S46 Ep. 13 Finale/Aftershow

[iMonrey]

1 hour ago, blackwing said:

I like Kenzie, but between Charlie and Kenzie, I think Charlie by far had the better game play.

"Best" game play is entirely subjective though. To some, it's who orchestrates the most votes, or tricks the most people That can result in hard feelings though that might bite them in the ass. To others, best game play is who forms the most social connections, who takes advantage of the best alliances. Still others might think winning the most challenges or finding the most advantages is best. 

The fact that Kenzie won, by definition, proves Kenzie played a better game. It doesn't matter what we think. It's how the jury sees it. This isn't an objective decision. You make it to the final three however you can and then try to present the best case to the jury you happen to have.

1 hour ago, blackwing said:

The only person I remember doing any kind of fishing was Hunter.  After Hunter was out, no more fish.  The crew loves filming these underwater scenes of contestants spearing fish underwater.  How come nobody else bothered?  Even with the rewards, there were still people saying they hadn't gotten to go on any (Ben).  Why didn't anybody fish?

I think the shorter season means they rely more heavily on food rewards. It's probably not worth expending the extra energy trying to fish if they're not very good at it an unlikely to catch anything worthwhile.

[lilysmom]

2 hours ago, blackwing said:

 

She has said in post-game interviews that she was exaggerating her wealth.  What?  I have no idea what to think about whether she does or does not have money.  Was it her strategy to overinflate her prowess at owning and selling various companies?  How would that help her?

 

 

 

 

I

I just have a feeling that those "companies" are Avon, LuLaRoe, and maybe Amway!

[blackwing]

1 hour ago, DEL901 said:

The Sia award is no more. https://ew.com/the-sia-survivor-prize-has-finally-come-to-end-8653952

So generous of her to give away all this money over the years.  She doesn’t seem to be as popular as she once was so maybe money is getting tight.

I wonder if Bhanu thought he was a shoo in for the Sia award.  Haha Bhanu, no money for you!  

[DEL901]

34 minutes ago, blackwing said:

I wonder if Bhanu thought he was a shoo in for the Sia award.  Haha Bhanu, no money for you!  

Maybe those millions of hearts he won can start a GoFundMe?

[violet and green]

8 hours ago, Skooma said:

She had the right to change her vote.  That is suppose to be what the final Q & A session is about.  And Kenzie made a far better case.  Charlie choked. 

She had a right to change her vote. I found it interesting, however, that she said she changed her mind to Kenzie after she saw the fire in her eyes during the fire-making with Liz. Okay... But that was before the final tribal with its questions - which was heavily edited of course, to tell the story of why Kenzie won, and Ben got zero votes. Charlie has said he explained his moves and strategy far more thoroughly, but it was cut from the edit. Like all tribals, it is a few minutes of footage edited usually from a few hours. As he said:

I really just explained my game in a lot more detail than they showed on the show, and about the pieces I was moving. For example, Soda's last question, which was one of the last questions of final Tribal, She said, “Charlie, my perception of you was that you were sort of Maria's henchman" — something like that. And she actually said in her question before I even answered. she was like, “But you've already proven me wrong.” I was very much separating myself from Maria's game, and at final Tribal there was a lot that I very intentionally did that didn't necessarily make the show, but I was able to talk about it final Tribal. I felt really good about having shown my strategy really well. 

https://ew.com/survivor-46-charlie-davis-interview-maria-8652760

[Rodney]

4 hours ago, blackwing said:

Charlie was the one that pulled off the Q vote and got Liz and Kenzie to support him.

Uh, what?  Charlie didn't pull shit off with that move.  Ben, Kenzie, and Liz already wanted Q out, so him also wanting him out didn't mean jack.  Plus, let's not forget that he jeopardized that move by deciding that he just had to tell Maria about it.  If she'd told Q to play his idol, then Charlie would've been toast.  The only ones to thank for the blindside working were Kenzie and Liz for soothing Q so much that he sat on his idol, anyway, even after hearing that he'd be getting votes.

[KaveDweller]

21 hours ago, princelina said:

Two themes we have come up with for future seasons:

1.  All of the wackos

2.  All of the goats who got no votes

I think a season of goats who got no votes could be interesting. Maybe those people got no attention in a season with more powerful players, but with different people around would do differently. Plus, people play differently their second time.

7 hours ago, eel2178 said:

If her problem was with gluten, then why didn't they offer her gluten free pasta as well?

There are also no guarantees that Applebee's hamburgers aren't made with breadcrumbs as a filler. Did she check every thing else she ate to be sure it wasn't made with coconut oil?

If she is really that allergic, she probably does check the ingredients of things and ask how they are prepared. People I know with allergies do that. And she knew she could eat the Applebee's food because she goes their all the time.

[Carey]

3 hours ago, eel2178 said:

I think she is just a delusional pathological liar.

Who actually did not receive a single vote against her the entire season.

[Carey]

9 hours ago, eel2178 said:

One of the questions on my last viewer survey was "if this show went away, how much would you miss it?" It was asked about all the CBS and CW shows I watch, not just Survivor.

That question had never been on any of their previous surveys, and I've been doing this for at least 15 years.

As mentioned, I would miss it, similar to other shows, but I would be okay with the fact that Survivor and company happened.  Not that it was over.  Nothing lasts forever, and sometimes ending things can be a good thing when it's gone on too long.  Especially when a product looks like it's happening for the sake of it.

Speaking of the end of things, not surprised at all that Sia's Prize has been done away with.

[Jeanne222]

On 5/22/2024 at 11:02 PM, TVFan1 said:

I'm happy about Kenzie's win. Watching Kenzie and seeing her play the social game and her kindness, as well as her talk at FTC about what she would do with the money if she won. Winning fire making helped too. I thought Charlie put up a good fight, I didn't know who was going to win, but I'm glad how it turned out. Charlie did look crushed after he realized he lost. 

Overall, good season. 42 was my favorite, with 45 being very close. 43 being the worst in the new era in my opinion.

I loved Kenzies too!  Her social game was the best in Survivor history.  Humble but honest.

I hope she marries her guy, invests her winning money and lives happily ever after.

Hers was surely a Cinderella story!

Edited May 25 by Jeanne222

[HappyDancex2]

I was speed watching to try to catch up with y’all but didn’t make it.  What a strange season!  
 

since everyone here is way more knowledgeable than I am on Survivor history, my recollection is that early seasons definitely had less of a need to be fair.  Meaning obviously we know now that the challenges are multi part so physical and mental advantages get watered down a lot.  They are also now painfully formulaic and getting kind of boring.

i guess part of the interest in the purity of the early seasons was that you didn’t know the type of challenges.  It could be a strength challenge.  But then it could be a quiz on how much you knew your tribe mates.  You could be standing for a long time.  You could be holding something.  And people were ok with it.  Meaning they knew some people had a physical advantage but they knew there would be mental or social or endurance ones that they might win.

so my question to everyon here is that if they had a reboot season, mimicking an early season…sub season 10 for instance, what one would you pick and how would this cast fit in those old parameters?

I’m starting to struggle with the challenges now….they aren’t interesting anymore.  It’s like watching the same obstacle course that ends with a puzzle.  If you have a mental block against spatial puzzles or slide puzzles or 3 D puzzles you may be at a severe disadvantage.  A non athletic person can always put one foot in front of the other and move forward.  Puzzles can be unsolvable for some.

i was on team Charlie but they voted for who they liked and had the freest personality.  

[JudyObscure]

23 hours ago, cowgirlwen said:

It wasn't so much what Kenzie said in her final answer, more so both of their final answers reminded the jury of this fact immediately before the vote.

And that's what it comes down to, so many times. After 29 days of working hard, playing grueling challenges and keeping an even temper under extreme conditions of sleep deprivation and hunger, the jury votes on whether someone stroked their ego or touched their heart immediately before the vote.

The game is supposed to be judged on who played the best game of outwit, outplay, outlast and year after year none of that seems to matter and it all comes down to the performance before the jury and the money goes to who outsold. 

If Survivor was a retreat for salesmen, or a camp to prepare people for job interviews, that would make sense, but other qualities are supposed to count more here. Time after time a great player loses because they "choked" before the jury. Reducing Survivor to the Toast Masters. 

[Carey]

I guess we have to have people starting to vote every day they are in Ponderosa.  That way, they can vote for the best player more often than not before their minds change due to a feel good story.  Make it cumulative

[KaveDweller]

11 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

The game is supposed to be judged on who played the best game of outwit, outplay, outlast and year after year none of that seems to matter and it all comes down to the performance before the jury and the money goes to who outsold. 

The jury has always been allowed to vote for whoever they want for whatever reason.

[millennium]

Been so long I can't recall the last time I didn't hate the winner, but now it's finally happened.  I should probably stop watching now.

I think Charlie lost it at "law school."   The jury members either thought "Just what the world needs -- another lawyer" or "He's going to law school whether he wins or not.  He has a more promising future than Kenzie."

I have to say, never have I seen a more crushed expression in a Survivor finale.   And when Maria explained why she didn't vote for him, Charlie looked dazed, like you see in movies when a warrior takes a dagger in the chest and he looks down unable to comprehend what has just happened.

There were a couple lesser betrayals in this episode.  Kenzie waffling even one second to consider whether she should bring Liz to the Sanctuary was the first -- you don't do that to the person who just made it possible for you to go to the Sanctuary in the first place.   And second, when Ben threw Kenzie into fire-making after she got him through all that high maintenance, at the cost of her own sleep.   Yeah, he sucks.  Shred that, Ben.

As for social butterfly Kenzie, she's worked in salons for years.  Relating to strangers, getting them to open up, it's part of what she does.  No surprise she got to know the other players so well.   Even before the vote you could see there was a lot of Kenzie energy in that jury.

 

Edited May 26 by millennium

[Carey]

Given the fact that there is precedent for a Survivor finalist to kick out a jury member, I would not be opposed to future seasons where a jury member's participation gets wiped out.  When they would actually do that & if it would backfire is unknown (though what's all but known is the show saying no chance for that)

1 hour ago, KaveDweller said:

The jury has always been allowed to vote for whoever they want for whatever reason.

 

Edited to make reference to who I was responding to since millennium's post came out of nowhere, and therefore could no longer reference KaveDweller's post without quoting it

[pennben]

I’ve been a very casual watcher this year. Tuned into finale after I knew outcome & some press. I raised an eyebrow when Charlie credited another jury member for invite to the six & when Maria retorted she was his in, he dismissed her contribution as his “letter of recommendation”. I’ve also read he spent lots of time in final tribal distinguishing his game from Maria. I suspect he so thought he had her vote in his back pocket that his arguments fluffing his position/diminishing her role lead to the ‘bitter’ vote. Which was bad jury management. 
It brings to mind a story of a local politician somewhere who lost an election by a handful of votes. He was hurt to find a neighbor didn’t vote for him. Neighbor’s response as to why:  You didn’t ask me for my vote, the other guy did. 

[ratgirlagogo]

30 minutes ago, millennium said:

As for social butterfly Kenzie, she's worked in salons for years.  Relating to strangers, getting them to open up, it's part of what she does.  No surprise she got to know the other players so well.   Even before the vote you could see there was a lot of Kenzie energy in that jury.

Absolutely, and that aspect of it is a skillset other players tend to ignore, in a way they wouldn't from someone who described themselves as working straight-up in sales.  It's the same skillset Kim Spradlin had from running a bridal boutique.

[JudyObscure]

2 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

The jury has always been allowed to vote for whoever they want for whatever reason.

Of course. 

And the rest of us have always been allowed to say whether or not we agree with their decision.  If the juries continue to give the million to the person who is best at bragging,  I'll probably keep complaining.

I should have guessed Kenzie would win after she comforted Ben during a panic attack and then immediately talked about herself like she was the new Mother Teresa.

[Rodney]

21 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

I should have guessed Kenzie would win after she comforted Ben during a panic attack and then immediately talked about herself like she was the new Mother Teresa.

I think that you're blowing that up to be more than it was.  I don't think that she was that self-congratulatory over it.  Or at all, really.

1 hour ago, pennben said:

I’ve been a very casual watcher this year. Tuned into finale after I knew outcome & some press. I raised an eyebrow when Charlie credited another jury member for invite to the six & when Maria retorted she was his in, he dismissed her contribution as his “letter of recommendation”. I’ve also read he spent lots of time in final tribal distinguishing his game from Maria. I suspect he so thought he had her vote in his back pocket that his arguments fluffing his position/diminishing her role lead to the ‘bitter’ vote. Which was bad jury management.

When you bring that up, that might be what did it.  Maria did not look pleased when Charlie said that.  She looked almost hurt, actually.  I hadn't thought of that until you brought that up.  If he really did further try to diminish her role in things and we didn't see that, then that might've contributed to her voting for Kenzie over him.

It was one thing for Charlie to separate his game from Maria.  But if he flat-out tried to diminish it and make her role seem less than it was, then yeah, he really screwed up there.

[surfgirl]

On 5/24/2024 at 6:20 PM, Carey said:

Who actually did not receive a single vote against her the entire season.

Because she was not a threat to anyone's game. 

[Carey]

9 hours ago, surfgirl said:

On 5/24/2024 at 9:20 PM, Carey said:

Who actually did not receive a single vote against her the entire season.

Because she was not a threat to anyone's game. 

Very true.  And this was the same case for Gabler.

[crush0013]

This is the first time I've ever posted but I could not pass this up. I'm a couple episodes behind but I just saw episode 10 where Liz had a nervous breakdown because she wasn't picked to go and have Applebee's. She said she was hu her and hadn't eaten for 18 days. That's her fault. She knew what her allergies were and what the main food source was on Survivor. She still chose to sign up and play. Don't take it out on Q because he didn't pick you. Own up to it, you wanted to leave your daughter at home and come out for 3+ weeks to be on TV. Maybe she should have stayed home with her daughter and had Applebee's every Wednesday and watch Survivor on TV. Now, to the team that picks the contestants. If someone has allergies to almost all food items like Liz has, maybe they shouldn't allow them to compete. They pull people from the game if it's not safe for them to continue. Maybe they shouldn't allow people to play if it's not safe. 

[pennben]

Liz made it through game. So, ultimately safe. She had some meltdowns. As do many on show. She perhaps overestimated what she could handle…so what? 

[Soapy Goddess]

1 hour ago, pennben said:

Liz made it through game. So, ultimately safe. She had some meltdowns. As do many on show. She perhaps overestimated what she could handle…so what? 

I think it's the outbursts that have turned people off. Yes, people have meltdowns, but not as loud and continuous as Liz had. 

And personally speaking, enough with pity parties and sob stories! Play the damn game on your own merits like everyone else. 

[Cornhusker12]

On 5/23/2024 at 6:43 AM, GenerationX said:

Good on you, Charlie, for giving Kenzie full credit for her win.  That's sportsmanship

I just want to shoutout Charlie for this again. It was one of the only times I've appreciated the value of the immediate after-show. He was clearly pretty dejected and dazed in the moment, but was able to pull together a pretty incredible concession speech that gave full credit to Kenzie in an authentic and gracious way. Very cool.

[Sunnykm]

All the contestants that practice the challenges and puzzles at home should instead practice a sob story for F3.  This is ridiculous to play a game and get to the end and have your sad story sway the votes.  

Please stop with that in F3.  Let the game play and social game be why the votes are cast.

Edited May 29 by Sunnykm
grammar

[bankerchick]

1 hour ago, Sunnykm said:

All the contestants that practice the challenges and puzzles at home should instead practice a sob story for F3.

This made me laugh.

Truth be told, if I'm on the jury and I always thought you were a dick, I'm probably not going to vote to give you a million dollars regardless of what your story is.   I would hope that any winner would be generous enough to use at least some of the money to help others in whatever way they saw fit, but 'I'm going to invest my winnings so I don't have to cut bangs when I'm 70' is as good a reason for playing for a million dollars as any I've heard.

[Carey]

On the other end, if I'm on the jury & thought that you crushed the game, either my vote will be the one that prevents a sob story from a perfect win or I'm voting for the eventual winner.

The thing is nobody separated themselves this year.  While I guess I feel bad for Charlie, I actually thought that Kenzie would win by a larger margin.

[realitytvfan1017]

On 5/24/2024 at 7:40 PM, blackwing said:

So generous of her to give away all this money over the years.  She doesn’t seem to be as popular as she once was so maybe money is getting tight.

I wonder if Bhanu thought he was a shoo in for the Sia award.  Haha Bhanu, no money for you!  

I wish Survivor went back to a fan favorite award, especially this year. After all they are saving all that money on the finale reunion show.

[DEL901]

25 minutes ago, realitytvfan1017 said:

I wish Survivor went back to a fan favorite award, especially this year. After all they are saving all that money on the finale reunion show.

The problem is timing….the reunion is filmed months before it is shown, so the audience wouldn’t be able to vote.   Unless Jeffy would make a surprise visit to the winner to announce the win.  

[Chicago Redshirt]

13 hours ago, DEL901 said:

The problem is timing….the reunion is filmed months before it is shown, so the audience wouldn’t be able to vote.   Unless Jeffy would make a surprise visit to the winner to announce the win.  

If they wanted to, they could figure out a way. They could have votes come in throughout the season and just have a 2 minute live segment during the finale where they announce the winner, for example.

[Johannah]

On 5/25/2024 at 8:31 AM, Carey said:

I guess we have to have people starting to vote every day they are in Ponderosa.  That way, they can vote for the best player more often than not before their minds change due to a feel good story.  Make it cumulative

That would be really interesting. 

The first person on the jury would get the most votes. 

Votes would be eliminated as people are voted out so you might have to factor that in when you vote...  I think player1 will be voted out soon, so I'll give my vote to player2 to have more impact on the final winner.

They could have a winner from this and the regular way.  I know the whole sacred "sole survivor" thing, but the show must make millions.  They can give more prizes.  

Edited June 1 by Johannah

[AncientNewbie]

In the end, the game is all about jury management. Everything is keyed toward having power to put people there or keep yourself from there, and then to navigate what you've done. Amanda Kimmel and Coach both played masterful games but couldn't (or wouldn't) admit to their necessary treachery. Russel Hantz played a strong game and claimed it, but was so socially offputting he'd burned all the bridges with the jury before the vote. 

Charlie also played a good game but ended up in a terrible place. He either came off as Maria's henchman, probably keeping her vote but likely losing another, or he tried to take credit and claim leadership, true or not, but that costs her vote (which he did not expect.) 

I didn't hear Kenzie as a sob story. I just thought she was honest about where she was in life and what she wanted. 

[eel2178]

I just got my June Viewer Survey from CBS in my inbox.

Is there anything about this season's Survivor that anyone would like me to include in my comments?

[Soapy Goddess]

9 hours ago, eel2178 said:

I just got my June Viewer Survey from CBS in my inbox.

Is there anything about this season's Survivor that anyone would like me to include in my comments?

Yes, Please don't allow anyone to help another player win an individual immunity challenge. Not fair to the other players. And we don't need eventual chaos if it continues.

[seacliffsal]

I just read the posted interview with Jeff in the media thread and he stated that he is happy with 26 days and won't be going back to 39 days which is what I would have recommended.  Maybe they could try 30 days?  Being out there less than a month for all of the hoopla they present just doesn't seem long enough.

[DEL901]

7 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

I just read the posted interview with Jeff in the media thread and he stated that he is happy with 26 days and won't be going back to 39 days which is what I would have recommended.  Maybe they could try 30 days?  Being out there less than a month for all of the hoopla they present just doesn't seem long enough.

Some of the European versions go 70 days or even more. 

[Rodney]

On 6/19/2024 at 5:39 PM, DEL901 said:

Some of the European versions go 70 days or even more. 

Seventy or more?!  No way!  That is too long!