S06.E01: Vegas

[marceline]

It is ridiculous that they got a charter school together, all the regulations, approvals, tax money, etc,  in this amount of time.   That does not happen.  I still don't understand the whole concept of the school - who decides which kids are admitted?  What grade levels are being taught?   High schools need teachers who are specialized in various areas.  With less than 50 kids total, how in the world are they able to afford math, science, literature, history, etc. teachers?  If the kids are like Max, some might be advanced in different areas.  You can't just have one classroom teacher who is knowledgeable in all things. 

 

It's amazing how the person who did such a good job depicting high school in Friday Night Lights managed to create such a half-assed plot.

[wonderwoman]

"It's amazing how the person who did such a good job depicting high school in Friday Night Lights managed to create such a half-assed plot."

I've been asking that same question as I've hate-watched every episode. And I just don't mean Jason Katims' Asperger agenda; from the beginning, I felt that he never delved as deeply into the emotional underpinnings of the characters as he did in Friday Night Lights. I think part of it is too many characters to go deep. But, I also wonder how much influence NBC imposed.

Edited September 29, 2014 by wonderwoman

[izabella]

Amber has a job, an apartment, a car, close family who love her and manages to feed and cloth herself.  I still fail to see why she isn't capable of managing one baby herself?

 

Unless Amber has a LOT of hands-on baby care help from her family, I'm not sure how she will be working.  Child care costs would eat up her whole salary, unless Adam and Crosby are paying her way more than any receptionist on the planet earns.  I suppose they'll just have her bring her baby to the Luncheonette every day, and that won't be a problem at all for anyone.

Edited September 29, 2014 by izabella

[audreysurpKC]

In my search for a new series to watch, I decided to check out this season premiere. I know I am late to the game and I am not familiar with the characters, but I do not understand how this TV show has made it so far. Almost nothing of consequence happened in the SEASON OPENER. Additionally, these characters just banter the entire episode. Is the show going downhill because they know they are in their last season? Is it worth watching the show from the beginning?

[bybrandy]

Who is watching Aida and Nora? Obviously both these babies have higher income parents, but it isn't addressed.

[Eeksquire]

@audreysurpKC, the first season of this show is, IMO, one of the best tv series out of the gate that I've seen in a long time.  Unfortunately, due to a variety of factors, including cast size, being perpetually on the cancellation bubble and Katims' autism agenda, the show has pretty much declined every season it's been on.  If you are looking for something good to watch, start from the beginning.  Being a completionist, I am still watching, but I am enjoying it less and less each week, which is depressing.

[Kris117]

I'm also confused on the Snowflake Academy.  Wouldn't the students all have Autism, like Max?  If so, how likely is it that they would all be shaking hands with Kristina, making eye contact and smiling as they went inside?

 

I thought that was a bit strange. Surely there would have been some of the kids they were building the school for who wouldn't be comfortable being touched. 

 

My only guess as to how Haddie turned out so differently is that she was raised by wolves and/or determined to get the hell out of there by getting a scholarship.

I think that Haddie raised herself from not too long after Max was born. Back when she was at home, she had the role of a junior parent rather than a sister. Having been one of those for a far different reason, there is a lot of good in that role, but it also has a downside.

 

Listening to Adam, Christina, and Max all talking at the same time while walking around the school made me want to muzzle and gag all three of them. I swear, there is no parenting left in Adam and Christina. Max dictates everything and they just roll over. He announces he is going to continue home schooling instead of attending Snowflake Academy and then tells them that he is going to get pizza. Their response is, "No, Max, we're not done talking about this!...Okay, he's gone." The complete lack of discipline, boundaries, or consequences for his actions just kills me. Adam and Christina are the worst.

I was sure that finally one of them was going to be a grownup and ask Max, "So, who is going to be doing this homeschooling you plan on attending? Both of your parents have full-time jobs, so we aren't available to homeschool you. If you want to be homeschooled, you do the legwork and find someone qualified to do it. We have provided you with an opportunity for schooling; if you don't want to attend, find your own school or go back to the public school. Those are your choices."

On the other hand, the way they managed to get the beginning of the school year without dealing with Max not wanting to go to their academy is a good example of their "Avoid, avoid, avoid, whine, whine whine, then knuckle-under" style of parenting.

 

One thing I love about the Braverman clan is that they consider everyone to be family. Joel, who married into the family but is separated from Julia, is more than happy to help Christina, who also married into the family, with a whole lot of manual labor - and for free! I still remember in the first season when they had a girls' night, Sarah introduced Christina to someone as her sister (not her sister in law) which I found really sweet.

Yes, that's my definition of family, too. That's what keeps me watching, despite all my irritations with the show.

 

Adam and Crosby can also STFU. Listen, Adam, when you are in the ER and dealing with a difficult patient, you don't always have time to be harangued by your sibling on the phone. "Can you believe she hung up on me?" Why, yes, Adam, I can. She told you what was going on and that she had to deal with your dad who you could clearly hear yelling at the doctor. Why would you think that she would choose to stay on the phone with you to get important advice like "Make sure he listens to the doctor" instead of trying to calm your dad down?

Yes, Adam and Crosby were both being jerks there. Sarah got him to the hospital right away, and called her mother. What would they have done differently? Added more volume to the argument with him about checking himself out of the hospital?

 

I also thought Zeke was a goner when he went to take a nap.  I however, was disappointed that he woke up.  He may be the most annoying to me, and his crappy attitude is probably the reason for the rest of the Bravermans' annoying dysfunction.  Does that make me a horrible person?

No, he's the most annoying character to me, too. He's like Max but grown up, so he should really know better.

 

I was dreading Sarah's reaction to Amber's pregnancy.  I was older and educated with a good job when I became pregnant under similar circumstances.  It was hurtful that nobody was happy about my pregnancy.  I understand Sarah's concerns, just like I understood my mom's.  But at that point the ship has sailed.  There is a baby coming into the world, and being openly negative about it is hurtful, and doesn't help at all.  Sarah has every right to be worried, I would be too, but you suck it up and focus on the fact that there is a pregnant woman who needs positive support.  You act happy, even if you aren't.

Yep. As you said, the ship had sailed. The first visible reaction, no matter what your inner reaction is, should be to hug your daughter and tell her what exciting news it is and hug her again. She was trembling and on the verge of tears and looked as if she were about to be sick. She needed a comforting Mom, not a Mom to tell all the things she already knew from growing up with her mother. After the first shock is over, then you take the time to find out her feelings about it and what she wants to do. It isn't about Sarah.

 

I'm less concerned that nobody thought to pick up Julia as I am that nobody seemed to think Camille might want to rush to her husband's bedside, also that if anybody was going to get him to take his heath seriously it was going to be his wife.

That, or just hop on a plane herself, or ask one of the kids to come with her. A woman who can travel to Italy can make a jaunt to Las Vegas. I thought that was odd. Although I certainly understand if she did it because she didn't want to deal with Zeek when he was ill. She's probably had enough of that to last her a couple of lifetimes.

 

You're correct, of course, that "let" isn't the appropriate terminology. But I was frustrated that she wasn't taking a more assertive stance with him. I couldn't help but think think that he might actually listen to her if she just demanded to be taken seriously as an adult. Probably very naive on my part.

No, I agree. If someone is throwing a tantrum, you let it play out and ignore it, which is what the doctor seemed to be doing. While he is throwing a tantrum, steal his clothes and hide them where he can't get to them. Then tell him that you are going to be staying in the hospital, but if he wants to discharge himself and wander around Las Vegas without his clothes, he could do it without Sarah. If he calmed down a bit, she could also point out that they could have tests done right there and then take the results back to his own doctor for treatment.

I was hoping he'd have another collapse as he was yelling his head off in the ER. Or while his kids took him out on the town.

And isn't joking about counting cards in a casino comparable to joking about bombs in an airport? Not in terms of the seriousness of the offense, but in the way you could be quickly surrounded by security with your plans drastically interrupted.

 

In my search for a new series to watch, I decided to check out this season premiere. I know I am late to the game and I am not familiar with the characters, but I do not understand how this TV show has made it so far. Almost nothing of consequence happened in the SEASON OPENER. Additionally, these characters just banter the entire episode. Is the show going downhill because they know they are in their last season? Is it worth watching the show from the beginning?

It's definitely been worth watching for me from the beginning, but very little of consequence happens in most episodes. It's that kind of a show. Most of the action and the drama is on the emotional level and comes from knowing the characters, with occasional dramatic events. I watch intently, but would be hard pressed to write a synopsis of an episode that went beyond, "So-and-so was a jerk, but What's Her Face redeemed herself."

Edited September 29, 2014 by Kris117

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I think Camille didn't fly to Vegas because she was hoping that it was nothing and that Sarah would call her back to say the doctors said he was fine. When my sister was in college, her roommate called me at 2am to tell me that my sister was in the ER but that they didn't know anything yet. She told me to wait until the doctor saw her and they finished running tests. I was only slightly further away (a little over an hour ny plane) but everyone agreed it was best for me not to rush up there until they had a better idea what was going on. To be fair, Adam and Crosby didn't go so much out of worry for Zeke as much as they went because they were annoyed with Sarah and convinced that they would be better than she was.

[Mittengirl]

I have a hunch that one of the story lines this year will be about Max not being welcome to hang out with Hank.

My guess is that Ruby will be spending time at the store (studio?) after school, either willingly or because her folks don't trust her home alone, and she and Max will have issues. Of course, Hank will put his child's needs above Max's and all hell will break lose. Adam and Kristina will be pissed that Hank would dare put his child first and that will drive a wedge between Hank and Sarah.

Or not.

Edited September 29, 2014 by Mittengirl

[txhorns79]

No, I agree. If someone is throwing a tantrum, you let it play out and ignore it, which is what the doctor seemed to be doing. While he is throwing a tantrum, steal his clothes and hide them where he can't get to them. Then tell him that you are going to be staying in the hospital, but if he wants to discharge himself and wander around Las Vegas without his clothes, he could do it without Sarah.

 

I would disagree.  I think that disrespects the parent.  I think you can be assertive with your parent, explain why you feel the way you do, but ultimately it has to be their decision as to what is going to happen.  You just have to accept that your parents may not do what you would want them to do.     

 

 

The first visible reaction, no matter what your inner reaction is, should be to hug your daughter and tell her what exciting news it is and hug her again.

 

I think the better response to be is to show her you are there for her, without suggesting a course of action (unless you know your kid has been trying for a baby).  If you start talking about what exciting news it is, and your kid wants to have an abortion, you've essentially cut yourself off as a resource. 

[ShadowFacts]

I have a hunch that one of the story lines this year will be about Max not being welcome to hang out with Hank.

My guess is that Ruby will be spending time at the store (studio?) after school, either willingly or because her folks don't trust her home alone, and she and Max will have issues. Of course, Hank will put his child's needs above Max's and all hell will break lose. Adam and Kristina will be pissed that Hank would dare put his child first and that will drive a wedge between Hank and Sarah.

Or not.

 

I think so, too.  Max already expressed an interest in Ruby being his girlfriend a while ago before she moved back, and she shut him down.  They're definitely setting something up with all the time they spent on Hank/Ruby/ex-wife/Sara in the episode.  It's going to blow up somehow.

[BC Mama]

Personally, I don't have a problem with Kristina and Adam telling him he needed to attend the school. I do have a problem with how they did it. Saying, "we built this school for you" is emotionally manipulative (and clearly ineffectual), and came across more like begging to me than parenting.

 

In the past we've seen that Max responds well to bargaining (like back in the sticker days) and I would have preferred Max's puppets... I mean parents explaining to Max that they think that the limitations and bullying he experienced at his old school should not be a problem at the Snowflake Academy, but if he was still unhappy after an agreed amount of time (a month, a semester, whatever), they would reexamine the homeschooling option.

[backformore]

Listening to Adam, Christina, and Max all talking at the same time while walking around the school made me want to muzzle and gag all three of them. I swear, there is no parenting left in Adam and Christina. Max dictates everything and they just roll over

 

OK - You just hit one of my big complaints about this show.  They have a kid with autism.  They think they know enough to start a whole school for him. 

But - they never learned basic communication skills.  With any kid, but especially one with autism/asperger's, it's important that parents teach the rule that when one person is talking, the others are listening,.  When family members all talk at once, nobody is listening, everyone is just verbalizing their own thoughts, and there's no real communication happening.  In other words, they're all acting like they have autism.

 

  A kid with autism needs to be taught communication skills - look toward me when we talk, listen to what I have to say, then I'll listen to what you have to say.  Don't monopolize, don't raise your voice, don't use disrespectful language.   All of these would be difficult for Max, but I've never seen evidence that his parents have tried to teach these things.   I'm not even sure his parents KNOW how to do these things.

If you can't demonstrate to your own child how to communicate, how the hell can you open up a school for kids with communication problems? 

[alexvillage]

 

I would disagree.  I think that disrespects the parent.  I think you can be assertive with your parent, explain why you feel the way you do, but ultimately it has to be their decision as to what is going to happen.  You just have to accept that your parents may not do what you would want them to do.

Right. Not only parents, anyone. We tend to think we should be making decisions for people in vulnerable moments but taking away their right to decide is violating their rights. 

 

 

In other words, they're all acting like they have autism.

That's a huge generalization. Most Autistics DON'T talk on top of each other. It is too overwhelming. And saying that they are acting "like Autistics" implies that Autistics don't know how to communicate. In many cases non-autistics don't know how to listen.

 

 

A kid with autism needs to be taught communication skills - look toward me when we talk, listen to what I have to say, then I'll listen to what you have to say.  Don't monopolize, don't raise your voice, don't use disrespectful language.

Agree that kids have to be taught communication skills. NOT ONLY Autistic kids. It is wrong to demand that Autistics look at people when they talk. It is largely documented - by Autistic themselves - that looking at people during conversations makes it very hard to actually follow the conversation. They find it difficult to use both senses at the same time, and/or get too overwhelmed trying, use too much energy and get depleted sooner. 

Monopolization of conversations, raising voices and respectful language are common sense education. Kids learn by example and not only Autistic kids need to learn those basic things. And no, it is not "harder" for them to learn. Not if people interacting with them understand that communication happens in different ways. What is needed are accommodations on how to teach those things. Method, not intensity.

[Nancybeth]

Okay, wasn't there a period of time after Amber and Ryan broke up where she was going out and drinking a lot and possibly hooking up with guys?  I just assumed THAT was when she got pregnant with some random dude.  And then maybe when she saw Ryan again, it triggered something and made her realize, "Hey, I haven't gotten my period in a while.  Shit, could I be pregnant?"  All she told the doctor was that she wasn't with the father any more.  Have they ever SAID it was Ryan? 

[Cattitude]

Actually it could be quite shocking if they did a twist and showed a flashback where she slept witht he band member Ryan beat up who liked her and he is the father. No she never has said it is Ryan so that could be purposeful on the show's part to make everyone assume that when in fact it isn't him.

[LindaT]

I don't think there is going to be a death.  From what I read it said that someone was going to face mortality.  That can just be health problems.

[Hanahope]

Ah back to my favorite hate-watch show.  The characters are almost uniformly annoying and the story lines ridiculous, yet I can't quit this show.

 

Of course spoiled Max doesn't want to give up the sole attention he got from homeschooling to attend a school where he could be bullied again, even though he'll be teachers pet because teachers owe their job to Max's parents.

 

Of course Zeke isn't interested in health care because how dare sickness invade his body.

 

Of course Sarah is the one with him in Vegas because he's the most responsible to help him out with any problem.  They couldn't get adjoining rooms even?

 

I'm generally on Julia's side because even if the marital problems were partly her fault (as it is usually a lack of communication between two people), Joel refused to try and work on the problems.  If they get back together, its just going to be problems again until and unless they talk about it and/or go to therapy with the goal of working things out.  And frankly, if Joel wanted his marriage, he should have thought of that before he just moved out willy nilly.  Stop being an enabler Camille.  Just because you put up with an ass doesn't mean your kids have to.

[Eeksquire]

 

Stop being an enabler Camille.  Just because you put up with an ass doesn't mean your kids have to.

AMEN.

[Mittengirl]

I think I already know the answer to this, but would someone of Kristina's ilk really be able to start a school? I mean, she has no background in education beyond attending school herself and being the parent of students. In which case the vast majority of American adults are qualified to open a school. I always assumed her degree is in either PR/advertising or poli sci/public administration/urban planning but certainly not education.

Even if she were able to get a school chartered, would any teacher want to work for her? Why would anyone want to work in a very demanding field for someone who hasn't a clue what they are doing? To have to take direction, and you know neither Kristina nor Adam would hesitate to tell a teacher they are doing something wrong, from someone who has no idea what they are yapping about? Why would you subject yourself to that? Not too mention the instability of a brand new school. And to have her son as a student? Oh, hell no.

What would Kristina's title be? The equivalent of superintendent? And do Adam and Julia have positions in the the school administration? Julia was acting as some sort of legal adviser, wasn't she? When she wasn't making out with the teacher Adam and Julia stalked last season. (He seems to have disappeared already. Smart man.)

Edited October 1, 2014 by Mittengirl

[mojito]

 

There is unlimited money in this family. Columbia, studying abroad, etc. In the real world, I don't believe Columbia gives scholarships---only need based aid.

I thought she was at Dartmouth. Or was it Cornell? She wasn't in NYC unless she's transferred.

[ShortyMac]

Cornell in Ithaca, NY.

[backformore]

Alexvillage

That's a huge generalization. Most Autistics DON'T talk on top of each other. It is too overwhelming. And saying that they are acting "like Autistics" implies that Autistics don't know how to communicate. In many cases non-autistics don't know how to listen.

Agree that kids have to be taught communication skills. NOT ONLY Autistic kids. It is wrong to demand that Autistics look at people when they talk. It is largely documented - by Autistic themselves - that looking at people during conversations makes it very hard to actually follow the conversation. They find it difficult to use both senses at the same time, and/or get too overwhelmed trying, use too much energy and get depleted sooner.

Monopolization of conversations, raising voices and respectful language are common sense education. Kids learn by example and not only Autistic kids need to learn those basic things. And no, it is not "harder" for them to learn. Not if people interacting with them understand that communication happens in different ways. What is needed are accommodations on how to teach those things. Method, not intensity.

I think you are mis-interpreting my post. I compared Adam and Kristina's talking to autistic speech because they tend to talk without taking into consideration where the other person is- whether they are listening, or busy, or upset. Some autistic kids talk about their interests, without regarding whether the other person is listening, or is interested. Adam and Kristina remind me of that tendency. It's like they're reciting the names of pokemon cards.

I never said kids have to make eye contact. I said look toward the other person. I work with kids, and one of the things a lot of ASD kids do is respond without facing the person they are responding to. I teach them to make brief, momentary eye contact when greeting someone, and to face in the general direction of the person they are speaking to. If you are turned away, facing a wall, you're not communicating because the other person might not know you're talking to them.

All kids need communication skills, yes. But kids with ASD sometimes have to be taught skills that typical kids pick up from seeing people interact. Max's parents have failed to show him how to communicate. They don't communicate well. That's the main point I wanted to get across.

Edited October 1, 2014 by backformore

[alexvillage]

 

 

I never said kids have to make eye contact. I said look toward the other person. I work with kids, and one of the things a lot of ASD kids do is respond without facing the person they are responding to. I teach them to make brief, momentary eye contact when greeting someone, and to face in the general direction of the person they are speaking to. If you are turned away, facing a wall, you're not communicating because the other person might not know you're talking to them.

All kids need communication skills, yes. But kids with ASD sometimes have to be taught skills that typical kids pick up from seeing people interact. Max's parents have failed to show him how to communicate. They don't communicate well. That's the main point I wanted to get across.

AS I mentioned before, in another post, all I say here are not based on anything else other than what Autistic themselves say. It is true that we, the neuromajority, are used to count on people looking in our direction during conversations in order to know we are the ones being talked to. This should not be the rule, though. That's one reason why accommodations are needed and we need to see autism - and disabilities in general, as not to be fixed. If this type of knowledge, the one Autistic themselves are trying to teach us, is learnt by the majority, we will not need the assurance of having someone looking in our direction when we talk. Thinking about it, it would b a good practice for people to stop talking over each other, they would have to pay ore attention to the interaction.

Having said that, we are not there yet and some adults do develop the "passing" skill and do look in the general direction of the person they talk to (although I will never understand the "look me in the eyes" thing, since nobody neurotypical I know looks at people in the eyes, yet they are not asked to). They also say that this is still hard and energy consuming. Non-speaking Autistics that are now typing also say that. I defer to them, Autistics, to let me know what helps them. If they say that looking past the person, or slightly to the side of the person (I don't know anyone who talks to a person while facing a wall) is easier and makes more sense to them, then I have to agree. I am not the one who should decide the best way for other people to cope with overload.

 

That's also one of the points of the neurodiversity movement: acceptance of different ways of thinking, without trying to change how people think - and react to the environment - since it does not hurt anyone. Just because we are the majority and used to a certain way it does not mean it is the only, right way. And Neurodiversity is actually a biological thing, not a "behavioral" thing

 

Totally agree that Max has terrible examples (the characters must "suffer" from Bravermanism)  and I did misunderstand parts of your post. My apologies

[ShadowFacts]

 

I think I already know the answer to this, but would someone of Kristina's ilk really be able to start a school? I mean, she has no background in education beyond attending school herself and being the parent of students. In which case the vast majority of American adults are qualified to open a school. I always assumed her degree is in either PR/advertising or poli sci/public administration/urban planning but certainly not education.

 

Yes, she could, at least in my area of the country.  People with no education backgrounds whatsoever open charter schools here all the time.  Many of them go belly up pretty fast.  Many of them, from what I've read in some investigative articles, are really not even a good place to send kids for babysitting, much less learning.

[zillabreeze]

 

Yes, she could, at least in my area of the country.  People with no education backgrounds whatsoever open charter schools here all the time.  Many of them go belly up pretty fast.  Many of them, from what I've read in some investigative articles, are really not even a good place to send kids for babysitting, much less learning.

Former Dallas Cowboy Deion Sanders decided to open a charter school.  It's been nothing but drama and legal problems from jump.

[marceline]

Yes, she could, at least in my area of the country.  People with no education backgrounds whatsoever open charter schools here all the time.  Many of them go belly up pretty fast.  Many of them, from what I've read in some investigative articles, are really not even a good place to send kids for babysitting, much less learning.

 

I have a friend who works for an organization that makes education grants including millions to charter school. A good many of them are absolute garbage and way too many of them are run by people like Kristina or worse. One person who ran a charter school used the grant money to go on a shopping spree and claimed that she was buying school supplies and winter clothes for the kids. But last I checked Victoria's Secret didn't sell either of those items. IMO, it's just a way for private companies and grifters to co-opt taxpayer money with little to no accountability so sadly the Snowflake Academy storyline is more reality-based than one might think.

[Jessie Q]

"Is it confirmed that there will be a death this season?  As I was reading all the posts about red herrings (and I agree, Zeke has to be one if someone is definitely going to die), my first thought was Amber dying in childbirth or Christina's cancer coming back and I see someone has mentioned both.  Oh, the possibilities.  It'll SUCK if it's Camille, hasn't she suffered enough?  I actually wouldn't care if they killed off Christina.  Is that bad?"

 

I still have my fingers crossed that Max meets his Maker in a tragic Skittles vending machine "accident."

[LisaM]

Binge watching and just reached this episode. Strange but in the Season Five finale, Baby Aida was blonde and had much paler skin than now. That really threw me. Glad to see Haddie and Amber bonding over Steve. So glad that Amber finally told Sarah about the baby.

[mythoughtis]

Sarah had a true to life reaction. She was shocked. Give the woman 5 minutes to think of something to say to her daughter who takes offense at parents giving advice.  Sarah has got to be one of the worst non abusive parents on television. She has absolutely no idea ( and hasn’t in 5 seasons) what goes on in her offsprings lives.  Lorelei knew what Rory was doing.  

Max should have been told to shut up and quit back talking his parents.  Which should be one of the  rules. He has Asbergers and is high functioning. He understands rules.