S09.E10: Duggar Derby

[starfire]

When the heck did they get those bunk beds shown in this episode.  I don't think I've seen them before now, they always had the metal type bunk beds or single beds.  Now there are some wooden custom built triple decker bunk beds.  It literally looks like their bus inside the boys room.  I feel bad for the boys who sleep on the very bottom they may as well sleep on the damn floor.  And why would they need 15 beds (5 sets of triple bunk beds)???? There was only a total of 10 boys minus Josh makes 9.  It's so sad John- David is 24 & not only does he have to share a room with all his little brothers he then has to sleep on a bunk bed....get the man a regular sized bed!!!

 

JD still lives there? I thought he lives in the house he owns.

[zenme]

JD still lives there? I thought he lives in the house he owns

 

That would be too normal. I believe that talk about the house was that one day he and a future bride could live in it.  Until then, it's Howler City for him.  I wonder though if Jim Bob would allow him to take over Ben's bachelor pad once he and Jessa marry.

[ranchgirl]

Yes, those wooden bunk beds were new. 

 

I cringed when Jana said that she was just there to chaperone and leave the babysitting to Jessa and Ben because they would be in this situation soon.  Ummmm, they aren't going to have 6-7 kids in a year ... they will build up to that.  Why can't anyone in this family just enjoy being where they are in life?   Why does a courting couple have to prove they can handle 6-7 kids right now? 

[starfire]

That would be too normal. I believe that talk about the house was that one day he and a future bride could live in it.  Until then, it's Howler City for him.  I wonder though if Jim Bob would allow him to take over Ben's bachelor pad once he and Jessa marry.

 

 

You are saying that the house he owns in Rogers, which  includes a business (or businesses) he owns on the same property, is just sitting there waiting for him to move in after he is married (if ever?)  I thought that only the female Duggars were required to live at home until marriage -- is it same for the boys, too? I thought JD lived in his house and just showed up at the compound for filming and whenever JB summoned him home to help with chores/projects.

[BucFan]

That's how I feel every single time we watch the kids engage in a special activity. "Oh, here, Hannie, you better enjoy this 30 minutes on a horse, because you will never do this again". It's depressing. Frankly, I'm surprised riding a horse isn't seen as defrauding the women in some crazy way.

I won't go into detail, but a lot of females get a "special feeling" when riding horses. I think Mommy may have found a new hobby.

[zenme]

You are saying that the house he owns in Rogers, which  includes a business (or businesses) he owns on the same property, is just sitting there waiting for him to move in after he is married (if ever?)  I thought that only the female Duggars were required to live at home until marriage -- is it same for the boys, too? I thought JD lived in his house and just showed up at the compound for filming and whenever JB summoned him home to help with chores/projects.

 

Could be wrong, but I understood that JD would have the house and work on it, and possibly keep it to live in once he's married.  He indicated that this would be an option, OR he could fix it up and sell it. 

[Mrsjumbo]

Does the family ever do anything useful for this world? Serving in a soup kitchen, meals on wheels or helping in a home for unwed mothers? And not the 19 kids creating a circus wherever they go, but one or two of them filmed quietly pitching in would mean a lot more than some empty promise to pray for someone.

It's a shame- there is a ballpark not far from Tontitown that has Miracle League games for kids that cannot play on regular baseball teams. There are volunteers every weekend (kids & adults) who buddy- up with the kids & help them play.

[GEML]

I don't know anything about the Duggars, but I do believe under Gothardism, both male and female children are to live with parents or within a family setting until they marry. Which is why it's ridiculous. Would have been kind of hard for Jesus, Paul and many of his disciples to have done their ministry under those restrictions, huh?

[starfire]

Could be wrong, but I understood that JD would have the house and work on it, and possibly keep it to live in once he's married.  He indicated that this would be an option, OR he could fix it up and sell it. 

 

I can't imagine owning my own home and choosing to live at mom and dad's and sleep in a bunk bed with my little brothers.

[Barb23]

Add the Derby cars to the outdoor bikes/kids cars that are constantly ridden INSIDE their house. I can just picture them whizzing down the hall by their dining room, crashing into the walls & furniture as they go.

[Temperance]

I don't know anything about the Duggars, but I do believe under Gothardism, both male and female children are to live with parents or within a family setting until they marry. Which is why it's ridiculous. Would have been kind of hard for Jesus, Paul and many of his disciples to have done their ministry under those restrictions, huh?

Actually Jesus is believed to lived at home until age 30. At least that's what I've always been told. 

I'm not defending the fact that the Duggars do not let their kids to make their own decisions about living arrangements or that they have not empowered their children to be able to feel secure in the large world (which I think is also a big problem. Especially for the pre-TLC kids like Jana and JD who spent some many years secluded from the outside world.) Or the fact that the kids have little financial freedom or ways of obtaining it.

Edited October 9, 2014 by Temperance

[Sew Sumi]

I can't imagine owning my own home and choosing to live at mom and dad's and sleep in a bunk bed with my little brothers.

JD has as much "choice" in this matter as do/did Jessa/Jill "choosing" their courtship boundaries. As GEML pointed out, the Duggars play Gothard by the book with no variations.

[nccueagle84]

You are saying that the house he owns in Rogers, which  includes a business (or businesses) he owns on the same property, is just sitting there waiting for him to move in after he is married (if ever?)  I thought that only the female Duggars were required to live at home until marriage -- is it same for the boys, too? I thought JD lived in his house and just showed up at the compound for filming and whenever JB summoned him home to help with chores/projects.

 There is a blog entry about courting on Michelle's blog on TLC from last september that basically says that he is renting it out for additional income (http://www.tlc.com/tv-shows/19-kids-and-counting/michelle-duggars-blog/michelle-duggar-courtship.htm) hopefully I'm posting the link correctly.  It also says that he's been a policeman??? Did I miss him going to the academy, pretty sure you can't be a volunteer policeman like you can a firefighter?                                                                                                                             

[Temperance]

That's how I feel every single time we watch the kids engage in a special activity. "Oh, here, Hannie, you better enjoy this 30 minutes on a horse, because you will never do this again". It's depressing. Frankly, I'm surprised riding a horse isn't seen as defrauding the women in some crazy way. 

Yeah actually seeing riding horses as defrauding men and women would be consistent with historical views of horseback riding. In the nineteenth  century etc.  women rode side saddle, because riding astride was considered vulgar and too much pelvic stimulation. I don't know too much about it, so you can google side saddle to find out more about the practice. In side saddle, they put both legs on one side of the horse.  I'm not surprised Michelle doesn't know her history to know about the side saddle tradition, but I could see them thinking it a good idea.

Edited October 9, 2014 by Temperance

[cereality]

I can't see JB allowing JD to live alone pre-marriage. I also thought the house was so he'd have a home that he'd fix up in preparation for marriage; given that that was yrs ago and the home is probably ready, not wanting to sell, I'm guessing JB is allowing him to rent it out. This way when he goes courting, he can tell the girl's dad that he owns his own home which is completely liveable and is in fact being lived in by a renter, but when he marries the girl -- that will be their own.

 

Too much "risk" for JB and Michelle to let a 24 yr old man live alone. What if he went out and bought a laptop or a TV and discovered porn or even just discovered regular TV shows watched by heathens. What if he made friends -- as obnoxious as his personality is, I could see him finding 1-2 dorky dudes to hang out and drink beer while playing video games. What if he met a girl and brought her over and [gasp] hugged or kissed her, let alone went all the way -- JB and Michelle would have no way of knowing when to send over a chaperone. And not to be crude but a 24 yr old male who doesn't have and has never had a gf may "take care" of his needs in the privacy of his own home; JB and Michelle can't be having that; better to leave him in a room with his 8 little brothers as nothing will stop such activity as Jackson in JD's face saying "what are you doing? does that hurt? can I try?"

[Sew Sumi]

JD is a town constable, which I believe was an elected position. I remember Smuggar posting a pic to instagram when they found a judge to swear him in at exactly midnight on New Year's Day a couple of years ago. So no, not a real cop, but Tonitown is small, so I bet he likely knows the entire force.

[nccueagle84]

JD is a town constable, which I believe was an elected position. I remember Smuggar posting a pic to instagram when they found a judge to swear him in at exactly midnight on New Year's Day a couple of years ago. So no, not a real cop, but Tonitown is small, so I bet he likely knows the entire force.

Michelle stated in the blog I linked "He’s also getting his pilot license right now and he’s been a fireman and a police officer, and now he’s a constable." From the way she phrased that sentence I took it as 2 completely separate things.

[juneday]

It was great to see Hannie so confident and relaxed on the horse, but it made me sad in a way. None of the Duggar children are really allowed to pursue any interests or hobbies that are unique to them. They're only allowed to do fun things when the cameras are rolling and J'Chelle needs to shut the internet critics up. I doubt Michelle has taken Jessa out for coffee or played chess with Jeremiah since those episodes aired.

Yes yes yes! That's one of the things that bothers me most about this family. They have nineteen children, yet none of them seem to have individual interests or hobbies. Jill may be a midwife and actually enjoy it, but I don't believe that they *all* enjoy learning to play violin and piano. And what if Hannie actually turned out to be interested in horses and horseback riding and its different forms? Would they take her for real riding lessons and let her further her interest?

I doubt it. That's not one of the pre-approved Fundie activities is it, and that's sad.

[trimthatfat]

I am with Jessa on the hand washing. There's no reason to not explain to a kid why you'd wash your hands after eating a greasy pizza. I never made up bullshit excuses to my kids--they have to learn.

 

I thought Jessa and Ben had good points. The grease would make it difficult to use the controls AND it's gross to not wash your hands after eating.  I don't think Ben gave a BS excuse. I felt a little bad for him when his face sank a little.

[cereality]

Yes yes yes! That's one of the things that bothers me most about this family. They have nineteen children, yet none of them seem to have individual interests or hobbies. Jill may be a midwife and actually enjoy it, but I don't believe that they *all* enjoy learning to play violin and piano. And what if Hannie actually turned out to be interested in horses and horseback riding and its different forms? Would they take her for real riding lessons and let her further her interest?

I doubt it. That's not one of the pre-approved Fundie activities is it, and that's sad.

I don't know if it's a fundie thing or a Duggar thing. It is a fundie thing that girls shouldn't be too tomboy-ish -- JoyAnna even said that she and Hannie were similar in that regard and Hannie is just getting out of the "wrestling with boys stage." I think they deem a lot of "fun" things boy-ish -- anything involving playing games or sports or having hobbies or doing anything besides housework or traditionally female things like sewing. Thus even if she is interested, I could see them allowing a hobby for a little while and then taking the view -- sorry, you need to learn to keep house like a proper woman.

 

I do think it's a Duggar thing to lump all the kids together though and assume that they ALL want to play violin or piano or whatever. When you hear the Bates talk about their kids, they are able to mention individual hobbies -- so-and-so likes horses or hunting or whatever. The Duggars aren't able to do that and say generic things about all the kids like they have a "servants heart." They live in a small rural town, I don't understand why it would be so hard to get Hannie and whoever else is interested into horseback riding -- either paying for lessons or striking up a deal with a local farmer for the kids to ride in return for some work on the farm or whatever. Similarly I also don't get -- are fundies opposed to team sports? With 19 kids and about 8-9 boys, how is it that no one plays basketball, baseball or football for a community team or even a school team (as homeschool kids are often allowed to go public schools for ECs)? I think this is true of the Bates as well -- surely there's got to be one sports fanatic in both families, no? I realize they don't want their kids socializing with non-Christians but living in such rural, conservative areas -- I am guessing 100% of the guys on a football team will be Christian though maybe not Gothard; are they going to indoctrinate the kids on 3rd down?!

[Joe Jitsu913]

JD is a town constable, which I believe was an elected position. I remember Smuggar posting a pic to instagram when they found a judge to swear him in at exactly midnight on New Year's Day a couple of years ago. So no, not a real cop, but Tonitown is small, so I bet he likely knows the entire force.

JD ran unopposed in his bid for constable. Winning only by default. He was sworn in at a gas station/quickie mart. Sounds legit, right? I guess his job probably pays next to nothing which is why no one else bid for it.

I find it interesting that Boob and mullett do not allow their eldest children to pursue decent paying careers. Are they afraid their children might be more "successful" than Mullet and Boob? Or is just a control issue? For example, Jill wanted to be a nurse but she has to settle for lay midwife. Josh wanted to be a lawyer / politician- he had to settle for the car lot and working for a hate group.

JD wanted to be a pilot. He has to settle for being a constable and family pilot.

So much potential wasted in what could be legitimate careers.

Edited October 9, 2014 by Joe Jitsu913

[GEML]

Temperance - I was taught that by Jewish tradition, Jesus probably studied with a rabbi for many years, living and/or traveling with his Teacher in order to gain his own what we would call ordination or ability to be called Rabbi. This was why he began calling his own disciples to follow his - all of which had to leave their own families to do so.

[bigskygirl]

The thought of John David becoming a regular full time law enforcement officer scares me. Did he have any training at all to be a constable? How would he make a split second decision in the face of a dangerous situation. I hope he has to report to a paid regular full time officer.

[WTFFF]

 

Does the family ever do anything useful for this world?

 

Only when it's being filmed.  Ever notice that whenever they recount their acts of charity, they only mention things we see on the show?  Why, it's almost like they never do anything otherwise! 

 

 

Did I doze off? Please let me know in which episode was Michelle talking about "leaving the house" and driving, etc, being a privilege that had to be earned? I'd love to re-watch that segment.

 

I think it was a pre-Josie episode, but I can't remember specifically.  I'm in the process of trying to find that episode now, and I'll edit this post if I manage to find it.  I'm pretty sure it was before they went grocery shopping, but we've seen that a few times.  The driving comment was made in the episode where Josiah is getting his permit. 

Edit: http://40.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5ipvaUeou1r8mb1io1_1280.jpg  It was Cheaper by the Duggars.  She mentions it before they go thrift shopping.

Edited October 9, 2014 by WTFFF

[cereality]

Does the chaperone requirement ever go away? i.e. was that a requirement when JD was a teen and now in his mid-20s he can work without his sisters following him, or no? If it doesn't, he can forget having any kind of job other than maybe construction. In all other jobs I can think of, there is exposure to females. I'm guessing Derick works with women in his department and perish the thought, he may even have a few female managers that he reports to; same is true in most corporate settings these days, and I'm not sure you can negotiate a deal where you'll take a job only if your sister can sit in your cubicle 8 hrs a day. As for fireman -- mostly male and a male reporting structure, but I'm sure JB and Michelle are worried about what he'd see on calls; I mean a female could be calling the fire department just to seduce JD. And let's not even start with cops and EMTs who routinely have to enter homes where females live; sometimes those females are sick or in need of help in domestic violence cases or whatever and may not be worrying about being covered head to toe at all times.

 

I'm guessing this is a made up Duggar rule. The Bates had a son who was county commissioner, and it didn't seem like Erin or another sister was sitting in his office 8 hrs a day. They have another son who is pursuing some kind of (Christian) music side project and it seems like he travels to Colorado as he's found producers willing to work with him -- again haven't seen pics of a sister with him, even though there's lots of defrauding that can happen in airports and in a brand new city. Maybe the Duggars should take a lesson from their "best" friends.

[Ripley68]

Forgot to post about Josie and the other J talking about Jessa and Ben.  I was trying  to figure out if Josie was repeating the other girls words because she has issues, or if she was repeating them because they had tried to get the girls to memorize those lines.

[BitterApple]

Forgot to post about Josie and the other J talking about Jessa and Ben.  I was trying  to figure out if Josie was repeating the other girls words because she has issues, or if she was repeating them because they had tried to get the girls to memorize those lines.

I think it's a toss up. I've oftentimes wondered if the little kids were having their lines fed to them in some of their TH's. 

[WTFFF]

Jackson and Johannah used to talk in that weird semi-unison too, so I've always assumed they're trying to script the THs without realizing that these kids have been raised to have literally no attention span.

[bigskygirl]

The older girls was sent to join the fire department to keep an eye on their brothers so they would not get defrauded. I cannot picture a fire department allowing someone's sister to join up to keep an eye on him.

[starfire]

JD ran unopposed in his bid for constable. Winning only by default. He was sworn in at a gas station/quickie mart. Sounds legit, right?

 

 

Any job where you are sworn in at midnight at the local gas station sounds pretty darn important.

[mythoughtis]

I really can't be too offended by a 'driving is a privilege that has to be earned' comment, as long as it relates to 1.driving skills. 2. reading ability (traffic signs), 3. vision or medical issues, 4. maturity to make good choices.  In Alabama, you can get your instruction permit at 14.   I think most parents are cautious in letting their children take a 3400 lb car out on the road by themselves. 

 

I am offended by the fact that they used a school parking lot to set up their derby, when schools are too evil for them.   I am offended by the fact that 20-some year olds were not asked but just expected to spend their day being scorekeepers, etc.  I am offended by Jim Bob not letting JD build ramps without trying to tell him how even after stating that JD was a 'pretty good carpenter'.  He's not a 12 year old using those tools, worry about the actual 12 year olds.  Why not enter an actual soap box derby with other people.....similar to Josh entering an actual 5K race rather than setting up a fake one to be filmed. 

[Portia]

Every time I see a reference to JD being a constable, I think of Dwight Schrute bragging about being a "volunteer sheriff's deputy." As I recall, that was eventually revealed to be some kind of program for children.

[ranchgirl]

I know that JD, Jana and I think Jill were volunteer 1st responders with the fire department, but I sure don't remember it being mentioned that JD was a police man.  Wonder if Jechelle stretched the truth on that one? 

 

I do hope if JD is renting his home he earned by clearing off that lot, that he is able to put that money aside and Jim Boob isn't taking it. 

 

After reading what Jechelle had to say about courtship, I can't believe Jim Boob let Ben even talk to Jessa.   Ben has no way to support a household or provide for a house and Jessa certainly isn't going to work to help out.   I wish TLC would call Jim Boob and Jechelle out on this.   And what do Jana and Jinger do all day?   I can't imagine being their age and just doing their Mom's housework and looking after their siblings all day.  So sad.  

Edited October 9, 2014 by ranchgirl

[bigskygirl]

The thought of a Duggar coming to my rescue scares the heck out of me. A grown man and one of his sisters coming along to make sure I do not defraud him. Seriously... What happens if he has to deal with a domestic abuse case and has to arrest the husband or boyfriend. I hope they have a regular full time officer backing him up because he probably would want to blame the wife of girlfriend for not obeying the man aka the boss. I also would like to know if he had any sufficient training.

[GEML]

The comparison of the 5K and the Derby Race is really kind of clever. There are the Duggers, putting an enormous amount of energy and effort into something that is still only for them. When Josh was growing up, he still could have had fun doing a race, but it was purely internal.

But he's not going to raise his children that way. His children are watching Daddy in a big public race with people from all over - people racing in a TUTU! Sure, they can shelter their children in many ways. But they aren't an internal family. Josh and Anna are teaching their children that you can be in the world but not of it.

That's an ENORMOUS difference.

[juneday]

Every time I see a reference to JD being a constable, I think of Dwight Schrute bragging about being a "volunteer sheriff's deputy." As I recall, that was eventually revealed to be some kind of program for children.

I think of Barney Fife. But worse-a smug, know-it-all Barney Fife.

[trimthatfat]

Imo, Josh and Anna cannot think for themselves. They go along with what they were taught by their parents because they do not know any better. Josh spends his working hours trying to recruit people for God's Army. Anna was calling out brides in America for thinking their wedding day is about them, but the day is suppose to be about Jesus. In otherwords, you can take Josh and Anna away from mommy and daddy, but you not take mommy and daddy and their way of thinking away from them.

 

When you've been indoctrinated since birth to believe x, y, and z, it is very difficult to break away from that thinking/brainwashing as an adult. I don't expect any of the children to suddenly realize that their beliefs are oppressive and dangerous. It's why I'm not surprised that children raised in the teachings of Westboro Baptist Church end up racist, sexist, homophobic assholes with nothing better to do than picket the funeral of innocent people. That's an extreme example, obviously, but it was just to illustrate the point that when you raise a child to hate and to believe this group and that group are damned to hell, they will likely remain ignorant well into adulthood.  I would love if Josh and Anna saw the light, but unfortunately, the odds of this are extremely low. I have a little hope that the next generation of Duggars will be more open-minded.

Edited October 9, 2014 by trimthatfat

[bigskygirl]

I really wonder if Josh and/or Anna are reading forums and facebook to see what the viewers are thinking about them and their new life in D.C. Are they are moving away from the family and doing things a little differently with the kiddies or are they trying to fix the damage cause by Josh working for a hate group and prove the heathens wrong.

[glowlights]

Yeah actually seeing riding horses as defrauding men and women would be consistent with historical views of horseback riding. In the nineteenth  century etc.  women rode side saddle, because riding astride was considered vulgar and too much pelvic stimulation. I don't know too much about it, so you can google side saddle to find out more about the practice. In side saddle, they put both legs on one side of the horse.  I'm not surprised Michelle doesn't know her history to know about the side saddle tradition, but I could see them thinking it a good idea.

 

Also, riding can break a girl's hymen (truly!), and then she can't prove she's a virgin and no man will have her. Not to mention the aforementioned "funny feeling" one may experience en route to saddle-induced hymen destruction. And the hip thrusting action if you're riding with an English saddle is akin to dancing like Elvis. *sigh* I hope Hannie or any other Duggar girl makes the most of her brief time on horseback.

 

VERY GOOD POINT upthread about the Duggars using a school lot for their Derby crap given their attitudes toward public education.

 

I think Josh and/or Anna read forums and message boards. Heck, I think Jim Bob and/or MEchelle read. How could they resist anything that's all about them?

[GEML]

Huh, I think a wedding isn't about just me and my day, but also about my husband's and my's relationship to God. That's part of the reason we had a church wedding and took sacred vows. Didn't realize I was just brainwashed! Glad to know! :)

[Barb23]

Any job where you are sworn in at midnight at the local gas station sounds pretty darn important.

And precious

[maraleia]

Also, riding can break a girl's hymen (truly!), and then she can't prove she's a virgin and no man will have her. Not to mention the aforementioned "funny feeling" one may experience en route to saddle-induced hymen destruction. And the hip thrusting action if you're riding with an English saddle is akin to dancing like Elvis. *sigh* I hope Hannie or any other Duggar girl makes the most of her brief time on horseback.

 

VERY GOOD POINT upthread about the Duggars using a school lot for their Derby crap given their attitudes toward public education.

 

I think Josh and/or Anna read forums and message boards. Heck, I think Jim Bob and/or MEchelle read. How could they resist anything that's all about them?

FYI some information about a woman's hymen...and no it doesn't break for any reason.

http://www.yourtango.com/201172815/7-things-you-didnt-know-about-hymen

[glowlights]

Well now my (old) family doctor, riding instructor and mother have SOME 'SPLAININ TO DO. And here I was all worried about Diana Spencer when she had to be inspected for virginity... Guess I'm no better than Jim Bob who thought getting chicken pox means you can't get shingles. lol

[KitKat]

I thought Jessa and Ben had good points. The grease would make it difficult to use the controls AND it's gross to not wash your hands after eating.  I don't think Ben gave a BS excuse. I felt a little bad for him when his face sank a little.

I think it was scripted, all these kids have been traveling etc. for most of their youth.  I have trouble believing this is the first time they have been in a situation where clean hands were important and were to stupid to just wash their hands.

[Temperance]

I find it interesting that Boob and mullett do not allow their eldest children to pursue decent paying careers. Are they afraid their children might be more "successful" than Mullet and Boob? Or is just a control issue? For example, Jill wanted to be a nurse but she has to settle for lay midwife. Josh wanted to be a lawyer / politician- he had to settle for the car lot and working for a hate group.

JD wanted to be a pilot. He has to settle for being a constable and family pilot.

So much potential wasted in what could be legitimate careers.

The snag the Duggars kids keep hitting is the parents and Gothard's anti-education stance (among other things). 

The Duggars do not believe in public education. They home school the kids, which may not give them a full high school education. (Things like higher mathematics and foreign language are not probably not covered.)  They also don't believe in college, and of course living away from home.

It is being debated on the Josh and Anna thread whether or not Josh could be a lawyer without an undergrad degree. I personally had never heard of such a thing, and I think it is highly dubious that one can be come a lawyer without one. Going to nursing school is as rigorous an education as a college degree. It is debatable that Duggars schooling methods have given their children to succeed in higher education, (which is not to say they couldn't but they would need more help).

They also don't believe in higher education, but Gothard doesn't. Also the cost is prohibitive. I read an article about a family with five children spending a million on college. Times four and then grandchildren?

There are probably a lot more reasons that the Duggars don't like education, but that's what's limiting them in terms of career choices.

I thought they said JD is working on getting his pilot's licence. I am not sure what education requirements are for pilots. 

If the kids want, they could do a lot of things if they left home and mom and dad, and found a way to pay for it.

Edited October 10, 2014 by Temperance

[KitKat]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/super-dad-who-fathered-16-children-4394449   What a difference....

[GEML]

There really isn't any reason a family has to spend a million dollars on four children going to college. Again, some perspective. Most state schools aren't anywhere near $250,000 for the four year experience, and if you did reasonably well in high school (or are willing to work hard in community college to make up two years) you will be eligible for merit scholarships at most private colleges. The people paying full price are almost always those attending for profit colleges, those unwilling to relocate from the area and cast a wider net, or those with parents making a lot of money filling out not only the FAFSA, but the supplemental form (for the record, we filled out this form.)

The Duggars could send their children to very good and affordable state schools within commuting distance of their home. They could certainly work part time to supplement. There's NO WAY it would cost them millions of dollars unless they wanted to pay it.

[juneday]

I won't go into detail, but a lot of females get a "special feeling" when riding horses. I think Mommy may have found a new hobby.

Maybe some women do, but I ride English and jump, and also ride Western, and have for years. And have never gotten a "special feeling" besides soreness. Lol.

And I can definitely see the Duggars making their daughters ride side-saddle or not at all. Riding pants would be a no-go!

[WTFFF]

 

I really can't be too offended by a 'driving is a privilege that has to be earned' comment, as long as it relates to 1.driving skills. 2. reading ability (traffic signs), 3. vision or medical issues, 4. maturity to make good choices.  In Alabama, you can get your instruction permit at 14.   I think most parents are cautious in letting their children take a 3400 lb car out on the road by themselves.

 

In theory, I agree, but we all know what maturity means in the Duggar household.  I feel pretty sure that it's code for "sufficiently broken so as not to be a flight risk," and something held over the kids' heads to keep them in line.  Show a non-Gothard approved emotion?  No leaving the property! 

 

The Duggar girls ride horses in skirts.  I keep waiting for one to get dragged when they fall off and it gets tangled in the stirrup leathers.

[Temperance]

Temperance - I was taught that by Jewish tradition, Jesus probably studied with a rabbi for many years, living and/or traveling with his Teacher in order to gain his own what we would call ordination or ability to be called Rabbi. This was why he began calling his own disciples to follow his - all of which had to leave their own families to do so.

That's an interesting theory. There are lots of theories and interesting debates about the parts of Jesus's life not covered in the bible and even the stuff that is covered.  In different traditions, Jesus does different things with the part of his life not covered.  It's certainly possible he studied or lived with a teacher. On the hand, in the only story of his early life is when he impresses the rabbis in the temple with his knowledge of scripture and wisdom at the age of twelve. People hear different things, I have mainly heard he lived at home. I also heard that just because he lived at home didn't mean he didn't have going out and seeing more of the world. It's also clear that he both challenged and was unaccepted by many more traditional schools of thought of the time. Having an unusual background might have further prejudice against him. It was his disciples and the lay people who mainly called him rabbi. 

According to Jewish tradition (that I've been told) he would also be married by the time he started his ministry. And yet according to most traditions, he was unmarried until his death, although there has been speculation about that. 

It is hard to say how traditions might have influenced him and also whether he followed them and to what extent he followed them.

Do you know who is Teacher is supposed to been? This is really interesting; thanks for sharing.

Edited October 10, 2014 by Temperance