Season 2 Discussion

[RealityGal]

If Dani can't find a job soon, she can sit in the machine and be the claw. She's had plenty of practice with Mo's arms.

When I watch this show, I think to myself that we're seeing 6 couples and there are hundreds of thousands out there doing the same thing. Can they all be this loony?

I feel like it can't get any better than Dani and Mo, they are straight out of central casting.  I honestly think they struck gold with those two, because I don't even know if you could script a more amusing situation.

 

And I'm sure Danny's dad was like finding a second, much smaller pot of gold at the end of a rainbow.  Most racists are smart enough to know to keep their traps shut on national TV, its a rare gem of a racist that will let you videotape them saying ridiculously racist shit.  

[essexjan]

Evelin speaks English well, is in a fairly big city, and has a cell phone with internet access.  Surely, she could find a meetup group or some area where she could connect with fellow Columbians.

 

 

She's already done this - I posted a link a few weeks ago in the Media thread showing her and Jason's profile on a meetup group to meet fellow Colombians in the SF Bay area.

When I watch this show, I think to myself that we're seeing 6 couples and there are hundreds of thousands out there doing the same thing. Can they all be this loony?

 

 

Probably not - but TLC wants the ones that come with drama. It wouldn't be good TV to have the ones where the fiancé(e) comes from abroad to a big city, a comfortable home, no money worries, a welcoming family and a community of ex-pats helping them to integrate into their new life.

[Leroux]

On a related note, who is paying for the English class?

 

 

 

As far as i know the English lessons are for free, well, nothing is for free, but most states have free ESL classes through federally funded programs so in a nutshell who is paying for Mo's ESL classes? WE taxpayers are.

 

Upon further reflection, I'm sort of bothered by the Evelin situation because I think her sulking is part of a somewhat passive aggressive plan to get him to invite his family to their wedding.  Justin said something to the effect of "listen, I know you miss your family, how can I make you feel better?" and at some point she will be able to say "well, invite your family to the wedding."  

 

Evelin speaks English well, is in a fairly big city, and has a cell phone with internet access.  Surely, she could find a meetup group or some area where she could connect with fellow Columbians.  I think that most of california has a fairly decent public transportation system, so she could get out and meet people if she is that lonely.  This leads me to believe that, to some degree, she is sulking just to get Justin to want to do whatever he can to make her happy, which will of course, be to invite his family.

 

Evelin's English need a lot of work, if she just wants to be a SHM then she will be okay as that will not require great language skills but if she ever intends to teach dances profesionally then she better registers for ESL classes, that will occupy her time and get her to meet other people with some of her same struggles.

 

I think in Evelyn's case coming from such a close knit she figured that with Justin's family it would be the same and now she finds herself in this terrible situation and she is trying to "fix it" , she probably knows that Justin's mom will forever be grateful to her and welcome her with more open arms if she somehow manages to convince Jason to invite his mom. I am torn about this one, on one hand I feel like Evelin can be more assertive and plain tell Justin, "hey, I understand your situation with your family and the problems that are going on right now but now matter what is going on your mom is your mom and even if you don't invite anybody else, you will invite her because it will make me very happy on this special day" , Justin is the type of a$$hola that needs a very strong woman to put him back in check or he will roll all over her, but Evelin seems meeky and willing to please him , that will get old in time.

 

On the other hand I feel like Evelin can "negotiate: a little bit and agreee to elope and just do a civil ceremony here in the states and then have a nice religious celebration in Colombia with all her family, ultimately she wants the memories of that special day and Justin doesn't seeem to care one bit about what her needs are.Justin is only worried about what Justin wants.  

[RealityGal]

As far as i know the English lessons are for free, well, nothing is for free, but most states have free ESL classes through federally funded programs so in a nutshell who is paying for Mo's ESL classes? WE taxpayers are.

 

 

Evelin's English need a lot of work, if she just wants to be a SHM then she will be okay as that will not require great language skills but if she ever intends to teach dances profesionally then she better registers for ESL classes, that will occupy her time and get her to meet other people with some of her same struggles.

 

I think in Evelyn's case coming from such a close knit she figured that with Justin's family it would be the same and now she finds herself in this terrible situation and she is trying to "fix it" , she probably knows that Justin's mom will forever be grateful to her and welcome her with more open arms if she somehow manages to convince Jason to invite his mom. I am torn about this one, on one hand I feel like Evelin can be more assertive and plain tell Justin, "hey, I understand your situation with your family and the problems that are going on right now but now matter what is going on your mom is your mom and even if you don't invite anybody else, you will invite her because it will make me very happy on this special day" , Justin is the type of a$$hola that needs a very strong woman to put him back in check or he will roll all over her, but Evelin seems meeky and willing to please him , that will get old in time.

 

On the other hand I feel like Evelin can "negotiate: a little bit and agreee to elope and just do a civil ceremony here in the states and then have a nice religious celebration in Colombia with all her family, ultimately she wants the memories of that special day and Justin doesn't seeem to care one bit about what her needs are.Justin is only worried about what Justin wants.  

 

My only concern with Justin's mom is that if she and Justin don't have a close relationship, to the point where he isn't really all that interested in inviting her to the wedding his mom may simply use Evelin as a pawn to pull Justin back into a family dynamic he isn't interested in.  She lets Evelin do the dirty work of pouting and pushing Justin towards his family and when Justin falls back into patterns he doesn't like his mother has appeared to keep her hands clean.  Some people seem nice, but are, in reality a little toxic.  Whatever has potentially strained the relationship may be something he wants to tell her, in time, but if he feels like he can't trust her, he may never want to confide in her.

 

And if Martha (?) doesn't have a close enough relationship with her son, to the point where he either doesn't feel comfortable that he can invite her and she can keep her mouth shut, or where he just doesn't want her there that may not be a relationship you want to wade into right away.

 

I think your second idea is probably the best bet.  Simply have the civil ceremony on a beach in wherever and then the following summer plan a trip to Columbia to have a nice wedding reception with her family.

 

I know someone upthread said that if Justin's family doesn't get invited they will always blame Evelin, but I think, honestly, they will always blame Evelin for everything and anything.  The SIL just seems like that sort of woman, and the entire family seems to let the SIL say/do whatever she wants.  Evelin needs to worry about her marriage and relationship, and if she doesn't understand the family dynamics yet, its probably not a good idea for her to rush in and try to change them right off the bat.  Doing that may ultimately alienate Justin.

[cooksdelight]

I can sympathize with Evelin somewhat. I am from a large family and we all get along and do things together. I was married to someone who was just the opposite. His family always gave me the side-eye because I am an upbeat person who enjoys life and I didn't go along with their head games and bashing each other verbally. I see that in Evelin as well. She wants everyone to get along and have fun. But unless Justin opens up to her and goes into some detail of why he is alienated from his family, all her efforts will be for nothing. And could possibly backfire on her.

[TonyasBlueEyeshado]

This is why it is so important to actually talk to your significant other. I can understand Justin not wanting his family there. I don't understand why he doesn't think of Evelin as his friend as well as his wife, and talk to her (or at least, it is not shown). While I know family is important to her, Evelin doesn't strike me as not caring or not understanding. Family is super important to me, but I also understand why others people might feel differently about theirs. If he sat with her and said "Look, my family has treated me poorly. You saw a taste of that. I understand family is important to you, and you miss yours, but also understand why mine is different."

 

Danielle and Mo ... I cannot add anything to the brilliance of what has already been said.

 

I'm warming to Daya. Also, I agree with the poster who said that they get the idea that Sue has been left for an Asian woman or has has some trouble (maybe she liked someone but they didn't date her because of an Asian woman). Because she seems to have a random factoid in her head. While yes, there are cases of women using men (and vice versa) there are also cases of actual love and lasting marriages. 

 

But regardless of fears, I don't understand why there can't be any normal conversations with people. I know there is the green card concerns, but why not talk and get to know the person first before making that assumption? Why does basic politeness and decency have to go out the door. I don't know of any K-1 situations like the show, so maybe that taints my views, but I've seen a few relationships that have caused a raised eyebrow. But, I have always given the person the benefit of the doubt, and I'm glad for that because of the cases in which I was wrong . 

Yes, I was the one who proposed the "scorn of Sue"- ha ha ha. She is downright ridiculous... and incoherent. My parents are of her generation. When my mom was a young lady serving in the Navy, she was stationed on Guam and very homesick. So, my hippie, hitchhiking, draft-dodging uncle somehow made it out there to visit her, and married a young lady who was vacationing from Japan. They married and travelled around the world together, despite my aunt speaking no English whatsoever. Still married, 40 years later. Take that, Sue!

 

But, seriously, is she all lit up on Prozac or something? I found her mode of speech to be insanely incoherent. "dominant Asian culture"- wtf?

[trimthatfat]

I can sympathize with Evelin somewhat. I am from a large family and we all get along and do things together. I was married to someone who was just the opposite. His family always gave me the side-eye because I am an upbeat person who enjoys life and I didn't go along with their head games and bashing each other verbally. I see that in Evelin as well. She wants everyone to get along and have fun. But unless Justin opens up to her and goes into some detail of why he is alienated from his family, all her efforts will be for nothing. And could possibly backfire on her.

Well said. I think the biggest problem is that Justin won't confide in her as to what the specific problem is. I think she is owed that. Viewers, not so much. How hard is it to say 'I don't get along with my family because of x, y, and z?'. Evelin isn't a random one night stand - she's going to be his wife and shutting her out of what's going on is going to do way more harm than good. Maybe Justin doesn't care about that.

 

I personally don't understand why Evelin, the mother, and the brother are being exclusively blamed for what's happening while Justin just sits there, slack-jawed and blame-free.

Edited December 2, 2014 by trimthatfat

[PityFree]

I will give Mo one thing - he isn't resting on his laurels. He is off taking English classes to improve himself. So Kudos to him. I am sure it is for selfish reasons. The more proficient in English he is, the sooner he can get away from Danielle. He is probably doing like Julia Roberts in Sleeping With The Enemy but instead of swim lessons at the YWCA, he is learning to conjugate and not let his participles dangle.

OMG I am dying laughing at this line. Don't make me feel bad for Mo! LOL!

[sookisooki]

I can sympathize with Evelin somewhat. I am from a large family and we all get along and do things together. I was married to someone who was just the opposite. His family always gave me the side-eye because I am an upbeat person who enjoys life and I didn't go along with their head games and bashing each other verbally. I see that in Evelin as well. She wants everyone to get along and have fun. But unless Justin opens up to her and goes into some detail of why he is alienated from his family, all her efforts will be for nothing. And could possibly backfire on her.

You make a very good point.  Evelin has a naïve point of view (naïve in a good way) that could hurt the relationship.  You stated 'married' in the past tense. Would you say that that is what ended your marriage cooksdelight?

[cooksdelight]

No, it was something that had nothing to do with his family.

[gunderda]

I so agree Gunderda. This is why I am behind the Run, Amy, run movement. I think it is so easy to get swept up in the OMG LOVE! part of a new romance, that you think you can push aside the other things. But they have weird ways of manifesting themselves. Does Amy want to raise children in a family where 1) her husband will not stand up for her and 2) her children will not be accepted? What will happen on Christmas and holidays? Does Danny harbor any of these sentiments? Does he consider himself marrying down, and expect Amy to be more grateful to him hence more of an obedient wife?

Marriage is a partnership, a business decision, an investment, and other things. Love is just one of a multitude of factors. Sure, it softens the pieces, but they still have to fit together.

And I have a feeling that at some point Danny's family may have tried to changed their dad's views and got a huge lecture so now they just let him be crazy and kinda pretend it doesn't happen.  Obviously his sibilings and mom do not have the same view point so they just let dad be dad.  Sometimes it's just easier that way unfortunately.

 

ala CASSIA! I think that is called hombre? I don't know. Where I'm from, we call that "roots" and think she needs a touch-up job. ;)

Ombre ;)   I currently have it but I don't have really dark "roots"  more of a dirty blonde and beach blonde ombre.  It can be very pretty when done well! Cassia's is just very harsh. 

 

And I can't help it, but I actually enjoy Cassia. She's probably the only one that doesn't come across as super awkward when doing her talking heads.  I enjoy her openness and honesty. She's a little nutty though.

[fliptopbox]

I can agree that big, close-knit families freak me out. My family is pretty small and for the most part we avoid each other. My father and his side live in TN and GA....the ones in GA don't speak to the ones in TN. I don't speak to any of them, except the obligatory holiday texts I send to my dad. Occasionally we "like" each other's stuff on Facebook. My mom's family I don't talk to either, and only my uncle is left anyway. He's creepy. Trust me, he really is. My stepfather's family is nice, but they don't really feel like family. More like family friends. I only see them around Christmas and maybe once or so in the summer. So people who have those crazy huge families who are always in each others' business and hanging out feels strange to me. I know it shouldn't, but it does.

 

Anyway if Justin does have some serious issues with his mom and/or brother he really needs to let Evelin know what it is before she makes a huge mess. I can see Justin getting really mad if she tries to force the relationship and he doesn't want to - and it's for a very valid reason. Us as the viewers don't need to know, but Evelin definitely does.

[sleepyjean]

I think the biggest problem is that Justin won't confide in her as to what the specific problem is. I think she is owed that. Viewers, not so much. How hard is it to say 'I don't get along with my family because of x, y, and z?'. Evelin isn't a random one night stand - she's going to be his wife and shutting her out of what's going on is going to do way more harm than good. Maybe Justin doesn't care about that.

 

Or....Justin has confided in her and she doesn't feel his reason is sufficient excuse to alienate himself from his family. I've seen this time and time again. "Yes your mom/dad/sister/brother is a toxic ass. But it's your mom/dad/sister/brother, so you should tolerate it. At least for birthdays and major holidays." So who is right? Who is being selfish? Him, for not inviting his family to make her happy? Or her for insisting he invite them and spend his wedding day uncomfortable and unhappy? Neither one of them seems to be thinking "How can I make my fiance happy?" They seem unable or unwilling to compromise, and that's a red flag. Someone upthread had the idea of eloping and then having a ceremony in Colombia. That would be a great compromise (assuming they can afford it.). Why hasn't it occurred to them?

Edited December 2, 2014 by sleepyjean

[sookisooki]

She's already done this - I posted a link a few weeks ago in the Media thread showing her and Jason's profile on a meetup group to meet fellow Colombians in the SF Bay area.

 

Probably not - but TLC wants the ones that come with drama. It wouldn't be good TV to have the ones where the fiancé(e) comes from abroad to a big city, a comfortable home, no money worries, a welcoming family and a community of ex-pats helping them to integrate into their new life.

And, I might add, someone coming from a big, happy healthy family most likely wouldn't be needy and isolated like Danielle and therefore not fall into this 'marriage of convenience' situation.  Could that also be Amy's downfall as the only child?

[funky-rat]

The place mentioned upthread where Dani and Mo went for rings was in the 5th Street Arcades.  Cleveland has some really gorgeous old shopping arcades (they're the 1800's version of the mall).  They tend to be high-end.  As soon as I saw them driving into Cleveland, I figured they'd be looking for pawn shops, but this isn't your average pawn shop - they only do jewelry:

http://www.5thstreetarcades.com/store/dewitt-s-diamond-and-gold-exchange/2137049447/2138840220

 

Dani's wedding dress is probably one of those Chinese-made eBay dresses.  Many larger gals I know have gotten dresses that way (prom, wedding, etc).  I'm a larger gal, but I prefer to try things on, and would NEVER show that much skin.  Especially my arms.

 

Justin's mom continues to creep me out.  When she said they were a team, I got shivers.  I would plead with Justin to open up to her and lay it all out.  If she came to the US for you, she likely won't run if you open up about your family dynamic, but she deserves to know.  It's not fair to her.

 

I can only hope that Danny does what my husband used to do when his family acted the fool, and that was bitch about it in the car, and I hope that TLC isn't showing that (perhaps at his request).  I really hope.  And I'm from PA.  It irritates me when I hear the "Philly and Pittsburgh with Alabama in-between" stuff.  I live in Central PA, partway between Harrisburg and Wilkes-Barre.  Live in a small town. Grew up in a small town.  We have many good colleges and schools here.  We're not all backward hicks.  Most people I know are accepting of interracial marriage.  We have a bit to go yet on the whole homophobic aspect, but as soon as we can break the people of the mindset that Jesus says it's bad, it will be fine.  We're getting there.  My husband is from a large city and he was homophobic when we first met.  I told him quite plainly that I grew up around gay men, and I watched many die in the 80's, and that I had hugged HIV positive people, and I had eaten food they prepared and even used their bathrooms.  My mom and I were given a lot of crap for it by many people, but it eventually blew over.  I also told him that I had gay friends, and they're regular people like him or me, and he needed to get over it.  And he did.  Some of that goes back to his family, and once he broke free of that old mindset, it faded away.  He loves my gay friends.

 

Not much to say about Jason and Cassia, except that I'm rooting more and more for her.  She needs someone a little closer to her age.

 

I'm also rooting more and more for Daya despite my earlier misgivings.  My guess is with many others that Sue was jilted for someone of the "Asian Persuasion".  I didn't think people still talked like that.  Sheesh.

[joanofarch4]

"On a related note, who is paying for the English class?"

 

"English as a second language" courses, as well as GED training, are offered free in most communities; I guess even in this backwater!

 

I was frankly impressed that Mo could read the letter; perhaps better than Danielle could have!

 

She seems to be all about proving to her family and friends that she can actually get married to a halfway decent-looking guy; maybe someone once told her she couldn't or something...  At any rate, I also get the "Misery"/killer/stalker vibe from her... 

 

And does Mo have to do all the cooking (with the wrong utensils)?  Is that part of the deal?  Those nearly grown teenage girls can't fry an egg or zap a microwave meal?

 

RUN, MO; RUN FAR, RUN DEEP...

[joanofarch4]

The more I see of Evelin, the more I think she's not the sharpest knife in the drawer...  And she's not exactly proficient in English...  And perhaps she's just too "obtuse" to comprehend Justin's position...  But she seems to be just willfully and bullheadedly on a "mission," as she puts, to disrespect him in this matter and thwart his wishes; must have a Messianic complex or something.  Team not-Alec-Baldwin.

[RealityGal]

Well said. I think the biggest problem is that Justin won't confide in her as to what the specific problem is. I think she is owed that. Viewers, not so much. How hard is it to say 'I don't get along with my family because of x, y, and z?'. Evelin isn't a random one night stand - she's going to be his wife and shutting her out of what's going on is going to do way more harm than good. Maybe Justin doesn't care about that.

 

I personally don't understand why Evelin, the mother, and the brother are being exclusively blamed for what's happening while Justin just sits there, slack-jawed and blame-free.

I don't know, sometimes people don't want to share right away because it is super painful.  It may not be a matter of not trusting her, its just he isn't ready to open up about some big dark secret yet.  Its like a wound, sometimes its just too tender to touch, and you have to give it a little time before you talk to anyone about it.  I wouldn't want to force someone to tell me something like that.  My feeling is that if someone is telling me that they really don't want their family there, I would try to respect that, because I don't know what the history is, and I'm not sure if its something that needs to be coaxed out versus forced out.  

 

My feeling is that he has made an odd decision, and if he has done it, its for a reason.  I don't think you should push someone into something that they don't want to do, or into a situation that is going to make them uncomfortable on a day that should be about your love for him, and his love for you.  If she absolutely needs his family to be involved in his life, then she shouldn't marry him and he shouldn't push her to marry him.

[Adeejay]

I am not seeing Justin's mom as the "Darth Vader Mom", so I must be missing something.  What did she do or what is she doing that makes her so heinous? 

[trimthatfat]

I don't know, sometimes people don't want to share right away because it is super painful.  It may not be a matter of not trusting her, its just he isn't ready to open up about some big dark secret yet.  Its like a wound, sometimes its just too tender to touch, and you have to give it a little time before you talk to anyone about it.  I wouldn't want to force someone to tell me something like that.  My feeling is that if someone is telling me that they really don't want their family there, I would try to respect that, because I don't know what the history is, and I'm not sure if its something that needs to be coaxed out versus forced out.  

 

My feeling is that he has made an odd decision, and if he has done it, its for a reason.  I don't think you should push someone into something that they don't want to do, or into a situation that is going to make them uncomfortable on a day that should be about your love for him, and his love for you.  If she absolutely needs his family to be involved in his life, then she shouldn't marry him and he shouldn't push her to marry him.

If he doesn't want to confide in her, he then cannot get upset if Evelin makes mistakes as she tries to navigate the situation. That's my only point. I wasn't saying or insinuating he needs to be pushed into confiding - just that there are consequences to not doing that when you are in a serious relationship with someone who clearly doesn't understand what's going on.

[funky-rat]

I am not seeing Justin's mom as the "Darth Vader Mom", so I must be missing something.  What did she do or what is she doing that makes her so heinous? 

 

In my opinion, she's very passive agressive and co-dependent.  She cries that she wants her sons to get along, but she doesn't seem to want to step in and stop one son and his evil wife from slamming the other one.  Apparently she strikes a nerve with several of us.  She reminds me of my late mother-in-law, who played a lot of the same games.

[Lesia]

Even if you think your child is marrying the wrong person, at least have some manners.  I know that I may not have brought the best guys home to meet my parents, but they were always respectful of anyone and everyone brought home both by me and my brother.  We came to our own conclusions later...

And Danny- what a wuss.  He should have sat with Amy and defended her and them.  That is youth combined with little life experience.

 

Danielle- everything about her is so sad.   Work on yourself first, then bring a man into your and your children's lives. 

 

Cassia and Jason- "we have problems, but here's a ring."  That makes for a solid beginning.

[Toaster Strudel]

I am not seeing Justin's mom as the "Darth Vader Mom", so I must be missing something.  What did she do or what is she doing that makes her so heinous? 

 

She did not express any disapproval of Darth Jennifer during the vicious attack, or when she met with Jason later.

 

She guilted him for not involving his family in "emotions, in love, engagement, talking about marriage."

 

She totally ignored his concerns, his feelings, by telling HIM that HE should "be fair to [his] family, especially Jake and Jenny."  That's right.  She made Justin the bad guy here.  He is the one that was unfair to his family.  ESPECIALLY Darth Jennifer and his arrogant brother.

 

She made zero effort trying to understand Justin's point of view and reaching out to him.  Instead, she said "Can you understand their point of view?"  Again, she is making Justin the BAD GUY.  He is the one that must conform to the dysfunctional agenda that she set out for him.

 

That idiot Evelin chimed in "I want Justin to spend more time with Jake" - really.  She can't see the intense discomfort Justin feels with his dysfunctional family, when it's painfully obvious?  I want to slap her until she does.

 

Then we get into the high octane manipulation.  She turns into a weeping victim/waif.  "the most important thing that makes me cry (whimpers) is the relationship of my kids, cause you're all I have."  Yes.  Her golden child Jake and his golden bride Darth Jennifer.  Jason is the family scapegoat.  It's all his fault, but god forbid he tries to make a run for it and get away from the dysfunction, Marth Vader is going to reel him back with the tears and Jake-the-Enforcer, and Jennifer-the-Pitbull.

 

Next thing you know she's using Evelin as a proxy in her war against Justin, conspiring with her to isolate and break Justin. 

 

Justin will have everybody in his world against him.  His manipula-mom, his bride, his smug brother, and his angry drunken wife.  I wouldn't want to be him.

[GracieK]

While I agree there may certainly be dysfunction in that family we aren't aware of, and the SIL is simply intolerable... but being that Evelin hasn't been clued in to exactly what this dysfunction stems from, can we speculate that perhaps Justin has always been removed from the family and difficult to get close to?  I just don't think we can gather either way at this point if his mother is some master manipulator or if she genuinely wants to see her sons get close because Justin has always made it hard to do so.  On the surface she doesn't strike me as particularly poisonous.   I do feel she should spend more time getting to the core of why Justin feels and has made the choice to exclude his family, but if it's simply because the SIL is a huge PITA, I don't think that is all that devastating that Justin can't just grin and bear her. 

 

All that said, who cares if he wants to elope?  I was just recently married, and we were going to elope to an island to do it, but then decided to do a small ceremony with just family.  I am very close to my family and my husband to his, so we wanted them there, but when we were bouncing around the idea of just going on our own to do it, everyone was supportive and just wanted us to be happy and have the day we wanted.  It would be different if they were planning a ceremony with an audience but then specifically exlcuded some family members, but that doesn't sound to be the case. 

Edited December 2, 2014 by GracieK

[Toaster Strudel]

If he doesn't want to confide in her, he then cannot get upset if Evelin makes mistakes as she tries to navigate the situation.

 

Hey.  Family abuse is a complex and difficult forest in which it is very easy to lose one's way.  It is very challenging to explain abuse to people.  They have sympathy for victims that make the news, but when they are faced with a victim in real life, the sympathy is for the poor, poor mother.  You cannot overestimate how much people are resistant to the idea that mothers are abusive.  You can tell someone that you were regularly abandoned in public places as a 6 year old, that your mother would encourage your father to beat you and neglected to buy you the clothes and school supplies she could comfortably afford, while your sibling was covered in gifts, outings and privileges, and all you will get is: "but she's your mother" - exactly what that credulous dimwit Evelin would say.  And for all the "well-meaning" family members trying to stitch victims and abusers back together in one harmonious quilt, they always seem to consider that the abuser is the victim, and will take their side.  Yes, it's that objectionable to try to escape your parents when you are an adult.  This is what Justin is dealing with, the poor man is in a torture chamber.  He tried to hang on to something that he felt was NOT dysfunctional, something that was foreign and untainted, something that could be his.  But Marth Vader is trying to take this away from him, and Evelin is dragging him back in.

 

I do feel she should spend more time getting to the core of why Justin feels and has made the choice to exclude his family. 

 

That's because she knows why.  She wants to continue ignoring it.

 

[RealityGal]

If he doesn't want to confide in her, he then cannot get upset if Evelin makes mistakes as she tries to navigate the situation. That's my only point. I wasn't saying or insinuating he needs to be pushed into confiding - just that there are consequences to not doing that when you are in a serious relationship with someone who clearly doesn't understand what's going on.

but then just respect him, he says he doesn't want to talk about it, and that he doesn't want his family there, respect it.  No one, IMO, should be pushed into something that they don't want to do, and that goes for both parties.  If she decides that the family being there is so important that she doesn't want to get married over it, fine, he shouldn't force her to get married if its that important to her and he doesn't want to do it.  He has made his feelings crystal clear, and so its time to stop pushing, because she doesn't know the situation, respect that that is not what he wants to do.  And if its of such paramount importance, then wait to get married or draw your line in the sand and find another guy that will invite his family to your wedding.  But this passive aggressive, manipulative pushing when someone has made their feelings known on the subject seems to be something that will only potentially create a division between her and him.

[GracieK]

Did I miss something explaining that Justin was abused, or are you simply speculating that based on his reluctance to be close to his family?  He very well may have been, but I think asserting it as a fact is a little bit of a reach without anything to corroborate it.  

[Persnickety1]

I dearly loved Sue's reaction when she said she'd heard a lot about Daya and Daya asked if it was all good.  Sue looked everywhere except at Daya and then finally said yes.  I think she's a bitter old bitch that wants Liver Lips for herself.

 

Also, I love whenever Dani tries to kiss Mo and he absolutely will not give her the lips.  I would love to be a fly on the wall on the night of their marriage.

 

My prediction:

 

"We cannot fornicate.  We were married at City Hall.  In my religion, that is not considered a true marriage.  No fornication until after we have an official Muslim wedding."

 

I'm pretty sure good old Mohamed has a lot of tricks up his sleeve to avoid slipping Danielle the hot beef injection.

 

(And I don't blame him one little bit.)

[Janet Snakehole]

I feel like we dont't know enough to be sure if Justin's mom is manipulative, abusive, sees Justin's brother as a saint. Nor do we know enough to say for sure that Justin is difficult to get close to and at blame for the family's situation. All we can say for sure is there is some weird family dynamic. And even if Evelin does not get it, I do feel bad for her because she is stuck in the middle. And it is her wedding too, unless I am mistaken, I have not heard her say that she wants to elope.

[RealityGal]

While I agree there may certainly be dysfunction in that family we aren't aware of, and the SIL is simply intolerable... but being that Evelin hasn't been clued in to exactly what this dysfunction stems from, can we speculate that perhaps Justin has always been removed from the family and difficult to get close to?  I just don't think we can gather either way at this point if his mother is some master manipulator or if she genuinely wants to see her sons get close because Justin has always made it hard to do so.  On the surface she doesn't strike me as particularly poisonous.   I do feel she should spend more time getting to the core of why Justin feels and has made the choice to exclude his family, but if it's simply because the SIL is a huge PITA, I don't think that is all that devastating that Justin can't just grin and bear her. 

 

All that said, who cares if he wants to elope?  I was just recently married, and we were going to elope to an island to do it, but then decided to do a small ceremony with just family.  I am very close to my family and my husband to his, so we wanted them there, but when we were bouncing around the idea of just going on our own to do it, everyone was supportive and just wanted us to be happy and have the day we wanted.  It would be different if they were planning a ceremony with an audience but then specifically exlcuded some family members, but that doesn't sound to be the case. 

You're right, we don't know, but he clearly doesn't want his family there, and I don't think you should push people into doing things they don't want to do.  Maybe for kids, but for grown adults, nah. I suspect the plan Evelin has in mind is to act pouty, cry a little, and when Justin asks how he can make her feel better she will start trying to manipulate him into having his family at the wedding.  And that just feels icky to me.  If he doesn't want his family there, respect that, the same way he should respect her if she really doesn't want to do something.

[GracieK]

You're right, we don't know, but he clearly doesn't want his family there, and I don't think you should push people into doing things they don't want to do.  Maybe for kids, but for grown adults, nah. I suspect the plan Evelin has in mind is to act pouty, cry a little, and when Justin asks how he can make her feel better she will start trying to manipulate him into having his family at the wedding.  And that just feels icky to me.  If he doesn't want his family there, respect that, the same way he should respect her if she really doesn't want to do something.

 

I agree that she shouldn't push it when he's made his feelings clear about who he wants there.  But it is her wedding too.  And she is marrying this man after leaving her country and family in order to do so.  I think he owes her a bit of an explanation as to why.  She seemed taken aback from the beginning and I don't think it was really fair to spring on everyone that she was his fiancee upon meeting her.  Regardless of whatever has happened in the family, if you know they are a bunch of intolerable assholes, then don't throw your future wife into the lion's den like that.  He should have been more protective if they are that bad.  

[RealityGal]

I feel like we dont't know enough to be sure if Justin's mom is manipulative, abusive, sees Justin's brother as a saint. Nor do we know enough to say for sure that Justin is difficult to get close to and at blame for the family's situation. All we can say for sure is there is some weird family dynamic. And even if Evelin does not get it, I do feel bad for her because she is stuck in the middle. And it is her wedding too, unless I am mistaken, I have not heard her say that she wants to elope.

I think thats fine, if she doesn't want to elope, and he is dead set on not having his family there, no one should really force anyone to do something they are dead set against.  Maybe she heads back to Columbia if its that important to her and they get married down there and then move back up here (I don't know if you have to actually get married in the US in order for the spouse to get a green card/citizenship).  Maybe they decide to wait a while and have her family fly up for the wedding.  I mean it sounds like she is most close to her mother and her brother so perhaps just having a few of her family members will make her feel better. I don't think she should be forced into an elopement if thats not what she wants.  Especially where a family dynamic is concerned and someone doesn't want to tell you all about it, I would leave it be.

 

Maybe they wait and get married in Columbia first, and then have a justice of the peace do a quick marriage ceremony in the US so that she can have her family at a ceremony.  Or, if she just wants them around to celebrate their love, maybe they get married alone on a beach and simply have a reception when they get back.  There are a million ways around this, so why she is dead set on forcing him to do something he really doesn't want to do is a mystery to me.  She barely knows these people.

[Toaster Strudel]

 Regardless of whatever has happened in the family, if you know they are a bunch of intolerable assholes, then don't throw your future wife into the lion's den like that.  He should have been more protective if they are that bad.  

 

I think not introducing your bride to your family and insisting on elopement is a big red honking flag.  Protecting her - that's exactly what he was trying to do.  SHE pushed to meet the family.  SHE pushed for Justin to speak to Marth Vader after the pool party fiasco.  Now SHE's pushing for Marth Vader and her Storm Troopers to attend the wedding.  Oh he tried, he really tried.

 

[RealityGal]

I agree that she shouldn't push it when he's made his feelings clear about who he wants there.  But it is her wedding too.  And she is marrying this man after leaving her country and family in order to do so.  I think he owes her a bit of an explanation as to why.  She seemed taken aback from the beginning and I don't think it was really fair to spring on everyone that she was his fiancee upon meeting her.  Regardless of whatever has happened in the family, if you know they are a bunch of intolerable assholes, then don't throw your future wife into the lion's den like that.  He should have been more protective if they are that bad.  

IIRC he seemed remarkably reluctant to bring her around his family, and I thought she kept asking (or maybe it was a couple from last season).  It is her wedding, and no one should force her to get married if she is dead set on having his family there to see it.  I wouldn't push anyone for an explanation over a strange family dynamic, because the root of that could be so many things, and a lot of it may be things you aren't really ready to talk about with anyone.  You just don't know, so the safest bet is not to push it, and to respect what the person has made crystal clear to you.  I think, if it had been up to him, they might have met her after they were married, but IIRC she really wanted to meet his family.  He may not have the tools to cope with whatever has made that family dynamic so strange and so avoidance is the easiest way.

[GracieK]

I think not introducing your bride to your family and insisting on elopement is a big red honking flag.  Protecting her - that's exactly what he was trying to do.  SHE pushed to meet the family.  SHE pushed for Justin to speak to Marth Vader after the pool party fiasco.  Now SHE's pushing for Marth Vader and her Storm Troopers to attend the wedding.  Oh he tried, he really tried.

 

 

Meh... I don't think you should have to interpret your fiance's behaviors.  Be clear about why you don't want them in your life and don't take her to meet them at all.  Or at least don't wait until the meeting to spring on them that you are engaged.  When Justin met with his brother later on, he said he expected them to say "congratulations" and pat him on the back.  If he knows how terrible they are, why would he expect that?  I do agree the family should have swallowed their shock a bit, and tried to be more supportive in that moment, but besides the terrible SIL's reaction, I don't think anyone elses was that hard to relate to.  I don't see him giving concrete reasons to Evelin why he doesn't want his family involved, and he owes that to her if they are marrying.  Heck when he introduced her to his friends, the friend's main concern was with her having to meet the SIL.  I guess I'm just blind to what the big problem is, other than her.  

[GracieK]

IIRC he seemed remarkably reluctant to bring her around his family, and I thought she kept asking (or maybe it was a couple from last season).  It is her wedding, and no one should force her to get married if she is dead set on having his family there to see it.  I wouldn't push anyone for an explanation over a strange family dynamic, because the root of that could be so many things, and a lot of it may be things you aren't really ready to talk about with anyone.  You just don't know, so the safest bet is not to push it, and to respect what the person has made crystal clear to you.  I think, if it had been up to him, they might have met her after they were married, but IIRC she really wanted to meet his family.  He may not have the tools to cope with whatever has made that family dynamic so strange and so avoidance is the easiest way.

 

Agree to disagree.  While he doesn't need to get into gory details by any stretch, I believe a future spouse has a right to know what they are marrying into, including how that affects the person's state of mind and who they will be and exposing children to if they start their own family.

[RealityGal]

Meh... I don't think you should have to interpret your fiance's behaviors.  Be clear about why you don't want them in your life and don't take her to meet them at all.  Or at least don't wait until the meeting to spring on them that you are engaged.  When Justin met with his brother later on, he said he expected them to say "congratulations" and pat him on the back.  If he knows how terrible they are, why would he expect that?  I do agree the family should have swallowed their shock a bit, and tried to be more supportive in that moment, but besides the terrible SIL's reaction, I don't think anyone elses was that hard to relate to.  I don't see him giving concrete reasons to Evelin why he doesn't want his family involved, and he owes that to her if they are marrying.  Heck when he introduced her to his friends, the friend's main concern was with her having to meet the SIL.  I guess I'm just blind to what the big problem is, other than her.  

But then you're potentially pushing someone to tell you something that could be very very painful.  Or it could be something stupid.  You have no idea, and so best to leave it alone, and let it come out when it comes out.  But you really shouldn't push a grown adult to do something that they really don't want to do.  And that goes for him, he shouldn't push her to do something she doesn't want to do either.  If she doesn't want to get married unless his family is there, he shouldn't push her into getting married.  I think if she just wants his family more involved there are so many other ways to accomplish that goal besides pushing something on him he doesn't want to do, something he has been clear he doesn't want to do.

 

I think he tried to placate her by letting her meet his family, because she was pushing for it.  I think if it were up to him, they wouldn't have met her until after they had their first child.  So he has acquiesced for her, but this one thing that he has said he really doesn't want to do is the one thing she is going to push, and push, and push him for?   Come on now, respect him as an adult, and don't push him to do something he says he doesn't want to do.

 

I mean, lets say its just that he doesn't want the SIL there because he knows that they have barely scratched the surface with her level of nastiness.  No one will stop her from saying whatever she wants to say and he just doesn't want to deal with it.  he knows if he invites his mother, his mother will either a) prefer to beg forgiveness than ask permission and will just tell the brother and SIL where the wedding will be, and will just say that it was so important for her to have her boys together or b) meddle and needle him until he also invites SIL and brother.  And then it will totally ruin the day for him, and he absolutely doesn't want that, not on his wedding day.  I don't see that explanation stopping Evelin at all, because she probably doesn't understand how nasty the SIL can get, and how dedicated she will be to making the day a black cloud of misery for all parties involved.  And even if that were the reason, I would say, he is a grown adult, he has told you he absolutely doesn't want to do something, don't push him to do something he doesn't want to do.  It will only breed resentment and you don't want that, not for these people you don't even know.  Especially when, if you just want them to be involved in your life or even the happiness of your union there are other ways to accomplish it besides having to have them at the wedding ceremony.

[Persnickety1]

Every time I see Mo interacting with Danielle I flash back to a game I played when I was really young, Mouse Trap.

 

Running all those obstacles to get to the piece of cheese in order to "win" the game, although in this case the cheese is the green card.

 

And Danielle and her trainwreck life are one huge obstacle to navigate.

 

On another note, Danny's father makes my blood pressure rise.

 

I've watched this scene a couple of times and it just infuriates me:

 

I never heard him utter a simple "thank you" to Amy when she served him his cup of tea.

 

On top of all other closed-minded, ignorant, racist things he said, that lack of a common decency (saying thank you) was just the proverbial cherry on top.

 

Saying "thank you" should be reflexive in most civilized people.

 

I think, in his bigoted little mind, it was Amy's "duty" to serve him and thus no "thank you" was required.  

 

What an asshole.  

Edited December 2, 2014 by Persnickety1

[RealityGal]

Agree to disagree.  While he doesn't need to get into gory details by any stretch, I believe a future spouse has a right to know what they are marrying into, including how that affects the person's state of mind and who they will be and exposing children to if they start their own family.

she already seems to know how it affects his state of mind, she doesn't need to know what it is to know how it will affect his state of mind, she should be able to see that by how he behaves.  However, I do agree with you about knowing who you can't expose your future children to, I'm 100% with you there.  So yes - agree to agree and disagree :)

Every time I see Mo interacting with Danielle I flash back to a game I played when I was really young, Mouse Trap.

 

Running all those obstacles to get to the piece of cheese in order to "win" the game, although in this case the cheese is the green card.

 

And Danielle and her trainwreck life are one huge obstacle to navigate.

heh, like mousetrap but with a cat named Danielle chasing you!

[funky-rat]

Did I miss something explaining that Justin was abused, or are you simply speculating that based on his reluctance to be close to his family?  He very well may have been, but I think asserting it as a fact is a little bit of a reach without anything to corroborate it.  

No one has said it to be fact.  It's been thought about by several people.  I once said she reminded me of my late mother-in-law who abused my husband (but not his brother) but have also more than once emphatically said that I don't know that Justin was.  But many people think something is "off" with that family.

[gunderda]

I wouldn't be surprised if it's all about the sister in law.  Obviously she has an opinion and big mouth - maybe Justin doesn't want to deal with her. What was the first thing that came out of his friends mouth with Evelin and him had dinner with in the first or second episode? "have you met the sister in law?"  that speaks volumes.  

She probably created a rift between the brothers. Mother was probably trying to be Switzerland but ended up siding more with Justin's brother and wife.  And he knows that if he has a wedding then the SIL will want to run the entire thing and instead of dealing with that, he just doesn't want to invite any of them.

[GracieK]

And let's not forget there may be a huge element of TLC setting it up to seem worse than it is to create a storyline and drama.  Because without it, what really is interesting about watching the two of them?

[Mom2twoNonna2-3]

I've been meaning to chime in for a few episodes about Justin and Evelin. What I recall from his first episode when he was talking to his best friend at the restaurant was the comment that he didn't tell his family first because they would try to talk him out of bringing Evelin here and marrying her and he knew he'd cave. Yes, kind of like better to ask forgiveness than permission, but, in this case, he doesn't need their permission. He knows these people and how they try to control his life or sway him to their viewpoint.

 

I totally see his side. When I was younger, in my first marriage, I was in a similar situation and much like him. I would discuss things with my husband and then go talk to my aunt, who I was very close to. She would voice her views and I'd go home and tell my husband that we were doing things a different way. It's not why I'm divorced from him, but, I'm sure it didn't help. My second husband pointed out what was going on and I made an concerted effort to do the opposite and we are a much stronger team and still going 17 years later. Justin realized that once Evelin was here he would be able to stand up to his family better. Having her next to him gives him the strength and backbone to choose what's right for his "family," (himself and Evelin). He knows that these soul suckers he calls extended family will try to control his life and push their choices on him and he's standing up to them in his own way. Perhaps, he's afraid that if they are invited to the wedding that Darth Jennifer will stand up and object.

 

Team Justin!

[TonyasBlueEyeshado]

Hot beef injection... there's one I'll never erase from my mind's eye...

[Duke2801]

In Tara Ariano's wrap-up she's says Danny's dad is from Pennsylvania. I recently read that Pennsylvania is "two cities with Alabama in between." Exhibit A for this theory is Danny's dad. 

2) Someone should tell Danny's dad about Loving vs. Virginia, a 1967 supreme court decision that made all interracial marriages in all states legal.

 

A lot of these people should think through their decisions.

 

I grew up in western PA and now live in central PA and I can most definitely verify that there is some truth to this statement, unfortunately. Western PA is actually really bad. 

 

Justin's mom made me so angry.  She's ganging up against Justin with Evelin, that's a no-no.  She supports Jake and Darth Jennifer against Justin.  Justin is extremely uncomfortable with his mother.  There are reasons for that.  Justin looks cowed by his mother.  I think she's a mean person.

 

 

Errr....huh?  I thought the 2 of them going dress shopping together was extremely sweet.  I think she seems like a very nice lady, and is happy to have somebody joining the family who isn't an evil, resting and active bitch-faced fishwife like her other DIL.  I did not see it as them "ganging up on Justin" at all. I saw it as Evelin developing her own relationship with her new MIL, separate from Justin.

[joanofarch4]

I don't agree that Justin needs to write a seven-volume book for Evelin as to why he's not close to his family.  He's as much as said that they've interfered with his past relationships, which may be why he's still single at 30-almost-40.  He wants time alone, away from the family, to grow this relationship and then wants a private ceremony; he's willing to invite them to the reception.  I don't get along with my sister-in-law, but if I had to spell out exactly why, it would take a year, and no one would probably understand afterwards.  "Because" should be good enough for someone just coming on the scene who is supposed to trust her fiancé explicitly.  Support your man, Evelin!

 

Agree that the "pouting by the pool" is her scheme to work on the mission, as she promised Martha.  As I said, she's getting annoying...

[Duke2801]

30-almost-40

 

 

Is 34 really almost 40? 

[ChiCricket]

I'm also rooting more and more for Daya despite my earlier misgivings.  My guess is with many others that Sue was jilted for someone of the "Asian Persuasion".  I didn't think people still talked like that.  Sheesh.

You'd be surprised. My sister recently came to live with me (we're both in our early 60's) and she still calls Asian people "oriental" which I have been told is offensive. I worked in a pharmacy as a tech with a Korean-American pharmacist, and that's who told me (I had no clue before.) She (gently) told me "oriental is a rug, I am Asian."  No matter how many times I mention it, my sister still says it (probably to get my goat.) Probably Sue never had anyone tell her not to say that (or just doesn't give a damn, like my sister.)

Edited December 3, 2014 by ChiCricket

[GracieK]

It's probably not right for anyone to generalize even based on their own experiences, however there is obvious concern to motive in the whole "mail order bride" type market.  The thing with Sue is she expressed her concern to her friend, Brett, and that's as far as she should have gone.  He is an adult and made his decision, and from that point, because he is her friend, she should have simply been polite to Daya.  And I say this as someone who isn't Daya's biggest fan.  

[cooksdelight]

I agree that Sue overstepped her boundaries. Even Brett looked concerned when she wanted to talk to Daya alone. Nosy old biddie, was my thought.