S01.E04: The Rabbit and The Hawk

[gibasi]

17 hours ago, DearEvette said:

 

I still think it is the least interesting part of the show mainly because they haven't given me any reason to care about her daughter.  They only told us she died do to opiod dependence and that Matty blames the firm. There are so many holes there since opiod use and abuse is nation wide and has so many tentacles, reducing blame to one law firm feels non-sensical and simplistic. I think if the her daughter was more a victim of something like the woman in this episode's case where she died from something a local company caused and the firm helped cover it up or did the Texas Two-Step shenanigans because a legal feint like that is in the hands of the lawyers and isn't a behemoth like the opiod epidemic where many are at fault, it would feel more believable to me

Yes!

 

10 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I will say that it was the twist that kept me coming back after the pilot. But it is a premise that really cannot sustain itself for very long. It doesn't make sense as presented that Madeline Kingston doesn't hire an actual IT person rather than her 13 year-old grandson. Even putting aside the cost to Alfie's emotional and scholastic well-being, the simple fact is there are professionals who can do the job better. She's rich enough to have a driver and to rent a front apartment in Queens.  

I assume they will keep the premise going for multiple seasons, at least 3. One point of comparison is the show "Suits," which has an equally untenable premise: a partner at a high-powered NYC firm that ONLY hires Harvard Law grads decides to hire a college dropout with a photographic memory and have him fake being a lawyer. I think the show ran for 8 seasons, about 5 of which had them more less keeping it secret that the associate never got a law degree. 

I agree. And since I can't get past the basic premise I am going to bow out. It's apt you compare it to Suits. I bowed out of that fairly early too.

[chessiegal]

Did anyone else notice that the blue glass bunny the widower gave Matty had a chipped ear? The others they showed didn't.

[peachmangosteen]

13 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Any chance they’ll have Mattie let go of her vendetta and realize she’s finding a new life working again?🤞
Maybe this episode’s argument was a precursor to that eventuality?

If they want the show to continue for more than 1 or maybe 2 seasons, and I assume they do, then yes that part of the story will have to end.

51 minutes ago, chessiegal said:

Did anyone else notice that the blue glass bunny the widower gave Matty had a chipped ear? The others they showed didn't.

I did. They made a point of showing it, too. Not sure what that's about.

Edited November 4 by peachmangosteen

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, chessiegal said:

Did anyone else notice that the blue glass bunny the widower gave Matty had a chipped ear? The others they showed didn't.

36 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

I did. They made a point of showing it, too. Not sure what that's about.

Did anyone notice if the blue glass bunny's ear was broken off when he gave it to her, or did that happen on the way to her home?

 

[preeya]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

2 hours ago, chessiegal said:

Did anyone else notice that the blue glass bunny the widower gave Matty had a chipped ear? The others they showed didn't.

1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

I did. They made a point of showing it, too. Not sure what that's about.

Did anyone notice if the blue glass bunny's ear was broken off when he gave it to her, or did that happen on the way to her home?

 

#1 When she received the bunny

#2 When she showed it to her husband

 

#3 She placed it on her coffee table:

Edited November 4 by preeya

[Nashville]

On 11/3/2024 at 7:02 AM, Chicago Redshirt said:

Fair enough. It may be that she naturally does have a Southern accent.

To my ear, though, she lays it on way thick when she's at work compared to when she's at home. Or maybe it's that when she is at work, she uses folksy expressions that make the same voice seem more Southern.

In real life, I have known Southerners who purposely minimize their drawls in public but have it come out more when they are drinking, or emotional. This could be some sort of flip on that.

Periodically there may be certain occasions when a Southerner may find it expedient to play up (or down) to people’s expectations and/or prejudices about them - and if playing up the “down home folksiness” horseshit while simultaneously playing down to whatever assumptions a bunch of New York lawyers might make about the intelligence of an older Southerner gets Maddie further along in her quest, then more power to her.  Sometimes leaning into a cultural bias gets you further than trying to minimize it, or pretending it doesn’t exist.

I personally have found it necessary to employ the same tactics myself in dealing with regional bigots, who frequently assume a slowness in Southern dialectic style necessarily implies a corresponding slowness of thought; spoiler alert, it doesn’t - but you can have a LOT of fun screwing with such morons until they figure it out.  😆

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Did anyone notice if the blue glass bunny's ear was broken off when he gave it to her, or did that happen on the way to her home?

2 hours ago, preeya said:

#1 When she received the bunny

#2 When she showed it to her husband

 

#3 She placed it on her coffee table:

Thank you, @preeya!! That's what I thought, but didn't trust it.
So, I guess we'll find out what happened and it will have some significance? 
Like maybe she took out her frustrations on the glass bunny? 

[Bastet]

9 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

My impression is that Sarah and Billy have been on the job for longer than that,

Sarah referenced being a year out of law school.

[Zaffy]

what if   someone in the production accidently broke the little bunny and now is having a good laugh at us trying to figure out the broken ear?? 😁

Edited November 4 by Zaffy

[peachmangosteen]

24 minutes ago, Zaffy said:

what if   someone in the production accidently broke the little bunny and now is having a good laugh at us trying to figure out the broken ear?? 😁

I think that probably is it tbh but then why did they need to show multiple close ups of it. Hide your goof!

Edited November 4 by peachmangosteen

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Zaffy said:

what if   someone in the production accidently broke the little bunny and now is having a good laugh at us trying to figure out the broken ear?? 😁

43 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

I think that probably is it tbh but then why did they need to show multiple close ups of it. Hide your goof!

Yes, there were a lot of other blue glass bunnies from which to choose for the close up. If it was an accident on set that amputated half of a blue glass bunny's ear, showing it in closeup means either a) they were inspired to work it into the plot, or b) they're screwing with us.

 

[Ellee]

20 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Yes, there were a lot of other blue glass bunnies from which to choose for the close up. If it was an accident on set that amputated half of a blue glass bunny's ear, showing it in closeup means either a) they were inspired to work it into the plot, or b) they're screwing with us.

 

Actually think that this will come back in the future.  Matty said something about the widower’s wife would be proud of him for fighting for Justice for her and he said all that he wanted was for additional time with her.  The message resonated with Matty. 
 

Very poor recap of what took place. 

[retired watcher]

On 10/31/2024 at 11:27 PM, dancingdreamer said:

.Julian, played by Julian  Ritter, really  looked like his father tonight. 

It's Jason Ritter.

[Morrigan2575]

On 11/3/2024 at 2:17 PM, DearEvette said:

I still think it is the least interesting part of the show mainly because they haven't given me any reason to care about her daughter. 

I actually really liked this hook at the end of the pilot, thought it made the show more interesting.  However,  since the pilot, I've found it the least interesting part of each episode.  I'm enjoying the case of the week and the characters at the law firm, I'm starting to find the daughter/opiod plot a detractor. 

[eel2178]

On 11/3/2024 at 6:19 PM, Zaffy said:

But this is not a typo, she is impersonating...basically she does not exist as a person. I have no clue about American laws, but somehow I do not think it is legal. Except if she has legally changed her name into Maddie Matlock.

I thought she was practicing under her maiden name, but now I don't remember where I got that impression.

[shapeshifter]

On 11/3/2024 at 7:48 PM, shapeshifter said:

My Social Security ID has a different version of my name than the one I typically use. When dealing with banks and lawyers they always tell me it doesn’t matter.

On 11/3/2024 at 8:19 PM, Zaffy said:

But this is not a typo, she is impersonating...basically she does not exist as a person. I have no clue about American laws, but somehow I do not think it is legal. Except if she has legally changed her name into Maddie Matlock.

1 hour ago, eel2178 said:

I thought she was practicing under her maiden name, but now I don't remember where I got that impression.

I thought I recalled something about her maiden name too.
And, by the way, the variation of my name that I use on legal documents is not a typo. It's my "maiden" name in place of the middle name which appears on my Social Security card.
Interestingly, the reason I was told this variation was acceptable for legal documents was because it is the name I used "professionally" at work.
So I would be amused if this show goes on for a number of years before Mattie gets caught using a pseudonym, and there's some legal reason it's okay since she's been using it as I had.
But I don't foresee the show going on for decades.

 

[SoMuchTV]

1 hour ago, eel2178 said:

I thought she was practicing under her maiden name, but now I don't remember where I got that impression.

In the Previouslies - I think it was before this episode - she was talking with her grandson about how the name was in honor of the tv show his mom liked. I guess it could also be her maiden name but it seems unlikely based on the way they were talking. 

[MissLucas]

Extremely late to the party but I came here for the mystery of the missing bunny ear. That's not a continuity error, those don't get close-ups. I'm sure it Mattie lost it during some nefarious shenanigans of hers that we will see in a flashback.

As for the show playing fast and loose with legal procedures. I'm a historian and I've watched plenty of shows with 'historians' who did not look older than 25 deciphering old Tibetan in one episode  and in the next episode identifying Sumerian pottery and in the episode after that giving an impromptu lecture on the origins of Freemasonry.

Edited November 7 by MissLucas

[Johannah]

I'm only 5 minutes in, so I'll read the comments when I'm done, but I just have to say how disgusting I find the secondary plot.  Not just the revenge, but teaching her grandson that it's okay to be a criminal as long as the person you are commiting it against isn't your friend.  I really don't like Mattie.  Are we supposed to like her?  Find her charming and cute? Sympathize with her revenge tactics?  Even when it's not related to the revenge thing, I find her smarmy. 

Okay, fast forwarding to the case of the week.

So, she cries to her husband about how hard it is to lie all the time...  So why does she smirk when her lies and manipulation work?

Edited November 7 by Johannah

[MissLucas]

I also have conflicting feelings about Mattie and her manipulations. But that's what I find intriguing about the show. We can sympathize with her pain (the first scene of her overreacting to her grandson's disappearance did a lot of heavy lifting in that regard) but  we're not supposed to applaud her actions - at least not all of them. This episode actually caused me tow wonder if getting the big bad wolf is really the main story line here. If Mattie succeeds the fallout on a human level will be rather epic and probably deliver drama for at least another season. And after that (provided the show has such long legs) we might end up with a more standard legal drama after the dust has settled.

[shapeshifter]

20 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

I also have conflicting feelings about Mattie and her manipulations. But that's what I find intriguing about the show. We can sympathize with her pain (the first scene of her overreacting to her grandson's disappearance did a lot of heavy lifting in that regard) but  we're not supposed to applaud her actions - at least not all of them. This episode actually caused me tow wonder if getting the big bad wolf is really the main story line here. If Mattie succeeds the fallout on a human level will be rather epic and probably deliver drama for at least another season. And after that (provided the show has such long legs) we might end up with a more standard legal drama after the dust has settled.

Yeah. It seems the show has around 18-22 episodes ordered, which is a lot these days; so there's still time for Mattie to maybe pivot from her initial agenda, perhaps for the sake of Alfie and herself and her husband and maybe even some coworkers?

[peachmangosteen]

12 hours ago, MissLucas said:

Extremely late to the party but I came here for the mystery of the missing bunny ear. That's not a continuity error, those don't get close-ups.

I wouldn't be so sure. It's happened in shows before. But still, I do think in this case it is more than that

[Dowel Jones]

Maybe it will be a plot point when the Easter season episodes roll around.

[possibilities]

I'm thinking the broken ear will turn up somewhere Maddy wasn't supposed to be, and someone will figure out she was there, and it will somehow blow her cover.

[Nashville]

6 minutes ago, possibilities said:

I'm thinking the broken ear will turn up somewhere Maddy wasn't supposed to be, and someone will figure out she was there, and it will somehow blow her cover.

In the Records Room, no doubt - probably in the archive box of a case file Maddie had no business accessing.

[Ellee]

Do the others even know Mattie got a blue bunny? 

[shapeshifter]

45 minutes ago, Ellee said:

Do the others even know Mattie got a blue bunny? 

Not yet…?

[eel2178]

19 hours ago, Johannah said:

So, she cries to her husband about how hard it is to lie all the time...  So why does she smirk when her lies and manipulation work?

because she's a totally obnoxious self-serving bitch

19 hours ago, Johannah said:

I just have to say how disgusting I find the secondary plot.  Not just the revenge, but teaching her grandson that it's okay to be a criminal as long as the person you are commiting it against isn't your friend.  I really don't like Mattie.  Are we supposed to like her?  Find her charming and cute? Sympathize with her revenge tactics?  Even when it's not related to the revenge thing, I find her smarmy. 

This is starting to be reminiscent of The Cleaning Lady who I loathed from the start of her series and finally threw in the towel and decided not to watch anymore.

She is also a totally obnoxious self-serving bitch who thinks nothing of committing multiple felonies and even more misdemeanors on the pretense of "I may be doing the wrong thing, but I'm doing it for the right reason."  For some reason TPTB think that we will sympathize with that, which couldn't have been farther from the truth for me.

I'm not sure how much longer I'll be able to tolerate Madeline Matlock/Kingston and her indiscretions, either. 

[eel2178]

2 hours ago, possibilities said:

I'm thinking the broken ear will turn up somewhere Maddy wasn't supposed to be, and someone will figure out she was there, and it will somehow blow her cover.

More likely, she'll squeak through it with one of her made up stories that nobody fact checks.

[Johannah]

31 minutes ago, eel2178 said:

because she's a totally obnoxious self-serving bitch

This is starting to be reminiscent of The Cleaning Lady who I loathed from the start of her series and finally threw in the towel and decided not to watch anymore.

She is also a totally obnoxious self-serving bitch who thinks nothing of committing multiple felonies and even more misdemeanors on the pretense of "I may be doing the wrong thing, but I'm doing it for the right reason."  For some reason TPTB think that we will sympathize with that, which couldn't have been farther from the truth for me.

I'm not sure how much longer I'll be able to tolerate Madeline Matlock/Kingston and her indiscretions, either. 

Oh, and the ads that say, "Kathy Bates lies.".  (Well, maybe, but it's actually her character you are referring to.). But it seems like they are saying it because they think we'll find it amusing and charming.  I do not.

Or maybe they think she's obnoxious, too, and they'll make it all come tumbling down and knock her off her high horse and give us a better law show-with her using her cleverness on the cases and not her revenge.  What are the chances?  (That's rhetorical.  Don't answer so I can dream...)

[juliet73]

On 11/1/2024 at 3:38 AM, andromeda331 said:

I wish Alfie was older and had issues. He's way too perfect and well adjusted for a kid who had a drug addict mother who died and the law firm is partly responsible. He just acts like he's having fun or it's a game.

I don't mind his age, but I agree with everything else.  Also, I don't like that he knows how to hack into everything.  He's like 12?  If anything they should have mentioned he was a computer prodigy in the pilot or even better, would have been for Maddie's husband have the IT knowledge and let the grandson just be a regular kid.

Edited November 10 by juliet73

[possibilities]

Yes, for a show that says it's fighting stereotypes of "old women" they sure are leaning into some of them. The kids grew up with computers, but their grandparents are the ones who developed them. So there are in fact some savvy elders. And it would make sense-- her husband could have made a fucking fortune in the industry. Surely they aren't implying that Maddy made the money, if she hasn't tried a case in 30 years. Or is the 30 year thing just part of her cover story? It's weird that they have a kid doing this instead of making it either a skill Maddy herself has or at least her husband is her partner in this way.

 

Edited November 10 by possibilities

[Bastet]

1 hour ago, possibilities said:

Surely they aren't implying that Maddy made the money, if she hasn't tried a case in 30 years.

They strike me as both having money, but, either way, Matty made plenty even though she wasn't in litigation.  The majority of lawyers aren't trial lawyers.

[Silver-hyren]

On 11/5/2024 at 7:32 PM, SoMuchTV said:

In the Previouslies - I think it was before this episode - she was talking with her grandson about how the name was in honor of the tv show his mom liked. I guess it could also be her maiden name but it seems unlikely based on the way they were talking. 

They explicitly state in the pilot that the name was chosen because Matty's daughter enjoyed watching the old Matlock show starring Andy Griffith.  So you're correct, it's not her maiden name.

[peachmangosteen]

11 hours ago, possibilities said:

Surely they aren't implying that Maddy made the money, if she hasn't tried a case in 30 years. Or is the 30 year thing just part of her cover story?

I thought in the pilot, when we found out that she was lying, she mentioned that she hadn't practiced in 10 years. But I might be making that up lol.

[shapeshifter]

11 hours ago, possibilities said:

Yes, for a show that says it's fighting stereotypes of "old women" they sure are leaning into some of them. The kids grew up with computers, but their grandparents are the ones who developed them. So there are in fact some savvy elders. And it would make sense-- her husband could have made a fucking fortune in the industry. Surely they aren't implying that Maddy made the money, if she hasn't tried a case in 30 years. Or is the 30 year thing just part of her cover story? It's weird that they have a kid doing this instead of making it either a skill Maddy herself has or at least her husband is her partner in this way.

 

👋
Dare we hope someone is right now creating a show in which the secretly tech savvy elder saves the day each week? 
Unfortunately, I cannot think of someone else to cast who would physically personify the character as well as Kathy Bates.

[possibilities]

Thanks for the reminders about Maddy's backstory-- 10 years since practicing, not 30, and that she could have been raking in the bucks in non-trial work all that time.

Still, even 10 years ago, she would surely have had a little more computer savvy than she's shown.

[seacliffsal]

On 11/10/2024 at 1:25 PM, possibilities said:

Thanks for the reminders about Maddy's backstory-- 10 years since practicing, not 30, and that she could have been raking in the bucks in non-trial work all that time.

Still, even 10 years ago, she would surely have had a little more computer savvy than she's shown.

This is a really good point-especially if she worked on contract law.  I would imagine she would have to do research, make/save files, be communicating with others in her office as well as the clients, etc.  So, yes, even 10 years ago she should be a bit more savvy!

[Badsamaritan]

I'm not a lawyer (and don't play one on TV) but, I would assume Matty had her own Matty at her law firm who did the grunt work. I've worked for a lot of C-suite folks, you'd be amazed at how unsavvy they are with tech. I can't count how many times I've had to show someone something as simple as pinning a google doc in their bookmarks. So Matty not being a whiz at computers doesn't bother me. 

What does bother me is the grandson. I think they really fucked up by casting someone so young. Involving him in these schemes is making him a criminal at 12 years old, and I refuse to believe his mom would be okay with that because really, what mom would want her child's guardians corrupting him in the name of 'justice'? It is such a huge misstep that I'm finding it hard to get too into the show, and it isn't making me like Matty or her husband or sympathize with them in any way. If they wanted the grandson to be a white hat hacker, they should've made him at least 17, and 19 with a baby face would've been even better. He could've pretended to be younger when Olympia came by the apartment, no one would know. As it stands, I think TPTB are gonna have to bring on an older tech person to work with Matty, otherwise she'll continue to look like a really bad grandma and I won't root for her. 

I like Olympia. She's had to work hard to get where she is. And, I don't think her soon-to-be-ex and the Meerkat are dating and they sure aren't living together. Because their children are old enough to ask who's bra that is in their daddy's bedroom lol. 🤷🏽‍♀️

Edited November 13 by Badsamaritan

[snarktini]

On 11/10/2024 at 6:34 AM, peachmangosteen said:

I thought in the pilot, when we found out that she was lying, she mentioned that she hadn't practiced in 10 years. But I might be making that up lol.

IIRC, the real Maddie hasn't practiced in 10. But "Maddie Matlock" hasn't practiced in 30. She made up a fake resume -- her husband posed as a reference for her.

ETA: Since not working in 30 years at age 75 would make it ridiculously hard to get hired, one assumes she only did that so that her fake resume would be too out-of-date to vet thoroughly.

Edited November 16 by snarktini