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S14.E04: Episode 4

chitowngirl

By chitowngirl
in Call The Midwife

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Jodithgrace

Jodithgrace

I know…talk about ripped from the headlines! Abortion may have been legal, but apparently one had to go through a lot of hoops to get one. It was not always easy in the US, even when it was federally legal. Some states put as many obstacles as possible and have now shut it down altogether. 
 

Between that and the failing measles vaccination campaign, it’s like we haven’t progressed at all since 1970. Thank goodness for Mrs. Trottwood and Andrew, though I’m not sure that even they would have much success against the die hard anti-vaxxers in 2025 USA. 
 

The new nun is adorable, but the sisterhood at Nonnatus house is so small. It must be weird to be the only postulant. Especially when her housemates aren’t constrained by the religious life. I mean, it’s not like they party exactly, but they do have a lot more freedom. 

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Quilt Fairy

Quilt Fairy

(edited)
1 hour ago, Jodithgrace said:

The new nun is adorable, but the sisterhood at Nonnatus house is so small. It must be weird to be the only postulant

It's funny, recently I went back and re-watched the early seasons on Netflix.  In the beginning, there were a good number of nuns at Nonnatus that filled up the chapel at every service, but that you saw at no other time.

Edited by Quilt Fairy
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iMonrey

iMonrey

Are there a lot of anti-vaxxers in the UK? This episode felt oddly timely. 

Maybe I missed something or else the PBS broadcast cut something relevant out, but I was confused at the end when Mrs. Higgins was credited for getting that kid back into school. I didn't remember her involvement at all. Sister Veronica and Violet were the ones working on fixing it.

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txhorns79

txhorns79

(edited)
1 hour ago, Quilt Fairy said:

In the beginning, there were a good number of nuns at Nonnatus that filled up the chapel at every service, but that you saw at no other time.

I remember that.  Perhaps it is just no longer in the show's budget to have so many extras, or that the prayer scenes simply were not necessary.  Though I would agree that a real convent in a city like London would likely need to have more than the three nuns we regularly see to stay open. 

Edited by txhorns79
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Mermaid Under

Mermaid Under

(edited)
Quote

Mrs. Higgins was credited for getting that kid back into school

I think Mrs.Higgins procured his outfit so he could join the local scout troop that seems to show up from time to time in this show.  I don't think he was back in school yet.  The letter just said they were re-examining his case.

I'm not sure I was as thrilled with this episode as most.  I thought it had too many trite endings.  The woman wanted an abortion, but she miscarried before she could have one. And then they killed her off for wanting her tubes tied. The useless father suddenly melted with just word from Phyllis, and turned into Dad of the year.

The only thing that interested me from a story line perspective was Sister Monica Joan's reaction to the new postulant.  Even with her fluctuating dementia, she seemed aware enough to be distinctly jealous of this very young, very talented woman joining their crew.

Edited by Mermaid Under
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libgirl2

libgirl2

1 hour ago, Mermaid Under said:

I think Mrs.Higgins procured his outfit so he could join the local scout troop that seems to show up from time to time in this show.  I don't think he was back in school yet.  The letter just said they were re-examining his case.

I'm not sure I was as thrilled with this episode as most.  I thought it had too many trite endings.  The woman wanted an abortion, but she miscarried before she could have one. And then they killed her off for wanting her tubes tied. The useless father suddenly melted with just word from Phyllis, and turned into Dad of the year.

The only thing that interested me from a story line perspective was Sister Monica Joan's reaction to the new postulant.  Even with her fluctuating dementia, she seemed aware enough to be distinctly jealous of this very young, very talented woman joining their crew.

I didn't see jealousy, I saw it as she has something in common with her. 

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Orcinus orca

Orcinus orca

I was pretty surprised to see that the woman could unilaterally decide to get her tubes tied without her husband knowing anything about it.  When I was a young nurse in the 70's in the US, it required not only the husband's consent but a review by the hospital board.  So, sadly like today, the men made decisions about women's health.

And, yes, between the measles and the abortion, it's like the writers were lifting crises from the US right now.

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anna0852

anna0852

(edited)
44 minutes ago, Orcinus orca said:

I was pretty surprised to see that the woman could unilaterally decide to get her tubes tied without her husband knowing anything about it.  When I was a young nurse in the 70's in the US, it required not only the husband's consent but a review by the hospital board.  So, sadly like today, the men made decisions about women's health.

And, yes, between the measles and the abortion, it's like the writers were lifting crises from the US right now.

I was absolutely expecting pushback from the hospital doctor about the tubal ligation. Very surprised that he just went along with it.

I know the lack of nuns in the background is more likely a cost saving measure as the show gets older and more expensive. But it’s also somewhat reflective of the times. In the US new vocations dropped 75% between 1965 and 2010. There was a massive decline in the number of young women electing the religious life.

Edited by anna0852
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AZChristian

AZChristian

View from an old lady who lived through those times.

Back then, if one of your kids caught measles, chicken pox, etc., it was not unheard of to make sure all your kids were exposed to the sick kid to "get it over with" all it once.  In those days, these were considered normal childhood diseases that were not thought of as life threatening.

I chose sterilization in the late 70s.  My husband did have to sign a form giving his permission for me to have the procedure.

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Orcinus orca

Orcinus orca

7 minutes ago, AZChristian said:

View from an old lady who lived through those times.

Back then, if one of your kids caught measles, chicken pox, etc., it was not unheard of to make sure all your kids were exposed to the sick kid to "get it over with" all it once.  In those days, these were considered normal childhood diseases that were not thought of as life threatening.

We grew up in a neighborhood with a lot of large Catholic families and that was before the MMR vaccines were available.  We all got every communicable disease on the books.  There were not reporting and analysis systems back then so no one really know how many kids died.

Once the polio vaccine came out, my mom and a neighbor (both nurses) set up a vaccination clinic in our basement through the Civil Defense.  Having seen widespread reporting on the outcome of the polio infection, people were lining up.

Now that people are hearing of deaths from measles, hopefully they will appreciate the value of science and vaccines. Why in the world would you want your child to die or have lifelong disabilities when it is entirely preventable?

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Notabug

Notabug

(edited)
1 hour ago, AZChristian said:

View from an old lady who lived through those times.

Back then, if one of your kids caught measles, chicken pox, etc., it was not unheard of to make sure all your kids were exposed to the sick kid to "get it over with" all it once.  In those days, these were considered normal childhood diseases that were not thought of as life threatening.

I chose sterilization in the late 70s.  My husband did have to sign a form giving his permission for me to have the procedure.

I did an OB/GYN residency that started in 1982.  by then, there was no requirement for the husband to consent to a tubal ligation for his wife.  However, it wasn't long in the past because the OB unit had consent forms for all sorts of things still on file including those meant for the husband to agree to his wife having her tubes tied.  We thought it was utterly ridiculous, antiquated thinking by then which just goes to show how quickly times changed.

One of the hospitals where I trained was Catholic and we were not allowed to perform tubal ligations without consent from the hospital's Medical Morals Committee which was staffed by a couple of nuns, a couple of doctors and a couple of nurses.  We'd submit an application for a tubal ligation, usually one to be done at cesarean or postpartum and the committee would meet once a month and either approve or disapprove the application.  By the time I was a resident, I would estimate that they approved at least 90% of the requests.  Anyone who'd ever had a cesarean was an automatic 'yea'.

We also had a lot of women who'd had a bunch of kids come into the hospital for vaginal hysterectomies or what we liked to call the Catholic Tubal.  After a bunch of deliveries, the vagina was pretty lax and so removing the uterus and repairing the vagina killed two birds with one stone without any interference from Medical Morals.

ETA: Measles vaccine was just introduced in 1963, so it wasn't very long afterwards that the episode took place.  I've been practicing medicine for over 40 years and, in that time, both chicken pox (varicella) and HPV vaccines have been introduced.  When a vaccine is initially available, a lot of people are reluctant to be amongst the first to get it and immunization rates lag for years until more and more people are vaccinated and people see the complication rates are low, the protection is good and it becomes routine.  I expect measles vaccine just hadn't reached the point of widespread acceptance in 1970 in the UK.  I remember receiving it in the doctor's office in 1963or '64 when my younger brother, still an infant, got it.  My mom was a big vaccine lover.

Edited by Notabug
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iMonrey

iMonrey

11 hours ago, Quilt Fairy said:

Are you talking about now or then?   Back in 1970, I think that measles was still considered a "normal" childhood illness that kids got and got over. 

Now. We're seeing an outbreak of measles here in the US, a disease that had largely been eradicated in this country. And now thanks to anti-vaxxers it's back. Children have already died. I was wondering if the same is happening in the UK right now because this episode was so timely.

3 hours ago, anna0852 said:

I was absolutely expecting pushback from the hospital doctor about the tubal ligation. Very surprised that he just went along with it.

But I think that's mostly because it had been recommended by Dr. Turner. Another man. Turner told her two doctors had to sign off on it.

Are we going to see Timothy this season? Where is he?

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Sarah 103

Sarah 103

The new postulant, Catherine, got me thinking about how training works. By the time the series is set, how did training work for the nuns? Did they take the standard medical courses alongside the secular midwives, or did they have their own separate medical education? Do they balance religious training to take orders with medical training? Is it like being a double major in two seemingly unrelated fields or is like having a major in undergrad and then getting an M.A in something else? 

Notabug

Notabug

(edited)
1 hour ago, Sarah 103 said:

The new postulant, Catherine, got me thinking about how training works. By the time the series is set, how did training work for the nuns? Did they take the standard medical courses alongside the secular midwives, or did they have their own separate medical education? Do they balance religious training to take orders with medical training? Is it like being a double major in two seemingly unrelated fields or is like having a major in undergrad and then getting an M.A in something else? 

Nuns who work in regular professions like nursing or teaching have the same qualifications as anyone else in that job.  For midwifery, I don't think that people in that profession needed a college degree back then, but there was certainly a couple years of training resulting in certification and eventual government licensure.  Postulants would probably receive religious training during breaks in the school year.  Or, they did a year or two of religious training, went off to midwifery training and returned to finish their religious vocational work.  It takes a lot of years for a nun to be finally officially consecrated; they want to give them plenty of time to be certain. It is usually at least 6 years before a postulant would take her final vows.

Edited by Notabug
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debraran

debraran

(edited)
19 hours ago, Orcinus orca said:

I was pretty surprised to see that the woman could unilaterally decide to get her tubes tied without her husband knowing anything about it.  When I was a young nurse in the 70's in the US, it required not only the husband's consent but a review by the hospital board.  So, sadly like today, the men made decisions about women's health.

And, yes, between the measles and the abortion, it's like the writers were lifting crises from the US right now.

Maybe it was different in the UK, interracial laws were not the same gladly (hearts are another thing) but they seemed a little better in some areas. I know my Gyn said in the 60's a woman kicked her husband out of her room until she could have a hysterectomy. She had issues and had quite a few kids but he thought of it as permanently changing her and fertility. She won so to speak but they just couldn't do it without his consent. I doubt vasectomies were that way.

12 hours ago, dancingdreamer said:

I love the new postulant, Catherine. Her face is perfect,  it glows.

I had measles  and German measles, all our family  did. I guess when you know better,  you do better ( hopefully) .

I had my tubligation in 1980, I was divorced,  and I told my doctor  I didn't  want  anymore  children,  he took some convincing. 

How old may I ask? I know for me I was mid 30's but they still said "are you sure?" I saw my mom had one on her medical chart in her 80's and she had my brother at 40 , her 4th. I guess they did it then with my dad's approval? She never spoke about it.

I love the new postulant but was sad that she would enter alone. It happens. I follow a few US convents and they send literature because I will give money or items on occasion. Some are small and have one or two enter and others have double digit numbers, 10 or 15 but it's a process. They rarely have that many in a year or two and that's normal. In the "olden" days it was more of an embarrassment and money and being taken care of was part of it if poor in some cases. Now many women are educated or they are asked to be. It's more thoughtful and shame is not there usually if you find God called you elsewhere. Ivy league sisters enter the same as ones who were homeschooled. Very varied today in the US I liked how SMJ helped her understand others reactions and I think will be a mentor.

Edited by debraran
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Shermie

Shermie

Yes, it certainly shows the contrast between different types of parents. 

I don’t have an issue with Timothy not being around. He’s a grown kid with a life of his own and is busy getting an education. That’s normal. No Trixie this week either, but again, normal considering the character’s circumstances.

Agree that the new nun is lovely. But am I the only one who thought she had a hesitancy about her? As she was learning the rules and looking at the activities, there was a reticence about her as if she was rethinking her choice.

I don’t see why anyone would become a nun (or priest) in this day and age, to be honest. You can do God’s work without giving up everything else. It doesn’t make you more faithful or a better Christian. 

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iMonrey

iMonrey

59 minutes ago, Shermie said:

I don’t have an issue with Timothy not being around. He’s a grown kid with a life of his own and is busy getting an education. That’s normal.

I miss him. It's wild to think this is the same kid we met fourteen years ago and now he's an adult studying medicine. And he was helping his father at his practice last season. I hope they can get him for at least one episode.

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Capricasix

Capricasix

That’s a Scottish accent if I’ve ever heard one.

I thought this episode was a marked improvement over the last several eps. More of the midwives doing midwife things, more lively scenes at Nonnatus, more scenes at the maternity home, no pointless side quests at the homeless shelter or whatever. Cyril just isn’t necessary to the show, and I say that as someone who doesn’t mind the character.

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proserpina65

proserpina65

Okay, so I had been saying how this show didn't move me that much anymore, but I have to admit the mother of the child with measles-caused disabilities made me cry.  Possibly because that storyline is so timely right now.

On 4/20/2025 at 11:13 PM, Quilt Fairy said:

It's funny, recently I went back and re-watched the early seasons on Netflix.  In the beginning, there were a good number of nuns at Nonnatus that filled up the chapel at every service, but that you saw at no other time.

It's possible that the number of postulates in the order had declined steeply during the years the series has covered.

On 4/21/2025 at 12:40 AM, txhorns79 said:

Though I would agree that a real convent in a city like London would likely need to have more than the three nuns we regularly see to stay open. 

But is Nonnatus House considered a convent?  Honestly asking because I know very little about Anglican nuns.  Hell, what little I know about nuns in England came from Karen Armstrong's Through the Narrow Gate, which did not explain to me at all why any woman would choose such a life.

On 4/21/2025 at 9:33 AM, anna0852 said:

But it’s also somewhat reflective of the times. In the US new vocations dropped 75% between 1965 and 2010. There was a massive decline in the number of young women electing the religious life.

Yeah, that's my take on it.  And a little googling told me that this was the case in England as well.  Not necessarily the percentage, but a similar steep decline in people joining religious orders.

On 4/21/2025 at 12:10 PM, Notabug said:

in that time, both chicken pox (varicella) and HPV vaccines have been introduced. 

I wish the chicken pox vaccine had been available here in the mid-70s before I got the damned disease.  I really had to sweat the time before my insurance company would cover the shingles vaccine.

On 4/22/2025 at 10:24 AM, Shermie said:

I don’t have an issue with Timothy not being around. He’s a grown kid with a life of his own and is busy getting an education.

He's away at college in Edinburgh, I think, so, like you, I don't expect to see much of him this season.  I like the character and hope we'll maybe see him come home between semesters, but it makes sense that he's not there right now.

 

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Sarah 103

Sarah 103

On 4/22/2025 at 12:45 PM, AZChristian said:

I think Tim looks just like his (show) father, and the little guy looks just like his (show) mother.

Casting really lucked out Tim because they had no idea what he'd like as an adult when they cast him over a decade earlier. 

20 hours ago, jschoolgirl said:

I do, too. The origami nuns were the bomb!

That was some seriously impressive origami. 

In the show Tim is away at University. I think he's officially in medical school at this point. We usually get him for one or two episodes. I'm happy to see him whenever the actor's schedule allows. 

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Ancaster

Ancaster

On 4/21/2025 at 7:40 AM, AZChristian said:

View from an old lady who lived through those times.

Back then, if one of your kids caught measles, chicken pox, etc., it was not unheard of to make sure all your kids were exposed to the sick kid to "get it over with" all it once.  In those days, these were considered normal childhood diseases that were not thought of as life threatening.

 

People still have "chicken pox parties" to this day.

On 4/23/2025 at 3:39 PM, Sarah 103 said:

 

 

 

In the show Tim is away at University. I think he's officially in medical school at this point. We usually get him for one or two episodes. I'm happy to see him whenever the actor's schedule allows. 

In the UK you don't do an undergraduate degree and then a medical degree, you just jump straight into those degrees after high school.  It's five years for your medical degree.

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Calvada

Calvada

My mother, born in the mid 1920s, had a cousin who had permanent damage to her eyes due to measles, another cousin who died of diphtheria, and of course everyone was terrified of polio.  Needless to say, Mom was a huge proponent of vaccination and would be horrified by the return of measles that we are seeing in the U.S.

I too thought it was odd that there wasn't any questioning of the decision to have a tubal ligation, even given the fact that she had seven children.  A friend of mine wanted one at the age of 28, around 1990, about 18 months after having her first child.  Her husband had two children from a prior marriage and they decided three was plenty.  She really had to argue for it, because her doctor thought she would regret the decision.  She never did.  There was no question of her husband having to give consent, although I believe she was asked what her husband thought of her decision.  

There were some odd cuts/jumps from scene to scene in this episode.  I'm sure PBS chopped their usual 3 to 5 minutes.  I'll never understand why they do this.  

I appreciated Sister Monica Joan's talk with Sister Catherine, acknowledging with her all that one has to give up when entering a religious life.  I think with any postulant, Sisters Monica Joan and Julienne feel it is their duty to make sure there aren't any doubts before the final vows are taken. 

I looked up the actress who plays Sister Catherine since she looked very familiar to me.  I didn't recognize any of her credits, so now I'm thinking it's because she resembles someone.  Perhaps Anne Hathaway?  

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