S01.E08: The Verdict

[AnimeMania]

(Season Finale)

The truth behind Carolyn’s murder is revealed.

Premiere Date: July 24, 2024    Apple TV+    

[EtheltoTillie]

Am I the first to post about this bizarre finish?  Since I thought this series was poorly written, I just didn’t buy the ending at all. Seems like a twist for the sake of a twist. 

[EtheltoTillie]

Please explain for this dummy:  1) why did she bring the poker to Tommy’s house?  I really don’t understand. 2) what was the purpose of hiding the bicycle?  Rusty thought the son did it?  But he didn’t actually think so, according to the finale.  So just a giant red herring? 

[Anela]

55 minutes ago, EtheltoTillie said:

Please explain for this dummy:  1) why did she bring the poker to Tommy’s house?  I really don’t understand. 2) what was the purpose of hiding the bicycle?  Rusty thought the son did it?  But he didn’t actually think so, according to the finale.  So just a giant red herring? 

I haven't watched, so I looked it up. This article said she did that, because he was accusing her father of something he didn't do.

https://variety.com/2024/tv/news/presumed-innocent-killer-revealed-finale-recap-1236081878/

[Spartan Girl]

I knew it was going to be one of the kids.

Barbara should have taken that bag and her kids and left Rusty. He had the audacity to accuse her of being the killer and acting like she was a lunatic after everything he did to her?! And he wants to cover everything up and go on with their lives with nothing happened?! That “happy” Thanksgiving ending scene pissed me off so much. Rusty may finally feel some guilt, but he still didn’t get the comeuppance he deserved.

Speaking of audacity, Carolyn really thought it was a good idea to tell Rusty’s clearly emotional teenage daughter that she was having his child?! She wanted Rusty to stop stalking her, but she was keeping his baby despite the fact she had zero interest in being a mother to the child she already had? Not saying she deserved what she got, but I didn’t feel that sorry for her either.

This finale was a mess.

[endure]

Well, that was certainly random.  No idea why Barbara hadn’t already left with her suitcase.  Crazy series.

[bosawks]

I kind of have to admire a show that so clearly did not care if viewers actively disliked almost all of the characters.

It was a nutty viewing experience.

[Spartan Girl]

You know what really pissed me off about Rusty automatically assuming that Barbara killed Carolyn on the night he found her dead? Other the condescending way he tried to present himself as the noble man covering up a murder to protect his family?! He didn’t have a shred of proof, except for maybe his belief in the Angry Black Woman Trope or Bitches Be Crazy. Putting a tracker on her car doesn’t prove anything with two teenage kids that can drive in the house.

Which is another reason this finale made me so mad: while it did call Rusty on his own crap, it still played not the same sexist tropes just like the Fatal Attraction series. Carolyn was a slutty home wrecker and a terrible mom. Jaden was the unstable, emotional Daddy’s Girl. And even poor Barbara couldn’t break free of being the dutiful wife and mother, despite Rusty gaslighting her into believing that it was her fault he couldn’t keep it in his pants.

[ribboninthesky1]

1 hour ago, bosawks said:

I kind of have to admire a show that so clearly did not care if viewers actively disliked almost all of the characters.

Right? I liked Raymond's wife. They certainly leaned into the "nagging wife" bit (though I almost always agreed with her POV).  In truth, I was kind of rooting for her to leave Raymond as much as I wanted Barbara to leave Rusty. Let the man have his existential crisis alone and go enjoy your own life, Lorraine. 

4 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Barbara should have taken that bag and her kids and left Rusty.

For me, staying for the kids makes sense when they're younger.  But teenagers? I oscillated between disgust and pity for Barbara, and ultimately landed at disgust.  The series tried and failed to flesh her out, because I really didn't understand her at all. Especially knowing the damage that Rusty's affair and obsession had on the kids. 

16 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Other the condescending way he tried to present himself as the noble man covering up a murder to protect his family?!

Yeah the 180 on him trying to "protect" Barbara really fell flat when 90% of his scenes before the end showed him as a selfish asshole with anger management problems. 

I assumed it was the daughter a couple of episodes back because she was the only family member that wasn't shown as "suspicious."  It still made no sense because the police only searched Rusty's vehicle? Why wouldn't they have searched both? Not to mention the fact the Rusty managed to tie up Carolyn's body without getting a spec of blood or fiber on him?  And I was laughing at how Jaden conveniently knew where Tommy Molto lived to leave the poker? 🙄 This was a mess of a series.

[Litnit]

So I guess the moral of the story is, your love for your child can supersede any rationality, like a. My kid killed someone. B. That person was someone I loved. C. I went through a murder trial as a result.

Entertaining but it fell short at the end. I don't know how they just carry on after this.

[TheOtherOne]

1 hour ago, Spartan Girl said:

You know what really pissed me off about Rusty automatically assuming that Barbara killed Carolyn on the night he found her dead? Other the condescending way he tried to present himself as the noble man covering up a murder to protect his family?! He didn’t have a shred of proof, except for maybe his belief in the Angry Black Woman Trope or Bitches Be Crazy. Putting a tracker on her car doesn’t prove anything with two teenage kids that can drive in the house.

Rusty is a d*ck, but I don't believe anyone would want to believe their children are equally likely to be guilty of murder as their spouse. Spouse is a much more automatic, and reassuring, assumption than child.

For an egotist, thinking your spouse killed someone because of you is ego-feeding. Thinking your child could have done it simply exposes one's failures as a parent and a human being.

[Spartan Girl]

45 minutes ago, Litnit said:

So I guess the moral of the story is, your love for your child can supersede any rationality, like a. My kid killed someone. B. That person was someone I loved. C. I went through a murder trial as a result.

Obsession isn't the same thing as love, but I digress.

[EtheltoTillie]

9 hours ago, Anela said:

I haven't watched, so I looked it up. This article said she did that, because he was accusing her father of something he didn't do.

https://variety.com/2024/tv/news/presumed-innocent-killer-revealed-finale-recap-1236081878/

Even so, how did she think it would help?   Well, they didn't really explain that.  She was just a hotheaded kid.  Now they'll have to protect her for the rest of her life.

[EtheltoTillie]

And live with the knowledge of her crazed act.

[Xantar]

They say the eight deadliest words are, “I don’t care what happens to these people.” 

I just watched this whole series in two days. I think it works much better that way because it dragged a lot in parts. I never saw the 1990 movie, but my understanding is the victim and the wife were very underwritten. If this series was supposed to flesh them out, it really failed. There was no sense of who the victim was as a character, and I got very little glimpse into the interior life of the wife. Why exactly did the whole family stick by Rusty’s side this whole time? It’s really obvious that this is an artifact of 1987 when the most important thing of all was protecting the man  

Also, what exactly does Rusty do now? Is he still a prosecutor? How can he possibly still work there?

I knew by the fourth episode that I was not going to like the series as a whole, but masochist that I am, I stuck through to find out how it ends. I didn’t know what the ending in the book or the movie was, so I guess I was a little surprised. And Jake Gyllenhaal really did deliver on his closing statement. But man, that whole thing was unpleasant. Even the medical examiner was an asshole!

[Dminches]

I thought it was reasonable that Rusty thought his wife did it because he probably saw the 1990 movie. 
 

[EtheltoTillie]

1 hour ago, Xantar said:

They say the eight deadliest words are, “I don’t care what happens to these people.” 

I just watched this whole series in two days. I think it works much better that way because it dragged a lot in parts. I never saw the 1990 movie, but my understanding is the victim and the wife were very underwritten. If this series was supposed to flesh them out, it really failed. There was no sense of who the victim was as a character, and I got very little glimpse into the interior life of the wife. Why exactly did the whole family stick by Rusty’s side this whole time? It’s really obvious that this is an artifact of 1987 when the most important thing of all was protecting the man  

Also, what exactly does Rusty do now? Is he still a prosecutor? How can he possibly still work there?

I knew by the fourth episode that I was not going to like the series as a whole, but masochist that I am, I stuck through to find out how it ends. I didn’t know what the ending in the book or the movie was, so I guess I was a little surprised. And Jake Gyllenhaal really did deliver on his closing statement. But man, that whole thing was unpleasant. Even the medical examiner was an asshole!

The medical examiner is also on Blue Bloods, as Jamie's boss.  He's a nicer guy on that show. 

[endure]

12 hours ago, EtheltoTillie said:

Please explain for this dummy:  1) why did she bring the poker to Tommy’s house?  I really don’t understand. 2) what was the purpose of hiding the bicycle?  Rusty thought the son did it?  But he didn’t actually think so, according to the finale.  So just a giant red herring? 

The whole series was just bad, even ok actors couldn’t give it life.  And why would she even tell the daughter she was pg when she hadn’t told the Dad, just a crappy series pretending to be clever.

[EtheltoTillie]

2 minutes ago, endure said:

The whole series was just bad, even ok actors couldn’t give it life.  And why would she even tell the daughter she was pg when she hadn’t told the Dad, just a crappy series pretending to be clever.

Agree.  It really felt lifeless.  That is the best way to describe it.  I kept watching out of curiosity, but I always had only half my attention on it. 

[Dminches]

It is a shame the story was so weak since the cast was solid, including brothers-in-law JG and PS. 

[Irlandesa]

The best thing about the series was how it leaned into Rusty as a psychopath in this final episode.  I haven't loved Jake's flat affect for most of this series but both his summation and the confrontation scene with Barbara were excellent.

I'm less enthused about everything else.  There felt like so many loose ends.  It both tried to be modern (cell phone data!) and yet retro (no DNA anywhere.)

I also didn't feel like the "not guilty" verdict felt realistic.  Didn't they prove that Rusty was there that night?  That he was obsessed with Caroline?  That she was carrying his baby?  Sure, it was circumstantial but when you add the circumstances with the fact that he wanted to control the case from the beginning, I would have likely voted guilty.

It's why I think they could have done so much better based on the source material.  Spoiler for movie/book talk but it's not super specific so you won't really spoil either by reading.

Spoiler

The movie and book did a much better job of showing how multiple choices and situations led to the book/movie verdict vs. Rusty wowing the jury with a better closing.

 

[bilgistic]

@oceanblue, would you mind spoiler tagging your post since it refers to the movie? It goes against the spoiler rules for this forum. Thank you!

Edited July 25 by bilgistic

[EtheltoTillie]

Or move to the movie comparison thread.

[topanga]

On 7/24/2024 at 5:44 AM, Spartan Girl said:

I knew it was going to be one of the kids.

You did? I suspected the son for a minute because of the bicycle, but that seemed too obvious. So I suspected Barbara instead. 

Jaden being the murderer seems like a cheat. She was way too good an actress for a teenage girl. Her genuine surprise about the affair and the baby? The way she talked to her dad about taking a plea? I hate it when there are NO clues about who the villain is. Or maybe there were clues that I simply missed. 

[RedInk]

On 7/24/2024 at 9:33 AM, ribboninthesky1 said:

I assumed it was the daughter a couple of episodes back because she was the only family member that wasn't shown as "suspicious."  

So did I, and for the same reasons. The writers worked so hard to make the the case that it could be literally everyone connected to the victim, and the daughter was the only throwaway character (but I did think it was the prosecutor who tied her up to frame Rusty). These people were so repulsive, and I suppose that was intentional, but why? Who likes a murder mystery where the accused, the accuser and the dead are all so gross? Even the wife was spineless and resolved to put her sociopath husband over her children. 
 

Spoiler

Setting up the wife-as-killer reveal (following the movie), only to switch to the daughter must have seemed like a clever twist in the writer’s room, but it was lazy nonsense. 

I wish Barbara had killed Rusty. I’d watch that sequel. 

Edited July 26 by RedInk

[Bluesky]

I didnt like Rusty and his family so I’d hoped they would find him guilty.  Instead it was his teenager who took a sharp  steel object and bludgeoned a woman to death.  Their daughter is a psychopath who will probably kill again but let’s pretend it never happened.  Rusty has some of that in him too.  

[Spartan Girl]

One review pointed out how the third act twist was unfair to Carolyn, as it suddenly had her doing a 180 of insisting that she was going to have to stay in the family’s lives right after she told Jaden that her father was the one that wouldn’t leave her alone. Which is really stupid because why tell her about the baby before she told Rusty?! And why would she even keep the baby when it was pretty obvious that she put her focus on her career more than the child she already had?!

And in the end her death doesn’t even matter anyway because the main takeaway of the final scene is that Rusty is “protecting” his family. 🙄

 

[MamaMax]

3 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

One review pointed out how the third act twist was unfair to Carolyn, as it suddenly had her doing a 180 of insisting that she was going to have to stay in the family’s lives right after she told Jaden that her father was the one that wouldn’t leave her alone. Which is really stupid because why tell her about the baby before she told Rusty?! And why would she even keep the baby when it was pretty obvious that she put her focus on her career more than the child she already had?!

And in the end her death doesn’t even matter anyway because the main takeaway of the final scene is that Rusty is “protecting” his family. 🙄

 

and why would you want to have the baby of a man who is stalking you? 

 

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, MamaMax said:

and why would you want to have the baby of a man who is stalking you? 

 

Seriously!!!!!

[endure]

22 hours ago, Bluesky said:

I didnt like Rusty and his family so I’d hoped they would find him guilty.  Instead it was his teenager who took a sharp  steel object and bludgeoned a woman to death.  Their daughter is a psychopath who will probably kill again but let’s pretend it never happened.  Rusty has some of that in him too.  

Yes that daughter is something, appearing so close to and supportive of her Dad, wanting him to take the plea, and yet knowing all along she should be on trial, crazy story to tell.

 

[Phillygurl]

So against my better judgement I went back to finish the series and as I suspected, it was an utter disappointment. I agree with all of the above. I just hopped on to add... all those sex scenes with Rusty and Carolyn and we couldn't get just one of Barbara having revenge sex with the hot bartender? 

Also, in what world do you hear over and over how obsessed and in love your husband was with another woman, how he impregnated her, wanted to spend his life with her, texted her 30 times in a day and all of this knowledge is aired for everyone and their mother to google and you NOT leave him??? This felt to false to me.

Edited August 2 by Phillygurl
Additional comment

[debraran]

On 8/1/2024 at 10:58 PM, Phillygurl said:

So against my better judgement I went back to finish the series and as I suspected, it was an utter disappointment. I agree with all of the above. I just hopped on to add... all those sex scenes with Rusty and Carolyn and we couldn't get just one of Barbara having revenge sex with the hot bartender? 

Also, in what world do you hear over and over how obsessed and in love your husband was with another woman, how he impregnated her, wanted to spend his life with her, texted her 30 times in a day and all of this knowledge is aired for everyone and their mother to google and you NOT leave him??? This felt to false to me.

I did think the flashback sex scenes were a bit much and overdone. Okay, they had sex, she was a cold, almost sociopath with no real empathy toward others or her own child. Even with the kid who was abused, that was just normal behavior,was it shocking for Rusty to see that?

His wife had to "above him"in her actions but a dream/fantasy of them together is fine too. ; )

Spoiler

“This case is not about Tommy Molto. It’s not about me. It’s not even about Carolyn, at least not in the application of justice. It’s about you. You took an oath; you swore to a duty that to convict, you must find proof without a reasonable doubt. I accept your contempt. I deserve your contempt as a husband, as a father, and as a man, but I did not kill Carolyn Polhemus, which is why there is no evidence that I did. I am not honorable, but the irony is I hope you are.”

Don't know if I can post script from movie,but his closing argument was the best part.

[debraran]

On 7/26/2024 at 11:35 PM, endure said:

Yes that daughter is something, appearing so close to and supportive of her Dad, wanting him to take the plea, and yet knowing all along she should be on trial, crazy story to tell.

 

"Maybe" would have told if he got convicted but very odd ending.

[love2lovebadtv]

On 7/24/2024 at 5:44 AM, Spartan Girl said:

Speaking of audacity, Carolyn really thought it was a good idea to tell Rusty’s clearly emotional teenage daughter that she was having his child?! She wanted Rusty to stop stalking her, but she was keeping his baby despite the fact she had zero interest in being a mother to the child she already had? Not saying she deserved what she got, but I didn’t feel that sorry for her either.

I was so mad at Carolyn for telling Jaden she was pregnant. She didn't want her first child and didn't want Rusty. Why would she now tell this visibly hurt child that their lives would be intertwined because of the baby she was carrying? It felt like she was trying to mess with Jaden. 

On 7/24/2024 at 6:46 AM, endure said:

Well, that was certainly random.  No idea why Barbara hadn’t already left with her suitcase.  Crazy series.

I think there was no easy way out for Barbara. Even leaving would have been difficult. 

On 7/24/2024 at 8:14 AM, bosawks said:

I kind of have to admire a show that so clearly did not care if viewers actively disliked almost all of the characters.

It was a nutty viewing experience.

It was nutty alright! I was OK with not liking the characters because I was focused on whodunnit. 

On 7/24/2024 at 10:33 AM, ribboninthesky1 said:

Right? I liked Raymond's wife. They certainly leaned into the "nagging wife" bit (though I almost always agreed with her POV).  In truth, I was kind of rooting for her to leave Raymond as much as I wanted Barbara to leave Rusty. Let the man have his existential crisis alone and go enjoy your own life, Lorraine. 

For me, staying for the kids makes sense when they're younger.  But teenagers? I oscillated between disgust and pity for Barbara, and ultimately landed at disgust.  The series tried and failed to flesh her out, because I really didn't understand her at all. Especially knowing the damage that Rusty's affair and obsession had on the kids. 

Yeah the 180 on him trying to "protect" Barbara really fell flat when 90% of his scenes before the end showed him as a selfish asshole with anger management problems. 

I assumed it was the daughter a couple of episodes back because she was the only family member that wasn't shown as "suspicious."  It still made no sense because the police only searched Rusty's vehicle? Why wouldn't they have searched both? Not to mention the fact the Rusty managed to tie up Carolyn's body without getting a spec of blood or fiber on him?  And I was laughing at how Jaden conveniently knew where Tommy Molto lived to leave the poker? 🙄 This was a mess of a series.

There were a number of holes but I was OK with it for the most part. As far as knowing where Tommy lived, it's pretty easy to find a homeowner's address, assuming Tommy owns his home.

[30 Helens]

Late to this party, but it sounds like nobody was having fun anyway.

I knew going into this that the ending had been changed from the movie, so I wasn’t sure what to expect. I knew it wouldn’t be Tommy, because he was clearly being pushed as a suspect. I knew it wouldn’t be Barbara, just because. I thought it might be Rusty. I never considered the kids.

In the end, the only one I have sympathy for is Barbara. She is married to a man who is so cold, he can find someone he loved lying in a pool of her own blood, compartmentalize his emotions to the point where he’s immediately thinking of ways to cover the act, then further dehumanize said loved one by hogtying her. At the same time, Barbara has a daughter who is capable of bludgeoning a woman to death just because she’s pissed her off. What a family.

I’m just going to pretend one more episode exists, and it features Barbara grabbing that suitcase, going to find the bartender so she can scratch that one last itch, then heading off alone to parts unknown. I guess she can take the son if she wants to. But sociopath husband and daughter need to be left far behind.