S02.E04: His Grace the Duke

[AntFTW]

Quote

After receiving discouraging news about the Met, Bertha deals with rumors that are swirling about Larry. Fearing her sister’s disapproval, Ada asks Marian to cover for her as she continues to see Mr. Forte. Later, Bertha vies for position with the visiting Duke of Buckingham, and, in Tuskegee, Peggy navigates a tense dinner with Mr. Fortune and Booker T. Washington.

Air date: November 19, 2023

[BeatrixK]

I can't even with my love for this episode:

GO ADA...GO ADA!!!!

Turner has no idea how outmatched she is!

And Bourdin and Mrs. Bruce...my 'ship dreams are becoming a reality!!!!!

 

[Straycat80]

Enid! Turners first name is Enid. And Mr. Winterton didn’t know about her past. Interesting. Now let’s see how Enid is going to get back at Bertha for stealing away ‘her Duke’.
And the Rev asked Ada to marry him, that was fast! And I thought their courting and proposal was so sweet. 
Poor Larry, he was really in love with Mrs. Blaine, but his mother was right, she was too old for him and couldn’t give him an heir, which back then was important. Good episode tonight. 

Edited November 20, 2023 by Straycat80

[BeatrixK]

And I'm trying to give...anything about the valet and his daughter but I just don't care.

At all.

I even checked between the sofa cushions....not a speck.

[ChlcGal]

First, I love this speedier pace.  So much happens in an episode!

ENID!  That's as bad as Bertha and Gladys.  These poor women.  Also it would appear that her husband doesn't know about her past.  That ain't good.  I do wonder who told about her past even though it could have been anyone.  It's not like she kept a low profile.

Peggy is just too naive for words.  Also I'm really not wanting her to hook up with a married man no matter how much they have in common.  

Thank God that Larry/Mrs Blaine story is done. It was ick.

Ada's engaged!!!!  That was so sweet.  I hope she and Luke move in with Agnes, like a Gilded Age Three's Company sitch.

Those previews make it look like the Dollar Princess storyline will certainly come to pass.

I'm so glad the Russells reconciled.  I don't like it when they're at odds.

God help me, I even like Marian this season.

ETA: I'm even riveted by John's clock storyline.  I really want him to figure out the issue and become well-to-do:)

Edited November 20, 2023 by ChlcGal
Thoughts like jiffy pop

[AntFTW]

8 minutes ago, BeatrixK said:

And I'm trying to give...anything about the valet and his daughter but I just don't care.

At all.

I even checked between the sofa cushions....not a speck.

How about the forbidden abyss between your center console and your driver seat in your car? Nothing?

---

Ada's face when Agnes asks where the flowers came from... HILARIOUS!

Obviously, we're all thinking that Bertha spilled the beans to Mrs. Astor about (ENID!!!!!!!). I'd be shocked if it was anyone else. I want to be shocked.

Uh oh! Oscar is getting all the tea from Turner.

Why must Armstrong be a grinch ALL. THE. TIME?!?

Edited November 20, 2023 by AntFTW

[peridot]

Marian has really stepped into it now - she attended the tea as a pseudo-mother, and now the little girl wants her as an actual mother.  I would be so annoyed if father and daughter tried to force me to ride with them. 

Peggy's boss should have known better - what man in that time would open the door half-undressed?  His discussion with Booker was interesting too, I understand his anger at playing nice with former slave owners.  I also understand why Booker and his wife are playing nice with them.

The newly named Enid should have know better than try and stir up shit with someone who hasn't done anything to her.  Now she's the focus of Bertha's ire, and anything could happen now.

The valet's son in law is very cruel.  I really hope the terms all came from him, and not the daughter.

Agnes deserves to eat alone for dinner, since she's been such a shit to her family members.  I hope Ada goes ahead and get married to get away from such a stifling environment.

[ChlcGal]

12 minutes ago, AntFTW said:

Why must Armstrong be a grinch ALL. THE. TIME?!?

That woman is easily the worst person on this show. I just want an anvil to fall on her head.

[AntFTW]

2 minutes ago, ChlcGal said:

That woman is easily the worst person on this show. I just want an anvil to fall on her head.

I just wanted her to fall and break a hip but I'm perfectly fine with your suggestion.

[Salacious Kitty]

I dunno. Rev. Forte moved pretty fast. I think he thinks Ada has money. I don't see a happy ending here. 

Enid! *snort* 

Who will finish the renovations on Mrs. Blaine's house now that she's dumped her architect? 

[AntFTW]

26 minutes ago, ChlcGal said:

God help me, I even like Marian this season.

I was onboard for all the tomato-throwing at Marian last season but her and Ada are just so cute plotting together! 😭

[Sailorgirl26]

Game, set, and match to Bertha in this episode--Turner's tantrum at the end was the best -- "I don't want another duke, I want this one!" Apparently dukes are like sandbox toys!! 

Love George and Bertha reconciled, and Marian is SO much more enjoyable this season. I love her and Ada cahooting so Ada can see her now-FIANCE! Go Ada!! Those peonies were gorgeous! 

I also love that they just gave into the soapiness this season. 

And it was totally Bertha--or possibly George as part of his efforts to get back on Bertha's good side--who got the bug put into Mrs. Astor's ear about Enid. Headmaster Charleston totally knows she's lying. 

House of cards, Enid Turner. House. of. Cards. 

Edited November 20, 2023 by Sailorgirl26

[chaifan]

27 minutes ago, Straycat80 said:

And the Rev asked Ada to marry him, that was fast! And I thought their courting and proposal was so sweet. 

I was on the "sweet" train, until the proposal.  Now my spidey sense is telling me it was too fast, that something's up.  Maybe I'm just jaded from too many people on this show with ulterior motives.  Maybe I just truly don't get the "I've spent less than 10 hours in your presence, but I'm in love and know I want to spend the rest of my life with you".

26 minutes ago, BeatrixK said:

And I'm trying to give...anything about the valet and his daughter but I just don't care.

At all.

I even checked between the sofa cushions....not a speck.

😂 I'm right there with you.  It's a snoozefest of a plot line.

25 minutes ago, ChlcGal said:

Peggy is just too naive for words.  Also I'm really not wanting her to hook up with a married man no matter how much they have in common.  

Yep, same here.  I'd love for her to find her intellectual match, but I'm not in for an affair, which only has one possible ending for Peggy.  I want Mrs. Publisher to have an untimely off screen death, setting Mr. Publisher free and he can woo Peggy after an appropriate mourning period. 

I am loving the story line with BTW, though, and loved the dinner discussion.  I felt both had valid points. 

10 minutes ago, peridot said:

Agnes deserves to eat alone for dinner, since she's been such a shit to her family members. 

I actually felt bad for her.  It felt like this never ever happens, and it looked so sad.

Enid, Enid, Enid...  seems like she's setting things up to either outright allege or at least strongly infer that she and George had an actual affair, or maybe even that he assaulted her or something.  I was actually hoping it was going in a different direction, that Enid would approach Bertha with a deal - Enid would change her support to the Met if Bertha would back Enid's story about being a "companion", not a lady's maid.  I think Bertha would go for that.  I personally don't think Bertha ratted her out.  I'm betting it was one of the "downstairs" people, gossiping with Mrs. Astor's staff.  Turner had to assume that would happen at some point. 

I like the woman Oscar is courting, I hope this goes somewhere and Oscar doesn't screw it up.

Did George really just find "accounting errors"?  Or was that an excuse and he gave the Met a boat load of cash?

Marion is oddly tolerable this season.  I'm ready to push the kid in front of a carriage, though. 

 

[AntFTW]

Aurora is the best bestie of the show. She has all the tea to spill.

Just now, chaifan said:

Did George really just find "accounting errors"?  Or was that an excuse and he gave the Met a boat load of cash?

I don't know of any accounting fixes that puts more money in the bank. I'm guessing he gave a boatload of money, or "lent" it.

[Sailorgirl26]

3 minutes ago, chaifan said:

that Enid would approach Bertha with a deal - Enid would change her support to the Met if Bertha would back Enid's story about being a "companion", not a lady's maid.  I think Bertha would go for that. 

 

I think this is likely where this is heading. We'll see in another week or two. 

And George totally paid to get the Met back on track. There is nothing he wouldn't do for Bertha. We should all have a George Russell in our lives. 

Edited November 20, 2023 by Sailorgirl26

[ChlcGal]

2 minutes ago, chaifan said:

Marian is oddly tolerable this season.  I'm ready to push the kid in front of a carriage, though. 

 

I know I shouldn't say this because it's wrong, but that kid's look is just off somehow and I feel vaguely uncomfortable watching her.

[AntFTW]

1 hour ago, chaifan said:

ep, same here.  I'd love for her to find her intellectual match, but I'm not in for an affair, which only has one possible ending for Peggy.  I want Mrs. Publisher to have an untimely off screen death, setting Mr. Publisher free and he can woo Peggy after an appropriate mourning period. 

I am loving the story line with BTW, though, and loved the dinner discussion.  I felt both had valid points.

I think so as well, but it's easy having "Mr. Publisher's" POV all the way from New York... where he lives... far away from the South.

1 hour ago, chaifan said:

Enid, Enid, Enid...  seems like she's setting things up to either outright allege or at least strongly infer that she and George had an actual affair, or maybe even that he assaulted her or something.  I was actually hoping it was going in a different direction, that Enid would approach Bertha with a deal - Enid would change her support to the Met if Bertha would back Enid's story about being a "companion", not a lady's maid.

I think that's a reasonable deal to offer, considering that they just lost their box at the Academy. I would alter that deal though. Enid should convince her old-money husband to bring some of his old money friends to The Met, and if Enid (Enid! Enid! Enid! Enid!) is successful with that, Bertha would back her story.

1 hour ago, chaifan said:

I like the woman Oscar is courting, I hope this goes somewhere and Oscar doesn't screw it up.

I like her too! I'm so curious about the story she told to Oscar.

Edited November 20, 2023 by AntFTW

[Jodithgrace]

“Oh, I see what you did here. You forgot to carry over a few zeros. You actually have $200,000, not $2,000.  Not to worry…it could happen to anyone…in charge of a giant project like an opera house.” Right.

Could the good reverend be a con man? I hope not. Ada deserves some happiness after being tied to her miserable sister all these years.
 

I noticed that when Agnes dined alone, she still had three different wines. No gilded age equivalent of a tv dinner for her!

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, ChlcGal said:

ETA: I'm even riveted by John's clock storyline.  I really want him to figure out the issue and become well-to-do:)

He's become a favorite of mine. Watching him enjoying the conversation at the bee dinner made it all the better.

1 hour ago, Salacious Kitty said:

I dunno. Rev. Forte moved pretty fast. I think he thinks Ada has money. I don't see a happy ending here. 

This just seems like a silly set up for a gold digger. He's a minister and has been one for years, never having married, even when he was a younger, hotter reverend? He's a pretty bad con man if that's his game. And now he thinks he's struck gold with the spinster sister of a wealthy widow? Without doing any due diligence about her actual fortune? I know Ada's former boyfriend thought she was rich, but wasn't that because he remembered her family before her brother lost everything? 

I know the proposal seemed fast, but it's the kind of courtship you see in old books all the time. He's a middle aged man who took care of his mother for years and he genuinely does seem to have things in common with Ada. It would make a much better story, imo, if they're just two lonely people whose obstacle is another more selfish lonely person.

Also, it seems like if he was a con man he wouldn't seem so exactly like Ada herself. That is, he'd be charming and flattering, not shy and gushing at the same time. Sure a good con man might match himself to his target, but this guy's been really open about just liking Ada a lot without putting her in any bad situations (looking at you, Mr. Raikes).

 

Edited November 20, 2023 by sistermagpie

[lucindabelle]

swooon.

 

if he is a con man nobody told Robert Sean Leonard cuz dude was crying. I thought he would cry when she hesitated to say yes to the opera and then as he was steeling himself to propose his face was very emotional.

They’ve done con men stories twice on this show. Apart from anything else it’s boring. I kind of like the idea that he knows what he wants and sees no point in wasting MORE time. If he’s going to be rejected he wants to know now but when she said yes to the opera WITHOUT ASKING AGNES he had hope.

chemistry!

middle aged true love is an INTERESTING storyline. 
 

why can’t Mrs Blaine give him an heir though? Laura Benanti is 44 and that’s about how old Mrs Blaine is surely? I mean… it’s harder to conceive for sure but it would be unusual for her to be menopausal.

but Bertha also wasn’t wrong… sooner or later that relationship needed to end. She may have felt a BIT more than a summer fling but I doubt it was as much as all that. Of course for him he’s in a sex and admiration haze.

hard to be certain of what she thinks though since Vertha made such a good case for “this is best for Larry.”

turners temper tantrum shriek as she ran up marble paneled walls (did they film at marble house?) was hilarious.

[txhorns79]

1 hour ago, chaifan said:

I was on the "sweet" train, until the proposal.  Now my spidey sense is telling me it was too fast, that something's up.  Maybe I'm just jaded from too many people on this show with ulterior motives.  Maybe I just truly don't get the "I've spent less than 10 hours in your presence, but I'm in love and know I want to spend the rest of my life with you".

I will say in this time period, it's not uncommon that people marry despite barely knowing one another.  Besides, they almost touched hands once!  That's basically the 1880s equivalent of moving in together.  It would also be my hope since they already did a plotline last season where a potential gold digger was interested in Ada, that they wouldn't just do it again.   

I loved every moment of Turner going full Veruca Salt running up those stairs.  This is the show I've always wanted The Gilded Age to be.

1 hour ago, chaifan said:

I'm ready to push the kid in front of a carriage, though. 

I give her a pass.  Her mom is dead, and she thinks she's found a lovely new mother that even her father likes.  Realistically, her dad needs to have a discussion with her about her behavior. 

 

24 minutes ago, lucindabelle said:

 

but Bertha also wasn’t wrong… sooner or later that relationship needed to end. She may have felt a BIT more than a summer fling but I doubt it was as much as all that. Of course for him he’s in a sex and admiration haze.

I was with Bertha.  Larry is too immature to handle the relationship.

[buttersister]

Quote

turners temper tantrum shriek as she ran up marble paneled walls (did they film at marble house?) was hilarious.

I burst out laughing.  Julian’s gotten over pretending.

[EtheltoTillie]

We still don’t know how Enid snagged that rich guy.  Anyone?

. 
 

[AntFTW]

2 minutes ago, EtheltoTillie said:

We still don’t know how Enid snagged that rich guy.  Anyone?

. 
 

I believe that was explained in the last episode by one of the Russell servants, and it seems like we will be seeing him again in the next episode according to the trailer.

[RachelKM]

1 hour ago, chaifan said:

Marion is oddly tolerable this season.  I'm ready to push the kid in front of a carriage, though. 

Right?  I have really enjoyed Marian and I once posted this about her:

Quote

Raikes: Do you love me?

Marian: What do you think?

Me: I genuinely have no idea and at this point hope you don't and this blows up in your stupid, placid face.

She's at least more animated and I like her interactions with Ada and Oscar in particular.

2 hours ago, peridot said:

Peggy's boss should have known better - what man in that time would open the door half-undressed?  

Yeah. While I can't regret the view, my reaction was "Sir!"  No effing way he would answer is door without his dressing gown on and tied.  Through, for that matter, knocking on a man's door at the crack of day is a little inappropriate too. Not as inappropriate as a bare chested greeting. But still, no ma'am. 

54 minutes ago, lucindabelle said:

turners temper tantrum shriek as she ran up marble paneled walls (did they film at marble house?) was hilarious.

My friend and I cracked up 🤣 Then we rewound and watched again and shouted "I want this Duke! We found him! He's mine!!!"  And, Turner's (I will not call her Enid,much less Mrs Winterton) face as she delivered the lines storming up the stairs was hilarious. 

Speaking of Turner, she is even dumber than I thought. So, her husband definitely does not know her background and she decided to strut back into NYC and the HOME WHERE SHE WORKED as a lady's maid. And she can't keep it together enough not all but blurt the truth out to the old man she duped.

Lady, divorce is a thing in this era.

2 minutes ago, EtheltoTillie said:

We still don’t know how Enid snagged that rich guy.  Anyone?
 

Not precisely. Something about letters praising one of his interests... I think.  Whatever it was, Turner clearly thinks she has sufficiently duped Not Richard Attenborough that she's untouchable.  This episode proved she is not. 

[EtheltoTillie]

HBO using actresses in multiple roles. First Cynthia Nixon. Now Brittany Bradford, who plays the producer on Julia.  She was Mrs. BKW here. 
(I may have binged the first three episodes of Julia season 2 already.)

Edited November 20, 2023 by EtheltoTillie

[Snazzy Daisy]

Wow! Bertha goes straight for the jugular with Mrs. Blaine. No mercy‼️

“For me, no one living is more important than you.”

Awww! A romantic robber baron…🥹

Really Aunt Ada? In church? On the lips? With tongue? 🤦🏻‍♀️

He’s love-bombing you and you’re intoxicated‼️

 

[EtheltoTillie]

Enid’s hilarious tantrum at the end was foreshadowed by her mad dash to be first to greet the Duke, sprinting like a Walmart shopper on Black Friday. If she was being retained to teach Bertha New York manners back in her “companion” days, she certainly forgot them here.  And the Duke was apparently not interested. Bertha cleverly took advantage. 

Edited November 20, 2023 by EtheltoTillie

[EtheltoTillie]

BTW, switching place cards—what a great soap opera move. Enid is totally outmatched by Bertha. 

Edited November 20, 2023 by EtheltoTillie

[Sarah 103]

4 hours ago, Straycat80 said:

Enid! Turners first name is Enid. And Mr. Winterton didn’t know about her past. 

I'm still mad we didn't get to hear the story, which I am guessing was probably close to the truth, that she told Oscar during dinner. 

4 hours ago, ChlcGal said:

I do wonder who told about her past even though it could have been anyone.  It's not like she kept a low profile.

I have the exact same question. I'm not sure it's important, but it's something I'd like to know. 

4 hours ago, ChlcGal said:

Ada's engaged!!!!  That was so sweet. 

I agree. I was rooting for them so I hope the marriage happens. 

4 hours ago, ChlcGal said:

I'm so glad the Russells reconciled.  I don't like it when they're at odds.

I root for the Russells as a couple. They are an unstoppable force when united. 

4 hours ago, ChlcGal said:

God help me, I even like Marian this season.

I think it's because Marian is a shipper on deck for Ada and the Reverend, and that's fun to watch. Also, they are giving her just enough to keep her in the story, but not making her the central focus, which works better. 

4 hours ago, ChlcGal said:

I'm even riveted by John's clock storyline.  I really want him to figure out the issue and become well-to-do:)

Me too. It's a D plot, but I'm oddly invested in it. 

3 hours ago, AntFTW said:

I was onboard for all the tomato-throwing at Marian last season but her and Ada are just so cute plotting together! 😭

It's fun watching Marian be a shipper on deck for Ada, but also having the young student play shipper on deck for her widowed father and Marian. 

3 hours ago, Sailorgirl26 said:

I also love that they just gave into the soapiness this season. 

Honestly, me too. Maybe that's part of why this season is so much better. They have fully embraced the over the top soapiness of the upper class storylines. 

3 hours ago, chaifan said:

I am loving the story line with BTW, though, and loved the dinner discussion.  I felt both had valid points. 

It reminded me of One Night in Memphis. All of the different perspectives and how to deal with being Black and trying accomplish something in a White dominated/controlled world. 

3 hours ago, chaifan said:

I was actually hoping it was going in a different direction, that Enid would approach Bertha with a deal - Enid would change her support to the Met if Bertha would back Enid's story about being a "companion", not a lady's maid.  I think Bertha would go for that. 

If Enid Turner were smarter and more like Bertha, that's what she would have done. However, Enid is not nearly as clever as Bertha. I agree with you that Bertha would have gone for the deal.

3 hours ago, Sailorgirl26 said:

And George totally paid to get the Met back on track. There is nothing he wouldn't do for Bertha. We should all have a George Russell in our lives. 

YES! This is part of the reason why I love the domestic side of him. At work, he's a horrible robber baron, but at home he is almost the perfect husband and father. He supports Bertha and will try to move heaven and earth to make her happy and give her what she wants.  

3 hours ago, Jodithgrace said:

I noticed that when Agnes dined alone, she still had three different wines. No gilded age equivalent of a tv dinner for her!

This makes me wonder, what was the gilded age equivalent of a tv dinner? A sandwich? 

1 hour ago, RachelKM said:

Lady, divorce is a thing in this era.

Only if one party can prove infidelity during the marriage or both parties agree to a lie. 

[RachelKM]

14 minutes ago, Sarah 103 said:

Only if one party can prove infidelity during the marriage or both parties agree to a lie. 

True (at least in New York). But money can by a lot. 

Actually, he probably wouldn't divorce her. He really wouldn't need to unless, for some reason, he wanted to marry someone else. He could simply stop funding anything.

[Roseanna]

3 hours ago, lucindabelle said:

why can’t Mrs Blaine give him an heir though? Laura Benanti is 44 and that’s about how old Mrs Blaine is surely? I mean… it’s harder to conceive for sure but it would be unusual for her to be menopausal.

She has no children although she has had a long marriage. Of course it could also be her late husband's fault.

I doubt if she even wants to become pregnant - not only because of her age but general dangers of childbirth. 

4 hours ago, Sailorgirl26 said:

And it was totally Bertha--or possibly George as part of his efforts to get back on Bertha's good side--who got the bug put into Mrs. Astor's ear about Enid. 

Not necessarily. 

As many here said before, it was a mistake from Turner to come to Russell's house where servants recognized her because servants use to gossip with other servants.

[Roseanna]

2 hours ago, EtheltoTillie said:

Enid’s hilarious tantrum at the end was foreshadowed by her mad dash to be first to greet the Duke, sprinting like a Walmart shopper on Black Friday. If she was being retained to teach Bertha New York manners back in her “companion” days, she certainly forgot them here.  And the Duke was apparently not interested. Bertha cleverly took advantage. 

Yes, the duke gave up Enid's invitation to Newport without hesitation and accepted Bertha's. That's doesn't show good manners - a gentleman should keep his word. But I suppose it's meant to show that he has a clear intent to come to the US - to find a heiress for a wife. Enid is no longer any use for him, whereas Bertha has two children - she didn't say she had a daughter, but even if they were both sons, they socialize with eligible girls. And it may be the duke has now got the information about Russell's children and fortune if he hadn't it already. 

Do you think Oscar will become Enid's ally - he ma have a grudge against Mr Russell who refused his proposal. 

[BellyLaughter]

I can’t work out if I’m meant to hate Mrs Blaine or not?!  Like is she just lonely and genuine or horny and using Larry lol 

[BeatrixK]

7 hours ago, Sailorgirl26 said:

I think this is likely where this is heading. We'll see in another week or two. 

And George totally paid to get the Met back on track. There is nothing he wouldn't do for Bertha. We should all have a George Russell in our lives. 

OOOHHHHH....I like where your head is at with the Bertha backing ENID's story in exchange for the box...because ENID's husband did say he had a ton of people who would follow him...so...yeah...Bertha will end up winning again! (And the previews looked like Enid was going to have one of the footman ruin the Duke's food.)

And Ditto on George totally buying himself out of Bertha's Doghouse.

As for the speed of Ada and the Rector - Oscar spent a few minutes pleading his case to Gladys during Aurora's reception...and idiot Rakes was all in on Marion with his proposal after a few afternoons at Mrs. Chamberlains and a gander at the Status of Libery torch. 

(Did anyone else audibly squeal when he touched her hand with his finger?  I am SURE I scared my upstairs neighbor with my 'OHMYGAWDYESSSSS!!!!') 

And while Ada and the Rector may not move in to Van Rhyn Central - Oscar and his new bride could easily move in after the marriage while they wait for their new house they will likely build to get finished. (And Oscar is gonna get engaged to the new, very nice girl. )  But they can't 1.) let Ada not be happy because this show isn't cruel like Game of Thrones (I call it Dames of Thrones, though.  heh) and 2.) Just leave Christine f*cking Baranski just sit there with no one to bounce sideways comments about is just a crime against television. 

Another interesting take was the look into post-slavery south.  I liked Washington's character explaining 'Going along to get along is how we have to do it down here, so don't confuse it as 'We just work hard and did well.'  I think it helps understand there was a lot more to the Black experience in post-civil war south than just a former slave who now had freedom.

2 hours ago, BellyLaughter said:

I can’t work out if I’m meant to hate Mrs Blaine or not?!  Like is she just lonely and genuine or horny and using Larry lol 

She is in the way of my dream of Marion and Larry falling in love and so she is a time waster if you ask me!  lol

 

/Although Larry helped Marion after her Raikes break up...so I hope she provides Larry a shoulder because they need to be a couple!!!!!

[BeatrixK]

5 hours ago, EtheltoTillie said:

We still don’t know how Enid snagged that rich guy.  Anyone?

. 
 

I seem to recall it being explained she wrote letters to Whitterton after his wife died praising his art collection or something and developing a 'friendship' through that correspondence.

[Roseanna]

2 hours ago, BellyLaughter said:

I can’t work out if I’m meant to hate Mrs Blaine or not?!  Like is she just lonely and genuine or horny and using Larry lol 

Well, Bertha was right by telling her the truth: their age difference didn't matter now, but after 20years he would be in the same situation as she was with her old husband - waiting her to die (and keeping a younger mistress). Understandable she didn't like that, whatever good they had now, sooner or later he would cease to love her or even hate to be bound to her.

Instead, Larry behaved very selfishly and childishly. He said he loved her and even wanted to marry her, but didn't care for her reputation during their relationship and hadn't thought a bit what kind of marriage they would have.  

(The difference to today is that they could divorce.)

[Roseanna]

17 minutes ago, BeatrixK said:

As for the speed of Ada and the Rector - Oscar spent a few minutes pleading his case to Gladys during Aurora's reception...and idiot Rakes was all in on Marion with his proposal after a few afternoons at Mrs. Chamberlains and a gander at the Status of Libery torch. 

Raikes had met Marion in their hometown and he visited her at Agnes's and then they met in the opera and his office and made a trip to listen to Red Cross woman...so, it wasn't very speedy.

Instead, Raikes had met the rich woman for who he jilted Marian, only two times - and from the beginning she flirted with him. 

[Haleth]

 

8 hours ago, chaifan said:

Maybe I just truly don't get the "I've spent less than 10 hours in your presence, but I'm in love and know I want to spend the rest of my life with you".

Yeah, Ada is this series' Edith.  She is not supposed to be happy.

8 hours ago, peridot said:

The valet's son in law is very cruel.  I really hope the terms all came from him, and not the daughter.

I'm guessing this is the case.  (I'm more interested in this than the clock thing.)

7 hours ago, Sailorgirl26 said:

We should all have a George Russell in our lives. 

His railroad employees would disagree.  😄

5 hours ago, RachelKM said:

Speaking of Turner, she is even dumber than I thought. So, her husband definitely does not know her background and she decided to strut back into NYC and the HOME WHERE SHE WORKED as a lady's maid. And she can't keep it together enough not all but blurt the truth out to the old man she duped.

She's an idiot to have tried to pull this off in NYC.  She should have gone to Chicago to nab a millionaire, where no one knows her.  (I doubt Bertha outed her, I think it's the servants.  The servants always know everything.)

5 hours ago, EtheltoTillie said:

BTW, switching place cards—what a great soap opera move. Enid is totally outmatched by Bertha. 

Loved that Bertha had the cojones to just march in and switch the place cards.

[ofmd]

This episode was a bit too heavy on the opera/ Bertha ascension scheming plot for me.

Then again, we had our own little opera plot, wherein the woman conveniently sacrifices her own happiness to spare the man some trouble/ hard decisions, I mean for the sake of the man's. You guys were half right, Larry really was in love. But so was Mrs Blaine. She didn't sing a hauntingly beautiful sad aria in the end, but thankfully, she also didn't die of tuberculosis, a broken heart, or falling into a sword, so that's a plus.

But I can't get over how naive he was about the whole affair. He may be inexperienced about relationships, but surely he knows the social norms. So I was very confused even when he first told his mother about the affair. Larry should be the one to decide if he wants to conform to the norms, and whether having an heir is important to him. But he never once thought it throug how they could make it work and what they might have to give up in terms of High Sciety, his job prospects, etc. I get that the young women of this era are often very sheltered, but find it hard to believe a young man would be.In short, Larry is a dummy.

Btw, I just read an article posted in the media thread, which mentioned a  "May/ November" romance. I'd personally call it "May/August" but ok.

Awww, I really dig Ada and the minister. He's a dark horse for such a shy man, this is practically a whirlwind romance! Let's hope Agnes won't be as ruthless, determined and resourceful as Bertha. I fear she might dig up something incriminating about him... I do feel for her, she'd be all alone if Ada got married.  Marian would still live with her, but not forever.

Bertha to the Duke: "We have two children not much younger than you." He looks like thirty to me, which would make him almost twice as old as Gladys, but ok. They're practically engaged already, aren't they?

Meanwhile, in the South... This storyline could have used a bit more more screentime. Ah, the age-old conflict of strategy, of how much an oppressed group can/ should'/ has to conform... It doesn't help that the Northerners  are not fully aware of what Black people in the South have to go through. - Ugh, That look across the table... I don't want an affair or even romantic feelings between Fortune and Peggy. Can't a man and a woman just be colleagues and friends?

Sadly, we had very little progress in Oscar's plot. I really want to see the "paid companion"! But I had to laugh when he mentioned his dreams of being a duke or king. That's Oscar, all right.

ETA: Judging Mr Fellowes from DA, I suspect the companion is either just a companion, or a dashing young man... meant for Oscar.

Oh, and Marian... I like her much better than last season, but it was very predictable that the girl now really wants her to marry her father. And could she not have talked to the teacher who oversaw the mother/ daughter event, so her presence wouldn't be (as) awkward?

"He is MINE!" The villainess is so ridiculous to me - cardboard evil and also dumb - that I can't take her or this plot seriously.

 

Edited November 20, 2023 by ofmd

[Roseanna]

10 minutes ago, ofmd said:

But I can't get over how naive he was about the whole affair. He may be inexperienced about relationships, but surely he knows the social norms. So I was very confused even when he first told his mother about the affair. Larry should be the one to decide if he wants to conform to the norms, and whether having an heir is important to him. But he never once thought it throug how they could make it work and what they might have to give up in terms of High Sciety, his job prospects, etc. I get that the young women of this era are often very sheltered, but find it hard to believe a young man would be.In short, Larry is a dummy.

I agree. The only explanation is that he is as a rich man's son he is accustomed to get all he wants (his father even let him become an architect) without giving up nothing. 

Also, when a person is in love, he can't think clearly such things as: how would I and my wife feel if people were sniggering at our age difference behind our backs? what kind of life we will have after 20 years?

And as Larry is 20ies, he probably haven't even thought if he wants kids or not, especially as at the age without sure contraceptives the problem was rather not to get too many and at too short intervals. 

[ofmd]

9 hours ago, chaifan said:

I like the woman Oscar is courting, I hope this goes somewhere and Oscar doesn't screw it up.

 

I like her, too. But if Oscar is as dishonest with her as he was with Gladys, I'm certainly not rooting for them. Now, if otoh, they have similar expectations of a marriage for whatever reason, I'm all in!

9 hours ago, Jodithgrace said:

Could the good reverend be a con man? I hope not. Ada deserves some happiness after being tied to her miserable sister all these years.

 

 

8 hours ago, lucindabelle said:

if he is a con man nobody told Robert Sean Leonard cuz dude was crying. I thought he would cry when she hesitated to say yes to the opera and then as he was steeling himself to propose his face was very emotional.

They’ve done con men stories twice on this show. Apart from anything else it’s boring. I kind of like the idea that he knows what he wants and sees no point in wasting MORE time. If he’s going to be rejected he wants to know now but when she said yes to the opera WITHOUT ASKING AGNES he had hope.

chemistry!

middle aged true love is an INTERESTING storyline.

 

Two and a half con men stories if you count Oscar's attempts with Gladys, which I do.

Agreed to the bolded!

But I don't trust this show to let Ada be happy, so I'm a bit cautious as well. Maybe he's not a con man, but has another deep dark secret. I hope not.

8 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I was with Bertha.  Larry is too immature to handle the relationship.

I agree for the reasons I meantioned in my previous post. But he won't mature unless he handles the relationship himself.

I also disagree with the notion that he undoubtedly would get tired of her in 20 years and cheat on her, and want heirs. There are, and have always been, relationships with older women and younger men that worked.

I also believe Gladys is too young to handle a relationship, but probably nobody will complain if and when she will be in love with the Duke or whoever aand get engaged in a hot minute. (And here I thought George's retconned wish for her to marry for love would be put to the test by her loving someone inappropriate! /jk, ofc I knew it wouldn't. But I digress.)

2 hours ago, BeatrixK said:

(Did anyone else audibly squeal when he touched her hand with his finger?  I am SURE I scared my upstairs neighbor with my 'OHMYGAWDYESSSSS!!!!') !!!!

Pure porn!

Edited November 20, 2023 by ofmd

[hoodooznoodooz]

Bertha changed the dinner table seating. One staff member tried to correct her. George spoke to him sternly, and that’s it?

[hoodooznoodooz]

Mrs. Blane really does not look that much older than Larry.

With regard to, on the next episode of The Gilded Age:

Spoiler

Does Bertha want Gladys to marry the Duke?

Did Enid instruct her Russell Family staff member connection to provide less than perfect English service? Did he spill something on His Grace?

 

 

[rollacoaster]

Ok...Looooord, the Russell reunion got me tearing up over here! The raw emotion and passion between those two! His pleading for forgiveness! The way she exhaled and melted in relief in his embrace! 

And the scene where he blocked that server at the fancy dinner, "Mrs. Russell is exactly where she should be." And fixing all problems by throwing copious amounts of cash at them...

Lord, I see what you have done for others...sigh.

Do we know who gave that dinner?

I found that Duke to be rather mediocre. And a boor to just ditch the Wintertons without notice. 

Peggy is such a sharp, bright, shining young woman. I want nothing but the best for her. I appreciate her storyline, but it feels kind of out of place among the more frivolous yet life and death sopa opera shenanigans of the rest of the show.

Social death vs potential actual death. 

[BeatrixK]

6 hours ago, Roseanna said:

 

Do you think Oscar will become Enid's ally - he ma have a grudge against Mr Russell who refused his proposal. 

I don't think so - Enid doesn't have the social clout roots and can't do much for him.  She, honestly, needs him more than he needs her because he can still provide her intel on her 'secret' getting out.  And the very first time Agnes lays eyes on her at a society function...or if Mrs. Astor spills the tea on why Mr. Enid lost his Academy box and Agnes puts two and two together the former lady's maid she had Mrs. Russell sack and Mrs. Whittington are the same person...ENID (Horrible name but fits the character perfectly) won't get away from Agnes' barbs, and Oscar has to know ENID can't help him at this point.

[BeatrixK]

OK - I don't know how I missed this the first time...but just rewatched the episode and I think I know why ENID was so pissed about the Duke.

Bertha's conversation with Larry's Cougar and then the tail end convo between Enid and her VERY OLD husband - DUH...Enid wants to have the Duke lined up for when her hubs kicks the bucket.  Enid is 'waiting for her husband' to die so she can ascend to Becoming A Duchess in three easy steps.

That makes sense why she was so pissed about 'MY Duke' - I think her long game involved becoming British Royalty, moving across the pond where no one has any clue she was a ladies maid, and Bertha just totally ruined it for her.

Edited November 20, 2023 by BeatrixK

[kay1864]

13 hours ago, chaifan said:

Maybe I just truly don't get the "I've spent less than 10 hours in your presence, but I'm in love and know I want to spend the rest of my life with you".

I thought that was the theme of this show 😆

[Carolina Girl]

13 hours ago, AntFTW said:

Obviously, we're all thinking that Bertha spilled the beans to Mrs. Astor about (ENID!!!!!!!).

I tend to think it was one of several people in addition to Bertha:  (1) Mrs. Astor's daughter Carrie (2) Ward McAllister, and (3)  Aurora Fain.  All of them spent time in the Russell household and may have seen Turner in her previous capacity as Bertha's lady's maid and gave Mrs. Astor the 4-1-1.  

Hell, it could have been one of the servants in the Russell household sending a "note" - we know Church loves to out people.  

 

[kay1864]

8 hours ago, Roseanna said:

Yes, the duke gave up Enid's invitation to Newport without hesitation and accepted Bertha's. That's doesn't show good manners - a gentleman should keep his word. But I suppose it's meant to show that he has a clear intent to come to the US - to find a heiress for a wife.

I think it’s more that he found Enid a phony bore, whereas Bertha has charming repartee and quick comeback.

Edited November 20, 2023 by kay1864