S03.E02: The Beat Goes On

[jenrising]

Quote

Mable, Oliver & Charles attend Ben's lavish memorial full of fans and those with more dubious motives. As the actor's sudden death is mourned, Oliver works to revive his shaky Broadway show.

Available August 8

[AnimeMania]

Mabel was a little distracting in the first episode, her face seemed puffy, she wasn't wearing enough makeup, and one of her eyes seemed to be looking in the wrong direction. She was looking much better by episode two.

[shapeshifter]

5 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

Mabel was a little distracting in the first episode, her face seemed puffy

Not just seemed. I couldn't stop worrying about her kidney transplant.🤕

Meryl Streep and Paul Rudd had much bigger parts than I expected.🤩 😍

If the killer is going to be Meryl's Lorretta — who is the new flame for one of the "olds" — wouldn't that be a bit too much like Season 1? Maybe that's the point, and we will get some twisty twisteroo at the 11th 10th hour.

I'm glad Mabel already had a TV history with Paul Rudd's Ben; that makes for a much more interesting role than just him narrating. 
I also appreciate Mabel hanging a lantern on Ben being like a Tim Kono 2.0 in her mind.

 

Coincidentally, I had my first bad heartburn in years right before Oliver had his heart attack.🥺

Edited August 8, 2023 by shapeshifter

[thuganomics85]

Paul Rudd and the show were definitely having fun with all of the callbacks to Ben's past work like "CoBro" and "Girl Cop."  Amusing, but I do like how Girl Cop was apparently a big part of Mabel's life and that's why she is invested (crushing maybe?) on Ben despite his clearly odious behavior elsewhere.  Also curious if that scene with her talking with him "Tim Kono" style is a way to keep Rudd around besides just flashbacks.

It also looks like he and Charles have history since Charles apparently had him fired from his first job (at eight years old!) when was suppose to play some kind of wiz kid on Brazzos.  I wonder if we will delve into that more: Charles seem to sincerely not remember that, so I wonder if there was more to it.  Also, during last season's finale, it really came off like Charles was more upset with Ben than the reversal by then, so I imagine Ben does something unforgivable beyond just being a pain in Charles' ass.

Frankly, it's probably a little surprising that it has taken this long for Oliver to have his first heart attack.  Dude is constantly wired and lives, sleeps, and eats stress every hour of the day.  You just know he won't back off either.  Hope he doesn't go too overboard with hit.

Looks like the suspect pool has been narrowed down to whoever was given a handkerchief by Ben as a gift for opening day.  I know they said it was given to the crew and cast, but I wonder if others received them, which would still allow for the likes of his brother or the documentary guy to be in the game still.  

The podcast is back on the menu, folks!  Even though for once it looks like Oliver might be the more reluctant member.

[shapeshifter]

Thanks, @thuganomics85, for the great episode analyses here👆 and on the 3.1 episode thread.

 

2 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Looks like the suspect pool has been narrowed down to whoever was given a handkerchief by Ben as a gift for opening day.  I know they said it was given to the crew and cast, but I wonder if others received them, which would still allow for the likes of his brother or the documentary guy to be in the game still.  

Also:

• the killer may have taken the handkerchief from someone,
  including Ben,
• or the killer just found the handkerchief laying around?
• or the handkerchief was dropped…
  • by a witness who is reluctant to come forward?
  • and/or the handkerchief was dropped at the scene before Ben’s fall,
    • by someone who may or may not realize they dropped it, 
    • and which might cause either the intrepid podcasters or the police (or both) to suspect someone of pushing Ben down the elevator shaft who’s only guilty of dropping a handkerchief. 
• Does there have to be a killer?
  • Ben could have been assaulting someone who pushed him away,
  • or Ben could have just lost his footing?
    • have they done an autopsy yet, to see if Ben was taking drugs or medicine that could have caused him to stumble down an elevator shaft?

[cardigirl]

Well, I very much enjoyed the first two episodes, and appreciate that they are doing more background on the characters this season. 

I was very worried for Oliver when he was having his heart attack. Glad it wasn't a BIG one. 

Loved the A Chorus Line-like dream of Oliver's with Charles, Mabel, and Will, and thought it was performed brilliantly. 

I love when they reveal depth to the characters, even the baddies. So Ben had anxieties and carried a chip on his shoulder because of an early encounter with Charles?  Interesting. 

The only thing I didn't care for was the filming seemed sped up or something. Or the lighting was off, or they are using a single camera rather than three or four. Just felt a bit off to me. I'll rewatch before next week, and maybe I won't notice anything. 

 

Glad this show is back! 

 

[paigow]

Nathan Lane is trying to kill Oliver with dips...

[Sailorgirl26]

10 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

Mabel was a little distracting in the first episode, her face seemed puffy, she wasn't wearing enough makeup, and one of her eyes seemed to be looking in the wrong direction. She was looking much better by episode two.

The puffiness is from being on high prednisone dosage  -- my cousin had lupus and when it was at its worst she was on very high levels. It does go away pretty quickly when you start scaling the dosages back down. 

Lupus is horrible and if Selena was acting during a flare up, that's beyond impressive. 

[paigow]

Left field suspect is Will. He likely noticed that Oliver was under fatal stress levels. Ben being alive would relaunch Death Rattle so Will killed Ben to save Oliver. Unfortunately, the Fosse vision derailed that plan...

[shapeshifter]

31 minutes ago, paigow said:

Left field suspect is Will. He likely noticed that Oliver was under fatal stress levels. Ben being alive would relaunch Death Rattle so Will killed Ben to save Oliver. Unfortunately, the Fosse vision derailed that plan...

Very left field suspect! 
But Will hasn't had a huge role, so, maybe.

[cardigirl]

57 minutes ago, paigow said:

Left field suspect is Will. He likely noticed that Oliver was under fatal stress levels. Ben being alive would relaunch Death Rattle so Will killed Ben to save Oliver. Unfortunately, the Fosse vision derailed that plan...

I suspected Will in season 1, but not at all in season 2.  So, maybe ...

[SoMuchTV]

3 hours ago, paigow said:

Nathan Lane is trying to kill Oliver with dips...

Yeah, that was a very specific thing for the doctor to tell him to avoid!

[tennisgurl]

Its kind of amazing that its taken Oliver this long to have a heart attack, he's so high strung and all over the place, but there have been quite a few shocks lately. Luckily it was just a small one, but it still makes me worried. Loved his Chorus Line meets All that Jazz dream sequence, imaginary Mabel was just so put out at having to be there. 

We are really digging more into the characters backstories already this season, which is a lot of fun. Mabel being so obsessed with Ben because his show helped her through a rough time makes a lot of sense, and that's why she's seeing him like she used to see Tim even if she didn't have that history with him.

Ben might not have been the nicest person, but I do feel bad for him after hearing how harsh Charles was with him and how insecure he was. Like with Tim and Bunny, they might not have been the most likable people but they had their reasons for being who they were and were actually a lot more likable than they seemed to be, it will be interesting seeing more of him in the flashbacks. We know that, while Charles is a good person, he can be rather insensitive without realizing it, so I can see a younger Charles having a child actor kicked off the show and not thinking about it again. 

Paul Rudd must be having a lot of fun with all of the Brobra jokes. 

[ofmd]

Glad to have the show back. With the exception of Loretta, I hope they'll concentrate on our quirky Aconia dwellants and less on new theater crew characters, so I'm happy to have the real murder be an in-house job, so to speak. There can never be too much Una!

Dimas doesn't seem to be in this season, is he?I

I hope they're not killing off Oliver this season.

ETA: Coming to think of it, Charles' LI was the murderer of s1,  Mabel's s2 LI wasn't but was a horrible person who betrayed her (not to mention badly acted and written, but I digress) - I hope it isn't Oliver's turn to get his heart broken this season. Both metaphorically and literally.

Edited August 8, 2023 by ofmd

[MerBearStare]

I liked that this episode added more depth to Paul Rudd's character rather than just having him be an asshole. In addition to finding out that Charles was a dick to him when he was just 8-years-old, we also found out that he was supporting his family at that time. It's not the brother's fault that Ben was the breadwinner, but I could see how resentment combined with arrested development (which all famous people supposedly have, but I don't know any famous people myself, so can't confirm) would lead him to treating his brother poorly. One thing I think this show excels at is making all the characters human rather than one-dimensional heroes or villains.

Edited August 8, 2023 by MerBearStare

[peeayebee]

Loved Ben's gift note to Charles: 

Quote

Happy Opening Night!
Fuck You, Ben

 

It was interesting hearing that Charles was a jerk to Ben way back, and also Ben's explanation for why he feels necessary to behave like an asshole whenever he enters a room. I certainly noticed that he seemed nice and normal when he was rehearsing in his dressing room with Oliver.

Death Rattle as a musical. I hope we get to see that.

[paigow]

Will Sting be the new leading man?

[TheOtherOne]

3 hours ago, ofmd said:

Dimas doesn't seem to be in this season, is he?I

 

No. Nathan Lane had scheduling conflicts.

https://tvline.com/casting-news/only-murders-in-the-building-nathan-lane-leaving-teddy-dimas-season-3-cast-1235012509/

 

[Snazzy Daisy]

Quote

"You're the glue. You're the Mabel in the Charles-Oliver sandwich. Without you, we're just two pieces of stale white bread."

True that!

The essence of this show is the trio working together - investigating, exploring, theorizing, disagreeing, bantering etc. Please don't take these away from us. Mabel already feels left out with the gentlemen focusing on the play and their (potential) love interests. Also, Mabel will be leaving Arconia in 4 weeks. More time apart, ugh!

Love this cheeky bit, wish it's longer...

[paigow]

12 minutes ago, TheOtherOne said:

No. Nathan Lane had scheduling conflicts.

He could leave antagonistic voice mails.... Oliver does not have to die this season

[shapeshifter]

Watching during the strike:
This season seems like the best so far.
It's an excellent example of what real writers can do.
And the extras add a lot too. 
If they'd used an AI singer for the scene that inspired young Loretta in 1962, it just wouldn't have been, you know, inspiring. 
I wondered if Mabel noticing that the photos of Ben and Gregg were PhotoShopped was an oblique reference to AI?

 

Solving the case:
When Ben came back from being dead the first time, he said the doctors thought it was something he ate. 
The bit of cookie? Perhaps not enough to kill him with immediate medical attention? Maybe a known allergy? 
Do we know who provided the cookies? 

Of course, the person who may have tried to kill him the first time may not be the person who killed him the second time. 

Maybe Ben went back to the cookies and binge-ate them all? 

What was the time frame between Ben's two deaths? 

Ben was consistently dismissive of Cliff. History?

Edited August 8, 2023 by shapeshifter

[sjankis630]

2 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I wondered if Mabel noticing that the photos of Ben and Gregg were PhotoShopped was an oblique reference to AI?

That is an interesting point. It could be. And of course the terrible quality of the "photoshopping" could be an additional dig against AI.

Edited August 9, 2023 by sjankis630

[secnarf]

Re: the photoshopping - I thought that was meant to show that the crazy not-security guard guy did it himself, and it had to be obvious enough for Mabel to notice. I don't think they were going for anything meta, there.

There is no way, absolutely no way, that Ben was technically dead for a full hour and bounced back like nothing happened. They weren't even doing CPR on him - he had been "pronounced" at the scene. That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard, and we better find out that he - and those within his circle - conspired to fake his death on stage for the sake of the documentary. I have seen people brought back after prolonged asystole - even with constant CPR, your brain is not going to be the same. You are not leaving the hospital hours later, and you are not functioning the way you were before the event.

These two episodes didn't really grab me the way the initial episodes of seasons 1 and 2 did, and I think that was part of the reason why - I could not suspend disbelief about Ben being brought back to life, although I am choosing to believe that he wasn't dead in the first place. I think there also was just so much going on, with so many new characters to suspect, and so many flashbacks that I had a hard time getting invested in the present.

[shapeshifter]

7 hours ago, secnarf said:

Re: the photoshopping - I thought that was meant to show that the crazy not-security guard guy did it himself, and it had to be obvious enough for Mabel to notice. I don't think they were going for anything meta, there.

Yeah. It almost certainly was just a coincidence that I wanted to be on purpose. 

 

7 hours ago, secnarf said:

There is no way, absolutely no way, that Ben was technically dead for a full hour and bounced back like nothing happened. They weren't even doing CPR on him - he had been "pronounced" at the scene. That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard, and we better find out that he - and those within his circle - conspired to fake his death on stage for the sake of the documentary. I have seen people brought back after prolonged asystole - even with constant CPR, your brain is not going to be the same. You are not leaving the hospital hours later, and you are not functioning the way you were before the event.

These two episodes didn't really grab me the way the initial episodes of seasons 1 and 2 did, and I think that was part of the reason why - I could not suspend disbelief about Ben being brought back to life, although I am choosing to believe that he wasn't dead in the first place. I think there also was just so much going on, with so many new characters to suspect, and so many flashbacks that I had a hard time getting invested in the present.

I noticed that it was one of Ben's people who was trailing after the stretcher loudly bemoaning that his death had been "pronounced" in a kind of fake, sad, overly dramatic way. But there were enough drama queens to go around, so...?
But an even bigger clue was that if he was dead at that point, there would have been a sheet covering his face, right? 

So if there was something in the cookies, are we pretty sure Ben was in on it? 

And perhaps the claim that he'd been dead for an hour was just to cover up something else? 
It was a *very* WTF claim, but then, wasn't Ben known for outlandish statements?

 

Edited August 9, 2023 by shapeshifter

[secnarf]

Also - someone traumatized over being fired after their first table read (Ben) tries to get somebody else fired after their first table read (Meryl Streep’s character)?

I’m not sure I trust anything that comes out of Ben’s mouth. 

[Snazzy Daisy]

Easter egg #1 - blue flames.

 

Easter egg #2 - action figure of Ben Glenroy: Bat Mitzvah DJ

 

Edited August 9, 2023 by Snazzy Daisy

[phalange]

So now they need to investigate the cast and crew of the play to see who still has their scarf from Ben.

If Ben was telling the truth about Charles getting him fired from Brazzos as a kid, he sure didn't learn any lesson from it since he immediately tried to get Loretta fired.

Oliver needs to take it easy, so of course he's doing the exact opposite and jumping back into another Broadway production and solving a murder, though he doesn't seem as thrilled about the podcast this time.

[peeayebee]

9 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

It was a *very* WTF claim, but then, wasn't Ben known for outlandish statements?

If nothing else comes up to explain the absurdity of Ben being "dead" for an hour, that's fine by me because, as you said, Ben tended to say things to impress others, brag, and so on. 

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, peeayebee said:

If nothing else comes up to explain the absurdity of Ben being "dead" for an hour, that's fine by me because, as you said, Ben tended to say things to impress others, brag, and so on. 

Right.
But if Mabel or one of the Scoobies recalls Ben's "dead for an hour" claim, the impossibility of it could cause them to want to track down what was really happening during that "hour."

Or Ben's "dead for an hour" might be quoted by one Scooby to another to illustrate that nothing Ben ever said should be taken at face value, perhaps including his story that Charles got him fired.

Edited August 9, 2023 by shapeshifter

[HelloooKitty]

So it’s early and I’ll probably change my mind a million times but here is my initial theory:

the producers (1 or both) did it
for “The Producers” type reasons. 

They thought a big name Star making his debut would bring in big money. But he was bad. So bad. Bad enough to not sell out but not so bad as to completely tank the show. People would still come to see him, fans anyway, but all the “true” theater people will skip it. 
so they needed to end the show in order to recoup their money. 
 

maybe the first “death” was a publicity stunt? But I think they realized either 1)  (if it was the producers idea) it wasn’t going to work or

B) (if it was Ben’s idea) Ben had jeopardized everything out of selfishness  and they were fed up

 

either way it led to the second REAL death

Edited August 9, 2023 by HelloooKitty

[Ilovepie]

On 8/8/2023 at 7:59 AM, paigow said:

Nathan Lane is trying to kill Oliver with dips...

But where is the Gut Milk??????

[Zanzibar]

19 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Solving the case:
When Ben came back from being dead the first time, he said the doctors thought it was something he ate. 
The bit of cookie? Perhaps not enough to kill him with immediate medical attention? Maybe a known allergy? 
Do we know who provided the cookies? 

Of course, the person who may have tried to kill him the first time may not be the person who killed him the second time. 

Maybe Ben went back to the cookies and binge-ate them all?

I thought the only time they actually showed cookies, and we saw Ben take a bite, was the table read scene, which was months prior to his collapse on stage.  And in that scene, when it was asked where the cookies were from, it was Howard who answered. Of course I may have missed seeing cookies another time, but that is the only time I remember seeing cookies.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, HelloooKitty said:

So it’s early and I’ll probably change my mind a million times but here is my initial theory:

the producers (1 or both) did it
for “The Producers” type reasons. 

They thought a big name Star making his debut would bring in big money. But he was bad. So bad. Bad enough to not sell out but not so bad as to completely tank the show. People would still come to see him, fans anyway, but all the “true” theater people will skip it. 
so they needed to end the show in order to recoup their money. 
 

maybe the first “death” was a publicity stunt? But I think they realized either 1)  (if it was the producers idea) it wasn’t going to work or

B) (if it was Ben’s idea) Ben had jeopardized everything out of selfishness  and they were fed up

 

either way it led to the second REAL death

This all makes enough sense to me, but a variation might be the second murder was done by someone else to take advantage of the first, fake murder, and frame the original perps.

 

 

 

[peeayebee]

1 hour ago, Zanzibar said:

I thought the only time they actually showed cookies, and we saw Ben take a bite, was the table read scene, which was months prior to his collapse on stage.  And in that scene, when it was asked where the cookies were from, it was Howard who answered. Of course I may have missed seeing cookies another time, but that is the only time I remember seeing cookies.

Wasn't the thing that Ben had such a weakness for cookies that he couldn't stop eating them? So I assume he continued to eat them in the months before his first "death." 

[Zanzibar]

10 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

Wasn't the thing that Ben had such a weakness for cookies that he couldn't stop eating them? So I assume he continued to eat them in the months before his first "death." 

Of course he could have eaten cookies at any time.  But the only time we SAW cookies (and that is what I believe Shapeshifter is referring to in the comments I quoted, such as " Maybe Ben went back to the cookies and binge-ate them all? ") was at the table read.  My post was in response to that, because the only time we actually saw him with cookies was at the table read, which was months before he "died" onstage.

Long story short, cookies probably are going to be an issue at some point, since they emphasized how he is about cookies, but I don't recall seeing any cookies around or hearing them mentioned (yet, anyway) on the day he "died" onstage. Only at the table read months earlier.

[Captain Stable]

16 hours ago, Snazzy Daisy said:

Easter egg #2 - action figure of Ben Glenroy: Bat Mitzvah DJ

 

Easter Egg #3 - "Papa Ant" (seen in the screenshot), clearly a reference to Ant Man!

[retired watcher]

On 8/8/2023 at 1:30 AM, AnimeMania said:

Mabel was a little distracting in the first episode, her face seemed puffy, she wasn't wearing enough makeup, and one of her eyes seemed to be looking in the wrong direction. She was looking much better by episode two.

Selena was having medical problems. There was much made about her weight gain in the gossip rags and she talked about it being health related.

[peeayebee]

4 hours ago, Zanzibar said:

Of course he could have eaten cookies at any time.  But the only time we SAW cookies (and that is what I believe Shapeshifter is referring to in the comments I quoted, such as " Maybe Ben went back to the cookies and binge-ate them all? ") was at the table read.  My post was in response to that, because the only time we actually saw him with cookies was at the table read, which was months before he "died" onstage.

Long story short, cookies probably are going to be an issue at some point, since they emphasized how he is about cookies, but I don't recall seeing any cookies around or hearing them mentioned (yet, anyway) on the day he "died" onstage. Only at the table read months earlier.

Yes, that's all we've been shown so far. But we always get flashbacks, so I'm guessing in a future ep we'll see him chowing down on cookies.

[Haleth]

On 8/8/2023 at 9:42 PM, secnarf said:

There is no way, absolutely no way, that Ben was technically dead for a full hour and bounced back like nothing happened. They weren't even doing CPR on him - he had been "pronounced" at the scene. That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard, and we better find out that he - and those within his circle - conspired to fake his death on stage for the sake of the documentary. I have seen people brought back after prolonged asystole - even with constant CPR, your brain is not going to be the same. You are not leaving the hospital hours later, and you are not functioning the way you were before the event.

If a doc on a house call can diagnose a heart attack and provide a monitoring device without Oliver having to go to the hospital, then I can believe Ben's recovery from death.  (He must be related to Jack Bauer.)

The Fosse tribute was delightful.  Selena looked adorable.

[shapeshifter]

7 minutes ago, Haleth said:

If a doc on a house call can diagnose a heart attack and provide a monitoring device without Oliver having to go to the hospital

Well, it *is* upscale Manhattan.🙃

[Milburn Stone]

On 8/8/2023 at 6:26 PM, shapeshifter said:

If they'd used an AI singer for the scene that inspired young Loretta in 1962, it just wouldn't have been, you know, inspiring. 

I loved that they used the actual original cast recording, with Diahann Carroll, and had the actress lip-sync to it. Someone on this show actually knows their musical theatre.

[MrsCastle]

On 8/8/2023 at 9:42 PM, secnarf said:

 

There is no way, absolutely no way, that Ben was technically dead for a full hour and bounced back like nothing happened. They weren't even doing CPR on him - he had been "pronounced" at the scene. That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard, and we better find out that he - and those within his circle - conspired to fake his death on stage for the sake of the documentary. I have seen people brought back after prolonged asystole - even with constant CPR, your brain is not going to be the same. You are not leaving the hospital hours later, and you are not functioning the way you were before the event.

 

And for that matter you don't stay at home after a "mild heart attack"  There is no medical consultant on this show for sure, but I still like it.  

Disbelief suspended.

[kay1864]

3 hours ago, Haleth said:

The Fosse tribute was delightful.  Selena looked adorable

Can we do a version of this sequence every week? 😍

[peeayebee]

This is definitely the kind of show where a suspension of disbelief is required. I don't mean that in a critical way, just that OMITB is not meant to be realistic. We all have our lines of belief that we will not cross.

[paigow]

House would fix Oliver and solve the crime in an hour... Everybody lies

[kay1864]

So on the penthouse floor, the elevator doors are open, with just yellow tape to keep you from plummeting down the shaft?

[secnarf]

14 hours ago, Haleth said:

If a doc on a house call can diagnose a heart attack and provide a monitoring device without Oliver having to go to the hospital, then I can believe Ben's recovery from death.  (He must be related to Jack Bauer.)

He had the heart attack at the theatre and then the scene with the doctor was at the Arconia...I can pretend in the elapsed period of time, Oliver was at the hospital. This is much easier for me to suspend disbelief about than Ben coming back to life after an hour, as if nothing happened.

Although - we may get a good explanation for Ben's not-death. It's unlikely we will hear more about how Oliver got medical treatment following his heart attack ;)

[shapeshifter]

The writers could be using all these over to top health situations to camouflage a real clue.🧐 🕵️‍♀️ 

[MisterGlass]

The production design had a lot of fun with the movie posters and mementos.  They come up with wonderful fake names.  I still smile every time I see Oliver's "Newark, Newark" poster.  And well done to whoever decided Paul Rudd needed frosted tips in Girl Cop.  Another good piece of procedural TV parody, maybe a little inspired by Veronica Mars.

I wonder if the critic will be back.  She so wanted to share her most vitriolic writing with the world, though perhaps she'll enjoy the musical version more.

I hope we have a sighting of Winnie and Mrs. Gambolini this season.

[paigow]

4 hours ago, kay1864 said:

So on the penthouse floor, the elevator doors are open, with just yellow tape to keep you from plummeting down the shaft?

Arconia is managed by Tarkin Corp. Notorious for OSHA violations.