S48.E13: Only One of Yous Can Win

[watch2much]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

My main takeaway this season is that the editing has gotten really bad about telegraphing the outcome. I was able to tell who was going home within the first five minutes of almost every episode, just based on who was getting the narration at the top of the hour and through the rest of the episode. Oh, there's a Bianca? And suddenly she seems to be the narrator of this episode? She's going home. There's a Charity? And she's narrating this episode? She's out. Oh look, now Star is actually talking? She's a goner.

This episode was no different. It opened with Kyle bragging about his game-winning move in tricking Joe and Eva to vote out Shauhin. And he got more narration time than anyone else, and always first.

My God, it's like the editors follow some sort of paint-by-numbers format they don't think the audience is wise to. I called Kyle's win within the first five minutes (go back and check the live thread if you don't believe me). Followed by two hours and fifty five minutes watching what I already knew would happen, happen.

On top of that, something has to be done about the challenges. I'm so sick of the endless obstacle course + puzzle challenges, it's the same damn thing every stinking week. This is another area where the show seems to have settled into format, as though there was some sort of focus group or outside consultant telling the show this is what the audience wants. 

And enough with the mud. It's disgusting, it isn't funny or interesting, it makes it hard to tell who's who, and it doesn't make them look all tough and primal like the show thinks it does. If the show really wants the players to look primal they should stop serving them elaborate feasts every other day and go back to making them subsist on rice and, I don't know, fishing for themselves. The way the players ooh and aah and moan and groan every time Jeff describes the latest feast that awaits them defies belief. Does the show think we just tuned in this week? Some of these people are still full from the last meal. It just makes them look like spoiled children.

Finally, I agree that "new era" Survivor is soft. It's soft in terms of gameplay, it's soft in terms of strategy and cutthroat moves, and it's soft in terms of deprivation. I remember when players looked emaciated and filthy by the time final tribal council rolled around. Now they look just as healthy and clean as the first day they arrived. I swear they go through hair, makeup and wardrobe before every tribal council.

This is not the Survivor we got hooked on. This is Survivor Lite. And it's unsatisfying. 

Thank you. This is exactly my thoughts and you put them down brilliantly. It’s laughable when they brag about lasting 26  days. I remember an episode early on where a bag of rice was lost in a river or something and Tina put herself in danger to get it because they were so desperate for food. They make a big deal out of winning fishing gear and the only time we saw someone catch a fish was when Kyle did it and then I was like something he wanted to check off on his bucket list not because they needed nourishment bring back the old Survivor.

 

 

 

 

[Chicago Redshirt]

50 minutes ago, blackwing said:

Congrats to Kyle.  I admit that I was fooled by the editing, I was sure that bringing Joe and Eva to the final three was a mistake.  It was definitely a risk. 

I felt bad for Kamilla when the cast was polled and she would have been the runaway winner.  But that's what happens when you are in a tight two person alliance.  As Chrissy said, "only one of youse can win".  But she couldn't get it done.  Kudos to her for winning the Final 5 immunity.  Yet why did she pick Eva and feed her?  Especially after she had just complained the day before about Shauhin feeding Joe?  I guess it's because she didn't think Eva was a threat.

I had been trying to figure out who was going to have the title quote, and my original guess was David. I should kick myself because "youse" is a very ethnic Chicago thing and I knew Chrissy was a Chicagoan.

As to why Kamilla took Eva for pasta, some possible theories:

1. Pure actual friendship/kinship. 

2. The fact that they had talked pasta a lot lately and the reward was pasta

3. Relative lack of options: it would be dumb to fuel Joe and she didn't want to alert people to her alliance with Kyle plus having Kyle to keep an eye on what's going on back at camp made sense. 

4. Jury management: in a scenario where Eva is on the jury, throwing her a pasta reward might help get Kamila her vote. I'd say it'd be a lost cause if Joe was also in the FTC, but then I thought either Joe or Eva was going to be the runaway winner, so shows what I know.

5. As you suggested, Eva's not much of a challenge threat, or at least, not in the way that giving her physical fuel increases her threat level.

1 hour ago, blackwing said:

I blame the editors on this one.  For the past several weeks I've been thinking that Kyle kept Joe because of their "I'm Black, you're Black" moment on the beach.  Now we find out it's because Kyle never really considered either Eva or Joe a final three threat.  The threats in his mind were Kamilla, because they played the same game, and Mitch, because everyone likes him and would vote for him because of his stutter.

I did feel a little bad for Joe.  As he said, he's just a fireman and he was trying to win so he can provide for his family.  Kyle and Eva are both younger than him and more educated and more accomplished so have more earnings potential.  But as always, Survivor is not a charity.  If Joe makes it to Season 50 I wonder how he would adjust his gameplay.  He would need to be more strategic and not get involved in an open pairing because I think people would be on to him right away.

I don't think Joe is Black. I had wondered to myself and my wife what ethnicity he might be. I thought possibly Latino. The Interwebs and AI say he's Caucasian. I don't remember anything that could be an "I'm Black, you're Black" moment, but with the overlong episodes I could have just missed it.

 I think that freed of being Eva's caretaker, and with a little adoption of guile, Joe would be a pretty good candidate for a comeback. If he gets to play again, I hope the experience teaches him not to be so trustworthy and to rely on more than just his physical prowess and honor. And to have in mind a better pitch for himself should he get to FTC.

1 hour ago, blackwing said:

Where was this Eva the entire season?  Eva did step up and was making good arguments for herself, even if at least one of them was "I am autistic and unlike anyone that has played before, vote for me and you will make history".  She tried to advocate for herself and showed that she has a very strategic mind.  Where was all this strategy the entire season?  Why did we see an Eva that just sat on her throne as Prom Queen and waited for others like Shauhin to dictate where the vote was going?

Despite her best efforts in FTC, I feel like this episode really highlighted why she shouldn't win.  Too emotional, too fragile.  I get that it's because of her autism but still.  When she failed at the moving balls challenge, she immediately sat down and broke down and started sobbing.  Granted, the jury wouldn't have seen that.  But at the fire making, she was full blown panicking and practically crying because her fire was diminishing.  Crying because her fire was going out?  That's not a winner.  I hope the jury took note.  Nonetheless, Star and Mary voted for her precisely because "What a woman!  She's autistic and amazing!"

Necessity was the mother of invention, and there was no need for Eva to do anything but act like Prom Queen. So far as we saw, it was rare that anyone threatened her or her allies or even talked about or was rumored to talk about threatening her or her allies, and when such a thing came up, she did the basic strategy thing and said "Let's get that person out of here ASAP." There was as little game-related adversity for her to overcome as possible.

If she were placed in a situation where she was playing from the middle, or goodness forbid, the bottom, would she have been able to rise to the occasion? Maybe. I suspect she would have lost it to the point where she made Bhanu from a few seasons back look like a stoic grandmaster of the game.

1 hour ago, blackwing said:

I am dumbfounded as to why Joe didn't flat out ask Shauhin if he had an idol.  Usually on this show, when A goes running to B and says "OMG I heard that C is going to take you out", 95% of the time, B goes right back running to C and says "WTF man, this is what A is saying about you".  Why didn't that happen?  Is it because Joe was too honourable and played the game truthfully and didn't lie?  There was so much made about Joe having this slow-motion lie detector power at that tribal council.  In retrospect, maybe the slow-motion voices just meant to signal utter confusion.

Charitably, I think that Joe did not directly ask Shauhin because he thought either way Shauhin would deny it (if it was true he had an idol and had tried to enlist Kamila, he of course is not going to admit it, and if it was false, of course he's not going to admit it). And Joe did not trust himself to be able to get a better handle on what the truth might be if he bluntly put the question to him. Joe thought he would be better able to get a read on the truth of the matter by asking sideways questions where Shauhin would not be on guard enough to lie. 

I took the slow-motion stuff to be trying to convey the drama/confusion Joe was undergoing as he was listening to these people as opposed to signifying his lie-detection prowess. Which obviously was lacking in this instance.

1 hour ago, blackwing said:

I very much doubt that Kamilla sacrificed herself on purpose.  She really wanted to make it to the end.  As we saw with the show of hands, she would have won.  Perhaps there is a situation where she and Kyle split votes that would have opened the door for Joe to win, but Joe's terrible FTC performance seems to have shown that wouldn't have happened.  

I don't think we got to vote on who was returning.  I know for Second Chances (Season 31), there was a fan vote.  Carolyn Rivera, who had just lost Worlds Apart to Mike Holloway, seemed to think she was a shoo-in and I cackled when it was obvious that people didn't like her.

From this season, I think I would only bring back Kamilla, because she is amazing and deserves a second shot, and Star, because she is hilarious and got a raw deal.  PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE no Eva and no Mitch!

No way to tell, but it's possible in a Joe/Kamilla/Kyle FTC, Joe could have stepped up his FTC vote count as well as made a better argument for himself. Joe basically took a principled stand that he wasn't going to try to go out of his way to make an argument for why he should get their votes over Eva, and came into things with the mindset that, Oh, Kyle is also here. If it was him competing against not his pseudo-daughter, but two others, maybe he would have been able/willing to stick his chest out more and be like, "Your secret alliance was cute, but you guys didn't get rid of me at the two points you should have, and hopefully the jury makes you pay." Also, from a vote standpoint, sorry, I zoned out so I don't remember who raised hands for who. I do think that we can't necessarily trust what people might say in the abstract without the benefit of the FTC pitches to hold true in the alt-reality, though. I would expect Joe still gets Cedrek's vote and certainly gets Eva's.  I think it's possible that he gets both of the votes that went to Eva and those 4 votes are enough to win. It's possible that it's a 3-3-2 (something like Cedrek/Eva/Star for Joe, Mary/Chrissy/Mitch for Kamilla, and David/Shauhin for Kyle) and Joe eventually would win after tie breakers.

[TVbitch]

oof. I've never FF so much of any episode of Survivor in my life. I couldn't take these self-congratulatory, delusional people thinking they were "among the greatest players ever." Maybe I'm being extra harsh because the last season of Australian Survivor was a thrilling 47 days of brutality, starvation and intricate strategizing with a riveting finale. I was hoping Jeff might take note on how it can still be done, but it's clear he is totally committed to this new Oprah era.

[blackwing]

32 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I don't think Joe is Black. I had wondered to myself and my wife what ethnicity he might be. I thought possibly Latino. The Interwebs and AI say he's Caucasian. I don't remember anything that could be an "I'm Black, you're Black" moment, but with the overlong episodes I could have just missed it.

 

No way to tell, but it's possible in a Joe/Kamilla/Kyle FTC, Joe could have stepped up his FTC vote count as well as made a better argument for himself. Joe basically took a principled stand that he wasn't going to try to go out of his way to make an argument for why he should get their votes over Eva, and came into things with the mindset that, Oh, Kyle is also here. If it was him competing against not his pseudo-daughter, but two others, maybe he would have been able/willing to stick his chest out more and be like, "Your secret alliance was cute, but you guys didn't get rid of me at the two points you should have, and hopefully the jury makes you pay." Also, from a vote standpoint, sorry, I zoned out so I don't remember who raised hands for who. I do think that we can't necessarily trust what people might say in the abstract without the benefit of the FTC pitches to hold true in the alt-reality, though. I would expect Joe still gets Cedrek's vote and certainly gets Eva's.  I think it's possible that he gets both of the votes that went to Eva and those 4 votes are enough to win. It's possible that it's a 3-3-2 (something like Cedrek/Eva/Star for Joe, Mary/Chrissy/Mitch for Kamilla, and David/Shauhin for Kyle) and Joe eventually would win after tie breakers.

Joe is definitely Black.  They showed a picture of his parents.  He said that his dad was Black and his mom is this blonde white woman.  And that his parents faced a lot of discrimination just for being together.

He and Kyle had the conversation on the beach, the one where Kyle admitted to having spent time in prison.  I think Kyle talked about being a young and stupid Black male, and Joe said "we have the same skin".  This was one of the episodes where Mary wanted to vote out Joe or Eva and Kyle just couldn't go along with it, and I thought it was because of the bond he created with Joe.

 

I do agree with you that perhaps in a Joe/Kyle/Kamilla final three, that maybe Joe argues for himself more.  But I just don't see what he could have said.  I don't think jurors will vote for him based on "we should have voted you out but we didn't".  Jurors seem to want to see active gameplay.

I don't think Joe gets the two votes that went to Eva.  Those were Star and Mary, and it was very clear that Star and Mary voted for her because they are impressed with how she hasn't let her autism keep her down.  I think Star and Mary's votes would have gone to Kamilla, as a strong woman.  I think Joe only gets Cedrek and Eva's votes.

 

[bunnyface]

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

And enough with the mud. It's disgusting, it isn't funny or interesting, it makes it hard to tell who's who, and it doesn't make them look all tough and primal like the show thinks it does. If the show really wants the players to look primal they should stop serving them elaborate feasts every other day and go back to making them subsist on rice and, I don't know, fishing for themselves. The way the players ooh and aah and moan and groan every time Jeff describes the latest feast that awaits them defies belief. Does the show think we just tuned in this week? Some of these people are still full from the last meal. It just makes them look like spoiled children.

 

Ditto to this.  Do they not allow them to clean up before they eat?  I cannot imagine sitting there, eating, with mud drying and cracking on my skin. Cracking and possibly falling into my food.  I don't care how hungry they are, and they aren't that hungry any more, I think I could take five minutes to clean up a bit first.  Even in the Ponderosa videos, which we don't get anymore, the first thing they would do is sit down and order food and hash out the game.  I'll be happy to talk to you in half an hour but I want a long, hot shower first.

[susannot]

As always, these discussion threads are far more interesting than the show.  As a final thought, I didn't want Eva to win and I'm glad she didn't.  As someone said upthread, she was coddled for the whole show.  But I'm glad she was on our TVs, at a time when our esteemed HHS Secretary, RFK Jr., runs around saying things like autistic people will never hold a job or earn a college degree.

[Chicago Redshirt]

52 minutes ago, blackwing said:

Joe is definitely Black.  They showed a picture of his parents.  He said that his dad was Black and his mom is this blonde white woman.  And that his parents faced a lot of discrimination just for being together.

He and Kyle had the conversation on the beach, the one where Kyle admitted to having spent time in prison.  I think Kyle talked about being a young and stupid Black male, and Joe said "we have the same skin".  This was one of the episodes where Mary wanted to vote out Joe or Eva and Kyle just couldn't go along with it, and I thought it was because of the bond he created with Joe.

 

I do agree with you that perhaps in a Joe/Kyle/Kamilla final three, that maybe Joe argues for himself more.  But I just don't see what he could have said.  I don't think jurors will vote for him based on "we should have voted you out but we didn't".  Jurors seem to want to see active gameplay.

I don't think Joe gets the two votes that went to Eva.  Those were Star and Mary, and it was very clear that Star and Mary voted for her because they are impressed with how she hasn't let her autism keep her down.  I think Star and Mary's votes would have gone to Kamilla, as a strong woman.  I think Joe only gets Cedrek and Eva's votes.

 

Duly noted. Looks like another thing about which AI should be distrusted.

Now that you mention it, I remember the "we share the same skin" statement. I  did not process it at the time to mean what it's now apparent that it means, "we're both Black men."

It has always been interesting to me how much with a few exceptions (Cook Islands here, a teach-in about doorags there), Survivor downplays race and how it is generally not the case that overt racial-lines bonding happens between contestants.

Every season pretty much there is talk about girls' alliances (either forming one or more or defending against one) Generally, there's not the counterpart among Black folks, or people of color, with the one exception where Black contestants deliberately allied themselves with Shan and her crew, and that lasted pretty much no time at all.

I think a more articulate person could have made a better case for Joe that he deserves the million because of things that (as far as we know) he didn't bring up or didn't bring up enough: he was doing this not just for himself but for his sister as a DV victim who loved the game, he was doing this because he was a great guy who was not just worried about his individual welfare but about Eva's, and that he would put this money to better use than Kamilla or Kyle. 

Joe took a really passive line during FTC, and I think that if it was him vs. Kyle/Kamilla, that would be a wakeup call. 

With Mary and Star, it's possible that they would have voted for Kamilla over Joe, but I'd say it's possible that their votes for Eva would transfer over if they appreciated Joe taking the line: part of my game was realizing it was so important for me to lift up this great woman in Eva and make her a role model for viewers and help her break barriers that I was willing to risk losing a million dollars. But it would be nice if you all would give me a million anyway.

1 hour ago, bunnyface said:

Ditto to this.  Do they not allow them to clean up before they eat?  I cannot imagine sitting there, eating, with mud drying and cracking on my skin. Cracking and possibly falling into my food.  I don't care how hungry they are, and they aren't that hungry any more, I think I could take five minutes to clean up a bit first.  Even in the Ponderosa videos, which we don't get anymore, the first thing they would do is sit down and order food and hash out the game.  I'll be happy to talk to you in half an hour but I want a long, hot shower first.

In that final reward challenge, my wife noted that although Eva and Kamilla were both caked with mud, they seemed to have freshly applied lipstick.

Priorities. It's fine to have specks of mud in your carbonara, but God forbid that your lips do not seem to have maximum kissability.

[violet and green]

10 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

This was one of the episodes where Mary wanted to vote out Joe or Eva and Kyle just couldn't go along with it, and I thought it was because of the bond he created with Joe.

That was also the episode where Kyle did an interview on the beach, and started to sob because he was so conflicted as he'd shared this stuff with Joe he'd never shared with anyone and had an amazing moment with him and he knew he should but he couldn't vote him out.

[susannot]

5 minutes ago, violet and green said:

That was also the episode where Kyle did an interview on the beach, and started to sob because he was so conflicted as he'd shared this stuff with Joe he'd never shared with anyone and had an amazing moment with him and he knew he should but he couldn't vote him out.

One of the moments that made me like Kyle a lot.

[kav]

9 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

I was dumbfounded that he told Eva he will willing to switch places at fire with her (and would have loved to see him try as I believe it's not his decision-it was Kyle's)

Kyle would argue that after he told Eva she was in it, it was not his choice anymore, in face BOTH him and Kyle begged Eva to let them do fire instead of her, but she said no.

11 hours ago, 30 Helens said:

Was it Eva getting picked for YET ANOTHER reward meal for no real reason?

As was explained in an exit interview, part of the reason she was picked for lots of rewards were because of the deep relationships she made that were not shown, including with Kyle, Mary, David and Kamilla.  Also, she did not want to be picked in the reward for letters for reasons that she shared in an interview.

[kav]

5 hours ago, blackwing said:

When she failed at the moving balls challenge, she immediately sat down and broke down and started sobbing.  Granted, the jury wouldn't have seen that.  But at the fire making, she was full blown panicking and practically crying because her fire was diminishing.  Crying because her fire was going out?  That's not a winner

I disagree 100 percent on this, I believe it is unkind to judge ANYONE on why they might cry because of stressful intense situations.  The fire practice was a lot more intense than was shown on the show, and she will always be a WINNER in her own way for her community, and I am sorry that you disagree with that.  Until you witness an experience like this as someone on the spectrum or a loved one, you have no idea how emotional and intense that experience can be.

3 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I hope the experience teaches him not to be so trustworthy and to rely on more than just his physical prowess and honor. And to have in mind a better pitch for himself should he get to FTC.

I think this experience will teach him that being the kind, thoughtful person that his kids look up to is more important than being physical.

[AntFTW]

3 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

As to why Kamilla took Eva for pasta, some possible theories:

1. Pure actual friendship/kinship. 

2. The fact that they had talked pasta a lot lately and the reward was pasta

3. Relative lack of options: it would be dumb to fuel Joe and she didn't want to alert people to her alliance with Kyle plus having Kyle to keep an eye on what's going on back at camp made sense. 

4. Jury management: in a scenario where Eva is on the jury, throwing her a pasta reward might help get Kamila her vote. I'd say it'd be a lost cause if Joe was also in the FTC, but then I thought either Joe or Eva was going to be the runaway winner, so shows what I know.

5. As you suggested, Eva's not much of a challenge threat, or at least, not in the way that giving her physical fuel increases her threat level.

My thinking was that no one would be mad about bringing Eva along. Eva was the safest option for managing the politics at camp. I’ve been wondering why no one is getting pissed that Eva is being chosen to eat at all these rewards. People are usually pissed.

[tinkerbell]

Jeff really wanted Eva to win, didn't he?  At one point before a break, Jeff said, after this I  want to hear from Eva.  I was dumbfounded. We just HEARD from her!

When Joe heard that Eva had a PhD, and all her accomplishments,  I wonder if he felt used and manipulated.. she had approached him about her autism/anxiety and asked him to learn how to calm her down. Sorry, but at some point couldn't she have learned some coping strategies and self-soothing skills? Breathing, counting, focusing on sensory input, are all helpful for anxiety. Better than adopting a dependent role.

she played the helpless female role, and appealed to his paternal nature, and the protective impulses of the other men. Then she brags about her professional accomplishments, like, "look at everything I've done, while being AUTISTIC!" Everyone had been treating Eva with kid gloves, almost like a child. Did they feel fooled? (Not that they woul ever admit it)

[Rodney]

44 minutes ago, susannot said:

One of the moments that made me like Kyle a lot.

Funny.  I just thought it further made him look stupid.

[iMonrey]

Quote

Again, possibly bad person, but I wonder what would have happened if there was a cutthroat player who was willing to twist the knife about Eva's autism and inability to manage certain tasks. 

Well then I'm a bad person too because I wondered what would happen if instead of coddling and encouraging Eva during her near meltdown at fire making, Kamilla had instead leaned over and said "Yeah, you're gonna lose. You're fire is going out, you're gonna lose." And then watch Eva collapse on the ground in an emotional heap and start screaming her head off like when she was practicing. And then Joe would have to come over and hold her and calm her down. Meanwhile Kamilla could just relax and sit there and make her fire and win.

Yeah I know I'm going to hell. I've already got my handbasket all picked out.

But seriously, when I look back (again) at that Very Special Episode early on when Eva had her first meltdown after a challenge and it made Jeffy cry and CBS dedicated an entire, commercial-free half hour to it, it makes me think this is where the other players sort of took their cue WRT Eva from that moment forward, coddling and babying her and never targeting her. Because they recognized in that moment that Eva was the Very Special Player of the Season and therefore untouchable, yet nobody worried she would win because they collectively knew they were all carrying her without saying it out loud.

They didn't do her any favors. She genuinely looked like she was going to cry after Kamilla undercut her argument at the final tribal council and credited Kyle instead. And she looked gobsmacked when Jeff started pulling out more votes for Kyle. It appears that Eva is used to being coddled and getting what she wants.

[seacliffsal]

I wonder if all of the advantages that just happened to come her way (including during the finale when the advantage was in the form of a puzzle she had previously solved), the constant going on rewards, the 'coddling' from production and participants lured Eva into assuming she was going to win which really threw her for a loop when Kyle began to get more votes. 

The Eva season that the producers wanted to force down viewers' throats really did not do anything other than reinforce that there's a reason Jeff's talk show failed.  Many viewers resented it, the other participants may have silently resented it (we'll never know), Joe may have lost his chance at $1 million because of feeling obligated to become her protector, and even though Eva got second place-did it benefit her in other ways or just set her up for a great disappointment (how could I have lost?)?

Anyway, I am glad this season is over.  This is really the first time I had to force myself to watch the season (and I've watched since season 1 episode 1).  I don't think Survivor is doing itself any favors by so blatantly favoring a participant.

[eel2178]

3 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I think a more articulate person could have made a better case for Joe that he deserves the million because of things that (as far as we know) he didn't bring up or didn't bring up enough: he was doing this not just for himself but for his sister as a DV victim who loved the game, he was doing this because he was a great guy who was not just worried about his individual welfare but about Eva's, and that he would put this money to better use than Kamilla or Kyle. 

Third prize, invested well, could do a lot for his family. Just because he didn't come in first doesn't mean he lost out of financial security. 

[surfgirl]

22 hours ago, Cotypubby said:

I’m just glad Eva did not win. She didn’t really do anything in the game, I mean she was literally handed the Idol. Her whole pitch to the jury was “Vote for me because I’m autistic.”  🙄

Yeah I felt the same way. This is Survivor, not A Very Special ABC After School Special. I do not believe that anyone on the spectrum should be denied the chance to achieve their dreams and I have a few folks in my family with different levels of autism. That said, I do think if you are going to be on Survivor you pretty much need to understand what it entails and know you can handle it. Not with an adult babysitter to hold your hand when things get tough, but truly be able to roll with all that comes with being on this show. Eva showed from the get go that she did not have what it takes to be on this show because she was happy go lucky when things were going her way, but when she could not excel at something, she melted down and was not able to self-regulate, and therein lies the problem, at least for me as a viewer. It is not fair to go into this game with the mindset that you are going to be unable to handle it when the shit hits the fan so you are going to find someone to babysit you. That's not fair to other players, IMO. If I go to hell for saying that, so be it.

9 hours ago, SummerDreams said:

Phew I'm so relieved that Eva or Joe didn't win. It was ironic seeing misogynistic Eva getting second place being voted by two women.

That's it folks, see most of you on July for BB. 😊

THANK YOU for mentioning this because it's bugged me the entire season. Eva showed from the start that any time there was an option to vote out someone, she put forth another woman if there was a woman to put forth. She went on the war path, IIRC, for Star, even when Star was so kind and really threw her own game to support Eva by giving her the Idol, which Star should not have done. Which supports my above earlier comment, Star should not have been put in the position to feel like she had to give special treatment to Eva, yet she did because she's a lovely, caring human being. And even so, Eva couldn't manage to think, 'hey, maybe I should protect this nice person and help her stay in the game longer'. What I saw, regardless of being autistic or not, was that Eva is not a girl's girl. She came across as someone that just wants to be the only female amongst a group of men. I usually don't gel with women like that and I found that a huge turn off TBH.

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Well then I'm a bad person too because I wondered what would happen if instead of coddling and encouraging Eva during her near meltdown at fire making, Kamilla had instead leaned over and said "Yeah, you're gonna lose. You're fire is going out, you're gonna lose." And then watch Eva collapse on the ground in an emotional heap and start screaming her head off like when she was practicing. And then Joe would have to come over and hold her and calm her down. Meanwhile Kamilla could just relax and sit there and make her fire and win.

Yeah I know I'm going to hell. I've already got my handbasket all picked out.

But seriously, when I look back (again) at that Very Special Episode early on when Eva had her first meltdown after a challenge and it made Jeffy cry and CBS dedicated an entire, commercial-free half hour to it, it makes me think this is where the other players sort of took their cue WRT Eva from that moment forward, coddling and babying her and never targeting her. Because they recognized in that moment that Eva was the Very Special Player of the Season and therefore untouchable, yet nobody worried she would win because they collectively knew they were all carrying her without saying it out loud.

They didn't do her any favors. She genuinely looked like she was going to cry after Kamilla undercut her argument at the final tribal council and credited Kyle instead. And she looked gobsmacked when Jeff started pulling out more votes for Kyle. It appears that Eva is used to being coddled and getting what she wants.

I want to applaud your entire post because it says everything I was thinking last night, but you said it way better than I ever could.

Edited Friday at 02:18 AM by surfgirl

[Rodney]

13 minutes ago, surfgirl said:

What I saw, regardless of being autistic or not, was that Eva is not a girl's girl. She came across as someone that just wants to be the only female amongst a group of men. I usually don't gel with women like that and I found that a huge turn off TBH.

You would not like BB, then.  So many men win that show more than women do because they cast so many women like that, and many women get evicted quickly and easily by the women of that type.

[surfgirl]

13 minutes ago, Rodney said:

You would not like BB, then.  So many men win that show more than women do because they cast so many women like that, and many women get evicted quickly and easily by the women of that type.

No worries there, I have hated BB since it debuted.

[North of Eden]

Never has a castaway worked so hard NOT to win and still managed to win.

The episode lost me the minute they didn't vote out Joe. I thought for sure they were faking us out about Mitch. Surely Kyle and Kamilla could not possibly be that stupid this late in the game to keep a threat like Joe around...yet.

From there on out it was just grotesque as Kyle and Kamilla abandon each other, Eva using tears that nearly got Joe to make fire and Kyle to consider making fire. To Joe encouraging Eva during the fire challenge and Kyle can't even be bothered to encourage Kamilla even in a fake show of support ( interestingly the jury didn't seem to want her to win the challenge. And finally Eva's persuasive argument to win...VOTE FOR ME BECAUSE I'M AUSTISIC.

Ugh...unless something extraordinary happens this will be the finale with the worst gameplay after seen...Kyle won despite himself. Joe and Eva probably would have taken Kamilla as the goat.

The only joy I got was Eva never recovered after being humbled to find out she got played on the Shahin vote.

[Diana Berry]

Even if Kamilla hadn’t told Kyle she wouldn’t take him, I don’t think Kyle would have taken her.  He’s too smart.

[kav]

2 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

Joe may have lost his chance at $1 million because of feeling obligated to become her protector, and even though Eva got second place-did it benefit her in other ways or just set her up for a great disappointment (how could I have lost?)?

He did not become "Eva's protecter" because he felt obligated to, he did it because he is a good and kind person who wanted to be a role model of being accepting and kind and understanding to all people for his kids.  Yes, the show did benefit her in many ways before it showed her how much of a role model she was to many people who watched the show who are like her.  She also learned that she can use her voice against those who think "that she is broken" or who choose not to understand her and mock her.

5 hours ago, tinkerbell said:

Sorry, but at some point couldn't she have learned some coping strategies and self-soothing skills? Breathing, counting, focusing on sensory input, are all helpful for anxiety. Better than adopting a dependent role.

You can have learned about many different coping strategies and self soothing skills, but until you are in the moment and actually can see/feel what someone on the spectrums brain is doing during an episode, you have no idea what it is like and making statements like that can be very hurtful and judgmental.

[kav]

1 hour ago, surfgirl said:

Not with an adult babysitter to hold your hand when things get tough, but truly be able to roll with all that comes with being on this show. Eva showed from the get go that she did not have what it takes to be on this show because she was happy go lucky when things were going her way, but when she could not excel at something, she melted down and was not able to self-regulate, and therein lies the problem, at least for me as a viewer.

Joe was not "an adult babysitter", and I believe that is a very rude statement to make.  Eva showed from the start that she DOES have what it takes to be on the show, is very courageous, strong, determined, hard working.  Sorry you feel it is "a problem" that her being unable to self regulate herself and have meltdowns is something bad, SHE CAN NOT COTROL IT, IT IS HOW HER BRAIN WORKS IN SOME MOMENTS.  

1 hour ago, surfgirl said:

It is not fair to go into this game with the mindset that you are going to be unable to handle it when the shit hits the fan so you are going to find someone to babysit you. That's not fair to other players, IMO. If I go to hell for saying that, so be it.

It is not fair that her and many others brains are wired differently and work differently for reasons that are not known and will not be known anytime soon.  It is not fair that she has to work harder to succeed in a world that is not made for her.  It is not fair how much energy it can take to mask emotions to try to fit in with those around them.

[kav]

53 minutes ago, North of Eden said:

Eva using tears that nearly got Joe to make fire and Kyle to consider making fire.

Not quite, she was in charge of the choice of both Kyle and Joe not making fire because she had confidence in herself to do it, even though it was hard, and it was her who said no to both of them saying to let them do fire instead of her.  She said no to Kyle about this even before He was able to get the words out to say it.  This was in the exit interview from today from both of them.

[kav]

25 minutes ago, Diana Berry said:

I too wonder how does she work if she that’s frustrated when she gets something wrong or doesn’t go her way? How did she get through college or handle losses on the hockey team.  Joe had to have wondered about that.  To give Joe his due, I felt bad when he said I’m just a dumb fire chief.  No, never discount your service. 

With support teams and coping strategies and learning to understand what situations can be triggers for her.  I doubt Joe wondered that.  You can tell the close relationship they have just from watching any interview with the 2 of them including the one on the morning show yesterday.

[tinkerbell]

39 minutes ago, kav said:

You can have learned about many different coping strategies and self soothing skills, but until you are in the moment and actually can see/feel what someone on the spectrums brain is doing during an episode, you have no idea what it is like and making statements like that can be very hurtful and judgmental.

But i DO know what it is like. And I know that it is more helpful to learn and practice coping strategies than to teach others to hold your hands. If you have autism and/or anxiety, preparing for a show like Survivor needs to involve practicing self regulation strategies. 

I am not being judgmental.  I'm saying that the question should be "what can I do to calm down and focus?", NOT " what can I ask someone else to do?"  She chose one person as her helper, on a show where people get voted off one at a time. She should not have put Joe in that position, and she should not have put herself in the position where she was dependent on him. 

[surfgirl]

Some interesting takes on last night:

https://nypost.com/2025/05/22/entertainment/survivor-48-star-kamilla-karthigesu-final-3-shunned-jury/

 

https://tvline.com/interviews/survivor-48-kamilla-karthigesu-finale-interview-1235452786/

 

I so thought it was very odd that nobody considered the link between Kamilla and Kyle given they were both Guyanese, whixh is a very small country. If anyone knew they were both Guyanese, you'd think there might be some suspicion that they would have some sort of bond. I guess nobody knew except us?

[Oscirus]

Joe and Eva were the ultimate goats. Everybody from Shauin on up in the booting order realized that. So barring a Cirie boot the goat strategy there was no real reason for either kyle or Kamile to boot them. They'd just be booting for the sake of booting. Especially when they're on the same page with the goats. Now Mitch, yea, he should've done something.

I understood all of Kamile's moves last night. She took Eva as a subtle way of trying to imprint girl power in her brain, and possibly try to work on getting her to take her to the finals if she won immunity. Yea, we know it wouldnt have worked but it's not a bad attempt. Kamile told Kyle she wasnt taking him because she already knew they werent taking each other, last thing she needed was a pissed off blind-sided kyle on the jury. Yea the jury claimed they would've voted for her, but i think that's after the show bullshit. She wouldve had a few locked in votes, but I'd doubt it would be the landslide they want to pretend it would be.

[JudyObscure]

12 hours ago, tinkerbell said:

When Joe heard that Eva had a PhD, and all her accomplishments,  I wonder if he felt used and manipulated.

I definitely think he did. I think he had felt paternal and protective of both Eva and Kyle, the fragile autistic girl and the young fellow black who had experienced a rough childhood.

I really felt Joe's sense of betrayal and embarrassment to find out they were so much more educated than he is and held jobs that were higher on the economic/social scale. He made a last ditch effort to use that to his advantage with the jury when he said he was just a lowly fireman, but it didn't help. I was rooting for Kyle all season but if I had been on the jury I might have changed my mind at the last minute and voted for Joe just out of sympathy.  I thought I saw his faith in humanity take a big hit.

8 hours ago, North of Eden said:

And finally Eva's persuasive argument to win...VOTE FOR ME BECAUSE I'M AUSTISIC.

Can we blame her for thinking that was enough?  Why did Erica get advantages handed to her?  The "turn back time" advantage was the most unfair thing I've seen on the show, but the producers were clearly determined to have her win that season.  Jeff made it obvious he was favoring Maryanne throughout her season and her pre- planned speech about optics and always wanting to see people like her on TV was a very close version of Eva's jury speech.

Jeff  started turning Survivor into the After School Special way back with the durag episode and he's been looking for repeats of that ever since.

[North of Eden]

1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

  Why did Erica get advantages handed to her?  The "turn back time" advantage was the most unfair thing I've seen on the show,

In my opinion it is the entire fire challenge that we are now stuck with because they have to save face because they know that we know they only did it to get Ben to the finish line but they have to continue it to make it look like it was legit not producer manipulation for the desired outcome.

[kav]

10 hours ago, tinkerbell said:

But i DO know what it is like. And I know that it is more helpful to learn and practice coping strategies than to teach others to hold your hands. If you have autism and/or anxiety, preparing for a show like Survivor needs to involve practicing self regulation strategies. 

I am not being judgmental.  I'm saying that the question should be "what can I do to calm down and focus?", NOT " what can I ask someone else to do?"  She chose one person as her helper, on a show where people get voted off one at a time. She should not have put Joe in that position, and she should not have put herself in the position where she was dependent on him. 

That might be true for you, but you are one person and Eva chose to do what was most helpful FOR HER.  It seems you are saying that people should not utilize other people to help them calm down if that is what they need.  It seems like you are saying she should have told nobody about what she needs, that would not have been helpful to her during the challenge with the balls, and would have made it harder for her to calm down in that situation.  You can practice many different self coping strategies at any time, but until a situation happens, you have no idea which ones will work and which ones will not be helpful.

[Chicago Redshirt]

17 hours ago, kav said:

I think this experience will teach him that being the kind, thoughtful person that his kids look up to is more important than being physical.

I hope in terms of real life he already knows that. I was purely talking about if he gets invited back for S50 or some future season, Joe has areas to change up his game from nice guy/challenge beast to better compete against people who take more conventional approaches to hopefully get him a million dollars.

13 hours ago, surfgirl said:

She went on the war path, IIRC, for Star, even when Star was so kind and really threw her own game to support Eva by giving her the Idol, which Star should not have done. Which supports my above earlier comment, Star should not have been put in the position to feel like she had to give special treatment to Eva, yet she did because she's a lovely, caring human being. And even so, Eva couldn't manage to think, 'hey, maybe I should protect this nice person and help her stay in the game longer'.

I think Star is a wonderful person and would love to see more of her somehow, but she is just not cut out for Survivor. She is honest to a fault. And so I take her at face value that she gave Eva the idol because Eva solved the puzzle and Star never ever would have. Without solving the puzzle, Star would have been indefinitely voteless since it was a Beware advantage. I think if any of the others had basically singlehandedly solved the puzzle for her, Star would have done the same thing and given it to them out of gratitude. 

Now should Star/did Star expect a little reciprocity from Eva? Yes.

I may go back to some of those earlier episodes because it seems like her tribemates all were dissing Star, which makes me want to hate them more because the more we saw of her, the cooler she seemed.

[Neveragain]

On 5/22/2025 at 11:51 AM, Arkay said:

At the beginning I really loved Joe and felt for Eva.

As time went on I got kind of sick of them.

Joe earned his immunity wins,  but he and Eva being an unbreakable duo made me think that Eva was being handed this game on a platter. Figuratively and even literally, when an advantage was tucked into her ASSIGNED seat.

 

Not disregarding Eva’s autism, but to me Mitch was more handicapped in a way. I wish he hadn’t been such a follower and had made some moves.

 

Kyle’s plan to oust  Shauhin was the winning play. We hadn’t seen very much  strategy this season.  Kamilla teed Kyle  up and he crushed it at FTC. 
 

You could see it on Joe and Eva’s faces—-they had NO clue and were outwitted.

I agree with just about every word, except that I was meh on Joe from the beginning.  Way too intense with the glares and the “my way or the highway” demeanor.  Like he acted as if he was the dad of everyone and would teach them how to behave properly, and then punish them if they didn’t.  

[iMonrey]

14 hours ago, surfgirl said:

Which supports my above earlier comment, Star should not have been put in the position to feel like she had to give special treatment to Eva, yet she did because she's a lovely, caring human being.

This also happened right after Eva had her giant meltdown after the challenge and told everyone she was autistic. It seems like from that moment on, everyone felt like they had to treat her with kid gloves.

The biggest and most frustrating mystery all season was: "Why isn't anyone targeting Joe and Eva?" We asked that question week after week. And now the answer seems fairly obvious. The players felt like Eva was more or less untouchable because she was "special." And in a way, she was more of a shield for Joe than the other way around, because they knew if they voted off Joe, Eva would probably have another meltdown.

In any other season the other players would have tried to flush that idol. It's not just strategy, it's common sense. But nobody ever tried. Because God forbid they upset Eva, and weren't worried she would win anyway.

So yeah, Eva and Joe did become the ultimate goats. Despite the narrative the show tried to push, the players knew they were more or less obliged to carry these two to the finale.

[tinkerbell]

1 hour ago, kav said:

That might be true for you, but you are one person and Eva chose to do what was most helpful FOR HER.  It seems you are saying that people should not utilize other people to help them calm down if that is what they need.  It seems like you are saying she should have told nobody about what she needs, that would not have been helpful to her during the challenge with the balls, and would have made it harder for her to calm down in that situation.  You can practice many different self coping strategies at any time, but until a situation happens, you have no idea which ones will work and which ones will not be helpful.

And all that you're saying is fine, in normal circumstances. NOT when you're in a contest and the people you expect to help you are supposed to be competing against you for the same prize you want to win.

[Chicago Redshirt]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

The biggest and most frustrating mystery all season was: "Why isn't anyone targeting Joe and Eva?" We asked that question week after week. And now the answer seems fairly obvious. The players felt like Eva was more or less untouchable because she was "special." And in a way, she was more of a shield for Joe than the other way around, because they knew if they voted off Joe, Eva would probably have another meltdown.

In any other season the other players would have tried to flush that idol. It's not just strategy, it's common sense. But nobody ever tried. Because God forbid they upset Eva, and weren't worried she would win anyway.

So yeah, Eva and Joe did become the ultimate goats. Despite the narrative the show tried to push, the players knew they were more or less obliged to carry these two to the finale.

Alternatively, the players had a fundamentally different view than us of everyone's threat level.

I've said a few times that I thought Mitch was a non-factor, that Mitch was likely to make the FTC as a goat because why would anyone vote for him. But from what the players indicated Mitch was in fact one of the biggest threats because everyone liked him.

No argument from me that TPTB would have loved it if Eva won, or that things lined up about as best they could for that to happen to the point that it's not tinfoil-hattery to suspect TPTB put their fingers on the scales.

But regardless of whatever narrative TPTB spun or how many advantages they throw a player's way, they can't make the players vote any way other than the players want to vote. If that were not so, surely we would be talking about the coronation of Prom Queen Eva (or maybe Prom King Joe).

It seems the players knew they were not going to name a person who had an epic meltdown over a relatively minor thing as the Sole Survivor, and thus it was safe to let her continue in the game as a goat.

Going to the alternate realities, I now wonder if there is a scenario in which both Joe and Eva get to the FTC and one of them gets a majority vote against Mitch, Shauhin or even Mary. (We know that Kamilla would have won). I think it's far more likely that Joe and Eva split votes and the third person gets 3-4 votes, either winning outright or winning on a tiebreaker.

[blackwing]

19 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Well then I'm a bad person too because I wondered what would happen if instead of coddling and encouraging Eva during her near meltdown at fire making, Kamilla had instead leaned over and said "Yeah, you're gonna lose. You're fire is going out, you're gonna lose." And then watch Eva collapse on the ground in an emotional heap and start screaming her head off like when she was practicing. And then Joe would have to come over and hold her and calm her down. Meanwhile Kamilla could just relax and sit there and make her fire and win.

Yeah I know I'm going to hell. I've already got my handbasket all picked out.

But seriously, when I look back (again) at that Very Special Episode early on when Eva had her first meltdown after a challenge and it made Jeffy cry and CBS dedicated an entire, commercial-free half hour to it, it makes me think this is where the other players sort of took their cue WRT Eva from that moment forward, coddling and babying her and never targeting her. Because they recognized in that moment that Eva was the Very Special Player of the Season and therefore untouchable, yet nobody worried she would win because they collectively knew they were all carrying her without saying it out loud.

They didn't do her any favors. She genuinely looked like she was going to cry after Kamilla undercut her argument at the final tribal council and credited Kyle instead. And she looked gobsmacked when Jeff started pulling out more votes for Kyle. It appears that Eva is used to being coddled and getting what she wants.

I fully agree.  I think that contestants were afraid of looking like they were bad people if they went after the autistic woman who just had a full blown meltdown.  I wouldn't put it past Jeffy and the show producers to dictate that she was "good TV" and that she needed to stay on the show.  Even if they didn't directly issue the mandate, we have all seen how Jeffy goes out of his way to manipulate the outcomes.  His comments during challenges, his questions during Tribal council. 

The cameramen could easily influence the contestants as well.  "What did you think of Eva's meltdown on the beach?"  "Were you surprised to learn about the bond between Eva and Joe?"  "If you try and target one of them, how do you think that would look?"  "Are you concerned that if you go after the autistic woman who just had a huge meltdown, that audiences at home will think that you are heartless?"  "Do you think your family would be proud of you if you went after the autistic woman?"

I absolutely loved the voting.  When Kyle got a second vote, Eva was stunned and gaped open her mouth like an idiotic goldfish.  She assumed that Kamilla would vote for Kyle but when someone else voted for him she couldn't hide her astonishment that people wouldn't vote for her purely because she's autistic.

15 hours ago, kav said:

Joe was not "an adult babysitter", and I believe that is a very rude statement to make.  Eva showed from the start that she DOES have what it takes to be on the show, is very courageous, strong, determined, hard working.  Sorry you feel it is "a problem" that her being unable to self regulate herself and have meltdowns is something bad, SHE CAN NOT COTROL IT, IT IS HOW HER BRAIN WORKS IN SOME MOMENTS.  

It is not fair that her and many others brains are wired differently and work differently for reasons that are not known and will not be known anytime soon.  It is not fair that she has to work harder to succeed in a world that is not made for her.  It is not fair how much energy it can take to mask emotions to try to fit in with those around them.

I don't feel like it was a rude comment at all.  I agree with it.  Joe spent almost the entirety of his time as her protector, guardian, psychiatrist and babysitter.  When she had her meltdown at the Final 4 challenge, he couldn't go to her because he was still competing.  But I would not be surprised if he was thinking about her as she was sobbing uncontrollably and lost concentration.

She broke down while practicing making fire to the point where Joe went to her.  He felt so protective of her that he pretty much offered to sacrifice himself for her, so she wouldn't have to go through the trauma and pain of trying to make fire.  That's babysitting.

Sure, it is unfortunate for her that she is autistic.  I can't imagine what it's like for her to have to deal with it and have to work harder than people who are not neurodivergent.  But what is not fair is that all of the other contestants were made to feel like they had to tiptoe around her.  What is not fair is that she was handed all these advantages, especially the one where the clue was hidden in her personal chip bowl and they had assigned seats.  Egregious manipulation by the producers.

8 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

I definitely think he did. I think he had felt paternal and protective of both Eva and Kyle, the fragile autistic girl and the young fellow black who had experienced a rough childhood.

I really felt Joe's sense of betrayal and embarrassment to find out they were so much more educated than he is and held jobs that were higher on the economic/social scale. He made a last ditch effort to use that to his advantage with the jury when he said he was just a lowly fireman, but it didn't help. I was rooting for Kyle all season but if I had been on the jury I might have changed my mind at the last minute and voted for Joe just out of sympathy.  I thought I saw his faith in humanity take a big hit.

Can we blame her for thinking that was enough?  Why did Erica get advantages handed to her?  The "turn back time" advantage was the most unfair thing I've seen on the show, but the producers were clearly determined to have her win that season.  Jeff made it obvious he was favoring Maryanne throughout her season and her pre- planned speech about optics and always wanting to see people like her on TV was a very close version of Eva's jury speech.

Jeff  started turning Survivor into the After School Special way back with the durag episode and he's been looking for repeats of that ever since.

I agree with you, I felt bad for Joe.  His stunned look when he found out that these two "kids" are so much smarter and more accomplished than him said it all.  "Here I've been trying to use my life experience and wisdom to guide these two kids throughout the game, and now on the last day, I find out they've been putting me on for the whole time.  I feel even dumber than I already am."

Was the durag episode the same season where there was an episode where they were divided in half for the immunity challenge and there were two tribal councils?  The second group had planned to vote out a Black contestant, but then when they entered tribal council and saw that the first group had voted out a Black contestant, one of the Black females broke down and said it pained her that two Black contestants had gotten voted out in a row and she didn't want the planned vote to be the third?  Was that the season of Maryanne?

 

Edited Friday at 06:58 PM by blackwing

[Tango64]

I don't think Joe will ever say it out loud to anyone, but that look on his face made clear that he felt duped and used. Makes me wonder if there is a man in every facet of Eva's life, education, and career that understands Joe's reaction -- or will later.

 

[kav]

20 minutes ago, blackwing said:

She broke down while practicing making fire to the point where Joe went to her.  He felt so protective of her that he pretty much offered to sacrifice himself for her, so she wouldn't have to go through the trauma and pain of trying to make fire.  That's babysitting.

I am sorry that you feel the need to call that choice "babysitting".  It is not that, and it can be very hurtful for you to refer to it refer to it as that.  Kyle ALSO was going to offer to do the fire challenge instead of her.  This shows that they both have a lot of care and empathy for their friend Eva, even during the competition.  

26 minutes ago, blackwing said:

Sure, it is unfortunate for her that she is autistic.  I can't imagine what it's like for her to have to deal with it and have to work harder than people who are not neurodivergent.  But what is not fair is that all of the other contestants were made to feel like they had to tiptoe around her

Until any of the contestants say out loud that they tiptoed around her after they found out, then  that is just an untrue assumption that some viewers choose to believe.  Also it is very rude to refer to anyone on the Spectrum as "unfortunate".  It is a part of who they are, it is not a negative aspect of them.  

[bankerchick]

21 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

In that final reward challenge, my wife noted that although Eva and Kamilla were both caked with mud, they seemed to have freshly applied lipstick.

Priorities. It's fine to have specks of mud in your carbonara, but God forbid that your lips do not seem to have maximum kissability.

At one point, well after the challenge, Eva had mud on her teeth!  First of all, how did mud dry there?  Does she not have any saliva in her mouth that would rinse that off?  At that moment I was convinced the 'mud' was actually makeup, or they were told to jump in and muddy up as much as they could before interviews.

20 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Yeah I know I'm going to hell. I've already got my handbasket all picked out.

As someone also going, I wonder if my handbasket should be contrasting or complementary?

18 hours ago, eel2178 said:

Third prize, invested well, could do a lot for his family. Just because he didn't come in first doesn't mean he lost out of financial security. 

I'm not sure where you guys all live (yes, I say 'guys' even though some are girls.  Get over it Jeff,) but around here, ain't nobody worrying about a firefighter having financial security.  Not saying they don't deserve it, just saying money is not a problem.

 

[JudyObscure]

1 hour ago, blackwing said:

Was the durag episode the same season where there was an episode where they were divided in half for the immunity challenge and there were two tribal councils?  The second group had planned to vote out a Black contestant, but then when they entered tribal council and saw that the first group had voted out a Black contestant, one of the Black females broke down and said it pained her that two Black contestants had gotten voted out in a row and she didn't want the planned vote to be the third?  Was that the season of Maryanne?

 

The durag episode was earlier than the Maryanne season, but yes the sudden change to a white person at the second TC was what I call the "optics" thing and that was Maryanne's season ( I think.) 

For awhile there CBS was trying to win some kind of self-made diversity award, which I'm all in favor of, except for when you're in a contest for a million dollars or as  Tinkerbell just said:

 

3 hours ago, tinkerbell said:

NOT when you're in a contest and the people you expect to help you are supposed to be competing against you for the same prize you want to win.

 

[Chicago Redshirt]

1 hour ago, kav said:

Until any of the contestants say out loud that they tiptoed around her after they found out, then  that is just an untrue assumption that some viewers choose to believe. 

It is an assumption that some players were tiptoeing around Eva. It may be true or untrue. 

For better or worse, we will never really know.

If each player were directly asked a series of questions on the topic (doubtful) and gave a direct and detailed answer to each (even more doubtful), one could take those answers at face value, certainly.

But especially given that the people answering are not necessarily truthful and in fact all competed in a game where deception is a fundamental part, the possibility would exist that the players were lying to us, lying to themselves, misremembering, forgetting or ignoring what their game-time motivations might have been, etc.

I choose to assume that most of the contestants liked Eva and didn't let her autism color their actions. I would not be surprised if one or two did think "I don't want look like a douchebag on national TV so I'm not going to target Eva" or "I don't want to anger Joe so I'm not going to target Eva." 

 

Edited Friday at 08:29 PM by Chicago Redshirt

[blackwing]

1 hour ago, kav said:

I am sorry that you feel the need to call that choice "babysitting".  It is not that, and it can be very hurtful for you to refer to it refer to it as that.  Kyle ALSO was going to offer to do the fire challenge instead of her.  This shows that they both have a lot of care and empathy for their friend Eva, even during the competition.  

Until any of the contestants say out loud that they tiptoed around her after they found out, then  that is just an untrue assumption that some viewers choose to believe.  Also it is very rude to refer to anyone on the Spectrum as "unfortunate".  It is a part of who they are, it is not a negative aspect of them.  

I'm sorry that you feel that any criticism of Eva is "hurtful".  To who?  To her?  She put herself on TV and that opens her up to criticism.

I see what Joe did as babysitting.  Eva was sobbing loudly while trying to practice making fire.  Kyle and Joe were sitting somewhere apart from her but within earshot.  When she started in with the wailing, Joe's head popped up.  Kyle said to Joe, "it's not wrong to put her in this position, is it?  I think we might need to check on her."  Joe said "I'm gonna do that".  Kyle then said something about looking at her as a person and thinking about how she feels.

The fact that Kyle had to think about whether it was right to put Eva into fire, saying that there was more to it than just the game, saying they need to check on her, and wondering if he should just put himself into fire so that Eva wouldn't have to do it.  All of that speaks volumes.  It shows that Kyle was treating Eva differently, because of her autism.  He was treating her with kid gloves because she was having yet another meltdown.  He was going to risk his security in the game purely because he was worried that she was going to have a breakdown.

I think that's crazy.  In all the seasons they have had firemaking, not once has anyone questioned whether it was right to put someone into fire because they were concerned that the person's mental and emotional stability couldn't handle it.  It clearly shows that the contestants were giving Eva special treatment because of her autism.

Joe saying he was going to go check on her and make sure she is ok... that's babysitting.  No one went and checked in with Kamilla to make sure she was ok.  Because she didn't require special treatment and she didn't require babysitting.

As far as "unfortunate"... you were the one that repeatedly said it was "not fair" that Eva is autistic and has to go through life dealing with things that many do not.

[kav]

2 hours ago, blackwing said:

I'm sorry that you feel that any criticism of Eva is "hurtful".  To who?  To her?  She put herself on TV and that opens her up to criticism.

To many people who are on the Autism Spectrum and their significant others who are there for them every day of their lives because they love them and care about them and it hurts to see them struggle. To the people who did not choose to have it and did not choose to have to be in a world that is not made for them to be successful where they have to use extra energy everyday of their lives.

2 hours ago, blackwing said:

It shows that Kyle was treating Eva differently, because of her autism. 

It shows he wanted to help take away to pain he saw in his friend because it hurt him to see someone he cares about having such a hard time.  It showed that he has empathy and cared about more than the game.

[iMonrey]

4 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I've said a few times that I thought Mitch was a non-factor, that Mitch was likely to make the FTC as a goat because why would anyone vote for him. But from what the players indicated Mitch was in fact one of the biggest threats because everyone liked him.

I'm not taking Kamilla and Eva's word for it that Mitch was such a huge threat in a final three situation. They always tell that to the person they vote out in fifth. Unlike Kyle, Mitch had nothing on his resume to sell to the jury.

2 hours ago, blackwing said:

I see what Joe did as babysitting.

It looks like the way Eva has been treated all her life has somewhat infantilized her. The way she latched onto Joe on Day 1, the way she latched onto David after the tribal swap, and mainly her reactions during this final tribal council showed me she's used to people treating her like a little girl and giving her what she wants.

[violet and green]

1 hour ago, kav said:

To many people who are on the Autism Spectrum and their significant others who are there for them every day of their lives because they love them and care about them and it hurts to see them struggle.

Do you know what I found hurtful? I found Eva's inspiring statement about her autism to everyone the day after her meltdown at the challenge - about how if you have parents who really put everything into it you can be like her and go to college. Not my relative, whose mother put her entire life into trying to help him. He is now a middleaged man, still non-verbal, on multiple chemical restraints to stop him acting out his natural sexual urges on her and other difficult behaviours.

It certainly is a spectrum.

[surfgirl]

1 hour ago, violet and green said:

Do you know what I found hurtful? I found Eva's inspiring statement about her autism to everyone the day after her meltdown at the challenge - about how if you have parents who really put everything into it you can be like her and go to college. Not my relative, whose mother put her entire life into trying to help him. He is now a middleaged man, still non-verbal, on multiple chemical restraints to stop him acting out his natural sexual urges on her and other difficult behaviours.

It certainly is a spectrum.

I'm so sorry about your relative. I too, have three relatives that are diagnosed on the spectrum and one is almost catatonic, the other one presents as non-spectrum but in reality cannot hold a job, etc. and will have a tough adulthood. And the third presents as non-spectrum too, but he lives with his mother, is a shut in, and will never be able to lead a life anything like Eva, he will be lucky if his mom can get him into a group home situation. And all three relatives parents are good parents. So yes, I felt that was really a weird thing to say, as if those who really struggle with their own type of autism somehow have lazy parents who dropped the ball.

[Chicago Redshirt]

14 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I'm not taking Kamilla and Eva's word for it that Mitch was such a huge threat in a final three situation. They always tell that to the person they vote out in fifth. Unlike Kyle, Mitch had nothing on his resume to sell to the jury.

I agree that part of jury management is blowing smoke up the ass of whoever got booted/is about to get booted: "We had to get rid of you because you're such a big threat." And I was just discussing about how one can't necessarily take anyone's statements at face value in or around a game that has deception as one of its pillars.

That said, there are some reasons to believe that in the case of seeing Mitch as a threat it may be true.

1. There was talk about how everyone loved Mitch during the reunion show. I forget who said what exactly, but it seemed genuine to me, and there was no incentive to pump Mitch up at that point.

2. The fact that Kamilla/Kyle chose to boot Mitch rather than then blindsiding a vulnerable Joe and pumping up their resumes and increasing the chances that one of them would win F4 immunity dramatically strongly suggests that in their minds Mitch was a greater threat to them than Joe. (A less charitable interpretation might be that they wanted to avoid Eva without Joe being around to wrangle her, or having to adopt Eva wrangling duties).

3. Mitch now strikes me as smart enough to construct a FTC argument better than I would have originally given him credit for. Yes, his stammer would make it hard to listen to, but it might generate sympathy to get some votes. I could now see him in a F3 with Joe and Eva basically arguing that he got to the end through his social game and despite his resume basically having a single "Helluva guy!" line, that should be enough. 

I think the lesson Survivor has shown us is the race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, nor the FTC vote to the person with the best resume (Hi Gabler!), but it's a whole bunch of dynamics that might play in how a particular jury sees people.

[ljenkins782]

On 5/22/2025 at 7:39 AM, JudyObscure said:

I've liked Kyle and Kamilla from the start so I'm very happy with Kyle winning.

I'm not even unhappy that Kamilla gave Kyle permission to dump her because it fits with my impression of Kamilla as the greatest person on earth!  She's brilliant, she's funny, she's kind, she has adorable smoky eyes!  I'm her super-fan.

I hate the fire challenge.  After struggling all season we have to watch two people hand their fate to the wind.  It's like a slow motion coin toss.

I am glad Cedric voted for Joe. They are both innocents who think the money should go to whoever needs it most.  You could tell Joe was thinking the crowd wouldn't give money to a lawyer or a doctor of scientific engineering who's researching the Navy (whatever she is.)  Not when they could give the money to a simple, humble man who put's my life on the line for others and has children.

Ah well.  I loved this season.  Yall quit complaining or we won't have this anymore and Survivor at it's worst is still better than most of the stuff on TV.  Plus we had those ads with Rick the goat.

 

I loved this season too, there were multiple people I would have liked to see win, I almost wish they’d been on separate seasons so they could each win. These shows are like that, there are seasons where I don’t want anyone to win and then a packed season where I want everyone to win.

Honestly, I could’ve watched an hour of Kyle, Joe, and Mitch busting balls back at camp while Eva was off eating her 500th reward meal. Kyle seems like a lot of fun and Joe seemed most natural when they were hanging out.

i will not miss Eva talking with her teeth and her tone deafness about her good fortune throughout the game. I wonder how Star feels now about that Eva vote after watching the season. Even her fire making triumph was somewhat lucky in that Kamilla was either naturally hopeless or throwing it for some reason.

i was surprised to see that the jury thought so highly of Kamilla, the edit didn’t suggest that at all.