S01.E04: Agent Billy Pace

[AnimeMania]

The citizens of Paradise celebrate at the annual carnival. Xavier and Billy delve deeper into their investigation.

Premiere Date: February 4, 2025   Hulu     

[Anela]

At least we're getting some answers quickly. 

I hate it when they put off sharing important information. 

I figured Jane was a killer, too. Aw, Billy. And that she might have been setting him up for months. As soon as I heard "Every Rose Has It's Thorn" I knew. Damn, that was cold. 

So, one poster was right, and they are keeping them down there, even though there's a chance of surviving outside of their home in the mountain. 

[Snazzy Daisy]

Kudos to Jon Beavers for his compelling performance. Billy’s death is too on the nose, it’s frustrating. He has been poisoned while we hear Poison’s song in the background. Ironic huh.

Gabriela is playing Xavier like a fiddle. She is the true evil here. 😈

Women in Paradise are not to be trusted — Gabriela, Sinatra, Agent Robinson and Jane.

In the airport scene, why does she have blood on her shirt? 🤔

[tessabq]

In the olden days, lol, whenever a character, usually law enforcement, declared they were retiring the next day, you knew they were going to die in the next 12-20 hours.

Today's version of that trope is one character declaring to another that they have crucial information to share but that sharing will have to wait until tomorrow. Might as well shoot themselves in the head.

I agree about Gabriel, not ready to cast Robinson as completely evil yet.

I confess Billy's death broke my heart a little. A tortured kid who really didn't stand a chance at having a "normal" life. 

Ordinarily, I find kids on this type of show irritating. Xavier's kids are the exception that are proving the rule. So far.

[marinw]

I did not see the twist at the end coming! I’m devastated.

Not too surprised that the surface in sort of habitable.

Edited February 5 by marinw

[ShellsandCheese]

I knew Billy was dead as soon as he left Sinatra’s office. It’s unfortunate that it was Jane, the one person he gave love a chance with. 

[Snazzy Daisy]

'Paradise' Stars React to Episode 4 Ending Twist | Hulu

 

[TiffanyNichelle]

4 hours ago, ShellsandCheese said:

I knew Billy was dead as soon as he left Sinatra’s office. It’s unfortunate that it was Jane, the one person he gave love a chance with. 

As soon as he said to send the biggest Sinatra had I knew it was going to be the girlfriend. She was acting too silly the whole time and out of character for the other Secret Service agents. She seemed to have no worries and that made no sense.

This show really had me all over the place with Billy. I was so sure he was the bad guy. Even after Xavier spoke to him and was like "it's not him" I didn't believe it. I mean, yes, he was the bad guy who killed the scientists who found out that up top was survivable but at least we know he didn't kill Cal. Sinatra picking him to come down as one of her killers explained how a trained mercenary ended up in the Secret Service once they went under.

I trust Gabrielle less and less. She's playing some kind of game against Sinatra. She's trying to stir up trouble. I don't know if she wants to expose the fact that they could return to the surface if they want to or if she just wants to remove Sinatra from power.

I'm guessing Cal's missing tablet has all the information about what's happening on the surface? And the carnival was created to celebrate the day the scientists left?

[nilyank]

22 hours ago, Anela said:

So, one poster was right, and they are keeping them down there, even though there's a chance of surviving outside of their home in the mountain. 

Yeah but 3rd world country conditions. God forbid if those 1 percenters actually had to fight to survive with the rest of the population up there.

I am going to trust Xavier's gut moving forward. 

So I guess Billy and Jane were just playing video games. Too bad he didn't realize that she was killer before she killed him.

[SeanBug]

I don't know whether to trust Gabriella or not. Unless Cal knew about the above ground mission he was sent on, which he very well may have. And knew he was part of the cover up.  So maybe Cal threatened to expose the secret and Sinatra had Jane kill him?  And did Sinatra force Billy to kill the scientists as he was the one to suggest Cal make that speech. 

I have to say,  I didn't see almost any of this coming. But I was dealing with a sore back and maybe not paying attention completely to the clues. That being said, this show is bananas and I love it. 

And way to make viewers feel empathy for a guy who had a bad start in life and was trying to be better.  I had to ff thru the opening with the dog. 

Looking back, it didn't make sense that Jane was not very serious as a SS agent.  And the turning cameras off. What in the ever loving fuck.  The whole security detail was a nightmare. 

I still want to know how Sinatra got all this power. 

[SeanBug]

18 hours ago, tessabq said:

In the olden days, lol, whenever a character, usually law enforcement, declared they were retiring the next day, you knew they were going to die in the next 12-20 hours.

Today's version of that trope is one character declaring to another that they have crucial information to share but that sharing will have to wait until tomorrow. Might as well shoot themselves in the head.

I agree about Gabriel, not ready to cast Robinson as completely evil yet.

I confess Billy's death broke my heart a little. A tortured kid who really didn't stand a chance at having a "normal" life. 

Ordinarily, I find kids on this type of show irritating. Xavier's kids are the exception that are proving the rule. So far.

Thank you!! I was paying attention enough to think first Billy is called over for a rather serious discussion with Sinatra, then he stands chatting with Xavier so that anyone watching will think he's spilling the beans, then they say we'll talk tomorrow. WTF.  If you have bad news, tell me now. Don't say I have life and death info, but we'll wait to tell you.  Come on!! 

I do like the kids.  And Billy was super cool with the daughter. Everyone needs a cool uncle or aunt who'll tell you the real deal without the parenting freak out. 

[meep.meep]

Wonder how Gabriel got the scaredy cat son to ride the Ferris wheel all by himself?

[Haleth]

“I’ll tell you tomorrow.”  Argh!  I hate that trope!

[circumvent]

The only thing in this episode that I actually liked is that they showed, although not explicitly, that all pigs are the same, no matter the situation. They either are recruited for being complete assholes and/or abusive pricks - they wouldn't mind using force to control "the masses", or they become that, swallowed by the system. 

Not for a minute I believe that Billy kept any form of innocence or good character having been abused in youth , then spent what seems a lot of time inside some prison, where we know people learn how to become thugs. If they had included a line or two of how the place he was did actually have some sort of mental health service for rehabilitation, I don't buy "cool uncle Billy"

Not really liking the writing so far. Too many holes

 

[bilgistic]

Them having a carnival is where is further falls apart for me. They planned ahead to have rides, carnival food and games? That seems like a bridge too far. Where do they store all of the rides and food trucks when the carnival isn't on the other 364 days of the year? (Or is it 51 weeks?) It would take YEARS to build just the essentials of the underground city (where they admittedly don't have enough medical equipment), but they had to include a carnival? I don't know, man.

[Haleth]

5 hours ago, bilgistic said:

Them having a carnival is where is further falls apart for me. They planned ahead to have rides, carnival food and games? That seems like a bridge too far. Where do they store all of the rides and food trucks when the carnival isn't on the other 364 days of the year? (Or is it 51 weeks?) It would take YEARS to build just the essentials of the underground city (where they admittedly don't have enough medical equipment), but they had to include a carnival? I don't know, man.

I was just coming to say this!  Did they really bring carnival rides into the bunker?  Where are all the prizes coming from year to year?

[meep.meep]

Xavier's daughter kept repeating back to him that they "have a system" and was oddly not freaked out even though he wasn't there in the morning.  Could the notes we saw him leaving in the first episode relate to their "system?"

[Bobcatkitten]

I was never more happy to see someone shoot another human being than when Billy shot the uncle instead of the dog. Also, he was a great character - love him or hate him - will be a big loss for the remaining episodes. 

I mean yes the people were breathing the air on earth - for a few minutes. But that doesn't mean it's livable. and everything is dead so you can't grow food etc. I mean maybe you let people choose. 

[chaifan]

Yeah!  Jane's not an incompetent, immature overgrown teenager who somehow got into the secret service!  I commented in Ep 3 that I was hoping she was really the killer because having such an incompetent female agent was really bothering me.  So yeah!  

I loved the scene where she put her jacket on at the carnival and wrapped it around her, the look on her face of having to pretend to be Billy's girlfriend (and such an airhead) was just sheer disgust.  She really couldn't wait to kill him. 

OK, so we know the air is breathable up there.  But, I hate to keep harping on this, we knew that in the 2nd episode when Jeremy and Presley went up to the hangar.   I really hope they explain this, soon, and this isn't just some major plot hole, because it's really bugging me. 

Robinson Redmond/Sinatra said it was 3rd world country conditions, but I'm not sure what that means.  I mean, at this point 3rd world countries are "third world" more due to rampant corruption in their political systems, not a lack of habitable space or resources.  Things looked dead, but it was also winter.  Are we to assume the "extinction event" killed off all/most plant life and animals, along with people?   Otherwise, as long as the air is breathable, why couldn't people survive?

I'm not sure why they'd kill off 4 scientists.  Couldn't they send up just 2?  And why not just shoot them as they get off the elevator?  Why did Billy have to hide in the bushes in the snow?  

I can totally buy into bringing carnival equipment.  If people have to spend the rest of their lives down there, hell yeah, bring as much entertainment and diversion as you can.  

And I can also buy why you'd want to let people believe that topside isn't safe, and that there's -0- chance anyone's alive.  If all/most living things (plants/animals) have died, and nothing new can grow up there, then any remaining resources (food, clean water) is finite.  Presumably, Paradise is self sustaining, that they can produce water (deep wells?), grow food, keep the air clean, but only for so many people.  There's simply no way to share that with an unknown number of survivors, and still guarantee that you'd have a large enough population left in a few generations when Earth is safe again for populating.  So yeah, I think some people would keep this secret for their own comfort and well being, but there is a "greater good" argument to be made, too, if we want the human race to survive.

So I'm not convinced that Robinsons is 100% evil and self serving.  If she was only in this for herself, she could have built a bunker for 20 or 100 or 1,000 people, enough to keep her entertained and well for her lifetime, not for 100 years.  I think her motivation is to save the human race.  But damn, she's going to be as comfortable as possible while doing so.  (I've been noticing the artwork since it was brought up in an earlier thread.)  She also loves being in charge and holding all the power.  

I'm wondering if Cal's drinking was leading to an increased chance of loose lips, and he knew too much.  There's been an awful lot of discussion of how much Cal drank, so I'm calling Chekhov's Whiskey Bottle on this.  But I'd think if Robinson were behind this she'd make it look like a fake overdose like Billy, instead of bonking him on the head with a rock.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 9 by chaifan
Used wrong character name - corrected.

[SoMuchTV]

35 minutes ago, chaifan said:

OK, so we know the air is breathable up there.  But, I hate to keep harping on this, we knew that in the 2nd episode when Jeremy and Presley went up to the hangar.   I really hope they explain this, soon, and this isn't just some major plot hole, because it's really bugging me. 

I just posted about this on the previous episode thread, but my impression was that the hangar was at the underground level, and the planes had flown in through the massive tunnel. Did we see them going upstairs/taking an elevator? They may well have and I missed it. 

[SeanBug]

13 hours ago, Bobcatkitten said:

I was never more happy to see someone shoot another human being than when Billy shot the uncle instead of the dog. Also, he was a great character - love him or hate him - will be a big loss for the remaining episodes. 

I mean yes the people were breathing the air on earth - for a few minutes. But that doesn't mean it's livable. and everything is dead so you can't grow food etc. I mean maybe you let people choose. 

I ff'd thru the opening til I saw he was in prison, then went back as I realized it couldn't have been about the dog. 

Some have mentioned that Billy couldn't be a good person after his upbringing and time in juvenile detention, etc.  I think a lot of his behavior in the past was self preservation. I mean, he cared about the dog and killed the uncle to save it. He was put in bad situations and had to survive. Sinatra had him over a barrel, as he somehow had some of his past wiped clean to become an agent.  Killing those scientists was not great, but did she threaten Xavier and his kids?  That seemed to be his pressure point. 

I'm getting Silo vibes on this "we all have to live underground" plot. 

[chaifan]

11 hours ago, SoMuchTV said:

I just posted about this on the previous episode thread, but my impression was that the hangar was at the underground level, and the planes had flown in through the massive tunnel. Did we see them going upstairs/taking an elevator? They may well have and I missed it. 

I just replied to that comment.  🙂  The hangar/tunnel is at ground level.  It's what they show in the beginning of Ep 2, when Sinatra is flying all the scientists to the mountain.  I can't 100% remember if the kids went up an elevator, but I'm pretty sure yes.  Then they went through a big metal door (unsecured), flipped a few light switches, and they were in the hangar, where all the families were going through security.  It's all at ground level.  

It makes no sense to waste energy/resources to keep the air in that large of an unused space purified.  So if they're purifying the air, why not put the space to use and allow people to be up there.  You could put a whole amusement park in there.  Or, damn, how about some farm animals so they could have real cheese and meat!  😁

Sorry, I know there's a lot to handwave in this show, but for some reason this is my one sticking point.  

[Broderbits]

13 hours ago, chaifan said:

I'm not sure why they'd kill off 4 scientists. 

Because Sinatra, the Chairman of the Board, is clearly insane and that's what she decided. Maybe those scientists had started suspecting something and were sacrificed to keep everyone terrified and in line.

It didn't look to me like everything was dead from some "event", it just looked like normal winter; plus there were lights on in the distant buildings.

Wouldn't someone as rich as Sinatra have tried to clone her son? Or put him in some kind of stasis until a cure could be found.

[chaifan]

1 hour ago, Broderbits said:

It didn't look to me like everything was dead from some "event", it just looked like normal winter; plus there were lights on in the distant buildings.

I just rewatched that scene.  You're right - there is foliage (evergreens) all around that scene.  But I didn't see lights in the city, I think you may have been seeing snowfall.  

OK, so now I'm even more confused/intrigued...  what kind of disaster kills off people, leaves buildings standing, trees, grass, but makes above ground (supposedly) incapable of supporting human life for 100 years?  

[anniebird]

3 hours ago, chaifan said:

 

It makes no sense to waste energy/resources to keep the air in that large of an unused space purified.  So if they're purifying the air, why not put the space to use and allow people to be up there.  You could put a whole amusement park in there.  Or, damn, how about some farm animals so they could have real cheese and meat!  😁

 

Now I'm wondering where those eggs came from in the first episode.

[chaifan]

48 minutes ago, anniebird said:

Now I'm wondering where those eggs came from in the first episode.

Did we actually see eggs in the shell, or just an egg product?  If it's the latter, then most likely egg substitute stuff.  If the former, then...  yeah, that's a good question!  I don't think they've ever explicitly said the whole place is vegan, right?  It was just the comment about cheese, and I think there was also one about missing bacon.  It's possible for them to have a chicken farm down there.  

[Sandman]

On 2/4/2025 at 2:46 PM, Snazzy Daisy said:

Gabriela is playing Xavier like a fiddle. She is the true evil here. 😈

It feels like the central conflict could be between Gabriela and Sinatra, and everyone else is just a pawn in their game. I have no real in-story evidence to point to (ETA except maybe that each one told someone that she chose them for Paradise); mostly it’s a feeling that’s been growing since Gabriela’s introduction. 

I was not expecting Jane to be the “biggest m-f’er,” but they have been hitting that one note over and over about how innocent and non-threatening she is. Bye, Billy! Sorry your life sucked so hard. Also, I hope your boss figures it out. Robinson I seem to have the least patience for. 

Edited February 8 by Sandman
I see I’m not the only one to see competition.

[ShellsandCheese]

On 2/6/2025 at 7:30 PM, chaifan said:

 

Robinson said it was 3rd world country conditions, but I'm not sure what that means.  I mean, at this point 3rd world countries are "third world" more due to rampant corruption in their political systems, not a lack of habitable space or resources.  Things looked dead, but it was also winter.  Are we to assume the "extinction event" killed off all/most plant life and animals, along with people?   Otherwise, as long as the air is breathable, why couldn't people survive?

I'm not sure why they'd kill off 4 scientists.  Couldn't they send up just 2?  And why not just shoot them as they get off the elevator?  Why did Billy have to hide in the bushes in the snow?  

So I'm not convinced that Robinsons is 100% evil and self serving.  If she was only in this for herself, she could have built a bunker for 20 or 100 or 1,000 people, enough to keep her entertained and well for her lifetime, not for 100 years.  I think her motivation is to save the human race.  But damn, she's going to be as comfortable as possible while doing so.  (I've been noticing the artwork since it was brought up in an earlier thread.)  She also loves being in charge and holding all the power.  

I'm wondering if Cal's drinking was leading to an increased chance of loose lips, and he knew too much.  There's been an awful lot of discussion of how much Cal drank, so I'm calling Chekhov's Whiskey Bottle on this.  But I'd think if Robinson were behind this she'd make it look like a fake overdose like Billy, instead of bonking him on the head with a rock.  

 

Do you mean Sinatra? Robinson is the agent that was sleeping with Cal; she was most definitely not responsible for the underground community.

[Cementhead]

Aw, damn.  I really liked both the actor and character. 

I don't ever throw Lost comparisons around but this is the first show I have watched since Lost that is giving me that same vibe.  This is a compliment.  For now.  Have I just jinxed us and now a Smoke Monster shows up in episode 5?

[rejnel]

Curious about Billy's line that was something like "Your kids are my world. I'd do anything for them. I follow them everywhere to make sure nobody gets near them." Who would get near them? Before Cal's murder, wasn't this underground world purportedly perfectly safe?

Granted, I don't give the show my full attention every episode, so I may have missed something or a lot of things--

Editing to add: my money's on the president's son for the president's murder. 

Edited February 9 by rejnel
Adding one more thought--sorry!

[chaifan]

15 hours ago, ShellsandCheese said:

Do you mean Sinatra? Robinson is the agent that was sleeping with Cal; she was most definitely not responsible for the underground community.

oops, yes.  I meant to use her regular name - Redmond.  I just corrected it.  Thanks.

 

[txhorns79]

The covers of various 80s songs ending episodes reminds me so much of that season of Grey's Anatomy where I think they did the exact same thing, with at least some of the same cover songs.

On 2/7/2025 at 10:59 PM, Sandman said:

I was not expecting Jane to be the “biggest m-f’er,” but they have been hitting that one note over and over about how innocent and non-threatening she is.

The way things were going, I was surprised she didn't poison him while her hair was in pigtails and she was licking a giant lollipop.  I did appreciate Robinson's utter disgust with Jane's carnival outfit. 

[luna1122again]

As soon as Billy said to send the biggest MF-er to kill him, I knew it was gonna be teeny little Jane, but I was still devastated. I honestly think they made a big mistake killing him off, because the actor --Jon Beavers--is really fantastic. Maybe, this being a Dan Fogelman show, they'll find a way to have him still be a regular in flashbacks or something, like James Marsden also is. 

I had to pause the opening scenes with the dog and look up to make sure that poor kid didn't really shoot him. When I read he killed his uncle instead of his pooch, I was like "Ok, I can watch that just fine." Poor Billy. What a terrible life he had.