S05.E04: The End

[DittyDotDot]

Zachariah takes Dean five years into the future to show him the consequences of not helping the angels.

 

This is probably the best episode of S5 for me. We see the scope of what could come and they don't go over the top with the future stuff so it doesn't come off as a cheesy ridiculous futuristic episode. The production design for this episode was outstanding and really made this post-apocalyptic world feel real. It's fun to see Chuck again and it's even funnier to have him talk about toilet paper hording. I love hopeless, hapless Cass and think Misha was outstanding. Jensen finds that perfect line between the two versions of Dean that we don't need a goofy scar or mustache to be able to tell which Dean is which--some seriously subtle and great shit here. And, Jared as Lucifer at the end of the episode is rather disturbing and unsettling, as he should be--the leisure suit might have been a little over-the-top, though, but really it doesn't bother me. It seems everyone was on their game here.

 

I also find the commentary on the DVDs with fanboy Kripke, savant Edlund and old curmudgeon Singer to be one of the most entertaining commentaries ever!

[mertensia]

I still want to know why Lucifer (or Zachariah) thinks a white leisure suit with white grandpa shoes is a stylish and happenng look.

Poor Dean. If it really was a construct of Zachariah's Dean admitted to liking wearing Rhonda's pink panties to him. He's probably lucky Zachariah didn't have Michael try to lure him with a pair.

[supposebly]

I don't think either of them is up on current fashion trends. They can barely stand to be around humans, why would they know or care about fashion?

 

I thought it worked, it gave Lucifer an appropriate otherworldly, out-of-this world appearance that looked completely and utterly wrong.

 

I think Lucifer's appearance paralleled nicely Sam feeling "wrong" in the world and his family a lot in his life. Lucifer's appearance seemed to embody that without a word. In all his arrogance, he didn't belong anywhere.

 

In short, I loved the suit. I want to marry whoever chose it.

[DittyDotDot]

Apparently it was Sera Gamble's idea--according to the commentary anyway.

[AwesomO4000]

I loved the suit too. I thought it reflected how Lucifer sees himself as the "innocent victim" in the conflict: how he thinks he was wronged for his perfectly reasonable (according to him) actions and it was just that Michael didn't back him up and sacrificed him to keep the peace. So for me, that Lucifer chose a white suit, trying to portray his "innocence" in the whole thing even as he helps to create the horror happening around him and blames it on everyone else is just the thing his arrogant, delusional ass would do. It made me think "what a douche bag" and "what a dick" which is perfect - 'cause he is.

 

I found Future Dean quite disturbing myself and would like to known the point/thing that made him go all Machiavellian, since even when faced with extreme circumstance before he never had. Even with going that route though, it's still hard for me to accept that he'd send his friends in as cannon fodder and not try to find another plan. I would personally have liked to have seen Future Dean dabbling a bit more in the black magic arts, as to me that would have been a more viable option in fighting Lucifer than the straight-forward approach. It would've still represented Dean compromising his beliefs, but not necessarily sacrificing others as apparently a first option.

[7kstar]

I loved the suit too. I thought it reflected how Lucifer sees himself as the "innocent victim" in the conflict:

 

I found Future Dean quite disturbing myself and would like to known the point/thing that made him go all Machiavellian, since even when faced with extreme circumstance before he never had. Even with going that route though, it's still hard for me to accept that he'd send his friends in as cannon fodder and not try to find another plan. I would personally have liked to have seen Future Dean dabbling a bit more in the black magic arts, as to me that would have been a more viable option in fighting Lucifer than the straight-forward approach. It would've still represented Dean compromising his beliefs, but not necessarily sacrificing others as apparently a first option.

I agree the white suit was really off-settling.  It works especially with Jared's expressions.

 

I wonder if the reason Dean went off the rails was Zach trying too hard to sell Dean on look this is what you will become.  This is a weakness in the script. 

 

But Jensen's performance...wow.   It truly is interesting watching two Dean's that are not alike but yet we get that Dean lies and can call his future self on it.  I know they were going for this is what Dean became when he only had torturing left...but it is a strong reason for Dean to reunite with Sam in spite of his misgivings.  It is one of the top eps in season 5 for me.

[supposebly]

I wonder why they didn't use the suit in Swan Song. Michael then could have used the Standard Angel black suit like Zachariah wore. That would have nicely offset the traditional Black=Evil, White=Good cliche and would have provided a nice visual contrast to grungy Bobby, Castiel, and leatherjacket-clad Dean.

 

Maybe, then they wouldn't have looked so....human.

Edited November 5, 2014 by supposebly

[Blue Castle]

I've only started watching Supernatural recently on netflix, but it's really nice to see that almost every episode has some discussion here!

 

I agree that this is the best of season 5 (and that was a great season) and in fact, this may be my favorite episode of the entire series (that I've seen so far).  Mainly because the future seems really, believably grim (the hoarding toliet paper line is hilarious but also lends some good realism to the situation) but also because I think this episode nicely explores the importance of both the Dean and Sam sibling bond and the Dean and Cas friendship.  The Dean and Sam thing is spelled out explicitly (and I also like how Dean's choice in this episode to take Sam back really does save them both throughout the season) but Cas' importance to Dean is simply shown without being heavily emphasized.  One of my favorite things is how Future Cas is this goofy love guru without any special angel powers, but he's still always willing to die for Dean (even crazy future Dean).  I know there's this whole Destiel thing (and I can see it) but for me Cas is important to Dean because he's the person Dean always deserved but never got until he went to hell.  He's like a brother that Dean doesn't have to constantly worry about (and that's not Sam's fault, it's their childhoods' fault, but still).  So I love how he saves Dean from Zach and just says, "We had an appointment."  Good old Cas.

 

But everything in this episode is good.  I was impressed with Jared Padalecki's take on Lucifer and I also felt for him at the end when he's so grateful that Dean is taking him back.   I even like how the woman in Future Dean's crew is written and I wish maybe she'd turn up later in the main timeline.

[GirlyGeek]

Just got to this episode today and I hadn't seen it in a couple years.  It stands up so well and is still one of my favorites.

 

I don't have much to add that wasn't already said here, but I do so love the subtle but striking differences between future Dean and our Dean.  Like it was said above, we didn't need facial hair differences or scars or drastic wardrobe changes to know who was who and that was all Jensen.  And the line "because you'd only be hurting yourself?"  still made me laugh out loud.  

 

I also appreciate Jared's portrayal of Lucifer at the end.  Creepy.  And I didn't feel like he was a mustache twirling villain... Lucifer believes what he's saying, believes he's innocent, believes he's not evil, and that was portrayed very well.

Dean's expressions through the whole scene were perfect.  Dread and fear and despair all mixed together.  Seriously, can't be said enough that Jensen is amazing.

I can't wait to see what he does after Supernatural.

[catrox14]

This is my favorite of the series. I can watch this over and over and I never get tired of it.


Jensen is just unreal in this episode. He made such smart subtle choice s playing endverse ! Dean. He mad Dean different enough that I can see our Dean becoming that hard, regretful, yet still snarky Dean. He changed Deans posture just ever so slightly to reflect a harder soldier with complete confidence that what he did was both right and wrong. He knew his mistakes but was determined to do what he needed to do anyway.

And those leg holsters? Sheesh that was all kinds of hot.

 I thought Jared just nailed his turn as Lucifer, but I don't think that the scene would have been as powerful without Jensen giving the performance he did with the profound fear of Lucifer but seeing him in his brother's body.  You could see how Dean knew it was not Sam but was saying that he would kill him anyway. It was just such a wonderful scene and so very sad and scary at the same time.  Guh. LOVE IT SO MUCH.

Edited March 1, 2015 by catrox14

[rue721]

Well, forewarning, this is a long bitter "unpopular opinion" of a rant that probably nobody will agree with. But it's about this episode, so figured it belonged in this specific thread anyway!

 

I was feeling for Dean in that teaser. What can he do? He's never able to say no to Sam for long. He has to be a million miles away and incommunicado with him, or else he's going to be giving and giving until he's given his last dollar/his life/his soul/etc to him. I don't think Sam realizes it or asks for it, but it's frustrating to watch regardless. Tbh that's what makes it much more frustrating to watch, for me. Sometimes it's like Sam is just this giant sucking wound of need and...I mean, he was literally living off of other people's blood and demonic power and now that he's kicked that "habit," he's turned his full focus on Dean, and he's so hungry for -- I don't even know what, I don't even think it's ever explained or that Sam knows -- that he's going to sink his fangs into Dean and he's going to suck him dry before he even realizes what he's doing and loooong before he gets full.

 

I know that's a hideous way to put it, and I genuinely *like* Sam, and I know he's always feeling like WHAT NOW?! because he's *always* being ~chosen~ by something evil to be the one that needs help and ruins things for everyone, maybe the entire world, and obviously he hates that -- but *even though* he hates that, he's still dangerous even when he's trying his best to be *helpful,* in fact, he might be at his *most* dangerous when he's trying to be helpful...Idk, I felt like Sam calling Dean asking to come back into the game, was like the SPN version of when the horror movie heroine (Dean) is standing at the top of the stairs to the dark, foreboding basement, and then there's a sound from the basement (Sam's call), and she starts going down the steps to check it out, and you want to scream at the movie screen, DON'T GO DOWN THERE YOU FOOL YOU'RE GOING TO BE TORN TO SHREDS.

 

This episode isn't one that's close to my heart, because I just see it as one long, painful emotional manipulation of Dean. The episode is well done from start to finish, no complaints. But I just hate watching that. I think it was Demented Daisy who brought up feeling like Long Distance Call was manipulative. I agreed, but in that one, it felt to me like a manipulation that Dean needed to make himself feel better. He knew in his heart that the call and his dad being able/willing to help him was fake, but he needed to have a couple days of hope and guidance, and if fake was all he could get, he would take it. Honestly, *I* found those calls reassuring, too, and totally get why he'd need some reassurance right before he's about to get dragged into Hell and there's nobody around to protect him. Fake is better than nothing. But The End feels manipulative to me in a much more sinister way. Because imo, in The End, he's getting manipulated into sacrificing himself. He sees this vision of the future in which he's lost his humanity completely and Sam is gone and replaced by the devil, and it's this gigantic warning with flashing red lights that if he keeps letting himself relax and feel like his own person living his own life, which is how I interpreted what he was starting to feel was happening from what he said at the end of Free to Be You and Me, that the world will *literally* go to Hell and he and his brother will be killed and damned. Ugh I have my own personal baggage with that, that if you have your own life or your own perspective or feelings that you're *literally* killing the people you love because they need you as a crutch -- and, to torture the metaphor to death, a crutch needs to *always and only* do its job of propping someone up, or else it's worthless and leaving someone crippled...but I find that so upsetting to watch Dean get pressured and pressured and pressured, by freaking "messengers of God" even, to go back to doing that job, until he finally does. And then convinces himself it's best for ~everybody~ that he's doing it, even himself. That leaves *such* a bitter taste in my mouth. Not to put so much weight on a reasonably fun zombie "apocalyptic future" SL, but this episode actually feels very heavy to me because that's what I see in it. YMMV.

 

Well anyway! The good stuff:

 

Dean:  "What are you, a hippie?"

Cas:  "[sigh] I thought you'd gotten over trying to label me!"

Perfect! I also agree about this version of Cas being somehow spot-on. And I like him much better this way! And I like that he was laughing at 2009!Dean and when 2014!Dean gave him a ~look~, he was like, *shrug* "I like past you." That made their relationship even in the present day make so much more sense to me. Ah, so Cas just gets a kick out of Dean, he just enjoys the guy. OK, I can get that. LOL.

 

I actually liked future!Dean until it turned out he was using all his friends as decoys! That was horrifying.

 

I loved how bullshitty Lucifer sounded when he was telling the supposed story of why he got cast into Hell. It made me laugh. You could tell just by hearing that story that it had a passing resemblance *at best* with how literally anyone else would describe what had happened to get Lucifer sent "downstairs." No wonder Michael wants to kill Lucifer, he's a complete PITA. I also liked his white patent leather loafers and vanilla ice cream suit, he looked like the biggest sleaze to ever sleaze. You could just see him hanging out with Tony Montana. Here's basically how Future!Lucifer!Sam looked, imo:

 

[supposebly]

Something that came out of a discussion in Hammer of Gods.

 

I think, within the show, overall, Gods exist and have power because people believe in them. Faith gives Gods power and the fewer people believe in them, the less power they have. What they do with it is up to them. Paris Hilton was complaining about that too (I forget what she was) and I think we've seen quite few gods who've had similar problems. I think that probably applies to angels, God and Lucifer as well. Of course, it's not clear why God is still absent unless Free Will is why. No more interference, no paradise, no more creation.

 

I keep thinking about this whole Free Will thing when it comes to Lucifer. On the one hand, he rebels against God, counter to what the angels do, thus becomes the proponent of free will and introduces the concept to humanity, effectively destroying paradise.

And then he complains about what humans with their free will have done to paradise, so the apocalypse is supposed to do away with humanity.

My question is, is the apocalypse something that God anticipated and is thus something that the angels (including Lucifer) think has to happen (including the death match between Lucifer and Michael) and that's the reason Lucifer initiates it?

Or did he initiate it because he was bored of the cage and needed a change of scenery, thus the apocalypse is a result of free will and the death match happens because Michael won't stand for Lucifer completely destroying humanity, thus accepting the collateral damage coming out of the death match?

 

I might be biased because I find Lucifer overall an fascinating character in the show but I do get the grudge. He got locked up for something that he introduced. And the show does celebrate Free Will, so it all feels a bit hypocritical. If I ignore the temper tantrums, egomania, and mass genocide, of course ;-)

[catrox14]

Just caught this on TNT.

 

Yeah, I think this still is my favorite episode of the show EVER. 

 

Jensen is so godsdamn amazing playing two distinct versions of Dean. And it's such a subtle but obvious change not based on hair, or even clothing. It's an internal change and it's amazing. Fucking crime that he doesn't have an Emmy nomination for this. Ugh.

 

And Jared was just incredible as Samifer. So smarmy and petty.

 

I can't help but think Future!Cas is like Misha would be if he was in the 60s.

 

Man, I love this episode so damn much.

[AwesomO4000]

Jensen is so godsdamn amazing playing two distinct versions of Dean. And it's such a subtle but obvious change not based on hair, or even clothing. It's an internal change and it's amazing. Fucking crime that he doesn't have an Emmy nomination for this. Ugh.

 

And Jared was just incredible as Samifer. So smarmy and petty.

 

"I win, so... I win."

 

That could've been such a cheesy line, but instead I thought it was creepy and somewhat chilling... and of course Jensen/Dean's reaction look of broken hopelessness underlined with terror just sold it even more.

 

For me, this is what season 5 got right... the more subtle evil and more slowly building feeling of the world closing in rather than the more in your face feeling that season 4 sometimes was (for me anyway.) Like when Uriel and Castiel were demanding/complaining every other episode about the seals and OMG we have to stop them from breaking now! ... even though that wasn't actually the case (and the angels didn't appear to be working all that hard to try. Based on the number of angels we ended up seeing later, they should've been able to wipe out a whole bunch of demons and guard any number of seals if they really wanted to stop the seals from breaking - bah humbug.)

 

And for me, that actually made it somewhat annoying when a seal did break and they'd be all "oh well, we'll get the next one"... until they started with the supposed urgency again, simultaneously driving Dean and Sam crazy with that while at the same time telling them - well Sam anyway - not to use his powers to help stop the seals from breaking. That and the in your face grimness.

 

I liked this subtle warning build of season 5 better. Just my opinion, but I found Lucifer's "I win, so... I win" much more creepy and foreboding than all of Uriel's raging and warnings about the seals breaking.

[catrox14]

"I win, so... I win."

 

That could've been such a cheesy line, but instead I thought it was creepy and somewhat chilling... and of course Jensen/Dean's reaction look of broken hopelessness underlined with terror just sold it even more.

 

For me, this is what season 5 got right... the more subtle evil and more slowly building feeling of the world closing in rather than the more in your face feeling that season 4 sometimes was (for me anyway.) Like when Uriel and Castiel were demanding/complaining every other episode about the seals and OMG we have to stop them from breaking now! ... even though that wasn't actually the case (and the angels didn't appear to be working all that hard to try. Based on the number of angels we ended up seeing later, they should've been able to wipe out a whole bunch of demons and guard any number of seals if they really wanted to stop the seals from breaking - bah humbug.)

 

And for me, that actually made it somewhat annoying when a seal did break and they'd be all "oh well, we'll get the next one"... until they started with the supposed urgency again, simultaneously driving Dean and Sam crazy with that while at the same time telling them - well Sam anyway - not to use his powers to help stop the seals from breaking. That and the in your face grimness.

 

I liked this subtle warning build of season 5 better. Just my opinion, but I found Lucifer's "I win, so... I win" much more creepy and foreboding than all of Uriel's raging and warnings about the seals breaking.

 

 

Agree 100% with Jared's line reading of "I win....so....I win".  It was so matter of fact and tinged with just the right amount of smug.

 

Sooo great.

[Dobian]

I really liked how you could tell the difference between Dean and future Dean even though they looked exactly the same, just by future Dean's vocal inflections and demeanor.  Cas the hippie guru was both funny and sad.  And Chuck's line about toilet paper being like gold in the apocalypse - so very true.  I also enjoyed Sam/Lucifer.  What makes Lucifer great is that you can understand where he's coming from.  He's not some cliched psychopath bad guy like you see on so many other shows (cough, Walking Dead, cough).  He's a villain, but not a villain for the usual stereotypical reasons.

Edited April 7, 2016 by Dobian

[GirlyGeek]

Love this episode every.single.time. I spent more time watching the camera and lighting and some subtle 2009Dean vs 2014Dean stuff, and it was just wonderful to watch.

Spoiler

though, the fact they've been 'palling around' with Lucifer recently makes the whole "see you in 5 years, Dean" line kinda depressing (though it's been more than 5 years of course, but I doubt working together with Lucifer was on anyone's radar at the time of this episode, lol)

I was really enjoying Cas throughout this episode.  He's a funny stoner and it's great to see him laid back and human, though the reasons underneath are sad of course.

the final scene was gorgeous, btw. I've noticed a lot of side profile camera angles on Dean so far this season, and in this scene it was particularly striking (reminded me of some of the season 2 camera work and lighting thst I'm sure was Kim Manners). The scene itself is nice.  Not sure if it's just me, but when Dean brings the knife out, it seems like Sam kinda flinches back a little, and his face is very wary, like he's not sure why he's there/what Deans going to do...? Am I reading that wrong?

But, while getting to this truce of sorts was the product of some Dean manipulation (I'm still convinced that Zachariah orchestrated the whole future scenario to push Dean into saying yes) I liked seeing Sam and Dean come to this point of shaky agreement to 'move forward their own way'.  The first steps of TFW ;)

[DittyDotDot]

13 minutes ago, GirlyGeek said:

Not sure if it's just me, but when Dean brings the knife out, it seems like Sam kinda flinches back a little, and his face is very wary, like he's not sure why he's there/what Deans going to do...? Am I reading that wrong?

No, I don't think you are. That's how i always read it. And, it makes sense considering he had just been attacked by hunters who he considered his friends, it ran through his mind that it could be a trap of some sort. I really like that end scene for this reason alone. S5 has a few subtle things like this that really draw me in.

[SueB]

It was on TNT Rewatch today. 

I just realized for the first time that the reason Future Dean slept with Jane was probably BECAUSE he had a connection to Resa (sp?) and he had formulated the plan to use her as decoy.  I think continuing to sleep with her after knowing he was going to get her killed, was a step too far, even for Future Dean.  

[Hanahope]

I thought both Jared and Jensen did great jobs with these characters for the episode.  Jensen playing 2 versions of Dean, the same, yet different, and Jared getting to be Lucifer.

And I know the story will tell me how they eventually defeat Lucifer a long ways down the road, but part of me just wonders why wouldn't Dean, especially after being told by an older version of him, just accept Michael, defeat Lucifer before he gets into Sam's body, and be done with it.  Does he think Michael won't let his body go when he's finished?  Cas' host seemed fine after he left, its not quite like how the demons do damage to their hosts.

But I do like that Dean decided to try again with Sam, and hope that by doing so, things change.

[AwesomO4000]

9 hours ago, Hanahope said:

And I know the story will tell me how they eventually defeat Lucifer a long ways down the road, but part of me just wonders why wouldn't Dean, especially after being told by an older version of him, just accept Michael, defeat Lucifer before he gets into Sam's body, and be done with it.  

It's because of what Zachariah told Dean in "Sympathy For the Devil." The reason the angels manipulated things into Lucifer rising in the first place is so they can win the battle... and that battle - even with Michael - will mean millions of people will die. "Maybe more," according to Zachariah. Dean doesn't want that. It's not himself Dean's worried about, it's the millions of innocents who will be killed if Michael and Lucifer battle.

[Hanahope]

Ah I see, I missed the whole millions die part

[bettername2come]

Jensen Ackles should teach classes in how to express yourself through eye closing. That opening scene on the phone with Sam is just heartbreaking, although I can't blame Dean for the "pick a hemisphere" comment. "Do You Love Me" over the soldier/Croatoans battle is a great juxtaposition. It'd be funny, if it weren't also kind of terrifying. Poor Baby. Jensen is amazing at playing two different versions of Dean. Dean should wear a thigh holster more often. Chuck! Ah, Hippie Cas. I love that he immediately recognizes Dean as not from this time. Future Dean just shooting the guy in cold blood is shocking. "What? I like Past You." Future Cas is amusing. The conversation where Future Dean tells Dean that Sam said yes - it's nice to see that glimmer of our Dean that's still there, but then he's willing to sacrifice his friends, including Cas. Such a well-acted scene between Dean and Lucifer. Poor Dean. Hey, where'd his single man tear go? "I win, so I win." Dean just disappearing on Zach is beautiful. "We had an appointment." Sam totally flinches when Dean pulls out the knife, and Dean notices it. "We keep each other human." "You are the second best hunter on the planet." "We make our own future." "Guess we have no other choice." Nice little paradox there.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

"The voice says I'm almost out of minutes."  Bless his heart, Cas would wait right there, wouldn't he?  

I really don't like this episode very much.  The saddest part might have been Baby.  'Cause I just don't buy, never have, never will, the 'one fated destiny' line.  The future is full of infinite possibilities, depending on which road you take.  I think it's obvious this is a set up with future Dean so vehemently encouraging past Dean to say Yes to Michael.  

I do like how past Dean gives future Dean crap about cheating on Reesa (sp?).  Nice to know 'our' Dean is a decent guy at heart.  Chuck inserting himself in this fake future is kind of funny.  

Huh.  It occurs to me that Zach really did Dean, and the rest of humanity, a favor by sending him to the 'future'.  Oh, I know Zach thought it would show Dean the error of his ways and get him on board with being Michael's vessel and all.  But prior to going to this 'future' Dean was telling Sam that they were better off apart.   "Goodbye, Sam."  <--maybe that's part of what made Sam say Yes, in the alternate future.  But by sending him to this 'future' that Zach created, Dean changed his mind about staying away from Sam and realized that they are stronger (strongest) when they fight together.  

Anna had to cut her grace away and 'fall' painfully to earth in order to become human, but future Cass...well, his mojo just kind of drained away once all the angels left?  Wth?  Worst explanation ever.  

I know Jared usually gets a lot of praise for his portrayal of Lucifer, but potential UO ahead - I really don't think it's all that great.  It is not one of my favorite performances of his.  I mean, he did a good job and all, but I still didn't buy what Lucifer was selling.  

Wait.  Was Sam driving Cas' pimpmobile?  Is that where Cass got it?  It was a hand-me-down? ;)

[Wayward Son]

On 08/07/2017 at 2:01 AM, RulerofallIsurvey said:

I do like how past Dean gives future Dean crap about cheating on Reesa (sp?).  Nice to know 'our' Dean is a decent guy at heart.  Chuck inserting himself in this fake future is kind of funny

 

Hmm, I actually saw that scene differently! I saw it as amusement from past Dean or at most annoyance over the fact he was the one punished for a crime he hadn't committed. IMO he didn't display disgust towards his future selfs actions with Reesa like he did about other decisions later in the episode. Plus IMO this type of thing isn't too much of a stretch for our Dean. We know from After School Special he isn't afraid to hook up behind someone he is meant to be dating back. We also know from a scene where he pretends to be an agent, which is a career quite likely to earn him interest, he isn't afraid to lie to get a woman into bed. 

 

I don't think he would behave in such a manner with someone he truly cared for like Lisa or Cassie, but a randomer he was just physically attracted to? It's not out of character.

 

I will post tomorrow with proper thoughts on the overall episode :)

Edited July 21, 2017 by Wayward Son

[DeeDee79]

4 hours ago, Wayward Son said:

Plus IMO this type of thing isn't too much of a stretch for our Dean. We know from After School Special he isn't afraid to hook up behind someone he is meant to be dating back.

This was a depiction of Dean as a teenager and a pretty poor depiction at that. I don't see this as being a good example of his character in the slightest.

[catrox14]

I'd argue that whatever person Dean was in After School Special was left behind then. Dean is promiscuous, but he does not cheat.  Dean has casual sex all the time, but he always uses his real name and if there are no commitments, no promises why is that bad behavior?

Risa said to Past!Dean "I thought you said we had a "connection" " which she put in air quotes. If Risa took that to mean 'commitment' well, that's on her. I sure as shit wouldn't take it that way. And IMO she must have known what she was getting if she figured out he was in Jane's cabin.   Mostly that was joke to  have Past!Dean be blamed for Future!Dean's behavior and is not an indicator of Past!Dean's MO with women.

Lying is a part of their jobs and lives as hunters, yet Dean told Cassie who he was and what he did and she dumped him precisely because he told her the truth, which could easily lead him to decide that telling the truth about himself would never work for him having a relationship. IMO, they had him be a jerk in one episode using a power dynamic with a lie to get laid. IMO, that writing choice landed poorly with the audience since it was never seen again. Nor did it really mesh with the Dean that didn't lie to Cassie.  

Edited July 22, 2017 by catrox14

[DeeDee79]

3 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I'd argue that whatever person Dean was in After School Special was left behind then. Dean is promiscuous, but he does not cheat.  Dean has casual sex all the time, but he always uses his real name and if there are no commitments, no promises why is that bad behavior?

Risa said to Past!Dean "I thought you said we had a "connection" " which she put in air quotes. If Risa took that to mean 'commitment' well, that's on her. I sure as shit wouldn't take it that way. And IMO she must have known what she was getting if she figured out he was in Jane's cabin.   Mostly that was joke to  have Past!Dean be blamed for Future!Dean's behavior and is not an indicator of Past!Dean's MO with women.

Lying is a part of their jobs and lives as hunters, yet Dean told Cassie who he was and what he did and she dumped him precisely because he told her the truth, which could easily lead him to decide that telling the truth about himself would never work for him having a relationship. IMO, they had him be a jerk in one episode using a power dynamic with a lie to get laid. IMO, that writing choice landed poorly with the audience since it was never seen again. Nor did it really mesh with the Dean that didn't lie to Cassie.  

Perfectly stated and I wholeheartedly agree with the bolded statements!

[catrox14]

Shoot! Some how I missed the 3rd anniversary of Croatoan Day.

God I love this episode so much. I'm still a little miffed they didn't acknowledge it in some way in the show on Aug 1, 2014. Oh well. It will be in my heart always. 

Here's to Future!Dean, Future!Cas and Samifer. 

[Iju]

wow, misha really had to work out his acting abilities more than the whole cast in just 2 seasons huh? he had to act as cass, jimmy, then as some slightly aloof druggie who lost almost all will to fight. all done to perfection as well.

what's up with Route 666 being easter egged again? this is like the 3rd time this season, and i think it was done sometime in S4. nothing in that episode is worth talking about because everything was put to rest sooo...the only thing i can think of is cassie? is she going to return somehow? during the Apocalypse will sam and dean have to save her or something?

ahh, this scene had some great shots. the chase scene for example. how can dean make running look so hot? oh well. the scene when the army dudes ganked the "zombies" was sooo awesome. very impressive. and the lighting of the shots outside was nice. 

so dean thinks he could be interested in crossdressing. that....really shouldn't have been revealed because my mind ran 30k miles a second when i found that tidbit out. whoops.

jared playing lucifer...okay i'll give it to him. it's even better than his previous possession in S3. he went entirely all out in this. i don't know how he did it. the way he spoke, even the way he gesticulated and moved, so unlike sam. in fact when he even spoke his name it sounded to outside of his own body, that sam was actually dead somewhere but yet he was right there...not so there. and jensen's performance of getting angry at lucifer but couldn't hold in his horror of the most evil thing in existence talking out of his brother's mouth near the end...beautiful.

lastly, zach is getting so very much on my nerves. and if he does something to cass i will THROW TABLES AND CHAIRS.

[catrox14]

I think this is one of the show's best acting roles for Jensen.  And largely why this episode is my absolute all time favorite of the show EVER.

What I found amazing in Jensen's acting here is that not only did he alter Dean's voice just slightly and changed his posture for Future!Dean, he changed Dean's internal life. There is a completely different quality and attitude to Future!Dean than regular Dean and I don't see any bleed through of one Dean to the other.  And to be able to do that in the same episode, acting with the stunt double for the blocking must have been a huge challenge.  It's really an incredible performance and one that Eric Kripke has said would have garnered Jensen an Emmy nomination if the show were on any other network and genre shows were not pooped on by Emmy voters.

[Wayward Son]

8 hours ago, Iju said:

wow, misha really had to work out his acting abilities more than the whole cast in just 2 seasons huh? he had to act as cass, jimmy, then as some slightly aloof druggie who lost almost all will to fight. all done to perfection as well.

Eric Kripke knew he’d stumbled on a gem when he cast Misha and thankfully wasn’t afraid to give him a lot to work with. Personally, I think Misha’s acting skills are often underrated due to the stoic and low key nature of regular Castiel so episodes like this and last seasons The Rapture really give him a chance to show off his range. I’m glad to see you’re enjoying Cas :D. He’s my favourite! 

 

8 hours ago, Iju said:

jared playing lucifer...okay i'll give it to him. it's even better than his previous possession in S3.

Not to knock his skills as Sam (because he does play a great Sam) but some of Jared’s not!Sam scenes are his best work on the show. His performance here was excellent and his Meg!Sam back in season two was in his top 5 scenes for me! 

[Iju]

5 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I think this is one of the show's best acting roles for Jensen.  And largely why this episode is my absolute all time favorite of the show EVER.

What I found amazing in Jensen's acting here is that not only did he alter Dean's voice just slightly and changed his posture for Future!Dean, he changed Dean's internal life. There is a completely different quality and attitude to Future!Dean than regular Dean and I don't see any bleed through of one Dean to the other.  And to be able to do that in the same episode, acting with the stunt double for the blocking must have been a huge challenge.  It's really an incredible performance and one that Eric Kripke has said would have garnered Jensen an Emmy nomination if the show were on any other network and genre shows were not pooped on by Emmy voters.

i was just saying to my family as we watched it that somehow, '14 dean made '09 dean look like an innocent baby, and that was long before we found out about him leaving his friends to go kill lucifer. there was just...something that '14 dean was that was so changed, but not in obvious reasons. i hope that made sense LOL

whaaaat why didn't jensen get a nomination?!? he should have at least gotten two nominations and at least one win by this point (his work in the first ep of S1 of S3 was impressive as well). the emmys is butthurt over SPN? sad. i hope before it ends SOMEONE gets what they deserve.

4 hours ago, Wayward Son said:

Eric Kripke knew he’d stumbled on a gem when he cast Misha and thankfully wasn’t afraid to give him a lot to work with. Personally, I think Misha’s acting skills are often underrated due to the stoic and low key nature of regular Castiel so episodes like this and last seasons The Rapture really give him a chance to show off his range. I’m glad to see you’re enjoying Cas :D. He’s my favourite! 

 

Not to knock his skills as Sam (because he does play a great Sam) but some of Jared’s not!Sam scenes are his best work on the show. His performance here was excellent and his Meg!Sam back in season two was in his top 5 scenes for me! 

"Dean, I'm not playing. The voice said that I only have a few minutes left." me and my mother were cracking up at that! cute cass is cute.

i guess because of cass' stiff personality the show had to make his personality different at some points to jazz it up and make him more interesting. which is something i'm not angry about at all of their choice. 

i completely understand what you mean by jared. ever since day one of his performance of sam i could see glimpses of how far his talent could go, but the character of sam had pushed that down a bit. so when jared was given a chance of possession i felt he took it with relish. he owned meg-sam! i would love to get any information on that episode and his opinion on the matter.

it's like in bewitched (who, coincidentally, the MC's name is also sam). elizabeth was great playing samantha, but whenever she played her cousin serena, her talent would really show. 

P.S. i checked and i correct myself. sam didn't get possessed in S3, it was S2 (ep 14).

Edited March 29, 2018 by Iju

[gonzosgirrl]

I kind of thought Misha was playing himself in this one. Heh.

Jensen, ever the humble gentleman, always deflects praise for this episode onto Jared and his five minutes as Lucifer. It borders on parody for me (unlike his performance as Meg, which was one of his best of the series), but Jensen has nothing but good things to say about his co-star. Jensen deserved an Emmy for this episode, and like @catrox14 and Kripke said, on any other network his nomination would've been a lock.

On re-watch and given (major spoiler)

Spoiler

that we now know that Chuck was God all along, it makes me loathe his blythe, toilet-paper-hoarding self now, where I was amused before.

Edited March 29, 2018 by gonzosgirrl

[Iju]

On 29/03/2018 at 2:11 PM, gonzosgirrl said:

I kind of thought Misha was playing himself in this one. Heh.

Jensen, ever the humble gentleman, always deflects praise for this episode onto Jared and his five minutes as Lucifer. It borders on parody for me (unlike his performance as Meg, which was one of his best of the series), but Jensen has nothing but good things to say about his co-star. Jensen deserved an Emmy for this episode, and like @catrox14 and Kripke said, on any other network his nomination would've been a lock.

On re-watch and given (major spoiler)

  Reveal hidden contents

that we now know that Chuck was God all along, it makes me loathe his blythe, toilet-paper-hoarding self now, where I was amused before.

aw who could expect more from such an admirable man :') 

[Myrelle]

On ‎3‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 11:51 AM, catrox14 said:

I think this is one of the show's best acting roles for Jensen.  And largely why this episode is my absolute all time favorite of the show EVER.

What I found amazing in Jensen's acting here is that not only did he alter Dean's voice just slightly and changed his posture for Future!Dean, he changed Dean's internal life. There is a completely different quality and attitude to Future!Dean than regular Dean and I don't see any bleed through of one Dean to the other.  And to be able to do that in the same episode, acting with the stunt double for the blocking must have been a huge challenge.  It's really an incredible performance and one that Eric Kripke has said would have garnered Jensen an Emmy nomination if the show were on any other network and genre shows were not pooped on by Emmy voters.

Ditto to all of this, and I would add that Future!Dean's eyes were just So. Dead. That aspect of Jensen's acting has always fascinated me. The way he can deaden his eyes and empty them of any emotion at all is something else, IMO. I've never seen any actor who can do that as well as he can. And he can do it on a dime, too. And it's such a departure from the total warmth in them when he's caring or loving or concerned for someone. And they BLAZE! when he's angry. Love that too. So much.

[Iju]

1 hour ago, Myrelle said:

Ditto to all of this, and I would add that Future!Dean's eyes were just So. Dead. That aspect of Jensen's acting has always fascinated me. The way he can deaden his eyes and empty them of any emotion at all is something else, IMO. I've never seen any actor who can do that as well as he can. And he can do it on a dime, too. And it's such a departure from the total warmth in them when he's caring or loving or concerned for someone. And they BLAZE! when he's angry. Love that too. So much.

sam may use them more than dean, but he has his own set of puppy eyes when it comes to it! ;)

[gonzosgirrl]

On 3/30/2018 at 10:41 PM, Iju said:

aw who could expect more from such an admirable man :') 

Which one?

[Iju]

On 4/1/2018 at 9:53 AM, gonzosgirrl said:

Which one?

jensen, lol

[The Companion]

This thread is a bit spoilery (as was the last), so I have largely skimmed. 

This was a great episode. I love a good post apocalyptic story. FutureDean was barely recognizable. Sacrificing his friends, showing no regret. JA did a fantastic job playing against himself. 

I think I have made my distrust of the angels clear. I find it interesting that he was told in In the Beginning that he couldn't change things, but here he is encouraged to. It is all so manipulative to me. I also found it interesting that the angels just left. I was glad to see him take a path other than the one advocated by the angels. It also made me wonder what "paradise on earth" would look like should the angels win. I suspect not like something that would be enough of a carrot to tempt Dean. 

Castiel standing by the road until the allotted time cracked me up.