S02.E01: Elven Kings Under the Sky

[paulvdb]

Quote

Sauron bargains with Adar. The Stranger and Nori venture into new lands. The Three Elven Rings face judgment.

Premiere date: August 29, 2024

[AnimeMania]

  

[Affogato]

I don’t think i’m going to watch all of these at one sitting. I will spread it out. 

[Anduin]

This was the best of the three, IMO. It felt the most Tolkieny. I could imagine Tolkien writing some of the dialogue. And outside the big actiony episode 6, Gennifer Hutchison also wrote my favourite of season 1, ep 2. Looks like she might be the best writer the show has.

So that Sauron at the start, anyone else think he looked like Rik Mayall? But present day Sauron, swearing allegiance to the lord of Mordor. Y'know, he might just have ideas about who the lord of Mordor is. Just a hunch. Anyway, I'm not sure the new Adar is up to the previous one's standards, but he isn't bad.

Yay, Poppy's back! You can't have Frodo without Sam, can you? And the song came back! Not just back, it actually had meaning. Love it. :)

There was something about Galadriel, Elrond, and Gil-galad, wasn't there? Elrond doesn't trust the three rings. He's wrong, but fair enough. He hasn't read the books yet.

[thuganomics85]

The Ring of Power has returned and it continues to be a strange little show, where there are a lot of elements that are top notch (the visual effects, locations, acting, etc.), but just still leaves me cold for whatever reason.  Can't say any other show gets a reaction from me like this one, so I guess that counts for something?

Took me a few minutes to figure out the opening act was actually a flashback to how Sauron ended up on the driftwood and into Galadriel's path.  As for present Sauron, well, he certainly seems to know how to maneuver his way through things.  Pledges his loyalty to the "Lord of Mordor" in order to appease Adar (who is unaware of his true identity) and is now off to manipulate Celebrimbor to accomplish his goals.  Added bonus: he keeps his word and does kill his captor, who was terrorizing him that entire time.  Well done, buddy!

New Adar is okay, but I'm still disappointed since I found Joseph Mawle to be one of the better performers last season.

I guess I get Elrond's concerns, but considering that the other option was going to be the elves all bailing Middle Earth, I'm unsure why he was so hellbent on not going through with the ring plan.  Hell, he literally jumped off a waterfall to try and prevent it!  But now the three rings are on the fingers of Galadriel, Gil-Galad, and this new Cirdan character (Ben Daniels!), and he continues to be very unhappy about it.  Hmm...

The stuff with The Stranger and Nori was kind of dull, but maybe Poppy will give this particular plot a shot of energy.

A lot of scenes looked extremely dark for me.  Had similar problems with The Wheel of Time, so maybe it's an Amazon show thing.

Agree that Gennifer Hutchison seems to be one of the better writers here.  Wouldn't expect anything less from a Breaking Bad/Better Call Saul alumni!

[Shrek]

1 hour ago, thuganomics85 said:

 

A lot of scenes looked extremely dark for me.  Had similar problems with The Wheel of Time, so maybe it's an Amazon show thing.

 

Seems to be a thing since that awful GOT episode when nobody could see what the hell was going on.

I was watching something the a couple of weeks ago, can't remember what, and gave up after a couple of episodes because everything seemed so dark. It's not only Amazon doing it either & it's awful for anyone who has no eyesight problems & older peeps like myself have no chance.

Stop doing it whoever things it's a good idea, I shouldn't have to work so hard to watch your series.

[Harvey]

Wow, that opening flashback was darn cool. The part where Adar turned the crown and stabbed Sauron with it was such a twist. Really amazing.

[NeenerNeener]

5 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

New Adar is okay, but I'm still disappointed since I found Joseph Mawle to be one of the better performers last season.

I haven't been keeping up with casting news; why did they recast Adar? It doesn't look like Mawle had all that much other work since Season 1 so he was probably available.

[Affogato]

4 hours ago, NeenerNeener said:

I haven't been keeping up with casting news; why did they recast Adar? It doesn't look like Mawle had all that much other work since Season 1 so he was probably available.

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/why-adar-actor-recast-rings-110548348.html
 

If you scroll down there is the original social media post where the actor explains he wants to do something else. 

[Affogato]

I thought they really leaned into the darkness of the orcs and the unearthly luminance surrounding the elves. I thought it was ine of the better things.  I wonder if the human world will also have a different look/lighting. I could see what was going on clearly and I have an old television. 
 

I liked the beginning, tying in bits of story. Sauron’s slimey political speech. The Orcs rejecting Sauron.  Saurons unsavory rebirth.

overall It is still not as compelling as one would hope.  I am not sure how to ‘fix’ it. It is too bad they lost two of their more charismatic actors, not that charisma can entirely carry a topheavy script. 
 

i’m still rooting for Galadriel/Sauron. I’m betting she would make him her bitch, eventually. Galaron? Sauradriel?  There will be fan fiction, but seriously i think Elrond is off about the rings because he doesn’t trust Galadriel. I don’t think he is wrong at this point, and she will do some stupid things to regain that trust.  I think it will take a while. Maybe not for an age.  The other elves are quick because of desperation or possibly naivety. They will not send her to the west now that she has the ring, though. 
 

Edited August 30 by Affogato

[Rushmoras]

Well, I'll be damned, this episode was pretty good.

[PurpleTentacle]

On 8/29/2024 at 5:43 PM, thuganomics85 said:

Took me a few minutes to figure out the opening act was actually a flashback to how Sauron ended up on the driftwood and into Galadriel's path.

I got that it was a flashback pretty quick, but what took me by surprise was that Sauron having been killed by his troops happened like yesterday? I thought that was hundreds of years ago. Or did he spend hundreds of years as sludge? In that case what took him so long to reform?

On 8/29/2024 at 5:43 PM, thuganomics85 said:

Pledges his loyalty to the "Lord of Mordor" in order to appease Adar (who is unaware of his true identity)

At that point all of Adar's alarm bells should have been going off. How dumb can you be to not see what he was doing in that moment? They told him to pledge his loyalty to Adar and he is all like "oh yeah I pledge my loyalty to the lord of Mordor, wink wink, nudge nudge."

On 8/29/2024 at 5:43 PM, thuganomics85 said:

The stuff with The Stranger and Nori was kind of dull, but maybe Poppy will give this particular plot a shot of energy.

Can we just start calling him Gandalf? Keeping up the stranger thing seems a bit weird at this point. Wasn't it even confirmed last season that it's Gandalf? Or was it just all but confirmed?

20 hours ago, Affogato said:

If you scroll down there is the original social media post where the actor explains he wants to do something else. 

Good for him.

[peridot]

I barely remember what happened last season, but this was a good premiere.  I was not expecting to see Ben Daniels - I just saw him in Interview with the Vampire, he's had a busy year!

I have to know what exactly Sauron is.  I wasn't expecting him to reform from sludge and devour any living thing he comes across.  I wasn't sure if that was the main Sauron actor or not.  Silly me, I thought he was sincere about not being evil.  Feel horrible about the guy he abandoned.

I don't blame Elrond at all for not trusting anything that came from the sphere of Sauron.  I hate that Galadriel wasn't punished in anyway for trying to hide the fact that Halbrand was Sauron.

 

[Camera One]

The season premiere seemed par on course from last season, not any better or much worse.  The episode did feel like it was walking around in circles for the most part (literally, in one subplot).

I don't fault Elrond for not trusting the rings.  Gil-galad was still so unlikeable and Galadriel was still making the same old vow to destroy Sauron, so not much progress there.  Too bad she didn't come clean to Celebrimbor in person, eh?  Cirdan and Galadriel looked hypnotized by the rings.  The whole subplot felt like we were watching characters making bad decisions and playing right into Sauron's hands.  I'm worried it will feel like that for the entire series, actually.

The extended flashback of how Halbrand came to be on the raft dragged a bit.  Why would he be suddenly considering being good after being betrayed by Adar.  Felt convoluted to have him getting himself captured by Adar and them "convincing" him to let him go.  

As pointless as the Nori/Stranger subplot was, it provided the only lighter moments in the overall depressing story.  I wouldn't say it was overall enjoyable to watch, but I will keep on.  The cinematography is really very beautiful.  

Edited August 30 by Camera One

[silverstream]

No matter what else happens this season, it's already going down as a win for me. They'd have to really mess up to sour the scene where the Sauron-goo oozes itself onto the street and is run over by a cart. Never not going to think about that whenever he pops on screen - 10/10, full marks, will watch again.

[Affogato]

1 hour ago, peridot said:

I barely remember what happened last season, but this was a good premiere.  I was not expecting to see Ben Daniels - I just saw him in Interview with the Vampire, he's had a busy year!

I have to know what exactly Sauron is.  I wasn't expecting him to reform from sludge and devour any living thing he comes across.  I wasn't sure if that was the main Sauron actor or not.  Silly me, I thought he was sincere about not being evil.  Feel horrible about the guy he abandoned.

I don't blame Elrond at all for not trusting anything that came from the sphere of Sauron.  I hate that Galadriel wasn't punished in anyway for trying to hide the fact that Halbrand was Sauron.

 

Sauron is a Maiar, one of the first ones created to help shape the world. So in fact a fallen angel. Like..cough…you know. 

[Haleth]

Ok, before I say anything else, the branch the Stranger is dreaming about is so Gandalf’s staff. Like it’s going to be a surprise when he finds it.

As for the episode, as a loooong time fan of the Sil it makes me uncomfortable that the characters are so, well, uncharacteristic. I guess I’m going to have to look at it like any history - the truth was a lot messier than what we read in the books.  Sanitized for your reading pleasure.

The settings were beautiful (ugh, but so much CGI), the music was lovely, and the writers did their best to make the dialog sound like the movies.  I didn’t hate it.

Círdan!  Yay!

But yes, it was too dang dark!

Edited August 31 by Haleth

[Harvey]

9 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

I got that it was a flashback pretty quick, but what took me by surprise was that Sauron having been killed by his troops happened like yesterday? I thought that was hundreds of years ago. Or did he spend hundreds of years as sludge? In that case what took him so long to reform?

Sauron was in that goo form for 1000 years. I don't think it was his "choice" per se, it was just that when he was murdered he sustained huge wounds which drained his energy and it took a long time to regain his power. The showrunners did something really cool here, which they explained in an interview:

Do you see that rock that becomes big? It is meant to symbolize the passage of time. They grow very slowly and a fan calculated that for 1 to grow that much it takes about 1000 years.

The interview where the showrunners talk about it:

Quote

"we felt like it was an enormous opportunity to take you on an emotional journey with Sauron and help you feel that — for potentially hundreds of years — he had been this creature. There’s this one dissolve where you see the stalagmites have grown, you’re supposed to get to the sense that a geological amount of time has passed which Sauron spent at the bottom of the world."

source: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-features/rings-of-power-season-2-premiere-interview-sauron-1235985350/

 

[Haleth]

I might have noticed the stalagmites if it hadn't been so dark!

[Camera One]

The change in the geology to show the passage of time was a great idea, but I didn't see it either, so I wouldn't have known without reading about it.

As for the showrunner's intention of taking us "an emotional journey with Sauron and help you feel that — for potentially hundreds of years — he had been this creature", I'm not sure I was moved to any emotion.  Are we supposed to feel bad for him?  Goo Sauron flopping off a rock was funny, though.  

As usual, time and distance continue to be a weakness for this show and it confused me.  Elrond got to Gil-galad minutes before Galadriel but it seemed like they had a long conversation already and Gil-galad had already made up his mind about the rings. How far away are the Grey Havens from the trees at Lindon?  One moment, we saw Cirdan putting on the ring on the boat, and then next time we see them, everyone was back under the trees for a going-away ceremony and Circan was a surprise guest.   The Stranger and the Harfoot friend (who recently left the Harfoots since she was able to tell Nori how everyone was) sang the song, walked a little and "We're in Rhun now".  Sauron got to Celebrimbor before the messenger from Gil-galad, so is Eregion that much closer to Mordor?  The scope of the world seems small when travelling seems so quick without reference to time.

Edited August 31 by Camera One

[Rushmoras]

I thought the change of time was evident from the subtitle The Dawn of the Second Age... If my memory serves me, in first season, Galadriel narrated that she been hunting Sauron's forces for centuries before she even met Halbrand...

[dkb]

The episode was pretty good.

All I could think about during the Sauron ooze scenes was that Sauron is Venom?!! 

[PurpleTentacle]

13 hours ago, Harvey said:

Do you see that rock that becomes big?

No I did not see that stalagmite and I suspect most people didn't. It's basically a wall of black when not viewed in the most optimal of conditions.

If showrunners have to tell viewers in interviews what was happening, it's probably a problem and I don't think it's really cool.

Also mighty convenient and boring that he reformed just yesterday, for reasons I guess, after sloshing around for a thousand years. But whatevs. It's not like that's the biggest problem with the writing here...

Anyway, thank you for clarifying. At least now I know what the intention was.

22 hours ago, Affogato said:

Sauron is a Maiar, one of the first ones created to help shape the world. So in fact a fallen angel. Like..cough…you know. 

Well, the other ones aren't so much fallen... except Saruman. But that comes a few thousand years later, or 20 years ago in a Peter Jackson movie, depending on your perspective. (just going by cinematic universe here)

 

 

Edited August 31 by PurpleTentacle

[baldryanr]

23 hours ago, Camera One said:

Why would he be suddenly considering being good after being betrayed by Adar.

More like he was realizing how much more effective he'd be if he convincingly faked it instead of trying to order people (and orcs) around.  The direct approach didn't exactly work out well for him.

23 hours ago, peridot said:

I hate that Galadriel wasn't punished in anyway for trying to hide the fact that Halbrand was Sauron.

Not just unpunished, but allowed to wear one of the rings!  Elves value wisdom and patience, two qualities Galadriel doesn't have right now.

[PurpleTentacle]

I think I should elaborate on my statement above that Sauron having reformed yesterday is boring. How much more interesting would it make him as a villain if he had reformed a long time ago, but used that time to plot and scheme, to amass more influence and power over centuries, after he had failed with the direct approach. Like where did he get that symbol of the royal family that died out hundreds of years ago? Maybe he was invloved with them way back, or even ended their line to sow chaos in the south lands, that he could eventually exploit.

Nope, he reformed yesterday and got that symbol from a dude who's family served the royal family hundreds of years ago and who still carries it with him. Riveting and so believable! /s

On top of that of course the convenience that he just ran into Galadriel, a high ranking general of the elves, like a day after he had reformed. It would make him a much more interesting villain if he had arranged that somehow, after searching for an opportunity for years. But nope, most massive coincidence ever.

[Affogato]

3 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

Well, the other ones aren't so much fallen... except Saruman. But that comes a few thousand years later, or 20 years ago in a Peter Jackson movie, depending on your perspective. (just going by cinematic universe here)

 

 

No. To be clear, I am not an expert on the background books. So, to be vague—- as I understand the Valar are pagan gods, numerous, and have Maiar as servants. There are many maiar in the stories. Wizards. Balrogs. Elronds great grandma (not sure how many greats). Although Tolkein was a Christian he believed this needed to be a pagan world. 
 

The Maiar who takes the name Sauron switched his allegiance to Morgoth, a valar (originally Melkor and the source of all evil). Melkor is destroyed at great cost. Morgoth is probably more naturally Lucifer. But in the show Sauron is definitely playing that part. 
 

at the end of the Lord of the rings the Maiar withdraw and leave the peoples of middle earth alone. 

Edited September 1 by Affogato

[baldryanr]

9 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

On top of that of course the convenience that he just ran into Galadriel, a high ranking general of the elves, like a day after he had reformed. It would make him a much more interesting villain if he had arranged that somehow, after searching for an opportunity for years. But nope, most massive coincidence ever.

There is no possible way (other than God Eru did it) to justify running into Galadriel in the middle of the ocean.

[Grimnar]

Kind of mixed feelings about first episode. It think it isn't improved much from last season.

Nori, Stranger, Poppy storyline was just teased here but I don't know, I kind of imagined Rhun as steppes instead of desert.

Not fan of Sauron from the flashback. He came across like he has no charisma and wasn't very persuasive or intimidating, where I would think that orcs could follow this person. Wonder what was goal of the people on the ship(Valinor or Numenor)?

There wasn't much from Mordor storyline but Adar's actor so far isn't as good as previous. I though that Sauron would challenge Adar in different way and not to just submitt and pledge allegiance to Adar when he will do the same to Pharazon in later seasons(is Sauron one trick pony?).

Didn't like that Three rings has same "corrupting" effect on people(elves) as One ring. And that Galadriel(especially after she helped Sauron) and Círdan just grab Nenya and Narya and it is theirs, was awkward. I hoped that we will get some explanation why the tree is so important for elves but it was just tool and it will not be probably mentioned again. Gil-Galad is missing gravitas as High King of the Elves.

Wonder how they will play in next episode meeting between Sauron and Celebrimbor.

[Glade]

They manage to incorporate so much ugliness and graphic violence (slave camps, people eating cockroaches and rats...) into this show, so far beyond the realism of the Jackson films.  I just can't get very interested, it feels like dragging out the inevitable as long as humanly possible, and everything has to be turned into a reference; Sauron has to come back like Gollumn. 

[tennisgurl]

It looks like this season is going to feel a lot like last season for me, although it seems like we might be looking at a bit more action and less wandering around* in various locations. We have lots of really great stuff mixed in there with a lot of meh stuff with a bit of stupid thrown in there for flavor. I am certainly in for the season, I will probably try to space it out a bit, its confusing enough to follow all of this lore without everything becoming a blur. 

Glad to see this show embracing the franchises favorite thing: Slow dramatic shots of rings falling and people putting them on or taking them off. 

I truly had no idea that Sludgeron was supposed to be slowing a slow passage of time, I thought that it had just happened before the show started on that boat. I also get that its supposed to be really dramatic, and the big stabbing certainly was, but Sludgeron is just hilarious, I'm sorry. I had no idea that the Lord of Darkness was really the Middle Earth version of Ivan Ooze. 

The visuals on this show are so stunning in their beauty and ruin, I loved the ethereal light with the elves compared with the dark grimy holes the Orcs were in, for all this shows flaws you can see that budget being put to good use in every shot.

Edited September 5 by tennisgurl

[magdalene]

I don't know if I should even admit to this because it makes me come across as a tad shallow, erm but I have stuck with this show mainly because I find the actor who plays Sauron lovely and very attractive.  I guess Sauron is supposed to be attractive and a good manipulator. So, yeah me?

I hope Sauron doesn't turn into the evil eye for a long time because I want Charlie Vickers to keep playing him.

[Anduin]

11 minutes ago, magdalene said:

I don't know if I should even admit to this because it makes me come across as a tad shallow, erm but I have stuck with this show mainly because I find the actor who plays Sauron lovely and very attractive.  I guess Sauron is supposed to be attractive and a good manipulator. So, yeah me?

I hope Sauron doesn't turn into the evil eye for a long time because I want Charlie Vickers to keep playing him.

What about fully armoured Sauron? How sexy is that version?

[magdalene]

3 hours ago, Anduin said:

What about fully armoured Sauron? How sexy is that version?

As long as Vickers is in the armour? And I stuck around through the goopy version.

Believe me when I watched the movies back in the day it would never have occurred to me to find Sauron attractive. It's the actor. If they were to change the actor for good that would be the end of this attraction for me. I am just hoping I am not the only one so afflicted, ha.

[Anduin]

33 minutes ago, magdalene said:

As long as Vickers is in the armour? And I stuck around through the goopy version.

Believe me when I watched the movies back in the day it would never have occurred to me to find Sauron attractive. It's the actor. If they were to change the actor for good that would be the end of this attraction for me. I am just hoping I am not the only one so afflicted, ha.

So the one at the start didn't work for you? Don't worry, we all like what we like and there's no changing it. :)

[Haleth]

I'd say Charlie Vickers really did his homework to copy all Vigo as Aragorn's mannerisms.  Pretty subtle way to get the audience to fall in love with the character before finding out we've all been duped.

[magdalene]

15 hours ago, Anduin said:

So the one at the start didn't work for you? Don't worry, we all like what we like and there's no changing it. :)

Oh, I thought that actor gave a fine cameo performance as the previous version of Sauron.

[quarks]

1. Sauron: I am a master manipulator.

Also Sauron: Except when speaking to disgruntled Orcs that I'm trying to use to conquer the entire world.

Also also Sauron: Fortunately, spending some time as Evil Sludge and wandering the world in raggedly clothing has taught me to be slightly less "hi, I plan to kill you as part of my world domination plan, that's ok, right?" or at least when talking to somewhat overly trusting humans. Unless said human is named Waldreg.

2. I'll admit it: I did enjoy watching Sauron turn into sludge and go flop flop flop flop down the mountain before heading back to his usual killing and evil stuff. I also cracked up when his new friend was all, you can choose good, and Sauron was like, ok, sure, but also, I can choose not to save your life and instead just take your pouch. Such a petty thing.

3. Also, I am going to join the ooh, yes, this Sauron - the Halbrand Sauron - is hot and sexy even when doing petty theft group. Glad it's not just me.

4. Cirdan! Making boats! And then helping to restore magic trees, presumably at least partly so he can continue to have more wood for more boats! Or perhaps I misjudge him.

5. Elrond! Jumping off cliffs! Which would maybe have been just a touch more suspenseful had I not known that he's an Elf who will survive this show, but still, Elrond! Jumping off cliffs!

6. Kinda surprised that Poppy joined Nori and Mr. Stranger Dude so quickly - especially since I was under the impression at the end of last season that the remaining Harfoots really needed Poppy, but, hey, Nori and Mr. Stranger Dude need her too. So that was nice.

7. Gil-galad. Sigh. Character still isn't working for me, but...well, the show has an entire season to fix this. Let's see if it can.

 

 

[Camera One]

10 hours ago, quarks said:

6. Kinda surprised that Poppy joined Nori and Mr. Stranger Dude so quickly - especially since I was under the impression at the end of last season that the remaining Harfoots really needed Poppy

I vaguely remember Poppy was the one pulling her own cart solo at the back, so she would probably be "left behind" at some point anyway.

[quarks]

19 minutes ago, Camera One said:

I vaguely remember Poppy was the one pulling her own cart solo at the back, so she would probably be "left behind" at some point anyway.

She was, but she was also -- apparently - the only one capable of reading the map. The others didn't seem to know how.

She also, it seems, took the map. Maybe she figures that the rest of the group have wandered that route enough that they should know it by now.

[JustHereForFood]

On 8/31/2024 at 10:31 AM, Harvey said:

Sauron was in that goo form for 1000 years. I don't think it was his "choice" per se, it was just that when he was murdered he sustained huge wounds which drained his energy and it took a long time to regain his power. The showrunners did something really cool here, which they explained in an interview:

Do you see that rock that becomes big? It is meant to symbolize the passage of time. They grow very slowly and a fan calculated that for 1 to grow that much it takes about 1000 years.

The interview where the showrunners talk about it:

 

I didn't realize that. Does that mean that Adar is also thousand years old? Could he not have chilled a bit during that time? 

[Harvey]

7 hours ago, JustHereForFood said:

I didn't realize that. Does that mean that Adar is also thousand years old? Could he not have chilled a bit during that time? 

It is now confirmed Adar has no chill.

[Ottis]

Wow, people posting here know WAY more than I do about the lore. It's all I can do to decipher the time jumps and "who's Sauron now?!" But if goo and Adar live for 1,000s of years, and so do the orc prison wardens, and the elves, then maybe a 1,000-year struggle isn't actually a big deal. A weekend is an eternity to a fruit fly, but not to a human.

I hate time jumps. I do. They seem so unnecessary.