S01.E08: The Question

[peeayebee]

1 hour ago, MrWhyt said:

it was the same room

No. I was talking about when Mansell crushed Skender's leg in his (Skender's) apt safe room.

[MrWhyt]

58 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

No. I was talking about when Mansell crushed Skender's leg in his (Skender's) apt safe room.

maybe we're talking past each other. I'm saying the safe room Skender brought them too and had his leg broken was the same room that Clement was locked in. My reading of your initial post leads me to think that you think they are two different rooms.

[peeayebee]

I do think they're two different rooms. Wasn't where Clement was locked in in an old warehouse? I may have to rewatch the ep in Skender's place.

ETA: My bad. I just rewatched the relevant scenes. I forgot Skender's panic room wasn't on the same floor as his furnished apartment. 

Edited August 31, 2023 by peeayebee

[paigow]

Raylan should go back to Detroit or Upstate NY... Canada is a shorter drive than Mexico for Boyd.

[tv-talk]

14 hours ago, Pike Ludwell said:

That's not the point. Raylan who knew him for years doubted he'd like being around a lot of Mexicans.

The point above was that he wouldnt go to Mexico because he's too racist to be there. I dont think that is how Boyd's character came off in the original series and certainly not just now where he is preaching to a wide variety of inmates. If he was so racist he'd have struck up with the prison white nationalists no? They could use a preacher too I'm sure.

[Pike Ludwell]

47 minutes ago, tv-talk said:

The point above was that he wouldnt go to Mexico because he's too racist to be there. I dont think that is how Boyd's character came off in the original series and certainly not just now where he is preaching to a wide variety of inmates. If he was so racist he'd have struck up with the prison white nationalists no? They could use a preacher too I'm sure.

I've addressed all these points. Guess we agree to disagree.

[Msample]

19 hours ago, Crashcourse said:

I don't remember him being on Justified.  I think the writers just wanted us to say "Oh, Luis Guzman!"

 

From an Elmore Leonard standpoint, Luis Guzman played one of the prisoners that escaped in OUT OF SIGHT. He is hilariously recaptured by Jennifer Lopez’s character. 

[aghst]

Given where he's from, he could be a racist but maybe never bothered to join some formal organization, though the tattoo may indicate some ideological commitment.

Sure the actor may have been squeamish about playing a card-carrying nazi.

Thing is, when Justified started airing, racism wasn't as out in the open as it is now.  Back then some politicians might just throw occasional dog whistles.  But it's become more overt since then, with racist speech and memes spreading like wildfire on social media.

 

[aghst]

22 hours ago, tv-talk said:

Oh Rachel is no doubt chief by now, if they go back. 

 

Was there any talk of more than this one season? I thought this was supposed to be a self-contained story and no one had plans of the show actually returning?

 

The Ringer Prestige Podcast recaps the finale and also has an interview with either a producer or the show runner.  He said there are no firm plans for another season, it's up to FX.

 

19 hours ago, Crashcourse said:

Exactly!  

I think even Timothy Oliphant knew this series wasn't nearly as good as OG Justified.  Hopefully, he comes back to a much better Justified series.  

I think/hope he realizes she's too stupid innocent to be a marshal.

TO apparently said that if they're going to bring in Groggins at the end, they better have nailed the previous 7-8 episodes.

But maybe if FX renews, he'd still do it.

They also mention that Tarantino and TO had discussed doing this series but for some reason, Tarantino didn't do it other than reviewing some of the early scripts.

 

19 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

 Maureen?  Well, I'm glad the guy she framed won't be going to jail but I wasn't invested enough in her to care.  

 

17 hours ago, Raja said:

I think that is a casualty of taking the story away from a co-worker Detective Cruz and transferring it to Deputy Givens up from Miami

Prestige TV podcasts pointed out that the original Justified seasons were 13 episodes, not 8.  So they had more opportunities to expand development of some of the secondary characters.

[Mrs. Stanwyck]

Quote

And Carolyn- sheesh how low would she go? Are we supposed to like her? I dont really know what to make of her.

I sort of get where Carolyn was coming from.  She tried to let the law do its thing.  She turned over the Judge's book to use to tie Mansell to his murder and that didn't work because he was tipped off.  Then, he shot and killed Sweetie and she turned the gun over so the law could tie him to his crimes and again, a dirty cop let him get away.  Then, he came to threaten her and apparently the law couldn't do anything to stop him.  I get why the Albanians became an option she would consider.  

I also assume that although Mansell wasn't reaching for his gun when Raylan shot him, I'm pretty sure he still had the gun he used to shoot all the Albanians.  Raylan may have sped up the process but the stand off between those two wouldn't have ended any other way.  Raylan would have insisted on arresting him and Mansell wasn't going to let that happen. 

I think Sandy got on the plane and left town after she arranged the meet up with Mansell although considering Mansell and all of the Albanians are dead, there really isn't any reason she had to leave.

It was nice to see all of the Justified characters at the end.  If they do another season, I'll certainly watch but it wouldn't surprise me if they left it like this.  If they do another season, Raylan will eventually put Boyd back in prison and I think most people are happier knowing that Boyd is out.  I do hope he notifies Ava but at least Boyd thinks she's dead so he won't spend time looking for her.

[paigow]

5 hours ago, Mrs. Stanwyck said:

I think Sandy got on the plane and left town after she arranged the meet up with Mansell although considering Mansell and all of the Albanians are dead, there really isn't any reason she had to leave.

Sandy had to leave because Raylan would have to arrest her if she stayed. She committed various felonies [dumping stolen art, accessory etc...] in Detroit.

[roughing it]

And Sandy didn't know that Mansell ("Tighty-Whitey", my name for him) or the Albanians were dead.  She had to disappear.

[mythoughtis]

On 8/29/2023 at 10:01 PM, luna1122again said:

Omg omg omg

Okay, now I want another season 

In Harlan Kentucky with Boyd on the run.     Without Willa. He can be on a temporary reinstatement just to get Boyd 

Edited September 1, 2023 by mythoughtis

[Macbeth1966]

On 8/30/2023 at 12:21 PM, tennisgurl said:

Just when I think I'm out, they pull me back in. Oh Boyd, that silver tongued devil has still got it, I admit that I squeed quite a bit when we saw "Kentucky" show up on my screen. If this is our last time with Boyd its certainly one hell of a goodbye, and if its a teaser for another season, I guess I'm in damn it. Plus, Luis Guzman cameo!

The ending of the season itself was fine, it went about the way I expected, including everyone being so damn dark I spent half the time begging someone to turn on even a tiny light on their phone. After so much promise in the first few episodes this show turned out to be a real disappointment. Not garbage or anything, but very bland and forgettable, very much feeling like a totally different story that had Raylan thrown in at the last minute so they could stick Justified on the title. The ending just made me sad imagining the show we could have gotten, an actual continuation of the story. 

I'm really glad that we got to see Winonna one more time, its really too bad that it never worked out between them, they always had great chemistry. Between seeing her and then Boyd, its like the show decided to be Justified for a minute or two just in time for the ending. 

I agree completely.  I don't think I was ever more tired of a criminal "mastermind" than I was of Mansell.  I was really over it at the end of episode 6 when they still couldn't arrest him.  

I was very interested when the possibility of a shootout might happen between Raylan and Mr. Frosted Tips in episode 7 but of course Toma had to interfere.

And what sort of Mafia are the Albanians.  You have somebody shooting people in a hospital/rest home and nobody thinks to go for a gun until Frosted Tips is in the doorway??  Amateurs. 

I was so happy to see Winona.  That was a very nice surprise.

But honestly - Seeing the OG himself, Boyd Crowder, was truly heaven sent.  I was like now this is Justified.  And then of course the season ends.

Edited September 1, 2023 by Macbeth1966

[tv-talk]

9 hours ago, Macbeth1966 said:

I don't think I was ever more tired of a criminal "mastermind" than I was of Mansell. 

He was less a mastermind than Dewey Crowe, in all seriousness. Mansell didnt even have any sort of real plan other than walk around with that stupid book trying to extort people. I think they really did fans a disservice by shoehorning Raylan into a different Elmore Leonard story, should have just written a Harlan characters based series starting with Boyd's escape, had it take place in Mexico, Texas, Florida, then back to Kentucky for the wrap.

[Macbeth1966]

36 minutes ago, tv-talk said:

He was less a mastermind than Dewey Crowe, in all seriousness. Mansell didnt even have any sort of real plan other than walk around with that stupid book trying to extort people. I think they really did fans a disservice by shoehorning Raylan into a different Elmore Leonard story, should have just written a Harlan characters based series starting with Boyd's escape, had it take place in Mexico, Texas, Florida, then back to Kentucky for the wrap.

I love Dewey Crowe.  Dewey had a dream with the settlement money he got from Raylan being Raylan.  He bought a brothel.  Got a large inflated swimming pool so he could frolic with the  prostitutes.

Then Raylan had to end Dewey's dream by shooting the inflatable pool.  

They had some great villains on that show.  Wyn Duffy.  Mags Bennett and her "tads."  Raylan's own father Arlo.

But the most important is Boyd.  Once he showed up at the end - it basically negated the relaunch.  5 minutes with Boyd was much more interesting that the million minutes we spent with Mansell. 

This is what the story should have been about.

[paigow]

Raylan: Stop talking in the third person

Dewey: Who?? 

[Mrs. Stanwyck]

Speaking of quotes, I did enjoy the one in this last episode where in response to Raylan getting up to get save Mansell from the Albanians, Carolyn said "Goddamn it Raylan" and he replied, "Yeah, I get that a lot."

Edited September 5, 2023 by Mrs. Stanwyck
Edit typos

[Blakeston]

When Raylan told Boyd that he wouldn't like Mexico because there's a lot of Mexicans there, I took that as Raylan needling Boyd about his past willingness to join up with white supremacists - not Raylan seriously accusing Boyd of hating Mexicans.

[Anela]

Boyd is so full of shit. 😂 I was spoiled on him being in the finale, because I follow Walton goggins on instagram, but I really do have to re-watch the original series now.  

I guess this was a setup for another season.  

Edited September 4, 2023 by Anela

[seacliffsal]

1 hour ago, Anela said:

Boyd is so full of shit. 😂 I was spoiled on him being in the finale, because I follow Walton goggins on instagram, but I really do have to re-watch the original series now.  

I guess this was a setup for another season.  

I really hope it was a setup for another season, otherwise I have no idea why I watched this whole season as it was just so...nothing...

[paigow]

1 hour ago, seacliffsal said:

otherwise I have no idea why I watched this whole season...

Blacklist: City Primeval

[primadonna]

I was DONE within series.  I was tired of the poor lighting ( I know it was to convey mood, but jeez), the affair with Carolyn, and the inability to get excited about this plot line. The phone rang about 15 minutes before the end and I intended to just delete the sappy ending left on the recorder, and never watch any more seasons. But just before I deleted, I decided to watch the rest.  I could not believe those last 10 minutes  I almost made watching 8 episodes in the dark worth it, but not quite.  

[SeanBug]

On 8/29/2023 at 11:01 PM, luna1122again said:

Omg omg omg

Okay, now I want another season 

Me too. I was kinda iffy on this in the first couple episodes, but then it got back to the way Leonard tells a story, all the various characters that turn up, and then you don't see them again, until the next book.  I am kinda surprised Clement got the drop on the Albanians. 

I like how they brought Raymond Cruz in and had the actor who played him from Out of Sight, and the actor who played the guard transporting Boyd was in Out of Sight as well. Those were fun cameos. 

I don't think Raylan retired for Willa, I think he was just tired of going up against corruption and having to do what he did to Mansell instead of putting him away for what, 10 plus murders? 

So Raylan's going to Mexico to track down Boyd, and get involved with some cartel stuff. 

 

11 hours ago, primadonna said:

I was DONE within series.  I was tired of the poor lighting ( I know it was to convey mood, but jeez), the affair with Carolyn, and the inability to get excited about this plot line. The phone rang about 15 minutes before the end and I intended to just delete the sappy ending left on the recorder, and never watch any more seasons. But just before I deleted, I decided to watch the rest.  I could not believe those last 10 minutes  I almost made watching 8 episodes in the dark worth it, but not quite.  

So many tv shows are shot like that, it's so dark I have to turn off the light by the sofa so it doesn't reflect on the tv. Jack Ryan was like that, I quit watching the 3rd season because I could never tell what the fuck was going on. 

I didn't care for the affair with Carolyn either.  What happened to Sandy? Did she get out of town?  The whole thing about the detective being dirty and framing the homeless guy for the judge murder was dumb.  We never got a whiff of anything from her, and that seemed like an after thought. The writing on this was not up to par with the original series. But it got good at the end. 

[7-Zark-7]

On 8/30/2023 at 11:27 AM, MrWhyt said:

 

On 8/30/2023 at 4:51 AM, chediavolo said:

Every time they showed Raylan and Caroline it boggled my mind. There is no way he would be attracted to her physically

why? she's good looking lady.

I have to admit, I thought Carolyn was a bit average looking for Raylan. Considering Natalie Zea and Joelle Carter were cast as previous love interests, I would have thought an actress like Taraji P. Henson, Aisha Tyler or Regina Hall would have made more sense.

__________________________

I'm fine with it ending like this, but there is no point in bringing Boyd up again if they're not sending Raylan after him.

[Crashcourse]

It's too bad Karen Pittman (who played Willa Hayes in Season 3 of Yellowstone) is on another show, because I think she would have been perfect as Carolyn.  

[SeanBug]

I had the same feeling regarding Carolyn and Raylan hooking up. 

The actress reminded me a little of Viola Davis. She was good in the role, but she is not Raylan's type at all.  They didn't really have any chemistry. The only thing going on was her giving him a hard time at the trial, which ended with Mansell going free, right?  (Did that happen, or am I misremembering)

And then Raylan being protective of her when he thought the Albanians were coming after her. 

I do not remember Olyphant being sooo thin.  He's tall and well built but he looks downright skinny.  The last thing I saw him in was The Grinder, where he took his shirt off a lot, and it was HOT AF. 

TImothy Olyphant is Rake Grinder

Edited September 7, 2023 by SeanBug

[Crashcourse]

He does look a lot thinner on this show, compared to looking hot AF on The Grinder.

[SeanBug]

10 minutes ago, Crashcourse said:

He does look a lot thinner on this show, compared to looking hot AF on The Grinder.

I do like how he is cool with making fun of himself, or doing comedy that is based on his looks, like when he played Danny on The Office for a couple episodes. 

He had a great line on The Grinder about hot male actors always being forced to take their shirt off, when the story line doesn't really call for it. 

"It's okay....if it's Justified". 

[yarddog2k]

I just finished watching episode 8. Winona is in the episode for all of 15 seconds and still manages to be a snarky B.

[DanaMB]

I liked seeing Winona again. The kid can go away forever. 
 

I literally clapped when Kentucky appeared on my screen. Lol

[cleo]

I'm pretty sure that happened within the last couple years- a female guard helped an inmate/her boyfriend escape from jail. I remember reading about it.

The last 10 mins with Boyd was better than the entire series.

Leaving Mansell alive in the man cave was so stupid and just unrealistic. I thought they were going to crush his head with the door. That I would've believed.

Also, there was NO reason to take Raylon. Just dumb, lazy writing. 

[Hava]

On 8/30/2023 at 4:51 AM, chediavolo said:

There is no way he would be attracted to her physically

And why is that? 

On 9/7/2023 at 3:45 PM, SeanBug said:

not Raylan's type at all

Raylan is a fictional character. His type is basically whoever the writers decide is his type. Raylan never came out and said that he is only attracted to a certain type of woman. Even if you were to say that he only hooked up with skinny, white, blondes during Justified, you still don't know his history of the types of women he hooked up with previously. Also, people change--there are 10 years between the end of Justified and this. 

Sorry, I just think the fixation that some viewers have on Raylan's type and how Carolyn doesn't fit it is beyond weird and questionable.

Edited February 7 by Hava

[SeanBug]

12 hours ago, Hava said:

And why is that? 

Raylan is a fictional character. His type is basically whoever the writers decide is his type. Raylan never came out and said that he is only attracted to a certain type of woman. Even if you were to say that he only hooked up with skinny, white, blondes during Justified, you still don't know his history of the types of women he hooked up with previously. Also, people change--there are 10 years between the end of Justified and this. 

Sorry, I just think the fixation that some viewers have on Raylan's type and how Carolyn doesn't fit it is beyond weird and questionable.

I didn't think it had anything to do with her looks, or being blonde white and skinny. Types can also be personality. 

And I think we're all entitled to our opinions, based on the character and the show we watched.  

[Raja]

11 minutes ago, SeanBug said:

I didn't think it had anything to do with her looks, or being blonde white and skinny. Types can also be personality. 

And I think we're all entitled to our opinions, based on the character and the show we watched.  

The problem being this is just a small corner of the internet and we bring in influences from the outside world. And Aunjanue Ellis-Taylor being no longer the Sista Girl of 20 years ago, both in her lawyer's clothes and out of them was a widely propagated snark