S05.E03: What Jesus Said

[Tara Ariano]

Margaret finds herself in a pickle due to her dealings with the late Arnold Rothstein when his widow starts snooping around his covert affairs. Meanwhile, Chalky wonders where his latest partnership is going; Nucky talks shop with a prominent businessman from Boston; Luciano and Siegel try to strike a deal with Narcisse in Harlem; and in 1884, a young Nucky works hard at the hotel and catches the eye of a girl who's vacationing with her parents.

[Avaleigh]

Nice, I'm really looking forward to seeing how this Margaret storyline shakes out. It's the only story where I feel like I don't have a clue and that it could go in any direction.

More of Joe Kennedy sounds fun too.

Am I wrong in thinking that Narcisse already had some heroin deal going on with Luciano? Wasn't that a source of contention with Luciano and AR at one point?

I'm even looking forward to the flashbacks.

[Neurochick]

It sure took Chalky long enough to rid himself of Pernsley Dunn 2.0.

[Primetimer]

While Nucky tries to woo a famous American figure, Chalky and Narcisse find themselves on the opposite ends of the home-invasion game.

Read the story

[AimingforYoko]

Am I wrong in thinking that Narcisse already had some heroin deal going on with Luciano? Wasn't that a source of contention with Luciano and AR at one point?

The deal was with Lucky's boss, Joe Masseria. Since Narcisse is a fictional character and we're almost up to Bumpy Johnson's time, I wonder how this is going to play out.

[editorgrrl]

Was #9, the almost-16-year-old farm kid looking for work, Margaret's son? Tommy Darmody? One of Eli's kids?

Edited September 22, 2014 by editorgrrl

[jordanpond]

Editorgrrl, I don't think they said who he was. 

 

How did Nucky meet a pre-teen Mabel in 1884, when she wasn't born until 1885?

[thuganomics85]

Well, as sad as I am that Arnold is gone, I'm glad we were able to meet Caroline Rothstein this season.  Yeah, she was about what I expected, and I can totally see how she was Arnold's wife.  Icy, being polite and sophisticated when unleashing threats, knowing full well Arnold had mistress, etc.  And, hey, it looks like she's also going to make me interested in Margaret again.  I like the idea that she is going after Margaret for those funds, so this is making Margaret having to ask Nucky for help.  I can't wait to see more of Nucky and Margaret together again.

 

Dr. Narcisse returns, and it was a rough one for him.  He basically laughs off Lucky's warnings/threats, and ends up having his top whorehouse get mowed down.  Might want to think of another strategy there, Doctor.

 

All the stuff with Chalky was intense, even though I figured it was going to end with him killing that guy.  He may have gone to a dark place, but I can't see Chalky being this brutal.  But, even if he took the nine dollars, what is he going to do now?  I can't see him having many allies.

 

Oh, Mickey Doyle.  Your hilariously dumb ass has returned.  I wonder what that deal was with the kid at the end.

 

Still really liking the flashbacks.  Between this and the Joe Kennedy stuff, they've done a good job at making me invested with Nucky again.

[alynch]

Wait a minute, is the show actually avoiding explicitly identifying Joe Kennedy by only referring to him by his last name? Who he is was so obvious that I haven't been paying attention to that. I can't imagine what purpose getting cute with the first name could possibly serve.

 

How did Nucky meet a pre-teen Mabel in 1884, when she wasn't born until 1885?

 

I figure there are two possibilities. The flashbacks in this episode appeared to be taking place an unspecified time after the prior two episodes. We got that montage of him establishing himself as a regular employee at the place. So the first possibility is that these scenes took place several years later, but that's kind of hard to believe since they've still got the same kid playing Young Nucky. The other much more likely possibility is that they screwed up and forgot (or just chose to shrug off) the birth year on Mabel's gravestone (don't think they've showed it since season 1).

[Brooklynista]

What was going b on with the murder of the woman in the hotel room flashbacks? Was she a prostitute?

It gave me vibes of the cover up that happened w Sen. Geary in The Godfather 2 when he killed the hooker in the brothel.

Edited September 22, 2014 by Brooklynista

[Pallas]

Wait a minute, is the show actually avoiding explicitly identifying Joe Kennedy by only referring to him by his last name?

 

Nope, Nucky called him "Joe" at least once and I believe he previously introduced himself as Joseph Kennedy.  He's beautifully cast physically, though his accent could use some work.  Sort of the opposite of the actor portraying Dabney Coleman portraying the Commodore: no look-alike, but a redoubtable sound-alike/act-alike.  

 

Was #9, the almost-16-year-old farm kid looking for work, Margaret's son? Tommy Darmody? One of Eli's kids?

 

Could be one of Eli's kids; too old to be Tommy (born in 1919) or Margaret's son, who presumably lives with her in Manhattan. But probably an unrelated random, just as Nucky was to the Commodore and Jimmy was to Nucky.  

[RealityGal]

I enjoyed this episode....

 

1.  Margaret - ugh, why can't she ever get caught in some gunfire.  There is enough of it going around, geez.  But I wonder how it will be between her and Sally, or how that will work?  Her character has always annoyed me and struck me as a total naggy, judgmental shrew.

 

2.  Widow Rothstien - I like her, hard as nails, and not falling for any of Margaret's sweet talk.  Margaret knows exactly how to get money, but just doesn't want to.

 

3. Narcassie - I can't believe he was that stupid, did he really think there wouldn't be any consequences for throwing out Lucky Luciano and Bugsy Segall?  Is he thinking that the FBI will protect him?  Nothing will make me happier than to see Chalky fully take him down.

 

4. Chalky - I wonder how well he knew that guy before they escaped?  I actually don't think that his actions, up to this point have made a future impossible.  I'm under the impression that record keeping back then was sub par at best.  So, he escaped the chain gang, but did they have a very good booking photo of him to make a wanted poster?  If so, how far will the poster get, I'm not sure if he was in jail on federal or state charges, but it seems like they escaped from somewhere in the south.  How far can wanted posters and fugitive information go for a state crime and a fugitive from state justice.  I mean, I suppose once a prisoner escapes state custody, it probably turns into a federal case, but still.  The women they robbed didn't know who they were, except to know that Chalky had a daughter named Maribel.  But my biggest question is...does Chalky even want to have a future?  He pretty much abandoned his family and I don't know that he will ever get through the guilt he has from killing his daughter.  I feel like Chalky may just want to kill Narcaisse and be done with everything else.

 

5. Joseph Kennedy - I like him too!  I can't figure what his game was with the soda vs. liquor thing.  I don't drink either, but I don't mind if anyone else does, so if I sense someone changing their drink order because they are doing so to make me feel more comfortable, I will insist that they have whatever drink they want.  He seemed totally fine with Nucky changing his order to a non liquor drink too, even though he seemed to know that Nucky drank, and wanted a drink.  So did he really think that Nucky shouldn't drink because of all the judgments of the Irish, or did he just want to see how far Nucky would go to make him feel like they were on the same page.  And I love the idea of a totally dry bootlegger!

Edited September 22, 2014 by RealityGal

[terrymct]

I enjoyed this episode....

 

1.  Margaret - ugh, why can't she ever get caught in some gunfire.  There is enough of it going around, geez.  But I wonder how it will be between her and Sally, or how that will work?  Her character has always annoyed me and struck me as a total naggy, judgmental shrew.

 

2.  Widow Rothstien - I like her, hard as nails, and not falling for any of Margaret's sweet talk.  Margaret knows exactly how to get money, but just doesn't want to.

 

3. Narcassie - I can't believe he was that stupid, did he really think there wouldn't be any consequences for throwing out Lucky Luciano and Bugsy Segall?  Is he thinking that the FBI will protect him?  Nothing will make me happier than to see Chalky fully take him down.

 

4. Chalky - I wonder how well he knew that guy before they escaped?  I actually don't think that his actions, up to this point have made a future impossible.  I'm under the impression that record keeping back then was sub par at best.  So, he escaped the chain gang, but did they have a very good booking photo of him to make a wanted poster?  

 

 

Margaret and Narcisse are my two least favorite current characters.   Margaret is sanctimonious and uninteresting and has been since she married Nucky.   Narcisse is too one-dimensionally sleazy.  I hope Lucky and friends are the end of that character.   I LOVE Mrs Rothstein and hope she dismantles Margaret.  I was very, very surprised, though, that Arnold didn't provide better for his wife.  He was such precise and detail driven man.  Yes, the Fed seized everything under his name, but he'd have anticipated that, you'd think.   Must be a little inconsistency to drive the plot.   

 

I'm confused by the Chalky story line.  He's one of my favorite characters.  In Atlantic City, he was crooked but did so to support and protect his community.  Heaven knows he loved his family, too.  I'm glad in this episode he seemed to find a bit of himself.   I don't understand why he was in jail, though.  Is that supposed to be a mystery or did I miss something?   I suspect his story arc is to put him back with Narcisse so Chalky can get revenge for Maybelle and the overall destruction of Chalky's life.

[Jackmerius]

Chalky's associate isn't named Buck - 'buck' is a slang term among black men like 'dude'. Originally the 'buck' term was used to describe the strong field hand during slavery. He's been listed as named 'Milton' in other sources.

[editorgrrl]

Was #9, the almost-16-year-old farm kid looking for work, Margaret's son? Tommy Darmody? One of Eli's kids?

Could be one of Eli's kids; too old to be Tommy (born in 1919) or Margaret's son, who presumably lives with her in Manhattan. But probably an unrelated random, just as Nucky was to the Commodore and Jimmy was to Nucky.

With only four episodes left, I doubt the kid's a rando—especially when Joe Kennedy showed that Nucky doesn't even know how old Margaret's kids are. Is Will Nucky's only legacy?

If the kid'd lie about being 18, he could be lying about having worked on a farm &/or about being almost 16.

Edited September 22, 2014 by editorgrrl

[Drogo]

If the kid'd lie about being 18, he could be lying about having worked on a farm &/or about being almost 16.

 

If it is Tommy, he was raised on a farm with the Sagorskys.  The kid really resembled Michael Pitt. 

[terrymct]

From the recap:  "Carolyn not-so-gently suggests Margaret get in touch with her ex-husband and find a way to return the $111,000 Margaret owes her."

 

This $111,000 was money that Margaret's boss was using from Rothstein's account to fund his own investment, right?  There's no way Margaret could have spent that much on dresses.

[Pallas]

With only four episodes left, I doubt the kid's a rando—especially when Joe Kennedy showed that Nucky doesn't even know how old Margaret's kids are. Is Will Nucky's only legacy?

If the kid'd lie about being 18, he could be lying about having worked on a farm &/or about being almost 16.

 

If it is Tommy, he was raised on a farm with the Sagorskys.  The kid really resembled Michael Pitt.

 

Both good points.  What he didn't look like, at all, is the kid who played Tommy -- or near young enough.  But it's been pointed out that Mabel's engraved birthdate has obviously eroded in the sands over the past four years.  And it makes dramatic sense to reintroduce Tommy into the narrative, with regard to both Nucky and Gillian, and as a nod to Richard.  The theme of the season seems to be Nucky's legacy, and both Jimmy and his son were deeply enmeshed in that.  As was the Commodore, Nucky's father-figure and Tommy's grandfather.  

[A Boston Gal]

"Does Maybelle know what you are???"

"She knew what I was."

 

Albert, I've missed you so much.  If this show doesn't end with at least a modicum of hope for your character's future, then there's no justice in this world. 

 

Tonights's episode reminded me how good the show can be. I was even engaged enough with Margaret's dealings with the Widow Rothstein (and it just hit me this second who that actress is...!! ) to be rooting for her. Can Margaret reconnect with Nucky, and get herself out of trouble? I actually care. A sharp, let's-see-what-I-can-do-about-this Margaret is infinitely preferable to a Margaret of the "it's in God's hands" variety.

 

And the flashbacks continue to be very well done. I wish we had had them in an earlier season; not necessarily the first one, but still, sooner than this. It's as if the showrunners only cared about revealing the details on Nucky's backstory now that it's all coming to an end.

Edited September 22, 2014 by A Boston Gal

[editorgrrl]

I've just read the Entertainment Weekly recap, and it reminded me of another question I had about this episode:

Any theories as to the sender of Nucky's mysterious letter with the return address "Miss Nellie Bly, the Pirate Sea, En Route to Cathay"? Boardwalk-philes will remember that in the season 2 episode "Two Boats and a Lifeguard," Nucky and Margaret play the board game "Round the World With Nellie Bly" with Teddy and a polio-stricken Emily. It's in this scene that Nucky asks Margaret's children to start calling him "Dad." Considering that the globe-trotting reporter died in 1922, it's unlikely she was writing to an Atlantic City gangster from beyond the grave. Think it might be a teenage Teddy or Emily trying to get in touch with their stepfather?

 

This theory would tie in with all the talk about Nucky's legacy.

 

On second thought—the letter's got to be from Gillian, right?

Edited September 22, 2014 by editorgrrl

[Pallas]

This $111,000 was money that Margaret's boss was using from Rothstein's account to fund his own investment, right?  There's no way Margaret could have spent that much on dresses.

 

Margaret's boss, Mr. Bennett, seems to have been ruined financially when he killed himself, and may also already have heard from Carolyn Rothstein's attorneys -- for Bennett, that might have been the real precipitate. The good widow's lawyers are now looking for any solvent party they can tie to the lawsuit; Miss Rowan's signature is on account documents: as Mrs. Thompson, she'll do.   

 

Did Margaret take the whole of the $110,000, while now cannily blaming her dead boss?  Or did Bennett, as Margaret said, orchestrate the absconding -- but Margaret take a cut in exchange for her signature?  I'm not sure she would have risked revealing her knowledge or her nature to her boss in that way.  Especially having already received five years' rent from the firm's prize, dead client, in exchange for inside information that benefited Rothstein at the expense of the other investors, including the firm and its principals.  

 

I think Margaret opted for prudence and so, as luck would have it, gained nothing from  the scheme that threatens her.  

[A Boston Gal]

editorgrrl, bingo! Yes, it has to be from Gillian, although the first idea about a call-back to a previous episode almost made me give the writers more credit than is due.

[Avaleigh]

I enjoyed most of the episode but felt very troubled by the Chalky scenes and pretty much hate that an episode spending so much time with his character would have it be under the circumstances of him participating in a home invasion of a mother and her teenaged daughter. I didn't understand his motivation at all to risk what he'd just escaped or worse just so that he could get caught up with this guy who seemed only to have the vaguest memories of the presence of a safe with cash in it. They know there's a depression going on, it's not like they were going into some house where the people were obviously wealthy, so why risk all of that in the hope that the situation stayed exactly the same as it had years ago? Chalky's situation is so different than it was years ago that I'm surprised he didn't at least voice the possibility to the guy that maybe these people were hit hard by the Crash like most everyone else has been. I also hated that the guy Milton implied that he had rape on his mind. I was glad that Chalky was going to intervene at that point but it was still unsettling all the same.

 

I loved seeing Margaret squirm with Carolyn Rothstein. I laughed too at her half assed attempt to act like she had no idea that she lived in one of his apartment buildings. In my mind I had Mrs. AR pegged as a totally different type so the character and actress were a welcome and pleasant surprise. Going by Margaret's reaction though I'm guessing that she and AR really did continue to have a platonic business relationship. I'm looking forward to more of this storyline and am curious to know if we'll ever see Teddy and Emily again and what their impressions are of Nucky, their mother, and that whole situation. 

 

It was fun to see Mickey Doyle again. In the first season who would have thought he'd outlive characters like Jimmy, Eddie, and AR?

 

Regarding the scene where the prostitutes of Narcisse are murdered--

I thought it was disturbing and the scene reminded me of a scene from this past season of American Horror Story where a character goes into a black hair salon and kills all but one of the nameless women who work there in addition to killing a male security figure. I feel like I might have felt more power from the scene if we'd maybe had a set up scene that allowed us to see a moment of how life would have been in that brothel and maybe briefly see something that would do a better job of driving home the point that Luciano & co didn't just send Narcisse a message to force a deal but that they did something incredibly unnecessary, wrong and evil that will likely destroy more than the lives of the victims.

[Neurochick]

I think the entire point of the Chalky scenes in the episode were to find out how he finally gets rid of Milton.  

 

Something was wrong with Milton, with the scar on his head and that he told Chalky he was in jail for killing his father because of "the games he ran on me," (I wonder if that implied sexual abuse).  

 

What bothered me about those scenes was that I knew Chalky was going eventually kill Milton, it was just a question of how long it was going to take.  Chalky made that mistake with Dunn and wasn't going to make it again.

 

I think the massacre at the brothel was supposed to be disturbing, but why couldn't they have blown Narcisse away?  The episode was great until he showed up, I was like, "Ugh, why is this guy still around?"  And he was stupid, I mean Luciano practically threatened him and Narcisse was like, "whatever."  Even I knew that was a bad idea.

Edited September 22, 2014 by Neurochick

[Avaleigh]

And he was stupid, I mean Luciano practically threatened him and Narcisse was like, "whatever."  Even I knew that was a bad idea.

Yeah, I was just like, okay, so you have a plan then, dude, right? Right? Nope, no plan, Narcisse just thinks he can stand his ground and everything is going to be okay. No extra security, the employees clearly haven't been warned about a potential threat, he doesn't attempt to buy himself some time, nor did I really understand why a deal with Masseria was something he was willing to accept but he wouldn't for Luciano. What did Narcisse really think was going to happen? 

 

The implication is that Chalky has been away from his family for nearly all of the seven year gap. If that's the case, I'm even more worried about his family and how they're doing emotionally and financially. So much is going to depend on the son since I find it hard to picture Lenore actually working. I can almost see Narcisse being manipulative enough to come to their aid financially. He took over every other area of Chalky's life, it wouldn't surprise me at all if that included acquiring the loyalty of Chalky's remaining family members. 

 

The guy Milton seemed disturbed and out of it like he wasn't completely in his right mind in addition to having a massive chip on his shoulder about seemingly everything. I know he wasn't supposed to be but he almost seemed like he was in the throes of some kind of drug induced paranoia. Just the way he freaked out over the phone ringing, ignorance aside, it was a strange reaction I thought. He wanted Chalky to scare the person on the other line as if that made any sort of sense. I mean, there's ignorance and there's flat out stupidity and I was feeling a bit overloaded on both. I noticed that Milton kept coming back to the fact that Chalky has clearly led a much more privileged life than Milton, but because Milton sees Chalky first as an on-the-run black convict like himself, he's confused as hell as to how Chalky could know the things he knows or why he instantly understands stuff that Milton just doesn't get. It was like the vestiges of Chalky's former affluence were freaking him out and he didn't know how to deal. Three or four times he'd ask Chalky how he knew about something. I thought that aspect of the scenes was interesting and it was clear to me that nobody in the jail where he ended up knew what kind of man he'd been. It was very different than the period Chalky spent in jail where he first came into contact with Purnsley and everyone in the jail knew Chalky, respected him, protected him, and let him do his own thing. 

 

One thing I did like about the home invasion scenes were how the mother and daughter kept holding back information and kept trying to use any little thing to their advantage. A lot of people in that same situation would be reduced to constant pleading and rivers of tears and even though their fear was evident through out, I thought they showed remarkable courage and fortitude particularly the daughter. 

 

And I love the idea of a totally dry bootlegger!

Joe Kennedy didn't drink much but he wasn't a complete teetotaler either. In a situation like that though having lunch or dinner in public with a man like Nucky Thompson, I can definitely see why this wouldn't have been one of the rare opportunities where he would decide to indulge a bit. 

 

I'm not sure what to make of the flashback scenes in this episode as far as the importance of the Mabel stuff. I will say though that seeing all the work Nucky did as a kid, it reminded me of how generous Nucky would be in the first two seasons when he was living in the hotel, just how generous he would be to the staff when it came to things like tipping and remembering their names. He remembers how it was to have to be in a job of service where he was constantly running his ass off to make that money (all while being sharply addressed as "boy!"), so I feel like the flashbacks are giving us some good insight into Nucky's character and why he is the way that he is, how the city of AC shaped him into the man he is today, etc. Young Nucky and those other errand boys would have bent over backwards to be of some small assistance to a man like season 1 Nucky and I think Nucky on some level, maybe not consciously, has tried to emulate the Commodore in that sense.

Edited September 22, 2014 by Avaleigh

[BigMamaThorton]

"Mabel?"

 

​"I'm afraid not…"

 

….and he smiles.

 

got to give the woman props for stealth. 

[ganesh]

Oh, Mickey Doyle.  Your hilariously dumb ass has returned.

 

I actually felt a little bad because he sent over good whisky to Nucky and Joe, which was the smart thing to do, since Nucky was schmoozing a VIP, but still gets yelled at. Then he poured the whisky bad in the bottle!

 

I was laughing when the little girl said, "it doesn't have to make sense, it's the bible." Oh, from the mouths of babes. 

 

And I love the idea of a totally dry bootlegger!

Joe Kennedy didn't drink much but he wasn't a complete teetotaler either. In a situation like that though having lunch or dinner in public with a man like Nucky Thompson, I can definitely see why this wouldn't have been one of the rare opportunities where he would decide to indulge a bit.

 

TV should make a rule: no one do the Kennedy accent. I can actually suspend my disbelief that you are playing a Kennedy even though you don't sound like a Kennedy. Really, it's nbd. The accent grates and takes me out of the scene. If you must, just use Generic New England accent.

 

Also, wtf ever, Joe. Having one drink with dinner doesn't = Irish drunk. He seemed to be just being difficult for the sake of being difficult. So you might have different goals than Nucky, but the bottom line is you want to make money. *eyeroll* Also, "building something for my family" or whatever, excuse me, I'm going to fuck the lead dancer at your show. Nucky wasn't buying it clearly, but was willing to play along. 

 

Dr N wasn't that stupid last season. I can't imagine what he was thinking. I figured he had a back up plan too. 

[cattykit]

I really expected the mother-daughter team to end up dead; this show is never shy about disposing of innocent victims.  But Chalky did the right thing, again. 

 

This episode felt really rushed.  How much more they could have done with a twelve-episode final season.

 

 

Dr N wasn't that stupid last season. I can't imagine what he was thinking. 

Success leading to arrogance leading to complacence.  If only he had been the one to suffer the consequences, instead of his employees.

 

I watched this and Ray Donovan back to back, so I'm all full of fake bad Boston accents.  Honestly, it's not that hard to do the accent well and almost no one ever does.

[ganesh]

To be fair, Kennedy accent is not Boston accent. The Boston accent isn't that hard to do, but the Kennedy one is nearly impossible for some reason. Just make it generic New England.

[MaryTylerMoore]

When the telephone was first introduced some said it was an instrument of the devil, some didn't understand it as we saw with Milton.

 

Buck has always been a derogatory term even among black folks. 

[txhorns79]

But Chalky did the right thing, again.

 

I would say it more like Chalky knew enough not to let the wrong thing get worse, not that he did ever really did the "right thing." I mean, in this situation, the right thing would be not to break into someone's home, threaten them and scare the crap out of them. 

 

 

I loved seeing Margaret squirm with Carolyn Rothstein.

 

I really enjoyed that scene.  I give Margaret some credit, she has the "naive, innocent," routine down cold.  It was nice to see Mrs. Rothstein cut through that in just a few minutes, and just play this wonderful little game of giving Margaret all the rope she could need to hang herself. 

[aliya]

 

I don't know that he will ever get through the guilt he has from killing his daughter.  I

What????  I must have missed something from last season. When did this happen and what was the context?  I thought he was talking as if his daughter was dead, but it could also have been taken as though he hadn't seen her in a while. Please fill me in.

 

The scenes with Chalky and the other guy were rough. I kept waiting for the other guy to rape one of the women, pretty much a death sentence for a black guy back then.  I was also surprised that Chalky let him go as far as he dead, and didn't take over when it became obvious the guy was unhinged. 

 

And who among us hasn't had to crawl back to an old friend/lover a la Margaret?  I had to smile at that scene, tho she's lucky Nucky isn't one to shoot first and ask questions later. You don't sneak into people's rooms (at least not people like Nucky) in the dark. : )

Edited September 23, 2014 by aliya

[Michell3]

- I love the look on Nucky's face when he wakes up, drunk, and sees Margaret.  He looks genuinely happy (and drunk)...genuinely happy (not smirky) is not an expression I've seen much on this guy's face.  I've seen 4 seasons with Buscemi in the central role, various movies and other TV roles, and still he manages to come up with an expression I feel I haven't seen before.  He is acting his little butt off! 

- I love Mrs. Rothstein calling Margaret out on her bullshit.  Thank GOD!  I don't know what happened, but I really used to like Margaret's character, now find her intensely irritating.  I don't think I can blame the actress, I just don't think she's been given much to do lately.  

- I have deep sympathy for Chalky.  I can't imagine what his goals in life might be (after he kills Narcisse, of course).  When he said "she remember what I was," I was crushed, I was so sad for him.  Man, no one does down in the the dumps like Michael K. Williams.  Anyone who hasn't seen the Wire should, just for him.  Omar comin'!

[Michell3]

 

What????  I must have missed something from last season. When did this happen and what was the context?  I thought he was talking as if his daughter was dead, but it could also have been taken as though he hadn't seen her in a while. Please fill me in.

 

He technically didn't kill her himself, Richard accidentally killed her when he was aiming for Narcisse.  She leaned across that table at which Narcisse and Chalky were sitting and just got in the way.  A really terrible accident.  

[EllaFunt]

Arnold Rothstein was a major gambler and was likely killed over a gambling debt. It's no wonder he didn't leave much for his wife.

Nellie Bly was famous for going undercover in an insane asylum. I immediately thought the letter was from Gillian.

[snippysnarker]

Ugh I just can't stand Margaret and her permanent morose bitchface. I surely hoped she would die into storyland untold. Guess not.

[NutMeg]

- I love the look on Nucky's face when he wakes up, drunk, and sees Margaret.  He looks genuinely happy (and drunk)...genuinely happy (not smirky) is not an expression I've seen much on this guy's face.  I've seen 4 seasons with Buscemi in the central role, various movies and other TV roles, and still he manages to come up with an expression I feel I haven't seen before.  He is acting his little butt off!

 

This, totally, I think it's the first time ever I've seen this expression on Nucky's face. I did a double take too, felt all warm and fuzzy, then crushed because he is soon to realize that Margaret has not come back out of love and longing... heartbreak awaiting :-(

 

Where is Nucky's club? Is it in New York? Did we see anything of Atlantic City this season apart from the flashbacks? 

[txhorns79]

Where is Nucky's club? Is it in New York? Did we see anything of Atlantic City this season apart from the flashbacks?

 

I think Nucky's club is the same from last season, no?  The one in Atlantic City that Chalky used to run? 

 

 

He technically didn't kill her himself, Richard accidentally killed her when he was aiming for Narcisse.

 

I think I would say it more like Chalky's business dealings helped get his daughter killed.  

 

And who among us hasn't had to crawl back to an old friend/lover a la Margaret?  I had to smile at that scene, tho she's lucky Nucky isn't one to shoot first and ask questions later. You don't sneak into people's rooms (at least not people like Nucky) in the dark. : )

 

I'm in total agreement there.  Margaret was there when a body was delivered to Nucky in a box, but she thinks the best idea in going to see him is to sit in his room in the dark and simply surprise him when he wakes up?  I liked the scene, but it seems pretty dumb on her part. 

Edited September 23, 2014 by txhorns79

[RealityGal]

 

I think I would say it more like Chalky's business dealings helped get his daughter killed.  

 

I'm not sure if thats how Chalky sees it.  I thought it was Chalky that set up the hit on Narcisse?  

[txhorns79]

I'm not sure if thats how Chalky sees it.  I thought it was Chalky that set up the hit on Narcisse?

 

I'm sure Chalky blames himself.  It's the natural thing to do.  For me personally, I don't blame Chalky.  I'm trying to remember how it happened last season.  Didn't both Narcisse and Chalky go to Nucky at different times to ask for his help to get rid of the other?  Wasn't that part of the tension of the scene with Richard, when it became clear that Nucky had sided with Chalky? 

[Brooklynista]

Where was Mr Ear in Pocket when Margaret was creeping into Nucky's room? It doesn't seem Margaret and Nucky have had too much contact so I doubt Pocket Ear would have been able to identify her.

[RealityGal]

Where was Mr Ear in Pocket when Margaret was creeping into Nucky's room? It doesn't seem Margaret and Nucky have had too much contact so I doubt Pocket Ear would have been able to identify her.

Pocket Ear may have had the day off.  I mean a man needs a day of rest to tend to his ears and what not.

[Neurochick]

I'm sure Chalky blames himself.  It's the natural thing to do.  For me personally, I don't blame Chalky.  I'm trying to remember how it happened last season.  Didn't both Narcisse and Chalky go to Nucky at different times to ask for his help to get rid of the other?  Wasn't that part of the tension of the scene with Richard, when it became clear that Nucky had sided with Chalky?

 

 

Chalky was so obsessed with Daughter that he wasn't paying attention to Narcisse.  Nucky was the one who ordered the hit on Narcisse; he asked Richard to do it because he, Nucky, agreed to tell the police "anonymously" where Jimmy was buried, sending Gillian to prison for killing the Jimmy look alike.

[alynch]

I'm sure Chalky blames himself.  It's the natural thing to do.  For me personally, I don't blame Chalky.  I'm trying to remember how it happened last season.  Didn't both Narcisse and Chalky go to Nucky at different times to ask for his help to get rid of the other?  Wasn't that part of the tension of the scene with Richard, when it became clear that Nucky had sided with Chalky? 

 

Richard was there at Nucky's say-so. He agreed to assassinate Narcisse in exchange for Nucky anonymously telling the authorities the location of Jimmy's body. So it was Nucky's plan, but Chalky was definitely in on it. That becomes clear because Chalky looked up at where Richard was hiding to give him the go-ahead signal shortly before Richard fired. Richard didn't fire immediately (either because his trigger hand was injured or he was reluctant to kill again (kind of played ambiguous there), and the delay gave Chalky's daughter enough time to move into the line of fire.

 

So the source of Chalky's guilt could be three-fold. He blames himself generally because if not for his dealings, his daughter would still be alive. He might also blame himself for going along with Nucky's plan in the first place, failing for foresee that Narcisse might have a trump card to play, like bringing out his daughter. And he almost certainly blames himself for taking his sweet time to finally give the Richard the go-ahead signal, wanting first to get as many verbal licks on Narcisse as possible.

Edited September 23, 2014 by alynch

[Avaleigh]

Even if Mr Ear in Pocket did have the night off he should have some kind of stand in since he can't be expected to be around 24/7. I could see Eddie having let her in since he knew her but this was just odd all around. Margaret will never forget about that Owen moment and she'd know better than to sneak up on Nucky in the dark in the middle of the night. His security seems to conveniently be non existent, and Nucky himself is just kind of too drunk to care that anyone can apparently come into his place if they feel like they need to get to him. In previous seasons especially the first three, I feel like Nucky would have been like 'uh, wtf are you doing here?" 

 

In the Inside the Episode, the showrunners were basically saying that Joe Kennedy was who Nucky wished he had turned out to be. Nucky looks at a man like that and it brings into sharp relief what his life could have been if only he'd made better choices. 

 

I can't believe that the only piece of jewelry that Carolyn could hold on to was a freebie that AR had picked up from that New Year's party. Even with his gambling debts you'd think he would have at least provided her with some sort of emergency pile of cash. Even Tony Soprano managed to do that for Carmela and AR seemed like a much more careful and meticulous character.

[RealityGal]

Even if Mr Ear in Pocket did have the night off he should have some kind of stand in since he can't be expected to be around 24/7. I could see Eddie having let her in since he knew her but this was just odd all around. Margaret will never forget about that Owen moment and she'd know better than to sneak up on Nucky in the dark in the middle of the night. His security seems to conveniently be non existent, and Nucky himself is just kind of too drunk to care that anyone can apparently come into his place if they feel like they need to get to him. In previous seasons especially the first three, I feel like Nucky would have been like 'uh, wtf are you doing here?" 

 

In the Inside the Episode, the showrunners were basically saying that Joe Kennedy was who Nucky wished he had turned out to be. Nucky looks at a man like that and it brings into sharp relief what his life could have been if only he'd made better choices. 

 

I can't believe that the only piece of jewelry that Carolyn could hold on to was a freebie that AR had picked up from that New Year's party. Even with his gambling debts you'd think he would have at least provided her with some sort of emergency pile of cash. Even Tony Soprano managed to do that for Carmela and AR seemed like a much more careful and meticulous character.

I agree, poor planning to give Pocket Ear the night off with no replacement.  Maybe scalp guy had the flu, or tooth puller came down with a case of food poisoning.

 

Makes total sense about Nucky wanting to be Joe Kennedy.  I wouldn't have picked that up from the episode alone, but it makes sense.

 

Mrs. AR seems very wiley to me.  I like her, but its possible that she is sitting on an emergency pile of cash and wants the cash that was in that account.  Although, I've heard it said that sometimes gamblers don't really think about the long term, or the eventuality that something bad could happen, but I agree, AR seemed much more contemplative.  

Edited September 23, 2014 by RealityGal

[ganesh]

I think Nucky's club is the same from last season, no?  The one in Atlantic City that Chalky used to run?

 

It's definitely the same club. It looks like they redid the layout, but the office is the same. 

 

Makes total sense about Nucky wanting to be Joe Kennedy.  I wouldn't have picked that up from the episode alone, but it makes sense.

 

I didn't see that on the show either. So that didn't happen as far as I'm concerned. TPTBs can say all they want to say, but I'm one of those people who take what's on the show and that's it. I'd actually would rather not hear what TPTBs have to say until the series wraps. This may come to light on the show eventually.

 

I don't think it's that relevant anyway. Nucky is positioning himself for when repeal happens. That enough to keep my interest. He's banking on repeal, which we know happens, but he doesn't, so it's a risk. 

 

I don't think Chalky is at fault for his daughter dying either. She's been shown to flirt with the criminal world from early on when Chalky had the small club. She was aware of what he did. 

[alynch]

Regarding Mickey, if the premise of Nucky's arc this season is that he's been weakened by the Depression and now needs some capital investment in order to set up his next operation, doesn't it seem kind of strange he hasn't killed Mickey yet? I mean I have a pretty hard time believing that life insurance business won't receive any payoff prior to the show ending, since it's been around since the first season and they made a point of reintroducing it last year.

[buttercupia]

Nucky didn't hold those policies. that was Rothstein.

I'm curious what kind of game Margaret is on here.  Loved how genuinely happy Nucky seemed to  be to see her.  She seemed happy too.

Chalky definitely feels responsible for what happened to Maybelle, even if he isn't really.  If he hadn't arranged to kill Narcisse that way, she'd still be alive.

Interesting that Nucky's wife was Mabel and Chalky's daughter was Maybelle.

[alynch]

Nucky didn't hold those policies. that was Rothstein.

 

Rothstein sold the policy to Nucky last season.