Chit-Chat: The Feels

[Yeah No]

1 hour ago, Soapy Goddess said:

What irritates me the most is that PT was all about inclusivity until this thread appeared...essentially ignoring the right. IOW, how can PT and the majority on this thread be all inclusive for everything and everyone except those that have a different POV. We're not all monsters or terrible people who are misinformed. We simple see things in a different way. 

And while it's definitely not the left way, we still live in a world of differing opinions where we should be able to express our feelings. And no, I'm not going to be the lone ranger to create a separate thread as previously suggested because it's not the same as being sanctioned by PT. Because if PT truly cared about total inclusivity, it would have already existed. Obvious oversight.

I can understand how you feel to some extent, but I have to remind you that a chat board is not a democracy and is subject to the opinions of its owners. If they don't want to start a thread that's their prerogative and I really have no justification to complain about it. If a thread bothers me and I don't feel welcome there I am welcome to tune it out but I really have no justification to object to it on the grounds of it being "unfair". Chat boards are not required to be fair or inclusive of everyone. I found that out way back in the '90s when I first belonged to groups like this. It is what it is.

Also, I used to own and moderate one on YahooGroups a million years ago and if I didn't want a thread happening I had the right to remove it or tell people it was closed to further comment. If I thought someone was too disruptive and many people wanted them out I had the right to remove them too. Board owners and moderators don't have to feel pressured to be 100% fair and democratic in their decisions, even if they try to be on most things. Even though we discuss democracy and believe it it in government, it still isn't a requirement in a place like this. And it doesn't mean they consider you a "monster" if they don't create a safe space for you either. You do have some control over how safe a space is for you.

That said, when I did own and moderate a board I found out that no matter how fair or inclusive you try to be there are always some people that don't feel you are being fair and inclusive of them for any number of reasons. And if you try to be fair to them others will come out to object. So when all is said and done you find out that you can't please everyone or even at times anyone but yourself even if you try.

Also, no one is preventing you from expressing your opinions here. If you don't feel comfortable doing so because your opinions are questioned a lot and are in the minority I can understand that, but still no one is preventing you from expressing them.

Quote

Just remember, not all of us agree with ALL of Trump's policies. A simple analogy would be a restaurant I've always frequented. I don't have to enjoy everything on the menu in order to like the atmosphere. 

OK, so if that's the case maybe talking about those things you don't like or agree with about Trump here might lessen the negative reaction to you and thus make you feel less opposed. One of the things Democrats hate about Trump supporters is that many of them seem to blindly follow him no matter what he says or does or keep their mouths shut about it if they disagree with any of it. If you're in a room with a lot of people that disagree with you on a lot of stuff maybe finding some common ground with them first might help. And it also helps to discuss your opinions rationally and with facts and not react as if attacked when people are only disagreeing with you and not actually attacking you. If you can't hack that situation maybe this isn't the thread for you, but I personally would find it regrettable if you left it.

Edited 9 hours ago by Yeah No

[Soapy Goddess]

54 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

I can understand how you feel to some extent, but I have to remind you that a chat board is not a democracy and is subject to the opinions of its owners. If they don't want to start a thread that's their prerogative and I really have no justification to complain about it. If a thread bothers me and I don't feel welcome there I am welcome to tune it out but I really have no justification to object to it on the grounds of it being "unfair". Chat boards are not required to be fair or inclusive of everyone. I found that out way back in the '90s when I first belonged to groups like this. It is what it is.

I didn't say anything about PT being "unfair". I simply stated that a chat board who previously pulled benign posts because they were not deemed inclusive, now decides it's okay to become biased. Don't you see the hypocrisy in that? IOW, they shouldn't demand inclusivity in all threads but this one. I, too, have moderated other forums, but we were fair & balanced by enforcing the rules uniformly in ALL threads.

 

54 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

And it doesn't mean they consider you a "monster" if they don't create a safe space for you either. Also, no one is preventing you from expressing your opinions here.

I'm not looking for a "safe space" per se...and have expresses my opinions numerous times. That is not an issue for me. I'm sorry you missed my point about equality...that both sides deserve respect with a sanctioned thread.

 

54 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

One of the things Democrats hate about Trump supporters is that many of them seem to blindly follow him no matter what he says or does or keep their mouths shut about it if they disagree with any of it. If you're in a room with a lot of people that disagree with you on a lot of stuff maybe finding some common ground with them first might help. And it also helps to discuss your opinions rationally and with facts and not react as if attacked when people are only disagreeing with you and not actually attacking you. If you can't hack that situation maybe this isn't the thread for you, but I personally would find it regrettable if you left it.

Speaking for myself, I don't "follow him blindly". He's doing exactly what he promised to do such as closing the border for the undocumented...which is one of the big reasons he won. As you know, at first I did discuss my opinions rationally, and you saw what the reaction was. We talked about this privately a couple of times. Meanwhile, I took a breather to attend to family issues, and maybe it was a good thing because things appear to be down to a low roar. 

Edited 9 hours ago by Soapy Goddess

[anony.miss]

1 hour ago, Soapy Goddess said:

 Don't you see the hypocrisy in that?

I'm not seeing the value in repeatedly accusing the site and the mods of hypocrisy, negativity, non-inclusivity, etc, just because this forum exists.  Questioning the validity of this space, over and over again, seems unproductive to me,  especially since so many people here are clearly engaging with each other in ways that are meaningful to them.  JMO.

Edited 8 hours ago by anony.miss

[Dimity]

Agitating to close this thread won't make the concern and dislike over Trump and his policies go away. At least for now anyway he hasn't managed to shut down the right to disagree with him.

[Annber03]

5 hours ago, Soapy Goddess said:

We're not all monsters or terrible people who are misinformed. We simple see things in a different way. 

Except when people say things that are blatantly not true and not based in anything resembling fact, then yes, they are indeed misinformed. People don't, and shouldn't, get to make up their own nonsense and pass it off as fact and expect to not get pushback on it. 

And there's a HUGE difference between seeing things in a different way and supporting policies that actively put people's lives in danger and strip them of basic civil and human rights. The former I can work with, the latter, not so much. Anyone supporting the current treatment of immigrants, or transgender people, or the efforts to take away women's ability to control their bodies, or stomping over every single one of our Constitutional norms and policies and ways of doing things, or any of the other batshit insane stuff Trump and his party have been doing over the past two weeks...that's not "seeing things in a different way", that's just being flat out cruel, or supporting those who want to be cruel.

So no, I am not going to respect that, or shrug that off as a simple difference of opinion. 

[ginger90]

12 hours ago, Bookworm 1979 said:

I think a lot of people were horrified when Trump "won" the election, so this was created so everyone could freak out together and talk about why this was upsetting to them, aka "the feels". That's my interpretation, so take it with a grain of salt.

This thread was created in September.

[Dimity]

5 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

This thread was created in September.

That's true but it wasn't activated until the election. And the mods have made it crystal clear that this is a place where no gloating is allowed. Trump supporters are free to participate as long as they remember that. I am going to assume had the election gone differently this would have been true for Harris supporters as well. 

[bluegirl147]

2 hours ago, anony.miss said:

I'm not seeing the value in repeatedly accusing the site and the mods of hypocrisy, negativity, non-inclusivity, etc, just because this forum exists.  Questioning the validity of this space, over and over again, seems unproductive to me,  especially since so many people here are clearly engaging with each other in ways that are meaningful to them.  JMO.

That is the great thing about the internet.  You can always find a place that aligns with what you believe.

1 hour ago, Dimity said:

Agitating to close this thread won't make the concern and dislike over Trump and his policies go away. At least for now anyway he hasn't managed to shut down the right to disagree with him.

Give him time.  Between Musk and Zuckerberg he is super friendly with the two people who control a massive amount of social media. Not to mention Bezos owning the Washington Post.

[Edina]

God I hope yesterday was a turning point for the practically brain dead democrats 

Senator Schatz has put a blanket hold on all state department nominees and Schumer and Jeffries are working on legislation to stop the unlawful meddling in the treasury department’s payment system (lotta good that’ll do since they no have no majority in either house)

I think it’s more effective for the dems to be the party of no. The house republicans will be unable to pass any legislation (if they even want to) including a budget next month without the dems.  Let they squirm and make their voters happy

I returned on Sunday after two weeks out of the country. I went back and read some of the posts here. There was one about people feeling despondent. If anything please don’t. That’s what MAGA’s counting on. 
I’m angry to say the least. The democrats better get their shit together and come up with a plan because it’s going to pain me not to vote in 2026 but I have to have something to vote for. I’m sick of Pelosi and Schumer running the party because they haven’t been helpful or forward thinking (Schumer may have been the worst democratic majority leader ever)

And dear democrats: stop asking me for money. I’ve blocked every text message and I’m not sending any candidate one penny ever again. Learn how to play by the MAGA rules or risk being out in the cold for a very long time 

[Yeah No]

4 hours ago, Soapy Goddess said:

I didn't say anything about PT being "unfair". I simply stated that a chat board who previously pulled benign posts because they were not deemed inclusive, now decides it's okay to become biased. Don't you see the hypocrisy in that? IOW, they shouldn't demand inclusivity in all threads but this one. I, too, have moderated other forums, but we were fair & balanced by enforcing the rules uniformly in ALL threads.

I don't see what is biased or non-inclusive about this thread. It isn't titled "The Feels only for Democrats to Carp about Trump and Republicans and no one else".  In fact, if you look at the first page it says it's for anyone to express their feelings on politics and makes a special effort to say that all feelings are valid and should be respected here. I think that's pretty darned inclusive and I dare say I don't think you'd get the same inclusivity and tolerance on a thread that was run by and made up of MAGA and Trump supporters. You'd likely be ridden out on a rail if you were a Democrat expecting to co-exist peacefully and with respect from anyone including the moderator.

Aside from a few rare cases where people have not respected opposing opinions here I think most of the discourse has been very respectful. And you know I haven't always thought every response was respectful here. But never have I felt that the moderator was being biased or non-inclusive in removing posts in this thread. Even I have had posts removed. If you need clarification on why a post was removed you can always ask for it. Often it's not for the reason you think.

4 hours ago, Soapy Goddess said:

I'm not looking for a "safe space" per se...and have expresses my opinions numerous times. That is not an issue for me. I'm sorry you missed my point about equality...that both sides deserve respect with a sanctioned thread.

And I think both sides DO get equal respect here by the board. I have posted some unpopular things here myself but never felt I was being treated with less respect by management because of it. When things have been removed there were other reasons for it, some I may not agree with, but in general I never felt treated unequally. Many other posts are removed on the board in general that you may never know about. You're not being singled out, trust me.

4 hours ago, Soapy Goddess said:

Speaking for myself, I don't "follow him blindly". He's doing exactly what he promised to do such as closing the border for the undocumented...which is one of the big reasons he won. As you know, at first I did discuss my opinions rationally, and you saw what the reaction was. We talked about this privately a couple of times. Meanwhile, I took a breather to attend to family issues, and maybe it was a good thing because things appear to be down to a low roar. 

Fine, but you haven't enumerated on those things you don't agree with Trump about here that I can recall and that might go a long way toward posters here seeing you as not just another blind supporter. A lot of people here are genuinely curious about this here including me. At least if you voice those things people won't be so inclined to disagree with them. You can always intersperse that with what you like about what he's doing. But if you're not up to hearing disagreement with your opinions maybe it's not for you to voice them here. I have had to learn what is "safe" for me to disclose and what is not here myself the hard way. If you don't want to hear disagreement, either don't post something you know a lot of people will react to with disagreement or find a way to express it that doesn't provoke a strong reaction. Again, I have had to learn that here myself, and not just in this thread.

 

[Yeah No]

1 hour ago, Annber03 said:

Except when people say things that are blatantly not true and not based in anything resembling fact, then yes, they are indeed misinformed. People don't, and shouldn't, get to make up their own nonsense and pass it off as fact and expect to not get pushback on it. 

And there's a HUGE difference between seeing things in a different way and supporting policies that actively put people's lives in danger and strip them of basic civil and human rights. The former I can work with, the latter, not so much. Anyone supporting the current treatment of immigrants, or transgender people, or the efforts to take away women's ability to control their bodies, or stomping over every single one of our Constitutional norms and policies and ways of doing things, or any of the other batshit insane stuff Trump and his party have been doing over the past two weeks...that's not "seeing things in a different way", that's just being flat out cruel, or supporting those who want to be cruel.

So no, I am not going to respect that, or shrug that off as a simple difference of opinion. 

I agree with you. I think stating how you don't respect an opinion can be done WITH respect for the person stating it just the way you're doing right now. The difference is focusing on the opinion itself and not the person. That's a hard distinction to make in practice but one that can and should be mastered on a board where conflicting opinions are shared if there is any hope of it not devolving into a flame war. Of course the person on the receiving end might take it personally anyway but you can't be held responsible for that.

I personally think most Trump supporters and Republicans don't think they're supporting stripping anyone of their rights. They may actually disagree with and don't support Trump and his MAGA crew about that stuff but they don't see it as the horrible offense that most of us do here or just don't care that much about it. Or they're just tuning it out and focusing on what they do like. That's what I think. Of course I don't agree with that either.

[bluegirl147]

I have a FB friend who has been posting things about what Trump and Musk have been doing.  She isn't very political but she is outraged about what is going on. She has a FB friend who has been responding with comments that sound exactly like Fox News talking points. She is only seeing headlines like Trump and Musk are saving you money.  It's hard for people to know the truth when the events are being presented in such a skewed way.

[annzeepark914]

Fox "News" and Rush Limbaugh have done a great deal of harm to the US. Sneering, sarcasm, promoting conspiracies, etc., instead of sharing real, straightforward news with their audience, have created a warped attitude among these folks. 

[peacheslatour]

9 minutes ago, annzeepark914 said:

Fox "News" and Rush Limbaugh have done a great deal of harm to the US. Sneering, sarcasm, promoting conspiracies, etc., instead of sharing real, straightforward news with their audience, have created a warped attitude among these folks. 

Talk about warped, here is Rush talking about consent. From The Guardian.

"The left will promote and understand and tolerate anything, as long as there is one element. Do you know what it is? Consent," Mr Limbaugh said.

"If there is consent on both or all three or all four, however many are involved in the sex act, it's perfectly fine – whatever it is. But if the left ever senses and smells that there's no consent in part of the equation then here come the rape police.

“Consent is the magic key to the left."

[bluegirl147]

[Spartan Girl]

5 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

Leopards are having an all-you-can-eat banquet.

[partofme]

18 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

They got what they voted for. 

[bluegirl147]

15 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Leopards are having an all-you-can-eat banquet.

 

2 minutes ago, partofme said:

They got what they voted for. 

It's so cute they thought their white skin would save them.

[Milk-Eyed Mender]

Can confirm, Governor, can confirm.

[Cementhead]

54 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

“The government you elect is the government you deserve.”

― Thomas Jefferson

[DrSpaceman73]

In regard to the election and discussion about disagreements, and I'm not just referring to this thread, the era with trump of open discussion and 'Respectfully disagreeing ' is over.  

Trump insults,  demeans, disrespects and bullies his opponents continuously, repeatedly and as a way of daily discourse and functioning. 

Expecting to defend him and asking others to ignore that just is not going to happen anymore. 

We are beyond the  polite disagreement and 'oh I just have a different view' stage. 

We are on the pick and side and be ready to fight tooth and nail stage before he completely ruins and takes over the country. 

We are no longer picking between two views of which side is better to run the country. 

We are at the point of one side is seizing control illegally and the other side better respond and stop it before we are a dictatorship. 

 

[kittykat]

1 hour ago, Spartan Girl said:

Leopards are having an all-you-can-eat banquet.

It's a straight up Bacchanal!  Gorge my fellow kitties, GORGE!

I'm all fairness I shouldn't be laughing over women losing their jobs for unfair reasons but we tried to warn them.

[Spartan Girl]

Honestly, I just want the leopards to eat Elon Musk now.

50 minutes ago, Milk-Eyed Mender said:

Can confirm, Governor, can confirm.

Every day I’m reminded that we could have had him and Kamala. Every. Day.

[partofme]

3 minutes ago, kittykat said:

I'm all fairness I shouldn't be laughing over women losing their jobs for unfair reasons but we tried to warn them.

On a personal note it pisses me off because I am looking for work and it was already hard enough before Trump laid all these people off, some of whom are Democrats and don’t deserve this, it’s just more competition for me in an already crowded job market.  

[Notabug]

Quote

  8 hours ago, Soapy Goddess said:

Speaking for myself, I don't "follow him blindly". He's doing exactly what he promised to do such as closing the border for the undocumented...which is one of the big reasons he won

So, even if his border policies include things like massive tariffs, dumping undocumented people in other countries after arresting them and putting them on a plane without proper ventilation while bound hand and foot; are inherently cruel, the end justifies the means for you and for other Trump supporters?  Putting Elon Musk in charge of 'government efficiency' and then telling anyone who attended a DEI seminar as recommended during the last administration that they may no longer do their job and taking away their access to their work computers, etc is ok with you?  Outright stating that essentially everyone working for the federal government currently specifically holds a grudge against the president and must be fired and replaced by Trump supporters regardless of work history, qualifications or past performance is not a problem?

I, too, think that the previous administrations' policies on undocumented immigrants were not working and that the government could be run more efficiently.  But I cannot support the cruel treatment, insistence on loyalty to one person above all else including the actual nation or allowing a non-qualified billionaire access to financial records that must be kept secure from outside interference.  The end will NEVER justify the means for me if the means are immoral, illegal and corrupt.

Edited 1 hour ago by Notabug

[annzeepark914]

Just now, Spartan Girl said:

Every day I’m reminded that we could have had him and Kamala. Every. Day.

She wasn't my choice, but damn...I sure voted for her because I wanted a sane, smart, diplomatic, wise & steady president. We didn't have the luxury of sitting at home, holding our noses, saying we just couldn't bring ourselves to vote for someone we didn't approve of. Now, to all who couldn't bring themselves to vote for KH? Thanks a heap for the dangerous hot mess that's upon us, only two weeks after inauguration day. This is on you 🤬

[peacheslatour]

35 minutes ago, Cementhead said:

“The government you elect is the government you deserve.”

― Thomas Jefferson

I didn't vote for this and I sure as fuck didn't vote for the South African Menace. Nobody did.

[Eri]

1 hour ago, bluegirl147 said:

It's so cute they thought their white skin would save them.

They're just telling on themselves. If they bothered to think beyond their prejudices instead of vilifying another acronym in this ridiculous culture war, they'd have realised that DEI initiatives overwhelmingly help women more than POC ever have.

Statistics show that white women have been the biggest beneficiaries of Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) initiatives, with significant gains in leadership roles. According to recent data, while DEI programs aim to support marginalized groups, the benefits have been unevenly distributed, with white women experiencing the most upward mobility. 

Latest McKinsey study as of Sept 2024:  https://www.mckinsey.com/featured-insights/diversity-and-inclusion/women-in-the-workplace

"For every 100 men promoted to manager, 89 White women were promoted in 2024."

Even Forbes has reported that white women hold nearly 19% of all C-suite positions, while racial and ethnic minority women only hold 4%. Overall, white women have benefited disproportionally from corporate DEI efforts.

Pew Research implies Republican (women) seem to think so too:

Oops! 🤷‍♀️

Edited 1 hour ago by Eri

[Cementhead]

1 minute ago, peacheslatour said:

I didn't vote for this and I sure as fuck didn't vote for the South African Menace. Nobody did.

Oh, I know.  I was directing the quote to the "dozens of female Republican officials" that were being referred to in the comment.

[peacheslatour]

3 minutes ago, Cementhead said:

Oh, I know.  I was directing the quote to the "dozens of female Republican officials" that were being referred to in the comment.

I know, I'm just feeling grumpy today, lol.

[PRgal]

Was it here that someone posted that the current situation is like the part in The Lion King when Simba is banished from the Pridelands?  Or was it on another board/social media outlet?  You guys need Simba back, but it seems that he's too busy singing Hakuna Matata with Timon and Pumbaa :( 

[Cementhead]

1 minute ago, peacheslatour said:

I know, I'm just feeling grumpy today, lol.

As a Canadian who really resents having to start my day thinking & talking about Trump and ending my day thinking & talking about Trump, I get it.  I'm exhausted. 

[bluegirl147]

12 minutes ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

 

We are no longer picking between two views of which side is better to run the country. 

We are at the point of one side is seizing control illegally and the other side better respond and stop it before we are a dictatorship. 

 

Yes.  The two parties aren't just disagreeing on policy anymore. One party wants democracy and the other party does not.

13 minutes ago, kittykat said:

 

I'm all fairness I shouldn't be laughing over women losing their jobs for unfair reasons but we tried to warn them.

I don't feel sorry for them.  They would have been fine with people of color losing their jobs.

30 minutes ago, partofme said:

On a personal note it pisses me off because I am looking for work and it was already hard enough before Trump laid all these people off, some of whom are Democrats and don’t deserve this, it’s just more competition for me in an already crowded job market.  

And this is an unfortunate result of all the ridding of federal employees.  They are now part of the pool of people looking for work. 

 

10 minutes ago, Cementhead said:

As a Canadian who really resents having to start my day thinking & talking about Trump and ending my day thinking & talking about Trump, I get it.  I'm exhausted. 

As an American I hate it too.  It's only when Trump is president that every news alert is about him. Every morning I wake up and think what the fuck did he do now. I cannot not imagine what it's like for people of the groups he has targeted.

[Bookworm 1979]

5 hours ago, ginger90 said:

This thread was created in September.

Sorry, I didn't start reading it until after Trump won the election. I didn't realize it was here before then!

[tres bien]

Every time a reporter would interview a Trump supporter during the campaign it was the same thing. “I don’t like him but I like his policies”. Never did I see a reporter ask what policies 

So I’m guessing those people are fine with his policies and were expecting what’s he done for the past two weeks because nothing he’s done or has Musk doing affects them or their family, friends, neighbors or coworkers. They’re all somehow immune.

And taking over the treasury department’s payments or contemplating how to shut down the department of education for example will never impact your lives because you and yours don’t receive Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid have no children or know anyone who’s children attend public school or receive any benefits from the federal government 

 

 

Edited 15 minutes ago by tres bien

[peacheslatour]

5 minutes ago, tres bien said:

Every time a reporter would interview a Trump supporter during the campaign it was the same thing. “I don’t like him but I like his policies”. Never did I see a reporter ask what policies 

So I’m guessing those people are fine with his policies and were expecting what’s he done for the past two weeks because nothing he’s done or has Musk doing affects them or their family, friends, neighbors or coworkers. They’re all somehow immune.

And taking over the treasury department’s payments or contemplating how to shut down the department of education for example will never impact your lives because you and yours don’t receive Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid have no children or know anyone who’s children attend public school or receive any benefits from the federal government 

 

 

I don't know. I've been hearing an awful lot about people whose jobs in government have had their offers rescinded, about what is Uncle Jed gonna do without his Medicaid for his 'beetus and Latino people being suddenly terrified to send their children to school. True, they don't care about education though.

[bluegirl147]

5 minutes ago, tres bien said:

Every time a reporter would interview a Trump supporter during the campaign it was the same thing. “I don’t like him but I like his policies”. Never did I see a reporter ask what policies 

 

 

 

The only actual policy he had/'has is zero immigration.  And he wants to send the immigrants here away as well.

Everything else he talked about during the campaign was slogans and concepts of plans. So yeah it would have been nice if the media had asked Trump supporters to explain what policies they supported.

Vance was in East Palestine OH yesterday telling residents there needs to be more regulations so something like that never happens again.  Guess he wasn't on the call when Musk said all  regulations need to be dismantled.

[tessaray]

The first post is from Nov 5th. 

I'm not sure if it's still the case but back in the day mods created topics from older, existing posts (some created for just that purpose). They did this because the forum software wouldn't let you move an existing post into a newer topic created after that post. 

It doesn't mean this topic wasn't just sitting around unused until it was needed. Just that there might be an alternative explanation for the dates. 🙂