Kate Plus 8 - General Discussion

[VioletWitch]

After reading Kate’s interview, I wonder if she’s going to try and get Collin and Hannah full time? I’m curious about Collin because I still can’t see her letting him live there full time without some thereaputic intervention. I feel like this is going to be a messsssy situation 

[CrazyInAlabama]

The place Kate sent Collin to wasn't a good place, there were multiple investigations of the institute, and their idea of therapy.    Also, for years Collin wasn't even allowed to tell his father where he was, and Jon didn't even know where his son was, and what's going on with him.   I think Collin's major issue was his mother didn't like him, and treated him like garbage.   Once the two kids went with Jon full time, Kate had no say in their lives, and it's only too bad the others didn't escape too.  

I wonder if Collin is like my cousin as a teen.  Any time she didn't get her way, or thought she would get into trouble, she would make claims of abuse against her step father, her mother, or some random attempted kidnapper (not kidding about the kidnapper).     She would also claim she wanted to go live with her father, because she thought she wouldn't have any rules there either.     She had been proven to be lying so often, that no one put any stock in what she said.    The girl went to live with her father, and stepmother at about 15, and she was married by 17.     (Guess how many kids, and divorces too?)   She finally said a long time later it was just a tactic to get what she wanted.  

Edited September 13, 2020 by CrazyInAlabama

[Kellyee]

I feel terrible for all 8 of the kids. They've been exploited and they've been stuck in the middle of their warring parents for years. As bad as Kate is, I do wonder if Colin really does have issues. Either the ADHD as Jon claims, or something else. It's too bad his parents can't work together to help him. As soon as the gag order lifted, Jon was blabbing all over the television about Kate, which was more about revenge and money than about helping any of his kids. Now Kate can't nail Jon to the wall fast enough over this most recent incident. I hope all the kids eventually escape them.

I read recently that Kate has like 5 siblings. And I thought Jon had a brother or something. Maybe Colin is with one of them.

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The place Kate sent Collin to wasn't a good place, there were multiple investigations of the institute, and their idea of therapy.    Also, for years Collin wasn't even allowed to tell his father where he was, and Jon didn't even know where his son was, and what's going on with him.   I think Collin's major issue was his mother didn't like him, and treated him like garbage.   Once the two kids went with Jon full time, Kate had no say in their lives, and it's only too bad the others didn't escape too.  

Except we don't really know what goes on in Jon's house. We only see the highlight reel he shows us. This recent incident seems to indicate things are not as perfect as he claims.

 

 

Edited September 11, 2020 by Kellyee

[CrazyInAlabama]

I find it hard to believe that if Colin was hurt, bleeding and bruised the way he says, that Jon wasn't cited, or arrested on the spot.      Since Hannah says there was no assault by Jon, I believe her.   I wonder if Colin was promised something by a certain person, in return for causing issues with his father?    I wouldn't put it past manipulative people who want another show out of this.   

Edited September 13, 2020 by CrazyInAlabama

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Kellyee said:

Except we don't really know what goes on in Jon's house. We only see the highlight reel he shows us. This recent incident seems to indicate things are not as perfect as he claims.

Yup. Social media posts are an artificial reality manufactured by the user to present themselves in the most flattering light possible. 

And didn't Kate once not show up for a custody hearing for Colin? I find it hard to believe she'd get involved now. Well, I guess she could get involved so long as the PR benefits swing her way.

[EVS]

Jon’s side of the story. I tend to believe him. I have a sibling who was diagnosed with a personality disorder back in the 1980s. She pulled stunts like this in her teens and 20s several times.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8723281/Jon-Gosselin-denies-hes-investigated-abuse-Collin-claimed-hit-him.html

Edited September 11, 2020 by EVS

[babyhouseman]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8723281/Jon-Gosselin-denies-hes-investigated-abuse-Collin-claimed-hit-him.html#reader-comments

This tells more of Jon's side of the story. He said he didn't hit Colin and Hannah, who was there, said he didn't hit him. The case has been closed. According to J, C has PTSD from his mother's abuse. Colin still has problems and has threatened to run away. J said he didn't want to get into all this, but he had to defend himself in the media. 

 

[VioletWitch]

I would not be surprised if he has some form of RAD from the treatment center 😞 I hope he gets the help he needs 

[CarolMK]

I seem to remember years ago that it was Colin and Alexis who were expelled from their private school in kindergarten for being violent to their classmates and to adults. Maybe Colin has something like schizophrenia and has a hard time distinguishing reality from his own imagination. However, I don't think either  Jon or Kate should win any parenting awards. . Jon shouldn't bash Kate to the media, that gets tiresome and it's not going to help his relationship with the rest of his kids. We all know what Kate is like and everyone is sorry for all of her kids. In some way, I almost think she's got the ones that live with her brainwashed to go along with her thinking. I hope the twins were able to return to college this fall. If it's true that Kate's contract with TLC was cancelled, and I believe she wouldn't lie about that since she was in court, then what is she doing for money? That house and the private school tuition isn't cheap. The twins might have college loans but day to day living is still expensive. Maybe she invested her money from the show really well. 

[chabelisaywow]

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After reading Kate’s interview, I wonder if she’s going to try and get Collin and Hannah full time?

the only reason she would do this is to try and get another show.  Without all of them - there's no story. Jon made mistakes, but I really believe that Kate told them "you want to be poor?" "you want to live in a small house?" "you want to have crappy clothes?" "you want to go to public school?" "you want to never go on vacation again?" that's how she got them to stay. (I rewatched - and was surprised to see even in that HUGE house - they all still shared rooms - like what was the point of moving?)

This is the kind of BS the little ones would fall for and the superficial crap that appeals to Mady.  In the last episode, Kate said something to the effect of "Cara wants to do her own thing - but Mady can always convince her to do what Mady wants to do."  Cara was always closer to Jon - I think Mady influenced her to stay.

I really hope the remaining ones - give Jon at chance to hear him out.  In the same way - I hope Collin and Hannah will hear Kate explain herself.  Then they can all make up their own minds.

[pasdetrois]

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the only reason she would do this is to try and get another show. 

A blind gossip item reports a tip that Kate is out of money and needs another show. The speculation is that she's trying to leverage the incident to her advantage. That's not to say that something didn't happen between Collin and Jon. I dearly wish that Collin has his own legal advocate to help keep him safe through this horrible ordeal.

[ginger90]

Kate is a bitch for doing an interview about this situation.

[VioletWitch]

Yeah, it’s hard to tell who will choose what side as they grow older. 10 years ago, if anyone would have told me Hannah, Kate’s golden child and mini me, would have been the one to break away from her mother, I would have thought they were crazy. I would have thought Alexis, the rebellious quirky wild child, or Joel, the sweet natured easygoing one who adored his father. Collin was always a given. 

I hope Hannah still has some contact with her siblings. I know she was always close with Mady and Leah particularly. Funny enough she and Collin were the two who never got along. 

Edited September 12, 2020 by VioletWitch

[ouinason]

What happens is a home is always really hard to get to the bottom of from the outside.  Hopefully CPS handled things correctly and things are ok.

 

Kate doing an interview about this, when she basically abandoned Colin is rage inducing.  It doesn't matter what happens with Colin, she should keep her nose out of it, like she did by not bothering to show up to court for him.

[merylinkid]

4 hours ago, ouinason said:

ke she did by not bothering to show up to court for him.

If you can't even bother to show up for a hearing for your kid, you don't really care.    You have lost your right to comment on anything about his care.   

As for Colin, we don't know what really happened, but based on history, he has some issues.   Dealing with him has to be difficult.   Not condoning child abuse if that is what happened, but I can see a situation where he is acting out and Dad was trying to get him to stop.   What then happened is unknown.

[Adiba]

1 hour ago, merylinkid said:

If you can't even bother to show up for a hearing for your kid, you don't really care.    You have lost your right to comment on anything about his care.   

As for Colin, we don't know what really happened, but based on history, he has some issues.   Dealing with him has to be difficult.   Not condoning child abuse if that is what happened, but I can see a situation where he is acting out and Dad was trying to get him to stop.   What then happened is unknown.

Kate should shut her famewhore pie hole. She basically abandoned Colin in an institution--didn't bring him home for holidays or his birthdays (asfaik) and now has something to say? Jon is no saint either--I would have moved heaven and earth to find out where my son was--but at least he did get him out of that place and get custody.

 Regarding bolded: When my son was 4-5 years old we were walking down a busy street. He started to act up, feeling his oats, and walked very near the street on the curb. Told him to stop several times. He didn't and set foot in the street. The only thing I could do was grab him by the hoodie before he got hit by a bus. He yelled, "You choked me!" so loud strangers gave me the side eye. 

We don't know what actually happened, and I really hope for Colin's sake no abuse happened.

[ForeverPluto]

On 9/12/2020 at 6:32 AM, pasdetrois said:

A blind gossip item reports a tip that Kate is out of money and needs another show. The speculation is that she's trying to leverage the incident to her advantage. That's not to say that something didn't happen between Collin and Jon. I dearly wish that Collin has his own legal advocate to help keep him safe through this horrible ordeal.

Would people still watch a Kate Plus 8 style show now? It was one thing when the kids were still quite young. They are teenagers now and it would be weird trying to do a show centered around special trips, home life with a bunch of teenagers probably a lot snarkier and glued to their phones, etc. Unless she's aiming for a spin-off style show (a la Counting On) where the focus would be mostly on the kids' lives with occasional popups by Kate. Then again, no way would Kate take a backseat to anyone, least of all her own children.

[Kellyee]

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This tells more of Jon's side of the story. He said he didn't hit Colin and Hannah, who was there, said he didn't hit him. The case has been closed. According to J, C has PTSD from his mother's abuse. Colin still has problems and has threatened to run away. J said he didn't want to get into all this, but he had to defend himself in the media. 

I really hate how everyone throws around the PTSD diagnosis these days like it's nothing. Collin didn't get PTSD because his mother is an asshole. If you look at the other 7 kids, they don't appear to have PTSD. PTSD is a very serious thing caused by very serious trauma. I don't know what Collin's real diagnosis is, but I'm pretty sure it's not helped by his parents trashing each other in the media every chance they get. The fact that he was willing to lie to police and trash his father on Instagram means there is a serious issue. But I doubt it's true PTSD. 

For this past year though, Jon has been claiming there is nothing wrong with Collin. Now he says Collin acts out, has to be restrained, and runs away. Which is it?

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Would people still watch a Kate Plus 8 style show now? 

No. There is no interest. Kate wasn't fired from TLC because of Jon. Kate was fired because no one cares anymore. TLC would have put up with Jon's lawsuits if the show still had good ratings and people wanted to watch. Kate is dead in the water as a reality star. The kids aren't little and cute anymore. Even the Duggars are struggling as people lose interest in the whole large family angle. 

 

 

 

 

 

[chessiegal]

3 hours ago, Kellyee said:

Even the Duggars are struggling as people lose interest in the whole large family angle. 

 

I don't watch TLC, but do watch other Discovery channels. From promos I've seen, seems like they've got a whole new crop of big family shows, including one with a family with 9 or 11 kids, and mom announces she's pregnant with triplets.

Yeah, stick a fork in Kate, she's done.

[ouinason]

I don't remember Jon saying that there was nothing wrong with Colin, I remember him saying that there was no reason to lock him up.  Those are two different things.  Colin may have issues that are difficult, but do not rise to the level of institutionalization and isolation that Kate said they did.  I could absolutely be wrong about that.  Lots of teens have emotional outbursts, lie, run away, call CPS on their parents as a power play.  Others cover for their parents and downplay problems to authorities because they are afraid of the alternatives.  There is no way to know for sure what is going on with anyone's family, even if they are/were on TV and instagram their lives.  

[BarbieMermaidia]

The way these two love to smear each other, you'd think they were both running for public office lmao. We have Kate as the nominee for Giant Douche, who will say or do anything to cover her tracks, and Jon, reppin' Turd Sandwich, who's basically a dumbass. "I'm the lesser evil, it's my campaign promise!" 

But in all seriousness, I'm inclined to believe what Hannah says about the situation. I went to school with a handful of kids who would get defiant and fabricate bullying or abuse of some kind, and while I absolutely do not mean to sound like a denier in these instances, it's also not super unusual behavior for teenagers. Sometimes it was because they had been victimized, so drama was all they knew, or it was how they learned to get attention. Most outgrew that stuff once they became more independent.

My armchair psychologist read is that Collin's PTSD is actually cPTSD (complex PTSD) related to an accumulation of everyday events, and he also seems to have general anger management issues. He may have inherited his mother's abrasive personality, but that's not an area I have enough information to touch upon. Narcissistic tendencies can have a way of rubbing off, sometimes even when one has been the lowly scapegoat. It's what you know. And then that group home likely didn't offer a display of the greatest behaviors either. 

[JenMcSnark]

17 hours ago, Kellyee said:

I really hate how everyone throws around the PTSD diagnosis these days like it's nothing. Collin didn't get PTSD because his mother is an asshole. If you look at the other 7 kids, they don't appear to have PTSD. PTSD is a very serious thing caused by very serious trauma. I don't know what Collin's real diagnosis is, but I'm pretty sure it's not helped by his parents trashing each other in the media every chance they get. The fact that he was willing to lie to police and trash his father on Instagram means there is a serious issue. But I doubt it's true PTSD. 

For this past year though, Jon has been claiming there is nothing wrong with Collin. Now he says Collin acts out, has to be restrained, and runs away. Which is it?

No. There is no interest. Kate wasn't fired from TLC because of Jon. Kate was fired because no one cares anymore. TLC would have put up with Jon's lawsuits if the show still had good ratings and people wanted to watch. Kate is dead in the water as a reality star. The kids aren't little and cute anymore. Even the Duggars are struggling as people lose interest in the whole large family angle. 

 

None of us know what Collin's actual diagnosis is, but I can quite confidently tell you that it is very, VERY possible to get PTSD from having assholes for parents.  

[ouinason]

Or at least be jumpy as hell and have severe anxiety.

[Kellyee]

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The way these two love to smear each other, you'd think they were both running for public office lmao. We have Kate as the nominee for Giant Douche, who will say or do anything to cover her tracks, and Jon, reppin' Turd Sandwich, who's basically a dumbass. "I'm the lesser evil, it's my campaign promise!" 

Jon is still the dude who masturbated under a blanket on camera on Couples Therapy. Does that make him the Anthony Wiener?? LOL

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None of us know what Collin's actual diagnosis is, but I can quite confidently tell you that it is very, VERY possible to get PTSD from having assholes for parents.  

What I meant was that PTSD has become the new go-to diagnosis. On almost every reality show, someone is now claiming PTSD. We don't really know what Collin's problems are, and where they come from. 

 

 

 

 

 

[EVS]

Here’s the latest. I’m not sure what to think since it’s from the Daily Mail. 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8744785/Kate-Gosselin-accused-physically-emotionally-abusing-16-year-old-son-Collin.html

 

Edited September 23, 2020 by EVS

[Kellyee]

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Here’s the latest. I’m not sure what to think since it’s from the Daily Mail. 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8744785/Kate-Gosselin-accused-physically-emotionally-abusing-16-year-old-son-Collin.html

It could be true. Kate has shown herself to be a horrible parent, and I don't doubt that she can't handle a difficult child. Her inability to keep friends or maintain family relationships and her reactions to stress show she has some serious problems herself. She couldn't even handle it that time when one of her kids supposedly ate that slice of pizza that "belonged" to Kate's boyfriend/bodyguard Steve. 

It could also be untrue or exaggerated. Collin has shown what he's willing to do when he's upset or not getting his way. I don't doubt that he would lie about Kate to a therapist, since he was willing to call the police on Jon. Collin has some major issues. But I think she probably did treat differently than his siblings.

What I find most interesting is that Hannah was Kate's favorite during the years the show aired, and Hannah ran away. 

 

 

 

 

 

[JenMcSnark]

3 hours ago, Kellyee said:

It could be true. Kate has shown herself to be a horrible parent, and I don't doubt that she can't handle a difficult child. Her inability to keep friends or maintain family relationships and her reactions to stress show she has some serious problems herself. She couldn't even handle it that time when one of her kids supposedly ate that slice of pizza that "belonged" to Kate's boyfriend/bodyguard Steve. 

It could also be untrue or exaggerated. Collin has shown what he's willing to do when he's upset or not getting his way. I don't doubt that he would lie about Kate to a therapist, since he was willing to call the police on Jon. Collin has some major issues. But I think she probably did treat differently than his siblings.

What I find most interesting is that Hannah was Kate's favorite during the years the show aired, and Hannah ran away. 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree with all of this.  Unfortunately, Collin's word alone probably cannot be fully trusted, but I do personally believe just from the show that Kate treated Collin differently and was way harsher and uncaring with him than she was with the others.  She always clearly preferred Hannah and it's telling to me that Hannah left after she was able to develop into her own person.  

[CrazyInAlabama]

My understanding is that Kate sent Colin to that so-called therapeutic center, and Jon didn't even know where he was for a long time.    Colin may have issues, but I suspect I can guess where the origin of his problems started.   Being the family scapegoat can scar you for life.    I suspect that when Colin doesn't get his own way, he makes accusations, and gets physical.     Since Hannah said Colin was the aggressor, and Jon never hit Colin, I believe Jon's side this time.    

[VioletWitch]

Is it normal for a 12 year old to be institutionalized at an inpatient facility for 3 years? I imagine just that alone would bring trauma, especially if your mother allegedly only visited you twice. 

[Harmony233]

55 minutes ago, VioletWitch said:

Is it normal for a 12 year old to be institutionalized at an inpatient facility for 3 years? I imagine just that alone would bring trauma, especially if your mother allegedly only visited you twice. 

IA the place that he was at also has had horrible reviews from  I've read they talk about how abusive the staff is to the patients ect I think it would be unrealistic if the kid didn't have issues

[Kellyee]

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My understanding is that Kate sent Colin to that so-called therapeutic center, and Jon didn't even know where he was for a long time.  

I'm not sure how much I really buy that Jon had no way of finding out where Collin was. I don't recall Jon ever saying he went to court to try to find out. And Jon seems to have money coming from somewhere if all the vacations he flaunts on his Instagram are any indication. Kate's a bitch, but I've noticed that Jon likes to pay the abused victim card.

 

 

 

[Adiba]

On 9/24/2020 at 3:01 AM, VioletWitch said:

Is it normal for a 12 year old to be institutionalized at an inpatient facility for 3 years? I imagine just that alone would bring trauma, especially if your mother allegedly only visited you twice. 

No it is not normal. It is extremely difficult to institutionalize someone. My guess is that Kate could pay out of pocket for this place because insurance wouldn't cover this long of an impatient residential stay.

[VioletWitch]

59 minutes ago, Adiba said:

No it is not normal. It is extremely difficult to institutionalize someone. My guess is that Kate could pay out of pocket for this place because insurance wouldn't cover this long of an impatient residential stay.

Thanks! I was curious because I’ve heard how hard it is for people who need help to actually stay inpatient for as long as they need. The most I’ve heard of is like 3 months. But 3 years, for a child who as far as we know hasn’t committed a crime? That just sounds excessive. I can’t imagine how terrified he felt not knowing if there was an end in sight 

[Absolom]

What's worse is that it was completely punitive on Kate's part.  She knew Jon would take the child if he was too much for her to handle.  She was intent on punishing both of them.

[farmgal4]

3 hours ago, Absolom said:

What's worse is that it was completely punitive on Kate's part.  She knew Jon would take the child if he was too much for her to handle.  She was intent on punishing both of them.

Kate is one nasty piece of work.

[CrazyInAlabama]

On the subject of sending a minor away, yes it happens.    I've read about the gay conversion places, where children were forcefully sent away, and subjected to hideous abuses.    Children and teens have been hauled away with force and sent to wilderness boot camps in the U.S. and overseas.   The abuses at places like that a legendary, and there have been many deaths from this too.    These institutes, clinics, and boot camp places are prisons, and the prisoners have no rights.   

This is a true story of a girl who told her parents she was gay, then they signed their parental rights to a couple who physically and emotionally abused her for eight months, until she told a school classmate what was going on, and he helped her.  

https://people.com/human-interest/girl-15-held-against-her-will-endured-8-months-gay-conversion-therapy/

Edited September 27, 2020 by CrazyInAlabama

[EVS]

Wasn’t there supposedly a diary where Kate wrote about being physically abusive to Colin when he was very young?  Was it ever determined if the diary was real?

2 incidents I remember from the show where I thought Kate was unfair to Colin. They weren’t abusive, but the first seemed unnecessarily harsh and the second just made me feel badly for him. I’m sure there are other examples but these are the 2 that I remember:

First, when Colin was around 3 and got gum on his teddy bear and she yelled at him and threatened to throw the bear away and Maddie stepped in to defend him. I’m not describing it well, but I remember him being very distressed.

Second, it was Kate’s birthday and they were on some sort of trip. Kate gave each child money to buy her a small gift. Colin really liked a small figurine, I think of an animal, but it cost more than he had. He was so sweet that the shop owner gave it to him for a lower price. He was so proud to give it to Kate, but I remember she was very dismissive of the gift, even though she gushed over all the other kid’s presents. 

I also remember her treating Alexis worse than Leah and Hannah. I think things probably improved for Alexis when Hannah left, at least I hope Alexis stopped being the scapegoat when Hannah fell out of favor with Kate. 

It’s interesting to me that Colin and Alexis had behavioral problems at school when they were young. Did they develop problems because they were Kate’s scapegoats, or were they more difficult children which caused Kate to dislike them more than the others?

 

[Steff]

On 9/24/2020 at 7:26 AM, Kellyee said:

I'm not sure how much I really buy that Jon had no way of finding out where Collin was. I don't recall Jon ever saying he went to court to try to find out. And Jon seems to have money coming from somewhere if all the vacations he flaunts on his Instagram are any indication. Kate's a bitch, but I've noticed that Jon likes to pay the abused victim card.

 

 

 

Kate went on tv & gave an interview where she gloated & smirked about how she was the only one who knew where Collin was & she wasn't going to tell Jon.  It wasn't Jon playing the victim, it was Kate sitting in front of a camera being the villian down to her core.

[VioletWitch]

11 hours ago, EVS said:

Wasn’t there supposedly a diary where Kate wrote about being physically abusive to Colin when he was very young?  Was it ever determined if the diary was real?

2 incidents I remember from the show where I thought Kate was unfair to Colin. They weren’t abusive, but the first seemed unnecessarily harsh and the second just made me feel badly for him. I’m sure there are other examples but these are the 2 that I remember:

First, when Colin was around 3 and got gum on his teddy bear and she yelled at him and threatened to throw the bear away and Maddie stepped in to defend him. I’m not describing it well, but I remember him being very distressed.

Second, it was Kate’s birthday and they were on some sort of trip. Kate gave each child money to buy her a small gift. Colin really liked a small figurine, I think of an animal, but it cost more than he had. He was so sweet that the shop owner gave it to him for a lower price. He was so proud to give it to Kate, but I remember she was very dismissive of the gift, even though she gushed over all the other kid’s presents. 

I also remember her treating Alexis worse than Leah and Hannah. I think things probably improved for Alexis when Hannah left, at least I hope Alexis stopped being the scapegoat when Hannah fell out of favor with Kate. 

It’s interesting to me that Colin and Alexis had behavioral problems at school when they were young. Did they develop problems because they were Kate’s scapegoats, or were they more difficult children which caused Kate to dislike them more than the others?

 

I’d lean more towards difficult. I’m rewatching JK8 on YoutubeTV and Jon and Kate talk a lot about Alexis pirercing cries that make your ears ring. Alexis was sort of the wild child and not as princessy as the other girls. Jon and Kate also had her sleeping in the basement because she was known to wake up in the middle night and try to wake up her other siblings.  The only sibling Collin seems to get along with is Cara. 

On my rewatch, it’s sort of shocking how easy the twins meltdown and revert to toddler like behavior despite being elementary school aged. But I’m assuming it’s because it’s the only way they can ensure attention. Mady especially seemed to be struggling in a large family 

[Harmony233]

13 hours ago, EVS said:

Wasn’t there supposedly a diary where Kate wrote about being physically abusive to Colin when he was very young?  Was it ever determined if the diary was real?

2 incidents I remember from the show where I thought Kate was unfair to Colin. They weren’t abusive, but the first seemed unnecessarily harsh and the second just made me feel badly for him. I’m sure there are other examples but these are the 2 that I remember:

First, when Colin was around 3 and got gum on his teddy bear and she yelled at him and threatened to throw the bear away and Maddie stepped in to defend him. I’m not describing it well, but I remember him being very distressed.

Second, it was Kate’s birthday and they were on some sort of trip. Kate gave each child money to buy her a small gift. Colin really liked a small figurine, I think of an animal, but it cost more than he had. He was so sweet that the shop owner gave it to him for a lower price. He was so proud to give it to Kate, but I remember she was very dismissive of the gift, even though she gushed over all the other kid’s presents. 

I also remember her treating Alexis worse than Leah and Hannah. I think things probably improved for Alexis when Hannah left, at least I hope Alexis stopped being the scapegoat when Hannah fell out of favor with Kate. 

It’s interesting to me that Colin and Alexis had behavioral problems at school when they were young. Did they develop problems because they were Kate’s scapegoats, or were they more difficult children which caused Kate to dislike them more than the others?

 

Wasn't there an episode where Kate said something nice about all of her kids but couldn't think of anything nice to say about Collin 

[Kellyee]

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First, when Colin was around 3 and got gum on his teddy bear and she yelled at him and threatened to throw the bear away and Maddie stepped in to defend him. I’m not describing it well, but I remember him being very distressed.

It was Aunt Jodi who gave them the gum. I remember the sad look on Jodi's face as Kate went ape shit over bubble gum. That was the beginning of the end of Aunt Jodi and Uncle Kevin.

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Wasn't there an episode where Kate said something nice about all of her kids but couldn't think of anything nice to say about Collin 

It's not uncommon for an abusive parent to single out one child more than the others. But it's still not clear how Jon ended up losing custody and even visitation rights to all his kids when they were still small.

 

 

 

 

 

[VioletWitch]

If I remember correctly, Jon gave up legal custody (the rights to sign waivers, etc) of the kids so he didn’t have to pay child support. This worked out for Kate because she could get the kids to film again. Jon still had visitation and had the kids every other weekend. The twins stopped wanting to go over there, then Collin and Hannah, then the other 4 sextuplets. 

[babyhouseman]

18 hours ago, EVS said:

Wasn’t there supposedly a diary where Kate wrote about being physically abusive to Colin when he was very young?  Was it ever determined if the diary was real?

There was a book by Robert Hoffman called Kate Gosselin: How She Fooled the World. It's on Amazon.  I always assumed it was true because Kate could've sued and had the book removed if it wasn't . 

[pasdetrois]

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It's not uncommon for an abusive parent to single out one child more than the others.

Collin was Kate's abuse scapegoat. A very common scenario with abusive parents.

Kate is a true villain. When I first watched the original show, I was charmed by the children, but thought the parents were "off." Very soon there were confirmed reports about Kate's determination to birth a huge brood despite her ability to have more children the regular way (I don't recall the medical details). The local media reported that while the babies were infants Kate applied for public assistance and was confrontational when denied.

She began rejecting intimate family members right and left and controlling John's relationships as well. She was a taskmaster, not a mother. And spineless John did nothing to intervene; he has the emotional maturity of a middle school kid. He abandoned the children and pursued his entertainment "brand," which I heard him discuss in an interview.

They are loathsome people.

Edited September 28, 2020 by pasdetrois

[merylinkid]

18 hours ago, VioletWitch said:

If I remember correctly, Jon gave up legal custody (the rights to sign waivers, etc) of the kids so he didn’t have to pay child support. This worked out for Kate because she could get the kids to film again. Jon still had visitation and had the kids every other weekend. The twins stopped wanting to go over there, then Collin and Hannah, then the other 4 sextuplets. 

Who let them think they have the option of choosing not to go?   It was Kate's DUTY to make sure the kids had a relationship with their father and encourage contact.   It was not for her to say "oh you don't want to see your dad, no problem."   Also want to bet she said things like "sure you can go to your dad's, but you won't have your toys, and things there like you do here" or words to that effect.    I would bet my last dollar she very much made it clear she did not want the kids going over there.   Kids aren't stupid, they know who holds the power and what will happen if mama is not happy.

[VioletWitch]

5 hours ago, merylinkid said:

Who let them think they have the option of choosing not to go?   It was Kate's DUTY to make sure the kids had a relationship with their father and encourage contact.   It was not for her to say "oh you don't want to see your dad, no problem."   Also want to bet she said things like "sure you can go to your dad's, but you won't have your toys, and things there like you do here" or words to that effect.    I would bet my last dollar she very much made it clear she did not want the kids going over there.   Kids aren't stupid, they know who holds the power and what will happen if mama is not happy.

From my rewatches, there was a moment that stood out to me. Kate is doing a special one hour long sit down with TLC. She says the sextuplets refer to “New Daddy” (Jon after divorce)and “Old Daddy” (pre divorce) but that does not seem like something that would come out of the mouths of 5 year olds, especially the Gosselin kids who were a YOUNG 5

[Adiba]

On 9/26/2020 at 2:27 PM, VioletWitch said:

If I remember correctly, Jon gave up legal custody (the rights to sign waivers, etc) of the kids so he didn’t have to pay child support. This worked out for Kate because she could get the kids to film again. Jon still had visitation and had the kids every other weekend. The twins stopped wanting to go over there, then Collin and Hannah, then the other 4 sextuplets. 

I still don't know how this worked--not an attorney here--but I read that child support is something that the parent owes the child and the other parent cannot waive unless there is another parent to adopt (such as a step-parent).

[Kellyee]

Quote

I still don't know how this worked--not an attorney here--but I read that child support is something that the parent owes the child and the other parent cannot waive unless there is another parent to adopt (such as a step-parent).

Wasn't Jon unemployed for a really long time? I thought I remembered reading he was living in a log cabin with no electricity or something. 8 kids would mean a huge child support check. But when you decide to have twins and then sextuplets, that's your choice. And no one can convince me that their marriage was all that great before the sextuplets came along. Maybe he gave in so she wouldn't sue him for back child support??

 

 

 

 

[pasdetrois]

Absolutely. I'm convinced he exchanged his visiting rights for no child support. I think that's the way it was explained in the media.

[Steff]

Keep in mind that at the time of the divorce, his MONTHLY child support was rumored to be $22,000.  A MONTH.  There was no way for him to maintain & pay that without a tv job.  TLC made sure he was unable to work on tv.  His only option could have been to trade $22,000 A MONTH for visitation rights.  That or end up in jail.