S03.E07: The Polterguest

[giovannif7]

I've been rewatching Isaac's lapdance to check out the reactions of the other ghosts in the background (among other reasons.) Loved Thorfinn's admiration for the dancer's abs, Trevor almost going into a routine of his own, and Pete getting into the music as well - only Sass seems a bit aloof to the whole situation, although he did sit through the whole thing. I'm pleasantly surprised that none of them nope'd out on watching a male stripper - the show has been great in regards to the open-mindedness of spirits from so many different eras. 🏳️‍🌈

I know the bachelor party was for male ghosts only, and that she may not be aware that there are male strippers at these events - but I would love to have seen Hetty's reaction to Isaac's lapdancer. It would have been great to have her peek her head through the wall and get all wide-eyed and lusty, and then corner Isaac later to get the up-close details. 😛

[Annber03]

2 hours ago, chaifan said:

I loved Trevor getting all indignant at Sam when the stripper winked at her.  "Don't tee-hee at him.  That's Issac's stripper."  Gotta love a Bro Code moment. 

I absolutely LOVED how incredibly jazzed Trevor was about the bachelor parties, and how he seemed just as into the stripper as Isaac - you could see him kinda grooving to the music in the background at times during that scene :D. He was all in on trying to give these guys both fun parties and it was wonderful. 

6 hours ago, PaulE said:

It seems like the dinosaur thing (I'd say it's approaching more of a fetish than an obsession at this point) is already a bit of a sore subject with Nigel.  Remember, he told Isaac that dinosaurs were his thing but the wedding was supposed to be about both of them.  However, Nigel shouldn't complain too much, given his devotion to ants (though I doubt Kevin and the McGregor clan will be invited to the ceremony).

As for Jenkins's lap dance (I shudder, horses neigh), I did notice that, for a supposed beginner, Jenkins wasn't exactly clueless about what to do.  If someone were to say, "This is his first time," I'd respond, "This is his first time today." 

Isaac's interest in the stripper-and-fellow-dinosaur-enthusiast got me to thinking about the sexual dynamics of our two soldiers.  You'd think that Nigel, having accepted and been comfortable with himself much longer and more easily than Isaac, would be the more uninhibited and adventurous, yet I'm getting the sense  that he's pretty conventional and downright vanilla (though, in fairness, we don't know how he'd have reacted if he'd been presented with Isaac's stripper instead of Jenkins).  Isaac, however, who has only just come out, is already showing some mildly kinky tendencies.  He's going to be the proverbial kid in the candy store.  I just hope that on their wedding night he doesn't ask Nigel to make clicking noises.

Yeah, I think Nigel's already well and truly figured himself and his interests and kinks and attractions and all that out, so I get the feeling a lot of this stuff doesn't really faze him anymore (though, yes, I too would've very much loved to see what his reaction would've been to the strip show Isaac got :D). All of this is completely new for Isaac, the guy was repressed and struggled to acknowledge both his sexuality and his feelings for Nigel for SO LONG. 

Someone at another site I go to suggested that the dinosaur thing is kind of a "safe" way for Isaac to properly explore these newfound feelings - I feel like it can't be a coincidence that the show is using an extinct species as a way to tap into this particular subject for Isaac. So now he's just got to figure out how to sort out this little dinosaur kink and how it connects to and can be separated from his desire for more physical intimacy with Nigel. I think there could be a really good opportunity for some growth and development here in that area, similar to the way they handled Isaac's nervousness about kissing Nigel in the Christmas episode, so I'm hoping that's the direction they'll utlimately be going with this. It'd be great to see Isaac and Nigel learning to connect in this way, too. 

And ha, yes, I thought about them finding a compromise with the dinosaurs vs. ants thing, too :p. And the fact that I'm even saying such things proves just how uttelrly bonkers this show really is - and I say that with all the love :D. 

Regarding Jenkins' lap dance, yeah, I was surprised at how quickly he seemed to get into it, too. My main thought during that whole scene was, "Dear god, is that how he tried to seduce Nigel when they were together back in the day?" :p. I was seriously half-expecting Baxter to start playing some modern song on his fife with absolutely NO explanation as to how or where he would've learned such a song :p. But playing music from his time was hilarious in its own right. 

(I also loved the bit where Jenkins just casually mentioned watching Charleston burn and the shed got REALLY quiet XD.)

7 hours ago, iMonrey said:

This episode will go down as one of my top five or six favorites of all time. It was hysterical. I can't believe what this show gets away with, dialogue-wise. "Saul jerked himself off onto Jay!" I wonder if people write to the network and complain the show is too dirty.

For real, I was saying to someone last night that I couldn't believe this episode aired on CBS. At 7:30 pm (my time, anyway). The censors must've been sound asleep or out or something - whatever the reason, thank god they were able to get this episode out there :D. 

Another exchange that gave me a really good laugh, after Trevor suggested Sam hire a stripper to come to the house for Isaac's party:

Pete: "Do they make house calls?"

Trevor: "Pete? You're adorable." 

7 hours ago, iMonrey said:

This appears to have been the first episode written by Akilah Green. I hope whoever that is gets to write a lot more of them.

Yeah, that's a hell of a way to make an entrance as a writer on this show :D. I too am all for seeing more of what they could come up with for this series. 

[ams1001]

9 hours ago, desertflower said:

Does anyone else have a lot of trouble using this site on their phone? On mine it constantly tries to reload the page and the ads are insane. Guess I need some kind of ad blocker.

I've been getting those ads where suddenly a thick border appears around the screen, then retreats a bit and the ad pops up from the bottom and covers a third of my screen. There's a little arrow to minimize it and then an x appears so you can close it. Minimized it's about the size of the perma-ad bar that's already at the bottom of the screen (which you used to be able to close.) They're annoying as hell and I mostly have only seen them on this site. It's happened at least three times just while I was catching up on this thread.

8 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

I hope there are dinosaurs on the cake.

I googled and found some really cute dino wedding cake toppers. Of course none of them were groom and groom. Probably wouldn't be Isaac's style but how cute are these little guys?

[shapeshifter]

20 hours ago, Bastet said:

“My thirst is quenched, but the water is still here” was great.

Followed by "I'm drowning." 
For me, Sam wasn't caving into Alberta's requests; Sam was relating to her like any close girlfriend.…
…although Sam was also being haunted by a ghost. 
Whenever Sam does the ghosts' bidding, it seems natural to me. It's what haunted people do. Right? 

 

11 hours ago, Annber03 said:

Yeah, he was definitely attractive. And he was into Isaac's interest! So yeah, not surprised he can't stop thinking about him :D. 

I was more like Saul in my youth (clinging to my lovers) and am aware that's not typical, still I can't help imagine Isaac wanting to see more of the stripper.
A few lines from Nigel seem to be hinting at a rift between him and Isaac. 
Maybe they will have a brief breakup during which Sam will agree to get the stripper back to cheer up Isaac. Then the ghosts might plot to kill the stripper at the Woodstone so he and Isaac could be together (which is so wrong on so many levels). After the shenanigans, Isaac and Nigel would get back together, having learned to accept each other for who they are.

11 hours ago, appositival said:

Did the stripper say he was working his way through grad school? I'm still wondering why he knew so much about dinosaurs.

I think the stripper was maybe writing a dissertation on paleontology? 

 

 

8 hours ago, iMonrey said:

And OMG, those lap dances. Both of them. I can't decide which was more cringe (and hysterical) - Jenkins' or the stripper's.

I could not watch Jenkins' lap dance entirely. It was like when I used to squint my way through the autopsies on Bones.

[Good Queen Jane]

I’ve watched Isaac’s stripper a number of times just to make sure the stripper was getting all the dinosaur facts correct. That’s my story and I’m sticking to it. In fact, I think I should do more fact checking right now.

[kathyk2]

4 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Sam has to put up with a lot of ghost shenanigans, I don't envy her. Notice when Hetty was trying to pin down the wedding details with Nigel and Isaac she said "There's a lot of things we have to tell Sam to do!" Yeah, Jay does have to put up with a lot but Sam has to put up with a whole lot more. I agree she should put her foot down more often but it's just her, versus eight or nine ghosts on a daily basis. That can't be easy.

Exactly the Ghosts manipulate Sam in order to get what they want. I'm sure that there are people who think Sam is crazy as a result of the stories she has to invent as a moment's notice. Pete was very protective of Jay when Sass entered Jay's dreams but nobody thinks about what interacting with the ghosts does to her.

[Chit Chat]

16 hours ago, chaifan said:

Since it's already been spoiled on this page...  damn those previews!  I really wish they didn't preview Flower being found. 

The show spoiled it a week or so ago when we heard Flower's voice calling out from the well.

13 hours ago, giovannif7 said:

only Sass seems a bit aloof to the whole situation, although he did sit through the whole thing.

Sass is one who sits back quietly and observes everyone & everything around him.  That's why he remembers the small details about people while others forget.  That's what I love about him!  

[seacliffsal]

On 4/11/2024 at 11:11 PM, Packerbrewerbadger said:

I love this show and all the characters, tho Sam is by far my least favorite and it especially bugs me how she constantly honors the ghosts requests   ( no matter how ridiculous - paying Nigel for the book when they’re struggling financially ) with no regard to poor Jay who’s a saint!  

I really liked Sam at first, but she has consistently gone down in my 'liking' rankings.  I am so tired of her honoring the ghosts over Jay and it's getting to the point that I think he should leave to preserve his dignity.  It's one thing if there are odd requests here and there, but her choosing the ghosts' requests and preferences actively undermines her and Jay's lives and livelihood.  There needs to be a point at which she chooses him over them.

[shapeshifter]

58 minutes ago, seacliffsal said:

There needs to be a point at which she chooses him over them.

Doesn't Sam already do this on a regular basis? It's just that there a lot more ghosts and ghost-demands?
I can't name instances when Sam has told the ghosts "No" on Jay's behalf, but I'm pretty sure she has. 
And maybe a time or 2 she manipulated the situation for Jay's benefit. 
In this episode Sam hired the stripper for Isaac, which wound up later providing a little spice inbetween the sheets for Sam and Jay.
Sam didn't plan it, of course, but sometimes being nice to a ghost has fringe benefits.👻

In this episode, yes, Jay had to go find the dentist to get Saul detached, but there was no other way around that due to ghost mechanics.
Would Sam have detached Saul by herself from Jay if it was possible? Maybe?
Sam had already tried to offer the dentist a free night for Alberta, and he had turned it down.🤷🏻‍♀️

Perhaps the writers need to give Jay a line or two in which he expresses how he appreciates having the ghosts around. Yes, they are mostly annoying. That's traditionally what ghosts are. But Jay likes nerdy stuff, so he probably feels pretty privileged and special to live with someone who shares ghosts' conversations with him.

[PaulE]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

Perhaps the writers need to give Jay a line or two in which he expresses how he appreciates having the ghosts around. Yes, they are mostly annoying. That's traditionally what ghosts are. But Jay likes nerdy stuff, so he probably feels pretty privileged and special to live with someone who shares ghosts' conversations with him.

Although Jay's never said this in so many words, it's been very clear from the beginning, through other things he's said and done, that he thinks having the ghosts around is cool and that he wishes more than anything he could see and hear them as Sam does.  He's been inconvenienced and embarrassed countless times because of them and yet he shows no lasting hard feelings.  It's hard to imagine how else he could prove his affection for the ghosts, especially since Sam at least has the reward of personal interaction with them while he essentially has nothing.  A less generous and good-hearted man would have gotten the hell out of Dodge long ago.

I also think that those who feel Jay was being unsympathetic to Alberta in this episode really need to consider the implications of what she wanted him to do, which is essentially to cede all control over himself to spirits he can't see or hear.  I mean, think of it:  he's supposed to sit in a silent empty room while Alberta and Saul canoodle.  Gotta go to the bathroom?  Sorry, you'll just have to hold it so as not to interrupt the lovers in a clinch.  Bored and want to get a book or something, or maybe, as a bed-and-breakfast owner, you actually have business you must attend to?  Sorry, you've gotta wait.  Though unless and until Sam comes in he'll have no idea whether it's alright for him to leave, so he could be sitting there long after they've finished and Alberta's left the room.  Also, sorry your own wife can't always sleep in the same bed as you and, oh, yes, good luck falling asleep knowing two ghosts are getting it on right then and there.  Jay might as well be a robot.    

We all agree that Jay's inability to communicate with the ghosts contributes to the comedy, but I hope the show isn't going to rely completely on how many ways Jay can be humiliated and crapped on, as happened with Darren in the last season or two of that old sitcom Bewitched.  When, during their whispered argument, Jay said to Sam that he was a person who mattered, he was spot on, but I think it went over her head.

That said, I think kathy2 made an important point about considering how Sam's ability to interact with the ghosts has affected her and maybe turned her into something of a doormat for the ghosts.  If Jay doesn't fulfill their wishes he can just carry on with his day, but in her case, she'll have to deal with arguing, nagging, resentment, hurt feelings, and anger  that she can't ignore or escape as long as she's in that house. That's an instance where being able to communicate with the ghosts is actually a minus for her and a plus for Jay.  But even so, she ought to develop the backbone to stick up for her husband a little more.

[FakingIt]

The thing about Sam always doing what the ghosts want/ask is at least partially because she can't get away from them.  She will literally have 6 people talking at or screaming at hear about something or other.  Hard to ignore even when you know you should.  I feel for her because no matter where she goes (at the doctor, at a restaurant, in a store, etc) she has the potential for ghosts to start interrupting and interfering with what she's doing. How do you set boundaries with ghosts? 

[iMonrey]

17 hours ago, realitytvfan1017 said:

 So happy Flower is back!

I hate to say it but I really don't miss her. It's not that I dislike the character or anything but the season has been just fine without her. I don't feel like I'm missing anything. It might not be the worst thing in the world for them to shake up the cast now and then. It's always interesting when there are new ghosts to meet.

Two really good bits this episode I wanted to point out. One, when Trevor is telling Nigel and Isaac about bachelor parties, he raises his hands over his head to say "party!" and we get a reaction shot from Isaac and Nigel, clearly recoiling at the exposure of Trevor's nethers.

Also, after Alberta learns that Sam and Jay tried to convince Saul to go to Italy she starts to storm out of the kitchen with Saul in tow. But then she has to turn around and say to Sam "Will you tell Jay to leave, I want Saul to storm out with me."

[shura]

17 minutes ago, PaulE said:

I mean, think of it:  he's supposed to sit in a silent empty room while Alberta and Saul canoodle.

Which he absolutely did do.  I couldn’t believe my eyes.  There was no reason for Jay to be sitting there all by himself, he was totally being a good sport and just providing alone time for Alberta and Saul.  Probably alternating between being bored and resentful of the whole situation.  I would not be so generous and good-hearted, no chance.  I would go about my own business, if it works for you ghosts - great, if not - well, you will have to adjust to my needs. 

26 minutes ago, PaulE said:

Sam at least has the reward of personal interaction with them

That’s an interesting thought.  I am not sure I can remember Sam having a personal interaction with them, of the kind where you are just chatting with a friend because you find it rewarding.  Has she done that?  She seems to always just react to their demands and situations.

29 minutes ago, FakingIt said:

The thing about Sam always doing what the ghosts want/ask is at least partially because she can't get away from them.  She will literally have 6 people talking at or screaming at hear about something or other.  Hard to ignore even when you know you should.  I feel for her because no matter where she goes (at the doctor, at a restaurant, in a store, etc) she has the potential for ghosts to start interrupting and interfering with what she's doing.

Yes, the ghosts really are not Sam’s friends, are they?  They are a burden she has to deal with, that’s pretty much it.  I am not sure that understanding Sam’s situation and feeling for her means that what she is doing to Jay is OK.  She may be miserable, yes, but should she be spreading this misery onto Jay or should she be making an effort to shield him from it?

[PaulE]

47 minutes ago, shura said:

I would go about my own business, if it works for you ghosts - great, if not - well, you will have to adjust to my needs. 

1 hour ago, PaulE said:

Sam at least has the reward of personal interaction with them

That’s an interesting thought.  I am not sure I can remember Sam having a personal interaction with them, of the kind where you are just chatting with a friend because you find it rewarding.  Has she done that?  She seems to always just react to their demands and situations.

1 hour ago, FakingIt said:

The thing about Sam always doing what the ghosts want/ask is at least partially because she can't get away from them.  She will literally have 6 people talking at or screaming at hear about something or other.  Hard to ignore even when you know you should.  I feel for her because no matter where she goes (at the doctor, at a restaurant, in a store, etc) she has the potential for ghosts to start interrupting and interfering with what she's doing.

Yes, the ghosts really are not Sam’s friends, are they?  They are a burden she has to deal with, that’s pretty much it.  I am not sure that understanding Sam’s situation and feeling for her means that what she is doing to Jay is OK.  She may be miserable, yes, but should she be spreading this misery onto Jay or should she be making an effort to shield him from it?

What might've worked would have been if Jay had agreed to, say, go to his bedroom for one or two hours at a stated time each day to allow Alberta and Saul to have their alone time, but beyond that it's catch as catch can.  An arrangement like that could actually be funny if the guests asked Sam why he always did that every day and she'd have to make up an excuse, like he's really into meditation and is militant about never missing a day.  Something like that would at least have been a compromise.

As for Sam's ghostly interactions, i do get the feeling that, although much of it is about satisfying their demands, she's gotten to know them as personalities over time and has a certain affection for them as a result--she might not like all of them all the time but they're still real to her and perhaps she's grown to appreciate their good qualities and maybe put up with some of their faults and foibles or at least understand why they have them.  As we all do in real life with our relationships, right?  Jay, however, can't do this; he doesn't really "know" them the way Sam does.  That's what I meant by interacting.  It would be nice to see her just chatting with a ghost now and then--maybe asking Sass about what daily life was like for his tribe or Nigel about his life in England.  But I suppose that wouldn't make for much of a comedy plot.

And, yes, as much as I criticize Sam for being an unsupportive wife, I can't imagine what it must be like to never be free of ghosts no matter where you go.  Why she hasn't gone completely starkers is, I suppose, a testimony to some kind of inner strength, doormat though she might be.

[Chit Chat]

1 hour ago, PaulE said:

I also think that those who feel Jay was being unsympathetic to Alberta in this episode really need to consider the implications of what she wanted him to do, which is essentially to cede all control over himself to spirits he can't see or hear. 

Exactly!  Hopefully this situation won't happen again.  For me, it's over the line to expect Jay to sit idly by while 2 ghosts are being intimate.  Sure, he can't see or hear them, but if I had to try and go to sleep knowing that was happening within 10 feet of me, I'd be uncomfortable. 

Realistically, they could've worked it out where Jay was alone in the bedroom watching a TV show and Sam was elsewhere in the house, and then he'd have no idea that Alberta was in the room with the other ghost.  Sam & the ghosts need to be more sly about these kinds of things.  Of course, that doesn't make for good comedy, I suppose.  

[shapeshifter]

6 minutes ago, PaulE said:

What might've worked would have been if Jay had agreed to, say, go to his bedroom for one or two hours at a stated time each day to allow Alberta and Saul to have their alone time, but beyond that it's catch as catch can. 

Ooo. I think the writers missed an opportunity for Alberta and Saul to do it on the kitchen counter while Jay was unwittingly having a midnight nosh. 

 

 

8 minutes ago, PaulE said:

As for Sam's ghostly interactions, i do get the feeling that, although much of it is about satisfying their demands, she's gotten to know them as personalities over time and has a certain affection for them as a result--she might not like all of them all the time but they're still real to her and perhaps she's grown to appreciate their good qualities and maybe put up with some of their faults and foibles or at least understand why they have them.  As we all do in real life with our relationships, right?

This may have come up in an earlier thread: 
The ghosts are like children to Sam, and she is like their mother. 
The ghosts have "lived" such sheltered lives, that in many ways they are childlike. 

[Bastet]

1 hour ago, PaulE said:

As for Sam's ghostly interactions, i do get the feeling that, although much of it is about satisfying their demands, she's gotten to know them as personalities over time and has a certain affection for them as a result--she might not like all of them all the time but they're still real to her and perhaps she's grown to appreciate their good qualities and maybe put up with some of their faults and foibles or at least understand why they have them. 

She refused to lift Thor's Viking curse that they never get the B&B opened because there was a slim chance it would also take away her ability to see and hear the ghosts.  They're profoundly selfish far more often than they should be, but she loves them.  And their selfishness is a pretty natural result of having spent so long - so, SO long for many of them - trapped, telling their same stories over and over to each other, because they had no medium for interacting with the world in any way.  Now someone can put the TV on for them, turn book pages for them, satisfy their food smell cravings, and answer their questions about life outside the property. 

Sam sets boundaries and they plow right through them the first time they want something, but just as they're not just burdens she's stuck with to her, she's not just a means to an end for them.  They've developed a charming relationship, one Jay takes part in to the extent he can, and the wacky sitcom hijincks flow naturally as they argue and adjust over time.

But this season has seemed to involve a steadier stream of stronger selfishness than the first two seasons did.  It's probably a result of having a limited run; the writers had their big stories, rooted in conflict, they wanted to tell, so did all those, without the usual room for more variety in between.

Edited April 13 by Bastet

[PaulE]

54 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

The ghosts are like children to Sam, and she is like their mother. 
The ghosts have "lived" such sheltered lives, that in many ways they are childlike.

This comment made me think about how I whipsaw from harshly criticizing the ghosts for their selfishness to having a certain amount of sympathy for them.  It really must be awful for these guys, who were once alive, to no longer have any agency.  Can't enjoy food, can't change clothes, can't travel, can't pick up a book and read, can't even completely have sex (I think Sass said that about sex once, right?). And yet they can remember what they're now missing, which makes it even worse.  I honestly can understand how desperation and privation--even a certain amount of bewilderment--might make them selfish.  But then I go back to thinking they need to be smacked.  I guess that says something about the humanity with which the writers have invested these characters.

[chitowngirl]

19 hours ago, ams1001 said:

On 4/12/2024 at 9:50 AM, desertflower said:

I've been getting those ads where suddenly a thick border appears around the screen, then retreats a bit and the ad pops up from the bottom and covers a third of my screen. There's a little arrow to minimize it and then an x appears so you can close it. Minimized it's about the size of the perma-ad bar that's already at the bottom of the screen (which you used to be able to close.) They're annoying as hell and I mostly have only seen them on this site. It's happened at least three times just while I was catching up on this thread.

The new Spiced Coke ad is the one that has been like that lately. There was a Best Buy ad that was like that a while ago. Between those kind of ads, ads in between every post, and the ads that take up the right third of the screen, I can just eke out space to read posts. 

[kathyk2]

1 hour ago, Bastet said:

She refused to lift Thor's Viking curse that they never get the B&B opened because there was a slim chance it would also take away her ability to see and hear the ghosts.  They're profoundly selfish far more often than they should be, but she loves them.  And their selfishness is a pretty natural result of having spent so long - so, SO long for many of them - trapped, telling their same stories over and over to each other, because they had no medium for interacting with the world in any way.  Now someone can put the TV on for them, turn book pages for them, satisfy their food smell cravings, and answer their questions about life outside the property. 

Sam sets boundaries and they plow right through them the first time they want something, but just as they're not just burdens she's stuck with to her, she's not just a means to an end for them.  They've developed a charming relationship, one Jay takes part in to the extent he can, and the wacky sitcom hijincks flow naturally as they argue and adjust over time.

But this season has seemed to involve a steadier stream of stronger selfishness than the first two seasons did.  It's probably a result of having a limited run; the writers had their big stories, rooted in conflict, they wanted to tell, so did all those, without the usual room for more variety in between.

Sam is also the link to their survivors for the younger ghosts. I've noticed that there aren't as many heartwarming moments this season. The writers have made it clear that Jay is missing the way things used to be trying to find friends and building the restaurant for him. Sam lost her friends too and nobody remembers that.

[Skooma]

10 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Perhaps the writers need to give Jay a line or two in which he expresses how he appreciates having the ghosts around. Yes, they are mostly annoying. That's traditionally what ghosts are. But Jay likes nerdy stuff, so he probably feels pretty privileged and special to live with someone who shares ghosts' conversations with him.

They did.  They gave him a whole speech in the car to Sam, an "Ode of Appreciation to Our Ghosts" as it were in the last scene of last season right before we saw the suck-off happening.

He has also mentioned how cool it is to have them around.  He's good-natured about the ghost antics and only got upset big time over Sass invading his dreams until they set up parameters and now he loves it.

He considers them family like Sam does.  They both care about their ghostly family.  Jay has Sass in his dreams now and Pete to watch basketball and play D&D with.  He considers he is lucky all this is in his life.

Ghostly antics are fun to watch.  Everybody gets along like any family gets along.  Up, downs and memorable moments full of good humor and heart.

And I should add that without ghostly antics there is no TV show.

Edited April 14 by Skooma

[possibilities]

I remember when Jay and Pete played D&D together with Sam facilitating. There have not been many stories like that lately. it's all ghost demands and tantrums. I would prefer to see more mutual appreciation and coordination than the constant strife.

[Annber03]

My running theory is that a large part of the tension between everyone this season has to do with Flower being gone. Sam's upset about losing one of the ghosts, and that's affecting her, which in turn is affecting Jay, and the ghosts, for all their talk about how happy they are at the thought that she's moved on and left this purgatory, are kind of struggling with her being gone, too. That might explain some of why they're being more clingy and demanding and wanting more of Sam's time and whatnot. Her leaving really spooked (no pun intended) - sure, some of them have seen other ghosts move on before, but it seems such a sporadic event and some of these ghosts have been here for SO LONG that they've kind of fallen into a false sense of security. 

And now one of their own is gone. And they're not quite sure how to process it. So they're acting out more as a result. 

I also sense the tension of Sam and Jay trying to keep both the B&B and the restaurant afloat is affecting the ghosts' behavior and attitudes as well - they're more frustrated and short-tempered, which in turn makes the ghosts more frustrated and short-tempered. After all, if this B&B, and now the restaurant, don't pan out, then what does that mean for Sam and Jay's future at this mansion, and the ghosts in turn? 

And of course, there's also the fact that this season is so short and they're trying to get so much into a small time frame, so storylines that normally would have a little more time to breathe and be properly fleshed out and expanded upon are kind of piling on and everything's happening in very quick, short succession. So all the chaos with Sam and Jay and their issues with the ghosts is that much more overwhelming as a result. I sense once they get into next season, when they're able to do a proper regular 20 plus episode run, that'll help make it easier for them to address some of the issues that are coming up with all these characters this season. 

[roamyn]

13 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

I really liked Sam at first, but she has consistently gone down in my 'liking' rankings.  I am so tired of her honoring the ghosts over Jay and it's getting to the point that I think he should leave to preserve his dignity.  It's one thing if there are odd requests here and there, but her choosing the ghosts' requests and preferences actively undermines her and Jay's lives and livelihood.  There needs to be a point at which she chooses him over them.

Exactly.  They're married.. They're supposed to be partners.

[possibilities]

I would like to see the ghosts be grateful to Sam and Jay, and want them to stay, and thus try to help them succeed, rather than constantly sabotaging and complaining and acting out like spoiled brats.

I hope having Flower come back would change that. I hadn't thought of that.

But I fear that the writers think it's funny to have the obnoxious behavior and constant conflict drive the stories.

I mean, in this episode, Alberta could have followed her polterguest into the next room when his host went upstairs, or when Jay wanted to leave the entry way. There was no reason for Sam to try to delay the guest from going upstairs, or have Jay stand there by himself while the two talked. I think the writers think it's funny to have bratty ghosts and have Sam side against Jay rather than the two of them working together more.

Maybe I'm just cranky. I don't know. I guess we'll know soon enough if things get better.

[kathyk2]

57 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

My running theory is that a large part of the tension between everyone this season has to do with Flower being gone. Sam's upset about losing one of the ghosts, and that's affecting her, which in turn is affecting Jay, and the ghosts, for all their talk about how happy they are at the thought that she's moved on and left this purgatory, are kind of struggling with her being gone, too. That might explain some of why they're being more clingy and demanding and wanting more of Sam's time and whatnot. Her leaving really spooked (no pun intended) - sure, some of them have seen other ghosts move on before, but it seems such a sporadic event and some of these ghosts have been here for SO LONG that they've kind of fallen into a false sense of security. 

And now one of their own is gone. And they're not quite sure how to process it. So they're acting out more as a result. 

I also sense the tension of Sam and Jay trying to keep both the B&B and the restaurant afloat is affecting the ghosts' behavior and attitudes as well - they're more frustrated and short-tempered, which in turn makes the ghosts more frustrated and short-tempered. After all, if this B&B, and now the restaurant, don't pan out, then what does that mean for Sam and Jay's future at this mansion, and the ghosts in turn? 

And of course, there's also the fact that this season is so short and they're trying to get so much into a small time frame, so storylines that normally would have a little more time to breathe and be properly fleshed out and expanded upon are kind of piling on and everything's happening in very quick, short succession. So all the chaos with Sam and Jay and their issues with the ghosts is that much more overwhelming as a result. I sense once they get into next season, when they're able to do a proper regular 20 plus episode run, that'll help make it easier for them to address some of the issues that are coming up with all these characters this season. 

I think Flower was the heart of the ghosts. We see how much Thorfin loved her. She had some sweet talks with Hetty and Trevor. The writers have also introduced two new characters which have caused conflict. I've wanted Jay to see the ghosts from the beginning so Sam doesn't have to cope with them by herself.

[shura]

11 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

This may have come up in an earlier thread: 
The ghosts are like children to Sam, and she is like their mother. 
The ghosts have "lived" such sheltered lives, that in many ways they are childlike.

Yes, that’s exactly what it is.  This is not friendship, it is a different kind of relationship.  They are selfish burdens and she feels an obligation to take care of them and they love each other.  It’s a parent-children relationship.

[shapeshifter]

10 hours ago, possibilities said:

But I fear that the writers think it's funny to have the obnoxious behavior and constant conflict drive the stories.

Comedy writing is invariably one word away from being insufferable to half the audience.

10 hours ago, possibilities said:

Maybe I'm just cranky.

"So say we all."
Which is why we watch.📺

 

[iMonrey]

22 hours ago, PaulE said:

Can't enjoy food, can't change clothes, can't travel, can't pick up a book and read, can't even completely have sex (I think Sass said that about sex once, right?).

Yes, but it's a continuity issue and/or plot point that seems to have been dropped. Sass did say they could have sex, but they couldn't "finish," which was very frustrating. However, since that time, Hetty had an orgasm on the washing machine then regularly dallied with Trevor. And just this episode, Alberta and Saul did it three times in one night. Which strongly suggests . . . "finishing."

Trying to reconcile, I assume that Sass was just messing with Sam. She walked away and he called after her "Sam come back. I want to tell Jay about ghost sex." Sass has been known to mess with her before.

[Annber03]

Yeah, the general consensus in some of the other discussion sites I go to is that Sasappis was either messing with Sam, or he might not have a great history in that department, and therefore just seems to assume that's the case with all the ghosts as a result. 

Or maybe it's a situation where the women seem to have an easier time with that stuff in the afterlife than men do :p. Which would be a kick. 

Edited April 14 by Annber03

[Mabinogia]

I always assumed he meant the male ghosts can't ejaculate, which would make sense since they can't seem to get rid of anything they have on them (or in this case in them) for more than a second. That doesn't mean they can't orgasm, just no bodily fluid swapping. And that is the most I have ever thought about ghost sex. I feel...weird now. lol

[PaulE]

2 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

I always assumed he meant the male ghosts can't ejaculate, which would make sense since they can't seem to get rid of anything they have on them (or in this case in them) for more than a second. That doesn't mean they can't orgasm, just no bodily fluid swapping. And that is the most I have ever thought about ghost sex. I feel...weird now. lol

That's exactly what I assumed too!  Only I was too chicken to write it and you weren't.

[Maelstrom]

21 hours ago, possibilities said:

Maybe I'm just cranky. I don't know. I guess we'll know soon enough if things get better.

For me the disappointment comes from the fact that I know this show can do better, because they frequently have in the past. Somehow it's harder to take when something great lets you down rather than when something generally mediocre continues to be, well, mediocre. My 2¢, FWIW.

That said, I do think the limited/rushed preproduction time due to the strike, along with the complications of Sheila and Rose's pregnancies, are a big part of why this season has been IMO largely subpar. So, I'm still hoping season 4 can get back on track.

[kathyk2]

19 hours ago, shura said:

Yes, that’s exactly what it is.  This is not friendship, it is a different kind of relationship.  They are selfish burdens and she feels an obligation to take care of them and they love each other.  It’s a parent-children relationship.

During the first two seasons the ghosts would give advice to Sam. They kept Sam and Jay from being scammed. This season has been about plot instead of character development.

[chaifan]

16 hours ago, Maelstrom said:

That said, I do think the limited/rushed preproduction time due to the strike, along with the complications of Sheila and Rose's pregnancies, are a big part of why this season has been IMO largely subpar. So, I'm still hoping season 4 can get back on track.

I really haven't noticed any effect from Rose's pregnancy.  They don't seem to be going to any great lengths to hide her.  Yes, she was in front of the laptop in the beginning of the episode.  And came in with a giant laundry basket later.  But in the striptease scene, she was sitting on the couch in full view.  And Flower has simply not been written into the episodes.  I'd disagree that this season is sub-par, I've been enjoying it as much as ever, but I'd have a harder time pinning it on the pregnancies.  (Unless you're a big Flower fan and just miss her.  That I could understand.)

 

[Maelstrom]

I agree Rose's pregnancy hasn't had a big impact on what we've seen on the screen. I was just thinking that it had to be at least a consideration in the writers' room, that maybe she would be limited physically on what she could/would do, and they'd have to write accordingly. And I'm not saying this was the case for Rose but I have read of some actresses needing reduced shooting time during pregnancies, which would obviously affect the scripts. Though I bet we can all agree the wardrobe budget must have been increased this season to account for extra coats and sweatshirts. :D

As for Sheila, obviously any storylines for Flower had to be shelved this season, though I'm looking forward to more Flower next year. And she is one of my favorites - I find that she and Pete bring a lot of heart to the show that the other ghosts, while hilarious, don't necessarily replicate, and I do feel her absence in that respect. JMO, of course. :)

[Badsamaritan]

On 4/13/2024 at 10:37 PM, kathyk2 said:

I think Flower was the heart of the ghosts. We see how much Thorfin loved her. She had some sweet talks with Hetty and Trevor. The writers have also introduced two new characters which have caused conflict. I've wanted Jay to see the ghosts from the beginning so Sam doesn't have to cope with them by herself.

THIS!! This is why the ghosts have felt obnoxious to me this season - because Flower has been absent. For all her wackiness, she is absolutely the sweetest of all the ghosts. I don't think there's a mean spirited bone in her body, and not having that character with the pure heart to offset the childish demands of the others has been felt by me.  

It just feels like Jay has been treated like the resident butt monkey this season, and I need for him to get a few wins before the finale. 

[Mabinogia]

11 minutes ago, Badsamaritan said:

It just feels like Jay has been treated like the resident butt monkey this season, and I need for him to get a few wins before the finale. 

It's a typical case of "a little goes a long way". When Jay is occasionally overridden by the wants/needs of the ghosts it can be funny, but when it is just constant, and he doesn't seem to get a win, it becomes frustrating/annoying. 

I do agree with those saying that without Flower, a bit of the shows heart seems to be missing. I still love it, don't get me wrong, but that warm hug vibe isn't as strong as it has been in past seasons and that could be because our little flower child isn't there to balance the more selfish tendencies of the others. I do think Pete is a big sweetheart, but he can't pull them all from the brink on his own, and he's been dealing with Carole which has got to be a challenging his usually sunny outlook. 

It just goes to show how powerful the right mix of characters is. Without Flower the ghosts have become unbalanced. 

[Driad]

A poltergeist is a noisy or unruly ghost or spirit. People who believe in them say they like to make unexplained noises or move things.  I once visited some people who said their house had a poltergeist.  I sat in front of a bookcase, and a book fell on my head.  The people said that book must have something very meaningful in it for me.  I read the book, but nothing.  (The house was old and a bit rickety, so that's my explanation.)

[shapeshifter]

12 minutes ago, Driad said:

A poltergeist is a noisy or unruly ghost or spirit. People who believe in them say they like to make unexplained noises or move things.  I once visited some people who said their house had a poltergeist.  I sat in front of a bookcase, and a book fell on my head.  The people said that book must have something very meaningful in it for me.  I read the book, but nothing.  (The house was old and a bit rickety, so that's my explanation.)

Thank you! I thought that poltergeists were more known for unexplained movements and noises. 
In this episode "poltergeist" was used to define Saul and explain why he was able to appear at the Woodstone and then leave (because he was attached to a person rather than a building). 

About the book that fell on your head: If you could go back there, you could check the degree of levelness of the house with an app on your phone. 
My condo was built as recently as 1973, and it has floors slanting every which way, as do most structures in this area. 

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 4/13/2024 at 1:44 PM, shapeshifter said:

Ooo. I think the writers missed an opportunity for Alberta and Saul to do it on the kitchen counter while Jay was unwittingly having a midnight nosh. 

But then other ghosts might have witnessed them. 

On 4/13/2024 at 1:42 PM, Chit Chat said:

Realistically, they could've worked it out where Jay was alone in the bedroom watching a TV show and Sam was elsewhere in the house, and then he'd have no idea that Alberta was in the room with the other ghost. 

I prefer the idea of a couple of hours a day, maybe when Jay is on his laptop/phone (as we know, the only TV is in a public room.)

On 4/13/2024 at 1:44 PM, shapeshifter said:

The ghosts are like children to Sam, and she is like their mother. 
The ghosts have "lived" such sheltered lives, that in many ways they are childlike. 

I believe Jay said that it was like living with 8 children.

I wonder if the show will last long enough that Sam and Jay actually have a child, who will then have multiple ghost aunts and uncles, but who will also eventually outgrow seeing them.  If the child discusses them in school, they will be dismissed as imaginary friends.  They could even passively "babysit" while Sam was elsewhere in the house, as one of them could fetch her if needed.

 

 

 

Edited April 16 by ItCouldBeWorse

[PaulE]

6 hours ago, Badsamaritan said:

It just feels like Jay has been treated like the resident butt monkey this season, and I need for him to get a few wins before the finale. 

Exactly.  I'd like to see the ghosts doing something to help Jay out in some way.

6 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

It's a typical case of "a little goes a long way". When Jay is occasionally overridden by the wants/needs of the ghosts it can be funny, but when it is just constant, and he doesn't seem to get a win, it becomes frustrating/annoying. 

Yes to this.  And it then becomes an issue: why would he keep putting up with this?  I think his character has been well developed and he deserves better than wearing a virtual "kick me" sign all the time.  I also like the theory that the reason this season has been a bit more mean-spirited is because of Flower's absence.

When you think about it, it's in the ghosts' best interests to see that they don't inconvenience Jay and Sam too much.  After all, they could get so fed up they sell the property (I'm sure they'd get a good price for it, enough to start over elsewhere), and then the ghosts would lose all their agency unless the new owner also has an accident that allows them to see the ghosts as Sam did.   And what if the new owner decided to tear down the house and, say, use the property as farmland?  Now you've got a bunch of ghosts forced to live in the open, essentially homeless.  Thor and Sass might be able to cope with that but I'm not sure about the others.  Just sayin'.

[Maelstrom]

57 minutes ago, PaulE said:

And what if the new owner decided to tear down the house and, say, use the property as farmland?

Or worse, build a bunch of condos to rent out as AirBnBs? 😱

[shapeshifter]

On 4/13/2024 at 1:44 PM, shapeshifter said:

Ooo. I think the writers missed an opportunity for Alberta and Saul to do it on the kitchen counter while Jay was unwittingly having a midnight nosh. 

3 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

But then other ghosts might have witnessed them. 

How about if the other ghosts are watching reruns of The Nanny?

 

3 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I believe Jay said that it was like living with 8 children.

Yes!

 

3 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I wonder if the show will last long enough that Sam and Jay actually have a child, who will then have multiple ghost aunts and uncles, but who will also eventually outgrow seeing them.  If the child discusses them in school, they will be dismissed as imaginary friends.  They could even passively "babysit" while Sam was elsewhere in the house, as one of them could fetch her if needed.

I love all of this👆. 

[chaifan]

9 hours ago, PaulE said:

And it then becomes an issue: why would he keep putting up with this?  I think his character has been well developed and he deserves better than wearing a virtual "kick me" sign all the time. 

Here's my explanation...  the only time Jay is being abused* by the ghosts is what is portrayed on screen, amounting to short periods of time in a day or so per week, approximately 12-16 weeks out of the year.  The rest of the time, the ghosts are not total pains in the ass and leave Sam and Jay alone to run their business and have normal lives.  During this time, Jay is continuing their weekly D&D games, cooking delicious aromatic food for which the ghosts express their appreciation, and having conversations with ghosts who aren't in the room with him.  Since on-screen Jay has never mentioned constant abuse, and he has mentioned several times that he likes the ghosts and thinks they are cool, I have to assume that the only abuse that occurs is what we see, and the rest of the time is hunky dory. 

* I use the word "abuse" here very lightly.  It would probably be better described as an annoyance or bother. 

TLDR:  Calm down people, it's just a tv show.  About ghosts.

 

Edited April 16 by chaifan

[iMonrey]

18 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Thank you! I thought that poltergeists were more known for unexplained movements and noises. 

The word "poltergeist" is German for "noisy ghost." But poltergeists are, in fact, commonly associated with being attached to a specific person rather than a place. So moving to a different house, for example, won't rid you of the poltergeist if you have one.

[chediavolo]

On 4/12/2024 at 9:50 AM, desertflower said:

Yes, nice to see Geoffrey Owens, and as a New Girl fan it was really fun seeing Lamorne Morris too.

Both bachelor parties were hysterical, the fife music and the dinosaur clicking cracked me up. Would LOVE to see outtakes, as I’m sure they did not get through that with straight faces on the first take. 

Does anyone else have a lot of trouble using this site on their phone? On mine it constantly tries to reload the page and the ads are insane. Guess I need some kind of ad blocker.

 

Yes this site has been terrible for months! Especially on the iPhone but it’s not great on the iPad either. Instead of all the policing going on so as not to God forbid, get any widdle baby under 30’s feewings hurt by someone saying the wrong thing or even word, , they should concentrate on the way this site is not working. 

[Orbert]

On 4/16/2024 at 11:12 AM, iMonrey said:

The word "poltergeist" is German for "noisy ghost." But poltergeists are, in fact, commonly associated with being attached to a specific person rather than a place. So moving to a different house, for example, won't rid you of the poltergeist if you have one.

Thank you for that!  I only knew the "noisy ghost" definition, and thought it was a little bit cheesy how they'd come up with their own definition, apparently just for a pun on the word "guest".  But if the attachment angle is also part of the original meaning of the word, then I'm fine with it.  Whew!

[possibilities]

I guess they didn't want to use the noisy aspects, but I think it might have been a good gag to have the slapstick element combined with the romantic/clingy element. And Jay would have heard or seen the things going clank, right?

[Annber03]

Before this episode aired, I thought that if they were going to have a stripper for one of the parties (which they did), that the poltergeist would've been attached to the stripper :p. That could've been a really funny way to go, too.