S45.E13: Living the Survivor Dream

[Jodithgrace]

Finalist Resumes

Jake: I tried a whole bunch of things that flopped. And I made fire.

Austin: I won a bunch of immunity necklaces, and pretty much ran the game.

Dee: Hold my beer

 

[iMonrey]

10 hours ago, Silver-hyren said:

was rooting for Jake to win simply because he has to be the worst Survivor player ever.  Every move he tried to make blew up spectacularly in his face, he was everyone's target to vote out, and he made a bunch of boneheaded mistakes in the final challenges.  Yet despite it all, he made it to F3.

The show USED to be "outwit, outplay, outlast." In other words, Survive. Jake won the Survive part IMO. He certainly had to work the hardest for it.

I never really felt the Emily love. She realized early enough she was a fifth wheel in the Reba alliance when she still had numbers to do something about it but chose to work with them instead of against them. Katurah had the same problem. There was a chance there for just a couple of tribals to break up that alliance and instead of taking it they just helped them get further. It was really frustrating. In that respect, most of the people on the jury deserved to be sitting there.

Did Dee "deserve" to win? Sure. But it's less about how well she played than about how badly the others did. Again, JMO.

[SummerDreams]

The forum not working and people not being able to comment on this ridiculous finale is the perfect response to this season. I couldn't even watch the reunion, I really can't stand Dee at all. Another boring and unfair season with the 6 tribes of three that screws some people is over.

[30 Helens]

I think it’s funny how people think all lawyers are great orators and unbeatable at crafting arguments for the jury. Trial lawyers, maybe. But most lawyers are basically paper pushers— they do research and write briefs, and may not interact with clients at all. You can be a good lawyer AND a terrible public speaker.

Thank god Jake got to make fire. I was really worried for him throughout most of the finale. I thought that if at least one thing didn’t go his way, they’d find him at the bottom of a cliff, having thrown himself off the edge. More than once, I expressed hopes that he’d get some therapy. He was one of my favorites this season, but oh man was he not cut out for this.

Speaking of favorites, didn’t Katurah turn out to be quite the disappointment. She had everything she (and Jake, and I) wanted right in the palm of her hand, and she blew it. But I guess that supports Dee’s position as a worthy winner. Unlike Katurah, she didn’t blink. She was never someone I was rooting for, but she was consistent. She did what she needed to do and she was rewarded for it. Good for her, I guess.

[dancingdreamer]

On 12/22/2023 at 11:29 PM, Chicago Redshirt said:

Sorry but I don't see Katurah winning as a likely scenario.

I wonder why they were  so adamant  about not taking her to the F3. Hmm.  A lot of people  liked her on the jury. As for Dee, didn't  know who she was the first part of the season. I knew she was on Drews team, he ran things for awhile.

I've loved and remember a few winners , Dee won't be one of them.

[Lady Calypso]

7 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I never really felt the Emily love. She realized early enough she was a fifth wheel in the Reba alliance when she still had numbers to do something about it but chose to work with them instead of against them. Katurah had the same problem. There was a chance there for just a couple of tribals to break up that alliance and instead of taking it they just helped them get further. It was really frustrating. In that respect, most of the people on the jury deserved to be sitting there.

It's interesting because back when Emily was giving confessionals such as "Drew and Austin brought me in to this vote. This means they must want to work with me!", I thought she was an idiot for trusting them as they would never actually choose her over the Reba 4 and they were only using her as a number like literally everyone else (even Kaleb initially used her as a number before they got close). 

But I think Drew/Austin really DID like Emily, Drew in particular, and really did consider her a number for them and also liked working with her at the same time. Now, Dee/Julie obviously did not feel the same way so Emily was always a number for the men there, but at the time for Emily, it DID make sense to work with them. Nobody else really wanted to work with Emily while Drew/Austin did, which is a testament to the relationship they took the time to build with her. I don't blame Emily for working with the people who gave her an actual shot. I think, had Kaleb actually stayed, she would have turned on Reba 4 sooner, though. Emily's no idiot; she worked with Reba 4 because, let's face it, Belo was a mess even early on. I'd gamble my life on the tribe that isn't falling apart, even for a bit. But I think Emily had leverage to break up the Reba 4 by the time she WAS voted out. She had Drew who would have voted with her and they would have likely gotten Katurah/Jake since Emily ALSO put in the time with them. 

I think the only mistake Emily possibly made WAS not taking out Julie the Tribal Kellie went home. I think that would have been the only shot to make a move. But, again, at that point, Belo was a mess. Bruce/Katurah were still at each other's throats, Kellie was in an extremely strong position, Kendra was all over the place, and Jake was showing how bad he was at the game. I think, had Emily turned, Reba would have turned on her sooner since they were able to control Belo's votes still, at that time. So the next best time to turn was probably the Tribal that Bruce went. Had Emily found a way to convince Katurah to stick with Bruce a little bit longer, they would have had the majority. But, again, the issue is Katurah hated Bruce and never wanted to really work with him. So had she jumped on that bandwagon, that was a sinking ship. Emily was in no real good position with a strong Reba 4 and a messy Belo tribe. Kellie was the only good player on Belo but at the time of Kellie's departure, had she taken out Julie instead, Emily was 100% next on the chopping block.

Katurah, on the other hand, had actual chances to work with Belo and chose not to. That's on her. Katurah literally said that she'd rather work with Reba to get out her Belo tribe, but she had to know she formed a relationship with Reba way too late for it to matter. She didn't have the relationship with even one Reba member the way Emily did. I think that's the difference.

[Chicago Redshirt]

6 hours ago, dancingdreamer said:

I wonder why they were  so adamant  about not taking her to the F3. Hmm.  A lot of people  liked her on the jury. As for Dee, didn't  know who she was the first part of the season. I knew she was on Drews team, he ran things for awhile.

I've loved and remember a few winners , Dee won't be one of them.

My guess as to why Dee/Austin were adamant about not wanting Katurah in the F3:

1. Jury management. You can't tell someone about to be on the jury "You're no real threat to pick up votes, so yeah I'm going to bring you along." You massage their ego and tell them like Dee did "You're a huge threat, I like you, you're good enough, smart enough and gosh darn it people like you."

2. When the choice is between Jake and Katurah, Katurah's easily the bigger threat. Katurah was well-liked and didn't get anybody to write her name down. Although she couldn't really take credit for any impact on the game other than as a lackey to the Reba Four. she didn't bungle any moves other than the F5 vote. Whereas Jake was repeatedly on the outs, repeatedly tried things that didn't work, and fumbled an idol. 

But her being a bigger threat for votes than Jake doesn't mean that she's an actual big threat for win. I am struggling to think of how she could get four votes in any combination of F3. She is never getting a single Reba vote, and almost certainly never getting Kaleb or Emily's.

I guess it's possible that Katurah runs the table with former Belo voters and has Kellie, Kendra, Bruce and Jake all vote for her, either forcing a tie, or running into an actual win where Dee and Austin split the remaining votes 2-2 or 3-1. (I assume if all the other votes go to either Dee or Austin, whatever the tiebreaker in such a procedure would favor Dee/Austin. It seems that Jake talked about him possibly having to cast a vote, so I'm assuming third place casts a vote in such a scenario. Anyone know for sure?)

But I think it extremely doubtful that superfan Jake would vote Katurah against the performances that Dee, Austin and Julie had. I also think it doubtful that Bruce would vote for Katurah, although maybe he didn't ever pick up on her animosity toward him. I could see Kellie potentially voting Katurah if she remained bitter, but her time in Ponderosa seemingly cured her of that. Kendra is goofy enough that I could see her saying that Katurah should win because she's a Pisces (or whatever)

[Chicago Redshirt]

7 hours ago, 30 Helens said:

I think it’s funny how people think all lawyers are great orators and unbeatable at crafting arguments for the jury. Trial lawyers, maybe. But most lawyers are basically paper pushers— they do research and write briefs, and may not interact with clients at all. You can be a good lawyer AND a terrible public speaker.

Heck, even most trial lawyers don't do a ton of public speaking, since most cases end up with settlements and plea bargains. For those cases that do go to trial, in many cases the lawyers will have lived with them for at least a year and will have ample prep time to prepare questions and arguments, which is easier than spontaneously being articulate on the spot when faced with potential curveball questions. And of course, real-world jurors are supposed to be objective and follow a set of court instructions, which makes trying to come up with arguments to appeal to them somewhat easier. Survivor jurors get to decide who gets their vote based on whatever the heck criteria that they want, and in some cases, what might resonate with Juror A might alienate Juror B, and in some cases there is just no way Juror C is ever going to vote for you. Like I doubt that Jake would have gotten any more votes even if Dee and Austin were to have responded to every jury question with the finger, and Jake channeled the spirits of Johnnie Cochran and Cochran the Survivor winner.

[peachmangosteen]

50 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I guess it's possible that Katurah runs the table with former Belo voters and has Kellie, Kendra, Bruce and Jake all vote for her, either forcing a tie, or running into an actual win where Dee and Austin split the remaining votes 2-2 or 3-1. (I assume if all the other votes go to either Dee or Austin, whatever the tiebreaker in such a procedure would favor Dee/Austin. It seems that Jake talked about him possibly having to cast a vote, so I'm assuming third place casts a vote in such a scenario. Anyone know for sure?)

A tie at at F3 FTC has already happened. In season 36, Wendell and Dom tied and the other person in the F3, Laurel, cast her vote for the winner.

[AntFTW]

16 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Had Jake told her that he was going to use his idol on her, I wonder if that really would have changed things.

I’m doubtful. I honestly think she would have used that information to make Jake a target. She didn’t trust him to write Dee’s name so I’m doubtful that she would have trusted that he would play the idol for her.

[watch2much]

I like Jake.  I felt sorry for how he was demeaned throughout the show.  I wish he would have pointed out at final tribal that despite everything, he was the one sitting up there (at least getting a third place prize).  but I knew he was going to tell Austin about the idol.  I attribute some of that to the wine. He could have decided who to take out if he kept it a secret.  While I think Dee deserved to win, I didn't like her much.  She seemed to take so much delight in the plight of the others.  I guess she was loyal to Julie but in the end she even hedged that by saying she couldn't write her name down.  I think she's a calculating type and I wouldn't be surprised if the whole Austin showmance was a ploy.  we certainly didn't see her doing any soul searching before deciding to lie to him.  I can only hope he came to his senses after he learned about it and cooled the relationship.

[iMonrey]

11 hours ago, 30 Helens said:

I think it’s funny how people think all lawyers are great orators and unbeatable at crafting arguments for the jury.

It always amuses me when reality show competitors lie about their profession because they think it will make others see them as a threat. People have lied not only about being lawyers, but being everything from teachers and nurses to cops and doctors. I suppose there's some basis to it but it also strikes me as amusingly arrogant. "Uh-oh, I better not tell anyone I'm a {insert profession here} because then they'd know how good I am!"

36 minutes ago, watch2much said:

I think she's a calculating type and I wouldn't be surprised if the whole Austin showmance was a ploy.  we certainly didn't see her doing any soul searching before deciding to lie to him.  I can only hope he came to his senses after he learned about it and cooled the relationship.

I'm not especially inclined to read too much into it, but it wouldn't surprise me if she simply used him as a shield. He was good at comps and kept her safe when she didn't win them herself. I wouldn't put it past her. The fact that Austin couldn't believe she warned Julie about the plan to vote her off says a lot about how hoodwinked he was by her. And how dim he is.

[AntFTW]

9 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

It always amuses me when reality show competitors lie about their profession because they think it will make others see them as a threat. People have lied not only about being lawyers, but being everything from teachers and nurses to cops and doctors. I suppose there's some basis to it but it also strikes me as amusingly arrogant. "Uh-oh, I better not tell anyone I'm a {insert profession here} because then they'd know how good I am!"

That also comes with the thought of "this person doesn't need the money because they probably make a lot of money" to justify voting for someone.

[Lantern7]

Erik’s take on the finale:

Seems about right to me. Poor Jake.

[Chicago Redshirt]

11 hours ago, watch2much said:

I like Jake.  I felt sorry for how he was demeaned throughout the show.  I wish he would have pointed out at final tribal that despite everything, he was the one sitting up there (at least getting a third place prize).  but I knew he was going to tell Austin about the idol.  I attribute some of that to the wine. He could have decided who to take out if he kept it a secret.  While I think Dee deserved to win, I didn't like her much.  She seemed to take so much delight in the plight of the others.  I guess she was loyal to Julie but in the end she even hedged that by saying she couldn't write her name down.  I think she's a calculating type and I wouldn't be surprised if the whole Austin showmance was a ploy.  we certainly didn't see her doing any soul searching before deciding to lie to him.  I can only hope he came to his senses after he learned about it and cooled the relationship.

I attribute at least part of his telling Austin to wanting to make a Big Move. 

As someone who has watched enough Survivor to have used various winners as mnemonics for numbers, Jake has to know that it's best to keep one's mouth shut about idols. 

But just having people vote for him and him producing an idol to nullify their votes probably wasn't flashy or good enough in his mind.

He wanted so badly to try to next level the Reba Three by getting them to think he was going to play his idol so that they make Katurah the target and then nullify their votes. Because that would have been splashier with the jury.

[iMonrey]

23 hours ago, AntFTW said:

That also comes with the thought of "this person doesn't need the money because they probably make a lot of money" to justify voting for someone.

Not if you're a nurse. Or a teacher. Nobody thinks nurses and teachers are rich. Most people who lie about their profession are basically saying "I don't want them to know how smart I am." Basic humble brag.

[bankerchick]

12 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

As someone who has watched enough Survivor to have used various winners as mnemonics for numbers

This.  I have watched every episode of every season since about Season 10, I couldn't tell you who won last year, never mind S25.  Of the three he named, I vaguely remember Denise, and would have bet money she didn't win.

[Chicago Redshirt]

7 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Not if you're a nurse. Or a teacher. Nobody thinks nurses and teachers are rich. Most people who lie about their profession are basically saying "I don't want them to know how smart I am." Basic humble brag.

It's not just bragging about smarts, if you want to call it that. Especially when there is at least some basis that people might take that information and reach the conclusion "that person is smart, let me vote against them." 

It's trying to manage whether people think you are smart, trustworthy, and/or wealthy.

Contestants try to manipulate how they are perceived for all sorts of reasons. Gabler IIRC hid that he's a doctor in part because he was concerned that if people knew that they would use it against him by arguing or concluding that someone else "needed"/deserved the million more than he did. 

Sometimes it matters, sometimes it doesn't. Jake probably related to Katurah better thinking she was an office manager who was toying with the idea of going to law school than he would have if he knew that she was a lawyer with years of experience over him, let alone one that probably has a dim view of prosecutors generally. People though generally picked up on her having stereotypically positive qualities of a lawyer like being persuasive

[AntFTW]

28 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Not if you're a nurse. Or a teacher. Nobody thinks nurses and teachers are rich. Most people who lie about their profession are basically saying "I don't want them to know how smart I am." Basic humble brag.

For a lawyer. There’s a perception that lawyers, in general, make a lot of money. Same for a doctor.

Theres also the idea that people assume that you’re lying about your occupation. People think you’ll pull a sympathy card if you’re a kindergarten teacher and you talk about how cute and sweet your students are, or how underpaid you might be. Maybe you’re a military veteran that went through a traumatic experience during your service, and that’ll just pull on the jury’s heart strings and “we can’t sit next to him/her at the end.”

Even when you’re truthful, people have a number of reasons to think you’re lying anyway.

[Nashville]

On 12/24/2023 at 12:04 PM, iMonrey said:

It always amuses me when reality show competitors lie about their profession because they think it will make others see them as a threat. People have lied not only about being lawyers, but being everything from teachers and nurses to cops and doctors. I suppose there's some basis to it but it also strikes me as amusingly arrogant. "Uh-oh, I better not tell anyone I'm a {insert profession here} because then they'd know how good I am!"

IMHO it’s as much superstition as it is anything else.

Example: when Derrick Levasseur won BB16, many people attributed his win to some kind of super duper deception skills associated with his undercover experience - a view frequently espoused by Derrick himself.  This worked out great for Derrick, of course, but it also painted a 40-foot-high target on the back of any other law enforcement officials venturing into the reality show environment - to the point every cop on every reality show thereafter refused to admit they were law enforcement, for fear of being targeted for immediate elimination on account of their vocation.

[Nashville]

On 12/23/2023 at 1:41 AM, AntFTW said:

I don't know how to describe Jake's game.

I do, but the reference will undoubtedly date me beyond words. 😆  Jake embodied for us a new archetype - the Sad Sack:

• Always the underdog, fighting against insurmountable odds - and losing without fail.
• Always constructing grandiose plans, only to see them constantly collapse short of fruition.
• Occasionally being teased with a key to redemption at the very periphery of his reach, but then failing to grasp it by virtue of stumbling over his own feet.

Edited December 27, 2023 by Nashville
Failing, not falling. Stupid autocorrect

[AntFTW]

3 minutes ago, Nashville said:

I do, but the reference will undoubtedly date me beyond words. 😆  Jake embodied for us a new archetype - the Sad Sack:

• Always the underdog, fighting against insurmountable odds - and losing without fail.
• Always constructing grandiose plans, only to see them constantly collapse short of fruition.
• Occasionally being teased with a key to redemption at the very periphery of his reach, but then falling to grasp it by virtue of stumbling over his own feet.

Yeah, that's pretty much it 😂

[gorgy]

Jake, The Boston lawyer, got a crash course is Murphy's Law

[Katrina Kate]

My brother used to begin his letters home with drawing ‘Kilroy was here’ peeking over the top of the page and ending with a Sad Sack profile.

He was not in the services, just newly married and homesick for our mom’s cooking.

[Nashville]

1 hour ago, Katrina Kate said:

My brother used to begin his letters home with drawing ‘Kilroy was here’ peeking over the top of the page and ending with a Sad Sack profile.

He was not in the services, just newly married and homesick for our mom’s cooking.

Relatable; my wife is an excellent cook now, but when we first married the only recipe in her repertoire was mac and cheese.  The first three months we were married, I lost about 25 pounds.

…. but then again, I didn’t marry her for her cooking.  😉

[Jobiska]

So the biggest questions I am left with are:

Is Dee the longest-toed winner ever?

Why all that time on Jake fainting etc. in early episodes if it never really amounted to anything?  I have been waiting for him to collapse and be medevac'd out for the entire season!

Do the editors think we all lurrrrve Kendra?   I felt like the final tribal council and the reunion were basically "yeah yeah Austin and Dee with a side of Jake but look!  Look at Kendra patting her heart and smiling!  Look at her nodding!  Look at her sympathetic looks!"  

[Heathrowe]

Between Dee winning and the boards being down this late and zzzzz… 

But I’ll post anyway. Dee cruised to the win because a weirdly unshakable alliance. That alliance, plus all of the new tribal changes, really didn’t let anyone else play the game. Poor Jake was basically playing by himself. As they say on instagram, no one wanted to collab with him. Katura was very likable, but how could she win when she basically did nothing other than be non-threatening and make it through?

Jake should have focused less on trying to make crazy big moves and more on planting seeds of doubt between Austin, Dee, Julie and…the skinny guy whose name I’ve already forgotten. I really enjoyed Jake but I think he played another season’s game - not this season, if that makes sense? 

I think Austin could have made a bigger deal of himself - I think he is much smarter than he let on to everyone (see puzzle solving) and he played a great social game. Except for the part where he blabbed to Dee, I would have voted for him. But that was not the move of someone playing to win!

A fun season that lost its zest for me once Emily was voted out, but that usually how Survivor is for me. It’s very rare I’m invested in multiple players.

 

 

[Nashville]

5 hours ago, Jobiska said:

Do the editors think we all lurrrrve Kendra?   I felt like the final tribal council and the reunion were basically "yeah yeah Austin and Dee with a side of Jake but look!  Look at Kendra patting her heart and smiling!  Look at her nodding!  Look at her sympathetic looks!"  

Don’t know where Production would ever get an idea like THAT.

[awaken]

22 hours ago, Nashville said:

I do, but the reference will undoubtedly date me beyond words. 😆  Jake embodied for us a new archetype - the Sad Sack:

• Always the underdog, fighting against insurmountable odds - and losing without fail.
• Always constructing grandiose plans, only to see them constantly collapse short of fruition.
• Occasionally being teased with a key to redemption at the very periphery of his reach, but then failing to grasp it by virtue of stumbling over his own feet.

Owen came close to fulfilling this archetype!

[azshadowwalker]

Finally got around to watching the last two episodes 

On 12/22/2023 at 10:54 PM, millennium said:

 

Jake should have made the point that neither Dee nor Austin would have made it to final three without the other.   That he was his own person, while they were just two halves.

No one, not even Jake, gets to the end without other people. Besides that, Dee--as much as I didn't like her--very much was her own player. She won immunity on her own. She stayed smart and kept her cards close while Austin played with his dick. She played the social game that made people want to be in alliances with her.

Jake didn't win immunity. His social game was so bad he couldn't even get Katurah to vote for Dee when she wanted to vote for Dee because of his dumbassed "big move" obsession and inability to build a trustworthy alliance at any point.

As for playing with his dick, the fact that Drew rewarded Austin for doing so finally broke my moderate support of Drew. He didn't vote for the best player. He voted for the guy who fucked up both of their games because he not only couldn't keep his mouth shut but he was also easily played by his "showmance" partner who could keep her mouth shut. Drew is an idiot. So is Austin. Both deserved to lose. 

The best player won. Good for her. And I hope she follows Emily's demand of spending none of her winnings on that foolish boy.

[Nashville]

3 hours ago, azshadowwalker said:

Jake didn't win immunity. His social game was so bad he couldn't even get Katurah to vote for Dee when she wanted to vote for Dee because of his dumbassed "big move" obsession and inability to build a trustworthy alliance at any point.

Given the lack of trust (and trustworthiness, for that matter) demonstrated by Katurah in that vote, I doubt it would have helped Jake’s game to any degree if he had told - and convinced - Katurah of his willingness to play his idol on her. I’d be willing to bet that armed with that knowledge (and the desire to do some resume-building of her own), Katurah would have attempted to flip the script on Jake and vote him out instead - figuring a flashy move of that sort might score her some points with the jury.

[jsm1125]

I’m hardly a Drew or Austin fan, and do quite like Dee, but I don’t blame Drew for voting for Austin at final tribal council.

I think it’s valid to vote for someone you’re closest to or just flat out like more than the others. 

Kendra’s vote does puzzle me a bit, but I’m assuming she felt a closer connection to Austin from their time during the swap than she ever did to Dee?

[azshadowwalker]

On 12/28/2023 at 8:16 PM, Nashville said:

Given the lack of trust (and trustworthiness, for that matter) demonstrated by Katurah in that vote, I doubt it would have helped Jake’s game to any degree if he had told - and convinced - Katurah of his willingness to play his idol on her. I’d be willing to bet that armed with that knowledge (and the desire to do some resume-building of her own), Katurah would have attempted to flip the script on Jake and vote him out instead - figuring a flashy move of that sort might score her some points with the jury.

He didn't have to tell her he was playing the idol on her. It took at least two conversations about the possibility of voting Dee out. The initial one, which he said it was a good idea but he had to think about it, and the second "how dare you make me swear on Nana" conversation. Or it was one very long one that had them changing positions and moving around their environment. Should never have taken that long. What difference does it make whether it's Dee or Julie? If Katurah wants Dee (which was always the right move for both of them, anyway) you agree right then, not leaving it open in her mind whether you're committed to that. Not like Jake had trustworthiness on his side. 

As for the person above going on about, "voting for who you like," whatever. Drew's an idiot just like his buddy. That’s why they didn't win. Austin played with his dick. Drew was too stupid to recognize that and put a stop to it. Instead he rewards it. Dee has a million dollars because of those two being idiots. Good for her. 

Edited December 31, 2023 by azshadowwalker

[Nashville]

In the end, I stand by my midseason evaluation: Dee won because everybody NOT named Dee played like a fucking idiot.

[Hanahope]

I still don't get why Katura did not trust Jake. I don't recall seeing any scene where he said he was voting for one person, then changing to vote for another.

Sure, he's out for himself, but wouldn't that suggest he'd want to take out a big target like Dee, rather than someone playing so under the radar we barely remember her, Katura, or someone who is the nice mama, but except for endurance type challenges (which the final challenges are definitely not), hasn't even come close to winning, Julie?  Jake couldn't take out Austin, so Dee was absolutely the next logical choice. 

its a shame that Katura didn't think it through.  Who knows who would have won that final challenge and who would have gone to fire otherwise.

That said, Dee is fine winner.  She definitely showed her chops in winning challenges, strategy and social game.  Her winning really made we wish they did the older type reunion and winner announcement so she could have shared it with her family on stage.  

  

[Nashville]

6 hours ago, Hanahope said:

I still don't get why Katura did not trust Jake. I don't recall seeing any scene where he said he was voting for one person, then changing to vote for another.

Sure, he's out for himself, but wouldn't that suggest he'd want to take out a big target like Dee, rather than someone playing so under the radar we barely remember her, Katura, or someone who is the nice mama, but except for endurance type challenges (which the final challenges are definitely not), hasn't even come close to winning, Julie?  Jake couldn't take out Austin, so Dee was absolutely the next logical choice. 

its a shame that Katura didn't think it through.  Who knows who would have won that final challenge and who would have gone to fire otherwise.

Since my early youth Miss Jane Marple has been my all-time favorite of Agatha Christie’s characters, and one of Miss Marple’s regular descriptors of people has always stuck with me: saying someone was was “so sharp they’d cut themselves”.

What Miss Marple meant by this was that in the course of constantly trying to be the Cleverest or Smartest Person In the Room, the subject of her comment would oftentimes end up doing something cataclysmically stupid - and shoot themself in the foot as a result.

Katurah is the living embodiment of this sentiment.

[Chicago Redshirt]

On 1/2/2024 at 2:21 PM, Hanahope said:

I still don't get why Katura did not trust Jake. I don't recall seeing any scene where he said he was voting for one person, then changing to vote for another.

Sure, he's out for himself, but wouldn't that suggest he'd want to take out a big target like Dee, rather than someone playing so under the radar we barely remember her, Katura, or someone who is the nice mama, but except for endurance type challenges (which the final challenges are definitely not), hasn't even come close to winning, Julie?  Jake couldn't take out Austin, so Dee was absolutely the next logical choice. 

its a shame that Katura didn't think it through.  Who knows who would have won that final challenge and who would have gone to fire otherwise.

That said, Dee is fine winner.  She definitely showed her chops in winning challenges, strategy and social game.  Her winning really made we wish they did the older type reunion and winner announcement so she could have shared it with her family on stage.

  

But the thing is, Jake did not exactly play a logical game. He wanted to make big moves so bad that he was capable of trying anything, despite the possibility of it blowing up in his face or not making sense. Remember how he tried to "save" Kaleb in a plan that would require people to risk going to rocks? As the segment from the interview below shows, Katurah does.

The TLDR of the interview is that it took a lot longer than we were shown to get Jake off Julie and onto Dee. But Katurah says her spidey-sense was tingling about Jake being up to something and so that caused her to flip. I still don't get why it caused her to make this particular flip, as voting Julie isn't likely to help Katurah. 

Also keep in mind that Katurah could be spinning, self-deceiving, after-the-fact rationalizing, etc. Like when she says that she would have won in a F3 without Dee, that's just wrong. 

 

https://ew.com/survivor-45-katurah-topps-finale-mistake-still-haunts-me-interview-8418971
 

Quote

ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY: You were laser focused on getting Dee out of this game. You convinced Jake to go along with you, he swore on his Nana, and then you switched your vote to Julie at the last second. What led to that change?

KATURAH TOPPS: Oh my God, Dalton. It is the moment that still haunts me to date. It was so right there, and nobody beats me up about that more than me, so I totally get why everybody's like, “What is going on?” Honestly, it just came down to trust. I mean, they showed it a little bit in the episode that I really was working to convince Jake. He was laser focused on it had to be Julie, and I was like, “No, you don't get it.” And I literally laid out, “This will happen at five, this will happen at four, and every scenario that Dee is still in the game after five, we lose.” And I thought that maybe pulling him in on that would kind of get him on the same page with me.

It took hours though, all afternoon. I was drilling him and he finally did come around, to his credit. He was like, “I'm on board with the plan.” But I knew that Jake had a history of really wanting to make big moves so bad that I thought sometimes he overlooked the strategic part of what was happening. Me and Jake had worked so closely with the Kaleb thing at the merge split, and I remembered being like, “Why would he ever think as a Survivor player that going to rocks at final 12 makes sense?"

And then if you are going to try to convince somebody to do it, why would you think that telling them moments before? You're confirming all their suspicions that they were on the outs, that they have been excluded, and that you guys aren't going to add them or see them as a true alliance? Moments like that were in my head at that final five. We've been here with Jake before. We've had him pitch something crazy or want to do something so flashy that he forgets what's important. And my gut kept saying, "He's lying about something." Every alarm bell in my body [was going off].

I remember that feeling so strongly, and my life, my background, the way I've grown up, the things I've seen — you guys got a little bit of that in the show. I've seen some horrors. It has been hard. It's been rough, and I've learned that I need to listen to that. If my body is saying “Alert! Alert! Alert! This person is lying to me,” it literally has meant life or death. It literally could mean you may be homeless, something terrible may happen. And I just couldn't shake the feeling. And it was like you always listen to it and it's always right.

Honestly, I knew that Jake was hiding and lying about something. I thought it was that he would write my name down, and it turned out that the thing he was lying and hiding about was that he was going to play his idol for me, which is so crazy. Strategically, I didn't really vibe with what Jake was doing. I was like, “Why'd you tell Austin that you have an idol? Everybody knows you have this idol. You're saying you're going to play it for yourself, but I'm getting some energy from you that's saying, I got a special trick up my sleeve.” And what I've seen is Jake's tricks up his sleeve don't always benefit me and aren't always strategically where I think they should be.

Edited January 3 by Chicago Redshirt

[Carey]

3 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Also keep in mind that Katurah could be spinning, self-deceiving, after-the-fact rationalizing, etc. Like when she says that she would have won in a F3 without Dee, that's just wrong. 

If I created a video game or whatever that included Katurah winning (even sans Dee), it would crash. Even in my dreams.  That third to last tribal doesn't help her case

[Nashville]

1 hour ago, Carey said:

If I created a video game or whatever that included Katurah winning (even sans Dee), it would crash. Even in my dreams.  That third to last tribal doesn't help her case

The only F3 scenario I can see where Katurah had a solid chance of winning is if she ended up sitting with Brandon and Hannah; anything beyond that, and I have serious doubts.

[seacliffsal]

I think Katura is just shifting the blame to Jake so that she doesn't have to take any responsibility for her own choices and decisions.  It seems that more and more people do this.  This way Katura can totally state that she would have won (?) had it not been for Jake's gameplay.  It justifies her perspective that she was unbeatable.  The fact that she claims it took a couple of hours before Jake would agree to her plan informs me she should have trusted him as it's the players who agree TOO QUICKLY to someone else's plans that are untrustworthy (how many confessionals do we watch in which someone tells us that they will agree to everything others say so that the target isn't on them, but will then do/vote/act however they want?).  Jake seems to have really given it thought and then finally agreed to the plan.  And, if I were Jake, I would NEVER have told Katura that I was planning on using my idol for her as she demonstrated that she was not trustworthy.

[Montana77]

On 1/2/2024 at 9:17 PM, Nashville said:

Since my early youth Miss Jane Marple has been my all-time favorite of Agatha Christie’s characters, and one of Miss Marple’s regular descriptors of people has always stuck with me: saying someone was was “so sharp they’d cut themselves”.

What Miss Marple meant by this was that in the course of constantly trying to be the Cleverest or Smartest Person In the Room, the subject of her comment would oftentimes end up doing something cataclysmically stupid - and shoot themself in the foot as a result.

Katurah is the living embodiment of this sentiment.

That might be a little on the harsh side; Katurah was definitely thirsty to make a Big Move, to be sure - but it was her own insecurities which led her to chicken out, not out-clevering herself.

 

18 hours ago, Nashville said:

The only F3 scenario I can see where Katurah had a solid chance of winning is if she ended up sitting with Brandon and Hannah; anything beyond that, and I have serious doubts.

Can't argue with this one, though.  :D

[jsm1125]

In what world does it make sense for Katurah to go to rocks at the Kaleb vote, when she and Jake had a 2/3 shot of being rocked out of the game? Wouldn’t Austin have seen those odds and then been willing to risk rocks?

[Chicago Redshirt]

12 hours ago, jsm1125 said:

In what world does it make sense for Katurah to go to rocks at the Kaleb vote, when she and Jake had a 2/3 shot of being rocked out of the game? Wouldn’t Austin have seen those odds and then been willing to risk rocks?

None. Katurah was absolutely right that Jake's "plan" to try to save Kaleb was a stupid one and was absolutely right to not go along with it at that point.

But even without the benefit of hindsight, it should have been obvious that it would have benefited old Belo to try and pull Kaleb and Emily in an alliance against Reba. Or to start targeting Reba to ensure Belo maintained the numbers. Or to truly make cross-tribe alliances so that might trump any Reba-Strong sort of situation. Or do anything besides just implode.

I think that this might have collectively been the worst group of players in the half-dozen or so seasons I've watched in their entirety. Basically out of the 18 or so, only Kaleb, Emily and the Reba four showed any glimpse of understanding strategy and being able to execute it. You had a couple of quitters, a few more self-delusional people, and people whose strategy seemed to be cutting of their noses to spite their faces.