would love to find out Dean become a carpenter, plumber, mechanic or something in that vain and is doing very, very well for himself. These days some of those trade careers have higher earning potential then your white collar college careers. It would be funny to me if we have Rory struggling in her career and Dean has got his shit together, finally, without they aid of an Ivy League education.

[TimetravellingBW]

10 hours ago, patchwork said:

Dean's later appearances seemed more about actor availability than anything else. 

I agree that Jess seems like the better option for Rory's first time especially in hindsight because we know there was no fallout from the affair and she quickly moved on to Logan and the LDB. Rory living with Jess in New York for the summer and getting caught up in the intellectual writing/artsy scene would still cause that critical first big rift between Lorelei and Rory, plus there could have been Luke/Rory stuff. It probably wouldn't have taken Rory and Jess long to realise they weren't going to work long term but why not enjoy whatever time you have with someone who honest to god gets you.

Rory coming back to Yale convinced she's ready to take on the world (and thinking she can handle a temporary relationship) is a much better lead in to Logan and his world than poor Dean who should have been allowed to gracefully exit back in season 3. 

Exactly. Hell, they'd probably only need one night together to recall the timing issues of them being together. Realising that Rory was at a stage in her life when she fitted at Yale, and experiencing College, while Jess was still a wanderer who had to find what he wanted. (Jeez, even Dean's "I don't belong here" line would have made x100 times more sense from Jess). And a Lorelai/Rory fight over her going back to Jess, rather than Dean would make both perspectives feel fairer, as Lorelai did have a serious berserk button regarding Jess, while Rory sleeping with a married guy was never going to be sympathetic. Rory and Jess could have parted with much less bitterness than Rory/Dean and both been very human people who are just struggling to get over each other rather than cheaters. It also would have fitted with Jess's return in s6: The symmetry of Rory having her life on track in s3/4 while Jess was a mess, while Jess has it figured it out in s6 while Rory is floundering.

3 hours ago, hippielamb said:

I read somewhere that Amy always intended for Dean to be Rory's first. A big part of Rory latching on to Dean was her desire for safety and home.

Ugh, really? She really should have had Rory show at least an ounce of sexual attraction when they dated then. I wish they'd been more explicit with Rory admitting she slept with Dean because he offered reassurance from the scariness of College and nostalgia for when things were easy and idyllic before - that's how much fans read it at least. But the show tried to play it like they had this crazy,  uncontrollable attraction which....did not work imo.

3 hours ago, hippielamb said:

I would have liked to see him start his own carpentry business or an apprenticeship with Tom. One criticism I have of this show is that they push the college is good angle. It certainly is for kids like Rory and Paris but not everyone fits into that mold. Lane and Dean would have done well in a different educational setting, perhaps learning on the job.

2 hours ago, HeySandyStrange said:

The "College is Good" angle is especially ironic when you consider that ASP, last I checked, was not a college graduate. To be fair, GG isn't the only show that seems to think there are no other choices between a 4-year College and a minimum wage existence. I would love to find out Dean become a carpenter, plumber, mechanic or something in that vain and is doing very, very well for himself. These days some of those trade careers have higher earning potential then your white collar college careers. It would be funny to me if we have Rory struggling in her career and Dean has got his shit together, finally, without they aid of an Ivy League education.

The education options for all the young characters drove me crazy, it was either private school and Ivy League (Rory, Paris, Logan), or become a drop out and get zero qualifications (Dean, Lane, Jess - though he at least ended up having a career he enjoyed). They made some attempts to give Lane and Dean alternatives with community college in s4 but when they both dropped out, it was just felt like "well it wasn't an Ivy League so it wasn't worth it anyway." It would be nice if in the revival Dean was successful doing a more practical job; Lorelai/Rory were such snobs about blue-collar work at times.  Honestly these days becoming a carpenter/plumber/mechanic has a higher chance of success, better income, more steady work and less debt than doing an English degree and trying for journalism. People like Rory with family wealth and a safety net can take that risk, but a lot of people can't. So Dean running his own carpentry business would be great.

Edited September 5, 2016 by TimetravellingBW

[hippielamb]

On 9/5/2016 at 4:41 PM, HeySandyStrange said:

Sometimes some of ASP's notions about her own characters puzzles me. I get that Rory seeking comfort in Dean was meant to demonstrate how insecure and lonely she was feeling in the big bad world, but why on earth did she think it was a good idea to make Dean married? And considering ASP didn't really give to much dimension or thought to Dean's character during the first few years of the show, why did she think another hook-up between Rory and him would be compelling? I'm no fan of Jess but even I think he would've been the more logical choice for Rory to lose it too, maybe as a one off thing that wouldn't be repeated. If ASP insisted on Dean being Rory's first, at least make him not married and give him a more compelling reason for seeking out Rory then his all consuming "passion" for her. Like he was also adjusting to college/technical school/trade school and was just seeking a friendly face.

The "College is Good" angle is especially ironic when you consider that ASP, last I checked, was not a college graduate. To be fair, GG isn't the only show that seems to think there are no other choices between a 4-year College and a minimum wage existence. I would love to find out Dean become a carpenter, plumber, mechanic or something in that vain and is doing very, very well for himself. These days some of those trade careers have higher earning potential then your white collar college careers. It would be funny to me if we have Rory struggling in her career and Dean has got his shit together, finally, without they aid of an Ivy League education.

The affair plotline feels a little tacked on. I remember when Jared got the young MacGyver pilot. I think that's why they married Dean off because he couldn't do both shows at once. Then the pilot didn't get picked up so they decided to go forward with the Rory/Dean relationship. 

Unlike most fans, I don't have an issue with the infidelity or young marriage storyline. Both felt realistic. Getting married at 18 has some major bumps when you factor in jobs and responsibilities. 

Rory sleeping with Dean was about making her own choices. Yes it was bad for her and she basically used him, but Rory finally had some agency of her own. I don't sympathize with Dean either as I usually do because he was not honest with Rory before hopping into bed with her. I think they also wanted to show a fracture in the girls relationship. Rory is choosing her own path. Lorelai doesn't fully realize this until Rory comes home drunk in a limo but it started much sooner with Dean.   

When a show has a bias, it makes you wonder if the show runners also have that same attitude. It stands out to me now because we hear about college graduates who can't find a job and have to move back home. Meanwhile, young people who choose a trade school or apprenticeships are more successful. 

I would love that! I hope that once Dean realized things with Rory were over, he could go on with his life and find some happiness.

On 9/5/2016 at 7:10 PM, TimetravellingBW said:

Ugh, really? She really should have had Rory show at least an ounce of sexual attraction when they dated then. I wish they'd been more explicit with Rory admitting she slept with Dean because he offered reassurance from the scariness of College and nostalgia for when things were easy and idyllic before - that's how much fans read it at least. But the show tried to play it like they had this crazy,  uncontrollable attraction which....did not work imo.

Yes, I think she said it after the revival was announced that Dean was always meant to be Rory's first. I can see that, they showed him as the wholesome boyfriend in season 1/early season 2. They never had much physical chemistry so that played flat during season 5. I wonder how many fans who don't pay close attention got the Dean is safe/returning to home message for Rory, it was hardly obvious but if you pay close attention to her arc in her freshman year it does come through.

[kevinmassinburg]

I don’t see the hate for dean; tristin and Jess literally pined for Rory and continual entertained all of it. I agree when he confess his love for her and it was returned he went overboard but all of his temper tantrum were kinda of justified. Ex: Jess literally talked dean down while riding on those horses, they stared each other down and dean noticed.. Dean was mad all the time because she always defended the other guy who desrespected their relationship.

[peacheslatour]

On 8/27/2020 at 9:15 PM, kevinmassinburg said:

I don’t see the hate for dean; tristin and Jess literally pined for Rory and continual entertained all of it. I agree when he confess his love for her and it was returned he went overboard but all of his temper tantrum were kinda of justified. Ex: Jess literally talked dean down while riding on those horses, they stared each other down and dean noticed.. Dean was mad all the time because she always defended the other guy who desrespected their relationship.

I don't remember them riding any horses.

[Gam2]

3 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

I don't remember them riding any horses.

Me either. What horses?

[scarynikki12]

I think it's in reference to the sleigh rides in The Bracebridge Dinner. Dean and Clara take a sleigh and Rory goes by herself until Jess jumps in. He then spends time dumping on Dean.

Looking back I think the Dean vs Jess thing would have ended up far more interesting if they'd been secretly interested in each other rather than warring over Rory.

[Oldernowiser]

I’m only on season four so maybe that makes a difference...but Dean was super sweet with Rory until Jess appeared and decided he wanted her. And honestly, I never saw any real reason Jess wanted Rory other than she was pretty and he had a shot at deflowering the princess of the town he hated. He also really enjoyed messing with Dean just for cheap entertainment. Sadistic little shit.

Dean was OTT with the calls, etc, but he was young and head over heels. He took her to that Chilton dance. He did that ridulous DAR cotillion. He dealt with “movie night” starring Lorelai. HE BUILT HER A CAR and forgave Rory after she let Jess drive it and wreck it. He got clingier after Jess oozed into town, yes...but for good reason.

First loves aren’t supposed to last forever, but Dean deserved a kinder ending.

[peacheslatour]

3 minutes ago, Oldernowiser said:

I’m only on season four so maybe that makes a difference...but Dean was super sweet with Rory until Jess appeared and decided he wanted her. And honestly, I never saw any real reason Jess wanted Rory other than she was pretty and he had a shot at deflowering the princess of the town he hated. He also really enjoyed messing with Dean just for cheap entertainment. Sadistic little shit.

Dean was OTT with the calls, etc, but he was young and head over heels. He took her to that Chilton dance. He did that ridulous DAR cotillion. He dealt with “movie night” starring Lorelai. HE BUILT HER A CAR and forgave Rory after she let Jess drive it and wreck it. He got clingier after Jess oozed into town, yes...but for good reason.

First loves aren’t supposed to last forever, but Dean deserved a kinder ending.

As was said upthread, I wish Dean had been savvier, more street smart. You'd think a guy from Chicago would not be so county bumpkinish. If they wanted to go that angle they should have given him a more rural back story. 

[HeySandyStrange]

On 8/30/2020 at 12:49 PM, peacheslatour said:

As was said upthread, I wish Dean had been savvier, more street smart. You'd think a guy from Chicago would not be so county bumpkinish. If they wanted to go that angle they should have given him a more rural back story. 

Dean's change from a somewhat sophisticated city slicker to a country bumpkin was just another example of ASP and the writers lack of character/story continuity. They put the plot over character development often.

 

On 8/30/2020 at 12:41 PM, Oldernowiser said:

First loves aren’t supposed to last forever, but Dean deserved a kinder ending.

Well, at least he faired somewhat better in the revival. I wish his original storyline on the show had ended with him and Rory staying broken up, with them mending fences right before they graduated and Dean living town , without a pointless teen marriage.